Race bans

[Daniel]

Surely after Hamilton's hamfisted efforts today the FIA needs to start looking at race bans. Hamilton whacked into Massa at the hairpin, backed everyone up into an accident which got the race red flagged and he's just pushed Maldonado off the track.

Let him watch from the pits for a race ffs.

[Dave B]

He was clearly a tit in a trace today, but I'm not sure it was bad enough for a ban.

[Hawkmoon]

He needs a talking to but a race ban would be too harsh.

[ioan]

Surely after Hamilton's hamfisted efforts today the FIA needs to start looking at race bans. Hamilton whacked into Massa at the hairpin, backed everyone up into an accident which got the race red flagged and he's just pushed Maldonado off the track.

Let him watch from the pits for a race ffs.

Agreed, he needs a ban to coll down.

[Daniel]

He was clearly a tit in a trace today, but I'm not sure it was bad enough for a ban.

But he was allowed to ruin how many people's races today?

I personally think that a message needs to be sent out. If you cause an accident or two you'll get a penalty, but if your driving is as bad as this you don't deserve to be in the car for the next race.

[N4D13]

He was clearly a tit in a trace today, but I'm not sure it was bad enough for a ban.
+1

If Schumacher didn't get a penalty for his dumbest-ever-manoeuvre on Barrichello on the Hungaroring, then I don't see why Hamilton should get one. A 20 second penalty looks likely, although he won't lose any positions over that.

[Zico]

A bad race from Hamilton no question, but no worse than Di-Resta Imo. As for backing up the cars to supposedly cause the accident.. I dont agree. How was that Hamilton's fault? He slows for a damaged car that is coming back across him and the car behind hits him.

[wedge]

Surely after Hamilton's hamfisted efforts today the FIA needs to start looking at race bans. Hamilton whacked into Massa at the hairpin, backed everyone up into an accident which got the race red flagged and he's just pushed Maldonado off the track.

Let him watch from the pits for a race ffs.

Daft

There have been much, much better contenders for a race ban like Schumi defending Rubens in Hungary last year (though I don't fully advocate that example)

[ShiftingGears]

He needs a talking to but a race ban would be too harsh.

Yep.

[Daniel]

Daft

There have been much, much better contenders for a race ban like Schumi defending Rubens in Hungary last year (though I don't fully advocate that example)

That was ONE bad move though.

[ioan]

But he was allowed to ruin how many people's races today?

I personally think that a message needs to be sent out. If you cause an accident or two you'll get a penalty, but if your driving is as bad as this you don't deserve to be in the car for the next race.

It would be fair to get a race ban for each case where he ended another driver's race, if he is deemed responsible for the accident.

[wedge]

That was ONE bad move though.

Wasn't his first time, either. Did it to his own brother in Nurburgring in 2003

[ioan]

I see everyone is already blaming it on Schumacher. Did I miss him and Rubens driving into each other last year, or it just didn't happen unlike today's crappy showing by Hamy?!

[Sonic]

But he was allowed to ruin how many people's races today?

I personally think that a message needs to be sent out. If you cause an accident or two you'll get a penalty, but if your driving is as bad as this you don't deserve to be in the car for the next race.

I'm with you bro. And not just Hamster. Too much bumper cars today.

[Ranger]

Wow. I'm glad some people here aren't stewards...

[Hawkmoon]

You can't blame Hamilton for the incident that brought out the red flag. They've just replayed the incident and Hamilton backed off because Sutil was going straight through the chicane in front of him. If Hamilton stays on the power he runs the risk of hitting the Force India. Hamilton did the only thing he could do and backed off. Unfortunately for us there were too many cars in the same place and we lost a great finish.

[Daniel]

You can't blame Hamilton for the incident that brought out the red flag. They've just replayed the incident and Hamilton backed off because Sutil was going straight through the chicane in front of him. If Hamilton stays on the power he runs the risk of hitting the Force India. Hamilton did the only thing he could do and backed off. Unfortunately for us there were too many cars in the same place and we lost a great finish.

Oh come on, Sutil was hardly so close to Hamilton that he needed to back off so much. Hamilton backed off to avoid a potential accident and into one which was almost 100% guaranteed.
http://oi51.tinypic.com/30ijsc2.jpg

[wedge]

Di Resta had a bad day. Should he get a race ban as well?

The only message a race ban will send is: "don't bother to attempt to overtake"

[Daniel]

I'm with you bro. And not just Hamster. Too much bumper cars today.

Which is not what we want. Unless we're going to see closed wheel racing in which case we could have a bit of argey bargey.

[ioan]

100% agreed, there was enough place to go round a very slow Sutil without the need to brake check the whole field inclusive the race leaders.

Looks like Hamy can't grow up.

[wedge]

Oh come on, Sutil was hardly so close to Hamilton that he needed to back off so much. Hamilton backed off to avoid a potential accident and into one which was almost 100% guaranteed.

So how is Hammy supposed to know whether Sutil would suddenly move back onto the racing line ie. in front of him or not?

[ioan]

So how is Hammy supposed to know whether Sutil would suddenly move back onto the racing line ie. in front of him or not?

Experience?! Common sense?! Why would car with a lacking tire go on the racing line?

The Hamy apologists are very funny (I am being kind here).

[Daniel]

So how is Hammy supposed to know whether Sutil would suddenly move back onto the racing line ie. in front of him or not?

He wasn't going to know. So you think this is justification for Lewis then causing an accident rather than giving it a little bit of gas and seeing what happened?

If you're driving on the motorway and someone's tailgating you and you see something happen in front do you then slam on the brakes 100% to avoid something which is a little distance off in the front?

[Daniel]

Di Resta had a bad day. Should he get a race ban as well?

The only message a race ban will send is: "don't bother to attempt to overtake"

there's a difference between ONE bad overtake and 3 incidents involving one driver......

[Dave B]

there's a difference between ONE bad overtake and 3 incidents involving one driver......

To be fair, Di Resta made two stupid moves...

[Hawkmoon]

A still image tells a different story than video. The gap that looks big in the still is much smaller when you're travelling at what, 100+ km/hour? Hamilton drove like a tit today but that incident was just bad luck.

[Bobby_Hamlin]

Sutil was sliding around on a right rear rim, at what point is that going to follow a predictable path? Can't see much defence for some of the other incidents but the haters are stretching it with that one (I am being kind here).

[ioan]

A still image tells a different story than video. The gap that looks big in the still is much smaller when you're travelling at what, 100+ km/hour? Hamilton drove like a tit today but that incident was just bad luck.

They are used to travel much faster than that, only that some make the right choice and Hamy made the wrong one at least 3 times today. I think that is telling a lot about his capabilities.

Just look at how Vettel, Alonso and Button all got through that mayhem unscathed because none of them is behaving like Hamilton.

[wedge]

He wasn't going to know. So you think this is justification for Lewis then causing an accident rather than giving it a little bit of gas and seeing what happened?

If you're driving on the motorway and someone's tailgating you and you see something happen in front do you then slam on the brakes 100% to avoid something which is a little distance off in the front?

rather subjective, don't you think?

Tailgater shouldn't be tailgating in the first place. If sheet happens, then that's their problem, IMHO.

Racing is a different matter entirely.

[Daniel]

To be fair, Di Resta made two stupid moves...

Well the other one was only a touch from behind. Endplates will always get taken off :)

[wedge]

Experience?! Common sense?! Why would car with a lacking tire go on the racing line?

The Hamy apologists are very funny (I am being kind here).

Stupidity, it does happen, right?

Vettel stupidly tried to defend from Kubica with shot tyres in Australia in 2009

[ioan]

Sutil was sliding around on a right rear rim, at what point is that going to follow a predictable path? Can't see much defence for some of the other incidents but the haters are stretching it with that one (I am being kind here).

Sutil was driving straight at that moment and 2 car lengths at least ahead of Hamilton and out of the racing line. Slamming on the breaks was very bad judgement.

[ioan]

Stupidity, it does happen, right?

Vettel stupidly tried to defend from Kubica with shot tyres in Australia in 2009


Sure it happens, but 3 times in one race?! Maybe you can see the difference between the two cases, or maybe not?! :\

[AndyL]

He wasn't going to know. So you think this is justification for Lewis then causing an accident rather than giving it a little bit of gas and seeing what happened?

If you're driving on the motorway and someone's tailgating you and you see something happen in front do you then slam on the brakes 100% to avoid something which is a little distance off in the front?

Then the accident would clearly be the fault of the guy behind. Any insurance company would agree! Racing is not the same as driving on the motorway, but nevertheless I'm finding your argument quite bizarre. You admit Hamilton slowed to avoid a potential accident, but somehow that was the wrong thing to do?

[Daniel]

rather subjective, don't you think?

Tailgater shouldn't be tailgating in the first place. If sheet happens, then that's their problem, IMHO.

Racing is a different matter entirely.

You're trying to have your cake and eat it here. In the chat you were talking about the 2 second rule on the motorway and suddenly now any analogies involving driving on the road are a different matter.


Anyone on the road or track who risks an accident which is 100% certain to avoid what is merely a potential accident should sit out the next race.

[Daniel]

Then the accident would clearly be the fault of the guy behind. Any insurance company would agree! Racing is not the same as driving on the motorway, but nevertheless I'm finding your argument quite bizarre. You admit Hamilton slowed to avoid a potential accident, but somehow that was the wrong thing to do?

Of course the guy tailgating is at fault. But if you choose not to avoid the 100% certainn accident merely to avoid a possible one in front then you're a bit stupid.

[Mark]

Hamilton talking about being targeted because he's black. He was joking, but still.

[BDunnell]

That was ONE bad move though.

Plus all the others over the years, some might argue.

[spudrsca]

I don't think he was slamming the breaks.
It's just that on this corner he doesn't take the same line as the others.
On a normal lap, he straightened the car on the apex of the second part of the corner but there he didn't because he saw Sutil.

[BDunnell]

It would be fair to get a race ban for each case where he ended another driver's race, if he is deemed responsible for the accident.

Which would conveniently mean that Schumacher wouldn't have been penalised for Hungary last year. Funny you should come up with this idea after that very incident was mentioned...

[Daniel]

Plus all the others over the years, some might argue.

But should we be considering all the moves someone has done over the years? I think we should look at the race and perhaps the last few races at most.

[ioan]

Oh well, the usual suspects turned it alreadt into an MS bashfest.

Food fro thought: MS had as many crashes with other drivers in one decade as Lewis is having in one race! :)
One of them went on to be a 7 times F1 champion the other one will probably get 2 if lucky.

Still let's bash the most successful one for everything in order to clean up the crappy one. People! :rolleyes:

[Bagwan]

Hamilton was not brake checking anyone .
He lifted slightly to see where Sutil was heading .

With so few laps left , that's smart , not stupid .

As Sutil was to the right , Petrov should also have been able to see him .
Given Sutil ended up with Petrov into him , after crossing the track , Lewis did ok there .

He deserves donkey .
But , not for that one .


Recently , the FIA siad that reprimands will count up to positions lost , after three fouls add up .


Perhaps the FIA should accumulate all sanctions , and ban for a race after three add up ?

[ioan]

But should we be considering all the moves someone has done over the years? I think we should look at the race and perhaps the last few races at most.

Even over the years there are not that many as the Hmailton apologists are trying to make it look like.

It would be fairer to compare Lewis to Yuji Ide if we are at it.

[wedge]

Your tailgating analogy is not good at all!

It's a racing incident. Similar things happen in NASCAR, the big one occurs on the small half milers from similar incidents - trying to avoid one wreck you end up causing a huge wreck.

[ioan]

Hamilton was not brake checking anyone .
He lifted slightly to see where Sutil was heading .

Alguersuari was interviewed and said that Hamy breaked (OK he said broke) very hard and he did the same but couldn't avoid him.

Plus in F1 lifting will have a braking effect due to the huge drag of the cars.

[BDunnell]

Stupidity, it does happen, right?

I think there is a certain breed of F1 'fan' (again, I make the distinction between that word and 'enthusiast') who forgets that collisions are, sadly, sometimes a consequence of racing. They also forget that there is a fine line between a great move being pulled off and a collision resulting from the attempt to pass.

[wedge]

Alguersuari was interviewed and said that Hamy breaked (OK he said broke) very hard and he did the same but couldn't avoid him.

Plus in F1 lifting will have a braking effect due to the huge drag of the cars.

But it wasn't out of malice, which is what brake checking is. It was an unfortunate chain reaction of events when you have a train of cars.

[Daniel]

Hamilton was not brake checking anyone .
He lifted slightly to see where Sutil was heading .

With so few laps left , that's smart , not stupid .

As Sutil was to the right , Petrov should also have been able to see him .
Given Sutil ended up with Petrov into him , after crossing the track , Lewis did ok there .

He deserves donkey .
But , not for that one .


Recently , the FIA siad that reprimands will count up to positions lost , after three fouls add up .


Perhaps the FIA should accumulate all sanctions , and ban for a race after three add up ?
I never said it was a brake check, but everyone knows if you lift off in an F1 it's more than equivalent to full braking in a road car. I think he lifted off too much. Certainly not a malicious accident on his part, but extremely careless.

[Daniel]

I think there is a certain breed of F1 'fan' (again, I make the distinction between that word and 'enthusiast') who forgets that collisions are, sadly, sometimes a consequence of racing. They also forget that there is a fine line between a great move being pulled off and a collision resulting from the attempt to pass.

and then there's a certain type of F1 fan who sees every accident as something that happens and should be allowed to happen.

[BDunnell]

But should we be considering all the moves someone has done over the years? I think we should look at the race and perhaps the last few races at most.

Of course. But I would never disagree with those who say that certain dubious tactics have become acceptable over the years as a result of a few drivers being seen to get away with them. This goes for many forms of motorsport, of course.

I still say that too many modern F1 'fans', i.e. the sort who have come to the sport recently, have little or no historical perspective and take pleasure in the misfortune of those teams or drivers they dislike, seem not to understand the concept of racing and that, sometimes, incidents occur as a result.

[wedge]

I think there is a certain breed of F1 'fan' (again, I make the distinction between that word and 'enthusiast') who forgets that collisions are, sadly, sometimes a consequence of racing. They also forget that there is a fine line between a great move being pulled off and a collision resulting from the attempt to pass.

I must admit I am stupid myself. 'stupidity' was the wrong choice of word to describe what you and I should have described.

[BDunnell]

and then there's a certain type of F1 fan who sees every accident as something that happens and should be allowed to happen.

Not every accident. I don't think you would find any enthusiastic F1 watcher who would ever condone any accident. And don't let's go down that absurd road whereby those of us who accept the fact that there will be incidents and accidents are accused of wanting them to happen, because I find that offensive in the extreme.

[Zico]

The slo-mo replay armchair Stewards right enough.. From his perspective how was Lewis meant to know it was only a tyre off Sutils car and no other damage, ie no steering where Sutil could have ended up going anywhere, (thinking back to the incident with Schumacher hitting Hill after damaging his steering to win the WDC all these years ago).

Im no Hamilton apologist, he had a stinker of a race today and was unable/unwilling to take the blame for the Massa collision when it was clearly his fault which does make him a bit of a tit Imo, but why no mention of banning di-resta?

It has become so predictable.. it's the same old faces wanting to crucify him after any incident.

[ioan]

But it wasn't out of malice, which is what brake checking is. It was an unfortunate chain reaction of events when you have a train of cars.

I agree it wasn't out of malice.

[ioan]

I think there is a certain breed of F1 'fan' (again, I make the distinction between that word and 'enthusiast') who forgets that collisions are, sadly, sometimes a consequence of racing. They also forget that there is a fine line between a great move being pulled off and a collision resulting from the attempt to pass.

Once a race it's an accident, several times in one race it is called careless and dangerous crap.

[ioan]

The slo-mo replay armchair Stewards right enough.. From his perspective how was Lewis meant to know it was only a tyre off Sutils car and no other damage, ie no steering where Sutil could have ended up going anywhere, (thinking back to the incident with Schumacher hitting Hill after damaging his steering to win the WDC all these years ago).

Im no Hamilton apologist, he had a stinker of a race today and was unable/unwilling to take the blame for the Massa collision when it was clearly his fault which does make him a bit of a tit Imo, but why no mention of banning di-resta?

It has become so predictable.. it's the same old faces wanting to crucify him after any incident.

What about his crashing into Maldonado? Already forgot that one too?

[Azumanga Davo]

I too add my name to the list of unhappy people. I would whack Hamilton with the "stick of stupid" today. It's about the size of a 2 by 4 as well...

[Zico]

What about his crashing into Maldonado? Already forgot that one too?

No..

[Bagwan]

But it wasn't out of malice, which is what brake checking is. It was an unfortunate chain reaction of events when you have a train of cars.

Yes , Mr. President , you are correct , sir .
They got stuck in the bellows of the concertina .

[Daniel]

The slo-mo replay armchair Stewards right enough.. From his perspective how was Lewis meant to know it was only a tyre off Sutils car and no other damage, ie no steering where Sutil could have ended up going anywhere, (thinking back to the incident with Schumacher hitting Hill after damaging his steering to win the WDC all these years ago).

Im no Hamilton apologist, he had a stinker of a race today and was unable/unwilling to take the blame for the Massa collision when it was clearly his fault which does make him a bit of a tit Imo, but why no mention of banning di-resta?

It has become so predictable.. it's the same old faces wanting to crucify him after any incident.

Rubbish. I've made excuses for Lewis when he's made mistakes, I think he drove an extremely poor weekend with no one else but him to blame and he's blamed EVERYONE else.

[Malbec]

Alguersuari was interviewed and said that Hamy breaked (OK he said broke) very hard and he did the same but couldn't avoid him.

Algesuari also carefully explained to the BBC and anyone else who would listen after going out in Q1 that he had deliberately hit Kobayashi's Sauber to teach him a lesson because he felt he hadn't gone out of the way quickly enough.

If anyone should face a race ban surely Algesuari deserves it. I'm surprised this incident didn't get more attention through the weekend.

[Daniel]

Algesuari also carefully explained to the BBC and anyone else who would listen after going out in Q1 that he had deliberately hit Kobayashi's Sauber to teach him a lesson because he felt he hadn't gone out of the way quickly enough.

If anyone should face a race ban surely Algesuari deserves it. I'm surprised this incident didn't get more attention through the weekend.

I didn't see/hear that. If true then he deserves a ban for a few races. I never felt Kobayashi was at fault in that incident anyway. I think F1 has created an environment where drivers feel comfortable in hitting others because they can get away with it. If some drivers were getting banned that sure as hell wouldn't happen. We want to see clean racing, sure there are going to be a few endplates that get knocked off and so on, but it happens far too often IMHO.

I still think Hamilton's reaction in that situation was very unlike that of a former champion. We've seen drivers keep their foot in somewhat and avoid accidents by a few cm and Hamilton was miles from Sutil's accident and chose to cause his own. If we had proper red flag rules he wouldn't have been in the race after that.

[ioan]

Algesuari also carefully explained to the BBC and anyone else who would listen after going out in Q1 that he had deliberately hit Kobayashi's Sauber to teach him a lesson because he felt he hadn't gone out of the way quickly enough.

If anyone should face a race ban surely Algesuari deserves it. I'm surprised this incident didn't get more attention through the weekend.

I didn't know that, it is really appalling.

[Malbec]

There we are

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEoHNGEhkZw

[go mads]

oh well, the usual suspects turned it alreadt into an ms bashfest.

Food fro thought: Ms had as many crashes with other drivers in one decade as lewis is having in one race! :)
one of them went on to be a 7 times f1 champion the other one will probably get 2 if lucky.

Still let's bash the most successful one for everything in order to clean up the crappy one. People! :rolleyes:
a driving standard lecture from a michael schumacher fan. Great!!!!

[F1boat]

He needs a talking to but a race ban would be too harsh.

I think so, too. But maybe he deserved a grid-penalty for Montreal.

[The Black Knight]

Algesuari also carefully explained to the BBC and anyone else who would listen after going out in Q1 that he had deliberately hit Kobayashi's Sauber to teach him a lesson because he felt he hadn't gone out of the way quickly enough.

If anyone should face a race ban surely Algesuari deserves it. I'm surprised this incident didn't get more attention through the weekend.

I can understand his frustration but hitting a car in the rear is never the answer.

[steveaki13]

Algesuari also carefully explained to the BBC and anyone else who would listen after going out in Q1 that he had deliberately hit Kobayashi's Sauber to teach him a lesson because he felt he hadn't gone out of the way quickly enough.

If anyone should face a race ban surely Algesuari deserves it. I'm surprised this incident didn't get more attention through the weekend.

This is not acceptable, to actually hit another driver on purpose at whatever speed is completely disgraceful.

Just beacuse it was at 40mph he should not escape punishment. Afterall if he hit Kobayashi on purpose at Monza at 150mph, I'm sure he would be banned for a long time.

Alguersuari is really beggining to lose the fight for his F1 seat. More and more I can see Ricciardo getting his seat by Silverstone.

[Rollo]

Alguersuari was interviewed and said that Hamy breaked (OK he said broke) very hard and he did the same but couldn't avoid him.

Alguersuari was in the air when he hit Hamilton. Alguersuari skipped over the rumble strip. Again, you need to check the video.

[Hitnrun]

Wow! You really struggle with concept of facts don't you?

Off the top of my head since his "come back" (I'll be kind, since highlighting his full career low lights would be like shooting fish in a barrel)
Your hero has had incidents at
Hungary 2010 ( on Barrichello)
Canada 2010 (on Massa)
Canada 2010 (on Kubica)
Monaco 2010 (on Alonso)
Monaco 2011 (on Hamilton)
Abu Dhabi 2011 (collected Liuzzi)
Turkey 2011 (on Petrov)
Turkey 2011 (on Sutil)
Turkey 2011(squeezed Kobayashi on to the grass)

Just for my own curiosity could you tell me how long on average it takes you to cognitively re-frame real world events to fit your interior monologue?

"usual suspects" "bashing" oh ioan... glass houses? stones?http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/member.php?81138-ioan

[Cooper_S]

fantastic first post... I see a great future for you as a forumn WUM.

Did you not think a hello first would be better.

[The Black Knight]

fantastic first post... I see a great future for you as a forumn WUM.

Did you not think a hello first would be better.

I'm pretty sure he posted that in the wrong thread as well.

[steveaki13]

I'm pretty sure he posted that in the wrong thread as well.

It was great. I assume its in here because he is pointing out the incidents the Schumacher has had, that he feels could be worthy of race bans.

He has a good memory, I can't recall some of those.

I assume thats Abu Dhabi in 2010, as we haven't been there this year.

[The Black Knight]

It was great. I assume its in here because he is pointing out the incidents the Schumacher has had, that he feels could be worthy of race bans.

He has a good memory, I can't recall some of those.

I assume thats Abu Dhabi in 2010, as we haven't been there this year.

I know, tis amazing he doesn't blame Schumacher for holding up Hamilton for a few laps while Hamilton tried to pass him in China 2010 with a memory like that.

[Cooper_S]

My point was not about his memory... (selective as it is) but rather that it is his maiden post on the forum... his views are as valid as anyones but a simple hello first would have been welcome... There is an expression that says Start as you mean to go on... we shall see.

[steveaki13]

My point was not about his memory... (selective as it is) but rather that it is his maiden post on the forum... his views are as valid as anyones but a simple hello first would have been welcome... There is an expression that says Start as you mean to go on... we shall see.

Good point

[airshifter]

Listen.... another Waaaaaaambulance is coming to a thread near you!

Lewis was punished for his bonehead moves, the same as other drivers that pulled the same bonehead moves.

As for the accident racing incident and nothing more. A still frame taken a split second before the one Daniel is posting shows Sutils car at a completely different angle, pointing right back into the track. Lewis could be expected to predict the future.

[Zico]

Rubbish. I've made excuses for Lewis when he's made mistakes, I think he drove an extremely poor weekend with no one else but him to blame and he's blamed EVERYONE else.

Rubbish in your opinion.. and maybe a few more predictable other forum members, but hey we are all entitled to them.
Lewis had a bad race no question, but blaming him for the crash that red flagged the race when it wasn't his fault and calling for a race ban is taking it too far.

The stewards probably have more race experience than all of the forum members put together and they didn't see it neccesary to even investigate that particular incident which says it all imo. but maybe you should do a poll on whether it was Hamiltons fault and another on whether he should be banned.. then accept the poll results.

[Rollo]

The stewards probably have more race experience than all of the forum members put together and they didn't see it neccesary to even investigate that particular incident which says it all imo. but maybe you should do a poll on whether it was Hamiltons fault and another on whether he should be banned.. then accept the poll results.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/30052011/66/petrov-ll-fine-montreal.html
"I saw the Force India go wide because I think he touched the wall and then he had a puncture," Petrov recalled. "Then Alguersuari, I don't know why he overtook me because he was being lapped.

"Then I think Alguersuari started to brake because Lewis started to brake - he tried to avoid the accident, he braked quite hard and Alguersuari tried to do the same. But he touched Lewis's tyre and went flying a little bit. I started to brake, braked as hard as I could, but it was maybe too late. In this situation you cannot do anything. So I hit the wall."


Petrov seems to be blaming Sutil for going wide and Alguersuari for trying to overtake whilst being a lap down. Are we to assume that Petrov thinks that Alguersuari shouldn't have been there in the first place?

Petrov's opinion probably counts more than all of the forum members put together, and he's blaming Alguersuari.

[Cooper_S]

ahh but he is concused... :p

[555-04Q2]

fantastic first post... I see a great future for you as a forumn WUM.

Did you not think a hello first would be better.

:laugh: Nail. Head. :laugh:

[F1boat]

Does the situation with Hamilton reminds you of the problem with Simoncelli in Moto GP?

[Daniel]

Does the situation with Hamilton reminds you of the problem with Simoncelli in Moto GP?

In terms of?

[CaptainRaiden]

Does the situation with Hamilton reminds you of the problem with Simoncelli in Moto GP?

I think you put Hamilton instead of Massa. You're welcome. :)

Besides, I think Lewis or Simoncelli still have a lot of people to punt off track, before they come anywhere near Schumacher though.

[F1boat]

I think you put Hamilton instead of Massa. You're welcome. :)

Besides, I think Lewis or Simoncelli still have a lot of people to punt off track, before they come anywhere near Schumacher though.

What has Michael Schumacher to do with the thread? Are you so traumatized by his championships and victories?
Daniel, my point is that there seems to me a problem with dangerous competitor in both F1 (Lewis) and in Moto GP (Simoncelli). Both competitors insist that they are innocent, their rivals obviously disagree and the stewards give a relatively small penalty (pass trough the pitlane). In the same time the victims of their aggression end worse - Massa retired and Pedrosa was badly injured. I am curious how both cases will develop and I'd be also interested to see similar stories from other motorsports. I remember that there were a very aggressive driver in NASCAR recently, but I'm unsure who he was...

[CaptainRaiden]

What has Michael Schumacher to do with the thread? Are you so traumatized by his championships and victories?

Fans of Schumacher first of all shouldn't even be in the same thread blaming another driver for "dirty driving." That's the point. Stinks of double standards.


Daniel, my point is that there seems to me a problem with dangerous competitor in both F1 (Lewis) and in Moto GP (Simoncelli). Both competitors insist that they are innocent, their rivals obviously disagree and the stewards give a relatively small penalty (pass trough the pitlane). In the same time the victims of their aggression end worse - Massa retired and Pedrosa was badly injured. I am curious how both cases will develop and I'd be also interested to see similar stories from other motorsports. I remember that there were a very aggressive driver in NASCAR recently, but I'm unsure who he was...

Please stop exaggerating and spewing biased, baseless crap. The way you're describing Lewis' driving, it makes Schumacher look like the devil and Senna his helper. :rolleyes:

[555-04Q2]

Fans of Schumacher first of all shouldn't even be in the same thread blaming another driver for "dirty driving." That's the point. Stinks of double standards.



Please stop exaggerating and spewing biased, baseless crap. The way you're describing Lewis' driving, it makes Schumacher look like the devil and Senna his helper. :rolleyes:

The world revolves around and was built on double standards.

[Garry Walker]

It would be fair to get a race ban for each case where he ended another driver's race, if he is deemed responsible for the accident.

Rapunzel would have been banned many a time then.


100% agreed, there was enough place to go round a very slow Sutil without the need to brake check the whole field inclusive the race leaders.

Looks like Hamy can't grow up. Looks like this forum has been infested with zombies. Hamilton did nothing wrong in the Sutil case. If he had kept his speed up, but Sutil had moved a little differently and Hamilton had crashed into him, you all would be attacking him like crazy. Hamilton had no other option.


Experience?! Common sense?! Why would car with a lacking tire go on the racing line?Hmm, I do wonder how controlling a car with one tyre missing is, oh yes, it is quite effin hard. If you want to blame someone here, blame stupid Sutil, looks like he was probably thinking of attacking someone with a glass.


The Hamy apologists are very funny (I am being kind here).
The people bashing him for sutil`s stupidity are imbeciles ( I am being kind here)



I think there is a certain breed of F1 'fan' (again, I make the distinction between that word and 'enthusiast') who forgets that collisions are, sadly, sometimes a consequence of racing. They also forget that there is a fine line between a great move being pulled off and a collision resulting from the attempt to pass.Yes.
I think some people think that this is like racing on the computer, where you just load the game again if you crash. Sadly, F1 doesnt work this way. To make it funnier, those same people would cry and bitch like hell if a driver played it too conservatively and didnt go for an overtaking opportunity.


I never said it was a brake check, but everyone knows if you lift off in an F1 it's more than equivalent to full braking in a road car. I think he lifted off too much. Certainly not a malicious accident on his part, but extremely careless. How was he to know what Sutil was going to do with his damaged car? If he had crashed into Sutil you all would be demanding his ban, now he avoided crashing into Sutil, but this option was equally as bad, because of guys behind him. He really didnt have a good option in this case.

[Mia 01]

Felipe has aske for a race ban for Lewis

[Daniel]

Felipe has aske for a race ban for Lewis

Ummm link?

[Dave B]

Felipe has aske for a race ban for Lewis

He can "ask" for what he likes, but it's not up to him.

[Daniel]

He can "ask" for what he likes, but it's not up to him.

I've found nothing on any site to suggest he did ask either....

[SGWilko]

I've found nothing on any site to suggest he did ask either....

Must be the clouds in Mia's eyes Daniel...... :p

[The Black Knight]

Felipe has aske for a race ban for Lewis

Felipe asked for further penalties for Hamilton.

"I think he needs to be penalised again, and in a good way - otherwise he doesn't learn," he said. "They [the FIA] need to think about something for him, or he will not learn."

[SGWilko]

Felipe asked for further penalties for Hamilton.

"I think he needs to be penalised again, and in a good way - otherwise he doesn't learn," he said. "They [the FIA] need to think about something for him, or he will not learn."

How do you penalise someone in a good way?

A public whipping from all of the Pussycat Dolls? ;)

[Daniel]

Felipe asked for further penalties for Hamilton.

"I think he needs to be penalised again, and in a good way - otherwise he doesn't learn," he said. "They [the FIA] need to think about something for him, or he will not learn."

Well lets be honest, he's one of the most penalised drivers. Either you agree that he offends the most or that the FIA is racist. Your choice.

[The Black Knight]

How do you penalise someone in a good way?

A public whipping from all of the Pussycat Dolls? ;)

lol He can do that in private, the jammy git :p

[The Black Knight]

Well lets be honest, he's one of the most penalised drivers. Either you agree that he offends the most or that the FIA is racist. Your choice.

He's the most controversial driver because he's the most aggressive. This is nothing new to the sport. There have been quite a number of drivers like him in the past.

[I am evil Homer]

And unlike Felipe is a world champion....sad Massa can't drive properly on the marbles but that was all his own doing.

[Daniel]

He's the most controversial driver because he's the most aggressive. This is nothing new to the sport. There have been quite a number of drivers like him in the past.

Stop twisting my words. I said PENALISED driver, not controversial, PENALISED.

Either the FIA are racist or he makes a lot of poor decisions.

[The Black Knight]

Stop twisting my words. I said PENALISED driver, not controversial, PENALISED.

Either the FIA are racist or he makes a lot of poor decisions.

Lewis can make the odd poor decision from time to time. Malaysia this year he weaved in front of Alonso which he said he knew he would get a reprimand for or Monza last year for example.

So yeah, there are two examples of bad decisions. Nobody is perfect :) Regards the FIA, I don't fully undertstand their beef with him. It seems to me that the FIA have always tried to tone down aggressive drivers. Maybe it's a safety thing. More likely it's because they don't and have never figured out themselves where the line is between what is and isn't acceptable as can be seen by the incredible inconsistency they show. The one consistency I see from them, they penalise aggressive drivers a lot including Hammy :)

[Mia 01]

The stewards- FIA - careless driving -move out of my way - penalties - race bans - the talk, it will go on. It´s sad in many ways.

[steveaki13]

I haven't heard anything about Massa wanting Lewis Penalised, and although they had contact, the eventual error into the wall was all Massa's fault.

Once in the dangerous place of outside in the tunnell he should have known he was heading for the wall.

[Zico]

I've found nothing on any site to suggest he did ask either....

I think he may be refering to Massa asking for "further penalties" whatever that may be..

autosport.com - F1 News: Massa: More penalties for Hamilton (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91860)

[steveaki13]

I think Race Bans have to be reserved for serious incidents or very dangerous moves. Although it was clumsy and Lewis should have been responsible for his moves, I don't think he would be deserving of a race ban.

[Mia 01]

Banned for six races are not fair.