We almost saw ourselves a beheading! [Archive]

race aficionado

18th March 2007, 19:29

All these new threads so I'm sorry if this has been discussed already and feel free to merge it . . . . but did you see that onboard shot of DC flying over Wutz's car????

Am I being exaggerated when I say that this could have easily been a fatal accident?

F1 has surely gotten safer when it comes to cars flipping over, rolling a couple of times and the driver gets out unharmed . . . . but this case with a flying car missing the drives head by inches, very scary indeed and nothing much that could have prevented it other than having the driver protected by a steel roof -which is not the design intended for an open wheeled F1 car.

Thank goodness that all is well and that something is leaned after that close call.

:s mokin:

SteveA

18th March 2007, 19:39

Yes he was lucky he didn't lose his head, but also his hands! Its a good job he pulled them in, it was very close, and I wouldn't be surprised it there's damage on the steering wheel!

EuroTroll

18th March 2007, 19:48

Am I being exaggerated when I say that this could have easily been a fatal accident?

I don't think so. It really looked like it could have been, with worse luck.

Viktory

18th March 2007, 20:04

It was really scary watching the onboard, very close. Could have ended tragically.

52Paddy

18th March 2007, 20:05

DC was a bit too optimistic on that move and, as he said himself, was carrying way too much speed into the corner. From the onboard camera and the nature of his move, it seemed like Wurz didn't know DC was coming down on the inside.

Ok, so fair play to DC for putting his hand up and admitting to being in the wrong but he's very lucky that it didn't end up a lot worse. The Red Bull came very close to ripping Wurz's head off and I really wouldn't have liked to think what state the F1 fanclub would have been in. And DC too, with something like that on his conscience.

There is always a risk of injury in the sport and, even though the level of safety in the sport is very much "up to date", it is impossible to avoid fatal accidents at any cost. With so many ranges of different possibilities of crashes and accidents, it's very difficult to eradicate them all without compromising something else.

It's not often that this kind of accident happens but it's not difficult for it to happen again. It's all down to the driver in DC's position to ensure that a scapegoat isn't made of the other driver and make a sensible decision.

That's my thoughts on it anyway.

Helstar

18th March 2007, 20:11

David has a looong history of stupid moves ... I hope this is his last year because he's always a danger for everybody in the circus. Step out soon please !

Dave B

18th March 2007, 20:11

Watching the onboard in slow motion it's scary just how close Wurz's left hand came to DC's car :eek:

jso1985

18th March 2007, 20:21

yep! I think Wurz was centimeters away from losing his left hand!
Lucky accident this time, kinda hard to find safety measures for this rare accidents(besides putting roofs of F1 cars).
and yet another incident caused by Coulthard...

SteveA

18th March 2007, 20:32

DC seems to be having accidents akin to pensioners' "pressing the accelerator instead of the brake". Maybe its time he was pensioned off!

Nikki Katz

19th March 2007, 19:23

It was a stupid move from Coulthard, but I guess these things happen. Though mostly to him.
The accident didn't look that bad at first view, possibly as it was immediately clear everyone was ok. But even if Wurz losing his head might have been unlikely, him losing his hand certainly wouldn't be, and I wouldn't have ruled out either seeing the on-board footage. I hope we don't get accidents like that again.

K-Pu

19th March 2007, 21:09

Well... When I saw this I remembered another dangerous crash:

Jos Verstappen, Martin Brundle, Eric Bernard and... Irvine IIRC at Interlagos in 1994. Verstappen wheel did actually hit Brundle´s head, but nothing happened. It could have been a fatal accident, but luckyly it didn´t happen anything.

Wurz has been lucky too, because, as you said before, he could have lost his hand though losing his head would be less possible. And you can´t do much to avoid these kind of things, because F1 cars will never have roof.

At least DC admitted it was his fault instead of blaming everyone else...

SteveA

20th March 2007, 03:03

And you can´t do much to avoid these kind of things, because F1 cars will never have roof.

They could build up the protection around the driver though - new rules about minimum distance between (any) edge of the steering "wheel" and the top of the cockpit. It won't improve the look of the cars, but it might reduce the risk of injury in such a situation.

raikk

20th March 2007, 03:42

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f220/raikk/WurzCoulthard.jpg

:eek: :eek:

race aficionado

20th March 2007, 04:05

Boy was it a close call.

hand, head . . . . thanks goodness only a wrecked pair of cars

Alexamateo

20th March 2007, 04:17

Here's some video of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNHEMDaNoek

tsarcasm

20th March 2007, 06:30

how about a steel cage around their head, large enough to rotate the head and helmet, linked to the survival cell via. the cockpit rails and the air intake, removable w/a knob for marshals or pyro-bolts in an emergency

wmcot

20th March 2007, 07:39

It was a very scary moment. I didn't realize the full danger at first until seeing the replay. The problem is that you could modify the cars to prevent this close call from happening again, but then some other freak accident would occur requiring more modifications...and on and on.

I'm sure DC didn't have a clue what the outcome of his attempted move would be. Any driver could have done the same or similar thing in a different situation.

Looking back on some of the fatal incidents in F1, the fatalities often occur in accidents that don't look too unusual. At Imola 1994, Senna's accident didn't look any worse than Barrichello's, yet Rubens was only mildly injured while Senna was killed. JV's crash at Melbourne looked terrible as he was launched into the wall and his car disintegrated, while Ralf at Indy 2004 didn't look as bad yet Ralf suffered broken vertebrae while JV was not injured badly. Even the crash that killed Jochen Rindt at Monza didn't look that bad from the cameras.

The problem is that there is no way to protect a driver from a loose piece of suspension, tire, body part, etc. hitting him in just the right, freakish way causing a fatality. To do that, you would have to remove the driver from the car and have them drive remotely like a Playstation game. As long as there are drivers in the cars, there will always be the potential for a fatal accident.

XR8

20th March 2007, 09:39

Whyzars

20th March 2007, 11:22

Anyone want to take a guess at how fast DC's car was going as it shot across Wurz's 'bow'?

ShiftingGears

20th March 2007, 11:48

After looking at the youtube video I think that Wurz could have been a bit smarter as D.C. was nearly all the way alongside him as they contacted as DCs left front wheel made contact with Wurzs right front wheel! Hardly a mistake only by DC!

I'm agreeing with your post here. Wurz gave no space at all to Coulthard, and sometimes giving room, not a lot, but just enough, is part of good racecraft. I was at the track cheering Coulthard because he was right alongside Wurz and I thought he would make it, but then, BAM! Wurz should've conceded that he lost the corner, I reckon. Some of us here are playing the role of armchair critics critisising any attempt at an on-track pass, and its a bit hypocritical, in my view. But MAN was Coulthards car close to his head!

ioan

20th March 2007, 11:55

How the hell was Wurz to expect DC to arrive twice as fast as he should in that corner?
DC only got alongside AW because he went to fast there, I doubt he would have made the corner anyway.

Erki

20th March 2007, 12:45

Reminded me this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW_4QaRRYVw
In this case, Tracy literally ran over Seb as his car was on top of Seb's helmet.

I think in Melbourne 2002, Ralf's car also hit Rubens' helmet. A few years ago at Malaysia, Webber and Fisichella also had a pretty close call.

But still, Pedro Diniz @ Nürburgring 1999 is in a league of his own. :eek:

SteveA

20th March 2007, 13:13

And that, in turn, reminded me of this!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DRXymgWiRcY

BDunnell

20th March 2007, 13:40

sonic_roadhog

20th March 2007, 13:57

After looking at the youtube video I think that Wurz could have been a bit smarter as D.C. was nearly all the way alongside him as they contacted as DCs left front wheel made contact with Wurzs right front wheel! Hardly a mistake only by DC!

Have to say I don't see how you can say this. Watching the replay there is no way on earth Wurz could see him coming, DC was in his blind spot and by the time the RBR could be seen DC was ontop of the Williams.

airshifter

20th March 2007, 14:06

Very close call, and though I like DC I think it was entirely his fault. He came into the corner with so much speed that Wurz probably never had any idea he was trying to make a move. I doubt DC could have made the corner regardless of what Wurz did.

tintop

20th March 2007, 18:35

I'm agreeing with your post here. Wurz gave no space at all to Coulthard, and sometimes giving room, not a lot, but just enough, is part of good racecraft. I was at the track cheering Coulthard because he was right alongside Wurz and I thought he would make it, but then, BAM! Wurz should've conceded that he lost the corner, I reckon. Some of us here are playing the role of armchair critics critisising any attempt at an on-track pass, and its a bit hypocritical, in my view. But MAN was Coulthards car close to his head!

Wurz didn't need to give Coulthard any space in that corner because Coulthard wasn't even close to Wurz when he turned in - Classic late hero move on DC's part.

V12

20th March 2007, 23:03

Must say that I agreed with Martin Brundle's original assessment, namely that Coulthard's pass was basically OK. Then he changed his view when Coulthard held his hands up to being in the wrong.

Someone else will probably remember better than I do, but I recall there being a feature in MotorSport magazine about 10 years ago in which Gordon Murray sketched out his vision of the F1 car of the future. I'm sure this involved an enclosed cockpit. Sadly, I don't have that copy of the magazine in order to find out Murray's reasoning, but the very idea is interesting in itself.

I remember that article - it was actually concerned with what Murray would come up with if there were no rules in F1 (aside from sensible basic dimensions like length and width) and a bubble cockpit would be more aerodynamically efficient so it makes sense in that way as well as from a safety point, but given that they banned closed wheels from F1 in the early 1960s I doubt the FIA will ever let F1 go that route...

Erki

20th March 2007, 23:11

Closed cockpit, closed wheels F1? Done already. ;)

http://www.mariantic.co.uk/lmp/images/908liv.jpg

:s mokin:

BDunnell

21st March 2007, 14:22

I remember that article - it was actually concerned with what Murray would come up with if there were no rules in F1 (aside from sensible basic dimensions like length and width) and a bubble cockpit would be more aerodynamically efficient so it makes sense in that way as well as from a safety point, but given that they banned closed wheels from F1 in the early 1960s I doubt the FIA will ever let F1 go that route...

Thanks!

Of course, if F1 did go down that route, it would immediately be accused of 'pandering to the nanny state', 'destroying the ethos of the sport' or some such — in the latter case, possibly with some justification. Doesn't stop it having been an extremely interesting exercise on Murray's part, though.

XR8

22nd March 2007, 12:24

tintop

22nd March 2007, 13:05

Well if this was Go Karts I would say that Wurz was just too slow in his reactions as all of the young karters that I no have lightning reflexes and would have seen coultard comming, so to be safe I suppose that all these F1 drivers are too old, so a new rule should be introduced on safety grounds that all F1 drivers should retire at the age of 21 so they have the reflexes to get out of the way!

Last time I rode a Kart they didn't have any mirrors, so I doubt a Karter would have seen anybody coming. Big difference in the Kart + F1 closing differences too.

And this had nothing to do with reaction times, it had everything to do with a desperately late pass attempt which would have collected even the Go Kartiest of younger drivers like Lewis or Adrian. :dozey:

XR8

23rd March 2007, 09:58

Tintop you obviosly have not raced a fast kart or witnessed top class kart drivers have you!

Whyzars

23rd March 2007, 11:42

BeansBeansBeans

23rd March 2007, 13:37

IMO Tintop is right on all points. Wurz had no chance to react and was lucky to not lose a hand or his head.

Wurz may have received a blow to the head, but he would not have been decapitated. The bodywork surrounding the cockpit is now built up so highly around the driver that only the top few inches of the helmet is exposed. This was a safety measure brought it to protect the drivers head and neck, and to rule out the possibility of decapitation in this sort of accident. So had Coulthard's car hit Wurz on the head, it's likely he would have survived, and he certainly would not have lost his head.

The only person to lose his head in this incident was Coulthard!

Schultz

23rd March 2007, 14:04

IMO Tintop is right on all points. Wurz had no chance to react and was lucky to not lose a hand or his head.

As to your other comments about drivers being too old or too slow to react I think that you're not serious so will consider it as humour.

Yes that's right. I think in a position like that, given how far back DC was, I think Wurz had every right to become complaicent believing that DC wouldn't make such a crazy move. There must be a whole different level of alertness displayed when a car is closer behind than DC was.

tintop

23rd March 2007, 15:54

Tintop you obviosly have not raced a fast kart or witnessed top class kart drivers have you!

I have raced Karts and I do race fast touring cars. Again, Wurz's reactions or lack there of had nothing to do with the accident, DC's optimism, brain fade did.

ArrowsFA1

23rd March 2007, 16:02

DC's optimism, brain fade did.
As DC said:
"I tried to have a go down the inside of Alex Wurz's car at Turn three, but I was too far back and screwed it up. I went for the pass, but it was over optimistic on my part. The collision was my fault, not Alex's."

PSfan

23rd March 2007, 22:01

As DC said:
"I tried to have a go down the inside of Alex Wurz's car at Turn three, but I was too far back and screwed it up. I went for the pass, but it was over optimistic on my part. The collision was my fault, not Alex's."

Since I have the benefit of PVR i've been watching a lot of this particular incedent (I confess, that the main reason I am watching it as much as I am because it happens right as Speedtv comes out of commercial, but they have a little bit of "Saliva: Ladies and gentlemen" and some dancing pit babes in white just prior to tha accident.)

Anyway no matter how bad I want to believe DC, I just can't give him that much credit for this wreck. I just wonder if he had seen any replays before he made that confession, if he hasn't I can capture it and also include the dancing pit babes... :cheese:

BeansBeansBeans

23rd March 2007, 22:07

Anyway no matter how bad I want to believe DC, I just can't give him that much credit for this wreck. I just wonder if he had seen any replays before he made that confession

I know what you mean. When I first saw it, I thought Wurz was at fault, or that at the very least it was a racing incident. Clearly Coulthard has admitted fault, and although I want to believe him, part of me thinks he just took the blame to avoid a lengthy verbal battle over who was responsible. Anything for a quiet life, as they say.

Marbles

24th March 2007, 03:51

I'm not a big fan of Coulthard but I think this is closer to a racing incident than a massive bone-headed move by one party. Coulthard looked to have control of his car, had not locked his wheels and was capable of actually turning the corner. The only thing he was lacking was racing room. It was certainly optimistic on Coulthard's part but if Wurz had any clue that Coulthard was there they both may have had a chance. In other words, I think Wurz can take some credit for the incident as well.