Biggest fattest Donkey of the race

[donKey jote]

Alonso :s

[Dave B]

Alonso and Petrov.

[Hawkmoon]

Alonso for sure but Petrov's flying act was pretty donkeyish. I like the way he was still trying to steer the car with an unattached steering wheel!

[shurik]

Petrov had ridiculous tactics today, apparently Renault hired a pigeons to do the job. His driving wasn't that bad to be a donkey

[CNR]

mark webber commercial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be3-J9XtJCw

this was played a lot during commercial breaks

[F1boat]

Alonso...

[N4D13]

I can think of a few:

- DRS systems for working either extremely well -ultra easy passing- or not at all -Webber, Alonso, maybe somebody else I don't remember-.
- Strategists.
- Rain!

[MrJan]

Alonso, what a turnip. A great driver like him shouldn't be making simple mistakes like that.

Petrov can't be given donkey status because that was ****ing awesome :D

[Robinho]

Alonso, with an honourable mention for Petrov, although he probably soiled himself when he landed and the steering wheel came off in his hand

[Daniel]

I agree with Jan yeo about petrov :D

[Rollo]

Alonso was pressing "crouch" and "jump" on his DRS controller but then pressed "punch", when he should have been pressing "glide" and "swish".

[christophulus]

Petrov can't be given donkey status because that was ****ing awesome :D

Agreed, bit over-ambitious coming back on at full speed :)

Alonso wins it though.

[Koz]

Petrov

DRS for failing at the end there.

And Alonso for letting that stupid ass DRS get into his head. Stay cool baby, have an ice cream :)

[Sonic]

Petrov can't be given donkey status because that was ****ing awesome :D

True dat! That is gonna make an awesome desktop picture.

[gm99]

Mercedes GP - they were absolutely nowhere today.

[Daniel]

I still don't see the big issue with what Alonso did, it was pure racing incident and the tiniest of touches.

[Ari]

Helmut Marko for stating in an interview after the race that both Red Bulls KERS worked fine during the race to the astonishment of the commentators.

[ioan]

Alonso for sure but Petrov's flying act was pretty donkeyish. I like the way he was still trying to steer the car with an unattached steering wheel!

The steering column was broken, nothing funny about it.

[N4D13]

I still don't see the big issue with what Alonso did, it was pure racing incident and the tiniest of touches.
It wasn't so tiny for me!

Anyway, I believe it's harsh to give it to Alonso. His DRS wasn't working - does anyone doubt that he'd have passed Hamilton right away with it? - and he needed to overtake Lewis right then. He got too close, Hamilton defended his position a bit and Fernando hit Lewis. That's the kind of stuff that happens in every race, it's just that we're not used to see Alonso doing this kind of cr@p.

If it had to go to a driver -I already made my non-driver picks a few posts before-, I'd rather give it to Petrov. Renault screwed him with the strategy, but he was absolutely nowhere, and then he went off and kept his feet down on the grass. I'm glad nothing happened, but it could have been a huge accident.

[Daniel]

The steering column was broke, nothing funny about it.

Agree. It's natural for a driver to try to steer when the wheels are off or the steering is broken

fBVuvIPe0tc

[ioan]

It certainly is funny and even stupid looking but that's a reflex.

[Daniel]

It certainly is funny and even stupid looking but that's a reflex.


The steering column was broken, nothing funny about it.


Which is it Ioan! :p

[ioan]

Which is it Ioan! :p

Funny and stupid looking. ;)

certainly not funny for the one trying hard to save his arse.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

I can think of a few:

- DRS systems for working either extremely well -ultra easy passing- or not at all -Webber, Alonso, maybe somebody else I don't remember-.


Well, if that's the case, it seems that some drivers can make it work, some cannot. It's not the fault of the device.

[TMorel]

I gave Webber the benefit of the doubt when he hit Heikki in Valencia so I guess I have to do the same for Alonso. Although I certainly can't see how people on other forums are blaming it all on Lewis.

[Daniel]

I gave Webber the benefit of the doubt when he hit Heikki in Valencia so I guess I have to do the same for Alonso. Although I certainly can't see how people on other forums are blaming it all on Lewis.

Tbh I don't see how anyone can ever give Webber the benefit of the doubt for that, he drove clear into the back of Heikki, Alonso just touched Hamilton.

[TMorel]

I don't see the amount of impact being a variable in how much blame they get, they both hit the car in front. Anyway, I thought at the time there was a question over the RBR front wing with strange flexing when right up close - something that happened again later in the season - so if Mark was distracted by that and ran into Heikki then Alonso gets the same let off with the possibility of flaky DRS just occupying even a small part of his brain.

[Daniel]

The wing distracted mark?

[ioan]

Well, if that's the case, it seems that some drivers can make it work, some cannot. It's not the fault of the device.

It is the fault of the device not of the driver, the driver only pushes a button or a pedal, not much they can do wrong.

[ioan]

I gave Webber the benefit of the doubt when he hit Heikki in Valencia so I guess I have to do the same for Alonso. Although I certainly can't see how people on other forums are blaming it all on Lewis.

Other people being Alonso fanatics, that's why it happens.

[steveaki13]

Alonso and Petrov.

Petrov though also wins best aeroplane of the day.

[N4D13]

Well, if that's the case, it seems that some drivers can make it work, some cannot. It's not the fault of the device.
If the DRS on Webber and Alonso's cars isn't working, it's the fault of the device. Neither of them could use it to overtake because it wasn't working.

[Garry Walker]

Well, if that's the case, it seems that some drivers can make it work, some cannot. It's not the fault of the device.

LOL.

Donkey - Stewards for hating racing and being morons.

[ioan]

If the DRS on Webber and Alonso's cars isn't working, it's the fault of the device. Neither of them could use it to overtake because it wasn't working.

Webber's DRS was working, he (and Vettel) had problems with KERS.

[N4D13]

Webber's DRS was working, he (and Vettel) had problems with KERS.
Well, I believe having seen him trying to overtake someone in the main straight without DRS, but I won't argue with you about that.

So I'll have to withdraw part of my criticism towards DRS - I still believe that it made overtaking too easy, though.

[ioan]

Well, I believe having seen him trying to overtake someone in the main straight without DRS, but I won't argue with you about that.

So I'll have to withdraw part of my criticism towards DRS - I still believe that it made overtaking too easy, though.

Webber's DRS worked both against Massa and Heidfeld. Otherwise is hard to see how did he get that speed advantage over the Ferrari (who also had KERS available) on the straight.

[Garry Walker]

Webber's DRS was working, he (and Vettel) had problems with KERS.

They were not allowed to use KERS during the race and Webber said that before the race anyway. They meant to use it for start only.

[TMorel]

There were a few times when Webber was within 1second but the DRS wasn't deployed, Brundle spotted this and questioned if it was an intermittent low voltage issue as other times, as Ioan rightly points out, Mark did successfully use it.

[wedge]

Petrov - flooring the throttle on the asphalt run-off. The grass transition sent him airborne and the impact damaged the car.

[ShiftingGears]

LOL.

Donkey - Stewards for hating racing and being morons.

:up:

[Daniel]

Stewards :up:

[wedge]

Vettel/RBR - surely there's a code for "don't press KERS button"

[ioan]

Vettel/RBR - surely there's a code for "don't press KERS button"

I am amazed to what lengths people would go to find reasons to call a team and driver donkeys! LOL

Kudos to Vettel and RBR for not hinding behind the finger and using stupid coded messages tht fans would not understand.

[52Paddy]

Nico Rosberg: really bad showing. He was nowhere at a track where he has a good history.

[keysersoze]

Can't believe anyone would give it Vitaly (especially considering his blinding start). It's lunacy for the run-off area to NOT be level. That he could launch himself that much reflects poorly on the track management.

As others have mentioned, Petrov's strategy seemed poor. Other than Koba, VP pitted latest of all the front-runners (he actually led a lap), and looked as if he was on a two-stopper. His 2nd stop, IIRC with about 26 laps to go, was to change to the whites, while his 3rd stop was to go back to the yellows. Odd. Perhaps they were gambling that he could go the distance, then figured they couldn't, hence the change to back to the yellows.

[djparky]

the Williams cars- ran slowly and then not at all- pathetic

and the stewards for punishing Alonso & Ham- it was a racing incident

[Malbec]

Can't believe anyone would give it Vitaly (especially considering his blinding start). It's lunacy for the run-off area to NOT be level. That he could launch himself that much reflects poorly on the track management.

There is a large rain gutter there which is where Petrov launched himself off. It would be lunacy NOT to have that gutter there given the quantities of rain that can fall in such a short space of time in Malaysia. I couldn't believe Petrov kept his foot on the throttle all the way through the run off area the way he did. I hope he's ok though.

[UltimateDanGTR]

The Stewards
Alonso
Petrov

In that order.

[Sonic]

Nico Rosberg: really bad showing. He was nowhere at a track where he has a good history.

*Charges to Nico's defence.*

The CAR was nowhere. Neither Nico or Mick could do anything with it.

[Sleeper]

LOL.

Donkey - Stewards for hating racing and being morons.
Quoted for truth.

[wedge]

I am amazed to what lengths people would go to find reasons to call a team and driver donkeys! LOL

Kudos to Vettel and RBR for not hinding behind the finger and using stupid coded messages tht fans would not understand.

LOL! "Fernando is quicker than you" - was that intended for retarded Tifosi or Massa's thick skull?

RBR were all to happy to apply exhaust decals in pre-season testing last year; RBR mechanics all too happy to stand in front of the rear diffuser even though there are photographers roaming across the paddock and whole circuit.

RBR are quite happy to play games before races to conceal any advantage they can retain for as long as possible and yet announce to the whole world they have a KERS problem mid-race.

[markabilly]

With the exceptions of the first one half of a lap and a couple of crashes, I vote the whole race to be one boring donkey.

And I thought NASCAR was the series that needed to have crashes to keep people paying attention, but i guess now there are two series.

Well, boys keep those wrecks happenning so the sponsors will get their money's worth in advertizing for their products, with enough people tuning in...

[longisland]

The stwards. It's a racing incident and both drivers lost position after the contact. Williams for not finishing the race twice.

[Big Ben]

Can't believe anyone would give it Vitaly (especially considering his blinding start). It's lunacy for the run-off area to NOT be level. That he could launch himself that much reflects poorly on the track management.


yeaaah... right! because what we need is runoffs that are just as good as the track itself.

[Big Ben]

My vote goes to DRS and all the people who invented it. I'm not the nostalgic type but I wonder if I'll ever see races like the ones I used to enjoy around 2000 AD... i'm getting tired of so much 'show'

[Daniel]

My vote goes to DRS and all the people who invented it. I'm not the nostalgic type but I wonder if I'll ever see races like the ones I used to enjoy around 2000 AD... i'm getting tired of so much 'show'

I agree, I hate watching qualifying and knowing that the drivers might finish in a different order to the one they qualified in!!!!!! It's just terrible isn't it!!!!!

[Big Ben]

I agree, I hate watching qualifying and knowing that the drivers might finish in a different order to the one they qualified in!!!!!! It's just terrible isn't it!!!!!

you're glad the man who got the pole didn't win aren't you? Silly me, I actually want to see passes based on competence and results that reflect the quality of the driver and the car.

[Daniel]

you're glad the man who got the pole didn't win aren't you? Silly me, I actually want to see passes based on competence and results that reflect the quality of the driver and the car.

and that's what we saw. Previously we had rules which meant that the drivers usually finished in the order they qualified in. That doesn't reward the quality of the driver and car over a proper race distance.

[keysersoze]

yeaaah... right! because what we need is runoffs that are just as good as the track itself.

Well, since the run-off is usually grass and "kitty litter" I doubt my suggestion would lead to that. :rolleyes:

[keysersoze]

There is a large rain gutter there which is where Petrov launched himself off. It would be lunacy NOT to have that gutter there given the quantities of rain that can fall in such a short space of time in Malaysia. I couldn't believe Petrov kept his foot on the throttle all the way through the run off area the way he did. I hope he's ok though.

So, it's impossible to grade the run-off area that has drainage that isn't capable of launching a car?

[MrJan]

So, it's impossible to grade the run-off area that has drainage that isn't capable of launching a car?

Maybe we should have infltable buffers on the side of the track, so that no bad can ever happen, ever.

That drain was well out of the way, the only reason it became dangerous was because a driver ran wide but kept his foot in and tried to rejoin doing 100mph+, you can'tr reasonably litigate for stuff like that without completely sanitising the sport.

[Big Ben]

Well, since the run-off is usually grass and "kitty litter" I doubt my suggestion would lead to that. :rolleyes:

I can't blame the track or the managers of the track because one driver ran wide, left the track and damaged his car. If all run offs would be like that we wouldn't need the not so bright stewards messing with the results so much.

[ioan]

LOL! "Fernando is quicker than you" - was that intended for retarded Tifosi or Massa's thick skull?

Comparing apples and bananas again, eh?! And still you dare calling other, unnamed, people retarded? :rotflmao:

[ioan]

My vote goes to DRS and all the people who invented it. I'm not the nostalgic type but I wonder if I'll ever see races like the ones I used to enjoy around 2000 AD... i'm getting tired of so much 'show'

No chance we get back to real racing, that does not attract enough uninterested occasional viewers.

[ioan]

So, it's impossible to grade the run-off area that has drainage that isn't capable of launching a car?

:up:
They could cover drainage and make it safe.

[ioan]

Maybe we should have infltable buffers on the side of the track, so that no bad can ever happen, ever.

Yeah, something like that.
What if Petrov's car was catapulted back on track in the path of another car or worse right on top of it and killed another driver that might have been one of your relatives, would you be so full of crap and defying about safety?!

Just think about the state Kubica is right now, more than 2 months after his horrible accident. If more safety can achieved than I am all for it as I do not watch motorsports for crash and similar crap like some seem to do.

[Daniel]

So, it's impossible to grade the run-off area that has drainage that isn't capable of launching a car?

Do you realise how much rain that gutter has to cope with? Considering the gutters didn't cope the year it just kept on raining.....

[Daniel]

Yeah, something like that.
What if Petrov's car was catapulted back on track in the path of another car or worse right on top of it and killed another driver that might have been one of your relatives, would you be so full of crap and defying about safety?!

Just think about the state Kubica is right now, more than 2 months after his horrible accident. If more safety can achieved than I am all for it as I do not watch motorsports for crash and similar crap like some seem to do.

Perhaps they should look at penalising reckless drivers? I'm sorry but that was purely Petrov's fault and no one elses.

[MrJan]

Yeah, something like that.
What if Petrov's car was catapulted back on track in the path of another car or worse right on top of it and killed another driver that might have been one of your relatives, would you be so full of crap and defying about safety?!

Just think about the state Kubica is right now, more than 2 months after his horrible accident. If more safety can achieved than I am all for it as I do not watch motorsports for crash and similar crap like some seem to do.

You want to know how to make motorsport safe? Don't bother in the first place. No matter what you do people will still find fault with it, until we end up at the point of not even bothering.

Raising the Kubica rallying crash is interesting, because it was in no way as horrific as his roll in Canada yet the outcome was far worse. The difference is that F1 is inherently safer than rallying (purely because it's easier to fence off 5km of track than it is 300km of stages)

Edit: Oh and +1 to Daniel's point, Petrov made that far worse than it should have been.

[Daniel]

You want to know how to make motorsport safe? Don't bother in the first place. No matter what you do people will still find fault with it, until we end up at the point of not even bothering.

Raising the Kubica rallying crash is interesting, because it was in no way as horrific as his roll in Canada yet the outcome was far worse. The difference is that F1 is inherently safer than rallying (purely because it's easier to fence off 5km of track than it is 300km of stages)

:up:

People who try and attempt to react to every crash and try and make some ill thought out statement about making things safer tend to actually suggest things that would make the circuit LESS safe.

Petrov made the choice to go flying, it was his fault alone.

[Bagwan]

Perhaps they should look at penalising reckless drivers? I'm sorry but that was purely Petrov's fault and no one elses.

Petrov got on the marbles and went way wide .
Lots of them do that .
And , there are lots of marbles , especially at the end , with two laps to go .

You've got a rookie , desperately trying to keep it together and finish .

Have we seen his telemetry , so as to establish the fact that he kept his foot in it ?

And , why would we be having a drain capable of launching a car , in a place where drivers are likely to go wide if they get too deep on the marbles ?
Don't you think that's dangerous ?
I would bet it will be changed before next year's race .


These are just a few things to consider before casting Petrov as "wreckless" .

[Daniel]

Petrov got on the marbles and went way wide .
Lots of them do that .
And , there are lots of marbles , especially at the end , with two laps to go .

You've got a rookie , desperately trying to keep it together and finish .

Have we seen his telemetry , so as to establish the fact that he kept his foot in it ?

And , why would we be having a drain capable of launching a car , in a place where drivers are likely to go wide if they get too deep on the marbles ?
Don't you think that's dangerous ?
I would bet it will be changed before next year's race .

The ability of the track to drain the water is marginal at best, lets not **** it up any further.
These are just a few things to consider before casting Petrov as "wreckless" .

If you went off the road in your car and there was a ramp with which to launch your car would you not slow down?

[Bagwan]

If you went off the road in your car and there was a ramp with which to launch your car would you not slow down?

Why , yes , I probably would , if I could see it , firstly , and because I would expect it to be more likely that there would be such obstacles off road in the real world .

In order to keep it straight across the grass , he would have to feather the throttle , as an F1 engine has little or no spinning momentum .
Lift off completely , or put the foot down , and you spin if you're on the grass .

So , technically , he was doing pretty well with the lawn-mowing , until , of course , he hit the ramp .

If not for the ramp , he would likely have finished .

And , I ask again , don't you think it's dangerous to have a "ramp" there , on the edge of an F1 track , at the exit of a corner ?

[Daniel]

Why , yes , I probably would , if I could see it , firstly , and because I would expect it to be more likely that there would be such obstacles off road in the real world .

In order to keep it straight across the grass , he would have to feather the throttle , as an F1 engine has little or no spinning momentum .
Lift off completely , or put the foot down , and you spin if you're on the grass .

So , technically , he was doing pretty well with the lawn-mowing , until , of course , he hit the ramp .

If not for the ramp , he would likely have finished .

And , I ask again , don't you think it's dangerous to have a "ramp" there , on the edge of an F1 track , at the exit of a corner ?

Perhaps if you can't see that there's no ramp then slow down like everyone else does when they go across grass.

Also I think a lot of things are dangerous, your point being?

[MrJan]

If you watch the in car it's also clear that he makes a clear decision to straighten the wheel a bit and make a dive for the tarmac run off.

It wasn't ideal but we can't just sanitise the whole sport. Shall we fit speed limiters to keep the speeds down to make things safer? Shall we stick to 4 pots to limit power? The fact that he walked away from such a landing shows how safe these cars are, likwise Webber going upside down and Kubica at Montreal a few years back. Safety is of hihgh importance but when you're trying to make the track and run off as smooth as a billiard table you have to question how far is too far

[Malbec]

It wasn't ideal but we can't just sanitise the whole sport. Shall we fit speed limiters to keep the speeds down to make things safer? Shall we stick to 4 pots to limit power? The fact that he walked away from such a landing shows how safe these cars are, likwise Webber going upside down and Kubica at Montreal a few years back. Safety is of hihgh importance but when you're trying to make the track and run off as smooth as a billiard table you have to question how far is too far

Or get rid of those nasty oldfashioned tracks like Spa, Suzuka, Interlagos and Monaco where safety is seriously compromised. That would make the sport so much better wouldn't it!

[ioan]

Perhaps they should look at penalising reckless drivers? I'm sorry but that was purely Petrov's fault and no one elses.

And they might also want to hang any driver that makes a mistake, this way they will make place for new drivers every other week! :rolleyes:
And also you never made any mistakes.

[ioan]

If you watch the in car it's also clear that he makes a clear decision to straighten the wheel a bit and make a dive for the tarmac run off.

Can you blame him for not wanting to drive around in the grass with a car that has 5cm ground clearance?


It wasn't ideal but we can't just sanitise the whole sport.

Covering a drainage on a F1 track run off area is not sanitizing the sport, it's just making a good job.

[Bagwan]

Perhaps if you can't see that there's no ramp then slow down like everyone else does when they go across grass.

Also I think a lot of things are dangerous, your point being?

My point , as if you didn't get it , is that nobody , not even a rookie , should expect a "ramp" at the edge of an F1 track .

Clear now ?

You're a bit evasive on the question , but I guess I am to take it that you do think it's dangerous placement for a "ramp" .

Another question :
Do you think he would have made it back onto the track surface safely , had there not been a "ramp" ?

[Daniel]

Or get rid of those nasty oldfashioned tracks like Spa, Suzuka, Interlagos and Monaco where safety is seriously compromised. That would make the sport so much better wouldn't it!

If there's one thing that i would do myself it'd be to enclose the wheels and cabin. Basically the cars would be like LMP cars. I simply don't see the attachment to having the drivers head out there in the air but at the same time so protected that he can't see anything. I also think that racing would be more fun if the cars could actually touch each other without losing an endplate......

[Daniel]

I guess I am to take it that you do think it's dangerous placement for a "ramp" .

and I'm guessing that you feel that a toga party is no place for a turtle?

[IceWizard]

Alonso made a mistake, but no doubt an easy one to make in the tow at high speed. Donkey of the day has to be Petrov. Surely common sense says that one should ease off the throttle when rally crossing.

[Daniel]

Alonso made a mistake, but no doubt an easy one to make in the tow at high speed. Donkey of the day has to be Petrov. Surely common sense says that one should ease off the throttle when rally crossing.

No no, apparently it's Tilke's fault!

[Sonic]

Alonso made a mistake, but no doubt an easy one to make in the tow at high speed. Donkey of the day has to be Petrov. Surely common sense says that one should ease off the throttle when rally crossing.

It's easy to criticise after the event. Bo had about half a sec to choose a route back to the track - he got it wrong.

[ioan]

Alonso made a mistake, but no doubt an easy one to make in the tow at high speed. Donkey of the day has to be Petrov. Surely common sense says that one should ease off the throttle when rally crossing.

Hindsight is such a wonderful privilege, isn't it?!

So Petrov is a donkey for not knowing that there is a ditch just outside the track limits and Alonso is a hero for running into another car on a plain track. Objectivity became a very rare virtue nowadays.

[BDunnell]

Yeah, something like that.
What if Petrov's car was catapulted back on track in the path of another car or worse right on top of it and killed another driver that might have been one of your relatives, would you be so full of crap and defying about safety?!

Just think about the state Kubica is right now, more than 2 months after his horrible accident. If more safety can achieved than I am all for it as I do not watch motorsports for crash and similar crap like some seem to do.

I know from previous discussions that you place me in that bracket, which is entirely untrue, so your opinion on this subject might not be that trustworthy.

[BDunnell]

Perhaps they should look at penalising reckless drivers? I'm sorry but that was purely Petrov's fault and no one elses.

Remember one thing, Daniel. Massa was injured by a freak accident. Massa was, at that time, ioan's favourite driver. Suddenly, ioan professed to be concerned about safety, despite the fact that he had been completely in agreement with Max Mosley's view of Jackie Stewart as being a 'certified halfwit', even though Stewart did more for Grand Prix safety than probably any other individual and deserves great respect for his courageous stance. Ever since then, every risk to a driver's safety has always been the fault of the irresponsible authorities, as far as ioan is concerned. I do not believe I have posted anything factually inaccurate here.

[Bagwan]

and I'm guessing that you feel that a toga party is no place for a turtle?

You can't answer a simple question ?

[ioan]

Remember one thing, Daniel. Massa was injured by a freak accident. Massa was, at that time, ioan's favourite driver. Suddenly, ioan professed to be concerned about safety, despite the fact that he had been completely in agreement with Max Mosley's view of Jackie Stewart as being a 'certified halfwit', even though Stewart did more for Grand Prix safety than probably any other individual and deserves great respect for his courageous stance. Ever since then, every risk to a driver's safety has always been the fault of the irresponsible authorities, as far as ioan is concerned. I do not believe I have posted anything factually inaccurate here.

Oh well, it looks like suddenly ioan became the subject of eh thread.
Or is that simply that you got nothing else left but attacking the poster instead of defending our point on the incident? Fine by me! :D

[Daniel]

You can't answer a simple question ?

Your question is irrelevant. It's like me walking into a wall and hurting myself and then blaming the wall.

[ioan]

You can't answer a simple question ?

Depends if he's got an answer or not! In this case he doesn't have one.

[Daniel]

Depends if he's got an answer or not! In this case he doesn't have one.

I do, but it's irrelevant

[ioan]

Your question is irrelevant. It's like me walking into a wall and hurting myself and then blaming the wall.

Let's hope it doesn't happen often.

[Daniel]

Let's hope it doesn't happen often.

Tends not to because I don't walk into walls because it tends to hurt.

[ioan]

I do, but it's irrelevant

Sure, good strategy. If you got no answer than the question is irrelevant, or even the whole subjects becomes irrelevant.

[BDunnell]

Oh well, it looks like suddenly ioan became the subject of eh thread.
Or is that simply that you got nothing else left but attacking the poster instead of defending our point on the incident? Fine by me! :D

I merely felt that others should be aware of the origins of your opinions on such issues. And, as I said, nowhere did I write anything that I believe to be factually inaccurate. If you want a contribution from me on the subject, it was clearly Petrov's own fault, and it is impossible to remove every element of danger from the sport. No doubt you will again cite this as an example of my desire to see accidents resulting in injury or death, which was a view I found offensive when you expressed it before, and remains utterly inaccurate now.

[Daniel]

Sure, good strategy. If you got no answer than the question is irrelevant, or even the whole subjects becomes irrelevant.

I didn't say I had no answer. I said I had one, but it was irrelevant.

[BDunnell]

Sure, good strategy. If you got no answer than the question is irrelevant, or even the whole subjects becomes irrelevant.

The answer was quite clear, and I fail to understand how anyone could consider it otherwise, except to try and make a point.

[Daniel]

The answer was quite clear, and I fail to understand how anyone could consider it otherwise, except to try and make a point.

They want me to say the obvious, that if not for the rain gutter that Petrov's idiocy wouldn't have resulted in him going for a flight. The fact of the matter is that at a track like Sepang you need big gullies to carry all of that water away or else EVERYONE on the track goes off. That said it doesn't often rain in Malaysia now does it? When it does rain it's only a bit of drizzle as well :rolleyes:

[ioan]

They want me to say the obvious, that if not for the rain gutter that Petrov's idiocy wouldn't have resulted in him going for a flight. The fact of the matter is that at a track like Sepang you need big gullies to carry all of that water away or else EVERYONE on the track goes off. That said it doesn't often rain in Malaysia now does it? When it does rain it's only a bit of drizzle as well :rolleyes:

The fact is that the rain gutter was running from the track down and unless Petrov managed to rejoin the track before getting to the gutter he would have had to run over it at some point. But I guess that makes him a donkey because some people need it to be so.

[BDunnell]

The fact is that the rain gutter was running from the track down and unless Petrov managed to rejoin the track before getting to the gutter he would have had to run over it at some point. But I guess that makes him a donkey because some people need it to be so.

Personally, I don't much like calling any driver a 'donkey', on the grounds that they are talented as racing drivers in ways we can only dream of, but this doesn't mean to say that all criticism should be off-limits.

[ioan]

Personally, I don't much like calling any driver a 'donkey', on the grounds that they are talented as racing drivers in ways we can only dream of, but this doesn't mean to say that all criticism should be off-limits.

I agree as long as the criticism is based on common sense, which in this thread got lost somewhere along the way.

Good night all, I've got to catch some sleep now.

[Daniel]

The fact is that the rain gutter was running from the track down and unless Petrov managed to rejoin the track before getting to the gutter he would have had to run over it at some point. But I guess that makes him a donkey because some people need it to be so.

Seriously dude. I have seen a lot of stupid stuff in F1 but never seen a driver power their way from tarmac to grass to tarmac at that speed. It was always going to end in tears rain gutter or not.

[BDunnell]

I agree as long as the criticism is based on common sense, which in this thread got lost somewhere along the way.

I, too, agree. But, in my opinion, 'common sense' does not include any favouritism towards one team or driver affecting one's opinions. Why not just enjoy the sport? It's far more fun.

[Bagwan]

They want me to say the obvious, that if not for the rain gutter that Petrov's idiocy wouldn't have resulted in him going for a flight. The fact of the matter is that at a track like Sepang you need big gullies to carry all of that water away or else EVERYONE on the track goes off. That said it doesn't often rain in Malaysia now does it? When it does rain it's only a bit of drizzle as well :rolleyes:

Thank-you , Daniel , for answering my question .

BDunnell was right about me trying to make a point .

And , there was also a point to using the word "ramp" , instead of "rain gutter" in my posts .

A "rain gutter" need not be a "ramp" .

I have to admit to being a bit too subtle in my inference , but that was the point of putting this the way I did .

I am quite sure there are ways to deal with the water without the inclusion of what could be described as a "ramp" just after a corner , and am also quite sure it will be changed before next year .

[MrJan]

The fact is that the rain gutter was running from the track down and unless Petrov managed to rejoin the track before getting to the gutter he would have had to run over it at some point. But I guess that makes him a donkey because some people need it to be so.

Try reading the thread again. I blame Petrov for the mistake but he's not a donkey, that stunt was far too impressive to be considered a donkey move. I don't even think it was that bad a mistake, he probably couldn't see the bump/gully/ramp (whatever you want to call it) at that speed, however the attempt to run wide and keep his foot in was a stupid rookie error and, as Daniel said, would probably have ended badly regardless of how smooth the runoff area was. Have you tried driving on grass? It's slippery stuff, going from nice tarmac to grass with 800bhp at your disposal isn't exactly peaches & cream.

[Bagwan]

This is what Vitaly said :
'I think I picked up just a little bit of rubber, and as soon as you take one piece of rubber, you have a little bit of understeer. I think I had this little bit of understeer and then I went wider and wider. You should be able to come back to the track there, so I just kept going – but then I hit the big bump.'

It is "slippery stuff" , and Petrov kept it straight , thinking that they would have designed the track to allow a car which is wide , to return to the track .

So , he obviously couldn't see it , if he didn't slow down . So , that shouldn't make him either a stupid rookie or a donkey .

And , he kept it straight , tarmac to grass , so that should show he has skill .

And he didn't expect a ramp where drivers would be likely to be coming back on after skating on the marbles .
That's logical .

Maybe he could be called a little naive , to just expect safe conditions to be provided .
Or , maybe he could be called stupid for not walking the track , paying special attention to features off track .

[Mia 01]

Weaving is very dangerous when the other driver trying to overtake, remeber Rubens and MS last year.

[Dave B]

Weaving is very dangerous when the other driver trying to overtake, remeber Rubens and MS last year.
Yes I remember, but why are you comparing apples with oranges? Squeezing somebody towards a wall when they're alongside you isn't the same as weaving to prevent them passing.

Hamilton broke the rules and that's that - he himself has no complaints and provided the stewards are consistent (stop laughing at the back) I have no problems with blocking being sanctioned.

Returning to a point you made earlier, do you now withdraw your accusation that Hamilton may have brake-tested Alonso?

[Sonic]

Huge difference between the two Mia. Mick deliberately and dangerous crowded Rubens off the defined race track.

[Mia 01]

Yes I remember, but why are you comparing apples with oranges? Squeezing somebody towards a wall when they're alongside you isn't the same as weaving to prevent them passing.

Hamilton broke the rules and that's that - he himself has no complaints and provided the stewards are consistent (stop laughing at the back) I have no problems with blocking being sanctioned.

Returning to a point you made earlier, do you now withdraw your accusation that Hamilton may have brake-tested Alonso?

OK, even if it looked so my proof is veak.

[Daniel]

Thank-you , Daniel , for answering my question .

BDunnell was right about me trying to make a point .

And , there was also a point to using the word "ramp" , instead of "rain gutter" in my posts .

A "rain gutter" need not be a "ramp" .

I have to admit to being a bit too subtle in my inference , but that was the point of putting this the way I did .

I am quite sure there are ways to deal with the water without the inclusion of what could be described as a "ramp" just after a corner , and am also quite sure it will be changed before next year .

I'm sorry, but not having been to Malaysia I doubt you understand just how much rain they get there and just what is required to get that water off roads and provide safe conditions.

[ioan]

I'm sorry, but not having been to Malaysia I doubt you understand just how much rain they get there and just what is required to get that water off roads and provide safe conditions.

Who said he's never bean to Malaysia?
Or did you just made it up in order to try to make a point that isn't there?!

Question is why isn't the gutter level with the terrain and covered?! After that it can be wide and deep enough or the Thames to flow through it and first of all very safe in case someone makes a mistakes and rans out of the track.

[Dave B]

I've been to Malaysia. I've seen a motorway submerged within an hour. No drain in the world world cope with what they sometimes get.

Ps 747 landing in KL in the middle of a thunderstorm was proper squeaky bum time.

[Bagwan]

I'm sorry, but not having been to Malaysia I doubt you understand just how much rain they get there and just what is required to get that water off roads and provide safe conditions.

How could I not understand the magnitude of such rain when you've been underlining it for your last few posts ?

Ioan has it roughly right here , albeit with a little exaggeration thrown in for effect :
"Question is why isn't the gutter level with the terrain and covered?! After that it can be wide and deep enough or the Thames to flow through it and first of all very safe in case someone makes a mistakes and rans out of the track."

Those drains could have been made safer , and I am betting they will be made so before next year's race .

If it rains the way it can there , during the race , they will stop it anyway .

So , now you can see that I do understand that the rains are formidable , so you needn't bother implying I don't again .
(Just trying to save you some time)

Drainage grating can be made to be very strong and roughly the same grip as the grass around it , flat to the terrain , so nobody gets hurt .

[airshifter]

If a driver backs off when he goes off track, and returns to the track under control rather than trying the rally car stay in the gas on the grass version, he doesn't get hurt either.

The next thing you know people will want air bag barriers after the run off areas and kitty litter. Because some driver might want to keep his foot planted in it and not have his wing ripped off when he hits a barrier. :)

[Roamy]

why are you guys picking on alonso - he was racing very hard and schumilton was in front of him.

[Big Ben]

why are you guys picking on alonso - he was racing very hard and schumilton was in front of him.

They are perfectionist. If they can write on forums without making any grammar or spelling mistakes :rolleyes: than drivers shouldn't make any mistakes either :p :

[Dave B]

why are you guys picking on alonso - he was racing very hard and schumilton was in front of him.
Who's picking on Alonso? Even those of us who can't stand the guy find the punishment strange given that it was a racing incident which already cost him an extra pitstop.

[keysersoze]

I actually admire Vitaly even more for keeping his foot in it. The dude clearly has stones. His front corner explodes in practice and pitches him into a lurid spin--that could've spooked a normal driver into showing a bit more discretion for the rest of the weekend. But no, he proves over and again that he's got the determination to succeed.

I think if he gets out of the throttle there he still hits the ditch and damages his car.

[Rollo]

I made this the background on Windows at work...
http://thatwillbuffout.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/funny-car-photos-problem-suspension.gif
... it's starting to freak out my boss.

[Dave B]

^ Certainly beats my avatar! :p

[Garry Walker]

Who's picking on Alonso? Even those of us who can't stand the guy find the punishment strange given that it was a racing incident which already cost him an extra pitstop.

Even I was opposed to a penalty for Alonso and we all know how fond of him I am.