Change to the running order, again?

[gloomyDAY]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90898

Opinions, please. :D

[6789]

I like it how it is, if they reverse, they need to do it from day one!

[MikeD]

I am all for a change, because I don't like that the leader of the championship keeps being punished with road-sweeping on the first day.

[Karukera]

I would want to agree with Mike D but in all fairness in order to equal things a bit and ease it for some drivers (...) i'd have the championship leader cleaning the road on day one, following the championship standings then reverse order 10->1 after day 1 results, on day 2-3...

If the championship leader loses his position in the standings because of cleaning on day one then he could regain it in the next rally, sort of cycling/shaking the standings.

Not a perfect system but haven't found a better one giving at the same time some (artificial) chance to the newcomers/slower/customer drivers on day one and put the front runners in a straight fight for the win.

By the way, gloomyday, what's your take on it ?

[OldF]

Using equipments similar to these ones, no reverse starting order is needed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsPLrQsAugQ

[Motorsportfun]

Let's have a good battle until Sunday. If we change this rule, we'll know the winner on Friday! :(

[Zeakiwi]

Using equipments similar to these ones, no reverse starting order is needed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsPLrQsAugQ

Some stages might require this equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qoVj-7fh0Y

or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzNzVCQdF6E

[Josti]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90916

I tend to agree with Solbergs view.

[habsalot]

Yes, I also agree the random order or lottery for road positioning would be the best way to determine the running order.

[Jake Stephens]

Solberg is right. Anyway, we've shaken up the car regulations, the rules for starting orders should be given the same treatment.

[BleAivano]

should be reversed from day one.

"If the championship leader loses his position in the standings because of cleaning on day one then he could
regain it in the next rally, sort of cycling/shaking the standings."

i disagree. Perhaps the remaining rallies don't require sweeping? Then what?
No driver should be punished for leading the championship or the rally.

and random position? is that a joke or what? It hardly makes the conditions more equal/fair.

I deffo agree with Citroen team boss.

[Bobcat]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90898

Opinions, please. :D
A change of the running order on the next stage is unfair for Mikko. In Sweden, Mexico, Portugal... it wasn't such a big problem for Quesnel.

[N.O.T]

bobcat can you please post a photo of your face at the end of the season when Citroen wins both manufacturer and drivers titles and Wilson gets nothing as usual apart from the usual humiliation ?? i am willing to pay 5000 euro for such a photo.

[pettersolberg29]

I think the random order is the best option as in some rallies, especially when it rains on gravel, and in general tarmac rallies, it is actually beneficial to start first on the road. So a reversed order would just put the frontrunners at a disadvantage again.

[N.O.T]

the best solution is run in reverse order from day 1 to day 3 that only ensures that the top 3-5 drivers who have chances for the title run EVERY DAY on equal conditions...all other suggestions are not worth thinking.

[Bobcat]

bobcat can you please post a photo of your face at the end of the season when Citroen wins both manufacturer and drivers titles and Wilson gets nothing as usual apart from the usual humiliation ?? i am willing to pay 5000 euro for such a photo.
This is free of charge, specialy for Quesnel's lamers.

[gtimad73]

wouldnt it make more sense to let the lower class's run first i.e s2000 and so on. then all the wrc guy get a good go of it. i dont think reverse order is fair to the lower drivers. loeb and co would always get a good run at it..

[TyPat107]

I like the idea of a lottery. Tactics wouldn't matter if they had to draw for road position on all three days. In theory you would have to drive flat out 100% to either take advantage of your current position because you may be first on the road the next day.

[N.O.T]

This is free of charge, specialy for Quesnel's lamers.

great... i would also like to see your face after latvalas loss by 0.2 sec in jordan...

2773

[Daniel]

I agree 110% with NOT. The idea of a lottery is moronic in the extreme. Why should the outcome of a rally be anymore affected by chance than it already is?

The BEST solution that has ever been proposed to the solution is reversing the order of the top 10/15 OR allowing the drivers to choose their positions though this should only be done if the halfwit Garry Connelly isn't present at the rally.

If driver X is the leader of the championship then why should he be disadvantaged? Why not let the sick dogs as NOT calls them, clear the gravel for the real drivers?

[Daniel]

This is free of charge, specialy for Quesnel's lamers.

Quesnels lamers? How many wins and titles do these lamers have and how many do Malcolms never was and can opener have to their names?

[jcatanho]

wouldnt it make more sense to let the lower class's run first i.e s2000 and so on. then all the wrc guy get a good go of it. i dont think reverse order is fair to the lower drivers. loeb and co would always get a good run at it..

I believe this would be the best solution. To let the SWRC or PWRC cars run just before the WRC cars. This way all WRC pilots would have similar conditions. SWRC or PWRC drivers could run in reverse order or in random order.

[AndyRAC]

Oh dear, this again, and yet again it seems another half baked idea.
Is the WRC the Pinnacle of Rallying? Is it meant to be a serious Motorsport?
Right then, no gimmicks, no lottery, no punishing the leader of the Championship..... If a certain drivers keeps winning, TOUGH!! deal with it, try and beat him fair and square, not because of a ridiculous road order.

Let the Championship leader pick his position for the first day; then the leader at the end of day 1,2,3, etc picks his position. Voila....simples!

[OldF]

The reverse starting order in the beginning of the season, even for the top 10, wouldn’t be complete because e.g. of the top 10 in Sweden only 6 of them started in Mexico.

The SWRC and PWRC drivers are also fighting for a championship so IMO they should also have as equal conditions as possible. And furthermore SWRC and PWRC aren’t in every rally so putting them first on the stages isn’t IMO a solution.

A reverse starting order by the seeded starting list could be a solution but then there could be a situation when the leader of SWRC or PWRC is the 10th or 15th and the second in the championship is 11th or 16th. This would give the second in the championship huge advantage.

In general I’m in favour of some kind of reverse starting order, also in rallies where’s not needed, because by my experience it’s nicer to watch when its getting better and better all time than the best are first and then its getting slower and slower. The first ones acts as a warm ups.

[Zeakiwi]

What about the dust factor on some gravel rallies if there are conditions with no wind ? A championship leader starting 10th on the road could be disadvantaged compared to if they could have started first on the road.
Sandy stages are another terrain where the leading team starting 10th could be disadvantaged compared to earlier runners not having the sand cut up so much.

I suggest 10,9,8,7,6 then 1,2,3,4,5. Might need to be a larger time gap between 6 and 1 so 1 does not catch 6 on longer stages with dust.

[BDunnell]

Oh dear, this again, and yet again it seems another half baked idea.
Is the WRC the Pinnacle of Rallying? Is it meant to be a serious Motorsport?
Right then, no gimmicks, no lottery, no punishing the leader of the Championship..... If a certain drivers keeps winning, TOUGH!! deal with it, try and beat him fair and square, not because of a ridiculous road order.

I completely agree. This has always been, if not a problem, then an issue. For years and years, drivers have been dropping back at the end of a day in order to avoid running first on the road the next day.

[cosmicpanda]

Just balance the calendar so that we have a diversity of conditions so that the running order isn't the advantage it currently is. Fast gravel like Poland and Finland, and asphalt events ought to favour drivers running according to the current system. If at least half of the calendar is made of those events and the rest made of 'normal' gravel events, there should be no complaints.

[gloomyDAY]

By the way, gloomyday, what's your take on it ?Leave it the way it is! I liked the reverse running order, but now I think that the current rules levels out the playing field and allows for closer competition. I was against the change in 2008, but I've warmed up to the system and it works well for me.

[MikeD]

Oh dear, this again, and yet again it seems another half baked idea.
Is the WRC the Pinnacle of Rallying? Is it meant to be a serious Motorsport?
Right then, no gimmicks, no lottery, no punishing the leader of the Championship..... If a certain drivers keeps winning, TOUGH!! deal with it, try and beat him fair and square, not because of a ridiculous road order.

Let the Championship leader pick his position for the first day; then the leader at the end of day 1,2,3, etc picks his position. Voila....simples!

+1

[Sulland]

Why did they change the old system with reverse order on the first 15, or has that been forgotten already ?

[Luis Pacheco]

Give points to the three fastest drivers at the end of the first and second leg and the problem is over.

[N.O.T]

there is no hope for the human race i feel sorry for all of you.....

[TMorel]

A change of the running order on the next stage is unfair
OK, but I don't want to see any posts complaining about Seb or Citroen winning due to "tactics" cause you can't have it both ways.

[A.F.F.]

One day rallyes !!! There, problem solved.

In a stadium. Another problem solved.

[AndyRAC]

One day rallyes !!! There, problem solved.

In a stadium. Another problem solved.

We already have that sport - it's called Rallycross.......... ;)

[raybak]

Just reverse the whole field. Slowest cars run first. WE do this in the tarmac rallies here in Australia.

Ray

[cannyboy]

Give points to the three fastest drivers at the end of the first and second leg and the problem is over.

+1
Suprised they didn't implement this yet - would be a brave driver to give away points at the end of a leg.

[N.O.T]

great idea....so the championship leader who is going to be first on the road on day 1 has no chance to get any points....

there is no hope....keep going.

[gloomyDAY]

great idea....so the championship leader who is going to be first on the road on day 1 has no chance to get any points....

there is no hope....keep going.Well, then, let's see your ideas Mr. Angry Face.

How about contributing to the forum from time to time?

[N.O.T]

check post 15...and then all the rubbish people started posting after it.....no hope i tell you.

[Luis Pacheco]

great idea....so the championship leader who is going to be first on the road on day 1 has no chance to get any points....


Three days, three chances to get points.

[N.O.T]

yes but the 1st day all the others have the chance to get top points apart from the 1st and 2nd...same goes for the leader after day 1 day 2....still hard to understand ??

[gloomyDAY]

Wait, let me get this straight. The following is your opinion on the matter:

the best solution is run in reverse order from day 1 to day 3 that only ensures that the top 3-5 drivers who have chances for the title run EVERY DAY on equal conditions...all other suggestions are not worth thinking.When people disagree with your opinion, then...

...there is no hope for the human race i feel sorry for all of you! :o hplease:

I thought the rule changes were not necessary in 2008, but I really can't complain about the rallies this year. They have been fun, competitive, and I'm actually happy to see other drivers on the top spot for a change.

N.O.T., you should quit watching rallying because it seems to make you angry. There are other sporting alternatives, such as curling, that can satiate your needs.

[xavier]

.... but I really can't complain about the rallies this year.....

Last rally was won by 0.2s. Would JML had stopped for 0.5s less in day 1 he would have won... does that make sense to you?

Do rally need to be decided about how good a team can calculate how much they will lose or gain by running 1st or 3rd on the road?

The current system make a joke of what Rally is: Go flat out (but stay on the road) and at the end see who was the fastest. This should not be the World championship of accountants!

[N.O.T]

N.O.T., you should quit watching rallying because it seems to make you angry. There are other sporting alternatives, such as curling, that can satiate your needs.

stupidity makes me angry...and the fact that although the solution is clear there are still some who must open their mouths no matter what....isn't humanity great ?

[Tomi]

I still think best would be if a few drivers from the front could choose starting position, but rule changes should be done before a new season not in the middle.
The fastest drivers should not get penalised for being fast.

[AndyRAC]

I still think best would be if a few drivers from the front could choose starting position, but rule changes should be done before a new season not in the middle.
The fastest drivers should not get penalised for being fast.

Absolutely!!! Buy that man a drink.......

[cosmicpanda]

Last rally was won by 0.2s. Would JML had stopped for 0.5s less in day 1 he would have won... does that make sense to you?

Do rally need to be decided about how good a team can calculate how much they will lose or gain by running 1st or 3rd on the road?

The current system make a joke of what Rally is: Go flat out (but stay on the road) and at the end see who was the fastest. This should not be the World championship of accountants!

So looking after tyres, fuel, mechanical components of the car, none of that should matter either?

[Daniel]

I agree with Tomi. The rules need to be changed, but not mid season.

[pantealex]

I agree with Tomi. The rules need to be changed, but not mid season.
+1

[Luis Pacheco]

After all is possible to be first on the road and win the first leg.

[N.O.T]

if they let you yes...

[mousti]

There maybe have been exciting rallies this year. But really is it good that they drive like a mad man on the stages and the last 100 metres stopping to get a better running order? I think that's not good and I think also in the good old rallydays such things really never happened or did it ?

[Carlo]

stupidity makes me angry...

I guess that is why you have grown a beard......... Sorry couldn't resist it...........

[tfp]

There maybe have been exciting rallies this year. But really is it good that they drive like a mad man on the stages and the last 100 metres stopping to get a better running order? I think that's not good and I think also in the good old rallydays such things really never happened or did it ?

Sod it, bring back group B, the man with the biggest balls wins:-)

[Rally Hokkaido]

Sod it, bring back group B, the man with the biggest balls wins:-)

Please provide proof or withdraw your slanderous remark about Michelle Mouton! ;-)

[wildsir]

4th run in shakedown in your qualifying run (like f1). Fastest picks their running order for Day 1. Days 2 and 3 running order reversed.

Running order problem... done.

[Hartusvuori]

4th run in shakedown in your qualifying run (like f1). Fastest picks their running order for Day 1. Days 2 and 3 running order reversed.

Running order problem... done.

Latvala was quoted before Sardegna on the starting order issue that what he knows is happening that shakedown indeed will be used for qualifying for Leg 1, then Legs 2 & 3 top drivers in reversed order. But not starting mid season.

[tfp]

Please provide proof or withdraw your slanderous remark about Michelle Mouton! ;-)

Hahaha!

[RS]

Out of touch DR on MaxRally: "Prodrive’s David Richards – the architect of Mini’s return to the world championship – said: “We have seen the closest rallying in the history of the WRC this year and we want to change it: that’s nuts! The drivers may not like it, the leading manufacturers may not like it, but fans love it.”

Do fans really love all the poncing about with running order and meaningless stage times of many crews? I can't be arsed following WRC events beyond the sWRC crews until day three at the moment.

[AndyRAC]

Out of touch DR on MaxRally: "Prodrive’s David Richards – the architect of Mini’s return to the world championship – said: “We have seen the closest rallying in the history of the WRC this year and we want to change it: that’s nuts! The drivers may not like it, the leading manufacturers may not like it, but fans love it.”

Do fans really love all the poncing about with running order and meaningless stage times of many crews? I can't be arsed following WRC events beyond the sWRC crews until day three at the moment.

The reason it's close is because it's artificial. Which fans love it?? It makes the sport mockery.....

[RS]

The reason it's close is because it's artificial. Which fans love it?? It makes the sport mockery.....

It's the same bollox that Wilson trotted out when it was the only way his boys could compete on gravel events.