Any electric car drivers?

[MrMetro]

Or any other source of power that is not petrol or diesel? I got thinking about this with all the confusion about petrol prices in the uk following the budget yesterday.

[Mark]

I guess after petrol and diesel the next most common power source will be LPG. However gas is still a fossil fuel.

[MrJan]

A while back I was looking into getting an LPG XJ6, however the things usually have astronomical mileage and it turns out that LPG isn't anywhere near as cheap as it used to be. Once you allow for the fact that consumption is higher with gas it's not quite as brilliant as it seems.

I have a pushbike that I use for getting to the pub, does that count?

[MrMetro]

I have a pushbike that I use for getting to the pub, does that count?

Yeah why not

[Dave B]

I walked to the postbox earlier, must have been nearly 100m round trip!

Electric cars are in this paradox where they won't become mainstream until the price comes down and they are quicker to recharge, but that won't happen until they become more mainstream.

And all that electricity has to come from somewhere...

[MrMetro]

I walked to the postbox earlier, must have been nearly 100m round trip!

Electric cars are in this paradox where they won't become mainstream until the price comes down and they are quicker to recharge, but that won't happen until they become more mainstream.

And all that electricity has to come from somewhere...

Indeed, well said.

[Sonic]

I've driven two electric cars so far. One was Pish poor, the other was, well, a car, albeit a heavier, uninspiring one.

For my personal use I'll need one to be capable of 300-400 odd miles between recharging, so I guess we are a decade or so away from that.

[Sonic]

Following on from Dave B's point about the electricity having to come from somewhere, I found this little nugget of info;

(it's printed in an actual book so I can't post a link)

"The electric smart ForTwo creates an equivalent of 84gCO2/Km, whereas the diesel smart emits 103g."

Hardly zero emissions...

[tfp]

Following on from Dave B's point about the electricity having to come from somewhere, I found this little nugget of info;

(it's printed in an actual book so I can't post a link)

"The electric smart ForTwo creates an equivalent of 84gCO2/Km, whereas the diesel smart emits 103g."

Hardly zero emissions...

Dont tell the tree huggers that, it will give them something else to complain about:-)
It's kinda like taking one step forward and two steps back. Theyre not achieving anything drastic.

[Mark]

Well it's more about potential. Electricity has the potential to be generated with no/low emissions.

[Sonic]

Well it's more about potential. Electricity has the potential to be generated with no/low emissions.

Oh yes, I agree. If you can charge your car from an entirely renewable source then your impact would be negligible. I just think the advertising of these current gen electric cars is misleading, as they are clearly not zero emission.

[Mark]

True, but I think we should probably be less worried about emissions and more about the supply of oil. As oil, while not actually running out as such, but the remaining reserves are getting more expensive to exploit, so anything we can do to move away from that the better.

So, even if an electric car is effectively powered by burning coal, then that's still a good thing as we still have plenty of coal! (Which always surprises me, especially in the UK as we've been burning it so much in the past few hundred years it's surprising there's any left at all!)

[Sonic]

True, but I think we should probably be less worried about emissions and more about the supply of oil. As oil, while not actually running out as such, but the remaining reserves are getting more expensive to exploit, so anything we can do to move away from that the better.

So, even if an electric car is effectively powered by burning coal, then that's still a good thing as we still have plenty of coal! (Which always surprises me, especially in the UK as we've been burning it so much in the past few hundred years it's surprising there's any left at all!)

Fair points.

Perhaps the biggest hurdle E cars have to overcome is battery life. Not time between charges you understand, but how many years the battery can work at optimum. As I understand it the expected lifetime is 5 years, which is pretty poor in comparison to combustion engines. I'm certain I wouldn't buy a three year old one secondhand with the certainty that it was only going to last me another couple of years.

[Mark]

I don't beleive battery technology will ever produce a viabale electric vechicle for the consumer market at large. Fuel cells, hydrogen etc show more promise.

Even if you have a battery which will get you 200 miles (which isn't enough in itself) if it then takes 8 hours to charge then it's still useless.

[Daniel]

I don't beleive battery technology will ever produce a viabale electric vechicle for the consumer market at large. Fuel cells, hydrogen etc show more promise.

Even if you have a battery which will get you 200 miles (which isn't enough in itself) if it then takes 8 hours to charge then it's still useless.

All battery power would need to take off would be battery swap stations.

[Mark]

All battery power would need to take off would be battery swap stations.

Sure, but you do need to be able to get 200-300 miles without swapping your battery.

[Daniel]

Sure, but you do need to be able to get 200-300 miles without swapping your battery.

The Tesla can already do 200 miles on a battery charge.

[Sonic]

The Tesla can already do 200 miles on a battery charge.

True, but at what cost? Weight. I think it was TG that did a direct back to back between the Elise and the Telsa and the results were unfavourable. I also seem to recall that Jezza ran the battery out in less than half the claimed 200 miles.

[Daniel]

Jezza

There's your problem

[555-04Q2]

Electric powered cars are more pollutant overall than the average combustion engine driven car is. Electric cars are limited, pricey and pointless.

[schmenke]

The Tesla can already do 200 miles on a battery charge.

Perhaps in ideal conditions.
In cold climates battery efficiency drops. Not to mention it must also supply the interior heater, wipers, window de-foggers and (especially around here :s ) push through several inches of snow on the roads. I’d be surprised if the Telsa could manage half the claimed mileage.

Nope, for me it’ll be an old-school internal combustion lump for years to come :) .

[Daniel]

Perhaps in ideal conditions.
In cold climates battery efficiency drops. Not to mention it must also supply the interior heater, wipers, window de-foggers and (especially around here :s ) push through several inches of snow on the roads. I’d be surprised if the Telsa could manage half the claimed mileage.

Nope, for me it’ll be an old-school internal combustion lump for years to come :) .


Of course, but everything starts off inefficient and gets better and better as time goes on. The performance per watt of PC's these days is ridiculously good compared to PC's back in the 80's.

[Sonic]

There's your problem

Hehehe! :D No doubt, as I guess you are suggesting, that he was deliberately driving aggressively to run the proverbial tank dry. But if you did the same in a petrol powered Elise I'm confident it could manage a good deal more than 90 odd miles before sputtering to a halt.

[Sonic]

Of course, but everything starts off inefficient and gets better and better as time goes on. The performance per watt of PC's these days is ridiculously good compared to PC's back in the 80's.

Not mine ;) piece of cr@p

[rah]

I don't beleive battery technology will ever produce a viabale electric vechicle for the consumer market at large. Fuel cells, hydrogen etc show more promise.

Even if you have a battery which will get you 200 miles (which isn't enough in itself) if it then takes 8 hours to charge then it's still useless.

There is a new type of super capacitor using Graphene. Graphene is the new wonder material. These capacitors are in experimental stages at the moment but they have their eyes on EV's. They hold their charge equivalent to NiMh batteries and on a EV level would be as quick to charge as it would be to fill a tank. Well thats what they are saying anyway.

Maybe with induction charging they could charge cars up while they are parking stations or something as well.

[donKey jote]

Current drive is a 10 year old Scenic on LPG. Depending on when it finally kicks the bucket, I'll be either going electric (provided I get a >100km range in Winter) or S-Max :s :p :dozey:

[christophulus]

I can't see the point, you're still burning fossil fuels to generate the electricity for the car to use! It'd make more sense to invest in renewable power plants first, then electric cars in a few years, hopefully battery technology will have improved by then.

[schmenke]

If we want to save the planet, we should all be driving turbo-diesels :mark:

[555-04Q2]

If we want to save the planet, we should all be driving turbo-diesels :mark:

If the doomsayers and global warming brigade are right (I think they are all a bunch of loonies to be honest) then driving turbo-diesels wont help one bit. Cars are a minor polluter in the global scheme of things. We should start walking, ban aeroplanes, heating at home, airconditioning, ban beef herds etc etc. Basically, return to the Stoneage :p :

[schmenke]

I don't disagree with you 555 (to a point :p : ), but the point I was trying to make is that overall a diesel-powered passenger vehicle is more eco-friendly than an electric one.

[555-04Q2]

I don't disagree with you 555 (to a point :p : ), but the point I was trying to make is that overall a diesel-powered passenger vehicle is more eco-friendly than an electric one.

:up:

[Bob Riebe]

I can't see the point, you're still burning fossil fuels to generate the electricity for the car to use! It'd make more sense to invest in renewable power plants first, then electric cars in a few years, hopefully battery technology will have improved by then.Unless you live in the north country where all the electric vehicle talk is considered amusing chat among starry-eyed dreamers.

[Mark]

Unless you live in the north country


Northumberland? :eek: