2011 Rallye de France , looking for info...

[MR666]

P Solberg +20.4sec down on OGIER

Are we going to see Latvala having to give up 3rd place (could see him passing Solberg) so that Hirvonen can place 4th?

[FAlonso]

Thanks.


"How the action unfolded:
The final day of Rallye de France Alsace has got off to a dramatic start with Armindo Araujo retiring his MINI John Cooper Works WRC less than half a kilometre into the fog-hit opening test.
The Portuguese ace, Production Car world champion in 2009 and 2010, began day three in seventh position but hit trouble when he clipped a wall on a right-hand corner. He was able to continue but ground to a halt at the 400-metre mark."

World Rally Championship - News - SS18: Araujo crashes, Sordo closes up (http://www.wrc.com/news/ss18-araujo-crashes-sordo-closes-up/?fid=15511)

[KKS]

What happen with Petter at SS19?

[AP-Racing]

What happen with Petter at SS19?

Spin in next km's after start

[GigiGalliNo1]

+5min penalty for Lemes? Just for speeding at road section? It's cruel punishment.

If you get two speeding fines it equals 5min penalty!

[Langdale Forest]

Are both runs through Haganau power stages?

[Mitch555]

Are both runs through Haganau power stages?

Only the last

[Bigdiggerman]

Anyone got a link for the power stage live?

[Fly]

Any footage of Meeke's or Oliveira's crash?

Some rumours going that Magalhaes has three broken ribs and was cut out of the car.

Meeke (after Ogier's short off)

Rallye de France Alsace jour 2 crash de Meeke - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38PkUwPDVGg&feature=share)

[Mintexmemory]

Is the power stage on stream any where? if so can someone post the site? (Rally Radio sending me into anger management playing the kings of blandness - Coldplay! Apologies to Coldplay fans but they send me to sleep)

[KKS]

If you get two speeding fines it equals 5min penalty!

French policemen's is too aggressive for small Fiesta R2 :D or it's FFSA with radar on roads?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Sordo in stage now :D

[Mintexmemory]

Only the last Nope both Hagenau s are through the same stage

[GigiGalliNo1]

No problems for Ogier, Right choice are the hard compounds, He has to be careful... Dani is pushing hard, he had a good drive this morning and it's good fun! - from Ogier

[GigiGalliNo1]

Dani Sordo - same time as Ogier - not bad but he wants to be faster to win! Trying to pushing hard.

[Mitch555]

Yesterday and today I have been very VERY impressed by the pace of Kuipers, Block and Campana.

Kuipers, although raised on tarmac, doesn't have that much experience at the WRC level. Also shows the Fiesta is a good car when set up correctly.
Campana. Still very new to the game, and driving the less developed of the cars. Hopefully Mini can give him a hand to do some more driving, he certainly is a developing talent on tarmac.
Block. Just wow. Nobody would think he'd be doing that well :) Some great stage times this morning on top of his decent performance yesterday. Very encouraging for him.

Kuipers consistently top 10, with a 2nd fastest
Campana: consistent top 10, best of 5th, 7th & 2 8ths
Block: has set a 5th and 6th fastest this morning, as well as top 10 times yesterday.

This along with Sordo has meant its been a good rally. Only disappointment has been Mikko really :/

[Mitch555]

Nope both Hagenau s are through the same stage

Wasn't he asking whether both count as the powerstage? I dunno, some punctuation would help as technically you are right ;) Though I think he was asking what I answered haha

[rage82]

Only the last stage is power stage and can be watched here: mypremium.tv at 13:00 CET

[Mintexmemory]

Wasn't he asking whether both count as the powerstage? I dunno, some punctuation would help as technically you are right ;) Though I think he was asking what I answered haha
It helps that 2 of my housemates are europeans that use different constructs where english words don't come out as the question they mean to ask ;-)
Bit of non - question though as the itinerary on WRC.Com shows Hagenau 1 & 2 are same mileage and everyone knows there is only one power stage! (as opposed to super specials like last night). Arrgh Toto - Africa on the radio now :-(

[Langdale Forest]

SS21 starting soon.

Can Sordo catch Ogier?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Yes but the power stages are run twice. Once as normal (the first run is a TV test so they also can get their positions correct) and then the final is the Power Stage LIVE. =) It's a re-run like any other stage! Australia was the same. I had no access to points to photograph in first run of stage so then on final run (Power Stage Live) I went to the end - so did some spectators - it wasn't really for Spectators more TV but european rounds its different!

[GigiGalliNo1]

Sordo is 1.0sec slower then Ogier SS21

[Langdale Forest]

Looks like Sordi is setteling for 2nd place and is Spain fully tarmac this year?

[Mintexmemory]

Looks like Sordi is setteling for 2nd place and is Spain fully tarmac this year?
Part gravel day 1

[MJW]

Looks like Sordi is setteling for 2nd place and is Spain fully tarmac this year?
Spain is mixed this year, a bit more gravel than last year, but not fully 50/50 spilt, still tarmac bias.

[Langdale Forest]

Then it will be harder for Sordo to win if it is like that.

[MJW]

Then it will be harder for Sordo to win if it is like that.
Dont underestimate his capability on gravel either. Sordo went into the Loeb number 2 mindest - now he must be feeling good after Germany and France, mental attitude and self beleif counts a lot

[Mitch555]

Looks like Sordi is setteling for 2nd place and is Spain fully tarmac this year? No, Day 1 is mostly gravel, and they must be on the gravel control tyre, whilst Day 2 and 3 are on tarmac.

[Langdale Forest]

But Sordo will have an advantage of being lower down the starting order on day 1, which might help.

[Mintexmemory]

But Sordo will have an advantage of being lower down the starting order on day 1, which might help. Indeed, but not so far down that it becomes a handicap on the second run so he'll be in a very good position for Saturday on roads he knows as well as Loeb knows Alsace

[N.O.T]

Sordo cannot win is spain by driving....he was on par with Loeb the previous years and Mini is inferior to Citroen...he can do some damage to hirvonen though.

[rubla]

Hänninen has 15 km to go and 17s to take back from Maurin in order to rise from 6th to 5th in SWRC standings. Based on their performances so far, easy job for Juho.

[Mitch555]

Sordo cannot win is spain by driving....he was on par with Loeb the previous years and Mini is inferior to Citroen...he can do some damage to hirvonen though.

It's going to depend on the condition of the roads and how far the Mini has come on gravel. There is no doubt Sordo can set up a car for the tarmac, and we've seen major improvement from Germany to now, but the gain might not be so much on gravel, however it is only one day of gravel. The gravel last year had a fine top of of loose gravel on a hard base, which Loeb, Hirvonen and Ogier will be sweeping. They are also longer stages at 25.7, 35.9 and 18.5 kilometres. The first two will be harder on the leading cars due to the amount of sweeping. The small amounts lost are really going to add up. Unless Sordo gets caught in the dust or its wet, I think we could see him take a decent advantage in the first loop, and then get it trimmed back on day 2. First on the road day 2 then has an advantage as the bring the gravel onto the tarmac. It's possible.

... however... we need to use the 'Rule of Loeb' (like the 'rule of thumb') in this calculation!

[User]

Final real stage (10km SS) coming up .. This will most likely decide the rally. Go Sordo!

[MikeD]

Sordo -1.3 on Ogier on first split (SS 22) ... Go Sordo!!!!

[Langdale Forest]

Sordo is up on the splits!

[N.O.T]

Sordo flies through the 1st split !!!

GOOOOOOOOO

[Mintexmemory]

Sordo up at first split - keep it going Dani

[MikeD]

ok...game over - only -1.1 on second split

[N.O.T]

Ogier 6 seconds faster than his morning pass.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Sordo 1.3 FASTER in first split on SS22

[N.O.T]

Sordo slower at the end...game over.

[Langdale Forest]

It's impossible for Sordo to win by catching Ogier up on the power stage, and it's almost the end of Latvala's 2011 title hopes.

[AP-Racing]

ehhh

[Mintexmemory]

Ah well 2nd is no disgrace, Ogier just had enough, been a very good rally though - Can't wait for Spain, especially if Kris can make to the end

[GigiGalliNo1]

Damn, Sordo slower...

[N.O.T]

The citroen is a superior car..

Ogier was able to command the pace throughout the event and although the difference is small Ogier was always gaining when he had to....he just didn't have to go 100% since Loeb was out.

[N.O.T]

It's impossible for Sordo to win by catching Ogier up on the power stage, and it's almost the end of Latvala's 2011 title hopes.

Latvala NEVER had any title hopes....

[focus206]

Is Latvala going to slow down during power stage?

[Juha_Koo]

Kathi Wüstenhagen suffered a broken rib and a pelvis after a fourth-gear side impact to a tree. Now in hospital. Magalhaes also having rib injuries after Oliveira crashed hard. And finally, in WRC academy Haigh-Smith going off on SS2 - broken shoulder and collarbone, codriver Aldridge getting "minor injuries".

Pretty painful rally...

[AP-Racing]

Is Latvala going to slow down during power stage?

I think after Power Stage he go early on last TC

[N.O.T]

even if he does.....Hirvonen must be faster than Sordo Ogier and Solberg....

[Mintexmemory]

;) Expect JML to incur a road penalty to give Mikko the place but win the power stage

[Langdale Forest]

Latvala NEVER had any title hopes....

He did (mathematically), starting this rally, but he would have to have won all three remaining rallies (including France), with the other 3 title contenders scoring no points, and JML to win almost all the power stages.

[AP-Racing]

Hirvo - slowson #2

He is slowest Finnish driver which i ever see.....after Raikko :)

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Hirvo - slowson #2

He is slowest Finnish driver which i ever see.....after Raikko :)

Then you haven´t seen much. But I understand that.

[focus206]

Hirvo - slowson #2

He is slowest Finnish driver which i ever see.....after Raikko :)

Then you didn't saw many Finnish drivers...

[AP-Racing]

Then you haven´t seen much. But I understand that.

I like watching Group F and some years ago starting in any rally with Silvo Viitanen in Russia and know about told :) )))

[Langdale Forest]

Hirvo - slowson #2

He is slowest Finnish driver which i ever see.....after Raikko :)

Mikko Hirvonen gets spoilt with all the Ford team orders, he was given the win in Australia and now they are talking about stopping Latvala on the power stage to let Mikko up into 4th. If he does end up winning the championship, he will be a paper champion.

[AP-Racing]

Then you didn't saw many Finnish drivers...

Believe me....saw :) )))

[sete]

yes but still champion
any link for live stream a power stage?

[focus206]

Believe me....saw :) )))

Do you rate Tuohino faster than Hirvonen? Also Paasonen is faster?

[AP-Racing]

Do you rate Tuohino faster than Hirvonen? Also Paasonen is faster?

Tuohino same on Mikko, but Jani i think faster.....and sure what Toni much faster then Mikko :) )))

[Josti]

That 'aggressive asphalt trim' didn't really help Hirvonen. His pace is slower than Germany. Gaining 10 or 12 points on Loeb won't likely be enough. When it goes down to the wire, Loeb excels, while Hirvonen does not as we've seen in 2009.

[Brother John]

yes but still champion
any link for live stream a power stage?

This one
http://www.livesporton.tv/sports/Mot...px?fid=1138991 (http://www.livesporton.tv/sports/Motor-Sports/fixture-detail/default.aspx?fid=1138991)

And also live on, Live on EXQI

[MikeD]

Can't wait for Spain, especially if Kris can make to the end

Well his 9th place at Rally GB in 2005 (Subaru Impreza WRC) is still his best result. The following 5 WRC rallies in a WRC car has been DNF's. The pressure for sure is there to finish and score points in the final two events, otherwise MINI will look at a replacement for him in 2011. I think Prodrive expected him to be ahead of Sordo or at least match him on speed. This hasn't happend and there is simply too many driving errors (his own words).

[focus206]

Tuohino same on Mikko, but Jani i think faster.....and sure what Toni much faster then Mikko :) )))

Ok... I don't agree but that's your opinion.

[AP-Racing]

Ok... I don't agree but that's your opinion.

yes
I don't understand why Mikko no 1 in Ford....Yes, Jari make much mistakes, but he faster....And i hope to see Ott in next year in factory Ford

[Mintexmemory]

Tuohino same on Mikko, but Jani i think faster.....and sure what Toni much faster then Mikko :) )))
No Toni has lost it if what I saw at Ypres this year is anything to go by.
As for Mikko and the championship, that will be over in Spain!

[MikeD]

Why didn't Ford impose team-ordes on this stage instead of waiting for the Power-stage. Now they have removed Latvalas chance of taking Power-stage-points from Ogier. They are really not good at strategy at Ford!

[AP-Racing]

Mikko lost all chances in 2009 and if he won Championship in this year, he will be worstest champion in WRC history

[Langdale Forest]

Mikko lost all chances in 2009 and if he won Championship in this year, he will be worstest champion in WRC history

He will be the greatest 'paper' champion ever, because he relies on Malcolm Wilson's team orders and tactics.

[N.O.T]

he did (mathematically), starting this rally, but he would have to have won all three remaining rallies (including france), with the other 3 title contenders scoring no points, and jml to win almost all the power stages.

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool...

[Mintexmemory]

Well his 9th place at Rally GB in 2005 (Subaru Impreza WRC) is still his best result. The following 5 WRC rallies in a WRC car has been DNF's. The pressure for sure is there to finish and score points in the final two events, otherwise MINI will look at a replacement for him in 2011. I think Prodrive expected him to be ahead of Sordo or at least match him on speed. This hasn't happend and there is simply too many driving errors (his own words).

It's a British team, they clearly want a British driver for PR purposes and there's no one better than Kris at the moment. I don't think Prodrive expected Kris to be quicker on Tarmac than Dani and until he retired in Sardinia Kris was quicker than Dani on gravel. Hold the pessimism for a while eh?

[Mintexmemory]

Why didn't Ford impose team-ordes on this stage instead of waiting for the Power-stage. Now they have removed Latvalas chance of taking Power-stage-points from Ogier. They are really not good at strategy at Ford!
Road or booking in Penalties! Ford had to wait until it was certain that JML couldn't finish ahead of Petter for manufacturer points.

[AP-Racing]

and what about Chris? I can't read twitter now

[Hartusvuori]

It've been quite a few enjoyable and tight tarmac rallies during the past five weeks or so. I would've hoped for Sordo to push even further but this is still a very good indication for coming seasons.

[cali]

Tuohino same on Mikko, but Jani i think faster.....and sure what Toni much faster then Mikko :) )))
Please do us favor and stop this crap! It's clear that you don't know too much about it.
Have a nice day now!

[MikeD]

It's a British team, they clearly want a British driver for PR purposes...

Well, it's BMW money paying and that's not "British" but I agree that despite only DNF'ing he is the best GB has to offer right now. (Don't want to go down the road that Wilslow is scoring more points ... that's just to lame an argument ;) )


...in Sardinia Kris was quicker than Dani on gravel. Hold the pessimism for a while eh?

Doesn't matter when he cannot finish the rally - Sordo finished 6th and that's what counts. And I am not a pessimist, but a realist.

[dimviii]

As Sordo is not nomimated to take points,will Petter take the points of second?

[jonkka]

As Sordo is not nomimated to take points,will Petter take the points of second?

Yes - manufacturer's points that is.

[Viking]

As Sordo is not nomimated to take points,will Petter take the points of second?

As Manufaturers points go, yes

[dimviii]

Thanks Viking and Jonkka

[dimviii]

HIRVONEN M. / LEHTINEN J. (st. č. 3) "Now full attack on Powerstage to score some points. We'll see what happens."

[sete]

seems juho gets 10 sec penalisation? did anybody knows more?

[AP-Racing]

HIRVONEN M. / LEHTINEN J. (st. č. 3) "Now full attack on Powerstage to score some points. We'll see what happens."

lol

[Langdale Forest]

HIRVONEN M. / LEHTINEN J. (st. č. 3) "Now full attack on Powerstage to score some points. We'll see what happens."

Seems unlikey that he will win the extra 3 points, and he will probably make a mistake by doing so as he is not capable of going quicker than Sordo, P Solberg, Ogier and even Latvala.

[Viking]

Strange thing is that Mikko always is fast on the powerstages...

[hari]

seems juho gets 10 sec penalisation? did anybody knows more?

The 10sec penalty for a jump start in SS20 has been removed meanwhile.

[Langdale Forest]

It was Latvala who won the stage that is to be the powerstage this morning, so if JML is allowed to go flat out and beat Srodo Ogier and Sordo, Ogier might not get any power stage points at all, sounds like a bvetter plan the Hirvonen going flat out for the extra 3 points.

[dimviii]

Seems unlikey that he will win the extra 3 points, and he will probably make a mistake by doing so as he is not capable of going quicker than Sordo, P Solberg, Ogier and even Latvala.

Thats right,he haven t try at this rally to measure his speed with top crews,so imho there is a risk going flat out,but we don t know if Seb will risk a win in a crucial championship point which makes him again a championship contenter.Also Sordo will he risk while till now his target achieved?

[dimviii]

Strange thing is that Mikko always is fast on the powerstages...

gravel or tarmac power stages?

[AP-Racing]

so what about Atko?

[N.O.T]

so if JML is allowed to go flat out and beat Srodo Ogier and Sordo, Ogier might not get any power stage points at all

I think if ogier beats ogier, ogier and ogier then ogier might not get any points and all 3 go to ogier....Ogier would be furious then.

[AP-Racing]

I think if ogier beats ogier, ogier and ogier then ogier might not get any points and all 3 go to ogier....Ogier would be furious then.

hunger causes crisis finally killed your brain?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Ford tactics! JML 2 min penalty!!!

[Langdale Forest]

The power stage starts in 5 miniets.

[Langdale Forest]

Ford tactics! JML 2 min penalty!!!

Help! Ford is trying to make Hirvonen a paper champion!

[tfp]

This one
http://www.livesporton.tv/sports/Mot...px?fid=1138991 (http://www.livesporton.tv/sports/Motor-Sports/fixture-detail/default.aspx?fid=1138991)

And also live on, Live on EXQI

Doesnt work for me :(
Any more links to the powerstage?

[sete]

Watch Live FIA World Rally Championship Online Video Racing - Motorsports (http://www.sportlemon.tv/v-2/10/122/v-312252.html)
here its working

[Mintexmemory]

Ford tactics! JML 2 min penalty!!! Oh what a surprise!!!!

[KKS]

4 J. LATVALA (FIN) TC22A 2M EARLY AT TC22A 2:00

for what? Just for loose championship at Spain not in France? Agrrrrr

[tfp]

watch live fia world rally championship online video racing - motorsports (http://www.sportlemon.tv/v-2/10/122/v-312252.html)
here its working

thankyou!

[GigiGalliNo1]

These tactics I don't mind... But let's say next rally Ogier is in better position with points thus leading him to be champion - and Loeb behind in rally position.... What would the Citroen team do? Who will complain then? I think Ford are doing this better then Citroen and not screwing over drivers!!

[N.O.T]

when was the last time a driver had to slow down TWICE to allow the No1 contender for the title to pass him ???

[N.O.T]

These tactics I don't mind... But let's say next rally Ogier is in better position with points thus leading him to be champion - and Loeb behind in rally position.... What would the Citroen team do? Who will complain then? I think Ford are doing this better then Citroen and not screwing over drivers!!

there is no hope for you child...i am really sorry.

[User]

I don't get why everyone is bitching about Hirvonen. I see him as the Jenson Button of WRC .. Doesn't drive that aggressive, but is very consistent. Just as Hirvonen, Button is second in the WDC. Sure, with the current Ford he isn't able to match the pace of the Citroen's, but put him in a Citroen, and he'll be able to win when Loeb doesn't finish.

But yes, he'll most likely never be a WRC champion.

[N.O.T]

My eyes bleed seeing that useless disgrace for our sport going through the power stage.

[Langdale Forest]

It's not Hirvonen that's the problem, it's Malcolm Wilson.
Last year JML was 2nd in the championship, Hirvonen was 6th, so why does Hirvonen have the higher number on the car door?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Oh NOT give me a break. I'm more in favor or Ford doing tactics then Citroen. My opinion sorry.

[dimviii]

My eyes bleed seeing that useless disgrace for our sport going through the power stage.

Link working in Greece please?

[User]

It's not Hirvonen that's the problem, it's Malcolm Wilson.
Last year JML was 2nd in the championship, Hirvonen was 6th, so why does Hirvonen have the higher number on the car door?

It's just a number after all. We'll have to ask Wilson himself why, but in the end, the guy with the best title chances gets the most advantages during the season. But Wilson is really desperate at the moment.

[dimviii]

WILSON M. / MARTIN S. (st. č. 5) "We had really good day today. We made some small changes, more grip and it was much better."

[N.O.T]

Link working in Greece please?

switch your tv to ET1 i am watching it there...

[dimviii]

switch your tv to ET1 i am watching it there...


thanksssss

[N.O.T]

Ostberg puncture....front right.

[AP-Racing]

Ostberg puncture....front right.

WTF?

[Luis Pacheco]

Power Stage Rallye de France 2011 en streaming (http://www.rallye-sport.fr/power-stage-rallye-de-france-2011-en-streaming/)

[N.O.T]

WTF?

the racing line of the first corner requires mounting the a city pavement with the front right wheel so he probably got the puncture there...

[N.O.T]

Hirvonen now.

[N.O.T]

Hirvonen 2.1 faster than Wilson....hmmm i think he is out of top 3.

[N.O.T]

Lets see if latvala slows for hirvonen to have better chances in the power stage.

[N.O.T]

LOL latvala 2.5 seconds faster....

Maximum attack by Hirvonen indeed !!!!!! LOL

Paper contender.... or sick dog ?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Nope doesn't look like it

[GigiGalliNo1]

NOT sorry can you define 'sick dog'?

[AP-Racing]

Ukrainian commentator told what Jari can started tomorrow on super-rally and with 5 minutes penalty he can skip forward Mikko lol

[N.O.T]

Solberg very slow...

I think those hayballs are deteriorating and make the stage slower for the late runners... lets see...

[AP-Racing]

i love this is season
we have Slowson, Slowberg and Slow'onen

[N.O.T]

Ogier no risks...lets see if he can beat Hirvonen.

[Barreis]

Power Stage Rallye de France 2011 en streaming (http://www.rallye-sport.fr/power-stage-rallye-de-france-2011-en-streaming/)

Thx.

[Bobcat]

Hirvonen: "I think I made a mistake in the Power Stage so we'll see how the others do."

[N.O.T]

What a great rally ....

Now the championship is on fire !!!!!!!

Ogier is 3rd with the same time as hirvonen...

Lets see what Citroen will do now.....

[GigiGalliNo1]

Well done Ogier!!!!!

[GigiGalliNo1]

What a great rally ....

Now the championship is on fire !!!!!!!

Ogier is 3rd with the same time as hirvonen...

Lets see what Citroen will do now.....

I Agree !!!

[Barreis]

Nice rally. It was real chance for Sordo but no win again.

[Jafry]

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2011/939/939_rallye_de_france_alsace_2011_4dbc3d582a.jpg

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2011/939/939_rallye_de_france_alsace_2011_7b36b8f5d7.jpg

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2011/939/939_rallye_de_france_alsace_2011_a89eaafa3f.jpg

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2011/939/939_rallye_de_france_alsace_2011_2a19a9f22e.jpg

More photos from last day HERE (http://www.rally-mania.cz/photogallery.php?id=939&startpos=0&fseason=&fcat=&fauthor=&ftxt=)

[tfp]

Well done Ogier! And well done mini and sordo, and JML for winning the powerstage!

[MikeD]

Well done Ogier .... bring on Spain :D

[Bobcat]

Congrats to Sordo!

[urabus-denoS2000]

3 drivers in 3 points , with 2 rallies to go ! And now Mini proves they are competitive for the victory :) WRC is now becoming really interesting I must admit , only Mikko is dissapointing the whole season . However , here is again , in the title run again . I think a epic Seb vs. Seb ego battle continues , I wouldn't like to be in Quesnel's skin now :)

[GigiGalliNo1]

I think Sordo is good with MINI on Tarmac, new car but not sure if really in a seasonal challenge to beat Citroen... Just like, I will say it NOT McRae in a Skoda on Gravel; good driver on their specialty surface in a car that others were not so good in.

Congrats to my favorite team: MINI :D

[Francis44]

Congrats to Ogier and Sordo. Championship is not as boring as it used to be, however I think Ogier is definitely away for the title fight after all we heard this weekend from team principals. Loeb should have it easy seeing is opponent is Hirvonnen.

[Viking]

So Latvala took 1point from Ogier and Hirvonen, advantage Loeb...

[Viking]

Concrats to Ogier, Sordo and to another podium to Petter. Also congrats to Tanak and Brynhildsen.

[KKS]

Ukrainian commentator told what Jari can started tomorrow on super-rally and with 5 minutes penalty he can skip forward Mikko lol

Yes, he was :D So shame have this guy commentating. But we have Live Power Stage in country and it's great!

[dimviii]

Congrats to Ogier for an excellent job this weekend.Clever aproach of the rally,without risking.
Big bravo to Sordo for the 2nd place while almost a year without competition.Mini and Sordos pace show a lot about why Ford is not capable to beat Citroen.
Speed of the car is there,but not from start of rallies.When they are fast is to late at usually 3rd leg,and others cruising.
Latvala show us speed,but definetely this is not enough when you have both Sebs as rivals.I haven t checked properly but i think that in last rallies both Jari and Mikko have exits from road at 1st day very often.They are very lucky that after all these exits they have managed to be so close to Citroen(at least Mikko)
Definetely they are veeeery lucky with all these mistakes.Exit from road for 15 meters and not touching a wood is pure luck.
Big dissapointment Mikko,there is no speed at all.Even when he says that he will go for the power stage points.Think that the best Mikko could give to wrc is already given.
Another point is that till now while slow,with so little works participants he was always 3rd or 4th gaining points.With Minis entry and next years VW entry that is not going to happen.Speed would be more necessary than just constitent.
Another dissapointment was Hanninen.This mistake wasn t for his class,while the gap was 2 minutes.
If Citroen is going to lose championship,i wouldn t like to be at Quesnels position.
Definetely 100% responsible for all the crap already from Mexico.

ps we have to remember that the asphalt expert absence from this rally.Without him is not so safe to measure speeds of rivals.

[KKS]

So Latvala took 1point from Ogier and Hirvonen, advantage Loeb...

yep, another Malcolm mistake. Or it's a gift to JML for slowing?

[dimviii]

Well as the stream isn't on one car for the whole of the stage I couldn't tell you what errors Ogier may be making. I think you have become splits strategy addicted, anyway that was yesterday. So if this is a strategy Ogier should be comfortably quicker following Sordo, he isn't because the Mini is faster than expected and because of this Von Clauswitz's maxim about strategy applies. I have been watching rallies since 1977 (before you were born, I suspect) and know enough to be able to analyse team tactics. Look at Ogier's last 2 splits on SS12 -they don't back up your analysis

Really?

[Rallyper]

To NOT and Dimviii:

Ogier and Mikko equal on powerstage:

Now we have Slowier and Slowonen! :D

[N.O.T]

do not bother with these drivers...stick to your 2 years plan for kimi becoming world champion...

Bye.

[Mauri A]

Ukrainian commentator told what Jari can started tomorrow on super-rally and with 5 minutes penalty he can skip forward Mikko lol
Why not to have N.O.T as co-commentator in Ukraina?

[Juha_Koo]

Wow, this rally has really produced some of the most idiotic and BS-filled comments I've ever seen in here. I have to keep checking the address bar to see that I'm on the right forum. You could atleast try guys...

Not that I would be cheering for Mikko, he seems to be very lost all the time. "Yeah let's take it steady and try to avoid punctures." And he's fighting for the championship win. It should be 110% attack every single metre of stage á la JML-talk!

[Mintexmemory]

Really? Yes really - the only time Ogier was truly safe was SS22 &23. ou don't think he would have risked a New Zealand do you? That would have been unprofessional. He was a worthy winner because he had to fight.

[Barreis]

Let we all hope that wrc will continue this way - whole day streams.

[dimviii]

Yes really - the only time Ogier was truly safe was SS22 &23. ou don't think he would have risked a New Zealand do you? That would have been unprofessional. He was a worthy winner because he had to fight.

Exactly because he didn t risk,he wasn t at his max speed.

[N.O.T]

Yes really - the only time Ogier was truly safe was SS22 &23. ou don't think he would have risked a New Zealand do you? That would have been unprofessional. He was a worthy winner because he had to fight.


for a guy following rallying since 1975 you haven't learned much all these years....its a pity.

Most dinosaur spectators are like that here in greece as well, so you have my sympathy...

Ogier was manhandling sordo whenever he wanted to...

[cali]

Wow, this rally has really produced some of the most idiotic and BS-filled comments I've ever seen in here. I have to keep checking the address bar to see that I'm on the right forum. You could atleast try guys...

Not that I would be cheering for Mikko, he seems to be very lost all the time. "Yeah let's take it steady and try to avoid punctures." And he's fighting for the championship win. It should be 110% attack every single metre of stage á la JML-talk!

This forum has become some sort of a disgrace, thanks to couple of members here. And now it seems that few more individuals are following this trend. Pity!
I just cannot understand the need to bash drivers, but as I understand this has become as the new "trend" here. If you do not bash then you are nobody.

[Langdale Forest]

If you do not bash then you are nobody.


Sometimes there is the need to critisise drivers and team managers, like Malcolm Wilson, whose 5 year plan states that his son should be fighting for the championship now, and also Malcolm Wilson forcing JML to get a 2 minete penalty to give Hirvonen more championship points and in doing so, trying to create the ultimate 'paper champion'.

The rule should be that the fastest driver should win.

[N.O.T]

This forum has become some sort of a disgrace, thanks to couple of members here. And now it seems that few more individuals are following this trend. Pity!
I just cannot understand the need to bash drivers, but as I understand this has become as the new "trend" here. If you do not bash then you are nobody.

i prefer to bash than kiss ass...

You should come to greece...here if you ask the rally fans all they do is suck ass of the drivers no matter how useless....so consider to move here if you do not like critisism.

[cali]

i prefer to bash than kiss ass...

You should come to greece...here if you ask the rally fans all they do is suck ass of the drivers no matter how useless....so consider to move here if you do not like critisism.
you can suggest whatever you like but you start to behave like adult person should, NOT like 13 years old puberty
Do you really think that there's only asskissing and bashing, pro or con, black and white?

Criticism is based on facts and suggestions, not just stating you subjective opinion thousand times all over again. If you have nothing new to say then just don't write. Over the last year there's nothing coming from you, like a broken CD-player going all over again and it's affecting more "pshycologically unstable" persons like yourself. Pity!

PS! I still like to keep an eye on some of the posters who actually know what they are talking about, those guys are still keepin' it up!

[N.O.T]

i always base my critisism on facts...

there is always the ignore function and you should use it instead of crying.

[JoostSchouten]

Back from a good weekend in France!

http://rally.arfman.net/ForumPlaatjeFrankrijk11.png (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ls0Wn-UPrA)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ls0Wn-UPrA

Watch my video in HD at Youtube: WRC Rallye de France 2011 (HD) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ls0Wn-UPrA&hd=1)

[cali]

i always base my critisism on facts...

there is always the ignore function and you should use it instead of crying.

Facts ... right lol
so you do not want to grow up? :D As I can see you can criticize but cannot take criticizm. No crying, just trying to help other normal members to keep it good atmosphere here. Cos most of the members here are with a great attitude

[N.O.T]

can you please point me to a comment i made which i didn't base on a fact ???

[cali]

can you please point me to a comment i made which i didn't base on a fact ???
the whole forum is full of them :D Okay, clearly this isn't going anywhere. Like talking to a brick wall ... lol

[N.O.T]

Back from a good weekend in France!



In my opinion your best job so far this year....

Amazing footage.

Well done.

[Hartusvuori]

can you please point me to a comment i made which i didn't base on a fact ???

Anti-cutting poles. Show us the facts.

[dimviii]

Back from a good weekend in France!

http://rally.arfman.net/ForumPlaatjeFrankrijk11.png (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ls0Wn-UPrA)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ls0Wn-UPrA

Watch my video in HD at Youtube: WRC Rallye de France 2011 (HD) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ls0Wn-UPrA&hd=1)

Nice video mate! Thank you!

[Luis Pacheco]

Back from a good weekend in France!

http://rally.arfman.net/ForumPlaatjeFrankrijk11.png (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ls0Wn-UPrA)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ls0Wn-UPrA

Watch my video in HD at Youtube: WRC Rallye de France 2011 (HD) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ls0Wn-UPrA&hd=1)

These are the kind of images I like to watch. Not those boring endless images of the interior of the cars. More like we are facing a video game.

[Mirek]

The pressure for sure is there to finish and score points in the final two events, otherwise MINI will look at a replacement for him in 2011.

Kris is there to develop the car and because in that field there are clearly good results I believe he will stay.

[N.O.T]

Anti-cutting poles. Show us the facts.

i said they were put there to reduce punctures and not because of road deterioration....

fact...how many punctures did we have ??? Solberg...

bye.

[AndyRAC]

Kris is there to develop the car and because in that field there are clearly good results I believe he will stay.

Kris has a 3 year contract. Add in that he was highly thought of at PSA in testing & developing cars. People forget he's actually quite inexperienced in a WRCar in WRC events.

[Hartusvuori]

i said they were put there to reduce punctures and not because of road deterioration....

fact...how many punctures did we have ??? Solberg...

bye.

That proofs nothing. If there are anti-cutting poles to prevent cutting, of course it reduces punctures in the process. So - which was first?

[DonJippo]

i said they were put there to reduce punctures and not because of road deterioration....

fact...how many punctures did we have ??? Solberg...

bye.

If I'm not mistaken drivers said on first day most of the poles were removed after recce and yet there was only few punctures ... hence they were not put up to prevent punctures.

bye.

[N.O.T]

even if i was wrong (which i am not) i based my assumption on a fact i didn't made it up....

Poles were put there to reduce punctures (according to myself)...we didn't have that many puntures...who wins ??

bye bye.

[Hartusvuori]

even if i was wrong (which i am not) i based my assumption on a fact i didn't made it up....

Poles were put there to reduce punctures (according to myself)...we didn't have that many puntures...who wins ??

bye bye.

Please point another source than yourself. Assumptions and inductive thinking is fine, but it doesn't produce facts.

[N.O.T]

the fact is that we had less punctures....so my assumption was correct...

i did not say it because i had to find something wrong with it and nag...

[Miika]

Petter has been disqualified because of an under-weight car -> three more points to the paper champion = Loeb and Hirvonen tied at 196 points now.
Hirvoselle lisäpisteet - tasoissa Loebin kanssa - MTV3.fi - Urheilu - Ralli - Uutiset (http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/2011/10/1401230/hirvoselle-lisapisteet---tasoissa-loebin-kanssa)

[Barreis]

Thisgrace.

[N.O.T]

That brings Ogier in even better position to attack in spain...nice.

[Hartusvuori]

the fact is that we had less punctures....so my assumption was correct...

i did not say it because i had to find something wrong with it and nag...

Argumenting with a Greek is a privilege, I'll apologize to eveyone that I'll continue:

With anti-cutting poles the product is to preserve road structure and thus make roads available for the sport in the first place. By-product is that with lesser cutting also tyres hold better. You are right that with anti-cutting poles we have less punctures, that is clearly logical, but you suggested that they were put there by the tyre manufactures in order to make them look them better. For that, I need fact, a source.

[focus206]

Petter has been disqualified because of an under-weight car -> three more points to the paper champion = Loeb and Hirvonen tied at 196 points now.
Hirvoselle lisäpisteet - tasoissa Loebin kanssa - MTV3.fi - Urheilu - Ralli - Uutiset (http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/2011/10/1401230/hirvoselle-lisapisteet---tasoissa-loebin-kanssa)

Shame for Petter :(

[bretddog]

That brings Ogier in even better position to attack in spain...nice.
Which makes me a bit suspicious.. I'd like to hear what part was missing and when.

[N.O.T]

Argumenting with a Greek is a privilege, I'll apologize to eveyone that I'll continue:

With anti-cutting poles the product is to preserve road structure and thus make roads available for the sport in the first place. By-product is that with lesser cutting also tyres hold better. You are right that with anti-cutting poles we have less punctures, that is clearly logical, but you suggested that they were put there by the tyre manufactures in order to make them look them better. For that, I need fact, a source.

In case of assumptions you wait for the facts to come to prove you right or wrong....the fact (less punctures) proved me right. The poles were there to reduce punctures and was either a suggestion by the tyre manufacturer or the teams. You base assupmtions on leads and wait for the facts to prove you right or wrong. When you critisize someone then you use facts...and in the case of poles the fact was that these poles were introduced only this year to such an extend while the rally was run there for 30 years....

About the road deterioration the fact that the rally was run in the region for years and years and only this year those poles were introduced, proves that the poles were not there for that reason since if they were there for that, they would employ them last year as well and also during the rally Alsace-Vosges for the last 30-40 years...

[N.O.T]

Which makes me a bit suspicious.. I'd like to hear what part was missing and when.

we still do not have official information so we have to wait for that....

Finish media are not very reliable.

[janvanvurpa]

i always base my critisism on facts...

there is always the ignore function and you should use it instead of crying.

You can claim you base your opinions on facts, but the problem is you shriveled up brain cannot interpret facts, so anything that you write is really just nonsensical vomit. It is 99.8% just name-calling...as for technical things, you know nothing. As to what drives people to compete, you know nothing. As to the JOB of driving, you know nothing. Just name calling.

Even the guys like Wilson, Block , even "village idiots" have more worth in THIS CONTEXT than anything you can do, or say or think, because they are at least brave enough to step up to the line and TRY.
You evidently --we really don't know because of the cloak of anonymity you maintain---have never measured your skills, your ability, anything against others.
Just your opinions, which are 99.8% negative broken record crap..

You are NOT even a good fan.

NOT is a nothing.


Moderators, is it possible to finish the NOT's name to read "NotObviously Thinking" or just NOThing?

[N.O.T]

LOL

good post...

[Barreis]

It's not good to insult anybody on the forum.

[Hartusvuori]

In case of assumptions you wait for the facts to come to prove you right or wrong....the fact (less punctures) proved me right. The poles were there to reduce punctures and was either a suggestion by the tyre manufacturer or the teams. You base assupmtions on leads and wait for the facts to prove you right or wrong. When you critisize someone then you use facts...and in the case of poles the fact was that these poles were introduced only this year to such an extend while the rally was run there for 30 years....

About the road deterioration the fact that the rally was run in the region for years and years and only this year those poles were introduced, proves that the poles were not there for that reason since if they were there for that, they would employ them last year as well and also during the rally Alsace-Vosges for the last 30-40 years...

I still don't approve this for a fact, but it's pointless to argue further. However, I'd point out that referring to rally's history is not completely valid either. During the decades world have changed and definitely not more in favour of rallying. Thus new procedures are introduced, in this case in an extent that it gets a notice by a wider public.

So Ogier starts 3rd on the road for Catalunya's long, 166 stage km gravel opening day. I'd say in a straight fight he'd have the upper hand now, though running first hasn't slowed Loeb in the past. We'll see. Hopefully it'll be another thrilling event.

[janvanvurpa]

In case of assumptions you wait for the facts to come to prove you right or wrong....the fact (less punctures) proved me right. The poles were there to reduce punctures and was either a suggestion by the tyre manufacturer or the teams. You base assupmtions on leads and wait for the facts to prove you right or wrong. When you critisize someone then you use facts...and in the case of poles the fact was that these poles were introduced only this year to such an extend while the rally was run there for 30 years....

About the road deterioration the fact that the rally was run in the region for years and years and only this year those poles were introduced, proves that the poles were not there for that reason since if they were there for that, they would employ them last year as well and also during the rally Alsace-Vosges for the last 30-40 years...


The poles could have been placed to prevent cars from smoooshing the rare Alsatian Blond Mole, an environmentally sensitive rodent unique the the area which everybody who has driven there is aware of.

They could have been place to ward off Bengal Tigers from wandering into the road.
It is a FACT that neither Alsatian Blond Moles were squished AND a FACT that there were no Bengal Tigers seen running into on any stage.
Therefore it is proven the poles were effective.
FACT.

Prove it was otherwise.
Prove it with FACTS, not guesses and presumptions.

[dimviii]

Argumenting with a Greek is a privilege, I'll apologize to eveyone that I'll continue:.
Greekphobia? :p :


With anti-cutting poles the product is to preserve road structure and thus make roads available for the sport in the first place. By-product is that with lesser cutting also tyres hold better. You are right that with anti-cutting poles we have less punctures, that is clearly logical, but you suggested that they were put there by the tyre manufactures in order to make them look them better. For that, I need fact, a source.

Even i don t agree with NOT most of times,in this case he has a point.
It is strange that in rally of France,the French federation decided such a rule for the favour a French tyre manufacture.Specially after so much punctures after Germany.
To produce a more bullet proof tyre you need time.You need a totaly different tyre carcass which is going to create some other problems in tyres behaviour,in cars suspension settings etc.And the time wasn t enough between Germany and France.
Maybe we are not going to know the ''true'' reason,maybe the reason is the road protection.For sure plenty of times things are not as they look.And sometimes some things they cant announced when there is one of the bigger tyre manufacture all over the world.

ps. mates try to be polite in ours dialogue,we re here for our love and not for handbagging. ;)

[N.O.T]

have never measured your skills, your ability, anything against others.


When it comes to sports during my UK years i had 3 boxing amateur fights representing Newcastle University... Lost 1 won 2 then i got injured and that was that.

For the last 5 years 2 as a senior researcher and 3 as a phd student i try to find novel proteins/compounds to beat children leukemia... unfortunatelly ony small steps are made in the dark.

i think i contribute far more to the world than a bunch of rich boys parading in their daddys money...

As for anonymity here you can check my scientific work.


Tsolkas g - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Tsolkas%20g) (5 more on the way but those reviewers are giving me a hard time...LOL)

unfortunatelly the server for my lab at the university is down...but i will get back to you once its up to see my current work.

if you want to see me live (i am very handsome so keep your women away) i will be presenting my work on the 22nd of december in the 62nd bichemistry congress in athens.

[janvanvurpa]

It's not good to insult anybody on the forum.

Who is insulting who?
98% here are just made up names, they're not real humans as far as we know.
Why is it OK for one or 2 people to continually insult real people as people because they are 1% slower than some other person this time out?

Further, the tone some knowNOThings have is an insult in it's tone and intention to the entire forum and the sport.

Why should a reasonable person continue to treat such an insulting person with any mutual respect?
It has never worked before.

[Brother John]

Petter has been disqualified because of an under-weight car -> three more points to the paper champion = Loeb and Hirvonen tied at 196 points now.
Hirvoselle lisäpisteet - tasoissa Loebin kanssa - MTV3.fi - Urheilu - Ralli - Uutiset (http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/2011/10/1401230/hirvoselle-lisapisteet---tasoissa-loebin-kanssa)

Another proof that he is deceived by the French team, the same car as Loeb and Ogier? That makes me laugh!
Without Citroen + som new factory teams, again we would have a real rally championship.

[Hartusvuori]

Greekphobia?

On the quoted remark I wasn't being sarcastic. Greeks do have a history with argumentation and rhetorics, to put it simple, they had build those foundations.

[dimviii]

On the quoted remark I wasn't being sarcastic. Greeks do have a history with argumentation and rhetorics, to put it simple, they had build those foundations.
ok mate!

[dimviii]

Another proof that he is deceived by the French team, the same car as Loeb and Ogier? That makes me laugh!
Without Citroen + som new factory teams, again we would have a real rally championship.
These things happened for years and they don t proove that is not the same car.Weighting less is an advantage.
Mistakes(or ''mistakes'' if you prefere) we have see for almost all manufacturers at wrc,even in irc.Skoda rear brakes,Fords window glasses etc.

[Brother John]

Argumenting with a Greek is a privilege, I'll apologize to eveyone that I'll continue:

With anti-cutting poles the product is to preserve road structure and thus make roads available for the sport in the first place. By-product is that with lesser cutting also tyres hold better. You are right that with anti-cutting poles we have less punctures, that is clearly logical, but you suggested that they were put there by the tyre manufactures in order to make them look them better. For that, I need fact, a source.

Especially the the French tyre manufacture!!! hahahahaha

[dimviii]

4 kg less. Pitty for a good result for Petter..

World Rally Championship - News - BREAKING NEWS: Petter excluded from rally (http://www.wrc.com/news/breaking-news-petter-excluded-from-rally/?fid=15528)

[Brother John]

These things happened for years and they don t proove that is not the same car.Weighting less is an advantage.
Mistakes(or ''mistakes'' if you prefere) we have see for almost all manufacturers at wrc,even in irc.Skoda rear brakes,Fords window glasses etc.

And Peugeot in the previous IRC rally, you still all have to wake up!

[dimviii]

And Peugeot in the previous IRC rally, you still all have to wake up!

I told you almost all manufacturers.Not the French ones you try to mention.
Did you see know who has to wake up?

[Hartusvuori]

4 kg less. Pitty for a good result for Petter..

World Rally Championship - News - BREAKING NEWS: Petter excluded from rally (http://www.wrc.com/news/breaking-news-petter-excluded-from-rally/?fid=15528)

Imagine if Petter had won, speaking of ups and downs...

[dimviii]

Imagine if Petter had won, speaking of ups and downs...
Hartusvuori to be fair,when you are very close to weight limit is more likely to have such problems.Ours evo 9 we weight it some 6-8 times in rallies,and some other 6-8 times per year in our scales(corner weighting etc).Almost always the weight is different.And not by 4 kg.We ve seen differences up to 30 kg from different scales.

[Langdale Forest]

Petter needs to change his number, 11 is unlucky for him.

Also with Solberg disqualified, Hirvonen finished 3rd in the rally, a true paper podium for a future paper champion.

[Barreis]

How many races one engine must run? Will it be some penalty for Loeb in next rally for blown engine?

[N.O.T]

Don't think so...

[dimviii]

How many races one engine must run? Will it be some penalty for Loeb in next rally for blown engine?

This engine Loeb used in France must be used also in Spain.If he continue the rally may broke the whole engine( not repairable)In this case they have to use another engine which is 5 minutes penalty if i remember correctly.

[Barreis]

That mechanic should be stragled. :D

[Francis44]

The engine will be repared as it was just an malfunction, no new engine will be needed.

[dimviii]

FAO Mintexmemory

“I’m really happy with the outcome of this race. I did exactly what I had to do by looking at Dani and the split times. I took the lead but I did not take the risk.

World Rally Championship - News - Q&A: Sebastien Ogier (http://www.wrc.com/news/qa-sebastien-ogier/?fid=15529)

[MartijnS]

My photos are also online!

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2011/rallyedefrance/Ogier%201.jpg

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2011/rallyedefrance/Block%202.jpg

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2011/rallyedefrance/Kuipers%203.jpg

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2011/rallyedefrance/SolbergH%205.jpg

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2011/rallyedefrance/Araujo%202.jpg

More at --> CLICK (http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2011/rallyedefrance/rallyedefrance.html) !

[Rallyper]

Shame for Petter! 4 kg is just the malfunction of a certain instrument....

I will never ever more nor read or answer N.O.T. in the future. His absence from this forrum should be best.

[whereschris]

Just found this on twitter...
World Rally Championship - News - BREAKING NEWS: Petter excluded from rally (http://www.wrc.com/news/breaking-news-petter-excluded-from-rally/?fid=15528)

Gosh I'm slow... sorry

[N.O.T]

Shame for Petter! 4 kg is just the malfunction of a certain instrument....

I will never ever more nor read or answer N.O.T. in the future. His absence from this forrum should be best.

yes, focus on your future champ....

[dimviii]

@Martinjs

excellent photos! thank you.

[Rallyper]

What a relief!! I cant see N.O.T. anymore! :bounce:

[Barreis]

Citroen takes blame for oil pump issue which caused Loeb's retirement - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95019)

[dimviii]

yep, another Malcolm mistake. Or it's a gift to JML for slowing?
A team manager is responsible for championships,not gifts. With this ......... lost the chance(after Petters exclusion) to have Mikko in front of Loeb.
In Greece we use to say ''the fish stinks from the head''
Team managers of both teams have done serious mistakes imho.
Quesnel favours Ogier who ''steal'' points from Loeb(with way more points) already before the half of championship!!!!!
and Malcolm while he slow Jari at 2 rallies,can t think? that powerstage points may decide the championship.The championship he chase for years without success.

[N.O.T]

on the other hand having Hirvonen opening the gravel roads in Spain would be a disaster...the guy cannot win a gravel event starting from the back so i guess the plan was good, although unintentional.

I still think that Hirvonen is there for decorative purposes...the real battle is between ogier and Loeb. If they decide to throw it in the bin then Hirvonen can collect the title from the garbage.

[dimviii]

another question is ....who is going to open the road in Spain? Loeb or Mikko now with equal points?

[Barreis]

Loeb has more wins.

[Mirek]

4 kg less. Pitty for a good result for Petter..

World Rally Championship - News - BREAKING NEWS: Petter excluded from rally (http://www.wrc.com/news/breaking-news-petter-excluded-from-rally/?fid=15528)

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be disqualified if he was in official car like stories with windows, mudflaps, rollbars, weight etc. in the past proved (including some where Petter was involved).

[dimviii]

Loeb has more wins.

Yes i know that,but is this for opening the road? Driver with more wins we know that win the championship in case of equal points.Is it valid in this case for opening the road?

[dimviii]

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be disqualified if he was in official car like stories with windows, mudflaps, rollbars, weight etc. in the past proved (including some where Petter was involved).

Please define this about Petter Mirek,i can t remember

[Barreis]

Yes i know that,but is this for opening the road? Driver with more wins we know that win the championship in case of equal points.Is it valid in this case for opening the road?

Sure 'cos he's leading the championship.

[N.O.T]

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be disqualified if he was in official car like stories with windows, mudflaps, rollbars, weight etc. in the past proved (including some where Petter was involved).

i think when it comes to weight they are pretty strict...remember burns 40gr heavier flywheel ??


In infractions that are not too specific the teams can bargain...

[Mirek]

Please define this about Petter Mirek,i can t remember

Acropolis 2004 Petter was penalized by 30 seconds for missing mudflaps and than in 2005 all Subaru cars plus Mitsubishi of Gigi Galli were underweight. Both teams were penalized only financially by couple of thousand Euro.

[dimviii]

Acropolis 2004 Petter was penalized by 30 seconds for missing mudflaps and than in 2005 all Subaru cars plus Mitsubishi of Gigi Galli were underweight. Both teams were penalized only financially by couple of thousand Euro.

aha now i remembered.

[Langdale Forest]

Toni Gardemiester was disqualified after day 2 of Wales Rally GB in 2005 for being underweight.

[Francis44]

Penaltys for factory teams is not that unusual, I remember Portugal 2007 where both factory Ford were penalized because of underweight rear windows.

[Mirek]

Yes, but they were given only time penalty, not disqualified. I can't remember other case than the one of Toni Gardemeister from last years.

[Allyc85]

I will never ever more nor read or answer N.O.T. in the future. His absence from this forrum should be best.

Fully agreed! No point arguing with someone so narrow minded...

[Viking]

Petter Solberg (http://www.pettersolberg.com)

The Petter Solberg World Rally Team has received some devastating news about today’s result on Rallye de France Alsace. Petter has lost his third place and has been excluded from the results. The following quotation is taken from Citroën Racing Technologies official press release:

At post-race scrutineering, the Norwegian’s DS3 WRC was checked and found to be 4 kilos under the minimum weight. “Petter is very disappointed as he drove brilliantly to score his third podium finish of the season. It’s also a big disappointment for our team,” said Benoît Nogier, the Citroën Racing Technologies director. “Obviously, we thought that our car’s weight complied with the regulations. Our safety margin, identical to the one we apply all year, wasn’t enough.” It has been decided not to appeal against this decision.

[Viking]

Petter Solberg (http://www.pettersolberg.com)

The Petter Solberg World Rally Team has received some devastating news about today’s result on Rallye de France Alsace. Petter has lost his third place and has been excluded from the results. The following quotation is taken from Citroën Racing Technologies official press release:

At post-race scrutineering, the Norwegian’s DS3 WRC was checked and found to be 4 kilos under the minimum weight. “Petter is very disappointed as he drove brilliantly to score his third podium finish of the season. It’s also a big disappointment for our team,” said Benoît Nogier, the Citroën Racing Technologies director. “Obviously, we thought that our car’s weight complied with the regulations. Our safety margin, identical to the one we apply all year, wasn’t enough.” It has been decided not to appeal against this decision.

[MartijnS]

http://i52.tinypic.com/qyxnvs.jpg

Solberg at weightcheck after stage 8. Just after the finish of the stage.

[dimviii]

http://i52.tinypic.com/qyxnvs.jpg

Solberg at weightcheck after stage 8. Just after the finish of the stage.

Was it inside limits after ss8? did you see how many kg was at this time?

[MartijnS]

Got no info about that, there was no discussion or something between Petter and the Scrutineers at least.

[bretddog]

Ken Rees:

"We don't understand anything, as the car was weighed many times during this rally. It's disastrous for Petter and our team, as we already have problems with the finances to complete the season"

source (http://www.vg.no/sport/motor/artikkel.php?artid=10039610)http://www.vg.no/sport/motor/artikkel.php?artid=10039610

[dimviii]

Got no info about that, there was no discussion or something between Petter and the Scrutineers at least.

that i was mention earlier about different scales,maybe..
another which i ve seen to happen is the weight with 2 spares/1 spare,as we are talking about 20-25 kg per wheel.

[MartijnS]

Every driver was told how much the car weighed at that moment by a guy of the FIA.

[bretddog]

that i was mention earlier about different scales,maybe..
another which i ve seen to happen is the weight with 2 spares/1 spare,as we are talking about 20-25 kg per wheel.

Well rules are clear, it's weighed with 1 spare. But I assume they gamble on the fuel, so on empty it's <1200kg.

[tfp]

Cant believe all of that BS with solberg, what a way to get more privateer entries.
And, he competes in the same cars as the two sebs? C'mon, this is a joke!

[GigiGalliNo1]

World Rally Championship - News - BREAKING NEWS: Petter excluded from rally (http://www.wrc.com/news/breaking-news-petter-excluded-from-rally/?fid=15528)

[ShiftingGears]

...Exclusion? The FIA are very inconsistent with their penalties regarding underweight cars.

[pete c]

hi, the scales used to weigh the cars are supplied by the FIA and are the same scales used for every weighing of the cars, from pre event to post event scrutineering.
the crews are informed of the weight at all weighings.
i guess it must have been at post event scrutineering the anomaly was found.
very harsh penalty i feel
cheers pete

[sollitt]

Exclusion is the correct penalty. How do you quantify the advantage of an underweight car?
At the end of the day the teams know the rules and an underweight car is effectively illegal equipment.
It is their responsibility to comply.

[Hartusvuori]

Yes, but they were given only time penalty, not disqualified. I can't remember other case than the one of Toni Gardemeister from last years.

You mean works team entries disqualified? Well, Finnish prime example of disqualification doesn't quite match for that, but in Rally Finland 2006 Juho Hänninen was excluded for having wrong kind of underwear, not the fireproof. Four other drivers - Urmo Aava among them - took the same sentence. Hänninen drove Mitsubishi WRC, his name as an entrant, but the car was as close to a works entry as possible with Mitsubishi at the time, I think.

[N.O.T]

example of disqualification of a works team..30gr underweight flywheel.

Burns gears up for Argentina victory after flywheel fiasco - Motor Racing, Sport - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/motor-racing/burns-gears-up-for-argentina-victory-after-flywheel-fiasco-590142.html)

[Mirek]

You mean works team entries disqualified? Well, Finnish prime example of disqualification doesn't quite match for that, but in Rally Finland 2006 Juho Hänninen was excluded for having wrong kind of underwear, not the fireproof. Four other drivers - Urmo Aava among them - took the same sentence. Hänninen drove Mitsubishi WRC, his name as an entrant, but the car was as close to a works entry as possible with Mitsubishi at the time, I think.

Yes, I meant manufacturer entries. Privateers are always disqualified for anything...

[Rallyper]

Now, if Petter´s car has been measured many times during the rally and not been found underweighted, how can they possibly prove his car was illegal during the stages? A post scrutinering measuring is of no meaning at all. That could have been Citroen factory cars as well.
Does anyone know have Citroen handled their cars before the power stage? I reccon Petter did all the same as factory cars to gain maximum speed at PS.

So how can this happen???!!! :confused: