Hamilton: Maybe it's because I'm black

[Mark]

Worth a thread of it's own this.

[Dave B]

Possibly. For anyone who didn't see it, he was asked by the BBC's Lee McKenzie about the trip to the stewards. He replied with something along the lines of "I've been up in the stewards' office 5 times in 6 races. It's a frickin' joke. I don't know why... maybe it's because I'm black, isn't that what Ali G used to say?"

If it was a joke it was a poor one, and he seemed determine to blame anybody else but himself.

[wedge]

A bad day/weekend at the office.

Out of fustration it's not the first time we've seen him not pulling the party line.

In Canada I guarantee there will be a BBC interview saying how fustrating the Monaco GP was, the incidents will make him grow stronger, yadda yadda yadda...

[steveaki13]

He also claimed Massa blocked him in Qualifying and still he got a penalty (He obviously forgot he cut the chicane), then Massa and Hulkenberg both turned in early to stop him passing and he gets penalties.

[Zico]

I think it was a joke but yep, blaming Massa for turning into him when its more than obvious to the rest of the world that he's the one to blame. He needs to start taking responsibility for his own actions.

[BDunnell]

A bad day/weekend at the office.

Out of fustration it's not the first time we've seen him not pulling the party line.

One is tempted to suggest that keeping a young driver on such a tight PR leash is bound to be counterproductive, because they are more likely to not really know how to behave in the more unguarded moments.

[wedge]

One is tempted to suggest that keeping a young driver on such a tight PR leash is bound to be counterproductive, because they are more likely to not really know how to behave in the more unguarded moments.

It was coming.

Incidents and feeling the whole world was against you. Senna and Schumi have tasted the same medicine.

[ioan]

He's a frustrated joke of a driver. :down:

[AndyL]

One is tempted to suggest that keeping a young driver on such a tight PR leash is bound to be counterproductive, because they are more likely to not really know how to behave in the more unguarded moments.

A fair point. Lewis is a product of his background. But nevertheless I think he should be mature enough by now not to take such a petulant attitude every time things don't go his way.

[ioan]

It was coming.

Incidents and feeling the whole world was against you. Senna and Schumi have tasted the same medicine.

Never seen MS making a mountain out of a mole hill though. Difference between men and teenagers.
Looks like Hamy chose to play it the Senna moaning way.

[BDunnell]

Never seen MS making a mountain out of a mole hill though.

Never heard him say anything remotely interesting either. I am not condoning what Hamilton said — it was clearly ill-judged — but let's not place Schumacher on a pedestal as regards his character, please.

[ioan]

Never heard him say anything remotely interesting either. I am not condoning what Hamilton said — it was clearly ill-judged — but let's not place Schumacher on a pedestal as regards his character, please.

Just because you don't like him?! :rotflmao:

MS has been a professional in and out of the car. Hamilton in neither case.

[wedge]

Never seen MS making a mountain out of a mole hill though. Difference between men and teenagers.
Looks like Hamy chose to play it the Senna moaning way.

True but there were odd moments with Schumi - didn't particularly like the Brits at one stage - the media gave him some hard time, didn't like DC moaning about his driving standards like chopping at the start, and blanked Brundle for a few years.

[Dave B]

Come on ioan. Lewis was a donkey in the race and a buffoon in front of the microphone, but you can't seriously expect us to suddenly accept that Michael too hasn't had his share of stupid on- and off-track moments.

Hamilton acting like a tit doesn't miraculously make Schumacher a saint.

[wedge]

Just because you don't like him?! :rotflmao:

MS has been a professional in and out of the car. Hamilton in neither case.

In 2006 some drivers thought Schumi should've been more accountable about his so called driving conduct. Trulli was one of those who was unhappy and thought Schumi should have been accountable.

[ioan]

Come on ioan. Lewis was a donkey in the race and a buffoon in front of the microphone, but you can't seriously expect us to suddenly accept that Michael too hasn't had his share of stupid on- and off-track moments.

Hamilton acting like a tit doesn't miraculously make Schumacher a saint.

Stupid MS off track moments? Tell us more unless you read it in some rag, then I am not sure it's worth it.

[ioan]

In 2006 some drivers thought Schumi should've been more accountable about his so called driving conduct. Trulli was one of those who was unhappy and thought Schumi should have been accountable.

Did Trulli also bring his photos with?

[Dave B]

Stupid MS off track moments? Tell us more unless you read it in some rag, then I am not sure it's worth it.

First one which leaps to mind is him storming down the Spa pitlane to "f---ing kill" Coulthard.

[wedge]

Stupid MS off track moments? Tell us more unless you read it in some rag, then I am not sure it's worth it.

After losing the WDC in 1997, Schumi thought he did nothing wrong by crashing into Villeneuve.

[ioan]

After losing the WDC in 1997, Schumi thought he did nothing wrong by crashing into Villeneuve.

And went on to say they punished him because of his race or nationality?!
Let's be fair and point it out that he even publicly acknowledged that it was his mistake.

[Dave B]

Anyway, we're de-railing the thread with all this talk of MSC.

[BDunnell]

Just because you don't like him?! :rotflmao:

ioan, I do not dislike any driver, as you well know. The slightest expression of criticism does not imply some visceral hatred.

Leaving aside anything he may have done on track, Schumacher to me is simply a dull individual, whether talking in his own language or English. If 'professional' equals 'never saying anything remotely interesting', then yes, he is professional. But so was Mario Andretti highly professional, yet he always managed to display a charisma and articulacy sadly lacking in the vast majority of today's drivers.

[ioan]

But hey, why are we talking (ok bashing) about MS in a Hamilton thread? Can't you guys see that this teenager will never grow up?

Who lied to the stewards to get Trulli's place in Australia 2009?
Who lied again about it in Malaysia 2009?
Who lied again and threw his sporting manager under the bus?!

Surely not MS.

If you want to come up with another liar worth it's money then check Singapore 2008.

[BDunnell]

And went on to say they punished him because of his race or nationality?!

One thing I would say for him is that he would have had the right to be offended by the xenophobic nature of the criticism meted out by certain sections of the British tabloid press, yet never let it show. That was professional.

[ioan]

ioan, I do not dislike any driver, as you well know. The slightest expression of criticism does not imply some visceral hatred.

i didn't say you dislike or hate him, just that you 'don't like him', those exacts words.

[Dave B]

But hey, why are we talking (ok bashing) about MS in a Hamilton thread? Can't you guys see that this teenager will never grow up?

Who lied to the stewards to get Trulli's place in Australia 2009?
Who lied again about it in Malaysia 2009?
Who lied again and threw his sporting manager under the bus?!

Surely not MS.

If you want to come up with another liar worth it's money then check Singapore 2008.

I genuinely can't understand your logic. You appear to be saying that Schumacher is perfect simply because others have also erred.

[BDunnell]

i didn't say you dislike or hate him, just that you 'don't like him', those exacts words.

'Dislike' means 'don't like', ioan. There is no difference between the two terms.

[ioan]

One thing I would say for him is that he would have had the right to be offended by the xenophobic nature of the criticism meted out by certain sections of the British tabloid press, yet never let it show. That was professional.

Just what I was talking about. he never complained about the huge amounts of undeserved criticism he's got and still getting from her Majesty's loyal servants.
Hamilton even complains about well deserved penalties and turns it into a racist affair.

Spot the difference.

The again, why are we talking about MS in this thread at all?!

[ioan]

'Dislike' means 'don't like', ioan. There is no difference between the two terms.

Some people are also neutre, at least in my world.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Was a joke? He laughed when he said it.

[ioan]

I genuinely can't understand your logic. You appear to be saying that Schumacher is perfect simply because others have also erred.

No one is perfect. The question is why are we talking MS in this thread?

Answer: because Brits think they can excuse their golden boy by throwing mud to someone else.

Oh well, talk about logic.

[Daniel]

Can we get back to slagging off Hamiltard?

[BDunnell]

The again, why are we talking about MS in this thread at all?!

You were the second person to mention him in the thread!

[BDunnell]

Some people are also neutre, at least in my world.

I'm afraid I have no idea what that point means.

[BDunnell]

Can we get back to slagging off Hamiltard?

Oh, excellent. A new super-intelligent nickname for a driver — truly one of my favourite things on this or any forum.

[Daniel]

Oh, excellent. A new super-intelligent nickname for a driver — truly one of my favourite things on this or any forum.

Oh come on. He deserves it after today. On a good day he's great, on a bad day like today he doesn't deserve to be in F1.

[Anubis]

No one is perfect. The question is why are we talking MS in this thread?

Answer: because Brits think they can excuse their golden boy by throwing mud to someone else.

Oh well, talk about logic.

You're moaning about mud slinging and then making a xenophobic comment like that? Nice. For the record, I'm a Brit and I think Hamilton is being a whining, petulant tit. He drove like an idiot today, blamed everyone else but himself and then threw his toys out of the pram when he got called on it. If anyone has a reason to be upset, it's Button, as he did nothing wrong yet saw events conspire against him, yet I haven't heard him spitting his dummy out.

[ioan]

You were the second person to mention him in the thread!

But not the first who started bashing him. So again, why was MS brought into this thread?

[ioan]

You're moaning about mud slinging and then making a xenophobic comment like that? Nice. For the record, I'm a Brit and I think Hamilton is being a whining, petulant tit. He drove like an idiot today, blamed everyone else but himself and then threw his toys out of the pram when he got called on it. If anyone has a reason to be upset, it's Button, as he did nothing wrong yet saw events conspire against him, yet I haven't heard him spitting his dummy out.

Xenophobic comment? Check the nationalities of those slagging off MS and come back to have a honest discussion after that.

[Daniel]

You're moaning about mud slinging and then making a xenophobic comment like that? Nice. For the record, I'm a Brit and I think Hamilton is being a whining, petulant tit. He drove like an idiot today, blamed everyone else but himself and then threw his toys out of the pram when he got called on it. If anyone has a reason to be upset, it's Button, as he did nothing wrong yet saw events conspire against him, yet I haven't heard him spitting his dummy out.

It's not xenophobic, it's an observation, most Brits do support Hamilton regardless of what he does

[BDunnell]

But not the first who started bashing him. So again, why was MS brought into this thread?

As far as I'm aware, it's not against the law to mention other drivers in a thread started about one of them in particular. And there is a relevant point to be made about the way drivers behave in front of the camera or microphone, which — with a few notable and welcome exceptions — I for one generally find either lacking genuine passion, petulant, inarticulate or just plain dull.

[BDunnell]

It's not xenophobic, it's an observation, most Brits do support Hamilton regardless of what he does

Don't tar all of us with the same sweeping brush, thank you very much. I'd expect that kind of remark from certain others, but not you.

[ioan]

It's not xenophobic, it's an observation, most Brits do support Hamilton regardless of what he does

Thanks for explaining it.

[Anubis]

Xenophobic comment? Check the nationalities of those slagging off MS and come back to have a honest discussion after that.

Two wrongs don't make a right my friend. You can't moan about it on one hand then make a disparaging comment like that on the other. There are plenty of Brits who can't stand Hamilton and his attitude, I can assure you. You're talking to one of them. If you want an honest discussion, don't make such a sweeping generalisation, as it undermines any other points you may be wanting to express.

[ioan]

Two wrongs don't make a right my friend. You can't moan about it on one hand then make a disparaging comment like that on the other. There are plenty of Brits who can't stand Hamilton and his attitude, I can assure you. You're talking to one of them. If you want an honest discussion, don't make such a sweeping generalisation, as it undermines any other points you may be wanting to express.

There are no two wrongs, unless you mean your comment was wrong, which I agree and I also agree it doesn't make it right.

[Anubis]

It's not xenophobic, it's an observation, most Brits do support Hamilton regardless of what he does

The tabloids might, but my experience on other forums doesn't support that notion at all. A lot of fans think he's behaving like a spoilt brat and find it all rather cringe worthy.

[BDunnell]

There are no two wrongs, unless you mean your comment was wrong, which I agree and I also agree it doesn't make it right.

With sentences such as that, you appear to have turned into Ron Dennis!

[Dave B]

It's not xenophobic, it's an observation, most Brits do support Hamilton regardless of what he does

Possibly true. Equally I've been to races where some sections of the crowd made monkey noises or shouted racial abuse when Hamilton or his dad went past or appeared on the big screens. Maybe underneath Lewis' ill-advised comments there is some recognition that he's sometimes a victim of racism - from the stewards, but enough to bother him.

[ioan]

With sentences such as that, you appear to have turned into Ron Dennis!

I'll take that as a compliment! :D

[Azumanga Davo]

"5 times in 6 races"

Strewth, that's far too many times. He should have another look at that figure and then come to the correct conclusion properly. What a tit.

[ioan]

True. Equally I've been to races where some sections of the crowd made monkey noises or shouted racial abuse when Hamilton or his dad went past or appeared on the big screens. Maybe underneath Lewis' ill-advised comments there is some recognition that he's sometimes a victim of racism - from the stewards, but enough to bother him.

Even then he should not make such an ill judged comment. He is too impulsive on top of being careless.

[Anubis]

There are no two wrongs, unless you mean your comment was wrong, which I agree and I also agree it doesn't make it right.

Is there any real point having this discussion? You can't moan about people making attacks based on nationality, then make one yourself to try and defend your position.

[ioan]

Is there any real point having this discussion? You can't moan about people making attacks based on nationality, then make one yourself to try and defend your position.

No it is not worth, because I didn't attack anyone based on nationality. As Daniel pointed it out it was an observation not an attack.

[BDunnell]

I'll take that as a compliment! :D

Really?

By the way, ioan, you do know that I actually think your command of English is outstanding for someone who's not a native speaker, even though I may disagree with some (much?) of what you say. And I don't mean that to sound patronising.

[BDunnell]

No it is not worth, because I didn't attack anyone based on nationality.

Nor do I. I hope you recognise that. There may be those whose bias towards/against particular drivers is based on nationality, but not mine — in fact, I can think of very few forum members of whom this is the case, even though you may not think so.

[ioan]

Really?

By the way, ioan, you do know that I actually think your command of English is outstanding for someone who's not a native speaker, even though I may disagree with some (much?) of what you say. And I don't mean that to sound patronising.

You know, I was just trying to put an end to this dispute, a funny end much better then one in 'tears'.

And again thanks for the compliments.

[ioan]

Nor do I. I hope you recognise that.

I don't recognize it, I know it. :)

[Anubis]

No it is not worth, because I didn't attack anyone based on nationality. As Daniel pointed it out it was an observation not an attack.

You said "because Brits think they can excuse their golden boy by throwing mud to someone else."

That's an attack based on nationality.

[Dave B]

Link to the interview, so that anybody who hasn't seen it can judge for themselves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RteXh2Z_aps

[Dave B]

Just for completeness, a 20 second penalty for Hamilton, which doesn't change his finishing position.

[janneppi]

You got to be kidding me, three pages of that comment? If you interview someone who is rather annoyd, there is a high possibility to make a stupid comment, it was a funny one though, he almost nailed the bitter moaning I make when things don't go my way. :D

[tfp]

Stupid comments from Hamilton, I am usually a supporter of the two Mclarens, but as a professional racing driver with everyone watching you, race/nationality/whatever should never be brought into it.

[yodasarmpit]

He's a great driver, but acts like a petulant little child when things go wrong.

Nice to see things don't change, playing the blame game - it's what he does best.

[Daniel]

Possibly true. Equally I've been to races where some sections of the crowd made monkey noises or shouted racial abuse when Hamilton or his dad went past or appeared on the big screens. Maybe underneath Lewis' ill-advised comments there is some recognition that he's sometimes a victim of racism - from the stewards, but enough to bother him.

Sure. I'm sure there are some people who are just too thick not to be racist towards him....

[Daniel]

Don't tar all of us with the same sweeping brush, thank you very much. I'd expect that kind of remark from certain others, but not you.

I said most brits.

[Daniel]

Link to the interview, so that anybody who hasn't seen it can judge for themselves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RteXh2Z_aps

What a penis.

[Bagwan]

He's lying again !

He's brown .

And , I'm kind of a pinkish tone .
That's the truth .


Lewis is a driver who has a stupid mouth that he can't control . A little locktite wouldn't hurt at times .

[Zico]

Sure. I'm sure there are some people who are just too thick not to be racist towards him....

Are you serious or trying to be funny? (No smiley) Can you please explain what you mean?

[Bagwan]

What a penis.

What colour penis ?

[Daniel]

Are you serious or trying to be funny? (No smiley) Can you please explain what you mean?

I'm saying that there are stupid people everywhere who will take issue with the colour of some people's skin :)

[Daniel]

What colour penis ?

Ask Nicole.

[ioan]

Are you serious or trying to be funny? (No smiley) Can you please explain what you mean?

Funny or serious, he's right.

[ioan]

Ask Nicole.

:rotflmao: She might not know depending on the ambiance and level of luminosity.

[P3ws]

Drivers are always very emotional directly after incidents. But i don´t mind that.
What i do find strange is the fact that LH got a penalty twice this race. And correct me if im wrong, for causing a collision both times.
Im not taking a stand whether or not it was right to punish him at all but....
When a driver according to judged causes two incidents in the same race, would it not be more correct to give a more harsh penalty the second time?
I mean, obviously the driver did not get the message the first time. Instead the second time he got a tap on his shoulder, sort of speak.

[Robinho]

i'm not so bothered by what he said, more how he drove and the way he's acting as if the world is out to get him. he was unlucky this weekend to start where he did, but he drove all race like he deserved to get it all back and without regard for actual race craft

[Bagwan]

Could be yellow , afraid to take responsibility all day long .
Could be red , like his face later when he realizes what he just said .
Could be green , with envy over the post race interviewees , who get chairs .
Could be rainbow , with those earrings .

[MJW]

Personally I think Hamilton should be punished for disrespecting the FIA and stewards. Hamilton is a spoilt little boy, Jensen represents McLaren, Vodafone and all the sponsors in a more mature and professional way.

[Bagwan]

Personally I think Hamilton should be punished for disrespecting the FIA and stewards. Hamilton is a spoilt little boy, Jensen represents McLaren, Vodafone and all the sponsors in a more mature and professional way.

I agree .

[Daniel]

Personally I think Hamilton should be punished for disrespecting the FIA and stewards. Hamilton is a spoilt little boy, Jensen represents McLaren, Vodafone and all the sponsors in a more mature and professional way.

Definitely. Whilst Jenson is always blaming something else (usually the car or tyres) at least when he's hit someone (rare) at least he owns up to it. **** happens, it's the way that you deal with it when it's your fault that defines you as a person.

[ioan]

Personally I think Hamilton should be punished for disrespecting the FIA and stewards. Hamilton is a spoilt little boy, Jensen represents McLaren, Vodafone and all the sponsors in a more mature and professional way.

Jenson is a grown up men. Lewis is a larger kid. That says it all.

And I sure agree, he should get a ban for reckless driving and bringing the sport into disrepute with his stupid racist comments about the FIA stewards.

[donKey jote]

sheesh that was a whinge of almost alonsoesque proportions :p
:dozey:

[Bagwan]

Jenson is a grown up men. Lewis is a larger kid. That says it all.

Jensen given up the title "boy band" to his team-mate ?

[go mads]

yes he makes mistakes on track,yes he says what he thinks but all the knockers on here need to realise this guy loves racing and adds show much to f1. it would be poorer without him.i find it great that a driver expresses himself in this way.would we all want too watch a race where nobody takes a chance to better their position, anybody can sit tight and hope for the the best[webber button alonso].some of the posters on here need to give their head a wobble!

[Daniel]

sheesh that was a whinge of almost alonsoesque proportions :p
:dozey:

You could tell it wasn't Alonso though because he'd have got away with it. FIArrari and all that sort of stuff :p

[Daniel]

yes he makes mistakes on track,yes he says what he thinks but all the knockers on here need to realise this guy loves racing and adds show much to f1. it would be poorer without him.i find it great that a driver expresses himself in this way.would we all want too watch a race where nobody takes a chance to better their position, anybody can sit tight and hope for the the best[webber button alonso].some of the posters on here need to give their head a wobble!

It's great when this happens once or twice. But this is Hamilton to the core and I've been saying it for the last 4 years or so.

[Zico]

I'm saying that there are stupid people everywhere who will take issue with the colour of some people's skin :)

I'd choose my words a bit more carefully.. ;)

[ioan]

yes he makes mistakes on track,yes he says what he thinks but all the knockers on here need to realise this guy loves racing ...

Destruction derby is a good place for him based on today's race.

[MrMetro]

Destruction derby is a good place for him based on today's race.

Or the BTCC :p :

[ioan]

Or the BTCC :p :

They might refuse him! ;)

[The Black Knight]

Jenson is a grown up men. Lewis is a larger kid. That says it all.

And I sure agree, he should get a ban for reckless driving and bringing the sport into disrepute with his stupid racist comments about the FIA stewards.
Having just watched the hairpin incident with Massa and Hamilton again, Hamilton was too far back to attempt the maneouvre on Massa, Massa turned on on Hamilton early then knowing there was no way Hamilton could have stopped his car and in turn he cut across the line so much he hit Webbers car. They both made mistakes in that maneouvre. I'd put most of the blame on Hamilton because he started it in the first place but Felipe could have given him more room.
Regarding the tunnel incident, I don't know how Hamilton got alongside Massa but clearly he was pushed out onto the marbles. A bit of payback for qualifying I say - Hamilton clearly felt aggrieved at that.
As for the Maldonado incident, you can also cleary see that Maldonado turned in too early to block Hamilton. Hamilton was entitled to attempt the move, he was alongside him, if Maldonado wanted to defend his position then the only way to avoid an incident once once Hamilton had committed was to take the racing line, he didn't.

yes he makes mistakes on track,yes he says what he thinks but all the knockers on here need to realise this guy loves racing and adds show much to f1. it would be poorer without him.i find it great that a driver expresses himself in this way.would we all want too watch a race where nobody takes a chance to better their position, anybody can sit tight and hope for the the best[webber button alonso].some of the posters on here need to give their head a wobble!
I agree with you. Until Hamilton arrived on the scene I had gotten very bored with F1. He adds that element of passion for racing that was missing for F1 for a few years. He is the best driver out there. Clearly he was frustrated but I'd rather a driver express himself and his emotions rather than be a brick wall and just take everything on the chin.
I don't believe he should have received a penalty for the Maldonado incident and he did. I think this is fairly obvious for anyone watching it. It is almost a mirror image of him and Schumacher at the start of the race and Schumacher saw him and let him through, Maldonado with less experience saw him and tried to take the front of his McLaren off.

[Daniel]

I agree with you. Until Hamilton arrived on the scene I had gotten very bored with F1. He adds that element of passion for racing that was missing for F1 for a few years. He is the best driver out there. Clearly he was frustrated but I'd rather a driver express himself and his emotions rather than be a brick wall and just take everything on the chin.
I don't believe he should have received a penalty for the Maldonado incident and he did. I think this is fairly obvious for anyone watching it. It is almost a mirror image of him and Schumacher at the start of the race and Schumacher saw him and let him through, Maldonado with less experience saw him and tried to take the front of his McLaren off.

You get bored when the series is full of people who don't have a persecution complex?

[gloomyDAY]

Love it! Finally, a F1 driver that speaks his mind.


Out of six races, I've been to the stewards five times. It's a joke! Maybe it's because I'm black. That's what Ali G says. I don't know. - Lewis Hamilton

Do I agree with him? To a certain extent I do, especially at the beginning of his career when it was such a shock that a black man could tango with the best in the world. As of today, I think he said it out of frustration (tongue-in-cheek comment), but I'm glad that someone finally had the balls to give the FIA a middle finger.

[odykas]

Lewis did a Jerez :dozey:

Poor Maldonado :s

[The Black Knight]

You get bored when the series is full of people who don't have a persecution complex?

The man has passion for racing. I love that. Senna had the same passion for racing and also spoke his mind. Some people can call that moany and whingey if they want. I see it as someone that absolutely loves racing what he does. His passion for racing is what I like about him.

As for his persecution complex, maybe he is being targeted. After all, there have been some very dodgy penalties against him in his career to date. Spa 2008 springs to mind.

[odykas]

McLaren are already working on upgraded for Lewis's next race:

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00HveanVEjvtUR/Road-Roller-22-TON-CLG622-.jpg

[The Black Knight]

McLaren are already working on upgraded for Lewis's next race:

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00HveanVEjvtUR/Road-Roller-22-TON-CLG622-.jpg


:D haha

[gloomyDAY]

The man has passion for racing. I love that. Senna had the same passion for racing and also spoke his mind. Some people can call that moany and whingey if they want. I see it as someone that absolutely loves racing what he does. His passion for racing is what I like about him.

As for his persecution complex, maybe he is being targeted. After all, there have been some very dodgy penalties against him in his career to date. Spa 2008 springs to mind.****ing right! Hamilton has been given very unfair penalties in his career.

Lewis is an aggressive racer. I loved how he raced today.

[Daniel]

The man has passion for racing. I love that. Senna had the same passion for racing and also spoke his mind. Some people can call that moany and whingey if they want. I see it as someone that absolutely loves racing what he does. His passion for racing is what I like about him.

As for his persecution complex, maybe he is being targeted. After all, there have been some very dodgy penalties against him in his career to date. Spa 2008 springs to mind.

Senna is the sort of idiot who could have conceivably been responsible for someone elses death....

[gloomyDAY]

Senna is the sort of idiot who could have conceivably been responsible for someone elses death.... :rolleyes:

I don't even know where to start with that statement.

[Daniel]

:rolleyes:

I don't even know where to start with that statement.
The guy happily crashed into others on purpose.

[The Black Knight]

Senna is the sort of idiot who could have conceivably been responsible for someone elses death....

I agree. I am not a huge Senna fan but I admired his passion. He was an idiot in a lot of ways but I don't believe Hamilton would ever premeditatedly take another driver off and put their lives at risk like Senna did to Prost in Japan 1990.

[The Black Knight]

Hamilton has made peace with the stewards:

http://www.planet-f1.com/driver/3213/6958735/Hamilton-clears-the-air-with-stewards

[markabilly]

But hey, why are we talking (ok bashing) about MS in a Hamilton thread? Can't you guys see that this teenager will never grow up?

Who lied to the stewards to get Trulli's place in Australia 2009?
Who lied again about it in Malaysia 2009?
Who lied again and threw his sporting manager under the bus?!

Surely not MS.

If you want to come up with another liar worth it's money then check Singapore 2008.



Well, I looked and I can not find any penalty in the books for just lying except to the stewards, maybe, as in bringing the sport into disrepute.

But you can add he called the stewards "a joke", EXCEPT I have to agree on that point: A 20 second penalty?? Causing no loss of position!!!!!!!

now that was a sad JOKE, why bother......(but he has now gone back and made peace with them, personally I think the real reason he went back was to kissed their buttocks for giving him only 20 seconds.....if there is to be a penalty, then there should be a real penalty that hurts..)

Anyway was that Hamilton getting all squirelly and causing the wreck that stopped the race???

[gloomyDAY]

The guy happily crashed into others on purpose.I don't think Ayrton's intention was to murder anyone. Senna wanted to win, but I don't see how that's anyway comparable to Hamilton.

Hamilton took fair chances at Monaco today and came out with a 6th place after being screwed in qualifying.

[Daniel]

I agree. I am not a huge Senna fan but I admired his passion. He was an idiot in a lot of ways but I don't believe Hamilton would ever premeditatedly take another driver off and put their lives at risk like Senna did to Prost in Japan 1990.

I also don't think Hamilton would take someone off on purpose. I think he genuinely believes that all the contact he had was the other guys fault. In itself that's a problem, but I can live with that.

[Daniel]

I don't think Ayrton's intention was to murder anyone. Senna wanted to win, but I don't see how that's anyway comparable to Hamilton.

Hamilton took fair chances at Monaco today and came out with a 6th place after being screwed in qualifying.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. To take someone out on purpose is simply not acceptable.

[The Black Knight]

I don't think Ayrton's intention was to murder anyone. Senna wanted to win, but I don't see how that's anyway comparable to Hamilton.

Hamilton took fair chances at Monaco today and came out with a 6th place after being screwed in qualifying.

Clearly he had no intent on murdering someone but he had no qualms with putting himself into a position that might cost another driver his life as long as it meant he won either.

[The Black Knight]

I also don't think Hamilton would take someone off on purpose. I think he genuinely believes that all the contact he had was the other guys fault. In itself that's a problem, but I can live with that.

Well, the Maldonado incident was not his fault. That is clear to be seen.

Massa's was his fault but, as I said already, Felipe wasn't exactly innocent in it either.

[Sonic]

It was a stupid comment, but then I am so used to Hamilton's childish behaviour to be particularly surprised by his current temper tantrum.

I respect his talent behind the wheel but I will never respect the man.

[driveace]

I agree with Hamilton,he has had some harsh penalty's in his career that others would have got away with.Its called motor RACING for gods sake!!
We want to see motors RACING,not a procession of cars for nearly 2 hours where the race is won or lost in the pits.If we wanted to see who is the quickest in the pits ,we could watch "Pit stop challenge",for our entertainment.Lewis is a racer,he make,s F1 interesting,which I believe is what the majority want,The drivers who hold him up to help their fellow country man,and some german drivers come into that category,are content to "follow my leader", until they see Lewis in their mirrors.
I know Lewis should consider his team and sponsors,when making his comments,but I would be as frustrated and as verbal myself too !

[ioan]

... but I'm glad that someone finally had the balls to give the FIA a middle finger.

Just wait until the FIA gives him a ban because of his racist claims.

[markabilly]

Well, the Maldonado incident was not his fault. That is clear to be seen.

Massa's was his fault but, as I said already, Felipe wasn't exactly innocent in it either.

Yeah, I agree, if that was all there was to it...... but after all the other bumping, and I still wonder about how everyone got so wrecked out on the accident that stopped the race, well the microscope starts to focus on that driver more than others.............

[ioan]

Well, the Maldonado incident was not his fault. That is clear to be seen.

Massa's was his fault but, as I said already, Felipe wasn't exactly innocent in it either.

As I said, everyone but Lewis is at fault.

[gloomyDAY]

Just wait until the FIA gives him a ban because of his racist claims.Waiting...

[markabilly]

Just wait until the FIA gives him a ban because of his racist claims.

Will not happen, he said he was sorry, besides he is not to blame, he only said it because the chief engineer told him to say it...................

[markabilly]

or they might get nasty and add another 5 seconds to his penalty to show him who the real boss is........................that would mean the driver behind came within a total of 25 seconds closer to not passing him for position

[gloomyDAY]

Will not happen, he said he was sorry, besides he is not to blame, he only said it because the chief engineer told him to say it...................Whatever. You've hated Lewis Hamilton since he made his way into F1 in 2007 and was able to match Alonso at McLaren.

[ioan]

Will not happen, he said he was sorry, besides he is not to blame, he only said it because the chief engineer told him to say it...................

:rotflmao: :up:

[markabilly]

Whatever. You've hated Lewis Hamilton since he made his way into F1 in 2007 and was able to match Alonso at McLaren.

Unlike some, I ain't a fanboy, but I don't hate nobody either, dude

[ioan]

Whatever. You've hated Lewis Hamilton since he made his way into F1 in 2007 and was able to match Alonso at McLaren.

You're getting to much into Hamilton mode there! :D

[The Black Knight]

Whatever. You've hated Lewis Hamilton since he made his way into F1 in 2007 and was able to match Alonso at McLaren.

This is the case with a lot of people. They couldn't fathom why their Golden boy Alonso was being embarrassed on track by a rooke. I take no more notice of it really.

[gloomyDAY]

Unlike some, I ain't a fanboy, but I don't hate nobody either, dudeYou're always critical of the kid. When he does well, you take a leak on his achievements, and when he does poorly you tear him from limb to limb. Just my opinion from the posts you've made over the years.


You're getting to much into Hamilton mode there! :D Nah! :)

[SGWilko]

Interesting thread

What amazes me is that the Shoe shoves his car down the inside at the Leowes hairpin, and on the two occasions he did this, the two guys he is passing have the intelligence to avoid contact; Hamilton & Rosberg.

Lewis puts a move on the Shoe at the first corner, and the Shoe has the intelligence not to turn in...

Massa is under pressure as we all know, so turned in and accelerated - to the extent that he drove into Webber!!! Mind you, Massa went on to do the tunnel a la Alonso/Ralf....

Then, Maldonado, who up to this point was having a great race - Hamilton puts the exact same move on him that he did with the Shoe - only this time Maldonado turns in on Hamilton, who has to take to the kurb to avoid ending his race.

In the two examples involving Hamilton, a penalty is given.

Now, with Massa exiting the pits in Q3, Lewis was starting a hot lap, he got held up by Massa until Casino. Now, cast your minds back to Alonso in the Renault at Monza qualifying? This time Massa was much closer to the car behind and clearly held him up....

It is very easy to understand Lewis's frustration. He was driving very aggressively, and made some great passes. He definately makes F1 entertaining.

It is also interesting the comparisons some on here have drawn to Senna - if I were Lewis, I'd take that as a compliment.

[The Black Knight]

Interesting thread

What amazes me is that the Shoe shoves his car down the inside at the Leowes hairpin, and on the two occasions he did this, the two guys he is passing have the intelligence to avoid contact; Hamilton & Rosberg.

Lewis puts a move on the Shoe at the first corner, and the Shoe has the intelligence not to turn in...

Massa is under pressure as we all know, so turned in and accelerated - to the extent that he drove into Webber!!!

Then, Maldonado, who up to this point was having a great race - Hamilton puts the exact same move on him that he did with the Shoe - only this time Maldonado turns in on Hamilton, who has to take to the kurb to avoid ending his race.

In the two examples involving Hamilton, a penalty is given.

Now, with Massa exiting the pits in Q3, Lewis was starting a hot lap, he got held up by Massa until Casino. Now, cast your minds back to Alonso in the Renault at Monza qualifying? This time Massa was much closer to the car behind and clearly held him up.... Mind you, Massa went on to do the tunnel a la Alonso/Ralf....

It is very easy to understand Lewis's frustration. He was driving very aggressively, and made some great passes. He definately makes F1 entertaining.

It is also interesting the comparisons some on here have drawn to Senna - if I were Lewis, I'd take that as a compliment.

Great post. That's exactly how I see it.

[ioan]

Schumacher made clean overtaking moves while Hamilton was overoptimistic and grossly misjudged both the Massa and Maldonado overtakes, and he got lucky with MS remembering the Petrov misfortune so he decided to leave more space and try to salvage his own race.

Or why do you think that Lewis got 2 penalties from the stewards, because of his skin color?

As for Q3 what was Massa supposed to do? Evaporate?! This is Monaco and **** happens and Lewis has managed to bury himself in it up to his nose.

[SGWilko]

I still wonder about how everyone got so wrecked out on the accident that stopped the race

The Torro Rosso driver was not paying attention to the two cars in front - one of which only had three intact wheels and had the potential to veer onto the racing line due to lack of control from said lack of right rear.....

....but don't let that cloud your opinion.

[SGWilko]

As for Q3 what was Massa supposed to do? Evaporate?! This is Monaco and **** happens and Lewis has managed to bury himself in it up to his nose.

If his team were up to the task and paying attention, theyd've informed Massa who could easily of held back on the pit exit to allow the McLaren to go by on the racing line....

Skin colour should not be a factor ioan, sadly, reality throughout all walks of life tells a very different story.

[Robinho]

look at this way - MS hit Hamilton at the start, then put a cheeky pass on him, only to get repassed later and then whilst tooling round well down his car died. no points.
Hamilton ran into Massa whilst he was running into Webber, they carried on for another corner or 2 and Massa ended up in the wall whilst Hamilton "escaped with a drive through, Massa no points.
Hamilton gets hit up the ass by Alguesari, Algie ends in the wall, prompts a saftey car and Hamilton escapes with a broken rear wing, which is fixed uner red flag conditions. Algie, no points.
Hamilton ran into an impressive Maldanado, whilst up and over the kerb, taking out bollards and leaving Pastor in the wall. gets a retrospective 20 secs penalty. Maldanado no points, Hamilton no loss of position.

End of race, Hamilton started 9th, had a drive through, a 20 second penalty, repairs during the red flag and still finished 6th. Some points. All in i think he's been very lucky to come away with anything, given the amount of incidents and penalties he managed to get involved in, to actually improve his position round Monaco, in spite of the incidents is miraculously lucky IMO

[ioan]

If his team were up to the task and paying attention, theyd've informed Massa who could easily of held back on the pit exit to allow the McLaren to go by on the racing line....

If it was any other track Massa would have been able to let him by, Monaco is not that wide. Everyone dealt with it minus Hamilton.


Skin colour should not be a factor ioan, sadly, reality throughout all walks of life tells a very different story.

C'mon this is a thing of past nothing to do with 21st century in the civilized world.

[ioan]

look at this way - MS hit Hamilton at the start, then put a cheeky pass on him, only to get repassed later and then whilst tooling round well down his car died. no points.
Hamilton ran into Massa whilst he was running into Webber, they carried on for another corner or 2 and Massa ended up in the wall whilst Hamilton "escaped with a drive through, Massa no points.
Hamilton gets hit up the ass by Alguesari, Algie ends in the wall, prompts a saftey car and Hamilton escapes with a broken rear wing, which is fixed uner red flag conditions. Algie, no points.
Hamilton ran into an impressive Maldanado, whilst up and over the kerb, taking out bollards and leaving Pastor in the wall. gets a retrospective 20 secs penalty. Maldanado no points, Hamilton no loss of position.

End of race, Hamilton started 9th, had a drive through, a 20 second penalty, repairs during the red flag and still finished 6th. Some points. All in i think he's been very lucky to come away with anything, given the amount of incidents and penalties he managed to get involved in, to actually improve his position round Monaco, in spite of the incidents is miraculously lucky IMO

Which means that Hamilton got of light, he should have been banned for careless driving. This is not destruction derby, it's F1 and you have to make a clean move when overtaking not punting others off the track.

[Robinho]

arguably he got hit twice and hit others twice, but still he was lucky to finish, let alone in the points, even before any penalties

[go mads]

if lewis had have turned in at mira beua on lap 1 would ms have took a penalty,the answer is YES.So surely all the overtakes have a lot to do with the guy thats being passed and him responding to the pass attempt.btw some of the posts on this thread are laughable; too say lewis was at fault for the red flag is a joke; why cant you guys just accept that the guy RACES in a sport called motor RACING!!!!!

[F1boat]

No, Lewis, it is because you believe that have God-given right to win and are a menace on track!

[go mads]

A driver that wants to win . Whatever next
no, lewis, it is because you believe that have god-given right to win and are a menace on track!

[F1boat]

He is a great driver, as well as a dangerous one, unfortunately. I wonder if he hurts someone, would he still be excused for being "racey"... that's a wrong attitude and you know it. F1 is not touring cars and you can't bang people.

[SGWilko]

I missed the re-start due to a family function, so am catching up now on aunty's iPlayer. The replay of Lewis slowing for Sutil was his only option. Sutil had no option (well, he could have stopped, but he was thinking about the chance to salvage something as is always the opportunity at Monaco) than to rejoin the track after the chicane and in doing so goes onto the racing line. Off-line at that point, with the camera angle on the replay, is full of marbles - so if he (Lewis) went off line at racing speed he would have been in the barrier. That was smart from him, just a shame Jaime was not looking beyond the McLaren and could have made his own judgement as to the track ahead.

[F1boat]

For me the accident with Massa was problematic...

[SGWilko]

He is a great driver, as well as a dangerous one, unfortunately. I wonder if he hurts someone, would he still be excused for being "racey"... that's a wrong attitude and you know it. F1 is not touring cars and you can't bang people.

You have heard that, by its very nature, F1 is dangerous?

What could have happened to Rubens in Hungary last year?

[ioan]

A driver that wants to win . Whatever next

His 'fans' get all worked up when others point it out how crappy he is.

[SGWilko]

For me the accident with Massa was problematic...

Which one - hairpin or tunnel?

Hairpin Massa could have given Lewis room as Lewis and Nico did when Michael made a cheeky move.

As for the tunnel, Lewis got traction and made the pass - Massa kept the boot in and crashed while out on the marbles, conveniently blaming wing damage (remember, Massa drove into Webber) due to his contretempts avec Lewis.

[ioan]

You have heard that, by its very nature, F1 is dangerous?

What could have happened to Rubens in Hungary last year?

Could have, would have, what ifs, bla bla, yada yada...

Last year in Hungary nothing happened because two professional racers did keep their nerves in a highly tense situation, what happened today is that one driver lost his nerves several times in one race.
Spot the difference?! No? I thought so.

And watch Lewis getting even hotter under the collar as Vettel continues to crush him every race, more mistakes down the road, more racist comments coming up me thinks.

[ioan]

Which one - hairpin or tunnel?

Hairpin Massa could have given Lewis room as Lewis and Nico did when Michael made a cheeky move.

As for the tunnel, Lewis got traction and made the pass - Massa kept the boot in and crashed while out on the marbles, conveniently blaming wing damage (remember, Massa drove into Webber) due to his contretempts avec Lewis.

Sure Massa should have stopped his car and ask lewsi nicely to drive by, strange definition for racing.

What about Maldonado then, he too should have given up his position to the best thing since sliced bread?

[Mia 01]

Lewis has an reputation as a great overtaker, I´m not suprised, the other drivers are very scared of him.

The off track antics is then perhaps worse.

Well, good luck to you Lewis.

[Cooper_S]

The remark was meant as a joke... and has already been accepted as such by the stewards so I expect no comeback from the FIA... however the comment will follow hime from now on.


What confuses me is this...

Black parents... you are Black... I get that. White parents... you are White... I get that also.
But One Black and one White parent... you are Black... I don't get it.

It is telling that he see's himself as Black, But then for sure being the 'first' black F1 driver has paid big money (sponsorship wise) for him and sure who can blame him for playing that angle but you have to feel sorry for the first 'real' Black man to make it into F1...

I was never a big fan of Ron Dennis but today McLaren have shown just how much has changed since his departure.

[SGWilko]

Sure Massa should have stopped his car and ask lewsi nicely to drive by, strange definition for racing.

What about Maldonado then, he too should have given up his position to the best thing since sliced bread?

In both instances you cite above, while Massa and Maldonado would have lost a position, they would, would they not, still be in the race?

Overtaking should not, and rarely is easy, but it requires that the person you are overtaking should play fair and not just turn in on the guy beside you pulling off the overtake.

[F1boat]

Last year in Hungary nothing happened because two professional racers did keep their nerves in a highly tense situation, what happened today is that one driver lost his nerves several times in one race.
Spot the difference?! No? I thought so.

And watch Lewis getting even hotter under the collar as Vettel continues to crush him every race, more mistakes down the road, more racist comments coming up me thinks.

Maybe that's the problem, but it is no excuse. And about the Hungary example, MS was penalised, so the conclusion is that a driver should not wreck other people's races and endanger their lives.

[F1boat]

Lewis has an reputation as a great overtaker, I´m not suprised, the other drivers are very scared of him.

Like they were of Montoya, a man who would simply force his way trough.

[steveaki13]

There is alot of hashing over comparisons with MS in this thread, but the real issue is that Lewis has backed himself into a corner with these statements.

He does get involved in a lot of incidents on the racetrack, a fair few of which he deserved punishment for.

The comment about his colour is an issue. It was said in the heat of the moment and he was joking outwardly, but there must be something behind it as this is a step beyond whats acceptable.

If he really feels he is picked on by the stewards then he has problems for his career.

For me the penalties for the contact were justified, he was not along side and he barged the two cars. The difference with Schumi's moves is that the opponents chose to avoid the contact, but if they hadn't then Schumi would probably have pulled out of the move and if he didn't then he would get a penalty. Thats the way it is.

You can't see one move that comes off in the hairpin and then hit 3 cars trying the same move and say that its no different.

[markabilly]

Schumacher made clean overtaking moves while Hamilton was overoptimistic and grossly misjudged both the Massa and Maldonado overtakes, and he got lucky with MS remembering the Petrov misfortune so he decided to leave more space and try to salvage his own race.

Or why do you think that Lewis got 2 penalties from the stewards, because of his skin color?

As for Q3 what was Massa supposed to do? Evaporate?! This is Monaco and **** happens and Lewis has managed to bury himself in it up to his nose.

actually i think Lewis may have damaged the front wing of Schuie at some point in the pass......I read an interview, where MS said the wing and then later the rear wing had issues...

[ioan]

In both instances you cite above, while Massa and Maldonado would have lost a position, they would, would they not, still be in the race?

Overtaking should not, and rarely is easy, but it requires that the person you are overtaking should play fair and not just turn in on the guy beside you pulling off the overtake.

Huh?!

They are there to race for position and to stay ahead of the others not to massage Hamilton's overinflated ego.

The solution to Hamilton's problems is simple, learn to overtake without banging into other cars and keep his emotion under control. This week end he has been broken again by Vettel and I can't see him making the best of the package if he continues to lose his head.

[Cooper_S]

Last year in Hungary nothing happened because two professional racers did keep their nerves in a highly tense situation,ks.

Sorry, there is no bigger fan of Michael Schumacher than me, and there is no driver I dislike more than Rubens (spit) but the ONLY reason there was no contact between them in Hungary last year is because they ran out of pit wall first... it was Schumachers most stupid move in his career because his other stupid moves at least had a WDC at stake, Hungary 2010 was for a few measly points.

Schumi I love yah but that move was soooooooooo wrong.

[ioan]

actually i think Lewis may have damaged the front wing of Schuie at some point in the pass......I read an interview, where MS said the wing and then later the rear wing had issues...

Sure he did, there were parts flying from MS front wing in the hairpin. No surprise with the elephant that went mad in the China shop today.

[markabilly]

You're always critical of the kid. When he does well, you take a leak on his achievements, and when he does poorly you tear him from limb to limb. Just my opinion from the posts you've made over the years.

Nah! :)

If there is someone always critical of a driver, you qualify along with Henners and a couple of others for being the leader on hating a driver. You know, your fav target, being Schuie....

I was almost a solo when I said Lewis should not have suffered the Spa penalty.....

[SGWilko]

actually i think Lewis may have damaged the front wing of Schuie at some point in the pass......I read an interview, where MS said the wing and then later the rear wing had issues...

Nope. The Shoe drove into Lewis at the start and damaged his own wing, and Lewis's diffuser - go watch a replay.

[ioan]

Sorry, there is no bigger fan of Michael Schumacher than me, and there is no driver I dislike more than Rubens (spit) but the ONLY reason there was no contact between them in Hungary last year is because they ran out of pit wall first... it was Schumachers most stupid move in his career because his other stupid moves at least had a WDC at stake, Hungary 2010 was for a few measly points.

Schumi I love yah but that move was soooooooooo wrong.

Watch the reply, MS moved left as soon as he knew that Rubens would run out of tarmac. It was tough but calculated and perfectly executed, can't compare it with what Hamilton was doing today, no way.

[markabilly]

Sure he did, there were parts flying from MS front wing in the hairpin. No surprise with the elephant that went mad in the China shop today.

I still have not seen a good slo-mo replay, but it looked to me like Hamilton also did some brake checking on the line of cars behind him, which lead to the crash chain reaction that stopped the race.




must be my bad vision clouded with hating hamilton :rolleyes:


I used to video the races, and go back, but lately I been watching live....

[gloomyDAY]

If there is someone always critical of a driver, you qualify along with Henners and a couple of others for being the leader on hating a driver. You know, your fav target, being Schuie....

I was almost a solo when I said Lewis should not have suffered the Spa penalty.....I don't even remember hating on The Shoe. Funny, when I started watching F1 it was at the start of 2007, and The Shoe wasn't even in Formula 1! I never had a chance to dislike the guy.

Anyhoot, you and I agree that Hammy shouldn't have received a penalty at Spa 2008.

You and I will have to agree to disagree over Hamilton's performance today. I think it made the hairs on the back of my neck stand-up for all the right reasons. If you're going to race, then race hard, or go home.

[markabilly]

I don't even remember hating on The Shoe. Funny, when I started watching F1 it was at the start of 2007, and The Shoe wasn't even in Formula 1! I never had a chance to dislike the guy.

Anyhoot, you and I agree that Hammy shouldn't have received a penalty at Spa 2008.

You and I will have to agree to disagree over Hamilton's performance today. I think it made the hairs on the back of my neck stand-up for all the right reasons. If you're going to race, then race hard, or go home.

Then he needs to go home, because he can not tell the diff between stupid and hard racing.

Made my hair stand up too, for all the wrong reasons.

And here you see Hamilton, getting Alger in all sorts of trouble by braking in the middle of the corner, TOO HARD, but the guy in back got all the blame.

The real reason for that braking was to throw off the driver behind, making him delay his exit, so Hamilton could get the jump, and pass Sutile without threat from Alger

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xizf9p_formule-1-monaco-2011-big-crash-petrov-alguersuari-red-flag-hd_sport



Actually Sutile should have pulled it over, and Hamilton should have slowed before the corner, but no he is racing, stupid, as always

[Daniel]

Then he needs to go home, because he can not tell the diff between stupid and hard racing.

Made my hair stand up too, for all the wrong reasons.

And here you see Hamilton, getting Alger in all sorts of trouble by braking in the middle of the corner, TOO HARD, but the guy in back got all the blame.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xizf9p_formule-1-monaco-2011-big-crash-petrov-alguersuari-red-flag-hd_sport



Actually Sutile should have pulled it over, and Hamilton should have slowed before the corner, but no he is racing, stupid, as always

WTF are you on about? Hamilton is perfect! he never makes mistakes. Sadly we're dealing with people who would brake when someone is tailgating them, rather than slowing down a little more gradually.......

[markabilly]

WTF are you on about? Hamilton is perfect! he never makes mistakes. Sadly we're dealing with people who would brake when someone is tailgating them, rather than slowing down a little more gradually.......
Sorry, ran out of kool aid before morning's light, and trying to get another batch going, but short on magic mushrooms.....

[Mia 01]

FIA and their stewards will be his best firends from now on, they have to.

[ioan]

Sorry, ran out of kool aid before morning's light, and trying to get another batch going, but short on magic mushrooms.....

:rotflmao:

Good night everyone! :)

[rah]

It was a joke. Racist? against what?

Surely this does not need 9 pages of discussion.

[steveaki13]

It was a joke. Racist? against what?

Surely this does not need 9 pages of discussion.

You'd be amazed how many pages of discussion we can have on nothing much. :p :

In fact lets discuss why we love to discuss so much. :s mokin:

[steveaki13]

The fact is he had a poor race today. If he had come out and been more humble about his race as Di resta was, he would have gained alot more respect. While it wouldn't have excused his race, at least he would have agknowledged his mistakes and that is half the battle after all people make mistakes and misjudgments and if they accept punishment for them, then most will admire that and forgive them.

It seems at the moment he really doesn't see that he is in the wrong which I believe he is, and I believe this to be a real problem going forward.

Don't get me wrong I have been and am a Hamilton fan (On track), I like his willingness to try all race, like Kobayashi, but I think he has major flaws in his whole racer personality with the attitude he has after races.

He has bought alot of pressure on himself now by constantly bashing the stewards, other drivers and at times his team. It is not the way to gain respect or develop the team to help him challenge for the title.

He needs to get his head down and work hard to drag the team to the front and not rant on TV straight after the race, and bringing race into it now opens up a wound that will take a while to heal. I can see that hanging over him for a long time.

The next time he faces the stewards this is undoubtably going to be in the air.

[gloomyDAY]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xizf9p_formule-1-monaco-2011-big-crash-petrov-alguersuari-red-flag-hd_sport



Actually Sutile should have pulled it over, and Hamilton should have slowed before the corner, but no he is racing, stupid, as alwaysI can't believe this. Hamilton gets hit from behind, due to the fact that he needs to slow down for Sutil, and people are placing the blame on Lewis. A car on three wheels is pretty unpredictable and even more so at Monaco.

I could go on, but it's Memorial Day tomorrow and I'm grilling burgers with my Pop's. Have a good night everyone and I'll see you guys at the next race.

[CNR]

i will tell you what i will repeat what lewis said so you have it in black and white

[wedge]

It was a joke. Racist? against what?

Surely this does not need 9 pages of discussion.

Just watching the BBC F1 Forum now and to put things in context gotta love his black ie. dark sense of humour.

Irony does not translate well in print and nor does it help when you have a bad day in the office and cannot blame yourself for some of it.

[Ari]

I saw him say it live and although he was clearly joking I question whether there was any truth to it...

You know, some people say what they mean as a joke.

Well, my thoughts. I think he'd have done well with a hot shower and a meal before talking to the media... I guess the drivers are not afforded that luxury though! ;)

I love Hami and have grown to respect him when I did not at the start of his career. Yesterday was a bad, bad day for him. One ill forgive if he can put this behind him and carry forward in a better way.

[ArrowsFA1]

No surprise to see Hamilton's comments generating a thread like this. From the moment the interview began you could tell this was one unhappy and frustrated driver. I did wince a bit at his comments, but do we want to see 'corporate speak' or drivers speaking their minds?

I agree with Hamilton about F1 wanting to see overtaking, and yet penalties being dished out when drivers try. He hasn't been the only driver to suffer at the hands of the stewards in those circumstances and I think that what drivers can do now is over policed.

That said Lewis looked like a driver who was up for a scrap yesterday and in those kind of circumstances perhaps incidents were inevitable, particularly at Monaco. Perhaps he frustration of watching the championship slip away for another year is getting to him.

[The Black Knight]

I saw him say it live and although he was clearly joking I question whether there was any truth to it...

You know, some people say what they mean as a joke.

Well, my thoughts. I think he'd have done well with a hot shower and a meal before talking to the media... I guess the drivers are not afforded that luxury though! ;)

I love Hami and have grown to respect him when I did not at the start of his career. Yesterday was a bad, bad day for him. One ill forgive if he can put this behind him and carry forward in a better way.

I disagree with what he said but there have been times in the past where I felt he was racially discriminated against. If there's ever a penalty to be handed out then Hamilton is the one to receive it. I still regard Spa 2008 as one of the most blatant and disgraceful attempts to sabotage another drivers championship by the governing body any sport that we have ever seen. It was a disgrace and if anything Hamilton should have spoken up then if he felt he was being racially targeted. He chose the wrong time to do so now but yesterday I saw a man that was sick of being picked on.

Anyway, he has cleared the air with the FIA and said it was a joke. I'm sure there was more to it than that and he may believe there is more to it but the matter is cleared for now anyway. If the FIA give him any sort of ban for his comments now after him clearing the air with them then they are only giving substance to his claim in the first place. The stewards and the FIA will not want to make this into a race issue and giving him a ban of any sort now would definitely do that.

[The Black Knight]

I can't believe this. Hamilton gets hit from behind, due to the fact that he needs to slow down for Sutil, and people are placing the blame on Lewis. A car on three wheels is pretty unpredictable and even more so at Monaco.

I could go on, but it's Memorial Day tomorrow and I'm grilling burgers with my Pop's. Have a good night everyone and I'll see you guys at the next race.

There are always going to be a few that choose to blame a driver because they don't like him or it just generates amusement for their own benefit. It's obvious even to the least bright of the dumb dumbs that Hamilton was not to blame for the SC incident.

[Ranger]

He obviously said it as a joke.

[Hawkmoon]

No surprise to see Hamilton's comments generating a thread like this. From the moment the interview began you could tell this was one unhappy and frustrated driver. I did wince a bit at his comments, but do we want to see 'corporate speak' or drivers speaking their minds?

It doesn't matter whether he was joking, he effectively accused the stewards of racism. That's not something to be laughed at considerng how seriously racism is treated. I have a feeling that Whitmarsh had a word to the boy, hence the apology. Frusrated or not, he shouldn't have said it.

[Tumbo]

I disagree with what he said but there have been times in the past where I felt he was racially discriminated against. If there's ever a penalty to be handed out then Hamilton is the one to receive it.

Racially discriminated or merely discriminated based on his team - just because someone is personally targeted does not mean that race is going to be the underlying reason. There has been NOTHING to ever suggest that there is a racial component to any of the times Lewis has been targeted (be it fairly or not) and to come out w/ a stupid throw away line like he did certainly doesn't do anything for those fighting to remove the last vestiges for racism which remain in parts of the world.

I was a huge LHfan when he first came through and thought that he needed to pull his head in a bit over the last 12mths but onaco yesterday and his attitude of expecting ppl to part like the Red Sea and allow him to sail on by without properly pulling off a passing move (since when did the driver leading have to yield to the car behind - I notice that there were a few on here saying LH was in the clear who 12mths ago ripped into Vettel for sticking his nose up the inside of one MW).

Yesterday LH did not drive like a former World Champion but rather a petulent little brat; and his comments post race about how 'friggen ridiculous' it was to be brought up on his latest indiscretion shows that he is completely out of touch - thankfully he has apologised but what he said to the media following his meeting w/ the stewards to say sorry seemed very much a 'i'm sorry that i'm having to apologise for what i said'

[F1boat]

I'd like to see Ben Edwards commenting his moves - the attack on Massa was "classic Matt Neal" :D

[The Black Knight]

Racially discriminated or merely discriminated based on his team - just because someone is personally targeted does not mean that race is going to be the underlying reason. There has been NOTHING to ever suggest that there is a racial component to any of the times Lewis has been targeted (be it fairly or not) and to come out w/ a stupid throw away line like he did certainly doesn't do anything for those fighting to remove the last vestiges for racism which remain in parts of the world.

I was a huge LHfan when he first came through and thought that he needed to pull his head in a bit over the last 12mths but onaco yesterday and his attitude of expecting ppl to part like the Red Sea and allow him to sail on by without properly pulling off a passing move (since when did the driver leading have to yield to the car behind - I notice that there were a few on here saying LH was in the clear who 12mths ago ripped into Vettel for sticking his nose up the inside of one MW).

[size=100][font=Times New Roman]Yesterday LH did not drive like a former World Champion but rather a petulent little brat; and his comments post race about how 'friggen ridiculous' it was to be brought up on his latest indiscretion shows that he is completely out of touch - thankfully he has apologised but what he said to the media following his meeting w/ the stewards to say sorry seemed very much a 'i'm sorry that i'm having to apologise for what i said'
Expecting people to part like the Red Sea? Rubbish. He was trying to race. Would you have preferred seen him sit back and play with his dick for 78 laps of the race like Massa and most others were willing to do? It is very clear he made an error Massa into Loews Hairpin but so did Massa. Other than that he didn’t do anything else wrong in the race. The SC incident was a racing incident and that is clearly obvious to anyone with half a brain. The incident into St Devote with Maldonado was Maldonado’s fault as he turned in on Hamilton. Where he expects Hamilton to go at that stage is beyond me but certainly Hamilton should not have received a penalty for what happened there. I also believe if the stewards were fully convinced he was at fault they would have given him a penalty that would have affected his finishing position, so clearly they weren’t 100% convinced themselves either but felt that they had to be seen to be doing something.

Hamilton has been personally targeted in the past. If you can give me a good reason other than race why that would be the case then I shall accept that but other than that he clearly has been targeted. Race is the only obvious reason that I can think of; can you think of any other ones?

Comments like what Hamilton said are a result of being targeted, remove him being targeted and you remove the need for him to say such things. That will help those fighting to remove racism, which, by the way, is very much still alive in most of the world unfortunately.

[CaptainRaiden]

This thread is a proof that F1 drivers should strictly just do PR interviews, say the right things, no matter how boring they are, and everybody is happy. The moment someone says feck all and says what he wants to, it becomes fodder for his haters to jump on the bandwagon and rip into him.

[CaptainRaiden]

C'mon this is a thing of past nothing to do with 21st century in the civilized world.

:laugh:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/11/06/article-1083606-002178E300000578-16_468x286.jpg

This was in 2008, Spain. Very much 21st century, no?

This and as another poster mentioned, some jackasses yelling monkey at races, and I don't blame Lewis for being a tad too emotional about this all. Not only this, the whole fuss about him being the first black driver in F1 was created by the media, as he said in an interview, I don't know if I quote him correctly, "I don't even think about it unless I'm asked that question by the media."

[Cooper_S]

There has been more overtaking in the last 6 races than in the last 6 years... even in the Monaco GP there was plenty of overtaking up and down the grid yet only one driver stood out as being gung ho... The fans want to see overtaking and they have seen overtaking... they do not wish to see dangerous moves by a driver who was obviously not in the right frame of mind to be in that car yesterday.


He should take the next two weeks to look at his attitude and try and calm down or he is going to self-destruct and in F1 that can mean someone might get hurt.

I'm not a big fan of McLaren but frustratingly I like both their drivers and I hope to see them win again, but Lewis is making it hard to like him at the moment.

I never thought I would ever sy this but maybe they need to bring back Ron Dennis, I doubt his comments would never have been made had Ron still been in charge.

[Tumbo]

[size=100][font=Times New Roman]
Hamilton has been personally targeted in the past. If you can give me a good reason other than race why that would be the case then I shall accept that but other than that he clearly has been targeted. Race is the only obvious reason that I can think of; can you think of any other ones?


I gave you one - he drives for McLaren and in 2008 they were clearly getting the short end of the straw following the 07 incidents - and so ur basic premise is that there is no evidence it is race but clearly it must be race?? And if you think the targetting of Hamilton by the stewards for lying in Australia 09 was race related??

As for Maldonado it was a dive-bomb plain and simple - watch the replay, there was no way he was able to stop since he basically went right up the inside expecting Maldonado to yield position without a fight. Penalty has been in F1 for YRS and will continue to be

[IceWizard]

I don't see any problem with Hamilton's comments - they were clearly intended as a joke. Its good to see some drivers with a bit of personaility. As for the penalties, I thought the first one was a bit harsh. Yes, it probably was Hamilton's fault but for me not bad enough to warrant a penalty. If such a minor transgression attracts a penalty then it will surely make drivers more cautious and diminish the racing.

[CaptainRaiden]

Anyway, my 2 cents on this matter. The Massa incident was Lewis' fault, but so was Massa to blame for turning in too soon. He could have given him room, both cars would have made it through, and Massa would still be ahead before the tunnel.

Maldonado should have used his rear view mirrors better. Yes, Lewis was ambitious, but all overtaking moves are ambitious. If MS hadn't used his mirrors when Lewis overtook him, it would have been a similar disaster. I don't understand the second penalty. It's not like Lewis deliberately took out a championship rival. He had nothing to gain from causing a collision. It was a simple racing incident. Penalty undeserved.

That's all.

[Cooper_S]

Penalty undeserved.

That's all.

Lucky for F1 and the rest of us who want to see clean racing you don't get to make that decision.

[The Black Knight]

I gave you one - he drives for McLaren and in 2008 they were clearly getting the short end of the straw following the 07 incidents - and so ur basic premise is that there is no evidence it is race but clearly it must be race?? And if you think the targetting of Hamilton by the stewards for lying in Australia 09 was race related??

As for Maldonado it was a dive-bomb plain and simple - watch the replay, there was no way he was able to stop since he basically went right up the inside expecting Maldonado to yield position without a fight. Penalty has been in F1 for YRS and will continue to be

The first paragraph of that post is very badly written. I find it hard to get your point.

Regards the Maldonado incident, Lewis clearly had gone down the inside like he did with Schumacher. Schumacher had the sense to move out of the way. Maldonado, a little less experienced, chose to turn in early. Take the turn in point of the car in front, place some marker on your screen to mark the proper racing line and then look at Maldonado's turning point and you'll see what I mean. If you can't see it after that then go to specsavers.

[Cooper_S]

...go to specsavers.

Is that where they sell Lewis tinted glasses?

[The Black Knight]

Is that where they sell Lewis tinted glasses?

I have 20/20 vision, don't need them :D

[Tumbo]

Ok i'll spell it out my point more simply:

2007 McLaren were caught up in a little incident which became known as Stepneygate and resulted in the team being dumped from the constructors championship (surely you must remember this). In 2008 there were a number of incidents involving Lewis and penalties which were deemed at the time to be quite harsh and as though he had a target on his back for stewards - at this time quite a few of us were making rumblings about unfair targeting of lewis but it is clear that race was NEVER an issue here. Following on from this we saw lewis brought up for things like lying to the stewards among other offenses; some like the previous were incredibly serious and had ppl baying for blood but on the whole he didn't seem to be anymore a target for steward investigations than other drivers who fought hard on the racetrack.

Fast forward to this wkend and we have lewis claiming racial motivation as the reason the STEWARDS have been calling him into the office on a regular basis. This is a serious accusation and not one to be made lightly in any forum; now where is the evidence this has been racially motivated cause on the facts there is none. There is nothing that could be used to even say circumstantially this has been the case yet the argument seems to be Black Knight that with no evidence it must still be racism underlying lewis being penalised for poor judgment and skirting the laws of F1 rather than anything else because there is nothing to prove that it isn't racism - this is known as the bootstraps argument and has about as much strength as lewis' claim that there is racism against him in the steward's office.

Now it is clear - as a photo shown earlier proves - that there have been attacks on him by followers of the sports based on race; now unless one of those clown's shown was a steward (and they don't seem to resemble Charlie Whiting or any former driver or the like to me but i'm happy to be proven wrong) then they are acting as individuals. A spray like this one from lewis is completely uncalled for; and he would have apologised also because of the risk of a private action for defamation.

Hopefully this is more clear :)

[F1boat]

Anyway, my 2 cents on this matter. The Massa incident was Lewis' fault, but so was Massa to blame for turning in too soon. He could have given him room

Why should the driver give room to Lewy? Because he is "racey"?

[The Black Knight]

Ok i'll spell it out my point more simply:

2007 McLaren were caught up in a little incident which became known as Stepneygate and resulted in the team being dumped from the constructors championship (surely you must remember this). In 2008 there were a number of incidents involving Lewis and penalties which were deemed at the time to be quite harsh and as though he had a target on his back for stewards - at this time quite a few of us were making rumblings about unfair targeting of lewis but it is clear that race was NEVER an issue here. Following on from this we saw lewis brought up for things like lying to the stewards among other offenses; some like the previous were incredibly serious and had ppl baying for blood but on the whole he didn't seem to be anymore a target for steward investigations than other drivers who fought hard on the racetrack.

Fast forward to this wkend and we have lewis claiming racial motivation as the reason the STEWARDS have been calling him into the office on a regular basis. This is a serious accusation and not one to be made lightly in any forum; now where is the evidence this has been racially motivated cause on the facts there is none. There is nothing that could be used to even say circumstantially this has been the case yet the argument seems to be Black Knight that with no evidence it must still be racism underlying lewis being penalised for poor judgment and skirting the laws of F1 rather than anything else because there is nothing to prove that it isn't racism - this is known as the bootstraps argument and has about as much strength as lewis' claim that there is racism against him in the steward's office.

Now it is clear - as a photo shown earlier proves - that there have been attacks on him by followers of the sports based on race; now unless one of those clown's shown was a steward (and they don't seem to resemble Charlie Whiting or any former driver or the like to me but i'm happy to be proven wrong) then they are acting as individuals. A spray like this one from lewis is completely uncalled for; and he would have apologised also because of the risk of a private action for defamation.

Hopefully this is more clear :)

Yes, I am well aware of the Stephneygate and now I get what you’re saying. Honestly, I have always had a suspicion of racism against Lewis. If the FIA for some reason chose to give Lewis harsher penalties due to the Stephneygate then they should have given McLaren a more suitable penalty. A penalty is punishment enough for the team, if the FIA don’t believe the penalty strong enough then they can impose a stronger penalty or further sanctions at the time but to take it out on a new driver on the grid is wrong. Either way, the FIA are at fault here. If they were going to hold a grudge then they should have cleared that grudge with a stronger penalty for the Stephneygate. Again, I’m not convinced that it was the Stephneygate alone but I agree any evidence of racism isn’t well founded and would be very hard to prove but I'm not convinced that racism doesn't play some role and clearly neither is Lewis.

However, lets keep an open eye on it ;)

[CaptainRaiden]

Lucky for F1 and the rest of us who want to see clean racing you don't get to make that decision.

Lucky for you, the ones who want "clean racing", the stewards have made sure that drivers will think twice before even attempting a move in the future, unless it's a simple slipstreaming move on a 1 km long straight with the help of some gimmicks. On a tight corner, oh hell no! By today's standards, Senna and Gilles Villenueve would have both received penalties in most races.

Probably it's better to go back to the Ferrari era where the two Ferraris were trouncing the field and the only passing moves were during pit-stops. Simple and yet effective. Dollops of "clean racing" right there. ;)

[CaptainRaiden]

Why should the driver give room to Lewy? Because he is "racey"?

Please don't talk like ioan, you are better than him. And to answer your question, to avoid damage to his car. Anyway, I said it was Lewis' fault, nobody is denying that. But if Massa would have used his rear view mirrors like MS did, he could have seen where Lewis' was already. Even though Lowe's is a tight corner, he could have taken a wider line, held that line through Portier and still would have been on the inside line before the tunnel, thus being ahead and avoiding contact. Anyway it was all in the heat of the moment while "racing" and both of them made mistakes, Lewis more so.

[Cooper_S]

LOL... as a career long Schumacher fan I've been there done that... enjoyed every moment of it thanks...

But back to your point, I don't have to go back to those halcyon days as now we have great racing despite one driver (at present anyway) being dominant and stupid moves by drivers being too rash are being penalised…

The days of a Senna or a Schumacher being so aggressive that other drivers simply moved out of the way are gone, someone need to let Lewis know this… Oh wait they are and they are called Stewards.

[steveaki13]

[size=100][font=Times New Roman]
Expecting people to part like the Red Sea? Rubbish. He was trying to race. Would you have preferred seen him sit back and play with his dick for 78 laps of the race like Massa and most others were willing to do? It is very clear he made an error Massa into Loews Hairpin but so did Massa. Other than that he didn’t do anything else wrong in the race. The SC incident was a racing incident and that is clearly obvious to anyone with half a brain. The incident into St Devote with Maldonado was Maldonado’s fault as he turned in on Hamilton. Where he expects Hamilton to go at that stage is beyond me but certainly Hamilton should not have received a penalty for what happened there. I also believe if the stewards were fully convinced he was at fault they would have given him a penalty that would have affected his finishing position, so clearly they weren’t 100% convinced themselves either but felt that they had to be seen to be doing something.

Hamilton has been personally targeted in the past. If you can give me a good reason other than race why that would be the case then I shall accept that but other than that he clearly has been targeted. Race is the only obvious reason that I can think of; can you think of any other ones?

Comments like what Hamilton said are a result of being targeted, remove him being targeted and you remove the need for him to say such things. That will help those fighting to remove racism, which, by the way, is very much still alive in most of the world unfortunately.

By all means attack and try and pass, but if it fails he has to accept his faults, you could chuck it up the inside of anyone every lap but wouldn't last long. So he has to be patient. Around Monaco you get drivers stuck behind others for 40 laps, no point in just launching it in there and hoping the other driver gets out of the way.

I think what got to most, was the way he didn't accept any blame. Surely even if you feel Massa or Hulkenberg were at fault you wouldn't claim it was 100% his fault like Lewis did.

The attitude to the race was worse than what he did on the track. If he'd of said, "I tried the pass I thought Massa should have seen me, but maybe I was a bit too late to make the move" then many would accept it as a mistake in racing, but to rant that Massa and Maldonado just turned into him just to stop Lewis passing is not right.

Those drivers wouldn't take such stupid risks just to stop Lewis passing because they ruin there own race.

[F1boat]

X, I can't understand you. I know that you support McLaren-Mercedes and like Lewis for his overtaking maneuvres and I admit that his moves on MS and Maldonado were hard, but fair. But against Massa he showed his ugly side. As Lewis sees and opening, he forces himself in it and clearly thinks that the other driver has no right to defend against him - if he tries, Lewis bangs him. This attitude may work in touring cars, but in open wheelers it is very dangerous, unethical, and reveals burning arrogance in the driver. In the case, in Lewis Hamilton. Think about this year, in which we had so many great race and so much overtaking, done by Vettel, Webber, Jenson and of course Lewis. But it is only Lewis who makes dirty maneuvre and that's why the stewards and penalising him. It's not a vendetta. It's not because he is black.
It is because he is dangerous and his moves ruin the races for other guys and in my opinion endanger them - this was Monaco after all. That's why so many fans are upset with him. Because he thinks that everything is allowed.
And BTW, you mentioned Senna, Senna thought in similar way too and while he is udoubtedly one of the best ever, these moves also left an enormous black mark on his career. Similar to the moves of Michael, who you dislike immensely, if I am not mistaken.

[CaptainRaiden]

X, I can't understand you. I know that you support McLaren-Mercedes and like Lewis for his overtaking maneuvres and I admit that his moves on MS and Maldonado were hard, but fair. But against Massa he showed his ugly side. As Lewis sees and opening, he forces himself in it and clearly thinks that the other driver has no right to defend against him - if he tries, Lewis bangs him. This attitude may work in touring cars, but in open wheelers it is very dangerous, unethical, and reveals burning arrogance in the driver. In the case, in Lewis Hamilton. Think about this year, in which we had so many great race and so much overtaking, done by Vettel, Webber, Jenson and of course Lewis. But it is only Lewis who makes dirty maneuvre and that's why the stewards and penalising him. It's not a vendetta. It's not because he is black.
It is because he is dangerous and his moves ruin the races for other guys and in my opinion endanger them - this was Monaco after all. That's why so many fans are upset with him. Because he thinks that everything is allowed.

Wait, when the heck did Lewis "bang" anybody this season prior to Monaco? Australia was clean. Malaysia penalty was because of weaving, albeit still much lesser than how much Webber weaves during a race or how dangerously MS weaved during his career. China was a clean race winning move. Nothing happened in Turkey, and in Spain he tried his best but couldn't overtake. So, where are all these allegations piling on from?!? He has always been a rather aggressive, but still a clean overtaker, and apart from Monaco 2011, when else did he "bang" somebody? 2008 was nothing controversial apart from the stupid steward decision at Spa. 2009 was low key, 2010 was a great year where he was in the mix up until the last race. I think you're going a bit overboard in your criticism of Lewis. You don't have to like him, but you also don't have to hate him with a passion and just come up with exaggerated allegations.


And BTW, you mentioned Senna, Senna thought in similar way too and while he is udoubtedly one of the best ever, these moves also left an enormous black mark on his career. Similar to the moves of Michael, who you dislike immensely, if I am not mistaken.

At this point you can't compare Lewis to Senna or Schumacher, because he hasn't tried to deliberately take out a championship rival yet. :p At least Senna admitted to it and was bullish about it, while Schumacher acted like he didn't do anything wrong. With Lewis, the only problem in Monaco was with Massa and Maldonado, who are far from being championship rivals at this point, so there was nothing deliberate, only racing incidents. Nothing to gain for Lewis, and everything to lose, since he was the only legit contender to this year's crown apart from Vettel, right up until Monaco. If you remember, Massa created problems for Button too in Australia, so the fault A TAD could be on Massa as well for over-defending.

[CaptainRaiden]

as a career long Schumacher fan

Oh, I feel sorry for you. :(


The days of a Senna or a Schumacher being so aggressive that other drivers simply moved out of the way are gone, someone need to let Lewis know this… Oh wait they are and they are called Stewards.

Schumacher wasn't aggressive in overtaking, but in defending, still is (See the kamikaze move at Hungary last year and again at Turkey this year). It was his over the top weaving that prompted the stewards to bring in the "no third weave" rule into place. For the pope's sake, he was allowed to win a championship after taking out Damon Hill in an almost criminal fashion, but oh no, messing up trying to overtake slower cars in 2011 is such an unholy crime! Many drivers still use these "tactics" but weirdly Lewis gets penalized more so. After a while one starts to wonder, just as Adrian Sutil also wondered about this 3 years ago.

[Cooper_S]

[quote="X-ecutioner":2wuiarrj]
as a career long Schumacher fan
Oh, I feel sorry for you.[/quote:2wuiarrj]

No need 'Z' I am quite proud to be a Schumacher fan, indeed I feel very fortunate to have witnessed his 91GP wins :champion: , 7 WDC's :champion: and 154 podiums :up:

But I've heard people say that you are a McLaren fan :bigcry: , please forgive me you have my deepest sympathies… so... I... will... speak... more... slowly... for... you... in... future... :rotflmao:

[AndyRAC]

It was a poor attempt at a joke - get over it, move on!

[Cooper_S]

Not that easy... you see while will wish to move on others will be of the opinion that just because he was told by his team to go to the judges and say it was a joke does not mean he meant it as a joke... he was agnry and seople have a tendency to say what they really feel when they are angry howeer much they regret what they said afterwards... He said it and like it or not it will not go away that easy.

[CaptainRaiden]

No need 'Z' I am quite proud to be a Schumacher fan, indeed I feel very fortunate to have witnessed his 91GP wins :champion: , 7 WDC's :champion: and 154 podiums :up:

Ah yes, now I believe you're a Schumacher fan, stats are your only friends. ;) You know, it's very good that he achieved all of that, because it must be pretty painful to watch him getting thrashed by Britney for the last 2 years. Those 91 victories will serve as a good cushion to rest his trampled arsch.

[The Black Knight]

By all means attack and try and pass, but if it fails he has to accept his faults, you could chuck it up the inside of anyone every lap but wouldn't last long. So he has to be patient. Around Monaco you get drivers stuck behind others for 40 laps, no point in just launching it in there and hoping the other driver gets out of the way.

I think what got to most, was the way he didn't accept any blame. Surely even if you feel Massa or Hulkenberg were at fault you wouldn't claim it was 100% his fault like Lewis did.

The attitude to the race was worse than what he did on the track. If he'd of said, "I tried the pass I thought Massa should have seen me, but maybe I was a bit too late to make the move" then many would accept it as a mistake in racing, but to rant that Massa and Maldonado just turned into him just to stop Lewis passing is not right.

Those drivers wouldn't take such stupid risks just to stop Lewis passing because they ruin there own race.


Clearly Massa did see him because he changed his racing line to block him which is what caused them to tangle anyway. Saying that a coming together was probably inevitable anyway once he made the move from the position he was in. I agree that Lewis was at fault for the Massa incident but Massa was a little as well and I believe Lewis should acknowledge this but it doesn’t appear like that is going to happen.

[The Black Knight]

Ah yes, now I believe you're a Schumacher fan, stats are your only friends. ;) You know, it's very good that he achieved all of that, because it must be pretty painful to watch him getting thrashed by Britney for the last 2 years. Those 91 victories will serve as a good cushion to rest his trampled arsch.

At 42 years of age he is clearly not the force he used to be. He will never be the Schumacher of old but I don't know many 42 year olds that could do what he is doing now. The way he was throwing the car around in Monaco was almighty impressive. For a 42 year old he is super.

[Cooper_S]

Ah yes, now I believe you're a Schumacher fan, stats are your only friends. ;) You know, it's very good that he achieved all of that, because it must be pretty painful to watch him getting thrashed by Britney for the last 2 years. Those 91 victories will serve as a good cushion to rest his trampled arsch.
not in the slightest... as usual his detractors always make this wrong assumption... to me he retired end of 2006 and the mere fact Kimi managed to win in 2007 is ample proof Schumacher would have been 8 time WDC... but that is life but now he is just having a laugh and in the 3 years he was away from F1 I've formed new allegences, and so he is now just another racer out there, and so long as he beats Rubens that is all I ask... so far so good.

Facts are facts and I cannot help his career stats... they happened and there is nothing I can do about them.

[N. Jones]

Ha! Knew this was going to get talked about heavily. Was he kidding or telling the truth?

Me? I think "In humor lies the truth." Poor guy....

[Cooper_S]

I agree that Lewis was at fault for the Massa incident but Massa was a little as well and I believe Lewis should acknowledge this but it doesn’t appear like that is going to happen.

Very few incidents are all one drivers fault but 50:50 tends to result in no penalty but 70:30 will and that is what happened... in fairness Lewis's post race comments have overshadowed the comments of Massa post race which I believe to be groundless blame laying at Lewis.

[CaptainRaiden]

not in the slightest... as usual his detractors always make this wrong assumption... to me he retired end of 2006 and the mere fact Kimi managed to win in 2007 is ample proof Schumacher would have been 8 time WDC... but that is life but now he is just having a laugh and in the 3 years he was away from F1 I've formed new allegences, and so he is now just another racer out there, and so long as he beats Rubens that is all I ask... so far so good.

Well, him having a laugh is costing Mercedes a truckload of money. :)

[Cooper_S]

Well, him having a laugh is costing Mercedes a truckload of money. :)

LOL... Not my problem... besides I am a BMW man anyway... Mercedes is one of the reasons I don't support McLaren.

As I said as far as I am concerend Schumacher has rewarded my support more than any other driver and and I have moved on since 2006 and I am now enjoying the careers of new drivers like Button and Vettel (both ex BMW) and Lewis as he is fun to watch.

[F1boat]

Ah yes, now I believe you're a Schumacher fan, stats are your only friends. ;) You know, it's very good that he achieved all of that, because it must be pretty painful to watch him getting thrashed by Britney for the last 2 years. Those 91 victories will serve as a good cushion to rest his trampled arsch.

I'll answer to both your posts here, because I have a bit of trouble with quoting. First of all, about MS, it is normal for an old driver not to be as fast as his prime. If you follow WRC, you would have noticed that legendary drivers like Makinen and Sainz were not very fast at the end of their careers. I believe that similar examples are Foyt in Indy Car and Petty in NASCAR , I might add Bernd Schneider in the DTM. I don't think that a few ordinary years in the gloom of their careers diminish their achievements in their prime.
About the comparisons with Ayrton Senna, I'm not sure that being arrogant about your crime is better than being shady about it. Not that it is worse, they are equally wrong IMO. Obviously, not for you, as Ayrton drove for McLaren and Michael for Ferrari and Benetton.
About Lewis, I think that it is obvious that his overtaking moves are extremely aggressive and most drivers back off when they see him attacking, just like Alonso was very cautious of Montoya in 2005. Drivers like Montoya and Hamilton would attempt an overtake, even with the risk of crash. Most drivers do not share the "hero or zero" approach and back off, however, sometimes they try to defend themselves, like Massa in Monaco. In that case, Hamilton's aggression ruined his race. But last year, in Monza, it cost him dearly. It will be very good for Lewis if he can learn to control his temper. If he can't, however, he has to be punished by the stewards, like Vettel, who was punished for stupid moves after Oz 09 or in the Belgium GP last year. Nothing personal, but F1 are not bumper cars.
And about the hatred, everybody here probably knows that I am an emotional fan, but more towards certain attitude than against certain drivers. I can not stand pricks who think that the world owes them. However, I was able to cheer for Hammy in the past, as now I am impressed by Sebastian and happy for him.

[555-04Q2]

Worth a thread of it's own this.

But he is black...or is he green...or yellow...or blue...

[CaptainRaiden]

About the comparisons with Ayrton Senna, I'm not sure that being arrogant about your crime is better than being shady about it. Not that it is worse, they are equally wrong IMO. Obviously, not for you, as Ayrton drove for McLaren and Michael for Ferrari and Benetton.

One admits it, one lies about it. So, is the liar better? 91 wins or a 1000 wins, he doesn't get any respect from me. If you're cynical enough to deliberately take your rival out while traveling at 300 kmph, then you're obviously an unethical man and a danger to everyone around you, and this is something that Lewis, even for all your hatred for him, hasn't done or even attempted to do yet.

Yes, he is an aggressive driver, but nowhere near as evil and deliberate as MS in intentions. So, MS fans, who accept and adore his actions should just STFU about all of this, because it just stinks of double standards.


About Lewis, I think that it is obvious that his overtaking moves are extremely aggressive and most drivers back off when they see him attacking, just like Alonso was very cautious of Montoya in 2005. Drivers like Montoya and Hamilton would attempt an overtake, even with the risk of crash. Most drivers do not share the "hero or zero" approach and back off, however, sometimes they try to defend themselves, like Massa in Monaco. In that case, Hamilton's aggression ruined his race. But last year, in Monza, it cost him dearly. It will be very good for Lewis if he can learn to control his temper. If he can't, however, he has to be punished by the stewards, like Vettel, who was punished for stupid moves after Oz 09 or in the Belgium GP last year. Nothing personal, but F1 are not bumper cars.

And about the hatred, everybody here probably knows that I am an emotional fan, but more towards certain attitude than against certain drivers. I can not stand pricks who think that the world owes them. However, I was able to cheer for Hammy in the past, as now I am impressed by Sebastian and happy for him.

Again, how many people has Lewis punted off track to deserve these many allegations? I simply fail to comprehend. He wasn't a danger to anybody in 2007-2008 and 2009. Webber took him out in Australia and Singapore last year, no penalties for Lewis there. Monza was 100% his mistake and he paid for being too overeager with broken suspension. Again, it was on a slower corner and no danger to anybody around him. He's got penalties for cutting the track in his career, yes, but how many times was he penalized for causing a collision? More or the less the same number as his fellow drivers I'm afraid. Then why are his haters piling on him calling him a dangerous driver? I don't get it. Does this bandwagon have free beer?? :confused:

[ioan]

It doesn't matter whether he was joking, he effectively accused the stewards of racism. That's not something to be laughed at considerng how seriously racism is treated. I have a feeling that Whitmarsh had a word to the boy, hence the apology. Frusrated or not, he shouldn't have said it.

Exactly.

[ioan]

:laugh:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/11/06/article-1083606-002178E300000578-16_468x286.jpg

This was in 2008, Spain. Very much 21st century, no?

Generalizing based on a few idiots' behavior it's very much like what I was expecting from you.

[ioan]

I don't see any problem with Hamilton's comments - they were clearly intended as a joke.

They were stupid, to start with. Not enough of a problem to tell stupid things on the air?! :laugh:

[ioan]

The first paragraph of that post is very badly written. I find it hard to get your point.

His first paragraph is very clear, unless you started watching F1 yesterday or have a problem reading long paragraphs.

[Cooper_S]

.... he doesn't get any respect from me...

Oh.... no.... how.... ever.... will... he.... cope?.... I.... know.... he.... will.... cope... just.... fine.... :cool:

[ioan]

I think what got to most, was the way he didn't accept any blame.

Nothing new, really. The guy thinks he's the best thing that ever happened to this world, let alone F1. Luckily we have Vettel to slap him back to consciousness.

[ioan]

No need 'Z' I am quite proud to be a Schumacher fan, indeed I feel very fortunate to have witnessed his 91GP wins :champion: , 7 WDC's :champion: and 154 podiums ...

But I've heard people say that you are a McLaren fan :bigcry: , please forgive me you have my deepest sympathies… so... I... will... speak... more... slowly... for... you... in... future...

:rotflmao:
Well said!

[ioan]

Well, him having a laugh is costing Mercedes a truckload of money. :)

Same goes for the other Mercedes driver.
No wait, at least MS' name brings along the sponsors I wonder what that other guy brings along, barbie dolls?!

[CaptainRaiden]

Generalizing based on a few idiots' behavior it's very much like what I was expecting from you.

:confused:

It was you who said that these kind of things don't happen in the civilized world in the 21st century. I just gave you an example that it still happens, doesn't matter whether a few or many, it still happens. I have witnessed it first hand. And if these things are piled on a regular basis onto an F1 driver, who are aggressive by nature, it is bound to come out sooner or later. While I think he is wrong in saying that, I can understand where he's coming from.

[ioan]

One admits it, one lies about it. So, is the liar better? 91 wins or a 1000 wins, he doesn't get any respect from me.

The best part of it is that while he doesn't even care about what you think, you are getting so worked up that you make me laugh! Priceless! :laugh:

[ioan]

:confused:

I thought so.

[CaptainRaiden]

Same goes for the other Mercedes driver.
No wait, at least MS' name brings along the sponsors I wonder what that other guy brings along, barbie dolls?!

Hmm, 3 podiums for Rosberg to MS' none. Plus an absolute thrashing in the points table. He's tearing a new A-hole in MS' Dummkopf for the last 2 years with those Barbie dolls for sure, doing it while driving a car with sponsors which MS attracted. It's like a honeymoon for Rosberg.

[ioan]

Hmm, 3 podiums for Rosberg to MS' none. Plus an absolute thrashing in the points table. He's tearing a new A-hole in MS' Dummkopf for the last 2 years with those Barbie dolls for sure, doing it while driving a car with sponsors which MS attracted. It's like a honeymoon for Rosberg.

Yeah as we all saw last week end and the week before and before that and before that Rosberg is the god of racing, NOT! :laugh:

[CaptainRaiden]

The best part of it is that while he doesn't even care about what you think, you are getting so worked up that you make me laugh! Priceless! :laugh:

My pleasure I was able to entertain you. Quite surprised to learn that you can laugh actually. :)

[CaptainRaiden]

Yeah as we all saw last week end and the week before and before that and before that Rosberg is the god of racing, NOT! :laugh:

Wow, relax. It seems you're hyperventilating with these random bursts of laughter. Probably an after effect of witnessing MS getting his arse handed to him by Barbie: Testosterone Edition on a regular basis for the last 2 years. :)

[CaptainRaiden]

Yeah as we all saw last week end and the week before and before that and before that Rosberg is the god of racing, NOT! :laugh:



Drivers' Championship

Pos. Driver Team Points
1. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull 143
2. Lewis Hamilton McLaren 85
3. Mark Webber Red Bull 79
4. Jenson Button McLaren 76
5. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 69
6. Nick Heidfeld Renault 29
7. Nico Rosberg Mercedes Grand Prix 26
8. Felipe Massa Ferrari 24
9. Vitaly Petrov Renault 21
10. Kamui Kobayashi Sauber 19
11. Michael Schumacher Mercedes Grand Prix 14

And you are right, it doesn't take much effort to destroy MS in the same car, unless the whole team is on his side. Then you become Rubens Barrichello, a frustrated lap dog until your contract runs out.

[Cooper_S]

...an absolute thrashing in the points table...

LOL, speaking slow for your benifit...

after... 6 races... and... a... possible... 150 points... Schumacher... is... 12 points... adrift... of... his... teammate... Oh... No... what... a... thrashing.

Jenson... is... 9 points... adrift... of... Lewis... so... I... take... it... you... agree... Jenson... is... taking... an... absolute... thrashing... also... and... the... less... said... about... Mark... Webbers... 63 points... behind... Vettel... the... better.

[Bagwan]

Brown , like a medium roast Yergacheffe bean .

He's no where near an espresso .

[CaptainRaiden]

LOL, speaking slow for your benifit...

after... 6 races... and... a... possible... 150 points... Schumacher... is... 12 points... adrift... of... his... teammate... Oh... No... what... a... thrashing.

Jenson... is... 9 points... adrift... of... Lewis... so... I... take... it... you... agree... Jenson... is... taking... an... absolute... thrashing... also... and... the... less... said... about... Mark... Webbers... 63 points... behind... Vettel... the... better.

By thrashing, I meant the 2010 points table. 142 points to 72. Can't call this year a thrashing yet since it hasn't finished. You just had to ask. :)

Oh, and very clever switching the X with a Z in my name. :up: Don't know how that changes anything, but here, have this for your effort:

http://www.techbusy.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/web_browser_cookie.gif

[Cooper_S]

So... with... a... possible... 475 points... available... Rosberg... beat... his... 41 year... old... teammate... who... had... not... driven... an... F1... car... for... 3 years... by... 70 points... yup... what... a... thrashing... indeed... Rosberg... will... be... one... of... the... F1... greats........ LOL


Don't know how that changes anything, but here, have this for your effort:

http://www.techbusy.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/web_browser_cookie.gif

Oh... Is... that... a... self... portrait... I'm... honoured.... Thank... You... Z...

[CaptainRaiden]

So... with... a... possible... 475 points... available... Rosberg... beat... his... 41 year... old... teammate... who... had... not... driven... an... F1... car... for... 3 years... by... 70 points... yup... what... a... thrashing... indeed... Rosberg... will... be... one... of... the... F1... greats........ LOL

Who the heck said Rosberg is one of the F1 greats? LOL. MS is getting beaten by an also-ran.


Oh... Is... that... a... self... portrait... I'm... honoured.... Thank... You... Z...

If you're into eating self portraits, sure, go ahead, might even cure your speech impediment. However if it's the period button on your cheap keyboard, you've gotta buy a new one. ;)

[steveaki13]

You've all got onto a subject way off the original which is Lewis and his comments.

This needs to be on the MS should he quit thread.

[CaptainRaiden]

You've all got onto a subject way off the original which is Lewis and his comments.

This needs to be on the MS should he quit thread.

I think it was only inevitable for MS to be dragged into this with his fans bashing Lewis for "dirty driving".

[Cooper_S]

You've all got onto a subject way off the original which is Lewis and his comments.

Oops... I came to this thread late and was only replying to comments already made by others... point taken.

[Firstgear]

There is good and bad to be taken from the comments Lewis made.

The Good - Lewis is able to talk freely about his concerns and frustrations without hiding behind all the corporate/sponsor robo-talk. Agree with him or not, it's refreshing that he is willing to be himself instead of hiding behind the PR curtain that most drivers are told to stay behind.

The Bad - Drivers that come out from behind the PR curtain and show some personality usually end up in NASCAR (JV, JPM, KR)

[steveaki13]

Oops... I came to this thread late and was only replying to comments already made by others... point taken.

Easily done.

I came to see what more people thought about Lewis and had to pass through a page of comments on MS. :eek:

[jens]

Regarding Hamilton and his emotions I think we may look at the wider background. It's never easy for a more experienced driver to see a younger driver emerging and starting to put him in shade. Latest one was, when Hamilton came and annoyed Alonso, who thought he may have a bit easier life after Schumacher's departure for a while. But now Hamilton has seen the emergence of Vettel and although he believes he can beat Seb in terms of driving talent, he probably doesn't feel easy about the prospect of Vettel reaching the status of a double WDC before him...

[Cooper_S]

But Lewis and Vettel are peers are they not?

Apart from webber winning, the next WDC is always going to be a double or triple WDC. I don't think Lewis thinks in terms of being a double WDC before Seb.

[CaptainRaiden]

But Lewis and Vettel are peers are they not?

Apart from webber winning, the next WDC is always going to be a double or triple WDC. I don't think Lewis thinks in terms of being a double WDC before Seb.

Unless he is absolutely obsessed with stats and figures.

[The Black Knight]

His first paragraph is very clear, unless you started watching F1 yesterday or have a problem reading long paragraphs.


"And if you think the targetting of Hamilton by the stewards for lying in Australia 09 was race related??"

How is this clear? It's not a proper sentence or question.

[tfp]

"And if you think the targetting of Hamilton by the stewards for lying in Australia 09 was race related??"

How is this clear? It's not a proper sentence or question.

What hapened in Aus 2009?

[SGWilko]

All this congecture about race; what if Lewis's grandmpther was Dutch. Sorry, just watching itv4 and enjoying Mel Brooks taking the p!ss out of racists and racism.

[CNR]

http://www.rocketnews.com/2011/05/hamilton-attacks-joke-stewards-2/

The Englishman’s comments could land him in trouble with F1′s governing body, the FIA, who may consider that contravene the rule saying competitors must not bring the sport into disrepute.

Disciplined For ‘Bringing A Sport Into Disrepute’ — A Framework For Judicial Review (Melbourne University Law Review)
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/MULR/2001/22.html

[555-04Q2]

WOW! 244 post about a tongue in cheek comment that Hamilton made. WOW!

Now if he had been white and said, "maybe it's because I'm white", would there have been 244 post?

[F1boat]

If he did said sorry, that's nice. :) Hopefully, he will be calmer in the next races and we won't see dangerous accidents caused by him or any other driver.
I am tempted to comment the hate-bash of X to MS, but I see that ioan did a good job :)

[The Black Knight]

What hapened in Aus 2009?

Hammy lied to the stewards. It's the English I'm on about.

[The Black Knight]

If its any consolation to the more sensitive amongst us who would probably brake down in tears if Lewis said we were stupid, he has apologised throguh his twitter. I'm sure he'll make the apology in person at the next race as it would be difficult to avoid.



A simple apology that will no doubt be criticized because it was done through twitter, but he really didn't need to do it did he? The dust has settled and perspectives have been analysed. I can think of a couple of incidents last season where drivers didn't apologise when they really should have, yet fans stuck by them.


Did he really write it like that? My head hurts from having to read that text speak.

Personally I don't believe he should have apologized at all, certainly not to Maldonado. Maldonado was at fault for that incident and can clearly be seen by watching it again.

[Arjuna]

To include di Resta in dangerous drivers list is a bit excessive. If we look at the incident closer it cost him his front wings, drive trough penalty awarded and put him out of point finisher contenders, it didn't cause any damage on Jamie's car. He is only a rookie, the incident would be a worthwhile lesson on how to drive fast but emotionally controlled and calm... He should have held his hands up for the incident nicely... :)

[The Black Knight]

To include di Resta in dangerous drivers list is a bit excessive. If we look at the incident closer it cost him his front wings, drive trough penalty awarded and put him out of point finisher contenders, it didn't cause any damage on Jamie's car. He is only a rookie, the incident would be a worthwhile lesson on how to drive fast but emotionally controlled and calm... He should have held his hands up for the incident nicely... :)
In a BBC interview afterwards Di Resta did hold his hands up afterwards and say that it was his fault and he was over-ambitious.