2011 Monaco Grand Prix Thread (Official)

[steveaki13]

I thought as everything at Monaco is a bit earlier than at other tracks I would open the thread up a day or so early.



I know this track is too tight for modern F1 and that we often get proccesional races, but despite that I can't help but love the Monaco Grand Prix.

It is still one of my favorites.


Although I wish they would put back the barriers and St. Devote, and swimming pool chicane and revert rascasse back to the tight corner it used to be pre Changes in 2003.

It was much more of a challenge pre 2002. Not saying it is not still a massive challenge, but I just could never understand why the changes were made really.

[F1boat]

For me, this is the most awesome race. The atmosphere is unique...

[Big Ben]

It's a horrible track. We want overtaking. Lots of it. We don't care it's not real.... I just want to jump up and down like a monkey because cars are passing each other. Why would I watch this race? Just to see pure skill at work, drivers running inches away from the armco for almost 80 (I think) laps. Ok, so there's the occasional crash which is really awesome but it lacks the new found essence of the sport, the car passing the car specifically designed to be passed... and that's why I think it's horrible. Now we will see the drs is just not good enough. I hope after Monaco they will start talking about the ADS. Imagine the drivers keeps trying to pass but still can't, even with the DRS. If the DRS doesn't produce results for 5 laps then the ADS button is activated. How does it work? The driver behind will push a button that will deploy a parachute from the other car's a$$.... I think added drag system is going to be just awesome dudes.

[SGWilko]

It's a horrible track. We want overtaking. Lots of it. We don't care it's not real.... I just want to jump up and down like a monkey because cars are passing each other. Why would I watch this race? Just to see pure skill at work, drivers running inches away from the armco for almost 80 (I think) laps. Ok, so there's the occasional crash which is really awesome but it lacks the new found essence of the sport, the car passing the car specifically designed to be passed... and that's why I think it's horrible. Now we will see the drs is just not good enough. I hope after Monaco they will start talking about the ADS. Imagine the drivers keeps trying to pass but still can't, even with the DRS. If the DRS doesn't produce results for 5 laps then the ADS button is activated. How does it work? The driver behind will push a button that will deploy a parachute from the other car's a$$.... I think added drag system is going to be just awesome dudes.

You forget to add that you would like to see the drivers sitting all in a circle on the grid sharing a crack pipe just before the start.....

[Mark]

DRS won't be a big factor, but drivers doing their mandatory 12 stops per race might well be.

[SGWilko]

DRS won't be a big factor, but drivers doing their mandatory 12 stops per race might well be.

If the super soft falls apart - off line in the principality is going to be lethal.....

[Sonic]

I'm gonna miss the Kube this weekend. He was truly inspired last year in a way that all the best drivers are - no matter how pants their car.

[Dave B]

The FIA have confirmed that DRS will indeed be banned in tht tunnel:



The FIA will lay down a ban on DRS between two points on the Monaco circuit - distance markers 1350m and 2020m - which is the area around the tunnel.

DRS use will be free elsewhere and the overtaking zone will be laid out on the start-finish straight - because the more obvious tunnel area was too dangerous.


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91681

[Rollo]

Monaco is tight and difficult but the fact remains that it is the closest set of conditions that the cars get to what normal people experience on a day to day basis.

Open up the field to 140 entrants and really plug up the circuit. If we in the real world in our Clios, Astrae, Focii and Prii have to deal with doing 10mph in short bursts, then what makes people on more money a weekend than the rest of us make in a year, suddenly above the rigours of normal driving.

If we realy want to find who the best drivers are, then they should be tested under a range of conditions; for that reason Monaco despite being slow and at times dull, is an essential even on the calendar.

[AndyL]

If the super soft falls apart - off line in the principality is going to be lethal.....

The debut of the red- and white-banded tyres does give another element of uncertainty... but based on what we've seen so far, the super-softs will probably last no worse than the others but be 1s a lap quicker ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

Monaco is tight and difficult but the fact remains that it is the closest set of conditions that the cars get to what normal people experience on a day to day basis.
That's the thing for Monaco for me. Having walked and been around the circuit in a road car myself I find it astonishing that racing drivers can do one lap, let alone more, in a F1 car without bouncing off the kerbs or barriers at every turn.

It may not provide us with the most exciting race of the year, although it is capable of that, but watch the speed & commitment of the drivers through the swimming pool complex for example and you know that you're watching something spectacular and exceptional.

As for races needing overtaking:

-O8yn5gb25c

[Dave B]

The debut of the red- and white-banded tyres does give another element of uncertainty... but based on what we've seen so far, the super-softs will probably last no worse than the others but be 1s a lap quicker ;)
Dammit I was just getting used to "knife and butter", now I've got to remember it's "bread and jam" this weekend!

[UltimateDanGTR]

Strange suggestion, but anyone who doesn't like monaco just because there's never much overtaking I point in the direction of Formula One games. Have a go at a few laps round the place, and you'll understand why Monaco is so special.

[ioan]

DRS won't be a big factor, but drivers doing their mandatory 12 stops per race might well be.

:D
Given that they only have 7 sets of tires for the whole race there will be some very very slow laps in this race.

[AndyL]

Dammit I was just getting used to "knife and butter", now I've got to remember it's "bread and jam" this weekend!

Great mnemonics! Do you have one for the wets and inters?

[ioan]

As for races needing overtaking:

-O8yn5gb25c

What? Those stupid engineers back in the day, how couldn't they realize that they should have had DRS in order to have great racing?!
I can't believe it that it took them 20 years to find the 'holly grail' of racing! :p

[jens]

I think Renault and Mercedes could have a strong weekend. But Renault will be missing Kubica, who has been a real ace around that street circuit. I think also Ferrari may have one of its strongest races of 2011 so far. Then again McLaren could struggle with its long wheelbase like they did last year.

[airshifter]

As much as I like to see passes being made on a legitimate basis, the procession of Monaco is still exciting to watch. With the short lived tires I expect to see some epic battles for time and strategy at the front of the pack.

[steveaki13]

Thing is around Monaco, if one driver loses his tyres the cars in the train behind, can lose 4 or 5 seconds a lap, opening gaps quickly for cars ahead.

Making the race a real tactical battle.

After all you cannot pit too early and get held up, as you have no chance of breezing past others on fresh tyres and the undercut as they call it, will be wiped out.

So at all times after stops the drivers will need clear air. I think it could be crazy.

[steveaki13]

By the way, anyone reckon we could be in for another 1996. With uncertainty over tyres and people stuck in crawling traffic jams and marbles meaning any mistake could mean your eating barrier.

Put all this in and the drivers will have to be supreme to keep it out of the walls.

4 Cars finished the 1996 races on track after the 78 laps. Lets see if we have another low finishing number.

If I remember rightly too last year only 12 finished the race, probably the lowest total of finishers in 2010.

[F1boat]

In 1996 the race was extremely wet.

[truefan72]

What? Those stupid engineers back in the day, how couldn't they realize that they should have had DRS in order to have great racing?!
I can't believe it that it took them 20 years to find the 'holly grail' of racing! :p

the fact that mansel with a quicker car ( or as a quicker driver) could not get past senna and basically had to follow him around with no chance to overtake does not make for a thrilling race IMO. I remember that race very well and it was almost magical how mansel caught up to senna. but I knew once he did that was it for the race.

Undoubtedly some will point out that other great races have ended with the 2nd car not making it past the leading car like msc and alonso in san marino, but at least in that circuit you can overtake, and thus the edge-of-your-seat aspect is even higher. Monaco is a iconic fixture on the calendar, but rarely produces races that are memorable. The modern F1 car is too fast, too nimble, too wide and too efficient for this track

[steveaki13]

According to Martin Brundle on twitter. A pick up truck caught fire at turn 1 St. Devote and they were urgently repairing the area yesterday.

http://yfrog.com/h31umzdj

[The Black Knight]

In 1996 the race was extremely wet.

Yep, the GP with the fewest finishers. Only 7 finished. Quality race.

[steveaki13]

Yep, the GP with the fewest finishers. Only 7 finished. Quality race.

7 were classified, but Hakkinen, Irvine and Salo all retired with 5 laps to go. So although classified only 4 were still running in the last few laps.

[The Black Knight]

7 were classified, but Hakkinen, Irvine and Salo all retired with 5 laps to go. So although classified only 4 were still running in the last few laps.


Ah yes, you are correct :)

[steveaki13]

Ah yes, you are correct :)

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

[The Black Knight]

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

Thanks Aki :) Looking forward to posting here.

[Ranger]

Yep, the GP with the fewest finishers. Only 7 finished. Quality race.

The whole race on Eurosport is still on youtube for anyone who is interested!

Pretty chaotic.

[The Black Knight]

The whole race on Eurosport is still on youtube for anyone who is interested!

Pretty chaotic.

The entire thing? :O Class! I must check that out later.

I have the entire 3 hour 1996 season review that Eurosport did at the end of the year on tape at home. They did some fantastic coverage in their day. I still feel that Ben Edwards and John Watson made a fantastic duo in the commentary box.

[CNR]

According to Martin Brundle on twitter. A pick up truck caught fire at turn 1 St. Devote and they were urgently repairing the area yesterday.

http://yfrog.com/h31umzdj

http://www.planet-f1.com/driver/18227/6951174/Monaco-surface-damaged-by-truck-fire


A section of asphalt had already been replaced by Wednesday afternoon, but organisers are worried that it will not have enough time to dry properly before practice on Thursday morning.

[ArrowsFA1]

If you haven't seen it, or even if you have, this is a good excuse to see this again :s mokin:

ExG9eNDHG9E

[Ranger]

The entire thing? :O Class! I must check that out later.

I have the entire 3 hour 1996 season review that Eurosport did at the end of the year on tape at home. They did some fantastic coverage in their day. I still feel that Ben Edwards and John Watson made a fantastic duo in the commentary box.

Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BS-xH6ceqw)
Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA5BIhVs5uE&feature=related)
Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb1Typscods&feature=related)
Part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDFdFAvUmNQ&feature=related)
Part 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ3QLPshi3w&feature=related)
Part 6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8p7IAZhVfM&feature=related)
Part 7 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FoBcRNPKHg&feature=related)
Part 8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD_GTLMzs9I&feature=related)
Part 9 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oMSCQk_CzU&feature=related)
Part 10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qalz6GgtKYw&feature=related)
Part 11 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7Ejz89lR5E&feature=related)
Final Part (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxsd6rnaW08&feature=related)

Check it out sooner rather than later. You never know if/when FOM will delete it.

[Dave B]

The DRS zone has been announced - subject to change of course. Here's a link to the map as a PDF:
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/mco-circuit.pdf

[The Black Knight]

Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BS-xH6ceqw)
Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA5BIhVs5uE&feature=related)
Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb1Typscods&feature=related)
Part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDFdFAvUmNQ&feature=related)
Part 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ3QLPshi3w&feature=related)
Part 6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8p7IAZhVfM&feature=related)
Part 7 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FoBcRNPKHg&feature=related)
Part 8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD_GTLMzs9I&feature=related)
Part 9 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oMSCQk_CzU&feature=related)
Part 10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qalz6GgtKYw&feature=related)
Part 11 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7Ejz89lR5E&feature=related)
Final Part (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxsd6rnaW08&feature=related)

Check it out sooner rather than later. You never know if/when FOM will delete it.

Will do. Thanks :)

[F1boat]

1996 is probably my favorite Monaco race, although when I watched I was gutted to see Damon retiring.

[UltimateDanGTR]

1996 is probably my favorite Monaco race, although when I watched I was gutted to see Damon retiring.

but you knew that was gonna happen :p

[Zico]

I dont care that we will have next to no overtaking this coming weekend, Monaco is just such an awesome track, its the unmissable event of the year for me, so narrow and tight which makes the in-car footage so spectacular.

Jens- you mentioned the longer wheelbase hurting McLaren this weekend, Im not convinced it will hurt them that much, They (McLaren) do put their power down better out the slower corners and there is little in the way of mid to high speed sections where the Red Bulls are usually so superior. They also have 'something good' for Monaco according to Hamilton.

Im wondering what odds I'd get at the bookies for a Lewis pole and race victory. ;)

[truefan72]

The DRS zone has been announced - subject to change of course. Here's a link to the map as a PDF:
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/mco-circuit.pdf

hmm interesting, but probably the best place
they should have 2 DRS zones though with the additional one between turns 1 and 3 IMO

[steveaki13]

If you haven't seen it, or even if you have, this is a good excuse to see this again :s mokin:

ExG9eNDHG9E

That is before my time, but I have seen and read about it of course.

Every time you see it you have to remind yourself of how quickly that all happened.

Awesome.

[The Black Knight]

1996 is probably my favorite Monaco race, although when I watched I was gutted to see Damon retiring.

Being a Schuey fan I was gutted to see him retiring on the first lap. And he would have had 4 Monaco wins in a row had he managed it.

But I would have liked to see Damon winning that race also. He deserved it and drove supremely well till his retirement.

[Sonic]

In 1996 the race was extremely wet.

Class event. Was it also the race where Schumacher raced the McLaren? Or rather DC was forced to use Schu's back up skid lid ;) Still a weird sight, the white, yellow and red (as it was in those days) helmet in the red and white McLaren.

[truefan72]

good to see the hrt running around trouble free for once
and with no other car on track, its the star for now!

[Dave B]

Red flag while they inspect and repair a leak!

[AndyL]

Red flag while they inspect and repair a leak!

The FIA deny rumours that they found Bernie hiding behind the barriers with a hose.

[BDunnell]

The FIA deny rumours that they found Bernie hiding behind the barriers with a hose.

Splendid.

[The Black Knight]

Silly mistake from Schumacher at the end of session. Won't lose him much time overall though.

McLaren looking strong. They may very well be contenders for pole this weekend. Let us hope. If anyone can do it, Lewis Hamilton can.

[truefan72]

Silly mistake from Schumacher at the end of session. Won't lose him much time overall though.

McLaren looking strong. They may very well be contenders for pole this weekend. Let us hope. If anyone can do it, Lewis Hamilton can.

yep, that would be great but rsoberg and alonso are looking mighty as well

the best part is that the RBR's aren't shining so far. Although they might be sandbagging it a bit

[The Black Knight]

yep, that would be great but rsoberg and alonso are looking mighty as well

the best part is that the RBR's aren't shining so far. Although they might be sandbagging it a bit

Rosberg looks great from the times. Schumacher looks woeful.

Hamilton looks mighty. I doubt Alonso will be in with a shout at pole. I'd be very impressed if he were.

[AndyL]

Some impressive lap counts in the afternoon session, a lot of people did 40-50 laps. Not bad on one set of softs and one set of super-softs. Long strategy could be a viable option.

[christophulus]

HRT looking exceptionally slow this weekend, way outside the 107% in both sessions. Slower than the top GP2 qualifying times too!

[Sonic]

HRT looking exceptionally slow this weekend, way outside the 107% in both sessions. Slower than the top GP2 qualifying times too!

NK looks particularly out of his depth. 7 seconds off! In a 2 mile, 75s lap! Jaaaaysus.

[Dave B]

Hispania's best time would put them 4th on the GP2 grid!

[Hawkmoon]

A lot of people were critical of the 107% rule not so long ago. It'll be interesting to see how they feel now given how slow the HRTs appear to be.

[Robinho]

I'd have thought the retarded engine blown diffuser would be worth more here than anywhere else, given the amount of time the cars are off throttle and the amount of slow speed corners - I'd therefore expect the HRT and other cosworth teams to struggle as a result.

The other issue could simply be that HRT have not a lot of spares and not a lot of cash and therefore have asked the drivers to leave a margin until they need to push 100% in qually, they simply can't afford to destroy a car in thursday practice.

Then again, a dog of a car is going to struggle here more than anywhere i guess as poor handling will provide zero confidence for the drivers to push

[The Black Knight]

I'd have thought the retarded engine blown diffuser would be worth more here than anywhere else, given the amount of time the cars are off throttle and the amount of slow speed corners - I'd therefore expect the HRT and other cosworth teams to struggle as a result.

The other issue could simply be that HRT have not a lot of spares and not a lot of cash and therefore have asked the drivers to leave a margin until they need to push 100% in qually, they simply can't afford to destroy a car in thursday practice.

Then again, a dog of a car is going to struggle here more than anywhere i guess as poor handling will provide zero confidence for the drivers to push

I expect both HRT’s will be allowed to race. Imagine Kolles choosing to not lodge a complaint over the blown diffusers and then not being allowed into the race on Sunday? He could say that were it not for the blown diffusers his team would have qualified within the 107% rule and since no one knows how much benefit teams are really getting from the blown diffusers I'd imagine it would be a hard one to argue against.

I’d say if they are outside the 107% rule they will be allowed to race. Either that or, if I were him, I’d lodge a complaint with the FIA over the blown diffusers.

[Anubis]

Having watched the mayhem that was GP2 qualifying, if HRT are outside 107%, they shouldn't be allowed to race, here more than anywhere. Would you want to encounter a dawdling HRT as you turn through the first part of the Swimming Pool completely unsighted?

[ShiftingGears]

GP2 Qualifying was absolutely disgraceful.

[P3ws]

Memorable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wkB6sLUT50&feature=player_detailpage

[jens]

GP2 Qualifying was absolutely disgraceful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm2BMM71S14
To whoever hasn't seen yet. :laugh: Grosjean didn't even get a proper timed lap as there was always roadblock in front of him. Crazy crazy stuff.

Race was a bit messy too. One of the highlights of this GP2 event - both iSport drivers have crashed into each other. :D

[ioan]

the fact that mansel with a quicker car ( or as a quicker driver) could not get past senna and basically had to follow him around with no chance to overtake does not make for a thrilling race IMO.

Au contraire, it was great racing. If Mansell would have breezed by with DRS then there would have been no racing at all.

Anyway it is obvious that we do not have the same definition for what racing is about.

[ioan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm2BMM71S14
To whoever hasn't seen yet. :laugh: Grosjean didn't even get a proper timed lap as there was always roadblock in front of him. Crazy crazy stuff.

Race was a bit messy too. One of the highlights of this GP2 event - both iSport drivers have crashed into each other. :D

GP2 field = bunch of idiots.

[steveaki13]

Class event. Was it also the race where Schumacher raced the McLaren? Or rather DC was forced to use Schu's back up skid lid ;) Still a weird sight, the white, yellow and red (as it was in those days) helmet in the red and white McLaren.

Yep.

I know its late, but just for you Sonic.

http://static.blogo.it/motorsportblog/coulthard_casco_schui.jpg

[airshifter]

It will be an interesting qually session. Hard to say if RB were sandbagging, but my guess is that they were. I was shocked at some of the long runs by some drivers. It looks like even the super softs have some life in them, and strategy could play a huge role in the race.

[F1boat]

Red Bull always go fast in FP1, in FP2, not so much and in qualy they again strike hard. However, today it will be a lot closer than in Barcelona, IMO. Which, BTW, means nothing. In Malaysia the qualy was very close and look what happened in the race. In China and Spain the gap was huge and the races were very close.

[steveaki13]

We should get a busy Qualifying here today, as no one can only do 1 run and save tyres for the race.

This is one of the few races this year where like the old days Qualifying will be key.

On most other tracks with the exception of maybe Hungary you can now pass with fresher tyres.

Not here so expect two full runs in Q3

[N4D13]

Rosberg has crashed in FP3 and he's basically destroyed his car. Will he be able to do qualifying? Mercedes will only have [less than] three hours to repair his car, so it looks unlikely.

[truefan72]

OMG nasty crash by Rosberg
thankfully he walks away
could have been really bad if he hit that barrier

man Monaco is not his track
I hope he'll be ready for Q1

[ioan]

Liuzzi writes of a HRT car, way to go Tonio! On the positive side he can watch the race tomorrow from the deck of a yacht if he wants to.

[steveaki13]

Both Rosberg and especially Liuzzi will struggle to get there cars repaired by Q1.

On a positive note, both Hispania's were well within a 107% time this morning.

[Koz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm2BMM71S14
To whoever hasn't seen yet. :laugh: Grosjean didn't even get a proper timed lap as there was always roadblock in front of him. Crazy crazy stuff.

Race was a bit messy too. One of the highlights of this GP2 event - both iSport drivers have crashed into each other. :D

WOW!

[BDunnell]

Au contraire, it was great racing. If Mansell would have breezed by with DRS then there would have been no racing at all.

I couldn't agree more. The fact that he didn't pass in spite of trying so, so hard made it all the more exciting.

[BDunnell]

Liuzzi writes of a HRT car, way to go Tonio! On the positive side he can watch the race tomorrow from the deck of a yacht if he wants to.

The yacht may be able to lap faster than the HRT.

[ioan]

The yacht may be able to lap faster than the HRT.

:D

[ioan]

Alguersuari shot himself in the foot like a GP2 driver he looks to be.

[ShiftingGears]

Perez and Maldonado most impressive in Q1.

[Dave B]

Rosberg most impressive for me so far.

[ioan]

:eek: Perez and Maldonado qualified for Q3, while Petrov, Barichello, Kobayashi and Heidfeld didn't make it!

[wedge]

Rosberg most impressive for me so far.

Not as impressive as Di Resta

[ioan]

That looks bad for Perez. Hope he is OK.

[ShiftingGears]

That looks like a nasty impact - I hope Perez is okay. I was just thinking after seeing Rosbergs crash how bad an impact there would be.

[Ranger]

That looks bad for Perez. Hope he is OK.

That was huge. Is he out of the car yet?

[Ranger]

Shades of Karl Wendlinger's crash in 1994 - he was in a coma for weeks.

Hope Sergio is ok.

EDIT: Concious and talking. :up: Hope there's no other injuries.

[Koz]

Damn... Hope he is alright.

[Daniel]

Scary stuff

[ioan]

That was huge. Is he out of the car yet?

Still in the car. Not answering radio calls. And those white sheets make me nervous.

[Dave B]

Horrid accident, illustrates how lucky Nico was this morning. Crowd now cheering so hopefully Sergio is ok.

[Daniel]

Out of the car now.

[Daniel]

Car looks intactish

[ioan]

He's in the ambulance now, but no way to know if he's OK.

The race organizers have to remove that bump there, it if effing dangerous.

[Daniel]

Aarently conscious and talking

[ioan]

Apparently he is conscious.

Edit: Perez is talking and complaining about pain in one of his legs, probably the right leg.

[Rollo]

That looks like a nasty impact - I hope Perez is okay. I was just thinking after seeing Rosbergs crash how bad an impact there would be.

How the heck did you see that? I was watching on OneHD online and like every single quali session and GP this year, the live stream failed.
The funny thing was that there was an apology online, and that also failed. OneHD's website even managed to fail even while failing.

[ShiftingGears]

How the heck did you see that?

They had about 5-10 minutes of practice highlights before they broadcast qualifying on tv.

[Ranger]

How the heck did you see that? I was watching on OneHD online and like every single quali session and GP this year, the live stream failed.
The funny thing was that there was an apology online, and that also failed. OneHD's website even managed to fail even while failing.

It was in the 10 minute preview to qualifying on OneHD. Not sure about online but it was on tv.

[Dave B]

Session will restart at h:35

[Daniel]

About to go live

[Daniel]

Lewis letting his tyres cool down

[truefan72]

stupid mclaren arrogance once again not getting a banker lap in for hamilton
I don't know what was bothering him that he had to get out of the car, but I'm pissed
oh well, it better be a brilliant start tomorrow

[Dave B]

TV direction as crap as ever, missed the end of Lewis' lap. Strange session. Let's hope for good news.

[Dave B]

stupid mclaren arrogance once again not getting a banker lap in for hamilton
I don't know what was bothering him that he had to get out of the car, but I'm pissed
oh well, it better be a brilliant start tomorrow
He had a technical problem with the car.

[ioan]

Good to see, none of them celebrating qualy result.

[Zico]

Really dissapointing finale and an absolute disaster for Hamilton, he could easily have had P2 at least.

At least Perez is ok.

[Daniel]

stupid mclaren arrogance once again not getting a banker lap in for hamilton
I don't know what was bothering him that he had to get out of the car, but I'm pissed
oh well, it better be a brilliant start tomorrow

Yes because we all knew there was going to be a crash.....

[steveaki13]

Its always a danger around Monaco that an incident prevents you setting a time, so I would always set a time early.

However if Hamilton had issues then he was just unlucky.

That accident for Perez was scarey, just shows how lucky Rosberg was this morning.

Similar accident to Coulthard and Button in recent years, but that corner has been changed a few times over the last 20 years.
At one point the barrier was right on the chicane I seem to remember, then in moved back a bit and then further back to its currant position.

Better hitting that Rubber Barrier than Armco or the tree's just behind.

Lets hope its not too bad for Sergio.

I don't think he will be racing tomorrow.

[steveaki13]

On another issue, which is obviously a minor one after Perez crash, but when do we know if Hispania's have been stopped from racing or not.

I think they have not done enough this weekend to prove they should be able to race.

[Zico]

Good news! The full statement from Sauber..

‘It was with great relief the Sauber F1 Team received the news that Sergio Pérez has no serious injuries after his heavy accident in the closing minutes of the final part of qualifying for the Monaco Grand Prix. Shortly before 15:00 hrs he had crashed into the barrier after the fast tunnel section of the circuit.

The 21-year-old Mexican was taken to the Hospital Princess Grace in Monaco from where the team received further information at 16:25 hrs: The doctors said Pérez had suffered concussion and a sprained thigh, but no broken bones and, following a scan, they could find no further injuries.

The reason for the accident will be investigated and the team will update the media as soon as it has any further information.’

[N4D13]

Hamilton's time has been deleted for cutting the chicane, so he'll start from ninth (assuming that Pérez wouldn't race).

[truefan72]

Yes because we all knew there was going to be a crash.....

...and that is why you get a banker in
as he said in his comments;
"With hindsight, we probably should have put a banker in. I felt I’d been driving well all weekend and I had the pace to be on pole – I’m certain of that, in fact."

and neither he nor Whitemarsh mentioned any technical problem with the car
they simply wanted to do one run in the only race on the calendar where one run in Qualy gives you no advantage
that's why I'm annoyed. This was a self inficted wound and ensures he will start the race in a huge disadvantage from his competition and more importantly his closest rival Vettel. Who he should have been covering instead of trying to outsmart themselves.

[Dave B]

Hearing reports that docs have refused Perez permission to race. Hardly surprising, but fantastic that he wants to. Car's a bag of bolts but plenty of time until Canada and the most important thing is that Sergio is doing fine.

[Daniel]

...and that is why you get a banker in
as he said in his comments;
"With hindsight, we probably should have put a banker in. I felt I’d been driving well all weekend and I had the pace to be on pole – I’m certain of that, in fact."

and neither he nor Whitemarsh mentioned any technical problem with the car
they simply wanted to do one run in the only race on the calendar where one run in Qualy gives you no advantage
that's why I'm annoyed. This was a self inficted wound and ensures he will start the race in a huge disadvantage from his competition and more importantly his closest rival Vettel. Who he should have been covering instead of trying to outsmart themselves.
But if he'd put a lap in and wasted tyres and the accident hadn't happened then he'd compromise the race....

[Dave B]

HRT given dispensation to start tomorrow.

[UltimateDanGTR]

interesting question; because Hamilton's best and only recorded time in Q3 was deleted, does this mean he gets to start on whatever tyres he wishes? Or will the stewards make him start on the tyres he set his deleted time on?

[F1boat]

I am happy that Perez is OK, that was one scary accident.

[N4D13]

But if he'd put a lap in and wasted tyres and the accident hadn't happened then he'd compromise the race....
He's hardly going to compromise the race that way. Tyres aren't a major factor in Monaco, and their lifespan is high enough not to have a significant effect on the race by doing two more qualifying laps. So I'd think that it was quite a big mistake not to put a banker in.

And the question that has been raised is really important - will he be able to start the race on less-soft tyres? He could pull off an interesting strategy tomorrow.

[Robinho]

just as well Rosberg did have his accident, as they took out the speed humps in the middle of the chicane - had Perez hit them whilst sideways and heading at the barrier at that many mph, he would have been in the air and coming at the barriers head first. Scary stuff, although it has to be said the car and the barriers did their job and saved Perez from much more damage.

Real pity though, Perez was looking quick even though the car looked to be a real handful.

[Roamy]

stupid ass race track - the cars have far exceeded the safety of the track. Lets hope all turns out well tomorrow.

[ioan]

But if he'd put a lap in and wasted tyres and the accident hadn't happened then he'd compromise the race....

Wasted the tires if he put in an early great lap? Why?

[ioan]

Funny how Hamilton believes he could have gotten pole when RBR have been sandbagging the whole week end right up until it really mattered.

[truefan72]

Hearing reports that docs have refused Perez permission to race. Hardly surprising, but fantastic that he wants to. Car's a bag of bolts but plenty of time until Canada and the most important thing is that Sergio is doing fine.


I think in case of an accident, teams should be allowed to field a 3rd driver for the race

[truefan72]

Funny how Hamilton believes he could have gotten pole when RBR have been sandbagging the whole week end right up until it really mattered.

the difference between button and vettel is 4/10ths and hamilton is usually that much quicker than button,
thee was nothing between vettel and hamilton i the first 2 sessions and all indications pointed to either one of them getting pole
so I hardly think his thoughts on that matter were far off.

[truefan72]

But if he'd put a lap in and wasted tyres and the accident hadn't happened then he'd compromise the race....

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/28052011/58/hamilton-strategy-error-cost.html
that about says it all

"It wasn't the waiting in the pitlane, it was the strategy [we took]," said the 2008 world champion. I think we've been going well all weekend and I had the pace for pole; I'm certain about that.
"... - and I know they didn't either that in Monaco you can't take risks in leaving it [your lap] right to the end.
"You have to get out and get in a banker, like everyone else did. With racing experience you'd assume that most people would have that, but I guess other things were going on and we didn't have that. It's my worst Q3 for a long time."

[Daniel]

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/28052011/58/hamilton-strategy-error-cost.html
that about says it all


hindsight = wonderful thing :)

[truefan72]

hindsight = wonderful thing :)

did you read the article
it basically refutes your argument and clearly indicates, As I stated, that it was their poor strategy that cost them
how you believe your own version of things then when presented with the compelling truth you somehow manage to take the words from the direct source as somehow a hindsight thing, whilst still clinging on to your version of how the events played out in their minds,
wow LOL

[airshifter]

did you read the article
it basically refutes your argument and clearly indicates, As I stated, that it was their poor strategy that cost them
how you believe your own version of things then when presented with the compelling truth you somehow manage to take the words from the direct source as somehow a hindsight thing, whilst still clinging on to your version of how the events played out in their minds,
wow LOL

The quotes in the article are from after qualification was over, thus hindsight.

It's only assumption that strategy alone is what cost them. They could have went out early and been in traffic, or had a bad lap. Just as you can't assume Monaco will be accident free during qually, you can't assume every lap will be a quickest lap at the top of the grid.

You also left out these quotes from the article:

"Engineers advise that we should do one [run] at the end of Q3 and I didn't contest it. You always have to take a balanced view with the engineers."

"I definitely didn't take into account - and I know they didn't either that in Monaco you can't take risks in leaving it [your lap] right to the end."


Do you really think with unlimited race tires they would have taken that gamble?

[N4D13]

I think in case of an accident, teams should be allowed to field a 3rd driver for the race
As far as I know, they can, but only if that driver has driven in one of the sessions (i.e. FP1). Am I right? I'm not really sure.

[Mark]

I think that only applies if an incident has occurred before qualy.

[Dave B]

A quick update on Perez:



Sergio Perez has spent a "good night" in hospital according to Sauber and will be released later today or tomorrow.

SPEED's Will Buxton says they're trying to get him released in time to come and watch the race! Top man.

[ioan]

Jenson complains about heavy steering.

[ioan]

Awful start by Schumacher.

Hamilton tried to put him in the wall at the start, and then he complains about contact?

[Mark]

Don't forget the chat on the front page!

[ioan]

Nice move by Rubens.
Time for MS to change tires.

[ioan]

Don't forget the chat on the front page!

Thanks.

[Hawkmoon]

A touch optimistic from Hamilton at the hairpin.

[Daniel]

A touch optimistic from Hamilton at the hairpin.

You can driving into someone and then blaming them optimistic? ;)

[Dave B]

If DiResta got a penalty then surely Hamilton should too for his move on Massa

[Daniel]

If DiResta got a penalty then surely Hamilton should too for his move on Massa


Definitely.

[Hawkmoon]

You can driving into someone and then blaming them optimistic? ;)

I was being diplomatic. :)

[Hawkmoon]

Bloody commercials on Channel 10! They had one under the safety car and then go for another 2 laps after the restart! Idiots.

[Daniel]

I was being diplomatic. :)

Just say what you think :) I think it was a retarded move from Lewis.......

[Dave B]

Red flag, Vettel wins

[Hawkmoon]

Not yet. They're going to restart.

[Alfa Fan]

Nope why? It will restart! I don't understand why anyone would think that would be the end of it??

[Dave B]

Scratch that - race WILL be resumed! :eek:

[Daniel]

Poor racing from Hamilton. I would expect more from a driver to back off after the apex like that, he was well away from Sutil/

[Hawkmoon]

If they can change Hamilton's wing, can they also change tyres?

[Dave B]

If they can change Hamilton's wing, can they also change tyres?
Think so - it's a race, not in parc fermé conditions so I can't see why not.

[Alfa Fan]

If they can change Hamilton's wing, can they also change tyres?

Yes.

[Hawkmoon]

They can change tyres. Vettel's a lucky *******.

[Dave B]

So is Koby!

[Dave B]

Nope why? It will restart! I don't understand why anyone would think that would be the end of it??

Because over 75% of the race has been run hence full points, there's concern over damage to the Armco and debris on track, and I thought that maybe safety would take priority over entertainment. Hey ho.

[Hawkmoon]

I like this race but these cars have no business running around here anymore. No other place would get away with the safety standards as they are at Monaco. They've butchered many a track in the name of safety yet Monaco remains untouchable.

[Alfa Fan]

75% only comes in if there's going to be a problem restarting the race, usually when we've stopped for torrential rain / darkness. None of these factors apply. Technically we have another four hours minimum to run this race. 75% is irrelevant to restarting the race. It only makes a difference on the points awarded.

[AndyL]

We were on for a great finish... could be a bit of an anticlimax with everyone on fresh tyres.

[AndyL]

The clock stops on the two hour time limit during a red flag, right?

[Daniel]

Because over 75% of the race has been run hence full points, there's concern over damage to the Armco and debris on track, and I thought that maybe safety would take priority over entertainment. Hey ho.

:up:

[Daniel]

75% only comes in if there's going to be a problem restarting the race, usually when we've stopped for torrential rain / darkness. None of these factors apply. Technically we have another four hours minimum to run this race. 75% is irrelevant to restarting the race. It only makes a difference on the points awarded.

I agree, who cares about the safety :rolleyes:

[Dave B]

I like this race but these cars have no business running around here anymore. No other place would get away with the safety standards as they are at Monaco. They've butchered many a track in the name of safety yet Monaco remains untouchable.
This.

[Hawkmoon]

What odds on Kobayashi throwing one up the inside of Button?

[AndyL]

What odds on Kobayashi throwing one up the inside of Button?

Won't there be quite a few back-markers between them?

[Hawkmoon]

Won't there be quite a few back-markers between them?

Forgot about that. Pity. It could have been fun.

[Alfa Fan]

Safety Car . More crap Hamilton driving

[Hawkmoon]

Plenty of choices for donkey this race.

[tfp]

lady luck playing into vettels hands again.

[Tumbo]

more like Lady Donkey helping out Vettel - definitely driving like an impatient little kid today is Hamilton rather than a seasoned former champion who has been taking the fight to the championship leader

[tfp]

its not right though, mclaren saved their tyres for the whole race, red bull take a chance with only one stop, then luckily for them there was the accident so they get a free stop.

[Daniel]

its not right though, mclaren saved their tyres for the whole race, red bull take a chance with only one stop, then luckily for them there was the accident so they get a free stop.

I agree. Based on what's "right" Vettel should be given a penalty and Button should win because it's "right" :rotflmao:

Being sarcastic btw.....

[ShiftingGears]

Slightly annoyed that we didn't to see what would've been a very tense ending, but such is motor racing.

[ioan]

Well, I am impressed with how long Vettel was out on those soft tires while Button went for 3 stops.

[steveaki13]

A crazy race, its concerning to see two drivers in ambulances after the Monaco weekend. Luckily they both only seem to have minor injuries.

[Dave B]

Update on Petrov:


Once at hospital, it was confirmed that there was no swelling or broken bone. As a precaution, Vitaly will undergo a full body scan but he should be back in the paddock within a few hours.



http://lotusrenaultgp.com/5263-Update-on-Vitaly-s-condition.html

[Dave B]

Petrov's ankle, if you'd like to see it (via OfficialLRGP (http://yfrog.com/user/OfficialLRGP/profile)):
http://yfrog.com/hsjyfjej

[ioan]

Petrov's ankle, if you'd like to see it (via OfficialLRGP (http://yfrog.com/user/OfficialLRGP/profile)):
http://yfrog.com/hsjyfjej

Looks OK. He can race in 2 weeks time. :p

[BDunnell]

lady luck playing into vettels hands again.

I think, in the circumstances later in the race, it would have been an injustice had he not won.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

When Button was behind Vettel after the first safety car Red Bull said on the radio 'keep Button behind for 10 laps'. Was this because they were planning to pit Vettel or because they expected Button to pit in 10 laps?

[Dave B]

20 second penalty for Hamilton, which doesn't change his finishing position.

[janneppi]

When Button was behind Vettel after the first safety car Red Bull said on the radio 'keep Button behind for 10 laps'. Was this because they were planning to pit Vettel or because they expected Button to pit in 10 laps?
Button was on super softs, so his speed would have died down a bit after 10 laps.

[ioan]

When Button was behind Vettel after the first safety car Red Bull said on the radio 'keep Button behind for 10 laps'. Was this because they were planning to pit Vettel or because they expected Button to pit in 10 laps?

They didn't tell him 'keep Button behind for 10 laps'.
They told him to keep Button behind at all cost and that the first 10 laps of it will be difficult.

[The Black Knight]

Safety Car . More crap Hamilton driving

Hamilton clearly wasn't at fault for the safety car incident.

[Daniel]

Hamilton clearly wasn't at fault for the safety car incident.

No?

Backing off when Sutil was a fair way ahead didn't cause the pileup?
http://oi51.tinypic.com/30ijsc2.jpg

[ioan]

You're losing time, Hamy die hard fans know that he's never at fault, never ever! ;)

[The Black Knight]

No?

Backing off when Sutil was a fair way ahead didn't cause the pileup?
http://oi51.tinypic.com/30ijsc2.jpg

Sutil has lost his right rear tyre. Had Hamilton continued he would have been alongside Sutil and the Force India could have gone anywhere on the track with at tyre missing. Hamilton was making sure he didn't hit him. It was a racing incident.

[ioan]

Sutil has lost his right rear tyre. Had Hamilton continued he would have been alongside Sutil and the Force India could have gone anywhere on the track with at tyre missing. Hamilton was making sure he didn't hit him. It was a racing incident.

Rubbish, a F1 car on 3 wheels is still rather easy to control at slow speeds like Sutil was driving at. We saw it several times that drivers can easily drive almost full lap around on 3 wheels to get a new tire or wheel without making mistakes.

The excuses for Hamilton's poor judgement are hilarious!

[The Black Knight]

Rubbish, a F1 car on 3 wheels is still rather easy to control at slow speeds like Sutil was driving at. We saw it several times that drivers can easily drive almost full lap around on 3 wheels to get a new tire or wheel without making mistakes.

The excuses for Hamilton's poor judgement are hilarious!

Sutil was sliding across the track in front of Hamilton. He had no choice but to brake. This is obvious. It was a racing incident, no more.

[donKey jote]

No?

Backing off when Sutil was a fair way ahead didn't cause the pileup?
http://oi51.tinypic.com/30ijsc2.jpg

yuck, a Samsung :eek: :eek: :p

[ioan]

Sutil was sliding across the track in front of Hamilton. He had no choice but to brake. This is obvious. It was a racing incident, no more.

Sutil was not sliding anyway, watch that image he was driving straight ahead with all 3 wheels.

[ioan]

yuck, a Samsung :eek: :eek: :p

Could have been worse.

[Daniel]

yuck, a Samsung :eek: :eek: :p

It's a nice TV :p 40 inches of LED backlit goodness :p

[Daniel]

Sutil was sliding across the track in front of Hamilton. He had no choice but to brake. This is obvious. It was a racing incident, no more.

How about perhaps not braking quite so much? That was an option..... he had space to do it......

[The Black Knight]

Sutil was not sliding anyway, watch that image he was driving straight ahead with all 3 wheels.

He lost the rear end of the car in a slide and went over the kerbs. Hamilton saw this and braked to avoid him. There was nothing else he could have done.

[The Black Knight]

How about perhaps not braking quite so much? That was an option..... he had space to do it......

Yeah maybe he could have braked a little less alright but it's easy to say that in retrospect after you've just seen a car lose one of its wheels you tend to do what you can to avoid making contact with it.

[ioan]

He lost the rear end of the car in a slide and went over the kerbs. Hamilton saw this and braked to avoid him. There was nothing else he could have done.

He could have drove around Sutil on the available 2 car widths of street, but hey everyone makes judgement mistakes every now and then even Hamilton (OK he made 3 in a race but that's another story for the ban thread).

[F1boat]

Vettel did an awesome race. He is becoming better and better with each race, absolutely amazing to watch. Well done to Alonso too, he was very solid, as well as Jenson. This was a nice Monaco GP.

[Rollo]

Sutil was not sliding anyway, watch that image he was driving straight ahead with all 3 wheels.

I reject your fantasy and substitute reality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jft-YUXiL18

Sutil IS sliding across the racing line. If Hamilton had run into the back of him you would have still accused him of poor driving.
If this was an an accident on the road, then all of the blame is on the car following for failing to take evasive action. Hamilton did take evasive action by slowing down.

It was Algersuari's Toro Rosso which clipped the rumble strip on the inside and went airborn which ran into the back of Hamilton. To blame Hamilton for that is ludicrous.

[steveaki13]

Its a tough one.

This isn't a road its a race track and therefore you need to be right under the wing of the car ahead, but in the situation Hamilton was, who knows how they would react. I know he is one of the best drivers in the world, but seeing that car moving in your vision and potentially moving into his path, the natural reaction without thinking about it is probably to slow down.

On the motorway, I have often reacted to brake lights all coming on ahead by putting my foot on the brake, then taking stock of the situation have realised I could have just eased off as the cars ahead are far enough ahead to avoid braking.

Basically the reactions happen sometimes before the brain can study the situation, I think thats what happened here, similarly all the drivers behind were so close they couldn't react either and with 5 or 6 cars within 2 seconds its always going to be hard to avoid damage.

[airshifter]

I reject your fantasy and substitute reality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jft-YUXiL18

Sutil IS sliding across the racing line. If Hamilton had run into the back of him you would have still accused him of poor driving.
If this was an an accident on the road, then all of the blame is on the car following for failing to take evasive action. Hamilton did take evasive action by slowing down.

It was Algersuari's Toro Rosso which clipped the rumble strip on the inside and went airborn which ran into the back of Hamilton. To blame Hamilton for that is ludicrous.


The haters won't allow your reality to be used as evidence. :laugh:

At the time Lewis got off the gas/on the brakes/whatever Sutil had a trajectory that would have taken him almost straight across the track. What is really insane is that people act as if a former world champ fighting for positions would rather cause an accident than continue racing.


Lewis on Schumacher = brilliant move. Caught a multi WDC off guard and made it stick

Lewis running into Massa = bonehead rookie level mistake, sticking his nose in way too late and not backing off

Lewis on Massa at the tunnel = WISH I FREAKING KNEW SINCE THEY NEVER SHOWED HOW LEWIS GOT INSIDE/MASSA GOT OUTSIDE! If anyone has any shots/vids of this I'd like to see it. I would think somehow Felipe got off line but you never know for sure....

The accident = at worst racing incident IMO. Nobody should expect any driver to be a physic and predict where a sliding car on three wheels is heading

[CaptainRaiden]

Rubbish, a F1 car on 3 wheels is still rather easy to control at slow speeds like Sutil was driving at. We saw it several times that drivers can easily drive almost full lap around on 3 wheels to get a new tire or wheel without making mistakes.

The excuses for Hamilton's poor judgement are hilarious!

Wow, just wow. So, now you know how an F1 car is driven as well, huh? :eek:

Surely Hamilton should hire you as his driving coach, he'd benefit hugely with your amazing F1 driving expertise and sheer genius. Being able to predict whether the Mclaren was going to hit the Force India or not, and that too from the front angle, AND sitting at home watching it on TV!! I, sir, am a fan.

Oh, and while you're at it, please also tell Lewis to stop brake testing and ruining the races of his fierce championship rivals such as Algersuari, Petrov and Maldonado. What is he thinking?

http://themagicnegro.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/facepalm.jpg

[ioan]

I reject your fantasy and substitute reality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jft-YUXiL18

Sutil IS sliding across the racing line. If Hamilton had run into the back of him you would have still accused him of poor driving.
If this was an an accident on the road, then all of the blame is on the car following for failing to take evasive action. Hamilton did take evasive action by slowing down.

It was Algersuari's Toro Rosso which clipped the rumble strip on the inside and went airborn which ran into the back of Hamilton. To blame Hamilton for that is ludicrous.

So care to point out if Sutil did slide over teh track and made Hamy break or did he drive where he meant to,just check what was happening at 0:20 and let me know where was Sutil sliding when Lewis slowed down.

[ioan]

Wow, just wow. So, now you know how an F1 car is driven as well, huh? :eek:

It's all about physics and common sense. Common sense would help you too, but hey you probably need it it first.

[CaptainRaiden]

It's all about physics and common sense. Common sense would help you too, but hey you probably need it it first.

Ah yes, physics. I'm sure that the same physics that apply to your Lada would apply to an F1 car traveling at 250 kmph at the Piscine corner as well. Also, bull$hitting about whether the Mclaren would have hit the Force India, while all you have is the front camera angle, is a fool's errand. So, you know accurately what is an F1 car's length and how close they were relative to each other on that piece of track, all just by looking at the front camera angle?!? This is really taking hater talk to a whole new level.

Also, Hamilton was the first guy behind Sutil, and so braked to avoid contact with a damaged vehicle. Algersuari didn't see it, simple. All of that happened in what, 0.5 seconds? And the armchair experts are piling it on for 2 days now like Hamilton froze time, thought about it for days and then took the decision. Simply amazing. :rolleyes:

[Arjuna]

Agree clever strategy by SV, no need to take the second pit stop that he would have lost times and come out of it behind Alonso or even Button, better stick with current tyres and drove in as much defence as possible with some conjectures that overtaking at Monte Carlo can be done by a very little, besides from result in previous races Ferrari are suffering last laps syndrom.

[The Black Knight]

Wow, just wow. So, now you know how an F1 car is driven as well, huh? :eek:

Surely Hamilton should hire you as his driving coach, he'd benefit hugely with your amazing F1 driving expertise and sheer genius. Being able to predict whether the Mclaren was going to hit the Force India or not, and that too from the front angle, AND sitting at home watching it on TV!! I, sir, am a fan.

Oh, and while you're at it, please also tell Lewis to stop brake testing and ruining the races of his fierce championship rivals such as Algersuari, Petrov and Maldonado. What is he thinking?

http://themagicnegro.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/facepalm.jpg

I hear your pain. I simply stopped replying as clearly ioan is out to be a WUM rather than actually talk any sense.

[Big Ben]

I hear your pain. I simply stopped replying as clearly ioan is out to be a WUM rather than actually talk any sense.

I like you. You learn fast :laugh:

[The Black Knight]

I like you. You learn fast :laugh:

Haha!

If at first one does not succeed try and try again.

Normally I like to believe this is true, however, in the case of iona, I fear such an attempt would be futile.

[555-04Q2]

Wow, just wow. So, now you know how an F1 car is driven as well, huh? :eek:

Well he's right. Remember The Shoe running into the back of Coulthard at a wet Spa race? The Shoe returned to the pits so quickly on 3 wheels that even the commentators were shocked. Sometimes F1 cars can be driven fairly well and quickly with only 3 wheels attached.

[CaptainRaiden]

Well he's right. Remember The Shoe running into the back of Coulthard at a wet Spa race? The Shoe returned to the pits so quickly on 3 wheels that even the commentators were shocked. Sometimes F1 cars can be driven fairly well and quickly with only 3 wheels attached.

That was Spa, this is Monaco. That was the front right tyre, this was the right rear tyre. Agreed that the front tyres are used for steering, but with only one of the rear tyres accelerating in a single seater F1 car, who knows if Sutil would have been able to control it properly. At that point Lewis took the most evasive maneuver possible.

Besides we don't know how far was Lewis from Sutil, because we've only seen the footage from the front camera angle. Have you seen how short a cricket pitch looks from the front angle while watching it on TV? And in fact how long it is in reality? It was a split second decision, and here armchair experts, who actually have never driven an F1 car mind you, are sure that he could have made it through. Me, I would give the benefit of the doubt to the driver, who actually has years of racing experience. Also, the blame here lies on Algersuari as well, who saw Sutil's incident and didn't slow down in time.

But yeah, I guess Ioan is right. Because going by his logic, instead of braking to avoid Sutil's damaged vehicle, Lewis should have instead accelerated and managed to miss it by inches, knowing within those 0.5 seconds that only a single tyre is gone and he can surely steer it safely. That makes SO much more sense, especially at Monaco. :rolleyes:

[Rollo]

So care to point out if Sutil did slide over teh track and made Hamy break or did he drive where he meant to,just check what was happening at 0:20 and let me know where was Sutil sliding when Lewis slowed down.

Just what do you mean by "what was happening at 0:20"? At the beginning of the 20th sec or the end of it?

I now refer to this:
Formula 1 (http://www.formula1.com/races/in_detail/monaco_855/)

This may come as a shock but at Tabac, the cars are doing more than 200km/h. Just to put that in perspective, that works out to be 55.6 metres per ssecond. So at the beginning of the 21st second the cars have the potential to be 55 metres away from where they were at the beginning of the 20th second.

The track is not 55 meters wide.
Potentially, if Sutil's car had it grazed the barrier could have been strewn in bits across the track. (Not that that would happen with cars following either now would it?)


It's all about physics and common sense. Common sense would help you too, but hey you probably need it it first.

Yes, physics and common sense; sadly, you've ignored both.

[555-04Q2]

That was Spa, this is Monaco. That was the front right tyre, this was the right rear tyre. Agreed that the front tyres are used for steering, but with only one of the rear tyres accelerating in a single seater F1 car, who knows if Sutil would have been able to control it properly. At that point Lewis took the most evasive maneuver possible.

Besides we don't know how far was Lewis from Sutil, because we've only seen the footage from the front camera angle. Have you seen how short a cricket pitch looks from the front angle while watching it on TV? And in fact how long it is in reality? It was a split second decision, and here armchair experts, who actually have never driven an F1 car mind you, are sure that he could have made it through. Me, I would give the benefit of the doubt to the driver, who actually has years of racing experience. Also, the blame here lies on Algersuari as well, who saw Sutil's incident and didn't slow down in time.

But yeah, I guess Ioan is right. Because going by his logic, instead of braking to avoid Sutil's damaged vehicle, Lewis should have instead accelerated and managed to miss it by inches, knowing within those 0.5 seconds that only a single tyre is gone and he can surely steer it safely. That makes SO much more sense, especially at Monaco. :rolleyes:

I merely commented that an F1 car can sometimes be driven with 3 wheels only and you don't need to be an F1 driver to know that, you just gotta sit your butt on the couch and watch them do it on the telly, as we have seen many times before. No need to actually do it yourself to be classified as able to comment on it, or be right about it.

[SGWilko]

Joe Saward writes in his blog; http://joesaward.wordpress.com/

[quote="Joe Saward"]It was a long day and relatively uninteresting although we did have time to discuss the weekend in Monaco and the conclusion reached was that Lewis Hamilton was incredibly unlucky, and Sebastian Vettel had the kind of good fortune that a man gets when he is on his way to a World Championship. Everything fell in his favour. He was given pole position and his primary rival (Hamilton) was stuck down in ninth. In the race when it looked like Sebastian would be beaten, a red flag came out and he was able to get new tyres. That robbed us of a great final few laps, because everyone was back on the same rubber and so the status quo remained.

Hamilton did what he could and pulled off some great moves to claw his way forward at a track where overtaking is virtually impossible, even with all the new systems. This begs a question: while Monaco is an integral part of the Formula 1 scene, and a key element in its brand value, is there really value in a race track where racing is not possible? It was not helped by the fact that the FIA stewards chose to penalise those who attempted to make up ground with risky overtakes. Yes, perhaps they made contact with other cars, but there is no other way to pass at Monaco, unless the other driver cedes. Michael Schumacher showed his intelligence when Lewis went past him, giving Hamilton just enough room once it was clear that they could not go through the corner together. Sadly, Pastor Maldonado did not display the same level of savvy when Hamilton did the same to him. He turned into Hamilton and ended up out of the race &#8211]

[CaptainRaiden]

I merely commented that an F1 car can sometimes be driven with 3 wheels only and you don't need to be an F1 driver to know that, you just gotta sit your butt on the couch and watch them do it on the telly, as we have seen many times before. No need to actually do it yourself to be classified as able to comment on it, or be right about it.

It is only obvious that an F1 car can be driven on 3 wheels, even a five year old watching for the last year would know that, but have you thought about it in context of Monaco, especially at the Piscine/Tabac area where the cars behind you are traveling at 250 kmph? What Ioan was suggesting, and I quote him directly here, "it's very easy to control an F1 car on 3 wheels." Now, when one makes statements like those, you either have F1 driving experience or it's just plain and simple bull$hit. Yeah, it's been done before, but mostly on wider tracks with a lot of run-off area, where they have a lot of room to maneuver and the driver behind can go off track to avoid the vehicle, not an option in Monaco, where the only option is to brake hard.

Also, I think it's pretty darn obvious that you can't have the same kind of precision or control driving on 3 wheels compared to 4. And really how much time did Lewis have to make a decision on whether to brake and avoid or zoom past a car only a few meters ahead, which has a wheel missing? The only logical thing at that point was to not to run into the back of the Force India, and that's exactly what he did.

[555-04Q2]

It is only obvious that an F1 car can be driven on 3 wheels, even a five year old watching for the last year would know that, but have you thought about it in context of Monaco, especially at the Piscine/Tabac area where the cars behind you are traveling at 250 kmph? What Ioan was suggesting, and I quote him directly here, "it's very easy to control an F1 car on 3 wheels." Now, when one makes statements like those, you either have F1 driving experience or it's just plain and simple bull$hit. Yeah, it's been done before, but mostly on wider tracks with a lot of run-off area, where they have a lot of room to maneuver and the driver behind can go off track to avoid the vehicle, not an option in Monaco, where the only option is to brake hard.

Also, I think it's pretty darn obvious that you can't have the same kind of precision or control driving on 3 wheels compared to 4. And really how much time did Lewis have to make a decision on whether to brake and avoid or zoom past a car only a few meters ahead, which has a wheel missing? The only logical thing at that point was to not to run into the back of the Force India, and that's exactly what he did.

Obviously a car with 4 wheels steers better than one with 3. We can agree on that.

But these are the superhero F1 drivers that you are talking up, not mere mortals such as ourselves. They should have taken stock of the situation and acted accordingly. I watched my taping of the race last night and the Force India is clearly in control (with a few small twitches) and moves right off the racing line and cuts the chicane at the swimming pool. The reason there was a crash was the cars behind were too busy fighting with each other to bother to take notice of a Force India which from behind can clearly be seen to have one tyre missing and moving at a slow(er) pace. This was a classic example of why you should not tailgate another car ;) :p :

[CaptainRaiden]

What a stupid comment! This is ioan afterall lol. :D

Oops, my bad! :laugh:

[Daniel]

Is it just me or is it never Hamilton's fault according to some people on this thread. Maldonado, Massa and Algesuari are all in the wrong, not Hamilton, not ever :dozey:

[CaptainRaiden]

Is it just me or is it never Hamilton's fault according to some people on this thread. Maldonado, Massa and Algesuari are all in the wrong, not Hamilton, not ever :dozey:

Daniel, you have opened my eyes. Yes, Hamilton did do something wrong. He shouldn't have apologized to Massa or Maldonado for calling them fricken stupid.

[Daniel]

but people on here don't seem to think that he did anything wrong, Hamilton was obviously joking with the black remark, we know that, but you could see that he blamed all the contact on other drivers......

[Mark]

Hamilton was obviously joking with the black remark,.

He was, but I don't think anybody found it funny.

[F1boat]

Is it just me or is it never Hamilton's fault according to some people on this thread.

It's obvious that this is the case. They believe that he is some sort of a freakin deity.

[Daniel]

He was, but I don't think anybody found it funny.

Definitely.

[555-04Q2]

He was, but I don't think anybody found it funny.

I did, but then again, my wife says I have a sick sense of humour.

[SGWilko]

I did, but then again, my wife says I have a sick sense of humour.

My wife just thinks I'm sick...... ;)

Except of course on payday, when for some reason I'm the best thing since........... :p

[SGWilko]

He was, but I don't think anybody found it funny.

Well, I think the clue is clear when he mentions Sacha Baron Cohen's alter ego, and that, being white, the irony of a Jew pretending to be black and saying 'is it cos I is black'? is not lost on those with an ironically inclined SOH.

[Mark]

Yes, it *was* funny when Ali G did it. We got it, but Hamilton spouting it is about as funny as when Richard Madley did it!

[SGWilko]

Yes, it *was* funny when Ali G did it. We got it, but Hamilton spouting it is about as funny as when Richard Madley did it!

Has anyone considered for second putting themselves in Lewis's shoes when, for example, we had those morons in Spain, or the uneducated oiks making monkey noises.

Now, imagine you've just completed an 80 lap race around Monaco, you make several overtakes, two of which another competitor has made in the same manner, and one you have successfully pulled off earlier, and this time, on two occasions, the stewards serve a penalty because the guy you tried to overtake turned in.....

You'd be a bit riled too I suspect for a while after the race.........

The Shoe came from as far back as Hamilton when he successfully got by Rosberg, and the Shoe made the gap for Lewis. So, what singles Lewis out from the rest of the pack?

Ummmmmmm, uuuurrrrrrr, aaahhhhhhhhhhh

[AndyL]

Is it just me or is it never Hamilton's fault according to some people on this thread. Maldonado, Massa and Algesuari are all in the wrong, not Hamilton, not ever :dozey:

Probably about the same number of people as those who insist that it's always Hamilton's fault.

I haven't read every single post in the 15-page flame war threads, but I don't recall anyone suggesting that Hamilton was blameless in the Massa incident.

[Daniel]

Probably about the same number of people as those who insist that it's always Hamilton's fault.


There are idiots on both sides sadly. Listen, I think Lewis is a great racer who at times has a very poor attitude. The rest of the time he's a great driver to watch.

[airshifter]

Probably about the same number of people as those who insist that it's always Hamilton's fault.

I haven't read every single post in the 15-page flame war threads, but I don't recall anyone suggesting that Hamilton was blameless in the Massa incident.

The people who think it's always Hamiltons fault will ignore the Massa incident. Of course those same people cried and moaned when Lewis went down the pit lane next to Vettel last year. When Alonso drove side by side down the pit lane it was OK. :)