Osama Bin Laden Is Dead

[ICWS]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13256676

[gloomyDAY]

Hooah! Good job to all our boys in Afghanistan.

I'm so relieved that son-of-a-bitch is dead.

[harsha]

but then he was killed in Islamabad (pakistan capital)

good news for the world in fact

[gloomyDAY]

but then he was killed in Islamabad (pakistan capital)

good news for the world in factRight, killed in Pakistan, so good job to our Special Ops!

Some lucky U.S. service member shot that punk.

[Ranger]

Gotcha.

[harsha]

wow , and it seems that osama has been in hiding in islamabad for the past one year.....some allies that USA has

[Rollo]

I refuse to believe anything until I see the long-form death certificate. :D

[Camelopard]

I refuse to believe anything until I see the long-form death certificate. :D


Don't worry Donald will claim credit for this as well, just wait and see! :p :

[markabilly]

Oh, no!! Somebody get Eki a hankie, so he can have a good cry!!! :(





I refuse to believe anything until I see the long-form death certificate. :D

I think they are bringing his head and body back to the USA, or atleast what is left of it. Hopefully, they will mount what is left of him at the World Trade Center for you and everybody to see.....

TOO bad, some slow torture would have brought some smiles to some faces. :vader:

[Jag_Warrior]

I refuse to believe anything until I see the long-form death certificate. :D

I wish this forum allowed us to give "positive rep" to members for posts. Because with that, I could give you some longer lasting praise. Short of that, I can just take my hat off to you for that timely (and damn witty) reply! I'm sure there are some tighty righties who are busy trying to find fault with this. And let me be the first to turn the tables and tell any of them that do: America, love it or leave it, biatches!!! :p :

And damn good job by the U.S. special forces and the Pakistani sources who helped to take this monster off the planet.

[gloomyDAY]

I think they are bringing his head and body back to the USA, or atleast what is left of it. Hopefully, they will mount what is left of him at the World Trade Center for you and everybody to see.....

TOO bad, some slow torture would have brought some smiles to some faces. :vader: I'm glad he's been killed, but what you're stating is disgusting. Conduct an autopsy on the ****er, document all evidence, and bury Osama. The sooner the better, so America can move forward and deal with the war in Afghanistan.


I'm sure there are some tighty righties who are busy trying to find fault with this. And let me be the first to turn the tables and tell any of them that do: America, love it or leave it, biatches!!! :p :[Troll mode]The only reason Osama was caught was because of George Bush.[/Troll mode]

I'm also curious to see how Barack is going to be wrongly implicated for Osama's capture. My guess is that the right-wing nuts are going to say that Osama wasn't captured soon enough, or that his death was not gruesome enough to be considered American. :D

[markabilly]

I'm glad he's been killed, but what you're stating is disgusting. Conduct an autopsy on the ****er, document all evidence, and bury Osama. The sooner the better, so America can move forward and deal with the war in Afghanistan.



drawn and quartered, as the real brits used to do it, slow and painful. :s mokin:

Besides, you did not think they would bring him back alive, even if he turned the yellow streak people like him got, who have no problem sending others off to die, but have a history of being the rabbit, when they come for him?

But prepare yourselves; if you thought that burning a koran would set off the savages, i would guess they will be jumping around all over the place after croaking Osama, like a bunch of cockroaches when you turn on the lights



they need to burn the body, turn it to ashes, and spread it in the wind

[Rollo]

: america, love it or leave it, biatches!!! :p :

And damn good job by the u.s. Special forces and the pakistani sources who helped to take this monster off the planet.


with help from 37 other countries!!! :eek:

[Jag_Warrior]

In giving thanks, I don't know everyone who made a contribution. I mean to leave no one out who made a contribution.

[donKey jote]

at last ! :up:


I refuse to believe anything until I see the long-form death certificate. :D
:laugh: :laugh:

[Jag_Warrior]

[Troll mode]The only reason Osama was caught was because of George Bush.[/Troll mode]

I'm also curious to see how Barack is going to be wrongly implicated for Osama's capture. My guess is that the right-wing nuts are going to say that Osama wasn't captured soon enough, or that his death was not gruesome enough to be considered American. :D

A tighty righty/wingnut on another board I'm on has already said that it was the hard work and brave efforts of President G.W. Bush that made all this possible. Even the resident Republicans and Obama haters are turning their backs on the poor guy. A European nutter and Obama hater (actually just an average racist) is claiming that it's not really Osama and if it is, Obama had the body hidden and is just now rolling it out in a staged event. I tell ya what, the Deathers and the Birthers can dream up the most elaborate conspiracy theories I've ever seen. It alarms me to think that many of these people have probably reproduced... and their spawn may affect our futures.


And BTW, did ya know that today is the 8th anniversary of W.'s "Mission Accomplished" speech about the nation building exercise in Iraq? Cruel irony, eh?

XzrJwzYBUkU

[donKey jote]

Cruel irony, eh?



No, I bet the timing was deliberate ;) :p

Great stuff from the Seals to go in to such a fortified building (built in 2005 in the middle of a part of town where a lot of the Pakistani top brass live), nab his body and get out again :crazy: :up:

My view is this is also in part a result of Obama's sweettalking the Pakistanis better than his predecessor did. What say you roaming bobs ? :p

[donKey jote]

Is it just me or does this coverage not sound as euphoric as I would have expected after Public Enemy #1 is finally nabbed ?
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4671825/new-details-on-mission-that-killed-bin-laden/

[DexDexter]

Justice served although it would have been a lot better to get him alive but that obviously wasn't possible.

[Jag_Warrior]

My view is this is also in part a result of Obama's sweettalking the Pakistanis better than his predecessor did. What say you roaming bobs ? :p

Bob can't come to the phone right now, DonKey. I can't see too well from here. But there's something going on at his house that involves an ambulance, two cars full of cops, a straight jacket, some guys with a net and one holding a tranquilizer gun.

http://i.ehow.co.uk/images/a04/bn/nq/what-enhancements-can-enzyte-2.1-800X800.jpg

[Mark]

Pakistan has a lot to answer for here.

[ShiftingGears]

Pretty stoked. :D

[Ranger]

Pakistan has a lot to answer for here.

Indeed, his compound was only 100 metres from a Pakistani military academy. Dubious.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/osama-holed-up-in-house-near-military-academy-20110502-1e4pj.html

Questions that will be answered in the following days and months, no doubt.

Nonetheless, for the next few days people should simply be relieved at this moment in history. :up:

[AndySpeed]

Pakistan has a lot to answer for here.

They certainly do

[Daniel]

Bye bye Ozzie. Have fun burning in hell

[Daniel]

I don't see why Pakistan has anything to answer for? Does the UK know exactly who is here?

Trust an Indian person to blame Pakistan.....

[Ranger]

I don't see why Pakistan has anything to answer for? Does the UK know exactly who is here?

Trust an Indian person to blame Pakistan.....

Reportedly, the large, off-the-grid compound was just 100 metres from a Pakistani military base.

I'm not going to attribute blame but that's a bit dubious if true, is it not?

[Daniel]

Why? Should all houses within a certain radius of bases be searched?

[Ranger]

Why? Should all houses within a certain radius of bases be searched?

Obviously not.

My point is that questions need to be asked.

Why did it take 9 years for a decent tip-off on a very recognisable man?

Who was helping him?

Why did he turn up, in all places, in a town best known as a garrison for the Pakistani military? Coincidence or not? We don't (yet) know.

That's my own opinion anyway, I'm not speaking for anyone else.

[donKey jote]

http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23ReallyVirtual
http://www.reallyvirtual.com/ :bandit: :cool:

[Daniel]

I'm sorry, but he probably looks like a loads of other Muslim men.
The immediate area around a military compound is probably the best place for a wanted man to hide.

Should he have hidden in a cave?

[donKey jote]

daniel it boils down to the fact that the CIA took 4+ years after the first lead to find an unusual man in an unusual place but found him in the end: you mean to say the ISI hadn't a clue who lived in this big fat bunker built 6 years ago in the middle of a peaceful neighbourhood ? If they didn't, they have a lot to answer for... if they did, go figure !

end of trollfeed :p

[Daniel]

daniel it boils down to the fact that the CIA took 4+ years after the first lead to find an unusual man in an unusual place but found him in the end: you mean to say the ISI hadn't a clue who lived in this big fat bunker in the middle of a peaceful neighbourhood ? If they didn't, they have a lot to answer for... if they did, go figure !

end of trollfeed :p

I simply don't see the logic in that statement. Do the ISI know who lives in every building in Pakistan? Do the CIA know who lives in every building in the US? The fact that Ozzy seemingly spent a lot of time in this place, yet the US spent most of its time looking for him in the mountains of Afghanistan and the tribal areas of Pakistan says it all. There is practically nothing that would have stopped Ozzy from crossing the border into India or into Bangladesh or wherever. But logic dictates that he would stay where his support base is strongest. Lets say for a moment that he had been in India? Would we then have accused India of supporting him? By this same logic, the US supported the people who flew the aircraft into the twin towers on the basis that they lived AND trained in the USA. No one would suggest that because of course it is in fact ridiculous.

Does anyone here honestly think that that Al Qaeda didn't take every precaution to avoid Ozzy being detected? Do you honestly think Ozzy spent his last years preaching from on top of the high walls of the compound, making his presence known to all?

For those who think Pakistan was happy to have Ozzy there because he was found near a military base, this might make some good reading for you :) http://www.wtc7.net/ :)

[Bagwan]

There's something really fishy about this guy being buried at sea .
Did he fall out of the plane or something ? That happens all the time .

They "took custody" of his body .
And , then dropped it the ocean ?

Fishy , fishy , fishy .

What's going on here ?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

There's something really fishy about this guy being buried at sea .
Did he fall out of the plane or something ? That happens all the time .

They "took custody" of his body .
And , then dropped it the ocean ?

Fishy , fishy , fishy .

What's going on here ?


Two reasons. Muslim tradition is a burial within 24 hours of death, and dumping his body at sea means no grave to become a shrine.

[DexDexter]

There's something really fishy about this guy being buried at sea .
Did he fall out of the plane or something ? That happens all the time .

They "took custody" of his body .
And , then dropped it the ocean ?

Fishy , fishy , fishy .

What's going on here ?

Nothing is going on. It's really simple: they don't want his followers to have a place to go to honour his memory. Muslims need to be buried within 24 hours of their death and Americans, very wisely, honoured that since the mission is accomplished, no need to make his followers/other muslims any more angry.

Go back to JFK and the theories.

[Sonic]

Two reasons. Muslim tradition is a burial within 24 hours of death, and dumping his body at sea means no grave to become a shrine.

Indeed. Plus trying to find a country to accept the body of the worlds most hated man would be a touch challenging wouldn't you say?

[Daniel]

Indeed. Plus trying to find a country to accept the body of the worlds most hated man would be a touch challenging wouldn't you say?
Saudi Arabia were asked if they wanted the body and declined

[gadjo_dilo]

Nothing is going on. It's really simple: they don't want his followers to have a place to go to honour his memory. Muslims need to be buried within 24 hours of their death and Americans, very wisely, honoured that since the mission is accomplished, no need to make his followers/other muslims any more angry.



That's interesting...
Since when have the americans become so sensitive to muslim traditions?

Buried or unburied, for fundamentalists the guy will become a martir anyway. The wise move would have been to catch him alive and to send him to court.

[Sonic]

That's interesting...
Since when have the americans become so sensitive to muslim traditions?

Buried or unburied, for fundamentalists the guy will become a martir anyway. The wise move would have been to catch him alive and send him to court.

Been there. Done that. What was his name again? Sadam someone or other.

Seriously, I imagine the orders were dead or alive - Osama, by choosing a fire fight, chose the former.

Daniel: where did you hear that about SA? Very interesting.

[Daniel]

Been there. Done that. What was his name again? Sadam someone or other.

Seriously, I imagine the orders were dead or alive - Osama, by choosing a fire fight, chose the former.

Daniel: where did you hear that about SA? Very interesting.

I live in North wales :p heard it on the BBC

[Sonic]

^^^^

LOL! been cooped up in my motor all morning - you can be my alternative to aunty beeb.

[Bagwan]

Destroy the evidence .
Move along .
Nothing to see here .

We got him . Just leave it at that .

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain . The Great Oz has spoken .



Really , why would anyone believe anything the press says the government says ?

We vote today .
Our government fell because they were found to be in comtempt of parliament , the first occurance of this in our history .

The likelyhood is , that he and his contemptuous cronies will return to power .

[gadjo_dilo]

Just watching the footage on the BBC of where he was hiding and its quite astonishing he remained there for so long. A large compound surrounded by barbed wire and in the middle of smaller unlinked shacks etc etc. I wonder if anyone living there was suspicious of this compound that only went up 5 years ago and seemed superior to anything else in the town?? :)

Now I remember another famous case. Radovan Karadzic accused of war crimes and Srebenica massacre was a fugitive from 1996 until July 2008 after having been indicted for war crimes by the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia. During this period the guy worked at a private clinic in Belgrade specialising in alternative medicine and psychology and they say he even attended some football matches of Serie A.

In Obama's case I can't understand something else. He obviously had links with Al Queda during this period and I wonder what intelligence services did. He could have hide on that building but I suppose he still was visited and coordinated the organization.

[cali]

Not so good news at all! Why is everybody happy that someone is killed (eventhough it was Osama)? Especially when now he is killed, he becomes automatically a martyr for every muslim extremist. I expect really crazy times from now on ...

[Daniel]

Now I remember another famous case. Radovan Karadzic accused of war crimes and Srebenica massacre was a fugitive from 1996 until July 2008 after having been indicted for war crimes by the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia. During this period the guy worked at a private clinic in Belgrade specialising in alternative medicine and psychology and they say he even attended some football matches of Serie A.

In Obama's case I can't understand something else. He obviously had links with Al Queda during this period and I wonder what intelligence services did. He could have hide on that building but I suppose he still was visited and coordinated the organization.

Are you really so ignorant to not know the difference between Osama and Obama?

[veeten]

Bob?... Tony?... anyone seen them? I thought they would be the first to comment, but I guess...

[Daniel]

Yeah that is a little strange

[donKey jote]

Maybe they're a little peeved that their beloved Obama appears to have finally delivered on Bush's promises :p

[Daniel]

Yeah :D

[Roamy]

That's interesting...
Since when have the americans become so sensitive to muslim traditions?

Buried or unburied, for fundamentalists the guy will become a martir anyway. The wise move would have been to catch him alive and to send him to court.

Right like we need to spend more money on this puke. I am very pleased with the outcome as well as most of the civilized world.

[Daniel]

Plus its not like his guilt is in doubt

[Sonic]

Not so good news at all! Why is everybody happy that someone is killed (eventhough it was Osama)? Especially when now he is killed, he becomes automatically a martyr for every muslim extremist. I expect really crazy times from now on ...

Personally I wouldn't say I'm "happy" he's dead, more satisfied with the conclusion of the man hunt. I do take your point about his Matyr status, but wouldn't that happen anyway if he was captured, and, almost certainly, sentenced to death?

The head of the monster has been cut off, but the body is still twitching and is deadly dangerous.

[Bob Riebe]

I refuse to believe anything until I see the long-form death certificate. :D Limbaugh just said deathers like you would pop-out of the wood work.

The Obama actually fulfilled a campaign probmise-- SHIZAM!

I guess his decision to not coddle the trash in Club Gitmo paid off- good for Obama and good for Bush, that chapter is closed.

[Mark]

Bin Laden and Lord Voldemort both died today :o

[DexDexter]

Are you really so ignorant to not know the difference between Osama and Obama?

Give it a rest man.

[Bob Riebe]

Here is the picuture that so far Pres. Obama's Adm. says is to gruesome to release.
He is probably afraid of insulting what Bush called a "religion of peace".http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-M3Jm8pv7HWE/Tb5TTmgBVFI/AAAAAAAAE_I/pJotD1tpVuk/s400/osama-dead2.jpg

[ICWS]

Here is the picuture that so far Pres. Obama's Adm. says is to gruesome to realease.
He is probably afraid of insulting what Bush called a "religion of peace".http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-M3Jm8pv7HWE/Tb5TTmgBVFI/AAAAAAAAE_I/pJotD1tpVuk/s400/osama-dead2.jpg

Nice try, Bob...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-fake

[Daniel]

The pictures are photoshops bob

[Jag_Warrior]

Here is the picuture that so far Pres. Obama's Adm. says is to gruesome to release.
He is probably afraid of insulting what Bush called a "religion of peace".

No, he's afraid of getting "Rick Rolled"... like you did. :D

Deposit a quarter and try again.

[ICWS]

Personally I wouldn't say I'm "happy" he's dead, more satisfied with the conclusion of the man hunt. I do take your point about his Matyr status, but wouldn't that happen anyway if he was captured, and, almost certainly, sentenced to death?

The head of the monster has been cut off, but the body is still twitching and is deadly dangerous.

Yeah, I don't entirely agree with Barack Obama that "the world is a safer place" with Bin Laden dead. As long as the United States continues it's method of foreign policy and socio-economic oppression of Arab nations and the like, anti-U.S. terrorists will continue to exist. Remember, as Michael Scheuer put it, we're not necessarily hated for our Democracy and freedoms, we are hated for our foreign policy.

[AndySpeed]

Is that photo real or a shop?

[Bagwan]

Being that Osama and Obama are really only one letter apart , it makes sense to interview new talent in the terrorist sector , as , at times , it could get too confusing .
None of the "good" guys wants it written into the script that they should have to wear white hats , except when it comes time for photo-ops at factories .
You're a target in a white hat .

They could go back to that old TV trick used in the Batman series , where they showed the Riddler's or the Joker's hideout on a tilted camera , so we knew we were in enemy territory without having to think too much .

Opinions should be easy to come by without having to think so damn much .
I think I'll turn on CNN and see what I think today .

[Bob Riebe]

Being that Osama and Obama are really only one letter apart , it makes sense to interview new talent in the terrorist sector , as , at times , it could get too confusing .
None of the "good" guys wants it written into the script that they should have to wear white hats , except when it comes time for photo-ops at factories .
You're a target in a white hat .

They could go back to that old TV trick used in the Batman series , where they showed the Riddler's or the Joker's hideout on a tilted camera , so we knew we were in enemy territory without having to think too much .

Opinions should be easy to come by without having to think so damn much .
I think I'll turn on CNN and see what I think today .
Gee you boys always want a net link for proof and now you do not like what the net has-- oh well.

Has anyone seen the Spanish picture that according to the airwaves is real? Or is that just this same photo shop?

[Roamy]

hackmore said before he died that the way you will win in Afghanistan is to make the mountains "glow"

[Bob Riebe]

Thank God Obama ignored the demands of his supporters to shut down the team that reportedly snuffed Osama. It has been said-- it is the same boys that did in Saddam.

It is kind of odd though that Pres. Obama almost never used the word "I" when speaking of his administrations acts, but now from readings I have heard of his press comm. it sounds like the one episode from the Prisoner- I, I, I-- I, I, I-- I, I, I....

Thank God for reelection pressure.

[Jag_Warrior]

Gee you boys always want a net link for proof and now you do not like what the net has-- oh well.

Cause we all know that if it's on the internet, it MUST be true, huh? How hard was this to figure out... really?
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/5/2/1304329535701/An-image-purporting-to-sh-004.jpg


Why not be a good American, Bob? Why not put your extreme partisan loyalty aside and cheer for the Commander-in-Chief who ordered the killing of the most dangerous terrorist of our time... the guy who ordered an attack on the United States of America? For (just) one day, why not do that? Then tomorrow you can go back to nit picking everything you can think of about Obama. Today, come on and be part of the team, eh?

[Malbec]

While I'm glad OBL met his end I'm also happy that he lived long enough to see his dream of an Islamic pan-Middle Eastern caliphate being torn up in front of his eyes by the very people he was trying to 'save', the Arabs themselves. Watching Arab country after country rise up against their dictatorial leaders was what he wanted but to watch them demand democracy and an open society, even the Islamists, rather than an Islamic state must have hurt him more than a bullet in the head.

[Daniel]

While I'm glad OBL met his end I'm also happy that he lived long enough to see his dream of an Islamic pan-Middle Eastern caliphate being torn up in front of his eyes by the very people he was trying to 'save', the Arabs themselves. Watching Arab country after country rise up against their dictatorial leaders was what he wanted but to watch them demand democracy and an open society, even the Islamists, rather than an Islamic state must have hurt him more than a bullet in the head.
well said :)

[Rollo]

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201105/r760252_6382385.jpg

How often do we think that Fox have made "mistakes" with their captions over the past 18 odd hours? I found six whilst watching telly yesterday.

[Eki]

They've been showing celebrating Americans on TV today. That reminded me of the celebrating Palestinians after the 9/11 attacks. Both equally petty and distasteful IMO. Death of human beings isn't a cause for celebration (nor is death of animals).

[Daniel]

They've been showing celebrating Americans on TV today. That reminded me of the celebrating Palestinians after the 9/11 attacks. Both equally petty and distasteful IMO. Death of human beings isn't a cause for celebration.

I disagree. The guy was repsonsible for a lot of deaths. his death is a good thing

[Eki]

I disagree. The guy was repsonsible for a lot of deaths.
So were George W Bush, Winston Churchill, Abraham Lincoln, Harry Truman, Richard Nixon, etc.

And I heard they didn't kill just Osama bin Laden, but also three others. And how many did they kill before they even found Osama? They wanted Osama so bad that they didn't care that school children, wedding parties, etc were killed in the process.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

They've been showing celebrating Americans on TV today. That reminded me of the celebrating Palestinians after the 9/11 attacks. Both equally petty and distasteful IMO. Death of human beings isn't a cause for celebration (nor is death of animals).

I understand the sentiment, but this isn’t just a bloodthirsty nation celebrating the death of a frail old man.

[Bob Riebe]

So were George W Bush, Winston Churchill, Abraham Lincoln, Harry Truman, Richard Nixon, etc.

And I heard they didn't kill just Osama bin Laden, but also three others. And how many did they kill before they even found Osama? They wanted Osama so bad that they didn't care that school children, wedding parties, etc were killed in the process.
I don't know and frankly Charlotte, I don't really give a damn.
Your crocodile tears are underwhelming.

[Bob Riebe]

Cause we all know that if it's on the internet, it MUST be true, huh? How hard was this to figure out... really?
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/5/2/1304329535701/An-image-purporting-to-sh-004.jpg


Why not be a good American, Bob? Why not put your extreme partisan loyalty aside and cheer for the Commander-in-Chief who ordered the killing of the most dangerous terrorist of our time... the guy who ordered an attack on the United States of America? For (just) one day, why not do that? Then tomorrow you can go back to nit picking everything you can think of about Obama. Today, come on and be part of the team, eh?I did, I said thank God for re-election pressure.

I have no doubt political affairs affected his action, and it is good he did not cave in to his cronies and try to put this human piece of feces on trial.
Score one for the Obama

Thank you for now giving me a good reason to no longer put any net links down-- if it is on the net, it has to be true-- YES!
--------------------

Osama is dead, now we can go back to the Trump vs. Obama dog and pony show, unless more deathers post here.

[Bob Riebe]

So were George W Bush, Winston Churchill, Abraham Lincoln, Harry Truman, Richard Nixon, etc.

And I heard they didn't kill just Osama bin Laden, but also three others. And how many did they kill before they even found Osama? They wanted Osama so bad that they didn't care that school children, wedding parties, etc were killed in the process.

Please give me a net link to their deliberate attacks on civilians not connected to a war in progress-- if it is on the net it has to be true..

[veeten]

Osama is dead, now we can go back to the Trump vs. Obama dog and pony show, unless more deathers post here.

Why? It would just be the same as the Bush/Clinton/Perot dog & pony show of '92, and we all know how that turned out...

[donKey jote]

Is this your net link, bob?
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_050211/content/01125108.guest.html

It's all in there, from the "I-I-I" and the glorious Gitmo to the "photo on a Spanish website" and the "kill vs capture" :laugh:

Don't ask me how I knew :laugh: :laugh:

[Zico]

I didn't expect them to find him tbh.. was a surprise for me. I agree with Henners that it wont really change anything, great moral booster for the troops though.

Surprised they haven't released pictures of the body yet, probably still at auction before being 'accidently' leaked tomorow. :/

[Bob Riebe]

'The administration was investigating who within Pakistan provided support to bin Laden to allow him to live, remarkably, in a fortified compound in a town, not tucked away in a cave as often rumored. Critics have long accused elements of Pakistan's security establishment of protecting bin Laden, though Islamabad has always denied it, and did so again.

Bin Laden went down firing at the Navy SEALs who stormed his compound, a U.S. official said. Brennan said one of bin Laden's wives was used as a human shield to try to protect him and was killed, too, as a result. Brennan, speaking of bin Laden, said that revealed " the nature of the individual he was" ...

... Based on statements given by U.S. detainees since the 9/11 attacks, they said, intelligence officials have long known that bin Laden trusted one al-Qaida courier in particular, and they believed he might be living with him in hiding.

Four years ago, the United States learned the man's identity, which officials did not disclose, and then about two years later, they identified areas of Pakistan where he operated. Last August, the man's residence was found, officials said."

Good thing club Gitmo was kept open.
I hope they investigate with armed missle strikes, I do give Pres. Obama credit for not wasting that resource.

[Bob Riebe]

Is this your net link, bob?
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_050211/content/01125108.guest.html

It's all in there, from the "I-I-I" and the glorious Gitmo to the "photo on a Spanish website" and the "kill vs capture" :laugh:

Don't ask me how I knew :laugh: :laugh:
I said I was listening to Limbaugh.
Glad you can read.http://foolstown.com/sm/kngt.gif

[cali]

Personally I wouldn't say I'm "happy" he's dead, more satisfied with the conclusion of the man hunt. I do take your point about his Matyr status, but wouldn't that happen anyway if he was captured, and, almost certainly, sentenced to death?

The head of the monster has been cut off, but the body is still twitching and is deadly dangerous.
I'm afraid that from now on things can get only worse and it's not a time time to celebrate yet. Funny to see people on the streets and celebrate someones death. Pretty ironic to me and it shows how much the western population does not have a glue about what they are really facing. Monsters head has been cut off, but it has made him even more angry

[Rollo]

Pretty ironic to me and it shows how much the western population does not have a glue about what they are really facing. Monsters head has been cut off, but it has made him even more angry

I think that some of us are only too aware if what we're facing.
Do you include the groups responsible for the Madrid railway attacks, the two sets of Bali bombings, the Marriott Hotel bombing in Islamabad as being "inspired" by or having connections to al-Qaeda?

The problem is that the monster's head has been cut off but it would appear that the monster we're dealing with is actually a Hydra. Cut off one head and the beast still has many others.

[BDunnell]

I'm afraid that from now on things can get only worse and it's not a time time to celebrate yet. Funny to see people on the streets and celebrate someones death. Pretty ironic to me and it shows how much the western population does not have a glue about what they are really facing.

I would respectfully suggest to you that perhaps the people on the streets celebrating are not representative of the Western people as a whole.

[harsha]

I don't see why Pakistan has anything to answer for? Does the UK know exactly who is here?

Trust an Indian person to blame Pakistan.....

well, they clearly do. How can the most wanted terrorist in the world stay around 2 KM from a pakistani army base in a town with a population of 80,000 km :?:

if you expect me to believe that he could stay there without government support , i'd find it impossible to do that....

it's not exactly the first terrorists who are being kept hidden by pakistan....

[harsha]

the whole taliban issue could have been so easily avoided had the US not given them arms in the first place.....oh and do continue funding and trustingthe key ally in the war against terror...

[Rollo]

if you expect me to believe that he could stay there without government support , i'd find it impossible to do that....


Let's ask the question differently. How much control over the country does Zardari have? I was under the impression that outside of Islamabad the government's influence wasn't particularly all that stable; one only needs to look at Balochistan and the conflict there.
In fact the Pakistani government has accused India in the past of supporting Baluch rebels with the intent of destabilisation.

If you expect me to believe that the governmet in Islamabad even had a clue that Bin Laden was in Pakistan "i'd find it impossible to do that...."

[harsha]

Let's ask the question differently. How much control over the country does Zardari have? I was under the impression that outside of Islamabad the government's influence wasn't particularly all that stable; one only needs to look at Balochistan and the conflict there.
In fact the Pakistani government has accused India in the past of supporting Baluch rebels with the intent of destabilisation.

If you expect me to believe that the governmet in Islamabad even had a clue that Bin Laden was in Pakistan "i'd find it impossible to do that...."


Nah , most of the pakistan territory with the exception of territory alongside AfPak border is under the control of Zardari...They've really controlled the Pakistani Taliban of late too...Balochistan is only one problem , one which had existed ever since the Ind-Pak Partition. That and the lack of resources allocated to Balochistan have exaggerated matters.

Pakistan has a known history of shielding Terrorists....1)Dawood Ibrahim , wanted for the Mumbai blasts, Safe Haven in pakistan. 2)the planners of the Mumbai attacks 3)the LeT guys who are arrested, released and still go about their business

and needless to say that the Pakistani Government has a habit of pointing fingers at anyone or any country when it wants to , The accusations of India supporting Baluch rebels may or may not be true , but Pakistani sponsored Terrorism has cost India much more lives. Pakistan is probably the one country which is the major irritant in world politics at the moment , They've got a nuke , they train terrorists and the US gives them funds to fight the very terrorists that they train...go figure

[Bob Riebe]

well, they clearly do. How can the most wanted terrorist in the world stay around 2 KM from a pakistani army base in a town with a population of 80,000 km :?:

if you expect me to believe that he could stay there without government support , i'd find it impossible to do that....

it's not exactly the first terrorists who are being kept hidden by pakistan....
I doubt very, very, very much that Pakistan was totally ignorant of what was taking place. A helicopter of that size cannot go where it was un-noticed. If you have watched some news sources a Paki was tweeting about the helicopter hovering overhead, which was one that dispensed Seals.

Pakistan probably has great fears about reaction if they were involved in the execution of bin Laden. This was kept to a true need-to-know level including people on defense committees in the U.S. which the head Repubclican applauded, he was not in the know, as he said had this not been kept to the absolute minimum people knowing it. it would have been leaked out before taking place.
I would bet money that the proper Pakis knew about it, long ago when it was being set-up.

[harsha]

hey, if pakistani's knew where bin laden was hiding , what was stopping them from storming his compound and killing him :?: ...afterall, the military camp is 500m or so away only....It's really unrealistic to assume that the Pakistan Government / Military didn't know where Osama was hiding. Afterall , Osama is probably one of the most famous person whose photo even a 7-8 yr old person would recognize.

It's clearly impossible for a guy to stay in a city , 500m from a army camp , and not be taken in, unless there was grassroots support in the first place.

[harsha]

quoting from here
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/terrorism-unlikely-to-stop-muslims/story-fn7x8me2-1226048821726

"PAKISTAN was not informed of the daring midnight raid on the terror leader's compound – a raid which nearly went wrong in the first seconds after touchdown."

Mr Brennan said the US was in discussions with Pakistani officials about how Bin Laden could have survived in the compound for five years, but he said after the US briefed them on the raid they seemed "surprised" that Bin Laden was living under their noses.

"People are referring to this as 'hiding in plain sight'. Clearly this was something that was considered as a possibility. Pakistan’s a large country. We are working right now at (finding out) how he was able to hold out there for so long and whether or not there was any kind of support system within Pakistan that allowed him to stay there.

"We know that the people in the compound there were working on his behalf and that’s how we ultimately found our way to the compound.

"I think it’s inconceivable that Bin Laden did not have a support system in the country that allowed him to remain there for an extended period of time. I’m not going to speculate on what kind of support he might have had on an official basis, inside Pakistan."

[Bob Riebe]

hey, if pakistani's knew where bin laden was hiding , what was stopping them from storming his compound and killing him :?: ...afterall, the military camp is 500m or so away only....It's really unrealistic to assume that the Pakistan Government / Military didn't know where Osama was hiding. Afterall , Osama is probably one of the most famous person whose photo even a 7-8 yr old person would recognize.

It's clearly impossible for a guy to stay in a city , 500m from a army camp , and not be taken in, unless there was grassroots support in the first place.

"Pakistan probably has great fears about reaction if they were" known to be" involved in the execution of bin Laden."

[airshifter]

Osama Bin Diein

Courtesy of some of my cities most elite.

Good riddance you piece of cowardly trash.

[cali]

I would respectfully suggest to you that perhaps the people on the streets celebrating are not representative of the Western people as a whole.

Yeah, for sure and I completely agree with you. Still it was quite strange to see people on the streets and happy about it, problably because OBL was served to the larger population as the biggest monster of our era (remember Saddam?). Also do not understand the mission in Afghanistan as those people over there will never accept or be happy about western democracy that they have beeing forced to accept at the very moment. I know some of the people who have been serving in Afghanistan and quite frankly, they do not understand why the troops are still there. Iraq was/is all about oil money .... actually .... these missions are all about money or to gain profit and nothing else

[gloomyDAY]

Yeah, for sure and I completely agree with you. Still it was quite strange to see people on the streets and happy about it, problably because OBL was served to the larger population as the biggest monster of our era (remember Saddam?). Also do not understand the mission in Afghanistan as those people over there will never accept or be happy about western democracy that they have beeing forced to accept at the very moment. I know some of the people who have been serving in Afghanistan and quite frankly, they do not understand why the troops are still there. Iraq wasis all about oil money .... actually .... these missions are all about money or to gain profit and nothing elseI agree with you on Iraq, but not on Afghanistan. I always felt that the war on terror started in Afghanistan and was placed on the back-burner in order to stabilise the situation in Iraq. If America decides to leave now there will be nothing but bloodshed, and those terror cells will come right back, so basically taking away all that progress already accomplished.

The twin towers fell, and Al-Qaeda should too.

[cali]

I agree with you on Iraq, but not on Afghanistan. I always felt that the war on terror started in Afghanistan and was placed on the back-burner in order to stabilise the situation in Iraq. If America decides to leave now there will be nothing but bloodshed, and those terror cells will come right back, so basically taking away all that progress already accomplished.

The twin towers fell, and Al-Qaeda should too.

Dunno about terror cells, but bloodsheding is still going on there every day ... If you think that allied forces have achieved somekind of order, then think again :)

[gadjo_dilo]

Please give me a net link to their deliberate attacks on civilians not connected to a war in progress-- if it is on the net it has to be true..


"The United States invasion of Panama was launched on December 20, 1989. Losses on the U.S. side were 24 troops, plus 3 civilian casualties. Statistics of the number of Panamanian civilian deaths remain disputed; the New York Times and Newsweek magazine reported between 202 and 220.[citation needed] The conflict also caused some considerable internal displacement, with 20,000 to 30,000 having been rendered homeless.[citation needed]

On December 29, the General Assembly of the United Nations voted 75–20 with 40 abstentions to condemn the invasion as a flagrant violation of international law.[19][20] According to a CBS poll, 92% of Panamanian adults supported the U.S. incursion, and 76% wished that U.S. forces had invaded in October during the coup.[21] However, others dispute this finding, claiming that the Panamanian surveys were completed in wealthy, English-speaking neighborhoods in Panama City, among Panamanians most likely to support US actions"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Noriega

[Mark]

They've been showing celebrating Americans on TV today. That reminded me of the celebrating Palestinians after the 9/11 attacks. Both equally petty and distasteful IMO. Death of human beings isn't a cause for celebration (nor is death of animals).

I did think that initially, but then I thought again. I think the celebrations are more akin to the likes of which we saw after the end of WW2 (or perhaps other victorious wars?) in that people are celebrating the defeat of the enemy, not just the death of the individual. However such celebrations are of course, premature.

[Malbec]

I think that some of us are only too aware if what we're facing.
Do you include the groups responsible for the Madrid railway attacks, the two sets of Bali bombings, the Marriott Hotel bombing in Islamabad as being "inspired" by or having connections to al-Qaeda?

The problem is that the monster's head has been cut off but it would appear that the monster we're dealing with is actually a Hydra. Cut off one head and the beast still has many others.

While the threat remains I do think they are a lot weaker though not because OBL has been killed. AQ just aren't as popular as they once were and aren't drawing the same kind of money they used to.

Like many revolutionary ideals their philosophies were so much more attractive to Muslims when they remained abstract. Faced with the reality of AQ tactics including killing as many innocent (and mainly Muslim) bystanders as possible as well as the utter failure of AQ to provide any positive model for development in places they did rule even for a short while, the Muslim world just turned their backs on them. Without that base of support they were doomed.

I'm sure they'll remain an irritant for a long while but I don't think they'll ever be the threat we thought they were.

[DexDexter]

I'm afraid that from now on things can get only worse and it's not a time time to celebrate yet. Funny to see people on the streets and celebrate someones death. Pretty ironic to me and it shows how much the western population does not have a glue about what they are really facing. Monsters head has been cut off, but it has made him even more angry

That someone happens to be responsible for the death on thousands of people. People seem to have forgotten that he was, indirectly at least, behind an attack where ordinary people like me and you were flown into skyscrapers for no real reason whatsoever. Fight against terrorism or crime that matter will never end but that is not a reason to stop fighting. They cheered because they thought justice was done. Having said that, I wouldn't celebrate anyone's death but I can sort of understand why they did it.

To me it seems that Americans can never do anything right. Whatever they do, they are always criticised.

Edit: The best thing about this whole matter is the fact that Obama might be re-elected because of this.

[Malbec]

Nah , most of the pakistan territory with the exception of territory alongside AfPak border is under the control of Zardari...They've really controlled the Pakistani Taliban of late too...Balochistan is only one problem , one which had existed ever since the Ind-Pak Partition. That and the lack of resources allocated to Balochistan have exaggerated matters.

Pakistan has a known history of shielding Terrorists....1)Dawood Ibrahim , wanted for the Mumbai blasts, Safe Haven in pakistan. 2)the planners of the Mumbai attacks 3)the LeT guys who are arrested, released and still go about their business

and needless to say that the Pakistani Government has a habit of pointing fingers at anyone or any country when it wants to , The accusations of India supporting Baluch rebels may or may not be true , but Pakistani sponsored Terrorism has cost India much more lives. Pakistan is probably the one country which is the major irritant in world politics at the moment , They've got a nuke , they train terrorists and the US gives them funds to fight the very terrorists that they train...go figure

While I don't think Pakistan is responsible for half of what India claims it is (the scale of Indian claims, if true would make the ISI easily the most capable intelligence service in the world bar none and the Indians incompetent beyond belief) they certainly are playing a dangerous game.

I don't know whether Pakistan actually knew about OBL's location though I agree with you about LeT etc etc. There are strong reasons why Pakistan wouldn't have wanted him on their soil at all being a hot potato, and he wouldn't have been as useful as the tribes in the NW territories for enforcing control in Afghanistan afgter a US withdrawal.

There are elements within the Pakistani military and intelligence that are pro-Western too, I don't think OBL would have risked his future security on which faction of the military gained control at any one time in case they sold him out to the US as part of a power struggle.

I'm sure we'll find out more in coming days.

[cali]

That someone happens to be responsible for the death on thousands of people. People seem to have forgotten that he was, indirectly at least, behind an attack where ordinary people like me and you were flown into skyscrapers for no real reason whatsoever. Fight against terrorism or crime that matter will never end but that is not a reason to stop fighting. They cheered because they thought justice was done. Having said that, I wouldn't celebrate anyone's death but I can sort of understand why they did it.

To me it seems that Americans can never do anything right. Whatever they do, they are always criticised.

Let's go back back a bit and look into history books and dig deeper into reasons of these attacks ;) They surely did not come out of nothing. There's always a reason for a consequence and this circle now is coming around again. I wish we could get along without all this hate and bloodshed which is generated by greed, racism, religion etc. No reason to be happy about current situation, eventhough someone with responsible for many lives has been eliminated

[harsha]

point being Dylan that Pakistan seems to not view attacks on India as terrorist activities. You can only play the victim card so long.

US Supported Pakistan over India cause in the 70's , India was increasingly close to the Soviets without being an ally. But then i suppose that America, despite being the savior of democracy chose to support a dictatorship rather than a democracy. US is a lot to blame for the state that Pakistan is in nowadays , They fund the Taliban against the Soviets.

India as such has heard just about enough of the double talk from Pakistan , Them continually contradicting themselves don't give a good vibe that they wanna smoke the peace pipe....IIRC , they were ministers in the Pakistani governments claiming the Indians to be responsible for the floods in Pakistan which occured a couple of years back.

[DexDexter]

Let's go back back a bit and look into history books and dig deeper into reasons of these attacks ;) They surely did not come out of nothing. There's always a reason for a consequence and this circle now is coming around again. I wish we could get along without all this hate and bloodshed which is generated by greed, racism, religion etc. No reason to be happy about current situation, eventhough someone with responsible for many lives has been eliminated

They did to people who were sitting in the planes, they had absolutely nothing to do with anything. I know there are always reasons behind everything but I was just talking about people being happy because they felt they got justice. That is understandable.

[Malbec]

point being Dylan that Pakistan seems to not view attacks on India as terrorist activities. You can only play the victim card so long.

The saddest thing about Pakistan is that it views those attacks on India as some kind of affirmation that the two countries are equals of some sort in a perverse way. The Pakistani military/intelligence doesn't seem capable of realising that India is becoming an important member of the international community now because of its rapid economic development and that in the future terrorist attacks like on Mumbai will be treated not as a sub-continent problem but an international one. Not only that but they need to realise that devoting your country merely to fighting another is useless, real power comes from economic development.

Meanwhile the Pakistani politicians are more interested in seeing how they can use government as an extension of their own bank accounts.

I pity the US and UK governments that have to deal with Pakistan as an equal because some cooperation in the NW territories is better than none.

[Daniel]

point being Dylan that Pakistan seems to not view attacks on India as terrorist activities. You can only play the victim card so long.

US Supported Pakistan over India cause in the 70's , India was increasingly close to the Soviets without being an ally. But then i suppose that America, despite being the savior of democracy chose to support a dictatorship rather than a democracy. US is a lot to blame for the state that Pakistan is in nowadays , They fund the Taliban against the Soviets.

India as such has heard just about enough of the double talk from Pakistan , Them continually contradicting themselves don't give a good vibe that they wanna smoke the peace pipe....IIRC , they were ministers in the Pakistani governments claiming the Indians to be responsible for the floods in Pakistan which occured a couple of years back.

That's an incredibly biased and shortsighted view of things. Should the US have not funded the Taliban and allowed Afghanistan to fall? Countries like China and Russia are fine to deal with at a distance when they're selling you arms and so on, but if they're just next door it's not such a good thing......

I think as with the issues that the UK and US have had with Islamic extremists you've got to separate the people of Pakistan from the actions of a few unless there is concrete proof that the govt is behind any attacks or else you run the risk of radicalising people as the war on terror did with many mainstream muslims after Afghanistan and Iraq were invaded.

[Garry Walker]

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201105/r760252_6382385.jpg

How often do we think that Fox have made "mistakes" with their captions over the past 18 odd hours? I found six whilst watching telly yesterday.Didnt BBC make the same mistake?


They've been showing celebrating Americans on TV today. That reminded me of the celebrating Palestinians after the 9/11 attacks. Both equally petty and distasteful IMO. Death of human beings isn't a cause for celebration (nor is death of animals).Death of scum like Osama is great news, I will open a champagne bottle today evening to celebrate it with friends. The only sad things about his death is that I didnt get the opportunity to take a piss on his corpse and that he wasnt subjected to a 6 month continuous rape by homosexual rapists, which he so richly would have deserved.
But dont worry Eki, I am sure you will find a new hero soon.


So were George W Bush, Winston Churchill, Abraham Lincoln, Harry Truman, Richard Nixon, etc.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0


I would respectfully suggest to you that perhaps the people on the streets celebrating are not representative of the Western people as a whole.Yeah, it is a shame so few were celebrating the death of such scum.


That someone happens to be responsible for the death on thousands of people. People seem to have forgotten that he was, indirectly at least, behind an attack where ordinary people like me and you were flown into skyscrapers for no real reason whatsoever. Fight against terrorism or crime that matter will never end but that is not a reason to stop fighting. They cheered because they thought justice was done. Having said that, I wouldn't celebrate anyone's death but I can sort of understand why they did it. Many of these people had their loved ones die a horrendous death due to this scum, I would have celebrated too.
[/QUOTE]
To me it seems that Americans can never do anything right. Whatever they do, they are always criticised.[/QUOTE]There is a bunch of people who attack USA for whatever they do, forgetting that without USA the world would be a much poorer and worse place.



Edit: The best thing about this whole matter is the fact that Obama might be re-elected because of this.
That is the worst thing about it

[markabilly]

Good riddance to Osama. Killed while trying to be hiding behind his wife, wanting to make a like a rabbit.

Not surprizing, as this type of behavior has often been seen in "leaders" who have no problem sending and encouraging others to go get killed, but run like dogs at the first sign of any danger to themselves

It is funny how the Demes lashed out at Bush for the interrogations at Gitmo, yet those waterboardings are exactly what lead to his killing. Even funnier is how Demes have tried to blame Bush for 911 and all the rest, and now want to give Obama credit for killing Osama.

Bush did not deserve blame nor credit; similarly, nor does Obama deserve credit, but given that obama knew this place was hiding him since last august, he might have deserved blame if he waited so long, that Osama left and ran off somewhere else..

all this crap about a muslim burial and such. They should have fed his body to the dogs and burned the bones. People deserve the same murdeous painful death that they have caused to others, an eye for an eye. But alas, just like modern brits, we have lost our backbone when it comes to such things.

[harsha]

That's an incredibly biased and shortsighted view of things. Should the US have not funded the Taliban and allowed Afghanistan to fall? Countries like China and Russia are fine to deal with at a distance when they're selling you arms and so on, but if they're just next door it's not such a good thing......

I think as with the issues that the UK and US have had with Islamic extremists you've got to separate the people of Pakistan from the actions of a few unless there is concrete proof that the govt is behind any attacks or else you run the risk of radicalising people as the war on terror did with many mainstream muslims after Afghanistan and Iraq were invaded.

agree with your second point. Sorry if i come across as a biased guy though , Pakistan has given me little reason to believe that they are doing anything significant in the world apart from being a nuisance of the highest order.

Even if you look at the Korea conflict or the Vietnam conflict , Doesn't make either side right. Afghan had a border with Soviet Republic and probably USSR had a claim to Afghanistan , the point being that US created a monster by funding the Taliban which came back right @ them biting them where the sun don't shine. I'm not condoning the actions of USSR in Afghanistan but where the US policy really gets me is that they were prepared to fund millions to a military dictatorship (Pakistan) in supplying them weapons against a Democratic country. Where has all the talk of US being a shining light of democracy gone :?:

[ArrowsFA1]

It is funny how the Demes lashed out at Bush for the interrogations at Gitmo, yet those waterboardings are exactly what lead to his killing. Even funnier is how Demes have tried to blame Bush for 911 and all the rest, and now want to give Obama credit for killing Osama.
It's not funny. It's politics.

[ShiftingGears]

Death of scum like Osama is great news, I will open a champagne bottle today evening to celebrate it with friends. The only sad things about his death is that I didnt get the opportunity to take a piss on his corpse and that he wasnt subjected to a 6 month continuous rape by homosexual rapists, which he so richly would have deserved.

LOL

[Dave B]

I find it rather distateful that people are celebrating the death of Bin Laden, it would have been far preferable if he'd been put on trial. That said I won't exactly lose any sleep that he's dead, but I do wonder at the sanity of people who believe the world is somehow a magical safe place where the biggest risk to our safety is tripping over a rainbow and stabbing yourself on a unicorn's horn.

Talking of trial, I hope that now the USA has disposed of its supposed main threat it will close Guantanamo Bay and either charge or release the inmates. They have no right to call themselves a civilsed society while they operate an illegal torture facility, if any other country acted in such a way it would be described as a War Crime. The failure to follow through with this election promise is, for me as a foreigner, the biggest single disappointment of the Obama administration.

[Retro Formula 1]

I don't need to see OBL put on trial Dave but agree with the rest of your post.

As for Osama, I'm glad they finally tracked him down and eliminated him. No great feelings of joy or celebration but a long sigh of relief that this mass murdered is no more. There is a lot more to do before the threat of terrorism is resolved but it's a move in the right direction. Now it's time to build on this foundation, address the illegal Guantanamo prison and rethink foreign policy.

[Zico]

all this crap about a muslim burial and such. They should have fed his body to the dogs and burned the bones. People deserve the same murdeous painful death that they have caused to others, an eye for an eye. But alas, just like modern brits, we have lost our backbone when it comes to such things.

Totally dissagree, I guess you would probably want to burn a few Korans while you were at it? I find your views above not only lacking in foresight but as uncivilized and barbaric as their own sharia law can be. How could it achieve anything positive?. Its nothing to do with losing your backbone, its the smarter, civilized and longer sighted way of dealing with the bigger picture.
I think they did the correct thing. No onshore burial place to allow for 'pilgrimages' or a shrine and respect paid in part at least, to muslim tradition and beliefs.. to hopefully begin to put an end to a potentially perpetual cycle of evil and hate.

[ShiftingGears]

it would have been far preferable if he'd been put on trial.

Of course, but his death is much more preferable to him being alive and on the run. We can only hope with the hard drives found at his compound that other senior Al Qaeda members can be captured and put on trial.

[schmenke]

As has been mentioned, the “head” of Al-Qaeda has been eliminated, but the terrorist organisation will continue to thrive as long as it has financial support.
Cut off the funding and Al-Qaeda will abolish in a matter of months.
But that won’t happen because we all know who is funding them. Like Arrows said, it’s all politics...

[cali]

I find it rather distateful that people are celebrating the death of Bin Laden, it would have been far preferable if he'd been put on trial. That said I won't exactly lose any sleep that he's dead, but I do wonder at the sanity of people who believe the world is somehow a magical safe place where the biggest risk to our safety is tripping over a rainbow and stabbing yourself on a unicorn's horn.

Talking of trial, I hope that now the USA has disposed of its supposed main threat it will close Guantanamo Bay and either charge or release the inmates. They have no right to call themselves a civilsed society while they operate an illegal torture facility, if any other country acted in such a way it would be described as a War Crime. The failure to follow through with this election promise is, for me as a foreigner, the biggest single disappointment of the Obama administration.
100% agreed.

[555-04Q2]

How do we know that he is actually dead? Has a picture of his body been confirmed?

[Bagwan]

Where's Markabilly's Koolaid pitcher ?
Just believe all they say and everything will be just fine .

Nice they waited for the Royal wedding to be over and done with .
They might have waited until our election was over , though . Just as I predicted , the crooks got back in , and with a majority this time .

Now , the US will really have an ally .
I guess that was the plan all along .
It looks like my nephew will be going overseas after all .

[BleAivano]

I disagree. The guy was repsonsible for a lot of deaths. his death is a good thing

But so is George W Bush, infact i'd say that GWB has much more lives on his concious then OBL.
Almost 6000 Americans have been killed in the two wars started by GWB.
Add to that the civilian casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan and GWB is hardly an "innocent man".
Which is 100'000+ just in Iraq and 10'000+ in Afghanistan.

4400 of them have died in Iraq. and 1500 have been killed in Afghanistan. source= US department of Defence.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/fallen/
http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personnel/CASUALTY/oif-deaths-total.pdf
http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personnel/CASUALTY/oefdeaths.pdf
http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personnel/CASUALTY/castop.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan_war

so if OBL is a cruel monster what does that make GWB?

[BleAivano]

How do we know that he is actually dead? Has a picture of his body been confirmed?

the only evidence we have is that the USA officials says he's dead.

[Sonic]

^^^^ I know you are playing devils advocate but are you really comparing Bin Laden with George W Bush?

[Roamy]

Didnt BBC make the same mistake?

Death of scum like Osama is great news, I will open a champagne bottle today evening to celebrate it with friends. The only sad things about his death is that I didnt get the opportunity to take a piss on his corpse and that he wasnt subjected to a 6 month continuous rape by homosexual rapists, which he so richly would have deserved.
But dont worry Eki, I am sure you will find a new hero soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

Yeah, it is a shame so few were celebrating the death of such scum.

Many of these people had their loved ones die a horrendous death due to this scum, I would have celebrated too.

To me it seems that Americans can never do anything right. Whatever they do, they are always criticised.[/QUOTE]There is a bunch of people who attack USA for whatever they do, forgetting that without USA the world would be a much poorer and worse place.


That is the worst thing about it[/QUOTE]

This is a great post and I agree with it 100% - I find it quite interesting that the anti- American sentiment on this forum by and large condemns us for killing this POS. There will always be the argument about our Global influence and frankly I am good with less intervention. You guys will have no appreciation until you are attacked like we were. Yes I know all you TIREs are going to say we wouldn't have if we stayed at home. Maybe so but the long and short of it is:
1. Don't Attack this country
2. Keep on and something is going to end up "glowing" for a long time.

I have seen a post condemning Guantanamo which is so stupid of course unless you support the no prisoners stance. I think Guantanamo is great for terrorists.

Markabilly's post was very good also - Dave B and a few others are totally disgusting

[Daniel]

This is a great post and I agree with it 100% - I find it quite interesting that the anti- American sentiment on this forum by and large condemns us for killing this POS. There will always be the argument about our Global influence and frankly I am good with less intervention. You guys will have no appreciation until you are attacked like we were. Yes I know all you TIREs are going to say we wouldn't have if we stayed at home. Maybe so but the long and short of it is:
1. Don't Attack this country
2. Keep on and something is going to end up "glowing" for a long time.

I have seen a post condemning Guantanamo which is so stupid of course unless you support the no prisoners stance. I think Guantanamo is great for terrorists.

Markabilly's post was very good also - Dave B and a few others are totally disgusting

Surely Roamy, you must agree that fanning the flames is never a good thing. I applaud the US for doing the right thing with Osama's body and burying it within 24 hours of death. If they hadn't this would have given more fuel to the terrorists and that of course is a bad thing.

I think you'll find that most people DON'T condemn the USA for killing Ozzy, most feel that this is OK, or that perhaps it would have been better if it went to trial. Personally I don't see the point in a trial when the guy has publicly admitted what he ordered. Dead or alive, all that matters is that he now can't give orders. To have done the things to his body that garry was suggesting would merely give some moron the fuel he needs to launch another attack on the US or its allies and that would be the ultimate way of giving Ozzy what he wanted.

I think it will be impossible to say whether the war on terrorism has been a success or was even necessary (we'd require a parallel universe to see what life would have been like without it). The natural course that things have taken seems to be that these radical muslims started killing their own less radical people and that was always going to cause the power base of factions like Al Qaeda to shrink. The the recent revolutions seem intent on securing democracy rather than bringing about oppressive regimes says that the vast majority of muslims simply want a prosperous life for themselves with a good dose of freedom and couldn't give a flying **** about other countries and just want their own house in order.

[janvanvurpa]

"When thy enemy shall fall, be not glad, and in his ruin let not thy heart rejoice."--Proverbs. 24:17

[Garry Walker]

I find it rather distateful that people are celebrating the death of Bin Laden, Oh do grow a backbone.



it would have been far preferable if he'd been put on trial. Why? How would that have improved things at all? You think he would have been less of a martyr for jihadists then? Or that it is somehow unjust to shoot someone like him without a trial (during the trial we should have of course provided to him the best facilities to make sure his human rights are not breached)?



That said I won't exactly lose any sleep that he's dead, but I do wonder at the sanity of people who believe the world is somehow a magical safe place where the biggest risk to our safety is tripping over a rainbow and stabbing yourself on a unicorn's horn.Who here has stated this? Find quotes please. What people have said that justice has taken place and a small step towards making the world a better place has been made. I have yet to see anyone say that there is no threat from terrorism anymore.


But so is George W Bush, infact i'd say that GWB has much more lives on his concious then OBL.
Almost 6000 Americans have been killed in the two wars started by GWB.
Add to that the civilian casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan and GWB is hardly an "innocent man".
Which is 100'000+ just in Iraq and 10'000+ in Afghanistan.

4400 of them have died in Iraq. and 1500 have been killed in Afghanistan. source= US department of Defence.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/fallen/
http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personnel/CASUALTY/oif-deaths-total.pdf
http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personnel/CASUALTY/oefdeaths.pdf
http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personnel/CASUALTY/castop.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan_war

so if OBL is a cruel monster what does that make GWB?
I dont know what that makes of GWB, but I know that for you to post such stuff can only mean that you are one of the biggest candidates for the heavyweight imbecile championship of the world. In fact, having again read your shi... post, congrats on winning the title.




This is a great post and I agree with it 100% - I find it quite interesting that the anti- American sentiment on this forum by and large condemns us for killing this POS. There will always be the argument about our Global influence and frankly I am good with less intervention. You guys will have no appreciation until you are attacked like we were. Yes I know all you TIREs are going to say we wouldn't have if we stayed at home. Maybe so but the long and short of it is:
1. Don't Attack this country
2. Keep on and something is going to end up "glowing" for a long time.
America is not perfect and has made mistakes, but that comes with the territory of being the most powerful country in the world. Would the world be better off if the biggest super power in the world was Russia/Soviet Union or China?

[Dave B]

I find the fact that my post has "disgusted" fousto and upset Garry rather pleasing. :)

[janvanvurpa]

what's the difference?

http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/186155/3368460d.jpg

[Garry Walker]

I find the fact that my post has "disgusted" fousto and upset Garry rather pleasing. :)

:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Dont worry, you didnt. It takes a bit more than a comment from some internet sissy for me to get upset.

[Garry Walker]

what's the difference?

http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/186155/3368460d.jpg

Oh great, another idiot.

[Eki]

You guys will have no appreciation until you are attacked like we were.

According to wikileaks, Al Qaeda has threatened to detonate a nuclear bomb in Europe if Osama is killed. Fellow Europeans, let's all say "THANK YOU, AMERICA".

I guess you Americans have no chance to understand that they will attack you (and thanks to you, now maybe also us) as long as you give them excuses to attack.

[Bob Riebe]

Iraq was/is all about oil money .... actually .... these missions are all about money or to gain profit and nothing elseThat is cheap talk. In Kuwait that was a known fact, but give some sort of proof for profit in Afghanistan or oil in Iraq.
It is actually rather obtuse rhetoric at best without proof.

Who in the U.S. or Europe has made this big oil profit and just who made big money in Afghanistan.

If you are saying all politics is driven by money, including relief efforts, you might have straw to lean on, but let's see some proof to your specific claim.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

it would have been far preferable if he'd been put on trial. .

Why?

It would be impossible to give him a trial that wasn't biased, and what would be the point anyway? There wasn't a more guilty man on the planet.

[Dave B]

Why?

Because by killing him we risk sinking to his level. We're better than that, supposedly.


It would be impossible to give him a trial that wasn't biased, and what would be the point anyway? There wasn't a more guilty man on the planet.
I fail to see how a trial would be biased, as you say the evidence is pretty damning. He should have spent his days rotting in a cell, now he's a martyr. At least they had the sense to bury him at sea.

Still, what's done is done. It just repulses me that the country which acts as the world's policeman is so hypocritical that it runs illegal torture facilities and breaches international law on prisoner detention. And, as I aluded to earlier, I'm disappointed that a president who campaigned on a platform of "change" has gone against a clear election pledge, although as a UK resident I'm well used to that!

[Bob Riebe]

"The United States invasion of Panama was launched on December 20, 1989. Losses on the U.S. side were 24 troops, plus 3 civilian casualties. Statistics of the number of Panamanian civilian deaths remain disputed; the New York Times and Newsweek magazine reported between 202 and 220.[citation needed] The conflict also caused some considerable internal displacement, with 20,000 to 30,000 having been rendered homeless.[citation needed]

On December 29, the General Assembly of the United Nations voted 75–20 with 40 abstentions to condemn the invasion as a flagrant violation of international law.[19][20] According to a CBS poll, 92% of Panamanian adults supported the U.S. incursion, and 76% wished that U.S. forces had invaded in October during the coup.[21] However, others dispute this finding, claiming that the Panamanian surveys were completed in wealthy, English-speaking neighborhoods in Panama City, among Panamanians most likely to support US actions"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Noriega
Quote Originally Posted by Bob Riebe View Post
Please give me a net link to their deliberate attacks on civilians not connected to a war in progress-- if it is on the net it has to be true..

So you are saying they attacked with the sole purpose to kill those civilians supposedly killed?

] According to a CBS poll, 92% of Panamanian adults supported the U.S. incursion, and 76% wished that U.S. forces had invaded in October during the coup.

Try again you made your claim look silly.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

You guys will have no appreciation until you are attacked like we were.

Oh please. :rolleyes:

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_04/77bomb3008_468x325.jpg

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/SRR/Volume12/photoessay/MadridBombing.jpg

http://www.zgeek.com/forum/gallery/files/1/0/8/bombing.jpg

[Bob Riebe]

I find it rather distateful that people are celebrating the death of Bin Laden, it would have been far preferable if he'd been put on trial. That said I won't exactly lose any sleep that he's dead, but I do wonder at the sanity of people who believe the world is somehow a magical safe place where the biggest risk to our safety is tripping over a rainbow and stabbing yourself on a unicorn's horn.

Talking of trial, I hope that now the USA has disposed of its supposed main threat it will close Guantanamo Bay and either charge or release the inmates. They have no right to call themselves a civilsed society while they operate an illegal torture facility, if any other country acted in such a way it would be described as a War Crime. The failure to follow through with this election promise is, for me as a foreigner, the biggest single disappointment of the Obama administration.
Are you actually saying, you are naive enough to think that Osama is the only, much less the real, threat out there?

Good grief, Osama has been a bench player for a long time, it is ONLY good that Pres. Obama had the balls to show that if, for any reason. the U.S. Gov. truly wants you dead, you are like a girdled tree, you are dead, you just do not know it.
One down, time to clean the weapons before the next search and destroy mission.

[Bob Riebe]

Of course, but his death is much more preferable to him being alive and on the run. We can only hope with the hard drives found at his compound that other senior Al Qaeda members can be captured and put on trial.

Shoot the *******s dead and save the circus atmosphere and a lot of money.
Eric Holder made an ass out himself, Obama and the U.S. by putting a terrorist on trial, I think, hope, Pres. Obama learned his lesson. Sometimes learning the hard-way is the best way.

[Bob Riebe]

According to wikileaks, Al Qaeda has threatened to detonate a nuclear bomb in Europe if Osama is killed.
SO?

[donKey jote]

Sidenote...


Oh please. :rolleyes:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/SRR/Volume12/photoessay/MadridBombing.jpg


if you listen to the PP (Spanish Tories) conspiracy theorists in Spain, the latest being the President of the Madrid autonomous region only yesterday, that wasn't Al Qaeda as they according to her never officially acknowledged it... hence it was ETA, hence Aznar -the hero of the Azores- didn't lie, hence Zapatero stole the elections 7 years ago ! :dozey:

[Daniel]

SO?

That would be a bad thing.

[schmenke]

...
Who in the U.S. ... has made this big oil profit ....

Oh dear... :erm:

[Brown, Jon Brow]

That would be a bad thing.

I don't think Bob is that naive! :p

I think he is trying to point out that Al Qaeda say they will do a lot of things, whether they are capable or not.

[Bob Riebe]

Oh dear... :erm:

Tell me which U.S. oil company has made money off of Iraq, come on, you can do it.

If you cannot-- oh dear http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/smilies/erm.gif

[Bob Riebe]

I wonder how efficient wiki-leaks is right now, it would be interesting to see if this is true or not, but other web sources give Panetta a lot of credit.
Now if Panetta ran for president, he could be a night-mare for Republicans.

Q: You stated that President Obama was “overruled” by military/intelligence officials regarding the decision to send in military specialists into the Osama Bin Laden compound. Was that accurate?

A: I was told – in these exact terms, “we overruled him.” (Obama) I have since followed up and received further details on exactly what that meant, as well as the specifics of how Leon Panetta worked around the president’s “persistent hesitation to act.” There appears NOT to have been an outright overruling of any specific position by President Obama, simply because there was no specific position from the president to do so. President Obama was, in this case, as in all others, working as an absentee president.
Read more in Issues

I was correct in stating there had been a push to invade the compound for several weeks if not months, primarily led by Leon Panetta, Hillary Clinton, Robert Gates, David Petraeus, and Jim Clapper. The primary opposition to this plan originated from Valerie Jarrett, and it was her opposition that was enough to create uncertainty within President Obama. Obama would meet with various components of the pro-invasion faction, almost always with Jarrett present, and then often fail to indicate his position. This situation continued for some time, though the division between Jarrett/Obama and the rest intensified more recently, most notably from Hillary Clinton. She was livid over the president’s failure to act, and her office began a campaign of anonymous leaks to the media indicating such. As for Jarrett, her concern rested on two primary fronts. One, that the military action could fail and harm the president’s already weakened standing with both the American public and the world. Second, that the attack would be viewed as an act of aggression against Muslims, and further destabilize conditions in the Middle East.

Read more: http://socyberty.com/issues/white-house-insider-obama-hesitated-panetta-issued-order-to-kill-osama-bin-laden/#ixzz1LJSAQgdy

[Daniel]

If true I think it's just the nasty truth of how re-election always impacts upon what governments do. Early in their terms they're happy to do thinks that are necessary and perhaps unpopular, but not as keen to do so later on in their terms.

[janvanvurpa]

Oh great, another idiot.

You, then, tell us what the difference is, take your time, explain.

[janvanvurpa]

Quote Originally Posted by Bob Riebe View Post
Please give me a net link to their deliberate attacks on civilians not connected to a war in progress-- if it is on the net it has to be true..

So you are saying they attacked with the sole purpose to kill those civilians supposedly killed?

] According to a CBS poll, 92% of Panamanian adults supported the U.S. incursion, and 76% wished that U.S. forces had invaded in October during the coup.

Try again you made your claim look silly.

You are too bright there are you Bob?
The invasion and indiscriminate use of artillery and air strikes on densely populated parts of Cristobal and Colon was to arrest one man on US drug charges..
Tell us Bobby-boy, when was a country invaded and thousands of civilians killed and wounded to arrest one person---in another country--on suspicion of no ativities done by the baddie HERE, but in another country?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

You, then, tell us what the difference is, take your time, explain.

Some were celebrating the murder of innocent civilians, the others responding to the death of the most wanted man in the western world.

(why am i supporting the American right-wing here? :s )

[anthonyvop]

You are too bright there are you Bob?
The invasion and indiscriminate use of artillery and air strikes on densely populated parts of Cristobal and Colon was to arrest one man on US drug charges..
Tell us Bobby-boy, when was a country invaded and thousands of civilians killed and wounded to arrest one person---in another country--on suspicion of no ativities done by the baddie HERE, but in another country?

Were you there?

I was.

Shut up!!!

[Daniel]

Get a grip people.

TIREs might helpt with that :)

[Eki]

Because by killing him we risk sinking to his level. We're better than that, supposedly.


True. I read that they killed the woman Osama was hiding behind and wounded his wife, and Osama didn't even fire a shot. Maybe he wasn't even armed.

[Eki]

I don't think Bob is that naive! :p

I do. Americans don't give a damn about Europe.

[Bob Riebe]

True. I read that they killed the woman Osama was hiding behind and wounded his wife, and Osama didn't even fire a shot. Maybe he wasn't even armed.So what?
Maybe they should have sprayed him with bacon fat- then he might of ended up like the Wicked Witch of the West-- "I'm melting-mellllting-oooooohh...."

[DexDexter]

I really don't understand how people find it strange that Americans openly celebrate the death of a person who was considered their archenemy. People are like that, it's not good but that's the human race. If you look at different nations and the events they celebrate, you soon find that many of those are at least indirectly related to killing.

I mean we Finns, for example, celebrate our independence day on December 6th and honour our veterans who helped us to maintain our independence in the wars against Russia. And what did they do? Killed about 350 000 Russian soldiers.

[Eki]

So what?
Maybe they should have sprayed him with bacon fat- then he might of ended up like the Wicked Witch of the West-- "I'm melting-mellllting-oooooohh...."

Or they could have arrested him alive.

[Dave B]

True. I read that they killed the woman Osama was hiding behind and wounded his wife, and Osama didn't even fire a shot. Maybe he wasn't even armed.

True dat. From the White House briefing:



Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden was not armed when U.S. special forces stormed his compound in Pakistan but he did resist before he was shot, White House spokesman Jay Carney said on Tuesday.

Carney said bin Laden's wife "rushed the U.S. assaulter" and was shot in the leg but not killed, contrary to what a White House official said on Monday.

Carney declined to offer further details on bin Laden's behavior during the raid. Resistance did not require a firearm, he said.



Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/may/03/osama-bin-laden-death-aftermath

[Eki]

I really don't understand how people find it strange that Americans openly celebrate the death of a person who was considered their archenemy. People are like that, it's not good but that's the human race. If you look at different nations and the events they celebrate, you soon find that many of those are at least indirectly related to killing.

I mean we Finns, for example, celebrate our independence day on December 6th and honour our veterans who helped us to maintain our independence in the wars against Russia. And what did they do? Killed about 350 000 Russian soldiers.
Well, our Independence day celebrations look like this:

http://img.mtv3.fi/mn_kuvat/mtv3/matkailu/uutiset/kotimaa/597985.jpg
http://pohjois-karjalansotaorvot.fi/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/Itsen%C3%A4isyysp%C3%A4iv%C3%A4-2010-031.jpg
http://suomenkuvalehti.fi/s/mediagallery/2010/12/2/313349/wj021052v.jpg

not like this:

http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/186155/3368460d.jpg

[Bob Riebe]

Well, our Independence day celebrations look like this:

http://img.mtv3.fi/mn_kuvat/mtv3/matkailu/uutiset/kotimaa/597985.jpg
http://pohjois-karjalansotaorvot.fi/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/Itsen%C3%A4isyysp%C3%A4iv%C3%A4-2010-031.jpg

We commemorate our fallen brothers every Memorial Day, in a similar manner.
What is your point troll boy?

[Bob Riebe]

Or they could have arrested him alive.
What for, that would have been a rather moronic move.

[chuck34]

So people seriously don't understand the difference between celebrating the deaths of innocent individuals, and bringing an evil man to justice for the MURDER of 3,000 or so innocent civilians?

Well I'm glad I put myself of a bit of a break from here, and if that really is the viewpoint of people here then perhaps I'm right to stay away. There's just no way to have a logical discussions with people that do not understand the difference in the two celebrations being discussed.

[Eki]

Furthermore, we don't celebrate the 350,000 killed Soviets on our Independence Day, we commemorate the 80,000 killed Finns and celebrate the rest who managed to stay alive. There's a difference.

[Malbec]

Before too much criticism is heaped upon Obama for hesitating to attack the compound on incomplete evidence let us also not forget that he took the decision not to simply wipe the compound off the face of the earth with an airstrike but to send in troops to get evidence of his capture/death to remove doubt. I'm sure that decision will be criticised too but it would not have been an easy one.

As for criticism of American celebrations, OBL in the public eye had long stopped being a person and had become a symbol both to the West and to his followers for different reasons. Americans celebrating his killing were celebrating the death of what he stood for, just as his followers mourn for the same reason. I see little difference between the American celebrations a few days ago and those say at the end of WW2 celebrating the death of Fascism though I do not share their optimism that this is the end of AQ and its philosophy.

Those who criticise the behaviour of those celebrating Americans should be equally critical of OBL's actions that put him in a position where his death would be celebrated.

I hear that New Yorkers have been in a more reflective mood as they visit ground zero to contemplate all the events of the past decade. At least they have some sort of closure now.

[driveace]

Lets get back to the thread guys,instead of bitching at each other!+
Personally i am glad the guy is dead,and a coward hiding behind one of his wifes.Yes there may be repercussions,but at least the leader of the pack is history
Yes there were celebrations on the streets of New York,but that is a natural reaction and a feeling of getting even,in some way for 9/11

[DexDexter]

Furthermore, we don't celebrate the 350,000 killed Soviets on our Independence Day, we commemorate the 80,000 killed Finns and celebrate the rest who managed to stay alive. There's a difference.

That's not quite the case, Simo Häyhä, the world's best sniper is a good example. He was/is considered a hero (and to me he is that) in this country and you know what that is based on, not our fallen soldiers or veterans who managed to stay alive. But that's just one example. Everybody who criticises Americans for killing their enemy should look into the (quite often near) past of their own country and see how they dealt with their enemies. You'll find out that Americans are pretty civilised compared to most.

[Rollo]

So people seriously don't understand the difference between celebrating the deaths of innocent individuals, and bringing an evil man to justice for the MURDER of 3,000 or so innocent civilians?

Well I'm glad I put myself of a bit of a break from here, and if that really is the viewpoint of people here then perhaps I'm right to stay away. There's just no way to have a logical discussions with people that do not understand the difference in the two celebrations being discussed.

Justice? Where's the justice?

About 3000 people died all up in the terrorist attacks on Sep 11, 2011. It is estimated that in the ten years since, between 34,000-38,000 Taliban & insurgents have been killed with a further 14,000-30,000 civilians who have also perished. If revenge seeks a blood payment under the laws of exact retribution, then surely that payment has been forcibly taken from anywhere between sixteen and twenty-two times over. Does that require rejoicing over the fact that the deal is decidedly unfair?

Justice? Where's the justice?

If you want to look at the monetary expense, there's ten years of direct expenses and then all the other expenses such as medical care and loss of productivity due to increased security measures. Economists estmate the direct costs at over $2,000,000,000,000 with the rest of the tab being maybe double that again.
If spending increases had merely kept in line with inflation since 2002 the US gross federal debt would probably be about $9 trillion but instead it stands at $14 trillion. In that respect the recompence is severaly lacking indeed.

Two measures: one which far exceeds what was taken, the other which doesn't even hope to make up the shortfall; neither of which are any true measure of justice. Yet celebration?

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy."
- Martin Luther King, Jr

[Eki]

That's not quite the case, Simo Häyhä, the world's best sniper is a good example. He was/is considered a hero (and to me he is that) in this country and you know what that is based on, not our fallen soldiers or veterans who managed to stay alive. But that's just one example. Everybody who criticises Americans for killing their enemy should look into the (quite often near) past of their own country and see how they dealt with their enemies. You'll find out that Americans are pretty civilised compared to most.
We don't celebrate the death of Stalin, which would be the closest to celebrating the death of Osama Bin Laden.

[F1boat]

I have to go with the right-wing supporters here... while no death is a cause for celebration, I understand why some people were relived from the end of a murderer, who slayed thousands and if able, would have killed many more. And about capture, forget it. His cronies would have taken hundreds of innocent hostages, to free their leader. The Americans did what they must.

[Malbec]

Justice? Where's the justice?

About 3000 people died all up in the terrorist attacks on Sep 11, 2011. It is estimated that in the ten years since, between 34,000-38,000 Taliban & insurgents have been killed with a further 14,000-30,000 civilians who have also perished. If revenge seeks a blood payment under the laws of exact retribution, then surely that payment has been forcibly taken from anywhere between sixteen and twenty-two times over. Does that require rejoicing over the fact that the deal is decidedly unfair?

Justice? Where's the justice?

How about the other people AQ and its associated organisations have killed before and after 9/11? Not just in the big attacks like Bali or 7/7 that we hear about but the everyday small scale killings in places like Indonesia and southern Thailand, India, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Ethiopia, Tanzania, Kenya, Eritrea, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, the list is endless.

[DexDexter]

We don't celebrate the death of Stalin, which would be the closest to celebrating the death of Osama Bin Laden.

We would have if we had dared.

[donKey jote]

So what?
Maybe they should have sprayed him with bacon fat- then he might of ended up like the Wicked Witch of the West-- "I'm melting-mellllting-oooooohh...."

I can't help but finding that image amusing. Damn! :p :laugh:

[cali]

That is cheap talk. In Kuwait that was a known fact, but give some sort of proof for profit in Afghanistan or oil in Iraq.
It is actually rather obtuse rhetoric at best without proof.

Who in the U.S. or Europe has made this big oil profit and just who made big money in Afghanistan.

If you are saying all politics is driven by money, including relief efforts, you might have straw to lean on, but let's see some proof to your specific claim.

Does "weapons of mass destruction in Iraq" ring a bell to you? :D :D

[Bob Riebe]

Does "weapons of mass destruction in Iraq" ring a bell to you? :D :D
Yes and what of it, leaked intelligence reports say that he was still trying to acquire them.

So you believe wait till they have them AND can use them-- brilliant.

If he had, had them, the death toll stopping him would probably have been higher, although the death toll as it is, was as high as it is, due to incompetence on behalf of the Bush Adm.

[downtowndeco]

And a hearty cheer didn't go up from your countrymen the hour it was announced the Soviets had been defeated? Bull****, I don't believe it. And no one else here does either.
Stop being so self rightous.


Furthermore, we don't celebrate the 350,000 killed Soviets on our Independence Day, we commemorate the 80,000 killed Finns and celebrate the rest who managed to stay alive. There's a difference.

[CNR]

dead or alive ?
no just dead
Bin Laden unarmed when killed: White House
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8244443/bin-laden-unarmed-when-killed-white-house

"In the room with bin Laden, a women — bin Laden's wife — rushed the US assaulter and was shot in the leg but not killed. Bin Laden was then shot and killed. He was not armed," Carney said.

The elite Navy SEALs came in on two helicopters.

"The team methodically cleared the compound moving from room to room in an operation lasting nearly 40 minutes," Carney said.

they should have taken him alive then ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged,_drawn_and_quartered
electric chair revive electric chair x 3000

[janvanvurpa]

Were you there?

I was.

Shut up!!!

Did you have fun playing brave soldier killing my relatives and burning their homes?
You sure seem to brag a lot about your participation in criminal and murderous activities you and your buddy Carne Asada or Posada have done.

It was illegal, and everybody knows it, but what the hey, as long as you and thugs you like kill people it's alright, they're just collateral damage.

But why if Noriega had not committed and crimes on US soil was he charged and extracted from a sovereign nation using gangs of killers in uniform to drag him before US Courts---there is a principle that the reach of US law stops at the border..

But Noriega, who had been yet another "strong man" favorite of the Americans, seems to have stopped obeying Washington's orders..
Better get a bunch of ignorantes to "just follow orders" and shoot up a lot of people, the law be damned..

Vops good buddy, another murderous madman:
Posada
convicted in absentia in Panama, of involvement in various terrorist attacks and plots in the Americas, including: involvement in the 1976 bombing of a Cuban airliner that killed seventy-three people;[6][7] admitted involvement in a string of bombings in 1997 targeting fashionable Cuban hotels and nightspots;


You were there? You shut your mouth in shame for the stain on MY COUNTRY's flag you did then.

[Bob Riebe]

Did you have fun playing brave soldier killing my relatives and burning their homes?
You sure seem to brag a lot about your participation in criminal and murderous activities you and your buddy Carne Asada or Posada have done.

It was illegal, and everybody knows it, but what the hey, as long as you and thugs you like kill people it's alright, they're just collateral damage.

But why if Noriega had not committed and crimes on US soil was he charged and extracted from a sovereign nation using gangs of killers in uniform to drag him before US Courts---there is a principle that the reach of US law stops at the border..

But Noriega, who had been yet another "strong man" favorite of the Americans, seems to have stopped obeying Washington's orders..
Better get a bunch of ignorantes to "just follow orders" and shoot up a lot of people, the law be damned..

Vops good buddy, another murderous madman:
Posada
convicted in absentia in Panama, of involvement in various terrorist attacks and plots in the Americas, including: involvement in the 1976 bombing of a Cuban airliner that killed seventy-three people;[6][7] admitted involvement in a string of bombings in 1997 targeting fashionable Cuban hotels and nightspots;


You were there? You shut your mouth in shame for the stain on MY COUNTRY's flag you did then.
Troll on.

[Rollo]

Were you there?

I was.

Shut up!!!

"Ten years I was fighting in the Falklands, ten long years! We didn't have any toilets. We didn't have any telly. We didn't have any buses, we had to carry everything. Tents, equipment, ammo... whatever that is... Souvenirs... Shopping... Yeah, shopping. Shopping! I liberated Port Stanley Tescos you know!"
- Richard Richard, Bottom "Parade"

[anthonyvop]

Did you have fun playing brave soldier killing my relatives and burning their homes?
You sure seem to brag a lot about your participation in criminal and murderous activities you and your buddy Carne Asada or Posada have done.

It was illegal, and everybody knows it, but what the hey, as long as you and thugs you like kill people it's alright, they're just collateral damage.

But why if Noriega had not committed and crimes on US soil was he charged and extracted from a sovereign nation using gangs of killers in uniform to drag him before US Courts---there is a principle that the reach of US law stops at the border..

But Noriega, who had been yet another "strong man" favorite of the Americans, seems to have stopped obeying Washington's orders..
Better get a bunch of ignorantes to "just follow orders" and shoot up a lot of people, the law be damned..

Vops good buddy, another murderous madman:
Posada
convicted in absentia in Panama, of involvement in various terrorist attacks and plots in the Americas, including: involvement in the 1976 bombing of a Cuban airliner that killed seventy-three people;[6][7] admitted involvement in a string of bombings in 1997 targeting fashionable Cuban hotels and nightspots;


You were there? You shut your mouth in shame for the stain on MY COUNTRY's flag you did then.

Trust me.....I wasn't there for you. You were just lucky I was.

I served my country....

Have you?

Didn't think so.

[gloomyDAY]

Trust me.....I wasn't there for you. You were just lucky I was.

I served my country....

Have you?

Didn't think so.I think I've asked before, but were you in the military? Which country did you fight for Tony?

[Bob Riebe]

WASHINGTON (AP) — Killing Osama bin Laden was a big victory for the U.S., but how exactly the raid went down is another story — and another, and another.

Over two days, the White House has offered contradictory versions of events, including misidentifying which of bin Laden's sons was killed and wrongly saying bin Laden's wife died in gunfire, as it tries to sort through what the president's press secretary called the "fog of combat" and produce an accurate account.

Press Secretary Jay Carney said Tuesday that officials were trying to get information out as quickly as possible about the complex event witnessed by just a handful of people, and the story line was being corrected.

This is what happens when an administration is founded on lies and damned lies, even good news is turned into pathetic bull-****.

[555-04Q2]

^^^^ I know you are playing devils advocate but are you really comparing Bin Laden with George W Bush?

George W Bush is a greater terrorist than Osama Bin Laden ever was. How George W Bush, Tony Blair etc are not in a world court for war crimes is beyond me. If anyone needed to be killed for crimes committed, its those guys.

[Eki]

I served my country....

Cuba?

[555-04Q2]

Cuba?

Nevada!

[Eki]

dead or alive ?
no just dead
Bin Laden unarmed when killed: White House
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8244443/bin-laden-unarmed-when-killed-white-house

they should have taken him alive then ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged,_drawn_and_quartered
electric chair revive electric chair x 3000

I can't decide which is more cowardly, to hide behind a woman or to shoot an unarmed man.

[cali]

Yes and what of it, leaked intelligence reports say that he was still trying to acquire them.

So you believe wait till they have them AND can use them-- brilliant.

If he had, had them, the death toll stopping him would probably have been higher, although the death toll as it is, was as high as it is, due to incompetence on behalf of the Bush Adm.
no no no no my dear Bobby-boy - USA claimed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, not that they were trying to acquire them. BTW, did you know that CIA funded Saddam for a long period of time?

OK Bob, you are clearly blindfolded and living in your own cinderella world, so it is time for me to stop argueing with you. Bye :)

[Eki]

no no no no my dear Bobby-boy - USA claimed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, not that they were trying to acquire them. BTW, did you know that CIA funded Saddam for a long period of time?

OK Bob, you are clearly blindfolded and living in your own cinderella world, so it is time for me to stop argueing with you. Bye :)
And their lap dog Blair claimed with a straight face that Iraq was ready to use the WMDs in 45 minutes. Maybe he was talking about designing an instant nuclear bomb.

[555-04Q2]

I can't decide which is more cowardly, to hide behind a woman or to shoot an unarmed man.

Hiding behind a woman for sure <sick>

[janvanvurpa]

I can't decide which is more cowardly, to hide behind a woman or to shoot an unarmed man.

Maybe he made a scary face.

[downtowndeco]

That says a lot about where your mind set is.

On one hand you have a wanted criminal who hides behind an innocent woman. Forget that he was wanted, there is never any justification for a man to hide behind a woman, unless he is a cowardly worm of a man.

On the other hand you have a special operations team who, after almost ten years, locates and comes face to face with the most wanted man in the world. A man who is personally responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent men, women and children. A man who believes that the ulitmate way to paradise is to die as a martyr. A man who hates everything about your culture and way of life and has vowed to destroy it by any means available, including a nuclear weapon if he can get his hands on it. You believe it is very possible, in fact, likely, that in the next few seconds he may try to either escape or grab a weapon (which logic tells you that he must have stashed around the house just in case such a situation should ever arise) and try and kill you.

Who can't figure out who is morally right and who is morally wrong in this situation? Shame on you.


I can't decide which is more cowardly, to hide behind a woman or to shoot an unarmed man.

[cali]

And their lap dog Blair claimed with a straight face that Iraq was ready to use the WMDs in 45 minutes. Maybe he was talking about designing an instant nuclear bomb.

OK, they did not find any - which was totally expected. The question is - why are the troops still in Iraq??? Spreading democracy all over among muslims??? Please give me a break :D The people in Iraq or Afghanistan will never accept our manners, culture, religion and so-called democracy. Are the locals happy about it -NO!

I'm not anti USA, but I am against any military invasion :) But OK, this is the world we are living and moaning about it here, in the forum, does not help a bit. Just surprised to see so many blindfolded ultrapatriots here and are heavily influenced by mass media (propaganda).

[555-04Q2]

That says a lot about where your mind set is.

On one hand you have a wanted criminal who hides behind an innocent woman. Forget that he was wanted, there is never any justification for a man to hide behind a woman, unless he is a cowardly worm of a man.

On the other hand you have a special operations team who, after almost ten years, locates and comes face to face with the most wanted man in the world. A man who is personally responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent men, women and children. A man who believes that the ulitmate way to paradise is to die as a martyr. A man who hates everything about your culture and way of life and has vowed to destroy it by any means available, including a nuclear weapon if he can get his hands on it. You believe it is very possible, in fact, likely, that in the next few seconds he may try to either escape or grab a weapon (which logic tells you that he must have stashed around the house just in case such a situation should ever arise) and try and kill you.

Who can't figure out who is morally right and who is morally wrong in this situation? Shame on you.

Or they could look in their own back yard at someone like George W Bush who is also responsible for the death of innocent woman, children and men. We don't see a task force looking for him now do we, yet he seemed too hate the Muslim culture and wiped out just as many Muslims as Bin Laden did Westerners.

[gadjo_dilo]

Were you there?

I was.

Shut up!!!

Your simple presence there ( BTW what were you doing there? ) doesn't mean you know the "truth" and anyway you're not in the position to order anybody to shut up.

On the same time ( December 1989 ) I was right in the middle of another "hot" event and I saw what happened. However the "truth" behind the event is not clear even today ( although it's a fact that both CIA and KGB were involved :laugh :) .

[cali]

That says a lot about where your mind set is.

On one hand you have a wanted criminal who hides behind an innocent woman. Forget that he was wanted, there is never any justification for a man to hide behind a woman, unless he is a cowardly worm of a man.

On the other hand you have a special operations team who, after almost ten years, locates and comes face to face with the most wanted man in the world. A man who is personally responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent men, women and children. A man who believes that the ulitmate way to paradise is to die as a martyr. A man who hates everything about your culture and way of life and has vowed to destroy it by any means available, including a nuclear weapon if he can get his hands on it. You believe it is very possible, in fact, likely, that in the next few seconds he may try to either escape or grab a weapon (which logic tells you that he must have stashed around the house just in case such a situation should ever arise) and try and kill you.

Who can't figure out who is morally right and who is morally wrong in this situation? Shame on you.
Just one question - do you know by a fact that OBL was hiding behind a woman, or you just believe the reports leaked into media to ...errmmm...let's say...discredit OBL in front of a whole world and muslims? This could be true or not, I would discredit such claims as it is not the main point in this case.

Sorry to say, but I do not believe the mass media anymore, beacause information is the greatest tool to influence masses.

[downtowndeco]

I have no idea whether he was actually hiding behind his wife or not and quite franky I don't give a ****. As the worlds most wanted man he chose to endanger all that surrounded him simply by having them live with him. He personally is responsible to any harm that may have come to his family because he should have just crawled off to a hole somewhere alone to keep his family safe.


Just one question - do you know by a fact that OBL was hiding behind a woman, or you just believe the reports leaked into media to ...errmmm...let's say...discredit OBL in front of a whole world and muslims? This could be true or not, I would discredit such claims as it is not the main point in this case.

Sorry to say, but I do not believe the mass media anymore, beacause information is the greatest tool to influence masses.

[downtowndeco]

Examples and exact quotes from GWB please.


Or they could look in their own back yard at someone like George W Bush who is also responsible for the death of innocent woman, children and men. We don't see a task force looking for him now do we, yet he seemed too hate the Muslim culture and wiped out just as many Muslims as Bin Laden did Westerners.

[555-04Q2]

Examples and exact quotes from GWB please.

Are you ferking nuts? The guy ordered the killing of thousands of people in Muslim countries. Examples and quotes? If you watched TV over the last decade you would have heard and seen them all. Examples and quotes :crazy:

[cali]

I have no idea whether he was actually hiding behind his wife or not and quite franky I don't give a ****. As the worlds most wanted man he chose to endanger all that surrounded him simply by having them live with him. He personally is responsible to any harm that may have come to his family because he should have just crawled off to a hole somewhere alone to keep his family safe.

I still would've preferred that they would capture him alive. But maybe he did not surrender and it was necessary to eliminate him. The world is still not safer place to live, it could be quite the opposite and that's what I'm afraid of. Now USA as the world Police should also protect us ;) ... but they ar not as mighty as they claim so we could be f**ed up in a larger scale than never by those extremists again. This is my only concern. If killing OBL would bring world peace, I would be celebrating this as well, but it is more likely that it will only bring more attacks against western civilization.

[555-04Q2]

I still would've preferred that they would capture him alive. But maybe he did not surrender and it was necessary to eliminate him. The world is still not safer place to live, it could be quite the opposite and that's what I'm afraid of. Now USA as the world Police should also protect us ;) ... but they ar not as mighty as they claim so we could be f**ed up in a larger scale than never by those extremists again. This is my only concern. If killing OBL would bring world peace, I would be celebrating this as well, but it is more likely that it will only bring more attacks against western civilization.

Killing Osama Bin Laden has made the world a worse place to be now. The backlash is coming and it will affect all of us :(

[DexDexter]

Killing Osama Bin Laden has made the world a worse place to be now. The backlash is coming and it will affect all of us :(

That may well be but it is really easy for you to criticize, since Bin Laden's men didn't run a couple of South African airliners into the centre of Capetown and kill thousands of people. You wouldn't care about backflash, you'd seek revenge. I see that most non-American writers over here don't realise how big the attack was, psychologically as well. They needed some kind of revenge, they needed to get Bin Laden, no matter what the cost. It's not going to end terrorism, nobody is saying that but it is in people's nature to seek revenge, justice, twisted or not. it's in all of us, including the writers who criticise American actions.

[555-04Q2]

That may well be but it is really easy for you to criticize, since Bin Laden's men didn't run a couple of South African airliners into the centre of Capetown and kill thousands of people. You wouldn't care about backflash, you'd seek revenge. I see that most non-American writers over here don't realise how big the attack was, psychologically as well. They needed some kind of revenge, they needed to get Bin Laden, no matter what the cost. It's not going to end terrorism, nobody is saying that but it is in people's nature to seek revenge, justice, twisted or not. it's in all of us, including the writers who criticise American actions.

All nationalities, including South Africans, have been affected by this so called war on terror. Our authorities over here have made several arrests of terror groups linked to Osama Bin Laden who had explosives and intel in their possesion for the attack of targets in South Africa, more specifically, targets in Cape Town. Luckily, we were able to prevent them from happening. The whole world is a target, not just the Americans, who started all this sh!t in the first place.

[DexDexter]

All nationalities, including South Africans, have been affected by this so called war on terror. Our authorities over here have made several arrests of terror groups linked to Osama Bin Laden who had explosives and intel in their possesion for the attack of targets in South Africa, more specifically, targets in Cape Town. Luckily, we were able to prevent them from happening. The whole world is a target, not just the Americans, who started all this sh!t in the first place.

How did the Americans start this? I just don't see it. To me it started in 1998 in Kenya.

[Eki]

Examples and exact quotes from GWB please.

Well, there's his crusade speech for example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Crusade


The word crusade was used by US President George W. Bush first on the day of the September 11, 2001 attacks, quoted below, and on the national day of mourning which honored the death of the more than 3,000 victims of the attacks. He said that "this crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while.".[1] The use of this figure of speech was criticized in Europe, and Arabic-speaking countries. Supporters of the President's usage of crusade argue that from context Bush had used the word crusade in a military, non-religious sense, such as The Great Crusade which was the phrase used by General Dwight D. Eisenhower to describe the D-Day invasion of Europe to the Allied troops in his order of the day broadcast.[2] They point to many modern dictionaries which define crusade (not capitalized) to include any vigorous action aimed at achieving a particular noble goal.[3][4] However, particularly in predominantly Muslim parts of the world, the term crusade produces the same sort of negative reaction as the term jihad does in much of the West.

Then there's his "You're either with us, or against us" -speech. He left no middle ground, and I think he gained more enemies than friends with that speech. At least Bin Laden has never demanded us to join him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You're_either_with_us,_or_against_us


The phrase "you're either with us, or against us" and similar variations are used to depict situations as being polarized and to force witnesses and bystanders to become allies or lose favor. The implied consequence of not joining the team effort is to be deemed an enemy.

[555-04Q2]

How did the Americans start this? I just don't see it. To me it started in 1998 in Kenya.

They have been funding terrorist and extremist groups for decades to fight the wars they could not legally fight to achieve their own greedy agendas. Now it is coming back to bite them. Saddam was the first one, now the rest are coming out to play.

[ArrowsFA1]

For 10 years, Osama bin Laden filled a gap left by the Soviet Union. Who will be the baddie now?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/03/osama-bin-laden-soviet-union-baddie

[cali]

America is not perfect and has made mistakes, but that comes with the territory of being the most powerful country in the world. Would the world be better off if the biggest super power in the world was Russia/Soviet Union or China?

My dear friend, If you haven't noticed then China is now the biggest super power, they have achieved this by far more clever ways - economics!

[Eki]

How did the Americans start this? I just don't see it. To me it started in 1998 in Kenya.

http://www.allgreatquotes.com/osama_binladen_quotes.shtml


God knows it did not cross our minds to attack the towers but after the situation became unbearable and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed -- when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way (and) to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women.

Osama bin Laden
Admitting responsibility for attacks on US on September 11, 2001, on videotape shown on Al Jazeera, October 29, 2004

[Big Ben]

thanks God we have people defending the guy who encourages his sons to go on suicide missions, who thinks he'll be rewarded in the afterlife with countless virgins for killing others and when faced with his enemies hides behind a woman. these people are arguing for the sake of arguing or they're just morons. Either way it's a waste of time to keep reading what they're saying.

[ShiftingGears]

Shoot the *******s dead and save the circus atmosphere and a lot of money.
Eric Holder made an ass out himself, Obama and the U.S. by putting a terrorist on trial, I think, hope, Pres. Obama learned his lesson. Sometimes learning the hard-way is the best way.

Arguably it would've been a greater psychological blow to Al Qaeda, as having him captured alive would've caused great humiliation to their organisation and those like it.

[555-04Q2]

thanks God we have people defending the guy who encourages his sons to go on suicide missions, who thinks he'll be rewarded in the afterlife with countless virgins for killing others and when faced with his enemies hides behind a woman. these people are arguing for the sake of arguing or they're just morons. Either way it's a waste of time to keep reading what they're saying.

I have not seen one person here defending what Osama Bin Laden and his group are doing. They are merely pointing out that there are two sides to the story, not just the one the West wants people to believe. Both parties have blood on their hands, yet both portray the other side as the bad guys. Maybe they should all look in the mirror once in a while and ask, "Are we really good people? Are our actions justified?". If they had a bit of common sense, both sides would answer NO. Alas, the world is full of people who are always right over others.

The West started this fight a long time ago, and refuse to accept this fact and hence the "opposition" is retaliating. What do you do when you are under attack? You fight back if you can. The solution would be for both parties to sit down like adults and come to an agreement, but that will never happen, will it, as both believe they are right and justified in their actions?

As for morons...it takes one to spot one...as they say.

[ShiftingGears]

According to wikileaks, Al Qaeda has threatened to detonate a nuclear bomb in Europe if Osama is killed. Fellow Europeans, let's all say "THANK YOU, AMERICA".

If they had a nuclear device, they would've detonated it already. Are you saying you would rather Osama continue to exist without having to face justice for his crimes against Muslims and non-Muslims alike?

[555-04Q2]

If they had a nuclear device, they would've detonated it already. Are you saying you would rather Osama continue to exist without having to face justice for his crimes against Muslims and non-Muslims alike?

It doesn't really matter because everyone loses in the end. There is going to be no winner here.

[cali]

It doesn't really matter because everyone loses in the end. There is going to be no winner here.
Exactly!Justice for what? Then the circle will go on, for next Al Qaeda is looking for justice, then USA or some other western country, then Al Qaeda, then USA .... Oh yes, please bring us justice! Justice is if we all could end this, that's justice for all! But you cannot end this crap if you go and kill everyone in your "holy" path towards justice ... people need to get sober and think straight for a while.

[555-04Q2]

Exactly!Justice for what? Then the circle will go on, for next Al Qaeda is looking for justice, then USA or some other western country, then Al Qaeda, then USA .... Oh yes, please bring us justice! Justice is if we all could end this, that's justice for all! But you cannot end this crap if you go and kill everyone in your "holy" path towards justice ... people need to get sober and think straight for a while.

You make too much sense. You should be hung from the gallows :p :

[cali]

you make too much sense. You should be hung from the gallows :p :
:p
lol

[Ranger]

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."

- Martin Luther King, Jr.

Just an alternative perspective.

[Rudy Tamasz]

cali, you need to assume just for a moment that people who designed and executed the operation were professionals and knew what they were doing. You need to take a quick look at military history books and strategy manuals to understand the rationale behind targeting the enemy commander. Using the common wisdom to support your arguments does justice netiher to you nor to other forum folks here.

[555-04Q2]

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."

- Martin Luther King, Jr.

Just an alternative perspective.

:up:

[cali]

Take a look at this:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/04/us-obama-statement-idUSTRE74107920110504

"The authority here was to kill bin Laden," he said. "And obviously, under the rules of engagement, if he had in fact thrown up his hands, surrendered and didn't appear to be representing any kind of threat, then they were to capture him. But they had full authority to kill him."

And he was not hiding behind his wife as reported earlier ...

[Eki]

If they had a nuclear device, they would've detonated it already. Are you saying you would rather Osama continue to exist without having to face justice for his crimes against Muslims and non-Muslims alike?
Justice or revenge? IMO justice would be GWB sitting in the same cell with Osama Bin Laden.

[cali]

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."

- Martin Luther King, Jr.

Just an alternative perspective.
:up:

[MrJan]

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."

- Martin Luther King, Jr.

Just an alternative perspective.

Apparently not something he ever said:

http://www.voice-online.co.uk/content.php?show=19538

:)

[chuck34]

This will be the last I say on this subject (or probably any other on here for quite some time). But I must say that 99.999999% of the time I will not celebrate any person's death. This is probably the one exception, probably Hitler too had I been around. This guy became more and less than a person long ago. More than one person, he was a symbol for hatred in the world. Less than a human being because he did not value any human life.

For those of you who seem to be thinking that we should not have killed him because somehow now terrorists are going to be targeting people. What do you think they have been doing? You honestly think that now they will do more? Get real. They are already doing everything in their power to kill every infidel they can.

Capturing him would have only given the Western bleeding hearts a cause to rally around. How many protests of the "inhuman" treatment would we have seen? How many calls of "torture" would we have heard? How long would all of this drug on? There is nothing that the US could have done right in this situation to satisfy many people around the world (or on this board). There will be and are calls of the US is evil, they did the wrong thing, they shouldn't have killed him, etc. But those calls and protests will soon die out. Had we captured him, those misguided voices would have wailed on for years. Proving to those very terrorists that Westerners are weak, and that they are winning, a little more pressure and we will bend to their every demand. All they have to do is kill a few more people, blow up a few more buildings, behead a few more innocents, and they will get everything they ever wanted. The people of the West will demand their own demise. I'm already hearing those calls from many on this very board. Honestly, that makes me sick. If we just pulled out of Afghanistan this would all stop. If we just pulled out of Iraq this would all stop. If we just pulled out of Sudia Arabia this would all stop. If we just pulled out of Israel this would all stop. If we just stopped believing in Christianity this would all stop. Where exactly do you people think it will actually stop?

[Ranger]

Apparently not something he ever said:

http://www.voice-online.co.uk/content.php?show=19538

:)

Thought-provoking nonetheless.

[Garry Walker]

According to wikileaks, Al Qaeda has threatened to detonate a nuclear bomb in Europe if Osama is killed. Fellow Europeans, let's all say "THANK YOU, AMERICA".

I guess you Americans have no chance to understand that they will attack you (and thanks to you, now maybe also us) as long as you give them excuses to attack.
Okay, we should just let them threaten ourselves into submission and bend over. I guess you would love that.


Because by killing him we risk sinking to his level. Think, then post.



He should have spent his days rotting in a cell, now he's a martyr.
What kind of a jail? The kind they had in USSR and have in North Korea, where you suffer endlessly, you are in the same room with a huge bunch of other sick criminals or the kind that they have in many countries today, with all the luxuries? I am pretty sure that Amnesty international and all such organizations, not to mention guardian readers would get a heart attack if they had put Osama in the first. But otherwise, that wouldnt be rotting in jail anymore. I would have been quite content if they had put Osama in same room with about 25 of the most sickest rapists and deviants in the world and let him happily live his life there, but I am sure you didnt have that kind of a jail in mind for him.


You, then, tell us what the difference is, take your time, explain.
One picture represents people being happy that 3000 innocent civilians have died, the other represents a picture of people being happy that the mass murderer behind the deaths of many of their close relatives is finally dead. If you cant understand the difference, then I will personally send you the fuel and matches, if you promise to use them on yourself.


George W Bush is a greater terrorist than Osama Bin Laden ever was..
FFS, is this forum the gathering place for every idiot in the world now?


Are you ferking nuts? The guy ordered the killing of thousands of people in Muslim countries.
No, he didnt.


Killing Osama Bin Laden has made the world a worse place to be now. The backlash is coming and it will affect all of us :(

So what should we have done with him? Not chase him at all?


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/03/osama-bin-laden-soviet-union-baddie
I am not sure why this idiotic paper is so popular for some here.


My dear friend, If you haven't noticed then China is now the biggest super power, they have achieved this by far more clever ways - economics!
Not yet, but soon.

http://www.allgreatquotes.com/osama_binladen_quotes.shtml Good one, using Osama quotes to prove your case.
Why dont you use quotes by Hitler to prove that jews are behind all the bad in world?


thanks God we have people defending the guy who encourages his sons to go on suicide missions, who thinks he'll be rewarded in the afterlife with countless virgins for killing others and when faced with his enemies hides behind a woman. these people are arguing for the sake of arguing or they're just morons. Either way it's a waste of time to keep reading what they're saying.It is quite sad, isnt it.


Exactly!Justice for what? Then the circle will go on, for next Al Qaeda is looking for justice, then USA or some other western country, then Al Qaeda, then USA .... Oh yes, please bring us justice! Justice is if we all could end this, that's justice for all! But you cannot end this crap if you go and kill everyone in your "holy" path towards justice ... people need to get sober and think straight for a while.
Well, mr.Kissinger, how do you propose we end this conflict?

Justice or revenge? IMO justice would be GWB sitting in the same cell with Osama Bin Laden.
Justice would have been you being in one of the twin towers.

[Eki]

Justice would have been you being in one of the twin towers.
Only if you had been in the other one.

[cali]

Well, mr.Kissinger, how do you propose we end this conflict?


Not by killing each-other and declare that this is justice.

[Garry Walker]

Only if you had been in the other one.
Sorry, my life is worth too much compared to yours. Maybe we could reach a deal whereby a firefly is in the other tower, then it would equal value.


Not by killing each-other and declare that this is justice.

So you have no solutions, other than "cant we just all get along"? How very surprising

[cali]

Sorry, my life is worth too much compared to yours. Maybe we could reach a deal whereby a firefly is in the other tower, then it would equal value.



So you have no solutions, other than "cant we just all get along"? How very surprising

Better than the current kill em' all

Actually it is very simple: GTFO from Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan etc and start dealing with domestic REAL problems like economics, drug abuse, social care etc. Easy. How many taxdollars americans spent to track down OBL in ten years?
But OK, as I understood bloodshed is the way to go. Nice!

[Garry Walker]

Better than the current kill em' all

I guess in your way of thinking, we should just let them kiss as many of us as possible and hope that one day they might get bored and stop, right?

[Garry Walker]

This will be the last I say on this subject (or probably any other on here for quite some time). But I must say that 99.999999% of the time I will not celebrate any person's death. This is probably the one exception, probably Hitler too had I been around. This guy became more and less than a person long ago. More than one person, he was a symbol for hatred in the world. Less than a human being because he did not value any human life.

For those of you who seem to be thinking that we should not have killed him because somehow now terrorists are going to be targeting people. What do you think they have been doing? You honestly think that now they will do more? Get real. They are already doing everything in their power to kill every infidel they can.

Capturing him would have only given the Western bleeding hearts a cause to rally around. How many protests of the "inhuman" treatment would we have seen? How many calls of "torture" would we have heard? How long would all of this drug on? There is nothing that the US could have done right in this situation to satisfy many people around the world (or on this board). There will be and are calls of the US is evil, they did the wrong thing, they shouldn't have killed him, etc. But those calls and protests will soon die out. Had we captured him, those misguided voices would have wailed on for years. Proving to those very terrorists that Westerners are weak, and that they are winning, a little more pressure and we will bend to their every demand. All they have to do is kill a few more people, blow up a few more buildings, behead a few more innocents, and they will get everything they ever wanted. The people of the West will demand their own demise. I'm already hearing those calls from many on this very board. Honestly, that makes me sick. If we just pulled out of Afghanistan this would all stop. If we just pulled out of Iraq this would all stop. If we just pulled out of Sudia Arabia this would all stop. If we just pulled out of Israel this would all stop. If we just stopped believing in Christianity this would all stop. Where exactly do you people think it will actually stop?

Excellent post.

[Ranger]

http://www.smh.com.au/world/us-sets-record-straight-on-bin-laden-killing-20110504-1e7rp.html

Turns out he didn't hide behind his wife. Changes nothing he did previously though.

The events of the raid really won't be entirely clear until everyone sees that video, methinks.

[cali]

I guess in your way of thinking, we should just let them kiss as many of us as possible and hope that one day they might get bored and stop, right?
There's always a reason for every consequence and USA/Israel has given more than enough of a reason. Do you really think that OBL one fine day just woke up with an idea of attacking WTC towers? Just like that this idea came to his mind? If you take away the reason, then there's no consequence to deal with.

Not that I'm justifying OBL or smthin, but clearly you cannot even understand the reasons for all of this and it goes waay back in history. And now we have consequence where all of these idiots are killing each-other and thus affecting our lives as well with their games.

[555-04Q2]

Only if you had been in the other one.

:laugh: ROTFLMFAO :laugh:

Classic :up:

[555-04Q2]

FFS, is this forum the gathering place for every idiot in the world now?

Since you are here now, yes, every idiot is now accounted for.

[555-04Q2]

If we just pulled out of Afghanistan this would all stop. If we just pulled out of Iraq this would all stop. If we just pulled out of Sudia Arabia this would all stop. If we just pulled out of Israel this would all stop. If we just stopped believing in Christianity this would all stop. Where exactly do you people think it will actually stop?

Its far too late to pull out now. The West should never have been in those places in the first place. Look at the sh!t it has caused, and it will never go away now. If you start a fire, you better have a plan to put it out if it gets out of control. Standing with your d!ck in your hands hoping that will put it out aint gonna work.

[schmenke]

How did the Americans start this? I just don't see it. To me it started in 1998 in Kenya.

You have to go further back than that...

Two root events triggered much of the social mess that we face today:

1. The discovery of petroleum deposits in Saudi Arabia and neighbouring countries in the 1930s, with subsequent land lease agreements to British and US developers soon after; and,
2. The creation of the state of Israel in 1948.

:dozey:

[chuck34]

Its far too late to pull out now. The West should never have been in those places in the first place. Look at the sh!t it has caused, and it will never go away now. If you start a fire, you better have a plan to put it out if it gets out of control. Standing with your d!ck in your hands hoping that will put it out aint gonna work.

Yep "we broke it". Now we have to fix it. We're there now, trying to set up a more representitive government so that they might be able to pull themselves out of the 17th century. But that's not good for people either. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

[555-04Q2]

Yep "we broke it". Now we have to fix it. We're there now, trying to set up a more representitive government so that they might be able to pull themselves out of the 17th century. But that's not good for people either. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

It doesn't need fixing, it needs leaving alone. If they want to live in the 17th century, thats their business and who are we to tell them otherwise.

[ArrowsFA1]

Yep "we broke it". Now we have to fix it. We're there now, trying to set up a more representitive government so that they might be able to pull themselves out of the 17th century. But that's not good for people either. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
But isn't the fix based on the assumption that we (in the west) know what is right for the region, and as long as that remains the case there will continue to be resistance and an incompatability between our view and the history, traditions & reality of the Middle East?

[anthonyvop]

Maybe he made a scary face.

Gonna answer my question or still rant on insulting those who sacrificed to give you that right?

[anthonyvop]

Are you ferking nuts? The guy ordered the killing of thousands of people in Muslim countries. Examples and quotes? If you watched TV over the last decade you would have heard and seen them all. Examples and quotes :crazy:

He did? When ? Where?

Show me where he ordered the killing of Muslims anywhere.

[555-04Q2]

He did? When ? Where?

Show me where he ordered the killing of Muslims anywhere.

You missed his post 9/11 speech did you?

[downtowndeco]

"Leaving it alone" stopped being an option when terrorists who were knowingly allowed to operate in Afghanistan by it's government flew two jets into the World Trade Center. At that moment their business became our business.

Likewise, it is not just our business, but the entire civilized world's business if a country and it's people want to live in the 17th century because in this day of apocalyptic weaponry the free, civilized world has no obligation to live in the shadow of people who want to live in the 17th century yet seek access to world ending nuclear weapons.

"Leaving it alone" is what happened in Germany in WWII. In Rwanda in 1994. And in Kosovo in 1998. We do not have the luxury of looking the other way.




It doesn't need fixing, it needs leaving alone. If they want to live in the 17th century, thats their business and who are we to tell them otherwise.

[Eki]

Yep "we broke it". Now we have to fix it. We're there now, trying to set up a more representitive government so that they might be able to pull themselves out of the 17th century. But that's not good for people either. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
Why don't you go and help the Amish to pull themselves out of the 17th century first. They are much closer to you and much fewer, so it'd be cheaper. An added bonus is that they aren't armed, as far as I know.

[555-04Q2]

Here you go ant:

http://www.britannica.com/bps/additionalcontent/8/398253/Document-George-W-Bush-Declaration-of-War-on-Terrorism

The declaration of war on terrorism was directly aimed at Muslims.

[555-04Q2]

Why don't you go and help the Amish to pull themselves out of the 17th century first. They are much closer to you and much fewer, so it'd be cheaper. An added bonus is that they aren't armed, as far as I know.

They have pitch forks, which are very dangerous and would require a full airstrike to ensure a safe entry for the ground troops to mop up the survivors.

[555-04Q2]

"Leaving it alone" stopped being an option when terrorists who were knowingly allowed to operate in Afghanistan by it's government flew two jets into the World Trade Center. At that moment their business became our business.

Likewise, it is not just our business, but the entire civilized world's business if a country and it's people want to live in the 17th century because in this day of apocalyptic weaponry the free, civilized world has no obligation to live in the shadow of people who want to live in the 17th century yet seek access to world ending nuclear weapons.

"Leaving it alone" is what happened in Germany in WWII. In Rwanda in 1994. And in Kosovo in 1998. We do not have the luxury of looking the other way.

What if the rest of the world wants to change the West because they feel we create too much pollution with our 21st century technologies. Are they not right in wanting to stop us then? Who decides who gets their way? The guy with the bigger bomb?

Your post is very one sided in the West's favour and f#ck the rest of the world and what they think, what they believe or how they want to live their lives.

[555-04Q2]

"Leaving it alone" stopped being an option when terrorists who were knowingly allowed to operate in Afghanistan by it's government flew two jets into the World Trade Center. At that moment their business became our business.

They were merely retaliating, they weren't the aggressors. Go back 5 decades for the start of todays problems. They didn't have the resources you do, so they improvised with devastating effects.