Chinese Grand Prix 2011

[Dave B]

Tyres:

Same as in the opening two races: soft (yellow) and hard (silver), but no evaluation tyres for practice.


Unlike Malaysia, where we provided the teams with an experimental tyre for free practice, we will give each team one extra set of the usual hard tyres for Friday's first free practice session just as we did in Australia. We saw then that it worked well, allowing the teams to maximise their track time and prepare as thoroughly as possible for the race, so we'd like to give them the same opportunity again

DRS Zone:


The DRS (Drag Reduction System) will be allowed on the back straight of the Shanghai circuit, with the activation zone located before the halfway point of the straight, after Turn 13.

http://cdn.images.autosport.com/editorial/1302684520.jpg



Random fact:


Last year saw the highest number of pit stops in the history of the Chinese Grand Prix. There were a total of 67 stops, an average of 2.79 per driver, at a race that was held in mixed conditions. By way of comparison, the Malaysian Grand Prix that has just taken place had 59 stops


Standings:

1 Sebastian Vettel 50
2 Jenson Button 26
3 Lewis Hamilton 22
4 Mark Webber 22
5 Fernando Alonso 20
6 Felipe Massa 16
7 Nick Heidfeld 15
8 Vitaly Petrov 15
9 Kamui Kobayashi 6
10 Sébastien Buemi 4
11 Adrian Sutil 2
12 Michael Schumacher 2
13 Paul Di Resta 2


1 Red Bull/Renault 72
2 McLaren/Mercedes 48
3 Ferrari 36
4 Renault 30
5 Sauber/Ferrari 6
6 Toro Rosso/Ferrari 4
7 Force India/Mercedes 4
8 Mercedes 2

[Brown, Jon Brow]

One point about DRS. What is the point of having the DRS zone at the only part of the track that produces overtaking anyway? It will make overtaking too easy. Why not have the DRS zone at a place that is slightly more difficult to overtake e.g. the pit straight?

[gloomyDAY]

Just a hurdle on the way to Turkey.

I'll just catch the highlights of this bland GP.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Just a hurdle on the way to Turkey.

I'll just catch the highlights of this bland GP.

China is normally a decent race. A track where passing is possible and often has rain.

[gloomyDAY]

China is normally a decent race. A track where passing is possible and often has rain.Looks like a dry weekend, so that's why I'm not going to watch the entire race. Not that I can anyway because I'll be gone for the entire weekend, but if I were at home I'd rather sleep in for the day.

[Sonic]

One point about DRS. What is the point of having the DRS zone at the only part of the track that produces overtaking anyway? It will make overtaking too easy. Why not have the DRS zone at a place that is slightly more difficult to overtake e.g. the pit straight?

That sir, is an excellent point.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Looks like a dry weekend, so that's why I'm not going to watch the entire race. Not that I can anyway because I'll be gone for the entire weekend, but if I were at home I'd rather sleep in for the day.

I'm guessing that the race is around 1-2am in the States? 8am start in the UK. Perfect reason to get up in the morning :)

[Dave B]

I can reprise my routine of watching practice from the comfort of my bed before chucking some sausages in the oven just in time for qualifying :D

[Garry Walker]

One point about DRS. What is the point of having the DRS zone at the only part of the track that produces overtaking anyway? It will make overtaking too easy. Why not have the DRS zone at a place that is slightly more difficult to overtake e.g. the pit straight?

You are talking to a brick dumb wall (FIA).

[penagate]

I think the DRS zone ought to be the straight between turns 10 and 11.
Turns 9 and 10 spread the cars out a little and the DRS would allow one to catch up to potentially set up a move through 11 and 12, while the overtaken car could counter-attack down the back straight.

[penagate]

Watching FP1 now. Smog is ridiculous. Can't see one end of the back straight from the other.

Formula One fans can watch the 2011 Chinese Grand Prix from Shanghai live online this weekend on Sportsbun.com Formula website. Streaming of the race from the Shanghai International Circuit starts at 7am on Sunday 17 April.

http://www.sportsbun.com/f1-chinese-grand-prix-2011-live-stream-watch-online/

[Dave B]

Apparently in previous years local industry was told to shut down so it looked good on tv, not so this year. Very smoggy though whatever the reason.

[F1boat]

Two seconds gap between RBR and the rest LOL

[christophulus]

Bit closer in practice 2 at least, but the Red Bulls will have this in the bag.

[Sonic]

Apparently in previous years local industry was told to shut down so it looked good on tv, not so this year. Very smoggy though whatever the reason.

It's horrible - imagine breathing that every day.

[Sonic]

Apparently in previous years local industry was told to shut down so it looked good on tv, not so this year. Very smoggy though whatever the reason.

It's horrible - imagine breathing that every day.

[ioan]

Looks like RedBull and Webber were smoking something strong before qualy.

[ioan]

WTH happened to that Renault? This technical problem for Petrov might have destroyed Heidfeld's chances to qualify for Q3.

[ioan]

Well well, first by a mile!

Also impressive Rosberg. :up:

PS: Button's new overall design is .... hmm. Same for Lewis' now that I see it.

[ioan]

Vettel enjoying the moment in his car?!

[N4D13]

La Sexta commentators said that it could be a KERS problem, but maybe he was just trying to avoid people looking inside his car. Red Bull might have something to hide, right?

[ioan]

If I had a KERS problem I would have done a Raikkonen, and jumped out of it! :D

[F1boat]

Great lap from Sebastian Vettel, awesome performance. I have to say that I am seriously impressed. He was always very, very fast, but after his WDC he seems also very calm, always with a cool head, knowing when and how to strike. He was in different planet today.
But I am sad that Webbo was screwed again :(

[Sonic]

Nico!!!!!!!!!!

:d

[ioan]

Great lap from Sebastian Vettel, awesome performance. I have to say that I am seriously impressed. He was always very, very fast, but after his WDC he seems also very calm, always with a cool head, knowing when and how to strike. He was in different planet today.
But I am sad that Webbo was screwed again :(

No one screwed Webber, he was 8 tenths slower than Vettel during their first runs, if he would have been faster than he would have had no problem.
He should have went for the soft tires like everyone else did during the final moments of Q1, he didn't.

[Mia 01]

I´m impressed by Sebs lap, it seems as he was only cruising.

[steveaki13]

Seb's time was amazing 1:33 7 tenths clear of Mclaren who are in a car thats clearly better this weekend than anything else.

Could be another German Waltz in the park.

[Mia 01]

For sure he is in the best car, but even the haters have to admit that he is one of the best drivers in our time, Seb that is.

OK, I could be wrong, bring on the race.

[Sleeper]

Does anyone know if there's been any major changes to the track recently as Vettel now has the qualy lap record, beating Rubens time from 2004?

[ioan]

Does anyone know if there's been any major changes to the track recently as Vettel now has the qualy lap record, beating Rubens time from 2004?

I don't know but I am rather sure that the fastest lap in a F1 car around this track is faster than what Vettel managed today.

[ShiftingGears]

I don't know but I am rather sure that the fastest lap in a F1 car around this track is faster than what Vettel managed today.

No, Vettel actually broke the qualifying record in Shanghai. Barrichello's pole time in '04 was 1:34.012, and Vettels pole time was 1:33.706.

[Dave B]

Problems for McLaren, fuel leak in Hamilton's car and pitlane closes any minute.

[Dave B]

He made it out to the grid with literally seconds to spare

[ioan]

No, Vettel actually broke the qualifying record in Shanghai. Barrichello's pole time in '04 was 1:34.012, and Vettels pole time was 1:33.706.

Just double checked and the fastest lap around Shanghai has been set by a certain Michael Schumacher at 1:32.238, during the 2004 race. I am not sure but maybe they had to qualify with race fuel back in 2004?

[Garry Walker]

Lets hope Button gets ahead of Rapunzel at the start, even better if he nudges Rapunzel off the track.

[ioan]

Bad start by Vettel, he was sleeping or something. The car moved to late.

[AndyL]

Just double checked and the fastest lap around Shanghai has been set by a certain Michael Schumacher at 1:32.238, during the 2004 race. I am not sure but maybe they had to qualify with race fuel back in 2004?

Yes it was race fuel qualifying in 2004. To answer Sleeper's question, I don't think there have been any substantial changes to the track layout - just the odd bits of resurfacing, maybe some changes to kerbs etc (and drain covers!).
I wonder if the long straight is part of the reason Vettel was able to match the qualy record, maximising the benefit of the DRS.

[AndyL]

Bad start by Vettel, he was sleeping or something. The car moved to late.

KERS not working possibly?

[ioan]

Alguersuari tries on 3 wheels!

[ioan]

KERS not working possibly?

Replies show the KERS worked fine, he was simply to slow of the lane. By the time he activated KERS Button was already gone by.

[ioan]

Looks like Vettel can overtake also and will probably lead the race again!

[ioan]

WTF are Renault waiting to bring Heidfeld, and Petrov, in?!

Renault are crappiest when it comes to strategy this season, they still didn't realize that the difference between new and old tires is huge this season.

[DazzlaF1]

Well it took 23 laps before a Hispania got lapped, they're getting better

I'm also amazed at how poor Toro Rosso's race pace is, 9th on the grid yet Buemi's got Kovalainen all over the back of him.

[AndyL]

Vettel on a two-stopper?

(And/or Massa?)

[DazzlaF1]

Amazing this, the new tyres are definitely giving more pace and hurting the 2 stoppers, Rosberg could actually win this

And as I say that, Vettel pits and both McLarens and Rosberg have jumped him.

[AndyL]

This is great. 23 laps to go and I still don't know who's going to win.

[Mark]

Mess up with the fuel from Merc.

[Mark]

I'm liking these tyres!

[DazzlaF1]

Both McLarens absolutely flying, Hamilton could very well win this.

[Mark]

Still a long way to get to Vettel.

[AndyL]

Every time the pit tell Hamilton to conserve his tyres, he puts in a fast lap and starts fighting with someone :D

[Mark]

w00t!

[DazzlaF1]

This is one of the best races in years

[Mark]

Pickems are up!

[ioan]

Well, this is how tire lottery looks like. I know some will still call it racing, but each to his own.

[F1boat]

Crazy race, well done for McLaren, outsmarted RBR... and well, well done for Mark Webber!

[truefan72]

damn!

what a race!

Hamilton, spectacular
Webber, Amazing!

what a race,

I need to take a shower!

Man, thank you Pirelli!

I would love to know the overtaking stats for this race.
There was action all over the place.

[Garry Walker]

Well, this is how tire lottery looks like. I know some will still call it racing, but each to his own.

You must be angry that Rapunzel got overtaken

[DazzlaF1]

Lewis Hamilton and Mark Webber take a bow, a couple of unbelievable drives

[truefan72]

You must be angry that Rapunzel got overtaken

:up:

[Ranger]

What a race!! :D

[ioan]

You must be angry that Rapunzel got overtaken

:rotflmao:
I have a life outside F1, and unlike you I don't hate any driver, so please do not judge me by your own standards! :D

[Garry Walker]

:rotflmao:
I have a life outside F1

I am sure you do, the thing is that rarely have I seen someone as biased as you when it comes to drivers.

[ArrowsFA1]

Lewis Hamilton and Mark Webber take a bow, a couple of unbelievable drives
:up:

[truefan72]

this has probably got to be Hamilton's best race win after Germany 2008. From where he started, dropping back to 5th then charging to take the win
Then Webber, with no Kers putting in an amazing performance.
The only slightly sad part is that Rosberg did not do better. For a moment there, I thought this was going to be his first win.
And he was on the preferred strategy too. I would have been very happy for him if he had won the race

...and then Jenson. hmm, solid 4th but he should have been on the podium

[ioan]

I am sure you do, the thing is that rarely have I seen someone as biased as you when it comes to drivers.

Well I still didn't get to the point of hating them like you do, so I guess I am doing fine by simply liking some of them more than he others! :D

[F1boat]

Well, to a degree ioan is right, it's a bit artificial, but it was fun race and for those who are worried about Red Bull, I have to say that in slower tracks overtaking will be much more difficult and Vettel's qualifying pace again will be important...

[ioan]

this has probably got to be Hamilton's best race win after Germany 2008. From where he started, dropping back to 5th then charging to take the win
Then Webber, with no Kers putting in an amazing performance.
The only slightly sad part is that Rosberg did not do better. For a moment there, I thought this was going to be his first win.
And he was on the preferred strategy too. I would have been very happy for him if he had won the race

...and then Jenson. hmm, solid 4th but he should have been on the podium

No need to be dissappointed for Rosberg, next time the tire roulette might play out better for him given that the Pirelli's do not only behave differently from one compound to the other but also within the same compound from one tire to the other.

[ioan]

Well, to a degree ioan is right, it's a bit artificial, but it was fun race and for those who are worried about Red Bull, I have to say that in slower tracks overtaking will be much more difficult and Vettel's qualifying pace again will be important...

It sure was entertaining to a point where you realize that it isn't really racing anymore.

[Robinho]

Well, this is how tire lottery looks like. I know some will still call it racing, but each to his own.

why is it a lottery? did they all have different tyres available? Did they not know which tyres were which? were they made to use different strastegies? or is it that simply some people doing a better job and that 2 stop and 3 stop strategies were so close on track and that the tyres allow for actual overtaking on the track too so you can use the different strategy

[F1boat]

Well, in all racing series strange rules "for the show" are accepted - WRC, WTCC, BTCC, NASCAR... such are the times. At least it is fun and you sit on the edge. But I can see why some purists are angry...

[Dave B]

I think it just requires more attention and an understanding of the whole weekend's strategy, but I can see how it might confuse a casual viewer.

[ioan]

why is it a lottery? did they all have different tyres available?

Rosbergs prime tires were shot within a handful of laps, do you call that a consistent tire?
Sometimes I even wonder if Pirelli doesn't simply take black tires and randomly paints color codes on them and calls them primes and options.

[ioan]

I think it just requires more attention and an understanding of the whole weekend's strategy, but I can see how it might confuse a casual viewer.

It sure does, however how can you have a strategy with tires that are impossible to predict. The Pirelli's can lose their edge from one lap to the other, they just drop a couple of seconds within a lap. Difficult to have a strategy in cases like this. It's more like let's try and see what happens.

[truefan72]

Rosbergs prime tires were shot within a handful of laps, do you call that a consistent tire?
Sometimes I even wonder if Pirelli doesn't simply take black tires and randomly paints color codes on them and calls them primes and options.

It is funny that I did not hear these arguments or complaints by you in the first two vettel wins.
just sayin

[ioan]

It is funny that I did not hear these arguments or complaints by you in the first two vettel wins.
just sayin

Did any of the first races have 30 overtaking moves due to tire degradation in the last 10 laps? No.
Just sayin...

Objectivity is a funny thing, some have it some don't.
Also some like racing, some like lottery. Again, just sayin... because it's easy to throw words on a forum.

[Hawkmoon]

:rotflmao:
I have a life outside F1, and unlike you I don't hate any driver, so please do not judge me by your own standards! :D

Send Alonso a Christmas card did you?

The tyre situation isn't a lottery though it is a little 'artifical' for wont of a better word. As long as we have cars and circuits that hinder overtaking I'll take a little 'artificial' tyre shennanigans to spice things up. That was an entertaining race.

[DexDexter]

It sure was entertaining to a point where you realize that it isn't really racing anymore.

So don't watch it, the rest of us will continue to enjoy it immensely.

[markabilly]

Rosbergs prime tires were shot within a handful of laps, do you call that a consistent tire?
Sometimes I even wonder if Pirelli doesn't simply take black tires and randomly paints color codes on them and calls them primes and options.

or no paint, do not mark the sets, instead split them up, suffle them like a deck of cards, and never tell anybody which tire is which

[Dave B]

One of Mark's engineers has just told the BBC forum that he believes Button stopped in their garage deliberately to disadvantage Vettel. DC assumed he was joking, but he looked pretty serious to me :eek:

[Hawkmoon]

One of Mark's engineers has just told the BBC forum that he believes Button stopped in their garage deliberately to disadvantage Vettel. DC assumed he was joking, but he looked pretty serious to me :eek:

I wondered at the time what might have happened if Vettel was a little closer to Button and got held up by the Brit's little detour through the Red Bull pit.

[ArrowsFA1]

Cracking race to watch with numerous teams & drivers in the mix at different points, and great drives by Hamilton & Webber but it wasn't really a straight fight at the end. Having good tyres at the right time were key. Obviously strategy, and managing the tyres, is all part of the race but that was far more the factor than a head to head fight between drivers.

In that sense the tweaks & gimmicks this season have worked, certainly today at least. The race made for great tv.

[Hawkmoon]

In that sense the tweaks & gimmicks this season have worked, certainly today at least. The race made for great tv.

Surely "gimmicks" that actually produce entertaining racing are better than a procession? I'd love it if it was a straight fight but the cars and circuits just don't allow it, or rarely do at least. It's no more artificial than the pit passing we used to get in the refuelling days. At least now the passing is actually happening on the circuit.

[ioan]

Send Alonso a Christmas card did you?

Why not, you've got his address?

[ioan]

So don't watch it, the rest of us will continue to enjoy it immensely.

Go ahead shoot me for having a different opinion. :rolleyes:

[ioan]

What with Webber saying he was happy Vettel didn't win? Is he trying to give his loyal fans a support for their conspiracy theories?! :D

[UltimateDanGTR]

That was a fabulous race. The fact that with 15 laps to go any one of about 5 drivers could have won shows that, and it is evident these new rules, gismos and tyres are working well. I was most impressed with the fact that there was passing all over the circuit, not just at the hairpin after the DRS zone. i must also congratulate almost all the drivers for brilliant driving, fantastic racing and some good overtaking.

Some may argue that this new F1 isn't motorsport at it's purest, though I think most will agree it is motorsport at it's most thrilling.

[DexDexter]

Go ahead shoot me for having a different opinion. :rolleyes:

I won't but moaning after one of the most exciting races ever is to me a sign of disinterest towards the sport. Artificial or not, it was exciting. Most sports are artificial to an extent anyway.

[steveaki13]

I personally really enjoyed the race, I though all the drivers coped well with the tyre wear, and tried hard to make either strategy work 2 stops or 3 stops.

Reliability was amazing and if not for a silly mistake by the Toro Rosso team, then we surley would have had 24 cars finish, which hasn't happened that often.

I thought it was positive that we had battling and passing in all area's of the circuit rather than just the DRS zone, and it was about right along the back straight so it wasn't ridiculously easy to breeze past other cars the the wing open.

I think Turkey may also be an interesting race, but we have 3 weeks to build up to that.

I saw on the Red Button, the mechanic saying that he felt "Jenson was cheating plain and simple". I think he must have been bitter or just paranoid, because Jenson clearly disadvantaged himself at the stop, and Vettel ended up ahead of both Mclarens at that point so...

Anyway enjoyed it, lets hope Lewis can stop Vettel winning the title at a canter.

[motormaniac]

What a race! We want see more this kind of F1! Its not just the speed of the cars, but also tactics. Nice battling!

[steveaki13]

What a race! We want see more this kind of F1! Its not just the speed of the cars, but also tactics. Nice battling!

Welcome to the board.

The only thing I worry about is when we have a dull race in Spain or somewhere (it must happen sometime), whether people will be so negative after all the action we have been treated to so far.

[wedge]

You can't take your off for one moment, not even the last third of the race these days. Thank you Pirelli.

[Mark]

It's more like the old days where you have different cars on different strategies and it all comes together at the end of the race. The problem used to be that three stoppers would have to overtake which was impossible, but now it's not :D

[Wasted Talent]

I personally really enjoyed the race, I though all the drivers coped well with the tyre wear, and tried hard to make either strategy work 2 stops or 3 stops.

Reliability was amazing and if not for a silly mistake by the Toro Rosso team, then we surley would have had 24 cars finish, which hasn't happened that often.


I saw on the Red Button, the mechanic saying that he felt "Jenson was cheating plain and simple". I think he must have been bitter or just paranoid, because Jenson clearly disadvantaged himself at the stop, and Vettel ended up ahead of both Mclarens at that point so...



If he was serious he would probably feel at home on this forum!

WT

[steveaki13]

If he was serious he would probably feel at home on this forum!

WT

:D

Yes he would fit right in with some here that like a confrontation and conspiricy theory.

[DavePI2]

Hello from first time poster to this forum. Just wanted to say that was a great race this morning. Glad I woke up in time too watch it. I just became a instant fan of f1 once again.

[DavePI2]

I'm sure if asked button he would say that it wasn't done on purpose. However that team may be living by the new slogan that people in columbus, ohio live by. "If you ain't lyin, you ain't tryin".

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I'll just catch the highlights of this bland GP.

:laugh:

[Mark]

Hello from first time poster to this forum. Just wanted to say that was a great race this morning. Glad I woke up in time too watch it. I just became a instant fan of f1 once again.

Welcome!

[steveaki13]

Just a hurdle on the way to Turkey.

I'll just catch the highlights of this bland GP.


:laugh:

No need to bother didn't miss anything, go straight to Turkey. ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

Surely "gimmicks" that actually produce entertaining racing are better than a procession? I'd love it if it was a straight fight but the cars and circuits just don't allow it, or rarely do at least. It's no more artificial than the pit passing we used to get in the refuelling days. At least now the passing is actually happening on the circuit.
True, but the gimmicks mask the problem you've highlighted - "the cars and circuits just don't allow" head to head racing. How long have people been saying that? It's hardly rocket science and yet for some unknown reason the powers that be seem to prefer gimmicks.

May I just alter your first sentence to, I believe, reflect what's happening: Surely "gimmicks" that actually produce entertaining television are better than a procession?

[I am evil Homer]

Well they have to do them because the engineers have created cars that make it tricky to follow with the amount of disturbed air. Is it perfect? Not by a long shot. Is it better than processional races, and where drivers have to think about looking after tyres and defending positions? On the evidence of the first few races i'd have to say it is.

[motormaniac]

Welcome to the board.

The only thing I worry about is when we have a dull race in Spain or somewhere (it must happen sometime), whether people will be so negative after all the action we have been treated to so far.
U are right, but tendency is good. It might be, that Spain is boring - lets hope not :)

[ArrowsFA1]

Well they have to do them because the engineers have created cars that make it tricky to follow with the amount of disturbed air.
But rather than introducing gimmicks why not address the actual issue which, as you say, is the design of the cars.

DRS is simply the latest in a series of measures which seem to be just tinkering around the edges. For some reason the FIA seem unable, or unwilling, to make fundamental changes which could allow cars to race closely together without the need for painted lines on the circuit and "zones" for overtaking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Formula_One_regulations

[F1boat]

But rather than introducing gimmicks why not address the actual issue which, as you say, is the design of the cars.

DRS is simply the latest in a series of measures which seem to be just tinkering around the edges. For some reason the FIA seem unable, or unwilling, to make fundamental changes which could allow cars to race closely together without the need for painted lines on the circuit and "zones" for overtaking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Formula_One_regulations

I am not sure what they can do. Whatever they do, the master designers will find ways to evade it. Unless you make the rules in a way in which they won't be interested in designing F1 cars anymore. FIA did what they can, creating gimmicks - as many other series have already done...

[Sonic]

For many years I would have been with you on this Arrows, but the genie can not be put back in the bottle.

You could legitimately argue that removing aero, banning electronic aids etc. Is a gimmick designed only to increase overtaking, therefore is just as artificial as DRS.

[markabilly]

Go ahead shoot me for having a different opinion. :rolleyes:

Okay.


http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=646746020329&id=eaf3e93f059080dc211b970c5ecec2e6&url=http%3a%2f%2fi164.photobucket.com%2falbums%2fu 34%2fpowpowbearpow%2fkitten_gun.jpg

[SGWilko]

Okay.


http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=646746020329&id=eaf3e93f059080dc211b970c5ecec2e6&url=http%3a%2f%2fi164.photobucket.com%2falbums%2fu 34%2fpowpowbearpow%2fkitten_gun.jpg

I know what you’re thinking: 'Did he fire six shots, or only five?' Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I’ve kinda lost track myself. But being this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you’ve got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well do ya, punk?

[F1boat]

For many years I would have been with you on this Arrows, but the genie can not be put back in the bottle.

You could legitimately argue that removing aero, banning electronic aids etc. Is a gimmick designed only to increase overtaking, therefore is just as artificial as DRS.

It's true and I am pretty sure that many designers will lose interest in such series... F1 is already very limited with its firm rules...

[Sonic]

^^^ Adrian has made no secret of his desire to do other things.

[gloomyDAY]

Just a hurdle on the way to Turkey.

I'll just catch the highlights of this bland GP.Wow! I never thought being so WRONG would turn out to be such a good thing. :D

[Sonic]

Wow! I never thought being so WRONG would turn out to be such a good thing. :D

:D

[555-04Q2]

For many years I would have been with you on this Arrows, but the genie can not be put back in the bottle.

You could legitimately argue that removing aero, banning electronic aids etc. Is a gimmick designed only to increase overtaking, therefore is just as artificial as DRS.

Wrong! F1 never had fancy electronics or high levels of downforce etc in the "good old days". Comparing the DRS system to lower aero etc is just plain old...nuts. The DRS system is a pathetic attempt to cover up the mess that current F1 cars are in when it comes to overtaking ability. It has been a problem for well over a decade now :down:

What would you prefer: a blow up doll, or the real thing, a woman :?:

[Rollo]

For many years I would have been with you on this Arrows, but the genie can not be put back in the bottle.

You could legitimately argue that removing aero, banning electronic aids etc. Is a gimmick designed only to increase overtaking, therefore is just as artificial as DRS.

Removing the aero entirely and banning electronic aids would force the drivers themselves to rely on their skill and racecraft. I don't see how the DRS implicitly does this. The DRS is specifically set up to give the following car an advantage which the leading car does not have.

[Sonic]

Removing the aero entirely and banning electronic aids would force the drivers themselves to rely on their skill and racecraft. I don't see how the DRS implicitly does this. The DRS is specifically set up to give the following car an advantage which the leading car does not have.

Are you implying they have no skill and race craft with the aero?

Of course DRS gives the following car an advantage - it is an artificial tow after all.

Look, in an ideal world I would be right there in your corner - ban the wings, no multi way diff's, redesign the tracks to ensure close racing conditions etc etc. But taking a reality pill for a second; it - will - never - happen. Why? Money. Plain and simple.

The tracks would need massive redesigns, as would the whole support formula structure - it wouldn't do to have a GP2 with slicks and wings hugely faster than F1.

To 555; but how far do you take it? When were the good old days? Do we stick the engine in the front? Or permit car swaps once more? Or even go back to drawing lots fro grid spots?

We all know F1 has been great before (otherwise why do we follow it) but you can't just recycle the same rules and hope the engineers forget everything they know, F1 can never be as it was. But I'm fine with that. On the evidence of last weekend we could be on the cusp of an era that in twenty years time we look back on and say 'Wow. Wasn't F1 great - wish they'd bring back *insert banned tech here*.

[ArrowsFA1]

Nico Rosberg reckons Formula 1's 'Drag Reduction System' could be up there as the best rule in the sport's history because of the way it has helped spice up the racing in 2011.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90876

[Sonic]

^^^ knew he was my fave for a reason :D

[555-04Q2]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90876

Pirelli have contributed to more overtakes than the DRS system, especially in China.

[ShiftingGears]

One thing I found myself wandering throughout a lot of the race was why Alonso kept trying to pass Schumacher on the outside of the hairpin so many times, trying to undercut him on the exit. I just can't see how it was a better move than being on the inside, and therefore having track position despite having slightly less grip. We saw with Webber coming through the field that it was clearly possible to successfully pass on the inside.

[ioan]

One thing I found myself wandering throughout a lot of the race was why Alonso kept trying to pass Schumacher on the outside of the hairpin so many times, trying to undercut him on the exit. I just can't see how it was a better move than being on the inside, and therefore having track position despite having slightly less grip. We saw with Webber coming through the field that it was clearly possible to successfully pass on the inside.

The Mercedes is fast enough not to give FA to many chances to get ahead on the straight and MS is not going to leave the door open on the inside, so Alonso needed to do something else and with a bit of luck he 's got it done.

[ioan]

Pirelli have contributed to more overtakes than the DRS system, especially in China.

Absolutely, due to the tire degradation we were getting overtaking moves all over the track (from drivers who know how to do it).
Even Hamilton's move on Vettel was due to the different tire degradation levels as DRS was obviously not helping Hamilton enough.