Fiat 500 advice and info?

[AlrightTreacle?]

I've been looking at buying a Fiat 500. I have been searching the forums for some advice and info on them but can't find anyone mentionging the 500 at all on this forum. I thought that a forum with all these members would at least have 1 member with a 500 or knows something about them but no I can't find anything at all which is a shame. :(

[Brown, Jon Brow]

NO.

I can tell you for sure that nobody on this forum owns a Fiat 500.

You could ask if anyone has a new Ford KA or Fiat Panda as they are the same car.

[A.F.F.]

Please ban Daniel. Quickly! :p :

[schmenke]

I've been looking at buying a Fiat 500. I have been searching the forums for some advice and info on them but can't find anyone mentionging the 500 at all on this forum. I thought that a forum with all these members would at least have 1 member with a 500 or knows something about them but no I can't find anything at all which is a shame. :(

Tsk, shame on you for sullying this fine forum with such vile questions. 500 owners are loathed around here and all related discussions are taboo.
I suggest you seek answers to your foul query on some other less honourable forum.... hmph!


:vader:

[Daniel]

Ummmm are you serious? :p

If you're being sarcastic then you smell, if you're being sarcastic then what do you want to know and I'll be more than happy to fill you in ;)

and yes we do own one :)

P.S What do you want to know?

[Daniel]

Oi :p

[Mark]

I've been looking at buying a Fiat 500. I have been searching the forums for some advice and info on them but can't find anyone mentionging the 500 at all on this forum. I thought that a forum with all these members would at least have 1 member with a 500 or knows something about them but no I can't find anything at all which is a shame. :(

Stick to taking the tube! :laugh:

[Daniel]

Stick to taking the tube! :laugh:

Well at least a 500 will be more fuel efficient, lighter on tyres and better looking than your dismal Fester ;)

[Mark in Oshawa]

Figures...a guy searches high and low for a 500 owner...and comes here. No...we don't know one....well....we sorta know one....well alright..he is a good guy but counts his MPG all the time...and I think other than Subaru's and Pugs, he has denied the existence of any other car ever built..but he is an alright chap....good lord....did this guy hit pay dirt or what!!??

[GridGirl]

Well at least a 500 will be more fuel efficient, lighter on tyres and better looking than your dismal Fester ;)

I wouldn't say better looking. I suppose two out of three ain't bad. :p

[Daniel]

I wouldn't say better looking. I suppose two out of three ain't bad. :p

But with all due respect I think most people would disagree with you on that one. But again matter of taste and all that :)

[pino]

I wouldn't say better looking. I suppose two out of three ain't bad. :p

Ok then name a car with a better front looking, and don't you dare say the Ka... or that little Toyota :p :

[Daniel]

Ok then name a car with a better front looking...and don't you dare say the Ka...or that little Toyota :p :

Finally a man with taste has arrived :up:

[GridGirl]

I don't really like the looks of the 500. The KA built on the same platform looks much better than the 500. It's only a matter of opinion though. In other news I saw on old school 500 in South Clapham earlier this week. :)

[Daniel]

Well anyhoo, while people are being a bit strange.

I'll try to actually help.

At present there are 3 different trim levels and 4 different engines plus a few "limited" editions.

You have a 69bhp 1.2 8v petrol (what we've got), a 100bhp 1.4 16v petrol, the 85 0.9 litre twinair turbo and a 95bhp 1.3 diesel.

Then in terms of spec level you have the base model pop and the lounge and sport which sit beside each other.

The lounge has the following over the pop. Chrome trims on the bumpers and along the base of the side windows, stainless steel exhaust pipe, Blue&Me (bluetooth + USB MP3 player), fixed glass roof, split folding rear seats, air conditioning, leather steering wheel, body coloured heated mirrors and alloy wheels.

The sport has alloy wheels, perforated leather wheel, blue&me, foglights, body coloured heated mirrors, stainless exhaust pipe, air conditioning, tinted windows, part fake leather sports seats and a rear spoiler.

The sport spec is due to be phased out (I think you might not even be able to order it anymore) and replaced by a twinair spec which is about the same but with dark wheels.

The 1.4 has stiffer suspension than the rest and disc brakes all round and traction control+ESP as standard.

The 500 was European Car of the year back in 2008, was one of the least depreciating cars last year, has been selling solidly since launch so discounts of 500 are about as good as it gets, it's based on the Fiat Panda which is widely regarded to be one of the most reliable small cars on the market today, at the height of scrappage it was in the top 10 sellers which when you consider how many cars are on sale is quite an achievement.

I find it a little funny that people are feeling the need to talk down about a car because of their perceptions when the marketplace thinks otherwise but hey whatever.

I do like other cars Mark in Oshawa, but you can't exactly extol the virtues of other cars when you don't get to drive them now can you. Anyone want to hear whether a Peugeot Boxer van is better than a Peugeot Partner van? Thought not!

Which of these interiors looks better?
http://www.peyeimages.com/cars/images/ford-fiesta-interior/ford-fiesta-interior-picture-106359.jpg
http://newcarcollections.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/2012-Fiat-500-Sport-Interior-View.jpg

I can tell you which one 90% of people in the real world will pick :)

To drive, the car is very comfortable and well laid out, the gearshift is in a great position. It's comfortable to drive, the suspension isn't up there with other manufacturers to be fair but it's not unbearable.

In terms of economy the diesel is the best, then the 1.2, then the twinair and then the 1.4. In terms of running costs I'd say that the 1.2 is the best and the 1.4 last. The diesel can require more frequent oil changes as it has a Diesel Particulate Filter and of course diesel if more expensive so it's not the cheapest to run. The Twinair has only been out a few months and doesn't seem to be doing much better than the 1.2 in terms of economy at present so is more expensive to run than the figures might suggest. I haggled and my first service was £130 and that was for a full service, not just oil.

As a car to drive distances it's also alright. We drove all the way from Calais to Chamonix in the Alps in a day and the car averaged about 47mpg cruising at between 80 and 90mph over ~560 miles. If you were to be doing a lot of motorway driving I'd probably get something other than the 1.2 if I'm honest as you're very much running out of breath when you're at 90.

Here's a picture of our 500 in Turin last summer. It's a 1.2 lounge with 16" multispoke wheels, red leather and side rubbing strips.
http://oi54.tinypic.com/f20xm9.jpg

Buy one, you won't regret it :up:

[MrJan]

Italians are known for a lack of style, therefore you can't trust anything that Pino says :p :

[pino]

Italians are known for a lack of style, therefore you can't trust anything that Pino says :p :

That's why my fave car of all times is the Stratos ;)

[Daniel]

I don't really like the looks of the 500. The KA built on the same platform looks much better than the 500. It's only a matter of opinion though. In other news I saw on old school 500 in South Clapham earlier this week. :)

Fair enough, but like I said, if you ask the person on the street most will say the 500. A quick look on the road will show more 500's on the road than Ka's despite the 500 being a good deal more expensive for the same amount of kit. If I'm honest I thought the model of Fiesta that you've got was alright in terms of looks, the new model is not as good looking and the interior is hideous.

Can we at least agree that this is horrid? :D

http://500bygucci.com/500bygucci_eng.php#gallery

[MrJan]

That's why my fave car of all times is the Stratos ;)

Little known fact, Bertone was from Luton :D

[MrJan]

Fair enough, but like I said, if you ask the person on the street most will say the 500. A quick look on the road will show more 500's on the road than Ka's despite the 500 being a good deal more expensive for the same amount of kit. If I'm honest I thought the model of Fiesta that you've got was alright in terms of looks, the new model is not as good looking and the interior is hideous.

Can we at least agree that this is horrid? :D

http://500bygucci.com/500bygucci_eng.php#gallery

Aah but from some angles the 500 in silhouette can look like a Micra, which is bad.

[pino]

Little known fact, Bertone was from Luton :D

Same as Pininfarina, Giugiaro, Da Silva etc.. :p :

[GridGirl]

While I don't like the looks of the 500 I must say that I do rather quite like the alloy wheels of the moron that owns the Arbath in my street. :)

[pino]

While I don't like the looks of the 500 I must say that I do rather quite like the alloy wheels of the moron that owns the Arbath in my street. :)

Have a look a the 500 Abarth then ;)

[Daniel]

Aah but from some angles the 500 in silhouette can look like a Micra, which is bad.

but the Micra was styled on the original 500 so what are they going to make the 500 look like? The original Micra? :p That's like someone making a car that looks like a Stratos and then criticising Lanica for making something that looks a little like the copy of the Stratos.

Whilst the 500 does look like the Micra, it's a far more successful modern copy of the original 500 ;) The interior of the Micra is extremely dull and not particularly nice yet the 500 is a very very nice place to be.

[Daniel]

There's even a £35,000 one if you want
http://www.zercustoms.com/news/images/Fiat/Fiat-500-Abarth-695-Tributo-Ferrari-1.jpg

http://pistonheads.com/sales/2750088.htm

Personally I'm not a fan as I think it cheapens both the Abarth and Ferrari brands but they're selling and I don't see many other manufacturers selling supermini's for 35k so it must have something going for it.

[Robinho]

thats a 500 i could get on board with.

[Daniel]

thats a 500 i could get on board with.

I would quite like it's Brembo's and the Koni's that it rides on. Engine and box would be nice too :D

[pino]

There's even a £35,000 one if you want
http://www.zercustoms.com/news/images/Fiat/Fiat-500-Abarth-695-Tributo-Ferrari-1.jpg

http://pistonheads.com/sales/2750088.htm

Personally I'm not a fan as I think it cheapens both the Abarth and Ferrari brands but they're selling and I don't see many other manufacturers selling supermini's for 35k so it must have something going for it.

I just love it :D

[Daniel]

I just love it :D

You would though! You Italians have no style :p

[Mark]

Which of these interiors looks better?


Since I don't fancy driving around in a 1950's american diner, I'll take the first one thanks :p

[pino]

Since I don't fancy driving around in a 1950's american diner, I'll take the first one thanks :p

That's what I expected from you :s :p :

[Daniel]

Some strange 50's american diners you've been to :mark:

http://www.fiat-500.co.uk/store/catalog/berman500int.jpg

[Brown, Jon Brow]

but the Micra was styled on the original 500 so what are they going to make the 500 look like? The original Micra? :p That's like someone making a car that looks like a Stratos and then criticising Lanica for making something that looks a little like the copy of the Stratos.

Whilst the 500 does look like the Micra, it's a far more successful modern copy of the original 500 ;) The interior of the Micra is extremely dull and not particularly nice yet the 500 is a very very nice place to be.

Which Micra?

I always thought the original Micra was styled on the original Mini.

[Daniel]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy282/harpzsingh/Nissan-Micra-Rear.jpg\
http://mycarblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Fiat-new-500-back.jpg

[odykas]

http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2009/04/barbie-fiat-500-580px.jpg

The main target group of 500 is men :p :

[Daniel]

Bad tOdy

[ioan]

One advice, don't drive it fast cause it will roll over in no time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJU2vhKHaTA&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J0LWNhhJ-k&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VztPQtCh-CU&NR=1

Buy one of the old ones, much better than the new one, much cheaper too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKWsY3GAvq4&feature=related

[Daniel]

Lol ioan, that car is an Assetto Corse and the bodykit obviously grounded on the kerb. I've driven my 500 fairly quick and it hasn't rolled yet :)

[ioan]

Lol ioan, that car is an Assetto Corse and the bodykit obviously grounded on the kerb. I've driven my 500 fairly quick and it hasn't rolled yet :)

Even worse, if a race prepped car rolls like that I wouldn't want to drive a normal one in anger.

And BTW there is one rolling in almost any video related to race Fiat 500s! :eek:

[Daniel]

Ioan, a car will only roll when it hits something :) http://www.txt-drive.co.uk/blog/2010/04/bsm-driving-school-learner-flips-fiat-500-roof-driving-lesson-true/

500 only rolled because it hit something.

I've done over 25,000 miles in a 500 so I'm fairly well qualified to say whether or not it's a Roly poly car or not ;)

[Daniel]

I meant to say will generally only roll if it hits something

[ioan]

I meant to say will generally only roll if it hits something

Good correction cause some of those 500s did roll without hitting anything but air.
As soon as they try to corner at slightly higher speed the car will roll instead of sliding, quite a design flow IMO.

[schmenke]

Any passenger car can be made to roll :mark: .

[Daniel]

Any passenger car can be made to roll :mark: .

Exactly.

[ioan]

Any passenger car can be made to roll :mark: .

That easily?! It's not like they went on full lock at 150 kmh, it just rolled while they were negotiating the corner at speeds around what they used to do before and the thing just flipped over.
I am yet to see so many vids with one specific car type rolling over.

[donKey jote]

Ok then name a car with a better front looking, and don't you dare say the Ka... or that little Toyota :p :

the Seat 600 :bandit:

[Retro Formula 1]

http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2009/04/barbie-fiat-500-580px.jpg

The main target group of 500 is men :p :

No, the main target group of men is HER!!!

Fortunately, 500 drivers wouldn't be interested unless she advertises her MPG figures on the inside of her G-string :D

[Brown, Jon Brow]

http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2009/04/barbie-fiat-500-580px.jpg

The main target group of 500 is men :p :

It did take me a good view seconds to notice the car in that picture. :\

[Mark]

Well the Fiesta is a bigger car after all. So a comparison isn't a fair one.

[driveace]

Ask BSM (British School Of Motoring) about the 500 rolling over!
One of their pupils rolled one over,and it was in all the national papers,she (The Learner) did hit something !! A 4 inch kerb!

[janneppi]

There's even a £35,000 one if you want
http://www.zercustoms.com/news/images/Fiat/Fiat-500-Abarth-695-Tributo-Ferrari-1.jpg

http://pistonheads.com/sales/2750088.htm

Personally I'm not a fan as I think it cheapens both the Abarth and Ferrari brands but they're selling and I don't see many other manufacturers selling supermini's for 35k so it must have something going for it.
Sooo...that's a what, a prancing mouse? :D

[Daniel]

Ask BSM (British School Of Motoring) about the 500 rolling over!
One of their pupils rolled one over,and it was in all the national papers,she (The Learner) did hit something !! A 4 inch kerb!

Which I linked to earlier. It wasn't just a kerb, it hit a gatepost....

Cars flipping after hitting kerbs is quite commong anyway.....

http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=psy&hl=en&site=&source=hp&q=car+flips+kerb&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=ebbbb78d647197f4&biw=1920&bih=1105

http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=psy&hl=en&site=&source=hp&q=car+flips+kerb&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=ebbbb78d647197f4&biw=1920&bih=1105

[donKey jote]

all cars are flippable, but some are more flippable than others :)

[airshifter]

Yet to see one on the road here in the US. Other than decent MPG, they don't seem to have many selling points for the US market.

[Daniel]

Yet to see one on the road here in the US. Other than decent MPG, they don't seem to have many selling points for the US market.

I do wonder what Americans will think of it. They've made a few changes to the US 500 to make it a bit more US friendly. It's difficult to say for sure how well it'll do though. I think they sold out the first run of production, but that would have been mostly to hardcore Italian car fans. Will be interesting to see how well it does. Not having been to the US I don't know how much of a market there is for small cars like that anyway.

[Mark]

I do wonder what Americans will think of it. They've made a few changes to the US 500 to make it a bit more US friendly. It's difficult to say for sure how well it'll do though. I think they sold out the first run of production, but that would have been mostly to hardcore Italian car fans. Will be interesting to see how well it does. Not having been to the US I don't know how much of a market there is for small cars like that anyway.

Has it got a 3 litre engine and auto gearbox?!

[Daniel]

Has it got a 3 litre engine and auto gearbox?!

Not all American cars have big engines ;) You do get things like Honda Jazz's there (Fit's) but how well they sell I don't know. Oh and yes here is an auto option :)

[odykas]

There's no replacement for displacement :laugh:

[driveace]

Now all of you come clean!!!
who started this thread/
Be honest now guys and put Danial out of his misery.
Come on tell him its a joke !!!!

[bowler]

the phrase "hook, line and sinker" rings loudly in my head :-)

[Daniel]

the phrase "hook, line and sinker" rings loudly in my head :-)

Or bunch of ****s.

[donKey jote]

Now all of you come clean!!!
who started this thread/
Be honest now guys and put Danial out of his misery.
Come on tell him its a joke !!!!

I reckon it was Wade91 :p

[driveace]

Nothing to do with Gridgirl ? As she rubs Danial up the wrong way occasionally ?

[donKey jote]

what do you mean, like the actress and the bishop ? :angel:

[airshifter]

I reckon it was Wade91 :p

Or Mark. :laugh:

[Mark]

It's not me. :D

[GridGirl]

Nothing to do with Gridgirl ? As she rubs Danial up the wrong way occasionally ?

Haha The absolute last thing I'd want to do is encourage Daniel and his fivehundreditus! :p Although on the positive side he can drag up this thread time after time rather than turning other car related threads into 500 borefests. For that I can't thank the thread starter enough! :)

[donKey jote]

I reckon it's that dodgy dockman again :p

[GridGirl]

Would this be the right time to request an 'I love miscrosoft' thread to be started? ;)

[Daniel]

Haha The absolute last thing I'd want to do is encourage Daniel and his fivehundreditus! :p Although on the positive side he can drag up this thread time after time rather than turning other car related threads into 500 borefests. For that I can't thank the thread starter enough! :)
You really are an annoying one :rolleyes: if you don't like a post then don't read it, or use the ignore function. Talking about a car is hardly offensive.

[Rollo]

Haha The absolute last thing I'd want to do is encourage Daniel and his fivehundreditus! :p

Oh fivehundreditus isn't a bad sort of affliction to have. It could be worse, it could be Jaguaruenza or worse Acquired Morris Amāre Disorder; that even includes the sock and sandal wearing beardy brigade who hang about at real ale festivals.

I have toyed with the idea of getting a Mito which is otherwise a repackaged Fiat Grande Punto.

[Daniel]

Oh fivehundreditus isn't a bad sort of affliction to have. It could be worse, it could be Jaguaruenza or worse Acquired Morris Amāre Disorder; that even includes the sock and sandal wearing beardy brigade who hang about at real ale festivals.

I have toyed with the idea of getting a Mito which is otherwise a repackaged Fiat Grande Punto.

How much do they want for Mito's over there? I imagine because it's european they'll want a lot!

Sadly some people on here wouldn't know a decent car if it ran them over......

[Rollo]

A$31,490 which works out to be £20,468.

I figure that with 150bhp on tap, that's better than a Corolla or Focus and I don't really need the extra size of those two cars.

[Brave Dockman]

I reckon it's that dodgy dockman again :p

It wasn't me.

[GridGirl]

You really are an annoying one :rolleyes: if you don't like a post then don't read it, or use the ignore function. Talking about a car is hardly offensive.

That fivehundreditus is very sensitive when I say something. Which is quite funny considering that that I'm not the one who started this whole thread to take the p***. :rolleyes: Car threads on this forum are somewhat like f1 tyres of old. They start off good until you go through the graining or 500 phase and then they come back to you and are quite good again. ;) :p

[Daniel]

That fivehundreditus is very sensitive when I say something. Which is quite funny considering that that I'm not the one who started this whole thread to take the p***. :rolleyes: Car threads on this forum are somewhat like f1 tyres of old. They start off good until you go through the graining or 500 phase and then they come back to you and are quite good again. ;) :p

Do shut up. It's obvious that you're trolling.

[Daniel]

A$31,490 which works out to be £20,468.

I figure that with 150bhp on tap, that's better than a Corolla or Focus and I don't really need the extra size of those two cars.

Wow. That's a lot of money.

You can get a QV here for 17,955 and I've seen sites doing them for 16,300..... People complain about getting ripped off in the UK :D

[donKey jote]

It wasn't me.

hmm :laugh: :D

[driveace]

can we put this post to bed now?
And Danial,watch out for the next time they try to take you in !!

[Daniel]

Tbh if some halfwit wants to try and troll someone to get them to post good advice then whatever, it's a pretty lame way of getting a laugh if that is indeed what has happened here.

[Daniel]

Nah I think half the forum found it rather funny. Its that old situation where if the joke happens to be on one particular person, its best to have a laugh and go along with it rather than get wound up and have people laugh at you rather than with you. I work with a guy like that. He'll happily play a joke on someone else but takes it personally when the role is reversed. Poor guy ends up being the butt of all the private jokes now where he was once considered one of the lads. :)

I think you're confused :) I don't really care all that much. There seems to be this impression that I feel that everyone should own a 500 and if people did buy 500's then I'd gain some perverse pleasure out of it :confused:

[Daniel]

Well now you have cleared that up that unfortunate misconception by the thread contributors, you can be safe in the knowledge that we don't think you get your rocks off to others buying Fiat 500's.. :p :)

That would be quite a worrying complaint if you approached a doctor with it. German shepherds, tranvestite midgets, and one armed milk maids I could almost understand, but Fiat 500's being put into a google search engine for pleasure!!?? Err no.

If you think I'm sick then you need to check out some of the people on other forums. There's a guy on a forum I post on who thinks that his Abarth 500 is quicker than a VW Golf GTi and claims he "raced" a Aston Martin DB9 and won when all that happened was the person in the Aston (and the Golf) got sick of some fool trying to race them on a public forum and let him past.

Transvestite midgets? Now I just have to google that :p

[Daniel]

Yet to see one on the road here in the US. Other than decent MPG, they don't seem to have many selling points for the US market.

Seems you might be waiting a while to see one....

Stolen from another forum


Yeah, what a pity then that some actual numbers provide a less-than-flattering contrast to Laura's spin.

http://www.just-auto.com/news/chrysler-targets-50000-fiat-500-sales_id105655.aspx (Original sales target) for 2011: 50,000 units

...revised target http://www.rpmgo.com/fiat-500c-arrives/ (as of last week): 45,000 units

Number of units sold in March: 500

...in April: 882

Total orders to end of last week: 2,200

So they only need to sell a touch over 7,000 500s every month till the rest of the year to hit their (lower) target. Silly me for ever doubting it, I see now they're definitely on track and "exceeding expectations".


"Hey, Mini flogged 45k cars in the US last year, we can beat that since our car's cheaper"

[airshifter]

Seems you might be waiting a while to see one....

Stolen from another forum

It could be just the local market, but I can see one any time I want. The local dealer is running all kinds of print ads and commercials. I just haven't seen one on the road yet. He's apparently got plenty of them in stock according to web info.

[GridGirl]

Surely calling someone a halfwit breaks the forum rules. :p

[Mark]

Abarth 500

I saw one of them in Sainsbury's Leeds car park last night.

True story.

[GridGirl]

You didn't need to go Sainsbury's. You should have come to my house. We have a resident moron Abarth owner. :p

[Mark]

You didn't need to go Sainsbury's. You should have come to my house. We have a resident moron Abarth owner. :p

Well it's not like I went to Colton Sainsbury's on the off chance I might see an Abarth there. I was buying a bag of pork scratchings :p (amongst other things :D )

[Rollo]

Ford Ka is worst car, say drivers - Yahoo! Cars (http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/31052011/36/ford-ka-hammered-jd-power-survey-0.html)
The Ford Ka has been named the UK's most disappointing car in the huge annual car owner satisfaction survey conducted by JD Power and What Car?
...
However, this disappointing result relates to the new Ka, launched in 2008. It's the first time the car has appeared in the survey, which was completed by 16,840 owners. The majority of complaints related to poor build quality.

Oh how the mighty have fallen.

Ka Mk2 shares the same factory as the Fiat 500, is built on the same platform and was developed by Fiat. I wonder what that says about the car itself, considering that underneath the packaging it's the same car.

Had Ka Mk2 been built on the current Fiesta platform like Mk1 was, then perhaps things might be different. The Fiesta was only a couple of points shy of being European Car of the Year for 2009.

How can Fiat on one hand build the European Car of the Year for 2008, yet produce out of the same factory and using mostly the same bits, the worst car for 2011?

[Mark]

Perhaps because the platform is sound, but what they built on top of it isn't?

[Daniel]

Meh. I wouldn't put much weight on JD power's crap surveys. The ka is absolutely fine and owners are happy.

[Daniel]

Perhaps because the platform is sound, but what they built on top of it isn't?

But the platform is all the bits that matter. The engine, gearbox, suspension and all the electrics will be shared with the 500. The only bits that Ford will have changed are the panels and the trim inside. The rest is pure 500 and believe me that's a good thing.

Same thing

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mEt1jXfs6D8/TStudvspjnI/AAAAAAAAKmA/qGZGx6BnQLI/s1600/Fiat+500+interior.jpg
Just slightly different
http://fordpics.tk/resimler/2003-ford-ka-21.jpg

Lets also put things into perspective...... 2011 J.D. Power UK survey results | Car Advice | Reviews (http://www.caradvice.com.au/121187/2011-j-d-power-uk-survey-results/)

The top ranked car was the Aygo with 80.2% and the 500 was 2nd in the city car segment with 79.9% and the Ka was last on 74.1% so hardly a terrible car

What?!?!?!? CAR?!?!?! had this to say about the Ka


Oh dear. Ford’s smallest model isn’t propping up just the city car class – it was voted the worst car in the entire 2011 survey. A hugely disappointing debut for the new Ka, then, especially when you consider that the Fiat 500, on which it’s based, came second in class. The real bugbears were its unattractive interior, poor fuel economy and the high cost of servicing and repairs. Ford dealers didn’t impress owners, either, and a relatively high number of faults with the windscreen wipers and glovebox sealed its fate.

The interior is ugly, I'll say that, but that's Ford's fault and fits in with their silly "kinetic" design which is meant to make you feel carsick without moving. What kind of moron buys a car with an unattractive interior and then complains about it? :confused: Firstly there are no problems with the windscreen wipers, windscreen washers however, yes there are some issues with them but a minute with a set of pliers will sort that out. Glovebox problems? Well that's it! If it has issues with the glovebox I'm not buying it! Seriously, imagine you've got a Ka, it's a dark rainy night and you're driving down a narrow country lane and the glovebox won't stay closed or won't open, that's REALLY going to spoil your drive isn't it! I'd much rather the gearbox failed or the engine threw a bearing! That's a dealbreaker for me :rolleyes: I laugh at the fact that Ford dealers are getting slated off, Fiat dealers are far far worse.

I place precisely 0% value on JD Power surveys as they seem to be filled in by the sorts of people who are petty enough to take issue with a glovebox and would be prime candidates for inhumane euthanasia if I were world supreme overlord.

[Mark]

I laugh at the fact that Ford dealers are getting slated off, Fiat dealers are far far worse.


Our local Ford dealer turned into a Fiat dealer, I'm not sure what that means :p

[Daniel]

Our local Ford dealer turned into a Fiat dealer, I'm not sure what that means :p

Whatever it means it can't be good......

[odykas]

Seems you might be waiting a while to see one....

"Hey, Mini flogged 45k cars in the US last year, we can beat that since our car's cheaper"



Different class though.
500 is not MiTo / Grande Punto (not that I like MiTo :p : )

Does anyone know what versions of 500 are available in the US?
I believe that it would be a hell of a challenge if they tried to sell 500 0.9 twinair there... :rolleyes:

[Daniel]

Different class though.
500 is not MiTo / Grande Punto (not that I like MiTo :p : )

Does anyone know what versions of 500 are available in the US?
I believe that it would be a hell of a challenge if they tried to sell 500 0.9 twinair there... :rolleyes:

Well the 1.4 multiair in the USA only produces 101bhp whereas the forthcoming version of the Twinair produces 105bhp. But I doubt a sub 1 litre engine would sell well with americans even if it is turbocharged.

What do you think of the forthcoming new European Lancia range? :D

Then there's the typically Italian named Fiat Freemont :laugh:

http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201101/fiat-freemont-3_460x0w.jpg

[odykas]

What do you think of the forthcoming new European Lancia range? :D



Rebagged Chrysler models named Lancias... how worse can it be? :blackeye: :bigcry:

[Daniel]

Rebagged Chrysler models named Lancias... how worse can it be? :blackeye: :bigcry:

Could be much worse! We could have really fantastic retro models based on iconic cars.....

http://darioc.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/lancia_fulvia_concept_01.jpg

http://www.motorward.com/wp-content/images/2010/08/New-Lancia-Stratos-1.jpg

That'd be HORRIBLE wouldn't it? Can you believe that Lancia passed up on the opportunity to put the Lancia badge on the new Stratos? :rolleyes:

[schmenke]

Well the 1.4 multiair in the USA only produces 101bhp whereas the forthcoming version of the Twinair produces 105bhp. But I doubt a sub 1 litre engine would sell well with americans even if it is turbocharged.

...

To most North Americans turbocharging is what the wife does with a credit card... :dozey:

[Daniel]

I suspect in the next few years Americans will get more accustomed to it.

[schmenke]

I’d like to think so.
Sadly, the typical demand for a vehicle around here looks similar to:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3266/5789796059_4900f8e82d.jpg

Even though it is pitifully unsuitable for most. My neighbour purchased one a few months ago due to peer pressure (everyone at his work place drives one :mark: ). Now he rarely drives it because it consumes too much fuel :dozey: .

[airshifter]

I’d like to think so.
Sadly, the typical demand for a vehicle around here looks similar to:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3266/5789796059_4900f8e82d.jpg

Even though it is pitifully unsuitable for most. My neighbour purchased one a few months ago due to peer pressure (everyone at his work place drives one :mark: ). Now he rarely drives it because it consumes too much fuel :dozey: .

One of the engine options is the turbo 3.5 liter 6 banger. :)

Ford has also sold a couple of supercharged trucks in the last decade or so. It's not as if people in the US are opposed to different technologies, they are just inclined towards torque, especially in the larger heavier vehicles.

[schmenke]

That's all well and good airshifter, but still doesn't explain the need to use one of those brutes as a daily driver for someone who works in downtown office building :mark: .

[Daniel]

That's all well and good airshifter, but still doesn't explain the need to use one of those brutes as a daily driver for someone who works in downtown office building :mark: .

I would be really interested to see what someone like yourself or airshifter thought of the 500 as people from North America so if you do see one in a dealership do pop in and have a peek.

A few people over on the fiat forum I post on have a child or two and don't have any problems with space, but a few people who've had a newborn have gone the typical route and bought an articulated lorry to carry them and their 2kg bag of flour sized child :p

[GridGirl]

One of my friends had a 500. Even though her husband hated it he went to the trouble of buying her a 500 registration plate to put on it. She had her first child in mid September. The 500 was gone by mid November. She thought they may have to sell it due to money but in the end it was size that forced the sale. She still has the 500 number plate though.

[odykas]

Could be much worse! We could have really fantastic retro models based on iconic cars.....


That'd be HORRIBLE wouldn't it? Can you believe that Lancia passed up on the opportunity to put the Lancia badge on the new Stratos? :rolleyes:

Lancia is the perfect example of FIAT management mistakes, missed opportunities, lack of strategy and vision.
FIAT management must realise that they must either shutdown the company or invest in it. The current situation is just unacceptable.

I'm curious if any other small cars are available in N. America, such as: Smart, 107/C1/Aygo, Others.

[Daniel]

Lancia is the perfect example of FIAT management mistakes, missed opportunities, lack of strategy and vision.
FIAT management must realise that they must either shutdown the company or invest in it. The current situation is just unacceptable.

I'm curious if any other small cars are available in N. America, such as: Smart, 107/C1/Aygo, Others.

I think Smart's might be sold in the USA.

I agree that the current situation with Lancia is unacceptable. They seem to think that Lancia is a luxury brand. So what do they do? Sell freaking Chryslers as Lancia's and a few slightly nicer Fiat's than what Fiat sell. If anything, Lancia is just as much of a sporty brand as Alfa Romeo is, so what do they do with Alfa? Make some lukewarm cars with a few fat, overweight and underpowered GM engines and sell people the Cuore Sportivo bullcrap to people. Alfa should have a few class leading products and at least some freaking hot cars and all they've got is the Mito QV and the Giulietta QV. Where are the freakin' GTA's? Why is this horribly ugly and unItalian looking 4c piece of crap being pedalled? Makes me freakin' angry to see people piss away such good brands. I only hope that VAG can do better with Alfa than the Italians have......

[ioan]

I think Smart's might be sold in the USA.

I agree that the current situation with Lancia is unacceptable. They seem to think that Lancia is a luxury brand. So what do they do? Sell freaking Chryslers as Lancia's and a few slightly nicer Fiat's than what Fiat sell. If anything, Lancia is just as much of a sporty brand as Alfa Romeo is, so what do they do with Alfa? Make some lukewarm cars with a few fat, overweight and underpowered GM engines and sell people the Cuore Sportivo bullcrap to people. Alfa should have a few class leading products and at least some freaking hot cars and all they've got is the Mito QV and the Giulietta QV. Where are the freakin' GTA's? Why is this horribly ugly and unItalian looking 4c piece of crap being pedalled? Makes me freakin' angry to see people piss away such good brands. I only hope that VAG can do better with Alfa than the Italians have......

Man you've really got angry there, so many grammar mistakes, so unlike you! :D

BTW VAG will certainly do better, they are German. Just look how well Bugatti and Lamborghini are doing since they took over, Alfa should be a piece of cake in comparison.

[Daniel]

Man you've really got angry there, so many grammar mistakes, so unlike you! :D

BTW VAG will certainly do better, they are German. Just look how well Bugatti and Lamborghini are doing since they took over, Alfa should be a piece of cake in comparison.

My grammar has never been good :p

IMHO Lamborghini aren't quite what they used to be before the takeover.

[ioan]

IMHO Lamborghini aren't quite what they used to be before the takeover.

Yeah, they sure aren't bankrupt anymore! :p

Seriously, they produce good sports cars that offer good vale for money and can take it to the Porsches and Ferraris out there.

[Daniel]

Yeah, they sure aren't bankrupt anymore! :p

True enough :) :up:

[donKey jote]

Last time we had one at the tracks I almost sneaked a ride...
but I couldn't find reverse to back it out of the garage ! :arrows: :dozey:

[Firstgear]

........bought an articulated lorry to carry them and their 2kg bag of flour sized child :p

It's not the size of the kid, it's all the accesories that come along with the kid. Stroller, daiper bag, etc.
We got a minivan (had a Honda Prelude before that) when our second arrived. Wifey was having too much trouble putting in and taking the baby seat out of the back seat of a 2 door car. Also, once the stroller went into the trunk, there wasn't really much room for anyting else.

[Firstgear]

I'm curious if any other small cars are available in N. America, such as: Smart, 107/C1/Aygo, Others.

We've had Smart cars here for a few years now.

Saw my first 500 about two weeks ago in a car lot, and yesterday on a billboard (advertised - as low as $15,995 & 55mpg). Haven't seen any on the street yet though. They must've changed the car rental or used car lot (whatever it was before - I don't remember) into a Fiat dealership. There's a lot full of 500's in front of a building that's had it's name and all it's signs covered with chipboard. Guess I'll find out when the reno's are done.

[Daniel]

It's not the size of the kid, it's all the accesories that come along with the kid. Stroller, daiper bag, etc.
We got a minivan (had a Honda Prelude before that) when our second arrived. Wifey was having too much trouble putting in and taking the baby seat out of the back seat of a 2 door car. Also, once the stroller went into the trunk, there wasn't really much room for anyting else.

But I think people choose to take loads of crap with :) You can fit a pushchair in the back of the 500, the rear seats on most of them are 50:50 splits so you can put larger stuff in that way. I'll admit you won't be doing any cross continent journeys with a child in the back, but for shopping journeys and days out it's fine. I admit if it was an only car then you'd definitely need something bigger. That said when I was little, my parents carried myself and my 2 older brothers around in a little Honda Civic.

[odykas]

I think Smart's might be sold in the USA.

I agree that the current situation with Lancia is unacceptable. They seem to think that Lancia is a luxury brand. So what do they do? Sell freaking Chryslers as Lancia's and a few slightly nicer Fiat's than what Fiat sell. If anything, Lancia is just as much of a sporty brand as Alfa Romeo is, so what do they do with Alfa? Make some lukewarm cars with a few fat, overweight and underpowered GM engines and sell people the Cuore Sportivo bullcrap to people. Alfa should have a few class leading products and at least some freaking hot cars and all they've got is the Mito QV and the Giulietta QV. Where are the freakin' GTA's? Why is this horribly ugly and unItalian looking 4c piece of crap being pedalled? Makes me freakin' angry to see people piss away such good brands. I only hope that VAG can do better with Alfa than the Italians have......

I agree Daniel.. but the problem is that VAG is the Devil reincarnated.
Live free or die :evil:

[Daniel]

We've had Smart cars here for a few years now.

Saw my first 500 about two weeks ago in a car lot, and yesterday on a billboard (advertised - as low as $15,995 & 55mpg). Haven't seen any on the street yet though. They must've changed the car rental or used car lot (whatever it was before - I don't remember) into a Fiat dealership. There's a lot full of 500's in front of a building that's had it's name and all it's signs covered with chipboard. Guess I'll find out when the reno's are done.

Good to see the Fiat dealership experience is consistent over the pond! :D

[Firstgear]

Well, my curiosity got to me - and I had to check what that lot was before (google streetview to the rescue) - and it was a private used auto lot. But as I clicked along streetview, I noticed something that I hadn't noticed before. All the car dealerships seem to have been put in a specific order.
You start at a VW/Porsche dealership.
.....then Mazda
.....then Chrysler
.....then used Chrysler
.....then used private (now the fiat/500 lot)
.....and beside that is a place called ArchAngel Fireworks

It's like a stroll from auto bliss to auto hell. :eek: :D :D

[Daniel]

I agree Daniel.. but the problem is that VAG is the Devil reincarnated.
Live free or die :evil:

I agree. It would be just another brand for Piech and they would just get Seat's and paint them red, put the scudetto on and sell them as Alfa's.

[Daniel]

Well, my curiosity got to me - and I had to check what that lot was before (google streetview to the rescue) - and it was a private used auto lot. But as I clicked along streetview, I noticed something that I hadn't noticed before. All the car dealerships seem to have been put in a specific order.
You start at a VW/Porsche dealership.
.....then Mazda
.....then Chrysler
.....then used Chrysler
.....then used private (now the fiat/500 lot)
.....and beside that is a place called ArchAngel Fireworks

It's like a stroll from auto bliss to auto hell. :eek: :D :D

Fits in with them being sold alongside Chryslers :) They'll be a lot better than the Chrysler's I reckon though :D

[Firstgear]

That said when I was little, my parents carried myself and my 2 older brothers around in a little Honda Civic.
I remember squeezing into the back (and I mean behind the back seat, under the rear window) of my parents Bug/Beetle with my younger sister. My older siblings shared the back seat.

[odykas]

Hold on. Alfa is set to return to N. America soon ;)

[GridGirl]

But I think people choose to take loads of crap with :) You can fit a pushchair in the back of the 500, the rear seats on most of them are 50:50 splits so you can put larger stuff in that way. I'll admit you won't be doing any cross continent journeys with a child in the back, but for shopping journeys and days out it's fine. I admit if it was an only car then you'd definitely need something bigger. That said when I was little, my parents carried myself and my 2 older brothers around in a little Honda Civic.

Its not that you can't have kids and a 500 it's most likely that you just can't be bothered with the hastle especially if you have a limited number of car seats that you need to swap between vehicles. My nieces are 4 and 18 months and I always find it much more of a hassle faffing around with the car seats in the back of my fester compared to when you put them in the other half's 5 door car. Thats all before you try and get the kids in and out of the said car seats. :p :s

[Daniel]

Hold on. Alfa is set to return to N. America soon ;)

Yes, and how many times before has Alfa been returning to the US before? ;)

I think I trust Bernie more than I trust Sergio :D

I hear what you're saying GG, if you've got a 5 door car you're not going to faff about with the 3 door car. I just find it silly that someone would buy a 3 door car and then goes and sells it and take the depreciation hit just because of the hassle. But then again I'm just tight :p

[ioan]

But I think people choose to take loads of crap with :) You can fit a pushchair in the back of the 500, the rear seats on most of them are 50:50 splits so you can put larger stuff in that way. I'll admit you won't be doing any cross continent journeys with a child in the back, but for shopping journeys and days out it's fine. I admit if it was an only car then you'd definitely need something bigger. That said when I was little, my parents carried myself and my 2 older brothers around in a little Honda Civic.

Where do you put the kids if you need to fold the rear seat to put in the stroller?
I've no kids but few years back I used to keep company to a friend of mine when he was taking the kids for a days journey and believe me a Fiat 500 is useless for 2 adults and 2 kids plus some stuff.

[ioan]

I remember squeezing into the back (and I mean behind the back seat, under the rear window) of my parents Bug/Beetle with my younger sister. My older siblings shared the back seat.

:eek:

[Daniel]

Where do you put the kids if you need to fold the rear seat to put in the stroller?
I've no kids but few years back I used to keep company to a friend of mine when he was taking the kids for a days journey and believe me a Fiat 500 is useless for 2 adults and 2 kids plus some stuff.

Of course in that situation a city car really isn't practical. I'm sure you could jam a stroller in somewhere but it would just be silly.

I'm not against big cars at all :)

[airshifter]

That's all well and good airshifter, but still doesn't explain the need to use one of those brutes as a daily driver for someone who works in downtown office building :mark: .

I think most of that has to do with cheap gas. Even with the recent price hikes, gas is cheap here in the US. Rather than own two vehicles, most will commute in a large vehicle especially if they need the room/towing/hauling on occasion.

We have three vehicles and two drivers, so we can have the size/comfort/safety of the larger ones when needed and keep a third commuter that gets decent MPG. But all three have long been paid for so it made sense to keep the smaller car. If we could only afford to keep two, I'd likely have to get rid of the small one. When I need a truck I really need a truck so that would stay. The other is a mid sized SUV and the gas penalty would be worth it on trips and such vs the small car.

[airshifter]

I would be really interested to see what someone like yourself or airshifter thought of the 500 as people from North America so if you do see one in a dealership do pop in and have a peek.

A few people over on the fiat forum I post on have a child or two and don't have any problems with space, but a few people who've had a newborn have gone the typical route and bought an articulated lorry to carry them and their 2kg bag of flour sized child :p

IMO very few people in the US market will even consider a car that small. The SMART sold ok for a couple of years and then sales tanked. People over here just want a larger car for the most part. Not to say that a 100 HP car can't make a decent commuter over here, but most people will pay the gas penalty for more size and/or more power.

[Mark]

The majority of cars in the UK have less than 100bhp!

[Daniel]

IMO very few people in the US market will even consider a car that small. The SMART sold ok for a couple of years and then sales tanked. People over here just want a larger car for the most part. Not to say that a 100 HP car can't make a decent commuter over here, but most people will pay the gas penalty for more size and/or more power.

I tend to agree if we're talking about the US where you have larger distances to cover and cheaper fuel. Back in Australia I happily drove something which was probably only doing 20 or 30 mpg at most :)

[Rollo]

Where do you put the kids if you need to fold the rear seat to put in the stroller?
I've no kids but few years back I used to keep company to a friend of mine when he was taking the kids for a days journey and believe me a Fiat 500 is useless for 2 adults and 2 kids plus some stuff.

On a number of occasions, we took four adults their luggage from Sydney to Melbourne (830km) or Sydney to Brisbane (929km) to watch football and cricket matches.
A stroller though is a harder prospect to carry around, but you could probably manage it if you put some roof racks on the car.

[Iain]

Of course in that situation a city car really isn't practical. I'm sure you could jam a stroller in somewhere but it would just be silly.

I'm not against big cars at all :)

I'm amazed at the amount of crap parents drag around these days. I keep reading on the Seat forum: "We're having our first baby, I'll need to get rid of my Leon and buy a Zafira/Picasso/Scenic!!". If a 5 door hatch that's basically a Golf isn't big enough for you, then I shudder to think how much junk you have.

When I was a baby my dad had the original Mini Clubman estate and I'm told it managed to get to a caravan site in Rhyl with three adults, a baby, highchair, pram and other associated baby stuff with room to spare!

[Daniel]

I'm amazed at the amount of crap parents drag around these days. I keep reading on the Seat forum: "We're having our first baby, I'll need to get rid of my Leon and buy a Zafira/Picasso/Scenic!!". If a 5 door hatch that's basically a Golf isn't big enough for you, then I shudder to think how much junk you have.

When I was a baby my dad had the original Mini Clubman estate and I'm told it managed to get to a caravan site in Rhyl with three adults, a baby, highchair, pram and other associated baby stuff with room to spare!

Exactly. But these days you look in the window of a mothercare store and there's just so much crap in there.

The thing that gets me is the poor planning that some people show. Why buy a Fiat 500 or a Leon or some car you feel will be too small to carry a child around in if you're thinking of having a child? If like Ioan you like to have space then get an Espace now rather than having to get an Espace but also pay the depreciation on a smaller car :mark:

[odykas]

Not to say that a 100 HP car can't make a decent commuter over here, but most people will pay the gas penalty for more size and/or more power.

The speed limit in US is 70-80 mph.
Any car with 100HP can do that easily, provided that the car is not a 2+ ton monstrosity.

[donKey jote]

I remember squeezing into the back (and I mean behind the back seat, under the rear window) of my parents Bug/Beetle with my younger sister. My older siblings shared the back seat.
I remember when I was younger doing the same on our yearly trips from Spain to the UK. Except we had to first dig out a space in between all the tea, marmite, cadbury's, lego, lime juice, ribena, and everything else we stocked up on. When not in the dig-out, I used to squeeze in between the front seats to get a better view of the drive, obviously without a seat belt.
When I was a baby I was apparently put in a basket in the back of my dad's 1800S for the trips from Turkey to England. :p

The world has certainly moved on in the last 40 years or so. :crazy:

[donKey jote]

:eek:

heck you can fit 19 people (http://www.antenne.de/Auto-mit-19-Menschen-aus-Rumaenien-gestoppt__japan_366937_news.html) in a 5-seater car if you really try. :laugh:

[markabilly]

I remember when I was younger doing the same on our yearly trips from Spain to the UK. Except we had to first dig out a space in between all the tea, marmite, cadbury's, lego, lime juice, ribena, and everything else we stocked up on. When not in the dig-out, I used to squeeze in between the front seats to get a better view of the drive, obviously without a seat belt.
When I was a baby I was apparently put in a basket in the back of my dad's 1800S for the trips from Turkey to England. :p

The world has certainly moved on in the last 40 years or so. :crazy:

i dont remember owning no 1800S

[airshifter]

The speed limit in US is 70-80 mph.
Any car with 100HP can do that easily, provided that the car is not a 2+ ton monstrosity.

Around where I live speed limits are even lower. We don't even hit 65 MPH speed limits until we get 30 or so miles from here. And I do realize that a small 100 HP car is capable of doing these speeds for either a commuter or for longer trips. I've got a 100HP sedan that can easily take a couple of adults and kids on an all day trip, the limiting factor being trunk space.

But we don't take it on trips, we take the SUV which is larger, quieter, more powerful, safer, etc. In my case the largest single factor is safety. With all the larger vehicles on the road over here the chances of being flattened are much greater in the smaller car.

My point was that most in the US won't even consider a 100HP car, even if it was to be used only as a commuter.

[Mark]

I'm amazed at the amount of crap parents drag around these days. I keep reading on the Seat forum: "We're having our first baby, I'll need to get rid of my Leon and buy a Zafira/Picasso/Scenic!!". If a 5 door hatch that's basically a Golf isn't big enough for you, then I shudder to think how much junk you have.

When I was a baby my dad had the original Mini Clubman estate and I'm told it managed to get to a caravan site in Rhyl with three adults, a baby, highchair, pram and other associated baby stuff with room to spare!

Most of my childhood my Dad had a Fiesta (about the size of the present day Ka) three door.

We went everywhere in that and on holidays all over the UK and France too. We even went to Scotland with me, Mum, Dad, Grandma and Aunty and we managed!

[GridGirl]

I remember my mum having a MK1 fiesta with no seatbelts in the back. A car seat for a four year old and one for an 18 month old leaves no room in the back of my fiesta. It would be a tight squeeze with only one car seat and two adults in the back. I wouldn't fancy going to the corner shop let alone on a trip to Scotland. :s :p

[ioan]

heck you can fit 19 people (http://www.antenne.de/Auto-mit-19-Menschen-aus-Rumaenien-gestoppt__japan_366937_news.html) in a 5-seater car if you really try. :laugh:

Ouch!
I wonder how the hell did they get so far.

[donKey jote]

Ouch!
I wonder how the hell did they get so far.

yeah, they should have taken a mini-van (was it an Espace? :p ) latest: May 31st (http://www.abendblatt.de/vermischtes/article1908203/Auto-aus-Rumaenien-mit-22-Insassen-gestoppt.html) :laugh:

[ioan]

yeah, they should have taken a mini-van (was it an Espace? :p ) latest: May 31st (http://www.abendblatt.de/vermischtes/article1908203/Auto-aus-Rumaenien-mit-22-Insassen-gestoppt.html) :laugh:

It would have been very hard to have 22 in an S-Max! :p

I reckon next they will try 25 in a Fiat 500! ;)

[donKey jote]

I reckon next they will try 25 in a Fiat 500! ;)

/* Daniel: well it's certainly big enough, so long as you have another car */ ;)

[Daniel]

/* Daniel: well it's certainly big enough, so long as you have another car */ ;)

Well I think if you cut the 20 odd people into chunks then you could fit them all in 2 500's :D

[odykas]

Who said you cannot fit 22 people in a 500? ;)

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h143/pas4190/FiveHundredLimousine.jpg

[Daniel]

Who said you cannot fit 22 people in a 500? ;)

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h143/pas4190/FiveHundredLimousine.jpg

I forgot to mention, if you're up for a bit of Marchionne bashing feel free to sign up on Italiaspeed forum (Powered by Invision Power Board) (http://www.italiaspeed.info/) ;)

[odykas]

No more Marchionne bashing please, I've had more than enough :p :

Go Sergio :blackeye:

[Eki]

Here's something for Daniel. A Fiat 500 computer mouse:

Mulletoi.com verkkokauppa - Fiat 500 tietokonehiiri (http://www.mulletoi.com/shop/tekniikka/tietokoneen_varustelu/prod__5758_fiat_500_tietokonehiiri)