Making NFL Safer... by removing the safety gear?

[Rollo]

I've just been watching the first State of Origin Rugby League match between NSW and Queensland for 2011 and was wondering about this though experiment proposed by the Wall Street Journal in 2009; namely:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704402404574527881984299454.html
This football season, the debate about head injuries has reached a critical mass. Startling research has been unveiled. Maudlin headlines have been written. Congress called a hearing on the subject last month.
...
But before the debate goes any further, there's a fundamental question that needs to be investigated. Why do football players wear helmets in the first place? And more important, could the helmets be part of the problem?

I often plead the question of safety in the F1 forum, and watching the Rugby League tonight, it was startlingly obvious to me that the hits taken by players in a Rugby League match are nowhere near as rough as they are in a game of NFL, and I tend to wonder if helmets are part of the problem.

I also find it a little curious that the NFL season only lasts 17-weeks, and the matches are only 60 minutes of actual game time, as opposed to 80 minutes in a game of Rugby League and 120 minutes in an Australian Rules Football match.

The British Medical Association came to the conclusion in one of their reports, that the risk of serious injury and death caused by head trauma was actually lower in the days of bare-knuckle boxing. Because boxers would feel their own punches more without gloves they'd tend not to hit as hard. There are reports of prizefights lasting beyond the 6 hour mark. The link is below:
http://www.bma.org/ap.nsf/AttachmentsByTitle/PDFboxingdebate/$FILE/TheBoxingDebate.pdf

Then there is the curious tale of the Munich Taxicab Experiment, in which half of a fleet of taxicabs were fitted with ABS and half not. The drivers were then let loose but not told which cabs they had.

Among a total of 747 accidents incurred by the company's taxis during that period, the involvement rate of the ABS vehicles was not lower, but slightly higher,
...
Subsequent analysis of the rating scales showed that drivers of cabs with ABS made sharper turns in curves, were less accurate in their lane-holding behaviour, proceeded at a shorter forward sight distance, made more poorly adjusted merging manoeuvres and created more "traffic conflicts".
http://psyc.queensu.ca/target/chapter07.html

I'm wondering then, if NFL players didn't have helmets on, whether they'd be as likely to use their heads as battering rams the way they can do now, and whether or not the game would be made safer as a result?

[Mark]

Then there is the curious tale of the Munich Taxicab Experiment, in which half of a fleet of taxicabs were fitted with ABS and half not. The drivers were then let loose but not told which cabs they had.

The point was that drivers did know which ones they had, otherwise the risk compensation effect wouldn't have happened!

PS. Can we get the "spike on the steering wheel" bit out of the way now? :p

[gloomyDAY]

Joe Paterno has been advocating this sentiment for ages! If you get rid of the facemask, not the helmet entirely, it forces a player make a play and not jam their head into someone else. The pain caused by a head-to-head hit would be too severe for a player to handle, so they would think twice before using their head as a battering ram.

[Zeakiwi]

Was there not also the call for the NFL players to have 'soft' headgear rather than the hardshell helmets ?

[Mark in Oshawa]

WE have the same issues in hockey. The "safety" of the pads is enhanced by greater padding under hard plastic shells on the shoulder and elbow pads. So guys wall paper each other at high speed into the boards. Two bodies colliding against the boards at 29mph at times means a hockey game sounds like car crashes at times. Concussions are WAY up.....

So in the NFL and hockey, North America's two great sports for collisions are actually more dangerous because of "safety". Sometimes the law of diminishing returns occurs..and then in this case, it changes the game. Gridiron football is now a series of hard collisions and often the head is a weapon. Paterno is right...take the face mask's off and see how eager people are to stick their head in there. People might have to learn to tackle......

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I think ditching the tight pants should be more of a pressing issue.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think ditching the tight pants should be more of a pressing issue.

That is for the women!

[schmenke]

They should drop it altogether and play rugby as its better.

As a spectator sport, I agree.

[markabilly]

I've just been watching the first State of Origin Rugby League match between NSW and Queensland for 2011 and was wondering about this though experiment proposed by the Wall Street Journal in 2009; namely:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704402404574527881984299454.html
This football season, the debate about head injuries has reached a critical mass. Startling research has been unveiled. Maudlin headlines have been written. Congress called a hearing on the subject last month.
...
But before the debate goes any further, there's a fundamental question that needs to be investigated. Why do football players wear helmets in the first place? And more important, could the helmets be part of the problem?

I often plead the question of safety in the F1 forum, and watching the Rugby League tonight, it was startlingly obvious to me that the hits taken by players in a Rugby League match are nowhere near as rough as they are in a game of NFL, and I tend to wonder if helmets are part of the problem.

I also find it a little curious that the NFL season only lasts 17-weeks, and the matches are only 60 minutes of actual game time, as opposed to 80 minutes in a game of Rugby League and 120 minutes in an Australian Rules Football match.

The British Medical Association came to the conclusion in one of their reports, that the risk of serious injury and death caused by head trauma was actually lower in the days of bare-knuckle boxing. Because boxers would feel their own punches more without gloves they'd tend not to hit as hard. There are reports of prizefights lasting beyond the 6 hour mark. The link is below:
http://www.bma.org/ap.nsf/AttachmentsByTitle/PDFboxingdebate/$FILE/TheBoxingDebate.pdf

Then there is the curious tale of the Munich Taxicab Experiment, in which half of a fleet of taxicabs were fitted with ABS and half not. The drivers were then let loose but not told which cabs they had.

Among a total of 747 accidents incurred by the company's taxis during that period, the involvement rate of the ABS vehicles was not lower, but slightly higher,
...
Subsequent analysis of the rating scales showed that drivers of cabs with ABS made sharper turns in curves, were less accurate in their lane-holding behaviour, proceeded at a shorter forward sight distance, made more poorly adjusted merging manoeuvres and created more "traffic conflicts".
http://psyc.queensu.ca/target/chapter07.html

I'm wondering then, if NFL players didn't have helmets on, whether they'd be as likely to use their heads as battering rams the way they can do now, and whether or not the game would be made safer as a result?


I came to the same conclusion some 35 years ago when I started playing rugby, but both helmets and shoulder pads need to go in football.

Rugby was a much better game, more action, but more minor injuries, yet not the major injuries of football.

Plus there was no blocking which causes more problems and injuries from guys hitting the knees from the sides and such.....they are not tackling the ball player, but blocking each other.....

The other thing would be to get rid of the shoulder pads, because those are used as much as the helmet.

I would think in both rugby and football, some head gear for the back of the head would be better than the current situation in both sports. Something soft, because I have seen guys go down hard on to their back, which causes the back of their head to sort of whiplash on to the ground. Seen it in both sports, and the impact on the back of the head from the ground can lead to a concussion in rugby due to the lack of a helmet

[markabilly]

They should drop it altogether and play rugby as its better.

what? their pants?

you guys are a queer lot in britaniia

[markabilly]

I would have said "drop them" would I not, if I meant pants?
If thats the first thing that sprang to mind when you entered this thread I would suggest you seek help or start a pants thread. ;) :D

Just for you:
2787

That is really sweet of you to be so helpful, and give me the panties off your buttocks


but you should keep them in case the wind starts blowing your dress up too high, and giving chills to yourself and everyone around :eek:


Besides two posts in a row about tight pants, and there you are, ready to "drop it" or "them".....no wonder they call it the "QUEEN'S English"

remember boys, keep your powder dry and your panties up

[Eki]

Yes, taking it to the limit is human nature. The more safety gears you give them, the further they go.

[555-04Q2]

I've just been watching the first State of Origin Rugby League match between NSW and Queensland for 2011 and was wondering about this though experiment proposed by the Wall Street Journal in 2009; namely:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704402404574527881984299454.html
This football season, the debate about head injuries has reached a critical mass. Startling research has been unveiled. Maudlin headlines have been written. Congress called a hearing on the subject last month.
...
But before the debate goes any further, there's a fundamental question that needs to be investigated. Why do football players wear helmets in the first place? And more important, could the helmets be part of the problem?

I often plead the question of safety in the F1 forum, and watching the Rugby League tonight, it was startlingly obvious to me that the hits taken by players in a Rugby League match are nowhere near as rough as they are in a game of NFL, and I tend to wonder if helmets are part of the problem.

I also find it a little curious that the NFL season only lasts 17-weeks, and the matches are only 60 minutes of actual game time, as opposed to 80 minutes in a game of Rugby League and 120 minutes in an Australian Rules Football match.

The British Medical Association came to the conclusion in one of their reports, that the risk of serious injury and death caused by head trauma was actually lower in the days of bare-knuckle boxing. Because boxers would feel their own punches more without gloves they'd tend not to hit as hard. There are reports of prizefights lasting beyond the 6 hour mark. The link is below:
http://www.bma.org/ap.nsf/AttachmentsByTitle/PDFboxingdebate/$FILE/TheBoxingDebate.pdf

Then there is the curious tale of the Munich Taxicab Experiment, in which half of a fleet of taxicabs were fitted with ABS and half not. The drivers were then let loose but not told which cabs they had.

Among a total of 747 accidents incurred by the company's taxis during that period, the involvement rate of the ABS vehicles was not lower, but slightly higher,
...
Subsequent analysis of the rating scales showed that drivers of cabs with ABS made sharper turns in curves, were less accurate in their lane-holding behaviour, proceeded at a shorter forward sight distance, made more poorly adjusted merging manoeuvres and created more "traffic conflicts".
http://psyc.queensu.ca/target/chapter07.html

I'm wondering then, if NFL players didn't have helmets on, whether they'd be as likely to use their heads as battering rams the way they can do now, and whether or not the game would be made safer as a result?

Well the first problem is most NFL players are not well conditioned athletes, they are steroid injected junkies. There are some big guys, but most have spindly little legs propping up 100 kg's of biceps and safety gear.

The second problem is the padding they wear makes them feel safer, when in reality, it can be the reason they get injured.

I agree with henners, play rugby, thats a real contact sport.

What, is it cause I'm white :?:

[DexDexter]

Well the first problem is most NFL players are not well conditioned athletes, they are steroid injected junkies. There are some big guys, but most have spindly little legs propping up 100 kg's of biceps and safety gear.

The second problem is the padding they wear makes them feel safer, when in reality, it can be the reason they get injured.

I agree with henners, play rugby, thats a real contact sport.

What, is it cause I'm white :?:

I agree, the whole game is just stupid. It's just full of pauses. Pause after pause after pause. Somebody runs into somebody after 5 seconds and then another pause.

[555-04Q2]

I agree, the whole game is just stupid. It's just full of pauses. Pause after pause after pause. Somebody runs into somebody after 5 seconds and then another pause.

Its not often that we agree on something :p :

[schmenke]

I agree, the whole game is just stupid. It's just full of pauses. Pause after pause after pause. Somebody runs into somebody after 5 seconds and then another pause.

NFL (or “American” football) is very much a team sport where pre-determined plays are used on the field. I find the most enjoyable way to watch a game is from a higher viewing point where you can see how the players moving according to the play that the QB has called, and how the opposing team's defense reacts :)

[555-04Q2]

I prefer watching how paint drips run down the wall and how the painter reacts when he notices :p :

[schmenke]

Does that require safey gear? :p :

[JackSparrow]

I agree, the whole game is just stupid. It's just full of pauses. Pause after pause after pause. Somebody runs into somebody after 5 seconds and then another pause.

The total time the ball is "in play" is 6-7 minutes.How do you think 350 lbs fat guy can play?

[markabilly]

I prefer watching how paint drips run down the wall and how the painter reacts when he notices :p :

Me, too cause watching Henners drop his panties, ain't my cup of tea neither

[markabilly]

Does that require safey gear? :p :

I would not know
guess it depends on the activities and where else he has been, .......................put your tongue back in and keep that stuff private between the two of you, please