Donkey of the race? Australia 2011

[Daniel]

Rubens for putting nico out

[Robinho]

Rubens, rookie error when the car was flying and he was looking like making up for his error in qually. poor show

[F1boat]

Rubens and also Heidfeld for the qualy yesterday....

[markabilly]

poor rubens.....while others (like Nick, who started in the back and stayed there and Button who started much higher, put on a good show for a while, then slid out towards the back) did much the same or worse, his was the most obvious for all to see...

and then there was Pirrelli, who made it interesting, but as to quality F1 tires???

Well, it is good that nobody else was competeting there or all those cars on Pirrelli would have been batttling for last

[AndyL]

formula1.com for the broken live timing again.

[MrJan]

Is there a choice other than Rubens?

[Ranger]

Rubens takes it, methinks.

Heidfeld was very poor against someone who was out-pointed 5-fold by Kubica last year (not taking anything away from Petrov).

Webber was pretty poor this weekend, he needs to really turn up in Malaysia and onwards if he isn't to be flogged this year. Then again, he surprised me last year after a poor season start.

That 'DRS' didn't do too much did it? :/ Maybe in Malaysia with its two 800m long straights it will work better.

[F1boat]

poor rubens.....while others (like Nick, who started in the back and stayed there and Button who started much higher, put on a good show for a while, then slid out towards the back) did much the same or worse, his was the most obvious for all to see...

and then there was Pirrelli, who made it interesting, but as to quality F1 tires???

Well, it is good that nobody else was competeting there or all those cars on Pirrelli would have been batttling for last

I am happy with Pirelli. I prefer more interesting races, you know...

[N4D13]

After Rubens having overtaken two cars at the same time, it's difficult for me to name him Donkey of the race. If that were to be the case, he would at least deserve the title of Overtaking of the race as well.

[DexDexter]

Rubens, a special mention to Mark Webber who had a race winning car yet finished over half a minute behind the winner.


poor rubens.....while others (like Nick, who started in the back and stayed there and Button who started much higher, put on a good show for a while, then slid out towards the back) did much the same or worse, his was the most obvious for all to see...

and then there was Pirrelli, who made it interesting, but as to quality F1 tires???

Well, it is good that nobody else was competeting there or all those cars on Pirrelli would have been batttling for last

You do realise that Pirelli's tires are what they are because Bernie and co. wanted so. Nothing to do with competition. :rolleyes:

[Koz]

Rubens.

And Button. Had he not been a little ****er and let Massa pass ham he'd be on the podium. Ah well.

Honourable mentions to DRS.

Edit: NK too.

[Robinho]

poor rubens.....while others (like Nick, who started in the back and stayed there and Button who started much higher, put on a good show for a while, then slid out towards the back) did much the same or worse, his was the most obvious for all to see...

and then there was Pirrelli, who made it interesting, but as to quality F1 tires???

Well, it is good that nobody else was competeting there or all those cars on Pirrelli would have been batttling for last

c'mon, we all know that if Pirelli were competing they wouldn't have constructed a tyre that wears like it does, they have been specifically requested to do this and it works. i'm not saying they could beat the bridgestones in a straight fight, but we can't rail on them for fulfilling the brief

[truefan72]

Rubens by a country mile

half donkey for Mclaren for not immediatly giving the position back and with a quicker car simply overtaking massa and Alonso or waiting for their 3 stop strategy to loose out to Button's 2 stopper

[Dave B]

Button had a mare, should've let Massa back through immediately but let Ferrari mug him.

Rubens didn't look like the most experienced man on track today.

D'Ambrosia got in the way a couple of times but I don't think he was bad enough to be a donkey.

[Sonic]

It's obviously Rubens. I mean it is kind of endearing that after 307 odd starts he's still ambitious enough to try, but COME ON Ruby, that was never on!

It does seem Rubens is often over aggressive after the long winter break - we saw it in the Brawn year too.

Honorable mention to Webber - poor drive - simple as that.

[truefan72]

formula1.com for the broken live timing again.

yes that too for both the race and qualy

[steveaki13]

I am happy with Pirelli. I prefer more interesting races, you know...

You've got some radical ideas "prefering interesting races" :p

[Daniel]

You've got some radical ideas "prefering interesting races" :p

Whilst I agree, I think the Pirelli's have the potential to go beyond interesting.

[steveaki13]

I think Barrichello takes it, a very overly ambious move on Nico.

Shame we didn't see move of Rubens early on, he was 22nd on lap 1 but lap 6 he was 14th. He must have been taking no prisoners.

Other donkey mentions.

Button Should have got past Massa before the move, then drove on and got his Pen.

Webber Again struggled at his home race and was slipping backwards all race. Over 30 seconds behind Vettel as well.

Heidfeld A poor drive by an experienced and reasonable driver to be a lap down on your teamate is bad.

[jas123f1]

Rubens *``RGRRR What happen i your head ???

[UltimateDanGTR]

Obvious choice is Rubens.

Mind you, I didn't even notice if Heidfeld had turned up or not...

[steveaki13]

Rubens is very up and down, sometimes he looks like an experienced driver who is one of the best in the world.

i.e - Drives for Jordan and Stewart well above his car, then at Ferrari on the certain days he beat Schumi he looked invincible.

Then other moments he looks like he is in his 7th GP, rather than 307th.

i.e- Ferrari days when he was 6th in car that could lap the field, and again today after good overtaking, just rams Rosberg off the road.

He really is unpredictable.

[Allyc85]

Rubens Barrichello by far, though he says he wasnt trying to pass and was defending his position!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90288

[steveaki13]

Well from onboard we couldn't see Kamui so I have to assume he was attacking Rubens round the outside then, but never the less he was obviously still not paying enough attention to the situation and still has to take the blame for misjudging the situation.

[jens]

Perhaps new tyres and adjustments have at least initially really increased driver's input and some have managed to adapt better than others. Those gaps will likely close down, but for now... especially in top teams there were some huge gaps between team-mates. Heidfeld was completely miserable, Webber and Massa a bit better, but still very underwhelming. Only Button would have got close without a drive through.

Barrichello has been overambitious all weekend, it seems. He really wants to achieve something in that Williams, which now has his development input.

[truefan72]

It was Rubens to me
and to make matters worse, he is blaming his tyres for the collision, claiming he wasn't trying to pass Rosberg
...yeah right :down:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90288

[markabilly]

dont know but I will undonkey button and give the awrad to the team for screwing up that......

And let us not forget pirrelli.................

[Roamy]

RB was horrible

[ioan]

Heidfeld was completely miserable...

And no doubt his car was in great shape?! :rolleyes:

[tintop]

RB, Nick was one of the dogs of quali and an uninspired choice to replace Robert, but he seemed to have a good start and then had to nurse a crap car throughout the race.

[Daniel]

Massa for accidently pulling over to allow Alonso through just after Jenson had made his illegal pass. As it is the first race of the season and we know Ferrari allow their drivers to race until there is a clear points leader, I shall make the call it was a mistake by Felipe. Rubens also for his clumsy move on Nico. :)

Whilst I hate team orders, they're now legal and that move was extremely clever because ...... well it just was!!!

[christophulus]

Whilst I hate team orders, they're now legal and that move was extremely clever because ...... well it just was!!!

Very smart from Ferrari, perhaps their new strategy team was worth the money?

But yes, Barrichello hands down. Rookie mistake in quali and a stupid move on Rosberg. He was flying up until that point and could've had a decent points haul.

[Daniel]

If it was team orders it would have been clever but Ferrari and their fans have always maintained that Felipe is free to race Fernando until it is clear later in a season who needs support. This was only the first race so team orders was not an option. :)

Well it was a strange situation. If the situation had been reversed would Alonso have let Massa by to cause McLaren/Button more pain? Who knows :)

[jens]

And no doubt his car was in great shape?! :rolleyes:

That's true, but I like to evaluate the whole weekend. I don't think he was ready to match Petrov this time. Maybe next.

[Daniel]

That's true, but I like to evaluate the whole weekend. I don't think he was ready to match Petrov this time. Maybe next.

What are you doing on this forum then? The point of this forum is to jump to rash conclusions about a driver, team or car from one race.

I still laugh when I think of how people wrote McRae off in the WRC forum in the same year where he went on to win a few races and be in the running for the title in the last round before "that crash" at which point they were saying how great he was :rotflmao:

[truefan72]

Whilst I hate team orders, they're now legal and that move was extremely clever because ...... well it just was!!!

and to make matters worse, it should Ferrari to be clever and quick to think on their feet, meanwhile Mclaren froze up in a "my pet goat" moment and screwed their driver out of a better result. also Button should have given the position up himself. He is a smart guy and should have known better. Even if it meant having both Alonso and Massa pass him, he would have been in a much better position to attack and recover well.

[wedge]

Massa went from hero to zero. Brilliant job to defend Button but even if he allegedly pulled over for Alonso, Massa ended up going backwards.

[Storm]

For a man on his 300 odd GP start, that was a very very optimistic (just idiotic) move by Rubens.

[Bezza]

Donkey - Massa.

Just so so slow and seems to going backwards as a driver. I hope the crash in 2009 hasn't caused this, but he doesn't seem to be able to get anywhere near Alonso.

He would have been better ignoring team orders in Germany in 2010 and just getting the victory. Because I can't see him ever winning another race.

[Mark]

Agreed, it's a great shame, back in 2008 it looked like he was headed for greatness, but has gone backwards ever since.

[markabilly]

Donkey - Massa.

Just so so slow and seems to going backwards as a driver. I hope the crash in 2009 hasn't caused this, but he doesn't seem to be able to get anywhere near Alonso.

He would have been better ignoring team orders in Germany in 2010 and just getting the victory. Because I can't see him ever winning another race.


That may well be true.

Not sure why he would have been all that bothered about letting Fred pass to screw up Button in this race, but it seemed that his race went straight into the toilet after that.

However, that seems to be the case with drivers who find themselves not being the favorite. Look at Webber right now, and look at Alonso when he was at mac, or hamilton's behavior in competing against Alonso when they were on the same team.

[truefan72]

Agreed, it's a great shame, back in 2008 it looked like he was headed for greatness, but has gone backwards ever since.

It was easy then when he had the best car on the grid and if he got pole he could drive away to victory.
The lack of his skill clearly showed when he was asked to defend his position or make passes to climb up the charts. All too often he failed.

In malaysia he had the pole, lost it to kimi after pitstops and spun out by himself while in 2nd position
In Canada, both his WDC rivals were out of the race but he could only manage a 5th place 43 seconds behind Kubica
In Silverstone he was horrible,
In Germany,Hamilton had to pit after the SC and still caught him and passed him,
In Spa, he was nowhere to be found while Kimi and Hamilton were in an epic battle,
In Japan he had a poor start and then proceeded to ram into Hamilton,

and this was the year folks say he "deserved the championship"
The fact is, he is a slightly above average to decent driver in a very good car, who still needs his engineer to talk him through practically every lap of every GP

[PSfan]

Rubens would be an easy choice on account to his brain fade in qualifying with a repeat performance during the race...
Nick also deserves recognition for not being able to take a podium capable car into q2 and thus I see a relation between the damage that slowed his car in the race with the qualifying position he achieved.

But clearly the winner of DONKEY OF THE RACE earned the recognition partly due to his post race comments... Button I am truly in awe of your donkey-ness...


First he calls Massa slow, guess he forgot his little hissy fit radio call to the pits questioning why Messa was pulling away from him on the straights... (BTW, while a meaningless stat... fastest lap of the race - yah Massa got it)

Then he accuses Massa of blocking... strong words not backed up by anything I saw re-watching the race.

Claims he was ahead prior to going off track - Once again if he would have watched a replay of the incident he might have kept his yap shut on this, but clearly being told by the FIA via drive through penalty that he wasn't ahead wasn't enough for Button.

The kicker of course is accusing Ferrari of pitting Massa to ensure a drive through. Really? Button's dumb enough to suggest this? OK, if it was so obvious (and the overhead views I saw where pretty conclusive) that Ferrari would alter their strategy just so Button would be forced to take a drive through, why wasn't the position given back before Massa pitted? also explain to me How come if this was why Ferrari pitted Massa, why would they have pitted Alonso first?

[Ari]

I think we should wait a little longer before planting the boots into Webber.

He wasn't given the same car as Vettel this weekend. A defective chassis killed Webbers weekend before it started. This confirmed by Marko.

VERY unprofessional start to the season by RBR.

[Rollo]

I think we should wait a little longer before planting the boots into Webber.

He wasn't given the same car as Vettel this weekend. A defective chassis killed Webbers weekend before it started. This confirmed by Marko.

VERY unprofessional start to the season by RBR.

How long is the "bad luck" card effective for? 3 years? 5 years?

In the meantime, Alonso who was behind Webber at Minardi has become World Champion and his team mate Vettel has become World Champion. Vettel won a GP in the season before Webber did and in a worse car.

I used to think that Webber never had a race win in him. That was proven wrong, but I still don't think that he's in the same class of driver as Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton.

[SGWilko]

A defective chassis killed Webbers weekend before it started. This confirmed by Marko.

VERY unprofessional start to the season by RBR.

Interesting - does one have a link?

[Garry Walker]

In Canada, both his WDC rivals were out of the race but he could only manage a 5th place 43 seconds behind Kubica
In Silverstone he was horrible,
In Germany,Hamilton had to pit after the SC and still caught him and passed him,
In Spa, he was nowhere to be found while Kimi and Hamilton were in an epic battle,
In Japan he had a poor start and then proceeded to ram into Hamilton,


At canada, he was screwed by pitstops and was forced to do an extra pitstop because in the first pitstop they were unable to fuel him.
Silvestone - agreed
hockhenheim- so? Was he the only driver to be passed by Hamilton in that race?
At spa he was only a few seconds behind Hamilton all the way through the race.
Japan - so a bad start makes him an idiot at once? I should do a list of what dumb things Hamilton did in 2008

[555-04Q2]

Rubens for sure. That was atttempted move was optimistic even for the likes of a rookie, let alone a 300+ GP veteran!!!

[SGWilko]

Rubens for sure. That was atttempted move was optimistic even for the likes of a rookie, let alone a 300+ GP veteran!!!

What if it WAS the tyres;

If Rubens was merely braking according to the grip level of his tyres and Nico to his more worn tyres this would be the result - we had an inkling that the tyres would be 5+ secs different in different stages, so maybe there is truth in his reason for the crash.......?

[Robinho]

At canada, he was screwed by pitstops and was forced to do an extra pitstop because in the first pitstop they were unable to fuel him.
Silvestone - agreed
hockhenheim- so? Was he the only driver to be passed by Hamilton in that race?
At spa he was only a few seconds behind Hamilton all the way through the race.
Japan - so a bad start makes him an idiot at once? I should do a list of what dumb things Hamilton did in 2008

i think the point is that was supposed to be Massa's best year. everything else has been worse, at that wasn't SO special to start with.

i like the kid, i really do, but he's just not got "IT" whatever "IT" is. there are plenty of others who have now, and as good a car, and he'll never outshine them all

[TMorel]

Has anyone found anything more about Rubens wonky DRS system and how it was programmed for the wrong sector and the FIA had to remap it, have seen the story mentioned on several unreliable sites. Just wondering what the deal was and if it could have any impact on his donkeyness.

[ioan]

At canada, he was screwed by pitstops and was forced to do an extra pitstop because in the first pitstop they were unable to fuel him.
Silvestone - agreed
hockhenheim- so? Was he the only driver to be passed by Hamilton in that race?
At spa he was only a few seconds behind Hamilton all the way through the race.
Japan - so a bad start makes him an idiot at once? I should do a list of what dumb things Hamilton did in 2008

Cheers to that!
And wasn't the bad start in Japan due by any chance to Hamilton almost taking off half the field in the first corner?

[ioan]

i think the point is that was supposed to be Massa's best year. everything else has been worse, at that wasn't SO special to start with.

i like the kid, i really do, but he's just not got "IT" whatever "IT" is. there are plenty of others who have now, and as good a car, and he'll never outshine them all

Too many big words in one post. You might need a hat to eat sometimes later.

[airshifter]

Though I agree Felipe seems to have lost some spark, I couldn't consider him donkey of the race. The last I checked he was ahead of both Button and Alonso before Button making a shorter track so he could pass. I'm sure Felipe realized he would soon be ordered to move for Fernando anyway, so he let him pass before any order was made over the radio in an attempt to make Button pay a higher penalty.

I'm sure Felipe now has a standing "support Alonso no matter what" order, so it's not as if he has ever been playing on a level field. As for missing out on a WDC by one point, it's better than anyone other than Hamilton did that season so I can't find any reason to fault him for that.

[555-04Q2]

What if it WAS the tyres;

If Rubens was merely braking according to the grip level of his tyres and Nico to his more worn tyres this would be the result - we had an inkling that the tyres would be 5+ secs different in different stages, so maybe there is truth in his reason for the crash.......?

You must be drunk and mad (to quote Jeremy Clarkson). Rubens came from about 2 cars lengths back and tried to take a gap that was not there. He is a seasoned F1 driver, there are no excuses. He knew what grip he had from the corners before the incident. He fu@ked up, period.

[SGWilko]

You must be drunk and mad (to quote Jeremy Clarkson). Rubens came from about 2 cars lengths back and tried to take a gap that was not there. He is a seasoned F1 driver, there are no excuses. He knew what grip he had from the corners before the incident. He fu@ked up, period.

Alright, calm down! It was only a 'what if'.......

[Ari]

Interesting - does one have a link?

http://www.yallaf1.com/2011/03/27/red-bull-admit-webber-chassis-problem/

[Ari]

How long is the "bad luck" card effective for? 3 years? 5 years?

In the meantime, Alonso who was behind Webber at Minardi has become World Champion and his team mate Vettel has become World Champion. Vettel won a GP in the season before Webber did and in a worse car.

I used to think that Webber never had a race win in him. That was proven wrong, but I still don't think that he's in the same class of driver as Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton.

Or we could just ignore the facts and slander at will? Slander a bloke who let most of the championship last year even when his own team was trying to reel him in.

Some people.

[Rollo]

Or we could just ignore the facts and slander at will? Slander a bloke who let most of the championship last year even when his own team was trying to reel him in.

Some people.

Slander requires that a false statement be made. Whilst I have said something negative it certainly isn't false.

As to the opinion I stated: statements of opinion aren't actionable and therefore also not slander.

[Ari]

Slander requires that a false statement be made. Whilst I have said something negative it certainly isn't false.

As to the opinion I stated: statements of opinion aren't actionable and therefore also not slander.

Agreed. Slander was the wrong word to use.

I won't go into much more detail because, as you said, it's your opinion. I just think it's a bit rough to roll out 5 years worth of bad luck because he had a crappy race in a car which, by the teams own admission, wasn't up to scratch.

[Rollo]

Crappy Race Car? Somehow, I don't think so.

If you look through Qualifying:
Q1 Vettel 1:25.296 - Webber 1:25.900 - difference = 0.604s
Q2 Vettel 1:24.090 - Webber 1:24.658 - difference = 0.568s
Q3 Vettel 1:23.529 - Webber 1:24.395 - difference = 0.866s

I think that it's fair to say that based on qualifying, that Vettel on average was 0.67933s per lap quicker. Over the course of 58 laps using this assumption you should get about a 39 second difference. What was the final difference? 38.171s - Sounds like a fair estimate to me.

Maybe if Webber's car had blown up or something you could accuse the car of failing, but the point is that he's finished pretty well much where the qualifying results should put him. Could it be that Vettel is simply a better driver than Webber and better at extracting the performance from the car? Probably.

So far Vettel has outscored Webber in 3 full seasons from 2008-2010 and if you compare the portion of 2007 in which Vettel arrived as a full time driver, he outscored Webber then as well.
I don't think that it's unreasonable to suggest that Vettel is a better driver, especially with the weight of almost 3½ years of evidence behind it.

[Ari]

Crappy Race Car? Somehow, I don't think so.

If you look through Qualifying:
Q1 Vettel 1:25.296 - Webber 1:25.900 - difference = 0.604s
Q2 Vettel 1:24.090 - Webber 1:24.658 - difference = 0.568s
Q3 Vettel 1:23.529 - Webber 1:24.395 - difference = 0.866s

I think that it's fair to say that based on qualifying, that Vettel on average was 0.67933s per lap quicker. Over the course of 58 laps using this assumption you should get about a 39 second difference. What was the final difference? 38.171s - Sounds like a fair estimate to me.

Maybe if Webber's car had blown up or something you could accuse the car of failing, but the point is that he's finished pretty well much where the qualifying results should put him. Could it be that Vettel is simply a better driver than Webber and better at extracting the performance from the car? Probably.

So far Vettel has outscored Webber in 3 full seasons from 2008-2010 and if you compare the portion of 2007 in which Vettel arrived as a full time driver, he outscored Webber then as well.
I don't think that it's unreasonable to suggest that Vettel is a better driver, especially with the weight of almost 3½ years of evidence behind it.


*facepalm* Not this again.

I've never said Vettel is not a better driver. Imo Vettel is a better qualifying driver, however I feel Webber a better racer. Vettel is fantastic until he needs to overtake..... and then the jury is out there.

As for Quali in Australia, are you really going to use those numbers to forge an argument after the team boss Marko has come out and said there are issues with Webbers car which has, no doubt, massively effected his weekend? As you said, about .6 between them and if you add up the race laps you get the same margin. For mine that either shows that Vettel is .6 faster (which is completely different to all of last year) or Webber had an issue with the car which was costing him about that much time.

You are talking to me from a sample data of 1 race. I am talking to you from a sample data of 1 season. Which is more likely?

What 2010 has proven is that there is little more than a bees thingy between the two of them. The majority of the time Vettel was a tenth or two qucker in quali which usually meant he ran from the front on Sunday.... and in such a close season, that was just about enough to get the job done on Sunday when it mattered.

Puting up numbers of Q1, Q2 and Q3 from Sundays GP is a completely and utterly pointless exercise as it proves absolutely NOTHING. Webber did NOT have the same equipment as Vettel this weekend completed. Marko has very publicly come out and advised there are issues with Webbers chassis which has caused issues, not the least with type wear.

Fwiw if they did have the same equipment I could see Webber on the podium however I still think Vettel was well ahead with that blistering quali lap and would have owned the race anyway.

[Ari]

Btw.... at Red Bull in the same equipment, excepting front wings and the like, we have the following.

2009
seb 84 points
web 69.5 points

2010
seb 256 points
web 242 points

YES Seb has finished ahead of Mark, however it's hardly been a domination? Certainly on those points Seb has been the better driver. No doubt.

My whole arguement here, however, is that puting the boots into Webber after one race when the team has come out and said he had a defective chassis is laughable. Let's just give it a little more time shall we?

[Rollo]

You are talking to me from a sample data of 1 race. I am talking to you from a sample data of 1 season. Which is more likely?


2010 - Vettel 256pts - Webber 242pts
2009 - Vettel 84pts - Webber 69.5pts
2008 - Vettel 35pts - Webber 21pts

Which is more likely? Given that not only did Vettel win a GP ahead of Webber (and in a Toro Rosso) and even when he joined the same team he still won a GP ahead of Webber.

[Ari]

2010 - Vettel 256pts - Webber 242pts
2009 - Vettel 84pts - Webber 69.5pts
2008 - Vettel 35pts - Webber 21pts

Which is more likely? Given that not only did Vettel win a GP ahead of Webber (and in a Toro Rosso) and even when he joined the same team he still won a GP ahead of Webber.

Vettel won ahead of Webber in the Toro Rosso in a massively rain effected race.

Ironically, if not for Vettel slamming his Toro Rosso up the backside of Webber in Japan, Webber may have beaten him to that mantle!

As for Vettel beating Webber to the win in China in 2009, that just means he got the first win. Well done, congratulations. ???

The points results show Vettel has been a better driver and earned more points. No doubt at all. I've never once argued the opposite of that.

All I am arguing is that the six tenths we have seen between them this weekend is NOT the norm. It's an irregular behavior which has since been rationalised by Marko coming out an saying Webber was driving a car with a defective/problematic chassis.

If Vettel has, in the off-season, honestly found half a second a lap on Webber in the same car then I will eat my hat. One race does NOT represent a sample size.

[555-04Q2]

Alright, calm down! It was only a 'what if'.......

:laugh: I am now :)

[Garry Walker]

http://www.yallaf1.com/2011/03/27/red-bull-admit-webber-chassis-problem/
I am sure Red Bull are very happy with Webbers performance. Their Golden Boy was not threatened, watch out for a failure on Webbos car next race. Then it will be sure they Webbo is behind Golden Boy in the standings and "the Precious" can be officially named as the nr.1 driver (not that unofficially he isnt that already)

[jens]

Last year Vettel had three car failures from the race lead as opposed to Webber's zero and I didn't see you, Garry, suggesting that RBR was favouring Webber? I think luck is just balancing out now with Webber having some trouble as well.

Double standards at its very best. May I remind you that glorious 2002 season, when Schumacher finished all races on the podium, but Barrichello kept retiring early season due to car failures and was left on jacks on the grid in mid-season races. Like it or not, but Vettel is pretty much going in the same way as your idol Schumacher in his prime.

[555-04Q2]

Like it or not, but Vettel is pretty much going in the same way as your idol Schumacher in his prime.

Thats a good thing. Drivers and teams are now there to win, and win at all costs, something Ferrari and The Shoe did very very well. Anything else is seen as a failure. F1 is BIG BUSINESS now. The glory days of the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's are gone :(

[Ari]

http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/371844/Changes_made_to_Webbers_car_for_Sepang/

[ioan]

http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/371844/Changes_made_to_Webbers_car_for_Sepang/

Strange enough Horner is unable to name at least one of those 'problems':


“In a post-mortem of the event we’ve found a few things on Mark's car which, setup-wise, certainly wouldn't have helped,” Team Principal Christian Horner explained to reporters

“All of those elements have been changed for Malaysia, where we expect the two cars to be much closer together.”

“There was no single issue that we could finger-point, but there were elements which weren't right and the difference between the drivers over the course of the weekend was bigger than it's ever been – that’s not right so, for sure, those issues would have contributed.”

C'mon Mr. Horner man up and name that problem that was found between the seat and the steering wheel.

PS: Is it usual to use the term 'post-mortem' in such case?!

[Hawkmoon]

Strange enough Horner is unable to name at least one of those 'problems':



C'mon Mr. Horner man up and name that problem that was found between the seat and the steering wheel.

PS: Is it usual to use the term 'post-mortem' in such case?!

You're right ioan. Ferrari have the same problem between the steering wheel and seat of the second Ferrari. ;)

[555-04Q2]

You're right ioan. Ferrari have the same problem between the steering wheel and seat of the second Ferrari. ;)

Hey dude, Felipe is a great guy and he hasn't been the same driver since his crash. You take that back or I'll......

[Ari]

Strange enough Horner is unable to name at least one of those 'problems':



C'mon Mr. Horner man up and name that problem that was found between the seat and the steering wheel.

PS: Is it usual to use the term 'post-mortem' in such case?!

My thoughts are that they don't want to bring attention. The inside word I have is that there was a failure inside one of Marks rear suspension parts. This effectively locked and as such he had terrible handling and his tyres wore badly for the weekend.

I think the team just don't want to discuss it. After Mark and Seb were so close last year it's quite a gap. We know Seb is a tenth or two better in quali, but not .8 and after looking at Marks quali lap there were no visible mistakes.

Look at what happened after Silverstone and Turkey last year when the tin foil hats went on. The last thing RBR and its drivers need is a media circus outside the big tent which is why I believe they're trying to be very coy on the whole topic.

[555-04Q2]

I think its quite possible that Seb was just 100% hooked up at the first race while Mark wasnt. We've seen it before where one teamate just drivers perfectly for the whole weekend while the other battles. It could be there was a problem with Marks cars, but Seb just looked so good all weekend in OZ.

[ioan]

You're right ioan. Ferrari have the same problem between the steering wheel and seat of the second Ferrari. ;)

At least the guy at Ferrari is not complaining left right and middle, park the car after the checkered flag, the team doesn't make up excuses.
There are things in life you are born with (or without in Webber's case).

[ioan]

My thoughts are that they don't want to bring attention. The inside word I have is that there was a failure inside one of Marks rear suspension parts. This effectively locked and as such he had terrible handling and his tyres wore badly for the weekend.

I think the team just don't want to discuss it. After Mark and Seb were so close last year it's quite a gap. We know Seb is a tenth or two better in quali, but not .8 and after looking at Marks quali lap there were no visible mistakes.

Look at what happened after Silverstone and Turkey last year when the tin foil hats went on. The last thing RBR and its drivers need is a media circus outside the big tent which is why I believe they're trying to be very coy on the whole topic.

Thanks for the information.
I jut wish Red Bull, and F1 teams generally, were more transparent than what they are in their press releases where they talk a lot without saying anything.

Making it clear what the problem with mark's car was would only add to their image as a fair team and would in no way damage the relationship within the various people involved.
Silence is not good when suspicions are raised.

[Ari]

Thanks for the information.
I jut wish Red Bull, and F1 teams generally, were more transparent than what they are in their press releases where they talk a lot without saying anything.

Making it clear what the problem with mark's car was would only add to their image as a fair team and would in no way damage the relationship within the various people involved.
Silence is not good when suspicions are raised.

I think we all feel the same way about that.

From what I can see of a recent article where Horner states that expects Webber to be back on it this weekend is that they're just hoping for this thing to be resolved on track. As in, Mark will significantly improve this weekend and they can come out and say "yeah, we had a couple minor issues and they're resolved, as you can see.... let's move on from Australia".

The thing which I have my suspicions over is what the actual part/issue was? Perhaps it's quite top secret which is why the team is saying so little. They don't want to raise topic of a part which is right on the line legally or perhaps not used by other teams and thus provides RBR a considerable advantage.

Urgh. Two weeks since Melbourne and so many questions need answering and there's only one place it can happen..... this is driving me nuts! :D

[Ari]

Christian Horner on Webber in Australia: "damaged rear centre damper". Just said it on BBC.

[Hawkmoon]

Christian Horner on Webber in Australia: "damaged rear centre damper". Just said it on BBC.

Horner couldn't lie straight in bed if his life depended on it. Either Webber's car was the problem or Webber was the problem. Regardless of which, Red Bull need to get their story straight. All this flip-flopping about does their credibility little good.