Debris

[Erki]

What is it now, 3rd debris caution of the race? :rolleyes: :down:

[harvick#1]

just like at California at the end of the race. where was the Debris


Nascar shows favoritism towards Hendrick and there is proof today :mad:

Johnson was a lap short and once Gordon passed Harvick to become the first car one lap down, they threw the caution instantly :mad:

Nascar sucks big time

[race aficionado]

as a novice that is thrilled with Juan's 5th place "victory", I always find these scenarios you mention interesting . . . and troubling.
when Juan was 4th, the third place car (can't remember his name) was just going to run out of fuel and Juan would have moved ahead of him and then . . . the debris caution. Good luck or what you guys are implying? I hope it was just good ol' plain good luck.

[harvick#1]

just remember Johnson's sponsor was the main sponsor for the race. They certaintly didn't want Stewart to win and have Home Depot in victory Lane

but its a piss poor job by Nascar. why even run 300 laps when it comes down to complete bul-****

[Sandfly]

It is such BS. The first debris at lap 36 -- just when cars start getting lapped. Oh- and they have that free pass thing for lapped cars . Give me a break - It is the WWF on wheels and gasoline. I want to see Bill France and Bruton Smith in a steel cage smackdown. Just give me the T-shirt concession. I really feel sad for the folks who are livin in a doublewide and spending big money for a simulated leather rainbow warrior Jacket. Managed racing for entertainment sake.

[trumperZ06]

;) Well if the Steathy Debris supplied by Lockheed... upsets Y'all...

:D Wait til you see a bare-bones... Car of Tomorrow.

Looks like a Jalopy dirt tracker from... 1980.

:dozey: They had one of the Toyota COT's at the auto show this past week... here in Atlanta... comes equiped with a carburetor and distibutor powering the engine.

[DEI8151]

Pure crap, i mean where was the debris? im still waiting to see it.......not hard to figure out though stewart was running away with it and then debris to catch johnson up.

[Lee Roy]

The tin-foil hats are fitting kind of tight today, aren't they boys.

[truefan72]

I am tired of these bogus calls. I am in total agreement with all the posts about the debris situation total BS. It completely ruined both Montoya's and Stewarts race. NASCAR didn't want to see cars run out of fuel and and also wanted to see a 10 lap shoot out rather than just letting things happen.

I have tried very hard to watch these races but when I see such blatant abuse of regulations in order to set up a good "show" the line between competitive driving and a racing circus seem to become blurred.

It is almost tantamount to fixin' results

[truefan72]

just remember Johnson's sponsor was the main sponsor for the race. They certaintly didn't want Stewart to win and have Home Depot in victory Lane

but its a piss poor job by Nascar. why even run 300 laps when it comes down to complete bul-****

It seems like sponsors have a significant say in things at NASCAR.

Let's not forget about these situations

1. Sunoco unhappy with Harvick's BP car and look in victory lane ( probably were not happy that he won in the first place and this may be also have contributed to this weeks' resukts)

2. Nascar facing a lawsuit from AT&T becuase they won't allow Burton's Cingular car to change over to AT&T wirelless ( It is the Nextel champinship)

3. Similar situation with the Alltell car which was only allowed ti run due to grandfathered laws.

IMO cars should be allowed to have sponsorships from whomeever they darn well please WTF

[BobbyC]

I also ask if the last caution was influenced by allowing drivers to have their windshields cleaned. I question if some dust in Turns 1 and 2 needed to be swept. I also wonder if some drivers called "debris" because of the notorious glare in Turn 1 as a race gets later into the day. Turn 1 is notorious for the glare in the driver's eyes at that hour, as we saw last year with the 24/26 crash in that section with the sun in the driver's eyes midway through the run to the night in last year's race.

Was there an engine failure or excessive tire chunks?

[e2mtt]

I like fuel mileage finishes... with random cars running out and places changing like crazy. (Although I'm not neccesarily happy with the finishing order.)

That last caution with 12 to go was BOGUS. If they can't show the chunk of car or brocken track on TV, and record what it was in the race lap-by-lap, then there shouldn't be a caution. NASCAR just felt like it was a good time to bunch the feild and make sure everybody had enough gas to finish, especially a few favored ones.

I was just suprised they didn't run the caution 2 laps longer so that they could start single file with 10 to go, so they didn't have to have Robby Gordon hanging around next to the leaders 1 lap down, rather then in back where he belongs.

[dont_be_jack]

Hey, we all know that the drivers petition their asses off about debris to NASCAR when they know that they need to pit and would rather do it under the caution.

[djparky]

I always wonder about "debris" cautions...but the problem is these cars are running at 180mph round that track and if they left it and ripped open a tyre and a driver was seriously hurt then well imagine the repercussions.

but yes sometimes they are convinient- same has happened in IRL, CCWS and even the BTCC when the field got too spread out- there have been a few times when I've been watching a race hoping they'll throw the caution flag just to bunch the field up again just to relieve the boredom for a while

[blakebeatty]

the other thing about debris is that if it exists, and is hit by a car, it certainly has the potential of entering the crowd with lethal force. and if one person loses their life (or gets injured for that matter) because a debris caution is not thrown it is unacceptable

[Erki]

Usually when US goes to commercial, my TV channel(Viasat Sport 3) switches to someone's(Jr's) onboard cam and there have been numerous times when a debris caution has been waved and watching from onboard cam, there's no-one picking up debris whatsoever - bogus.

[call_me_andrew]

I always wonder about "debris" cautions...but the problem is these cars are running at 180mph round that track and if they left it and ripped open a tyre and a driver was seriously hurt then well imagine the repercussions.

I've gotten so frustrated with them, that I'm willing to sacrifice a life if it may keep the racing honest.


It completely ruined both Montoya's and Stewarts race.

I thought it would have helped Montoya. He said he was loose, I believe the condition worsened over long runs...


just remember Johnson's sponsor was the main sponsor for the race. They certaintly didn't want Stewart to win and have Home Depot in victory Lane

Actually, it's not that simple. Since Atlanta is an Speedway Motorsports track, Bruton Smith is incharge of promoting the races. He's the guy that wants the Kobalt car to win, but during the race NASCAR is incharge and Bruton needs NASCAR more than NASCAR needs Bruton.

[R. Mears]

Some very good points made here. I remember years ago at the Indy 500 the winner(can't remember who)refused to drink milk at the end of the race. Indiana is a big dairy state. There was a big uproar about that. I think they were even talking about not letting that driver race at Indy again. He simply said I don't like milk.
Bottom line is(like it or not)big money and big business gets what they want. But they try like heck not to make it obvious.
Yes it is ruining the sport IMO.

[Erki]

Hey Mears, I'd like to know, who was that winner who didn't drink that milk?
I wonder what would a teetotaler do if (s)he's on the podium with champagne. Or what did (s)he do because I'm sure it has happened.

About bogus cautions: I wonder how NA$CAR gets away with them when they have millions of viewers. Surely some of them would complain?

[Lee Roy]

Hey Mears, I'd like to know, who was that winner who didn't drink that milk?

It was Emerson Fittipaldi. It was at one of his wins at the Indy 500 and when they handed him the traditional flask of milk in victory lane, he pushed it aside and someone who he had planted there handed him a flask of orange juice and Emerson said "In Brazil, we drink orange juice" or something of that nature. Emerson owns some very large orange groves in Brazil.

It upset the Indy crowd real bad. I thought it was funny.

[blakebeatty]

Some very good points made here. I remember years ago at the Indy 500 the winner(can't remember who)refused to drink milk at the end of the race. Indiana is a big dairy state. There was a big uproar about that. I think they were even talking about not letting that driver race at Indy again. He simply said I don't like milk.
Bottom line is(like it or not)big money and big business gets what they want. But they try like heck not to make it obvious.
Yes it is ruining the sport IMO.

the funny thing about big business is that it DOES NOT RUIN THE SPORT, for if the big businesses showed no interest, the sport would not exist. I don't see the issues that people have with sponsorship, it's totally give and take. I like watching racing live, in High Definition, Widescreen, 5.1 Surround from my living room 2500 miles away from the track, the sponsorship facilitates this.

As for the milk thing, that is just a spit in the face of tradition. What if the brickyard winner didn't kiss the bricks, or the Daytona 500 winner refused to lift the Harley J. Earl. No one person is above the sport, and to me, that is the statement that was made.

[harvick#1]

remember Jeffy got a toast by Earnhardt with Milk at the Awards ceremony :p :

[R. Mears]

When the caution comes out like some mentioned here for no apparent reason other than to "bunch up" the cars give them a chance to get tires/fuel for a better finish. Or for Jimmy Johnson to win cause he's driving Lowes instead of Home Depot that gives some an unfair advantage like several have mentioned here. It's not one extreme to the other. Yes sponsers are needed but not needed to indirectly dictate the outcome of a race. Speculation?

Harvick kissing the bricks is different from driinking milk or pepsi like 24 does after every win. I don't think there's a brick company logo on the bricks visable to the viewers. But you know what I mean.

[call_me_andrew]

Hey Mears, I'd like to know, who was that winner who didn't drink that milk?
I wonder what would a teetotaler do if (s)he's on the podium with champagne. Or what did (s)he do because I'm sure it has happened.

About bogus cautions: I wonder how NA$CAR gets away with them when they have millions of viewers. Surely some of them would complain?

Well as a teetotaler, I can tell you what I would do. I'd spray the champagne with out drinking any, and then I would sell the bottle and give the money to charity. Or if I just wanted to have a little fun, I'd spray the champagne with out drinking any, and then just smash the bottle on the ground.

Of course the viewers complain. We're complaining now. Some people watch not because they want to or because they like the direction NASCAR is going in, but they feel that they have to. When you watch something you don't like, you feel entitled to control it and mold it to your favor.

[R. Mears]

It was Emerson Fittipaldi. It was at one of his wins at the Indy 500 and when they handed him the traditional flask of milk in victory lane, he pushed it aside and someone who he had planted there handed him a flask of orange juice and Emerson said "In Brazil, we drink orange juice" or something of that nature. Emerson owns some very large orange groves in Brazil.

It upset the Indy crowd real bad. I thought it was funny.
Yes EF rings a bell. Do you remember what year it was? Back in the '90s sometime?

Heck even Jeff Gordon has done a commercial with a milk mustache. LMAO

One can always pretend to drink "what ever" letting it run down your face just to make it look good. Heck most get sprayed with champagne anyway so who cares. Gotta keep the sponsers happy one way or another.

[call_me_andrew]

That was in 1993. I think it was more self promotion than anything else.

This practice first began in 1936 after victor Louis Meyer asked for a glass of buttermilk, something his mother had encouraged him to drink on hot days. Afterward it became a ritual as milk companies became sponsors of the race purse and handed a bottle of milk to the winner to promote their product. A sponsorship of currently $10,000 now paid out by the American Dairy Association if the winner swigs the milk in victory lane.

Since most drivers are sensitive about their diets these days, they're given a choice of whole, low fat, or skim milk.

[R. Mears]

He won in 1993. I think it was more self promotion than anything else.
OK I didn't think it was that long ago. Though I knew it was from the CART days. I was just going to do some googling to see if I can find the story. I remember it was all over the news the next few days. At least around here.

[call_me_andrew]

Talk about bad timing on an edit.

[R. Mears]

Talk about bad timing on an edit.
LOL Emerson won it in '89 too. So I'll give you half credit. I'll change it for ya. LOL

[Jonesi]

Some very good points made here. I remember years ago at the Indy 500 the winner(can't remember who)refused to drink milk at the end of the race. Indiana is a big dairy state. There was a big uproar about that. I think they were even talking about not letting that driver race at Indy again. He simply said I don't like milk.
Bottom line is(like it or not)big money and big business gets what they want. But they try like heck not to make it obvious.
Yes it is ruining the sport IMO.

It was Emerson Fittipaldi. He said something like "I prefer orange juice" (he owns big orange groves back in Brazil and sells orange juice;-) The "big uproar" was all news media created, a few days later the head of the milk board said something like "We're not angry, his doing that got us about ten times the publicity than we usually get".

[R. Mears]

It was Emerson Fittipaldi. He said something like "I prefer orange juice" (he owns big orange groves back in Brazil and sells orange juice;-) The "big uproar" was all news media created, a few days later the head of the milk board said something like "We're not angry, his doing that got us about ten times the publicity than we usually get".
Yea, but that's not what they originally thought. LOL

I did some googling and couldn't find any details other than what's been mentioned here. Oh well.

[Jonesi]

Hey Mears, I'd like to know, who was that winner who didn't drink that milk?
I wonder what would a teetotaler do if (s)he's on the podium with champagne. Or what did (s)he do because I'm sure it has happened.

In F1 when Williams had Saudi Air as a sponsor, when they won champagne was not used at all. When they were 2nd or 3rd just their drivers didn't take the bottles. Somewhere in the back of my mind I recall someone in F1 or Cart didn't drink, didn't take the champagne, no big deal. The real problem is if the winner is underage and they forget and give him the champagne!

[Erki]

I guess if you happen to be lactose intolerant, you better don't win Indy 500. :)

[Erki]

In F1 when Williams had Saudi Air as a sponsor, when they won champagne was not used at all. When they were 2nd or 3rd just their drivers didn't take the bottles. Somewhere in the back of my mind I recall someone in F1 or Cart didn't drink, didn't take the champagne, no big deal. The real problem is if the winner is underage and they forget and give him the champagne!

Don't they give the champagnes in F3 races as well? Or do they get some sort of lemonade? :) Or rose extract or what they have at Bahrain GP.

[R. Mears]

N/A champagne for the youngsters. The crowd can't tell the difference. :D

[Jonesi]

That was in 1993. I think it was more self promotion than anything else.

This practice first began in 1936 after victor Louis Meyer asked for a glass of buttermilk, something his mother had encouraged him to drink on hot days. Afterward it became a ritual as milk companies became sponsors of the race purse and handed a bottle of milk to the winner to promote their product. A sponsorship of currently $10,000 now paid out by the American Dairy Association if the winner swigs the milk in victory lane.

Since most drivers are sensitive about their diets these days, they're given a choice of whole, low fat, or skim milk.

I thought $100,000 was mentioned in the EF case.
Choice is a good idea, (and I think one year they mentioned chocolate.) If you are only used to whole milk and someone slips you skim, your first instinct is to spit it out and say "What the H*** is that S***!" Which does NOT go over well with the sponsor.

[Alexamateo]

I guess if you happen to be lactose intolerant, you better don't win Indy 500. :)

No they'll provide any type milk you want, whole, 2%, skim, buttermilk, or even soy. They ask every driver before the race what their preference is and they'll have it ready for you in victory lane! :)

[RaikkonenRules]

Why are we suddenly talking about milk? :confused:

[Erki]

No they'll provide any type milk you want, whole, 2%, skim, buttermilk, or even soy. They ask every driver before the race what their preference is and they'll have it ready for you in victory lane! :)

So they have 33 different types of milk ready? What do they do with those 32 that are left?

[R. Mears]

Why are we suddenly talking about milk? :confused:
Cause it's the choice of champions at the Indy 500. :D

Actually I started it. Read back through the previous page and you'll see why.

[Alexamateo]

So they have 33 different types of milk ready? What do they do with those 32 that are left?

:laugh: No, I am sure there's only one winner and 4 or 5 types of milk, I'm just saying that if you, Erki, are lactose intolerant and you win the Indy 500. They will have lactose free soy milk waiting for you in victory lane. :p :

[Erki]

That's very good. Now I think I can go to sleep and see sweet dreams of me winning the Indy 500. :) :s nore:

[RaceFanStan]

Someone should request breast milk straight from the source ..... ;) :laugh:

[Lee Roy]

Yea, but that's not what they originally thought. LOL

I did some googling and couldn't find any details other than what's been mentioned here. Oh well.

I'm old enough to remember it happen.

Go to http://www.trackforum.com and ask those folk over there. They live and breathe Indy.

[Lee Roy]

When Formula One races in Bahrain, they are not able to use any alcohol for the podium celebration. They use bottles of rose water.

[DavePI2]

Maybe all these bogus races is why there are so many empty seats starting to appear at nascar races. I wonder what excuse nascar used for this race. No acadamy awards this weekend. I gave nascar my money last year at Indy, never again, that race was a joke. 3 best examples of fixes, califonia 06, Indy 06 , Mexico City 07. Amazing how that yellow flag for debris(why wasn't it a local yellow) came out just as Montoya was about to be passed. How many places did Montoya make up after the fuel problem? I don't care how much a supperior driver montoya is to anyone there, you don't do that at a road race unless there is some help.

David

[R. Mears]

I'm old enough to remember it happen.

Go to www.trackforum.com (http://www.trackforum.com) and ask those folk over there. They live and breathe Indy.
I used to live and breathe Indy untill Tony George kicked out the CART cars back in '92 I think? Went there for 13 years straight. The last year I went was when Buddy Lazier won in '93. Now it's just not the same wild party plus I'm gettin too old to keep up. Had some great times there though. Can't mention all the details here, but lets just say some tail and tail gating was involved. Oh yea and some breasts too but not breast milk. :eek: :D :p



When Formula One races in Bahrain, they are not able to use any alcohol for the podium celebration. They use bottles of rose water.
Rose water? What a bunch of pansies!!LOL

[Lee Roy]

Maybe all these bogus races is why there are so many empty seats starting to appear at nascar races. I wonder what excuse nascar used for this race. No acadamy awards this weekend. I gave nascar my money last year at Indy, never again, that race was a joke. 3 best examples of fixes, califonia 06, Indy 06 , Mexico City 07. Amazing how that yellow flag for debris(why wasn't it a local yellow) came out just as Montoya was about to be passed. How many places did Montoya make up after the fuel problem? I don't care how much a supperior driver montoya is to anyone there, you don't do that at a road race unless there is some help.

David

Troll, Troll, Troll your boat . . .

[Erki]

Rose water? What a bunch of pansies!!LOL

I don't see what's wrong with that. It's Bahrain's culture and if they don't want to spray rose water instead of the usual champagne then they can also wave bye bye to the GP.

[Erki]

Troll, Troll, Troll your boat . . .

I don't remember those races any more and didn't see Mexico 07 altogether but bogus cautions tick me off, regardless of the intention(get another winner or get a close finish)

[Old3Fan]

Some very good points made here. I remember years ago at the Indy 500 the winner(can't remember who)refused to drink milk at the end of the race. Indiana is a big dairy state. There was a big uproar about that. I think they were even talking about not letting that driver race at Indy again. He simply said I don't like milk.
Bottom line is(like it or not)big money and big business gets what they want. But they try like heck not to make it obvious.
Yes it is ruining the sport IMO.

That would be Emerson Fittipaldi I think.

[tintop]

the funny thing about big business is that it DOES NOT RUIN THE SPORT, for if the big businesses showed no interest, the sport would not exist. I don't see the issues that people have with sponsorship, it's totally give and take. I like watching racing live, in High Definition, Widescreen, 5.1 Surround from my living room 2500 miles away from the track, the sponsorship facilitates this.

Like manipulation constitutes racing, what a joke, even on a big old TV set.