The ant bite

[Valve Bounce]

Well, I am astonished. I could not believe my eyes when I saw the results. Firstly I must add that internet here is difficult. I have just driven a camper van from Roma to Bologna today and I am knackered. What a surprise - ant posting a time that I could not dare to hope for. What can I say? where are the wedges and the beans to help me here?

I dare not hope. Ant jan { I am just reading (b)The Kite Runner)(/b) and I can only say (i)bismallah(/i). }

I can only wish you to believe in yourself - if you believe in yourself, then you can achieve what you desire.

I know schnell will understand what I say - well, what can I say? an old man that wishes success to a young man gifted by the gods.

I wish you all the achievements that you could possibly desire - and the hope that you can give the bunsen a kick in the ass.

[Ian McC]

Mind you don't do yourself an injury there :p :

[davidalbert]

I think we are going to hear a lot more from you about this as the Ant comes to terms with the new (06') car as Honda will certainly be embarrised by their new creation.
Ant did a fantastic job yesterday and i see no reason why that will not continue for the rest of the weekend.
Valve do you think that Jenson will be all at sea without the ant to set his car up?

[ClarkFan]

I'll jump in here and state that Valve has ventured just about that opinion.

I am also rooting for Davidson this year. I'd love for an overlooked driver to show the high & mighty of the F1 world that their preference for going with the proven mediocrity over the unproved possibility is incredibly nearsighted.

ClarkFan

[jjanicke]

Well, I am astonished. I could not believe my eyes when I saw the results. Firstly I must add that internet here is difficult. I have just driven a camper van from Roma to Bologna today and I am knackered. What a surprise - ant posting a time that I could not dare to hope for. What can I say? where are the wedges and the beans to help me here?

I dare not hope. Ant jan { I am just reading (b)The Kite Runner)(/b) and I can only say (i)bismallah(/i). }

I can only wish you to believe in yourself - if you believe in yourself, then you can achieve what you desire.

I know schnell will understand what I say - well, what can I say? an old man that wishes success to a young man gifted by the gods.

I wish you all the achievements that you could possibly desire - and the hope that you can give the bunsen a kick in the ass.

So you're not able to ride your bike to the park for the race this year?

Having fun in Europe?

Good to see one of your guys’ killing it. You've been a loyal soldier all along.

GO ANT!!! ...... after Kimi ;)

[jens]

Both Super Aguri drivers did a great job, qualifying into the middle of the grid. :up: Wondering whether they might have some chance to score Aguri's first ever F1 points tomorrow!

[jjanicke]

Would be great! AD deserves it. He's fast.

[Valve Bounce]

1. to qualify ahead of DC
2. To finish ahead of Mark Webber.

Now I go on bended knees and ask God for the third favour: PLease God, don't let taku run into ant :(

[F1boat]

Valve, I think that you were pretty sad when Ant signed with SA and not the factory team, I think that Davidson should be very happy for this :) And yes, he is doing a fine job so far :)

[jens]

Now I go on bended knees and ask God for the third favour: PLease God, don't let taku run into ant :(

Davidson is behind Sato, so Takuma has to be careful to avoid 'Ant' running into him. ;)

[Gibbsy]

Sorry Valve but you have lost me. Ant couldnt make the final shotout in the car that got pole last year and couldnt out qualify his average at best team mate either.

Not a great showing.

And why on earth would you specifically want AD to finish ahead of your countrymen?

[Garry Walker]

Davidson is behind Sato, so Takuma has to be careful to avoid 'Ant' running into him. ;)

Exactly. Such a pleasure seeing someone like Sato easily beat Ant the Hype :D :D :D :.

ant will spin out from the race.

[Garry Walker]

Sorry Valve but you have lost me. Ant couldnt make the final shotout in the car that got pole last year and couldnt out qualify his average at best team mate either.

Not a great showing.

And why on earth would you specifically want AD to finish ahead of your countrymen?

dont argue, Ant is the greatest living driver and the only reason Sato beat him is superior car. Massa, Alonso, Kimi and other top drivers are already totally scared of Ants talent and skills LMAO

[Robinho]

Exactly. Such a pleasure seeing someone like Sato easily beat Ant the Hype :D :D :D :.

ant will spin out from the race.


it must be so boring to be in your world, you are always so certain exactly what will happen, black and white, no room for options, and invaribly after making your certainties they turn out wrong, so you must be permanantly depressed too?!

Sato and Davidson are very equally matched, they both should do well this year and i'd expect to see them working as a team rather than against each other if they hope to move the team forward, i think Sato, davidson and Aguri are surprising a few people

[Garry Walker]

it must be so boring to be in your world, you are always so certain exactly what will happen, black and white, no room for options, and invaribly after making your certainties they turn out wrong, so you must be permanantly depressed too?!

Sato and Davidson are very equally matched, they both should do well this year and i'd expect to see them working as a team rather than against each other if they hope to move the team forward, i think Sato, davidson and Aguri are surprising a few people

Well, in the last qual they werent equally matched - Sato beat Davidson. Imagine the results SA would get if they had top drivers driving for them...

[Dave B]

Davidson made one small mistake in qually, otherwise things could have been very different. It's his first "proper" race, Sato for all his faults has several years' experience.

I wouldn't be writing off Ant just yet, in fact I reckon there are some great things to come.

[Robinho]

they were split by a very smal amount, and davidson admitted he made a small mistake on his last (quickest) qually lap and lamented that he would have made the top 10 if he'd replicated his morning practice lap.

they are 1 place apart on the grid and have been clsoely matched all weekend.

i don't see why you seek to create a rift where there isn't one. two good quick and still young drivers doing better than expected, of cousre they will benchmark against each other,but i think they are working very well together.

i've only heard positive things from both of them about the team, each other and their chances

[BeansBeansBeans]

Davidson was excellent in practice and qualifying, and I imagine that he would have made the top 10 had he not made a small error. Only time will tell whether he or Sato will eventually come out on top, but my money would be on Davidson. However, I do think that over the course of the season, Honda, with their bigger budget, will develop their car sufficiently to overcome Super Aguri. The aim for SA this season should be regular top 10 finishes.

[El Sween]

Superb driving by Davidson so far. Simply superb.

[Ian McC]

dont argue, Ant is the greatest living driver and the only reason Sato beat him is superior car. Massa, Alonso, Kimi and other top drivers are already totally scared of Ants talent and skills LMAO

Really, what was the point of that? :rolleyes:

[LOTI]

Davidson in better shape starting 11th than Sato in 10th. Clean side of the track and choice of fuel load. Great job by both of them.

[Valve Bounce]

Davidson is behind Sato, so Takuma has to be careful to avoid 'Ant' running into him. ;)

You seem to have a short memory of Taku's exploits from a couple of years ago. :D

Sorry Garry, but this is the only response you'll ever get from me. Don't waste your breath trying to needle me as you are on my ignore list as of now.

[jens]

Here we go again: Sato vs Davidson.

But I agree with those, who say that Davidson gets too much emphasis compared to Sato. Of course Davidson did a magnificent job, but in that case you should praise Sato as well. But it seems not to be the case. Most of you are just excited about Ant.

Ok well, I may understand you. Davidson is your compatriot - or at least to some of you. I view it from a bit more neutral position and that's how I see it - who gets more attention than needed and who less.

[ClarkFan]

Davidson is behind Sato, so Takuma has to be careful to avoid 'Ant' running into him. ;)

More likely that Davidson has to be careful to avoid the mess created when Sato tries to go from 10th to 1st before the first corner........ :s

ClarkFan

[davidalbert]

Jens, take a chill pill, i don't think that this thread is totally about Sato v Ant but more about Valve having a bit of fun.
Although i do think ClarkFan has a point as sato has a problem seperating ability from ambition.

[Spoonbender]

An earlier post mentioned about JB missing Ant setting the car up for him. Don't forget he also did this for Sato in years past, whos to say that his knowledge of setting up the Honda that they're using didn't help Sato today.

I've said this before, I hope I'm right (can anyone confirm or deny) Anthony Davidson has to this day done the fastest ever lap of Monaco, during testing, on his debut at the circuit, having only driven round there before on the Playstation.

[PSfan]

Jens, take a chill pill, i don't think that this thread is totally about Sato v Ant but more about Valve having a bit of fun.
Although i do think ClarkFan has a point as sato has a problem seperating ability from ambition.

You know, I wouldn't describe Valve's comments towards Sato as having a bit of fun, you mention something like that regarding the Ant, and he'll respond with calling you some "cranium" names, and announcing that you where now on his ignore list. He's having fun? No, he's being childish...

Now I must admit poor Sato is basically a sitting duck, specially against his team-mate here, I think if you can't qualify 5th or better, then 11th is not bad either when you have the option to make up your mind on fuel strategy race day, and you don't have that extra mileage on your car from running 3rd round, not to mention I believe 11th will be on the cleaner side of the track?

I hope both Aguri's do well in the race, though after reading some of the Ant's fans in this thread, I'm almost hoping that Davidson does something that will make them eat a little humble pie, maybe they might shut it, and stop with the "Davidson is good, and Sato is bad" remarks...

Ok thats enough from me for now... :p :

[tinchote]

Not a great race for AD. The question mark stays for a few more races, I guess.

[Roamy]

what happened to his float ??

[ioan]

He'll have to learn to race, again.

[jens]

You thought here that Sato will take Davidson out, but look what Ant did - a collision with Sutil in Turn 1. :p :

(Ok-Ok, slight irony, although I couldn't get, who was the responsible for that collision - but both are rookies and then no wonder that such things happen...)

On the contrary Sato was involved in many battles and wow - no collisions! :eek: :p :

[Schnell]

Ant experienced a throttle response problem as he left the garage for the grid, and he got left on the grid with no throttle! But got away about 10 seconds later and caught up with Sutil.
TV showed him making a heavy landing, after contact from Sutil, which hurt his back, but he continued on in great discomfort, determined to get to the flag.
He was plagued throughout the race with frustrating intermitant throttle response problems, which probable had something to do with the incident, but he nursed it home to the finish, albeit in considerable pain.
He's gone for an X Ray, I'm informed.

[jens]

He's gone for an X Ray, I'm informed.

Oh dear - hopefully he's okay. :)

But there is at least something positive about 'Ant' - this is his first ever F1 race that he has managed to finish!

[F1boat]

Ant experienced a throttle response problem as he left the garage for the grid, and he got left on the grid with no throttle! But got away about 10 seconds later and caught up with Sutil.
TV showed him making a heavy landing, after contact from Sutil, which hurt his back, but he continued on in great discomfort, determined to get to the flag.
He was plagued throughout the race with frustrating intermitant throttle response problems, which probable had something to do with the incident, but he nursed it home to the finish, albeit in considerable pain.
He's gone for an X Ray, I'm informed.

I hope that he is OK!

[Schnell]

You thought here that Sato will take Davidson out, but look what Ant did - a collision with Sutil in Turn 1. :p :

(Ok-Ok, slight irony, although I couldn't get, who was the responsible for that collision - but both are rookies and then no wonder that such things happen...)

On the contrary Sato was involved in many battles and wow - no collisions! :eek: :p :

Actually it was Albers not Sutil!
Ant had passed Sutil and was following Massa passed Albers when Albers turned in and scooped up Ants car chucking it into the air! The same Albers who missed his braking point shortly after crashing out the race!

[Schnell]

I hope that he is OK!

Thanks, he was stretched from paddock and taken by Ambalance to Hospital (good way to beat the traffic out of the circuit Ant!)
He's compacted stuff around the spine, and is in a lot of pain.
Seems he was a hero to continue driving, and with the cars underside destroyed!

[F1boat]

I hope that he will be all right for the next race in Sepang :)

[BeansBeansBeans]

He's compacted stuff around the spine, and is in a lot of pain. Seems he was a hero to continue driving, and with the cars underside destroyed!

That shows great detemination, and reminds me of a certain moustachioed brummie's debut. I hope he is fit for round 2.

[Ian McC]

He'll have to learn to race, again.

What?

[Dave B]

Great that he got to see the chequered flag in his first "proper" race as a fully-fledged driver, let's hope there's no ill effects from the accident. He seems a tough enough cookie!

[Erki]

I'm not very sure racing with an injured back is the smartest thing to do - but then again show me a "smart" racing driver. :)

I hope he'll be fine. :up:

[aryan]

Thanks for the info Schnell and for keeping us informed. It should have been dreadful to watch that accident, but then again, maybe you have gotten used to them.

I hope Ant recovers soon, and that there is no serious injury, and that he can make to Sepang in full fitness.

He did a heroic job to nurse that broken car home, I guess he really did want to see that chequered flag.

Keep us updated on his medical status, thanks.

[Ian McC]

Well that wasn't the first race we were hoping for, I hope continuing the race doesn't rule him out for the next through injury.

[Schnell]

Thanks for the info Schnell and for keeping us informed. It should have been dreadful to watch that accident, but then again, maybe you have gotten used to them.

I hope Ant recovers soon, and that there is no serious injury, and that he can make to Sepang in full fitness.

He did a heroic job to nurse that broken car home, I guess he really did want to see that chequered flag.

Keep us updated on his medical status, thanks.

They've just released him (half past midnight OZ time) compressed nerves and muscular stuff.
Wrestling the pain barrier is what sports people are all about, we have a family Triathlete friend that does Marathons etc. Very tough cookies these sporty types, credit to Ant to match Taku's fastest race lap, despite significant aero damage.
That startline problem is something that has occured occassionally in testing, and it went and reoccured on the flipping race grid! Made Ants brothers and me curse and cuss!!! The collision yeah just one of things, weve gotten used to over the years, it's all part and parcel of racing.

Seems it was rookie Sutil, (not Albers, he had his own prang!) he didn't know Ant had gone around his outside of him and drifted out into him! (perhaps it's a Spyker plot to rid the track of look-alike 2006 Honda's?)

[Dave B]

Seems it was rookie Sutil, (not Albers, he had his own prang!) he didn't know Ant had gone around his outside of him and drifted out into him! (perhaps it's a Spyker plot to rid the track of look-alike 2006 Honda's?)
Perhaps it was a lucky strike? :p

Glad to hear the boy's ok, and thanks for your valued input on these threads :champion: :up:

[VkmSpouge]

A tough race for Davidson after looking so very promising in qualifying and practice. Clearly his throttle problems messed up his start and that incident with Sutil messed up his back. No doubt he'll hope to have a better race in Sepang but at least he finished today.

[Garry Walker]

Not an impressive race/weekend by davidson, but at least he didnt injure himself more, lets hope the back problem isnt long-lasting like many back problems tend to be (take KR for example)

[BeansBeansBeans]

Not an impressive race/weekend by davidson

I was very impressed with his pace this weekend. Obviously his race was affected by injury / damage and a starting problem, but over the whole weekend I think he showed that he is worth his place in F1. Hopefully he'll drive well enough this season to secure himself a full Honda race drive, but at the moment that looks like a step down!

[ClarkFan]

Ant experienced a throttle response problem as he left the garage for the grid, and he got left on the grid with no throttle! But got away about 10 seconds later and caught up with Sutil.
TV showed him making a heavy landing, after contact from Sutil, which hurt his back, but he continued on in great discomfort, determined to get to the flag.
He was plagued throughout the race with frustrating intermitant throttle response problems, which probable had something to do with the incident, but he nursed it home to the finish, albeit in considerable pain.
He's gone for an X Ray, I'm informed.

That accounts for the problems he was having keeping lap time consistent. I was following the race on F1 timing and AD would be reeling Liuzzi in, turning 1:28.5 laps, and then lose it all with a 1:30+ lap. But a sticking/variable throttle would make it really hard to turn steady laps.

Hope he recovers well and is fit for Malaysia.

ClarkFan

[Valve Bounce]

I was very impressed with his pace this weekend. Obviously his race was affected by injury / damage and a starting problem, but over the whole weekend I think he showed that he is worth his place in F1. Hopefully he'll drive well enough this season to secure himself a full Honda race drive, but at the moment that looks like a step down!


Thanks beans for a very honest appraisal. To tell you the truth, I was gutted, and to make it worse, the commentary at Bologna was in Italian so I wasn't able to determine the full extent of the damage or his injuries.

He did himself proud, and I hope he continues the good driving in the next race.

[jjanicke]

The ant has shown us his pace, and it's only a matter of time until he consistently performs throughout the entire weekend. As long as he can stay ahead of the spykers, which shouldn't be a qualifying problem, and he can keep his car and himself healthy he will be dancing mid pack, perhaps better, no problem.


Not an impressive race/weekend by davidson, but at least he didnt injure himself more, lets hope the back problem isnt long-lasting like many back problems tend to be (take KR for example)

Are you referring to Kimi as your "KR" example? When did Kimi have back problems!

[fizzicist]

We were sat at Turn 9 where Ant had the collision with Sutil.

I have to say that the collision was entirely Sutil's fault. Ant was passing on the outside and had most of the car ahead. Underbraking Sutil drifted to the outside and interlocked wheels so the back of Sutil's front wheel interlocked with the front of Ant's rear (if that makes sense). This left Davidson with no room to manouver and a collision was inevitable.

In terms of times, Davidson had pace all weekend. His race was erratic, which would tie in with car problems. Certainly, his Saturday morning practice time was stunning and he was man enough to hold his hand up and say that it was his fault that he didn't produce his best in qualifying, which is more than many would.

[Roamy]

thanks Fizz

When did you get out???? Well one thing we forumers know is that we can trust your judgement. So on to the next race with Ant!!

Thanks for the report!!

[fizzicist]

We escaped from the convict colony last week. As for my stretch? Self enforced - I got pissed with reading the same old garbage from certain people on here so disappeared off elsewhere for a while.

[Roamy]

welcome back - who are you picking to win the whole enchalada??

[Garry Walker]

Are you referring to Kimi as your "KR" example? When did Kimi have back problems!

Ever since his testing crash in magny-cours in 2001 - its permanent damage and nothing too serious, but for example last year at turkey when he crashed out of the race due to car damage he did injure the back quite a bit and was forced to miss testing. He has hurt his back a couple of other times aswell.

[jjanicke]

Ever since his testing crash in magny-cours in 2001 - its permanent damage and nothing too serious, but for example last year at turkey when he crashed out of the race due to car damage he did injure the back quite a bit and was forced to miss testing. He has hurt his back a couple of other times aswell.

Obviously he's doing a good job not letting it affect him and keeping it out of the media. If you asked me about back problems the 1st driver to come to mind wouldn't be Kimi, it would be RS.

[Valve Bounce]

It would be most intresting if ant could beat both team Hondas as well as a couple of other supposedly faster team's cars. Not many drivers have been able to do this in the history of F1, especially in the previous year's car.

[BeansBeansBeans]

It would be most intresting if ant could beat both team Hondas as well as a couple of other supposedly faster team's cars. Not many drivers have been able to do this in the history of F1, especially in the previous year's car.

As much as I think Ant will do well, I can't see either he or Sato outscoring the Hondas over the whole season. Honda showed last year that they can improve a car dramatically over the course of a season, and their scope for development will be much larger than that of Super Aguri.

[Valve Bounce]

Stirling didn't beat the works cars nor the more powerful Ferraris for every race or even over the whole season. Just in the races where his ability overcame their superior power advantage.


However, It remains whether who is developing the Hondas and who is developing the Aguris, or whether Toshigi are involved in developing both cars. Of course, Aguri has the better test driver. ;)

We really need some input from Eiji.

[Schnell]

We were sat at Turn 9 where Ant had the collision with Sutil.

I have to say that the collision was entirely Sutil's fault. Ant was passing on the outside and had most of the car ahead. Underbraking Sutil drifted to the outside and interlocked wheels so the back of Sutil's front wheel interlocked with the front of Ant's rear (if that makes sense). This left Davidson with no room to manouver and a collision was inevitable.

In terms of times, Davidson had pace all weekend. His race was erratic, which would tie in with car problems. Certainly, his Saturday morning practice time was stunning and he was man enough to hold his hand up and say that it was his fault that he didn't produce his best in qualifying, which is more than many would.

Just caught up with this thread today...thanks for your live observation 'Fizzi' Ant said it happened on the exit of turn 8, a long fast right curve called 'Lauda'. He had seen Massa pass Sutil and being much faster just drove around the outside of the Spyker having given it plenty of room...when Sutil ran out wide, and as you say interlocked wheels smashing Ants right side pod to bits...then Ant's right rear wheel rode over Sutil's left front!
Ant's car tipped up at about 35 degrees, the front left landing first then the rears hard enough for the front end to leave the ground again! The damage to the right side and underside aero reduced the downforce by (**&#37 ;) which would reduce laps times by *.** secs (sensored folks!)

I'm disapointed that Sutil didn't have the courtesy to appologise to Ant for spoiling his race and knowing as it was widely reported, Ant was injured. Very unsporting too as it happens.

[Garry Walker]

You know, I wouldn't describe Valve's comments towards Sato as having a bit of fun, you mention something like that regarding the Ant, and he'll respond with calling you some "cranium" names, and announcing that you where now on his ignore list. He's having fun? No, he's being childish...


Full truth if I ever saw one.



I'm disapointed that Sutil didn't have the courtesy to appologise to Ant for spoiling his race

Considering Davidsons move on him was quite optimistic, I see no reason why he should have apologized.

[TMorel]

Gary,
Whether he appologised for the accident or not, you'd have thought out of common decency that Sutil would have said to Davidson that he was sorry that he had ended up in hospital.

[fizzicist]

Gary, it happened about twenty metres from my own eyes and it was far from being optimistic - Ant was ahead as they went into the braking zone, braking on the racing line and Sutil outbraked himself on the dirty line and hit Ant.

I appreciate you have your favoured drivers and thats fair enough. Ant may not be one of them, but you're saying black is white by calling the move optimistic.

[Malbec]

There's no doubt that Davidson did well in Melbourne, but ultimately Sato beat him in qualifying and his race was spoilt by the incident with Sutil in the opening laps. While his pace on Saturday practice was astonishing, he failed to do the same in quali. Can someone remind me how many points you get for being quick in practice?

I'm sure that over the season Davidson will prove himself to be a worthy driver, but to claim that he's better than Sato at this point (as some people have) seems a little premature to me.

[TMorel]

Dylan,
are you trying to suggest that some people here are making wild unsupported claims!?!?!?

I'm shocked, shocked I tell ya

[BeansBeansBeans]

I'm sure that over the season Davidson will prove himself to be a worthy driver, but to claim that he's better than Sato at this point (as some people have) seems a little premature to me.

It may have been their first race together in F1, but Davidson and Sato have been team-mates before in British F3. Although Taku beat Ant to the 2001 title, many people felt over the course of the season that Davidson showed the most potential. Especially given that Sato was a 3rd year driver, and Davidson a rookie.

My personal feeling is that I'm unsure who is the better driver, but if I had to put my life on it, I'd say that Davidson will outscore Sato in 2007.

[Schnell]

Just had a chat to Ant on the phone after final test day... I asked him about the incident with Sutil, he said the cars were still in two rows, he was right behind Massa, and followed him around the outside of Sutil, who just ran out wide into him interlocking wheels!

Had it been Ant's fault he would have been the first to own up to it. He said the officials wanted to look into it, but without any TV film footage of the incident (only the aftermath) they couldn't.
How a certain poster here knows better is a mystery! I've certainly not read any article nor seen anything by Sutil that aportions blame to AD. If 'Whatshisname' has he should 'put up or shut up'

Whatever for Sutil this was just one of several rookie errors he made during the race, two of which earned him drive-thru penalties. He'll learn, just a pity it was at Ant's expense and that he wasn't sporting or man enough to admit it.

As for the Ant v Sato comparison...it's still very early days, and not dissimilar to 2001 when Ant the new boy into F3 had to measure up to the more experience Sato in his second full season with his team, where was the favourite. After the fourth race he was right up there with him. So again time will tell, believe me I'm as keen as anyone here to find out too!

That 4th fastest lap in Saturday mornings practice was just one of those magic laps drivers always dream of and strive for whenever they drive a lap, they don't circulate in F1 for fun!
But, honest as ever Ant' admitted to an error on both new tyre runs in Q2, the first in sector one, the second in the final one. But that's what it's all about 'Dylan H'...trying to achieve the perfect lap, but it happened in practice! At least he was good enough to achieve one!

[Firstgear]

If 'Whatshisname' has he should 'put up or shut up'


I think most of us are hoping he chooses option 2.

Thanks for the updates Schnell. Getting these clips from you really adds alot to the forum (for me anyway).

[Valve Bounce]

I'm going to miss the race :(

[Tazio]

Pos No Driver Team Q1 Q2 Q3

1 5 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:35.340 1:34.454 1:35.043

2 1 Fernando Alonso McLaren-Mercedes 1:34.942 1:34.057 1:35.310

3 6 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 1:35.138 1:34.687 1:35.479

4 2 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:35.028 1:34.650 1:36.045

5 9 Nick Heidfeld BMW 1:35.617 1:35.203 1:36.543

6 16 Nico Rosberg Williams-Toyota 1:35.755 1:35.380 1:36.829

7 10 Robert Kubica BMW 1:35.294 1:34.739 1:36.896

8 12 Jarno Trulli Toyota 1:35.666 1:35.255 1:36.902

9 11 Ralf Schumacher Toyota 1:35.736 1:35.595 1:37.078

10 15 Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1:35.727 1:35.579 1:37.345

11 4 Heikki Kovalainen Renault 1:36.092 1:35.630

12 3 Giancarlo Fisichella Renault 1:35.879 1:35.706

13 14 David Coulthard Red Bull-Renault 1:35.730 1:35.766

14 22 Takuma Sato Super Aguri-Honda 1:36.430 1:35.945

15 7 Jenson Button Honda 1:35.913 1:36.088

16 18 Vitantonio Liuzzi STR-Ferrari 1:36.140 1:36.145

17 19 Scott Speed STR-Ferrari 1:36.578

18 23 Anthony Davidson Super Aguri-Honda 1:36.816

19 8 Rubens Barrichello Honda 1:36.827

20 17 Alexander Wurz Williams-Toyota 1:37.326

21 21 Christijan Albers Spyker-Ferrari 1:38.279

22 20 Adrian Sutil Spyker-Ferrari 1:38.415

__________________
The Ant has positioned himself perfectly for another stellar race!

[jens]

And the "future World Champion" Davidson got again beaten by "nobody-driver" like Sato. Wow! :rolleyes:

Sarcasm aside - we still haven't seen properly, what Ant can do in race conditions and how well can he endure there. So far he has got the image of a "one-lap wonder".

[Garry Walker]

Sarcasm aside - we still haven't seen properly, what Ant can do in race conditions and how well can he endure there. So far he has got the image of a "one-lap wonder".

And even for one lap, he doesnt seem that "wonderful". Today he was clearly beaten by Sato, so far its 2:0 for Sato then. Considering how Sato was whipped by Button, that speaks volumes about the quality AD (the man some claim Renault should have hired LMAO) is showing.

[SuperAguri]

You mustn't forget Davidson is driving through the pain barrier, pulling over 4G with a back that is nowhere near 100%, plus Sato will probably crash out anyway ( :D )

Plus the gap in Australia was hardly enormous

[BeansBeansBeans]

The English rookie is not far off the pace of his very experienced team-mate. So far, he has been beaten in 2 qualifying sessions, and one Grand Prix, but in time he will close the gap.

I could be talking about either of two drivers here.

[jso1985]

he's not doing bad, yet if you can't beat Sato or at least get close to him in a similar car I don't see you winning even a race in the future

[PSfan]

The English rookie is not far off the pace of his very experienced team-mate. So far, he has been beaten in 2 qualifying sessions, and one Grand Prix, but in time he will close the gap.

I could be talking about either of two drivers here.

No, you can only be talking about one driver, otherwise, you would be off topic :rolleyes:

And as far as closing the gap, keeping in mind that they are essentially driving a copy of the same car that Davidson should already be very familiar with from last year (Or else Spyker is just wasting our time with naming Aguri in their abritration process...) there shouldn't be as much of a gap between Sato and Davidson in Qualifying which runs alot more like practice/testing then actual racing.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Sato and Davidson in Qualifying which runs alot more like practice/testing then actual racing.

That's your opinion.

I would say that qualifying is more like racing than testing, because the drivers are competing against one another. Whereas testing is about gathering data and trying different components and set-ups.

Either way, I still think it's unfair to write-off Anthony Davidson's chances based on 2 Grand Prix weekends.

[Valve Bounce]

What thehellhappened?????????????? I was at the hotel in Singapore, happy ashell that ant was ahead of both Team Honda cars as well his team mate - he was going great guns and then he was second last, I had to check out and I am at Changi using a free internet but missing two keys and it's as slow as the team Hondas and I can't get any news. What thehell Happened??? :bigcry:

[BeansBeansBeans]

Nothing dramatic Valve.

Ant drove a solid but uneventful race amongst the tail-enders.

[jens]

The brightest moment for Ant was a brilliant start, where he somehow managed to rise several positions. Then Sato started catching him and well - for about half of the race Ant somehow managed to maintain Takuma's pace, but couldn't endure the last stint.

[truefan72]

it was a tough race for Anthony.. i still have faith in his abilities and that off Super aguri. Sato finished first in the honda battle.

[Valve Bounce]

ant was ahead of all the other hondas!! What the hell happened??

I want an explanation!!

[SuperAguri]

Injured back + G Forces + Very high temperatures = exhaustion plus a lot of pain = not very fast

Besides, we don't know if there were any other dramas, Lewis Hamilton said he ran out of water at half distance.

[aryan]

My guess is that he ran out of energy.
racing in 50+ degree temperatures and 50% humidity requires lots of stamina, I am just guessing here as I don't know if Ant had any specific problems or not, but if he didn't, then he just lacks stamina.

Fortunately for him, Malaysia only happens once a year.

[Garry Walker]

Sato DECIMATED Davidson in qualifying, and also in the race. So far "ant" isnt showing up as great as some hyped him up to be.

[Robinho]

Sato DECIMATED Davidson in qualifying, and also in the race. So far "ant" isnt showing up as great as some hyped him up to be.

Rubbish. Sato narrowly beat him out of the first qually session and did a great job in the next to post a decent time. for the first 2/3's of the race Davidson and Sato swaped places several times whilst dicing with the works Hondas, eventually he ended up behind Sato and the Hondas, and i expect he just exhausted in the heat and could not sustain the pace, which is unfortunate, but not unexpected for a relative rookie, especially one recovering from a painful back injury.

True, Ant has not shown much in the races so far to suggest he in anything more than average, but then there are always excuses, god knows you use them often enough if anyone questions why Massa failed to beat Kimi (again), talk about hype!! ;)

Decimated? Really!

[Valve Bounce]

I'm waiting to see what happens in Bahrein.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Cracking practice and qualifying from Ant. Was disappointed he didn't make Q3, but 13th isn't shabby at all.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Cracking practice and qualifying from Ant. Was disappointed he didn't make Q3, but 13th isn't shabby at all.

Especially with Rubens 15th, Jenson 16th and Taku 17th :)

[Robinho]

Ant DECIMATED Sato today, think he should race well from 13th, hope he can keep a good pace throughout this time and doesn't suufer in the heat like Malaysia, Top Honda, nearly in Q3, way quicker than Sato, a good result

[Ian McC]

I bet Valve is beside himself right now :D

[jjanicke]

Davidson has yet to show his real race pace. Let's hope he does so tomorrow.

[Schnell]

Well his back is fixed and he's got rid of his 'Man Flu' and his cars working well (on the soft tyre) so it's all about surviving the first corner and hanging on in there. He's in a confident mood.

[Schnell]

Where's 'Whatshisname' and 'Jinks' ? They're very quiet today! Whys that then? Sure they'll find some ammo in the race! Real sports you guys!

[Robinho]

great race so far, could get points?

[Garry Walker]

Is davidson an idiot? what the hell was he doing leaving oil all over the road and not pulling off the track? Stupid fool.

[F1boat]

I was furious when he blocked Massa.

[Robinho]

Is davidson an idiot? what the hell was he doing leaving oil all over the road and not pulling off the track? Stupid fool.


did you watch the race, did you see oil flags, the engine smoked for a few corners, he probably didn't know there was a problem until it blew and he pulled off.

did anyone go off on oil? were the last few laps slower for everyone? did you just take the opportunity to bash someone as quickly as possible, before even congratulating your man Felipe on what was a very good drive.

as it was i think Ant drove a great race and was in with a shout for a point until the engine let go, but of course that won't matter to you, its just a chnace to rubbish someone in your eyes

[Garry Walker]

did you watch the race, did you see oil flags, the engine smoked for a few corners, he probably didn't know there was a problem until it blew and he pulled off.

did anyone go off on oil? were the last few laps slower for everyone? did you just take the opportunity to bash someone as quickly as possible, before even congratulating your man Felipe on what was a very good drive.


1) I congradulated Massa first.
2) Davidson drove half a lap with smoking engine and left oil on the track. just because no one didnt go off, doesnt mean it wasnt stupid. If I put a bomb in a building and it explodes, but noone happens to be there, does that mean it was okay for me to do that?

[Robinho]

1) I congradulated Massa first.
2) Davidson drove half a lap with smoking engine and left oil on the track. just because no one didnt go off, doesnt mean it wasnt stupid. If I put a bomb in a building and it explodes, but noone happens to be there, does that mean it was okay for me to do that?

fair enough on Massa, i didn't see your post, it looked like you were just jumping on someone

if there was oil all over the track, where were the oil flags, why weren't the last 6 laps the slowest of the race for everyone?

sure there was some oil, thats what the smoke was, but the engine hadn't blown completely and he more than likely didn't know that there was anythin so serious wrong, probably just a drop in power, its not like he would have been able to see in the mirrors as all he would see is the rear wing.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Ideally Davidson would have pulled off the track earlier, but it's easy to say that when you're sat on your sofa. As far as we know, he mightn't have known he was losing fluid. Still, it was a disappointing end to his best weekend in F1, but hopefully he can build on it in Barcelona.

[PSfan]

Well, I'de like to congradulate Davidson for having a thread that now over 100 posts (won't be long before his threads will be locked up for being to long ;)

I also find it a little ironic that after all the wild Sato crashing predictions by the Davidson fans, that it would be the Ant that would be the first of the Aguri's to do something really boneheaded. We'll just chalk that one up to lack of race experience, but I don't buy the "he didn't know theory" because A) pit telemetry should have told them something wrong, and B) the fact that it started to go while Hamilton was behind, so if he's not checking his mirrors to see who he should be letting by him when the blue flags are waving, then somethings wrong.

Which is a real shame, cause I was hoping for a decent result from him so I wouldn't feel guilty for bugging Schnell for Clarification on what exactly is the "Man Flu" sounds dirty to me. Also wanted to know when he was going to talk to Peter Windsor during a race, (they interviewed Anthony Hamilton during the Speedtv coverage, I'm getting so sick of the Hamilton hype that I think I would prefer hearing Schnell talk up the Ant during a race then what's happening now...)

[Ian McC]

2) Davidson drove half a lap with smoking engine and left oil on the track. just because no one didnt go off, doesnt mean it wasnt stupid. If I put a bomb in a building and it explodes, but noone happens to be there, does that mean it was okay for me to do that?


:dozey:

[ClarkFan]

Ideally Davidson would have pulled off the track earlier, but it's easy to say that when you're sat on your sofa. As far as we know, he mightn't have known he was losing fluid. Still, it was a disappointing end to his best weekend in F1, but hopefully he can build on it in Barcelona.

Also remember that the mirrors on F1 cars are largely decorative. In particular, the drivers can't see much if any of the back half of their own cars. A smoking engine probably isn't visible to a driver who needs to be paying just a little bit of attention to what is ahead of him.

The pit telemetry should catch these things, but Davidson doesn't have direct access to that information. If his engineer doesn't tell him to give it up and pull off, AD's job is to keep plugging on until something lets go.

ClarkFan

[PSfan]

Also remember that the mirrors on F1 cars are largely decorative. In particular, the drivers can't see much if any of the back half of their own cars. A smoking engine probably isn't visible to a driver who needs to be paying just a little bit of attention to what is ahead of him.

ClarkFan

Shame the defendant shot this theory out the window with his post race comments:


The strategy was working quite well and then right towards the end of the race I obviously saw some smoke coming out of the back of the engine; felt it slow down and the team told me to stop.

And as I noted, Hamilton got a whole lot of something sprayed on his car when it happened, therefor The Ant must have been looking back at the time because he would have been shown blue flags...

[Ian McC]

It is worth noting that Hamiltons car was sending out blue smoke at one point, just as well he didn't take some of the advice and pull over :rolleyes:

[jens]

Davidson did a great job in quali, but in the race Sato actually ran right behind Davidson for most of the time. Sadly the engine of both cars blew up, so we didn't see, how that battle could have ended...

[Valve Bounce]

Davidson did a great job in quali, but in the race Sato actually ran right behind Davidson for most of the time. Sadly the engine of both cars blew up, so we didn't see, how that battle could have ended...

Actually, ant was on a very heavy fuel load when you consider how late he pulled in for his first pit stop. I didn't see sato behind ant, but then I didn't see ant much - most of time we only saw the front runners. But he did qualify ahead of both team Hondas, using a second hand car from last year. :rolleyes:

Still, there is little excuse for Aguri not knocking off a Williams and a Renault seeing the have the best F1 test driver in their team. :rolleyes: (just kidding here). He did put WDC hopeful Ralfie to shame. :)

I couldn't believe it when ant got up to 6th place before pitting, but the present regs do not allow him to run the rest of the race on a one stopper; he had to make a second pit stop for the hard tyres, so all that is academic.

I don't know why you guys even bother to react and reply to that genital cranium who keeps knocking ant no matter what he does. if you stop quoting his posts, they won't appear on my screen as he is on my ignore list - so please, just ignore him. Thanks.

[PSfan]

Valve Bounce: Actually, ant was on a very heavy fuel load when you consider how late he pulled in for his first pit stop. I didn't see sato behind ant, but then I didn't see ant much - most of time we only saw the front runners. But he did qualify ahead of both team Hondas, using a second hand car from last year. :rolleyes:

I hated that pit strategy when JV was using it, and I still don't like it. I have never seen a good result when a driver drives almost 1/2 the race distance on the first stint, and then cut the 2nd half of the race in two.

And hasn't Sato managed the amasing feat of qualifying ahead of both factory Honda's twice this year?

Valve Bounce: Still, there is little excuse for Aguri not knocking off a Williams and a Renault seeing the have the best F1 test driver in their team. :rolleyes: (just kidding here). He did put WDC hopeful Ralfie to shame. :)

I think Williams have put together a competent car, and I think its just a matter of time before Wurz warms up to it and we find him regularly in the points

Valve Bounce: I couldn't believe it when ant got up to 6th place before pitting, but the present regs do not allow him to run the rest of the race on a one stopper; he had to make a second pit stop for the hard tyres, so all that is academic.


As I stated above, I hate that strategy, 1/2 way threw the race you figure he's good to steal a few points thanks to a one stopper, then next thing you know, he's back in 12th after making another stop and points would require a miracle!!! I hate that!!! :p :

But I would recommend you watch the Aussie GP again, or at least watch the dots... A few drivers (Massa most noteable managed a 1 stopped despite these new tire regs!!!)

Valve Bounce: I don't know why you guys even bother to react and reply to that genital cranium who keeps knocking ant no matter what he does. if you stop quoting his posts, they won't appear on my screen as he is on my ignore list - so please, just ignore him. Thanks.

Being a member of the "I'm on Valve Bounce's ignore list club" I thought I would use a differenct method of quoteing him on the off chance someone will quote my post and it won't confuse the guy. Whenever I see him refer to his fellow members as: "genital cranium" I just think of how sad, and little, and imature this poster is. Your not doing yourself any favours by announcing who's on your ignore list regularly

[wedge]

Valve Bounce: Actually, ant was on a very heavy fuel load when you consider how late he pulled in for his first pit stop. I didn't see sato behind ant, but then I didn't see ant much - most of time we only saw the front runners. But he did qualify ahead of both team Hondas, using a second hand car from last year. :rolleyes:

I hated that pit strategy when JV was using it, and I still don't like it. I have never seen a good result when a driver drives almost 1/2 the race distance on the first stint, and then cut the 2nd half of the race in two.

Are you kidding? That is one of the most efficient strategies to use in F1, particularly if you're on the wrong side of the grid.

Sato and Schumi used similar strategies in Brazil last year and got good results because they started or their race was compromised from being at the back of the grid.

[PSfan]

Are you kidding? That is one of the most efficient strategies to use in F1, particularly if you're on the wrong side of the grid.

Sato and Schumi used similar strategies in Brazil last year and got good results because they started or their race was compromised from being at the back of the grid.


Now your kidding right? Schumi was the first in that race to pit (blown tire), so can't use him as an example

Sato, Was already up to 12th before the 1st round of pit stops, so gaining possibly 1 position from pit strategy is hardly something to talk about (there was one more retirement near the end of the race. )

hardly prime examples of this strategies merits...

[wedge]

Now your kidding right? Schumi was the first in that race to pit (blown tire), so can't use him as an example

hardly prime examples of this strategies merits...

After the blown tire he did one long stint on a two-stopper.


Sato, Was already up to 12th before the 1st round of pit stops, so gaining possibly 1 position from pit strategy is hardly something to talk about (there was one more retirement near the end of the race. )

But he already pit-passed some of the cars because some the cars he did 'pass' had already done their pit-stops.

Doing 1 long stint (ideally, your first stint), preferably 1 stopping, is the best strategy. You lose too much time going in and out for your pit-stops

That's why most of the races in the late 90s were boring because everybody except for the Arrows had heavy fuel loads because they were 1 stopping.

[Schnell]

Also remember that the mirrors on F1 cars are largely decorative. In particular, the drivers can't see much if any of the back half of their own cars. A smoking engine probably isn't visible to a driver who needs to be paying just a little bit of attention to what is ahead of him.

The pit telemetry should catch these things, but Davidson doesn't have direct access to that information. If his engineer doesn't tell him to give it up and pull off, AD's job is to keep plugging on until something lets go.

ClarkFan

At last!...someone who understands a racing drivers job!...AD pulled over when the team told him to. It's a drivers job to get the car to the finishline if it still runs...e.g. as Parnelli Jones most famously did at Indy in 1963 as the course officials provarocated about putting out the mechanical flag (PJ was dropping oil) to 'our' favourite drivers disadvantage eh 'ClarkFan'.

I remember in 2000 Ant was leading a British Championship formula Ford race at Silverstone, whilst other team managers badgered the clerk of the course to black flag him. Ant battled on to win with an empty gearbox (a bolt had fallen out) I call that racing!...It's not a drivers job to park it, if it still runs, especially so near the end of the race!

Ant learned this lesson in International karting when he pulled into the pits with an engine problem, team boss (ex 1973 World champion Terry Fullerton) said what the 'eff' do you want me to do about it? Get back out there till it blows up!

Sorry you softboys it's called racing!

[jens]

Schnell, two interesting questions to you. :)

Every sportsman has his highs and lows. During Davidson's career in which moments have you felt that the future looks really bright and he might start fighting for top positions in F1? And in which moments have you felt that "Oh, current situation is really tough. We might not achieve our goals..."?

[ClarkFan]

...It's a drivers job to get the car to the finishline if it still runs...e.g. as Parnelli Jones most famously did at Indy in 1963 as the course officials provarocated about putting out the mechanical flag (PJ was dropping oil) to 'our' favourite drivers disadvantage eh 'ClarkFan'.

Yes, I remember that. The Indy establishment changed more slowly than the dinosaurs and they weren't about to let the furriner in the funny car win. Of course, in 1965, Clark finished 2 laps in front of Jones - who was also driving a Lotus by then!

May AD enjoy a similar reversal! :)

ClarkFan

[PSfan]

After the blown tire he did one long stint on a two-stopper.

But you still cannot use MS as a representative of this strategy. Stopping at lap 10 or 11 because I tire blows and going a long stint afterwards means he didn't have to suffer threw a heavy car at the start of the race when the lone first stint earns its biggest disadvantage. Also by the time of MS' pit the farthest back he could be was 17th, with the field already spread out.



But he already pit-passed some of the cars because some the cars he did 'pass' had already done their pit-stops.

Doing 1 long stint (ideally, your first stint), preferably 1 stopping, is the best strategy. You lose too much time going in and out for your pit-stops

That's why most of the races in the late 90s were boring because everybody except for the Arrows had heavy fuel loads because they were 1 stopping.

I'll repeat myself. Sato was up to 12 BEFORE the field (except for MS' blown tire) had their first pit. Sato finished 10th. So his pit strategy gained him little.

DC in the last two races is also a prime example. After his DNF in Bahrain, DC did a pit lane interview where he explained that they tried to run a heavy start in Malaysia but weren't happy with the results, and went with a more conventional strategy for Bahrain, and it was looking promising for a good result until the break down.


Sorry you softboys it's called racing!

Funny, I believe the speedtv boys refered to it as "unclassy"

[wedge]

But you still cannot use MS as a representative of this strategy. Stopping at lap 10 or 11 because I tire blows and going a long stint afterwards means he didn't have to suffer threw a heavy car at the start of the race when the lone first stint earns its biggest disadvantage. Also by the time of MS' pit the farthest back he could be was 17th, with the field already spread out.

Schumi was even more of a disadvantage!

Ideally you do the longest stint first and he still had to drive with a heavy fuel load.

If Massa wanted to, he could've lapped his team-mate!


I'll repeat myself. Sato was up to 12 BEFORE the field (except for MS' blown tire) had their first pit. Sato finished 10th. So his pit strategy gained him little.

Like I said every tenth of a second counts, none more so than the Aguris!


DC in the last two races is also a prime example. After his DNF in Bahrain, DC did a pit lane interview where he explained that they tried to run a heavy start in Malaysia but weren't happy with the results, and went with a more conventional strategy for Bahrain, and it was looking promising for a good result until the break down.

Every strategy has its flaws!

To do a long stint you have to have enough pace all through that stint, contend with a heavy fuel load, worry about about tyre degradation.

DC said the car didn't work well with a heavy fuel load. Most of teams mentioned that the tyres and grip level was different between the Malaysia test session and the GP itself, so I'm a bit surprised they didn't try that race strategy again in Bahrain. Then again, most of the teams said the soft tyres dropped off significantly after 20 laps in Bahrain.

Generally speaking, the best race strategy is to stay out for as long as possible and spend less time during pitstops - tyre performance/degradation permitting!

[Valve Bounce]

Are you kidding? That is one of the most efficient strategies to use in F1, particularly if you're on the wrong side of the grid.

Sato and Schumi used similar strategies in Brazil last year and got good results because they started or their race was compromised from being at the back of the grid.

Unfortunately, this strategy does not work that well this year. It was obvious that ant came in at half race distance for his first refuel, but the new tyre regs precludes a one stop strategy.

Also, coming in 2 or 3 laps after your opponent is beneficial; coming in so many laps after them by carrying a very much heavier fuel load does incur serious penalties in lap times.

I don't dare ask Schnell why they have this strategy, but I am sure they won't tell him; and even if they did, he sure as hell ain't going to tell me. :(

By the way, wedge, did you notice that ant, using the second hand car from last year qualified ahead of bunsen? and is driving faster than bunsen?

Probably not!!

[Valve Bounce]

Schnell, two interesting questions to you. :)

Every sportsman has his highs and lows. During Davidson's career in which moments have you felt that the future looks really bright and he might start fighting for top positions in F1? And in which moments have you felt that "Oh, current situation is really tough. We might not achieve our goals..."?

I think one of the highs must have been when ant was radioing his pits to complain that the "effing" Renault was holding him up last week.

The lows, at least for me, was when they put Sato ahead of ant as test driver with the view of sacking Jacques and replacing him with Sato in Japan. That set ant back several years, and some, including Schnell, thought that because bunsen has had many more years racing in F1 that he is now a better driver than ant.

Oh! ye of little faith!!.

But yeah!! that was a multi-year lingering low for me. :(

[wedge]

Unfortunately, this strategy does not work that well this year. It was obvious that ant came in at half race distance for his first refuel, but the new tyre regs precludes a one stop strategy.

In some ways true, because there's a significant difference (around 0.4s) between the different compounds, but Massa did come from the rear and finish 5th in Melbourne.


Also, coming in 2 or 3 laps after your opponent is beneficial; coming in so many laps after them by carrying a very much heavier fuel load does incur serious penalties in lap times.

Depends on the set up, how quick the car is on a long stint, how the car and driver can cope with a heavy fuel load, tyre degradation, etc.


I don't dare ask Schnell why they have this strategy, but I am sure they won't tell him; and even if they did, he sure as hell ain't going to tell me. :(

See above.

Ant's engineers would've analysed the data through a computer simulation. That's normally how teams base the strategies on.

In reality Ant got up to high as 6th and was on pace with the Toyotas


By the way, wedge, did you notice that ant, using the second hand car from last year qualified ahead of bunsen? and is driving faster than bunsen?

Probably not!!

So far this year, it's been hard not to!

PS. I've been a sceptical fan of Button for a number of years! ;)

[Valve Bounce]

Depends on the set up, how quick the car is on a long stint, how the car and driver can cope with a heavy fuel load, tyre degradation, etc.
;)

Whichever way you look at it, the heavier fuel load seriously affects lap times when a car comes in at around half race distance instead of one third race distance, no matter how the car is set up.

However, I think Martin did ask how come MacLaren didn't know Lewis could lap so fast on the hard compound.

I cannot see the logic at forcing all cars to use both compounds during a race - just another method of contriving more action in the pits to prevent spectators from falling asleep.


An interesting point here is that, had ant been fueled to come in around the same time as most other cars, would he have been able to pass Heiki on the lighter fuel load?

[PSfan]

Whichever way you look at it, the heavier fuel load seriously affects lap times when a car comes in at around half race distance instead of one third race distance, no matter how the car is set up.

Wow, something we agree on!!! :cheese:


However, I think Martin did ask how come MacLaren didn't know Lewis could lap so fast on the hard compound.

Late stages of the race can sometimes be deceptive, was Hamilton really that fast, or just everyone else not give a crap?


I cannot see the logic at forcing all cars to use both compounds during a race - just another method of contriving more action in the pits to prevent spectators from falling asleep.

It was Bridgestones idea, I think to possibly deflect any criticism they might recieve should a bad set of tires ruin somebody's race, or to avoid the potential of being accused of showing favoritism.


An interesting point here is that, had ant been fueled to come in around the same time as most other cars, would he have been able to pass Heiki on the lighter fuel load?

Ant was hounding Heikki during his 2nd stint, which based on their 2nd pit stops probably meant that Ant was Lighter, and had fresher tires.

[wedge]

An interesting point here is that, had ant been fueled to come in around the same time as most other cars, would he have been able to pass Heiki on the lighter fuel load?


Ant was hounding Heikki during his 2nd stint, which based on their 2nd pit stops probably meant that Ant was Lighter, and had fresher tires.

Because Ant was heavier on the first stint he only needed less fuel for the stints 2 & 3, hence Ant spent less time than his closest rivals in the pits:

http://www.formula1.com/race/result/pitstops/772/8.html

Unfortunately, the easiest way to overtake is to pit pass via a long fuel stint!

[Webslinger]

Well, I stuck with it and read every post, right up to the final post from Wedge earlier this afternoon.

What seems to be interesting is that following Bahrain, the Davidson 'knockers' have been in relative short supply, unlike the responses after the two opening races of the season..? No doubt this post will stir them from their slumber, eh?

The sad part with a lot of people on forums is that the closest they ever get to racing, is the armchair in front of the TV, but one has to admit that doing this certainly makes them all experts. Apart from the fact that all an expert means, is that 'x' is an unknown quantity, and 'spurt' is a drip under pressure.

Australia - an eye witness (on this forum) who was spectating on the actual corner confirms it was a Sutil mistake. But for that who knows, but... I have been assured (I'm a journo so I make a point of asking questions) that the aero loss from the Sutil damage was around 10%-12%, which is a significant loss. Put that together with Davidson's determination to finish (OK, sensible people would have made a bee-line for the nearest doctor, but then racing drivers are not necessarily sensible), in a car that was handling badly, resulted in a pretty impressive lap time. All told it was a good debut for Super Aguri.

Malaysia - hmm, man flu! Who hasn't had it? It bug*ers up the system, makes you feel lousy, and just driving home from work is bad enough, let alone trying to pull upwards of 5g in corners and on the brakes. Compare that with a recalcitrant throttle response off the grid, in the pits, and in the race, when all you want is a tissue to wipe your runny nose and have a long hot bath..? For my money (my observed opinion) it was another fine race in the circumstances. Hardly awe-inspiring in a point scoring sort of way, granted, but would even Schumacher have performed much better given an identically troublesome car and certain human physiological ailments?

Bahrain - ah yes, Bahrain! Where Davidson (my opinion again...) shone. He was stunning in free practice, and equally stunning in race morning warm-up. He breezed Q1, and probably would also have breezed Q2, but for a poor mid-sector when the car was unsettled by the changing windconditions. "Yeah, but everybody would have been affected", I hear the response, except the conditions were gusting, not steady. So no, not everybody would have been equally affected. Unlucky, but 13th ain't bad and a top 10 beckons for sure quite soon!!

And the race? The run to sixth was exciting, and yes, he did have the legs of Sato this time. Personally I would have over-ruled the computer and gone for a one-stop. And I have to agree with Schnell about not stopping. You do not argue with someone like Terry Fullerton. If he says break the damn thing before stopping, you break it, no questions asked! Like someone said earlier, Hamilton was smoking (and laying oil..?), but was he asked to stop? I did my journo bit a delved int the background seeking answers. Granted, Davidson eventually saw smoke, but the engine was pulling sweetly, right up until he parked it. He could have been experiencing a "Hamilton" for all he knew. Calling him an "idiot" was uncalled for in the circumstances.

I'm happy to call it 2-1 to Takuma for now, and go on record by saying that Sato is a good driver, if only to acknowledge the Ant 'knockers' before they come back on the forum and try a bit of character assassination in my direction. But Davidson turned the tables in 2001 and (in my humble opinion, sad, I know...) he will do the same in 2007. Sato has already said, post-Bahrain, that he accepts his team-mate is out for revenge. The Japanese ace knows that he has to raise his game to avoid 2-2 in Spain, and trail 3-2 the race after. Do you think I could get good odds at Ladbrokes..?

And does anyone here really think that Davidson will not shine at Monaco? Of all the races this year Monaco is the one where I expect the little Brit to pull a few aces of his own. If I'm wrong then come back and give me some stick, but make sure you do it from a position of logic and strength. Do your research first and retaliate with a calculated, measured response. Ask questions to get answers - a bit like I do really.

I'm always up for a good debate if people approach the 'argument' in the right way.

[ArrowsFA1]

I'm always up for a good debate if people approach the 'argument' in the right way.
And you're very welcome to our forum because of it :up:

[PSfan]

Because Ant was heavier on the first stint he only needed less fuel for the stints 2 & 3, hence Ant spent less time than his closest rivals in the pits:

http://www.formula1.com/race/result/pitstops/772/8.html!


Unfortunately, the easiest way to overtake is to pit pass via a long fuel stint!

Well while I was double checking the dots, I noticed that Ant had actually did catch up Heiki in the first stint. Despite the 3 laps extra laps Davidson put in before his first stop, and about 1 sec less of pit time, He wasn't able to pit pass Heikki. Now the interesting part here is the fact that Heikki spent less time in the pits that Davidson in total (A fact that I had noticed on the visionf1 racing dots stats, but thanks to the link you provided, it is shown in more detail.) Which suggests that Kovie had more fuel at the start (I suspect maybe they had started on almost equal fuel loads but their strategies may have differed slightly in that perhaps Hiekki's first window was a set lap prior to the race, and Davidson's was probably influenced by the short safety car period. )

I was gonna correct myself, but then when I noticed my response sort of answered Valve Bounce's question anyway, I choose to go to bed instead :p :)


Unfortunately, the easiest way to overtake is to pit pass via a long fuel stint!

Well considering Ant Qualified 13th, and after his first stop had come out 14th and now on similar fuel as everyone else tells me this strategy didn't work.

[Robinho]

Well, I stuck with it and read every post, right up to the final post from Wedge earlier this afternoon.

What seems to be interesting is that following Bahrain, the Davidson 'knockers' have been in relative short supply, unlike the responses after the two opening races of the season..? No doubt this post will stir them from their slumber, eh?

The sad part with a lot of people on forums is that the closest they ever get to racing, is the armchair in front of the TV, but one has to admit that doing this certainly makes them all experts. Apart from the fact that all an expert means, is that 'x' is an unknown quantity, and 'spurt' is a drip under pressure.

Australia - an eye witness (on this forum) who was spectating on the actual corner confirms it was a Sutil mistake. But for that who knows, but... I have been assured (I'm a journo so I make a point of asking questions) that the aero loss from the Sutil damage was around 10%-12%, which is a significant loss. Put that together with Davidson's determination to finish (OK, sensible people would have made a bee-line for the nearest doctor, but then racing drivers are not necessarily sensible), in a car that was handling badly, resulted in a pretty impressive lap time. All told it was a good debut for Super Aguri.

Malaysia - hmm, man flu! Who hasn't had it? It bug*ers up the system, makes you feel lousy, and just driving home from work is bad enough, let alone trying to pull upwards of 5g in corners and on the brakes. Compare that with a recalcitrant throttle response off the grid, in the pits, and in the race, when all you want is a tissue to wipe your runny nose and have a long hot bath..? For my money (my observed opinion) it was another fine race in the circumstances. Hardly awe-inspiring in a point scoring sort of way, granted, but would even Schumacher have performed much better given an identically troublesome car and certain human physiological ailments?

Bahrain - ah yes, Bahrain! Where Davidson (my opinion again...) shone. He was stunning in free practice, and equally stunning in race morning warm-up. He breezed Q1, and probably would also have breezed Q2, but for a poor mid-sector when the car was unsettled by the changing windconditions. "Yeah, but everybody would have been affected", I hear the response, except the conditions were gusting, not steady. So no, not everybody would have been equally affected. Unlucky, but 13th ain't bad and a top 10 beckons for sure quite soon!!

And the race? The run to sixth was exciting, and yes, he did have the legs of Sato this time. Personally I would have over-ruled the computer and gone for a one-stop. And I have to agree with Schnell about not stopping. You do not argue with someone like Terry Fullerton. If he says break the damn thing before stopping, you break it, no questions asked! Like someone said earlier, Hamilton was smoking (and laying oil..?), but was he asked to stop? I did my journo bit a delved int the background seeking answers. Granted, Davidson eventually saw smoke, but the engine was pulling sweetly, right up until he parked it. He could have been experiencing a "Hamilton" for all he knew. Calling him an "idiot" was uncalled for in the circumstances.

I'm happy to call it 2-1 to Takuma for now, and go on record by saying that Sato is a good driver, if only to acknowledge the Ant 'knockers' before they come back on the forum and try a bit of character assassination in my direction. But Davidson turned the tables in 2001 and (in my humble opinion, sad, I know...) he will do the same in 2007. Sato has already said, post-Bahrain, that he accepts his team-mate is out for revenge. The Japanese ace knows that he has to raise his game to avoid 2-2 in Spain, and trail 3-2 the race after. Do you think I could get good odds at Ladbrokes..?

And does anyone here really think that Davidson will not shine at Monaco? Of all the races this year Monaco is the one where I expect the little Brit to pull a few aces of his own. If I'm wrong then come back and give me some stick, but make sure you do it from a position of logic and strength. Do your research first and retaliate with a calculated, measured response. Ask questions to get answers - a bit like I do really.

I'm always up for a good debate if people approach the 'argument' in the right way.


great post and welcome to the forum, your input is very welcome, and i, for one, pretty much agree wholeheartedly with your opinions on Ant and the 1st three races, enjoy the little debates, some get a little out of hand and personal but on the whole we do alright in here, if you know where to look there are some gems of information and insight :up:

[Garry Walker]

I couldn't believe it when ant got up to 6th place before pitting, but the present regs do not allow him to run the rest of the race on a one stopper; he had to make a second pit stop for the hard tyres, so all that is academic.


Present regs allow a one-stopper, do you even understand the rules?



Malaysia - hmm, man flu! Who hasn't had it? It bug*ers up the system, makes you feel lousy, and just driving home from work is bad enough, let alone trying to pull upwards of 5g in corners and on the brakes. Compare that with a recalcitrant throttle response off the grid, in the pits, and in the race, when all you want is a tissue to wipe your runny nose and have a long hot bath..? For my money (my observed opinion) it was another fine race in the circumstances. Hardly awe-inspiring in a point scoring sort of way, granted, but would even Schumacher have performed much better given an identically troublesome car and certain human physiological ailments?.

Schumacher had a bad case of Flu back at the Europe GP in 2001, and bang, he won the race easily.
Please dont insult Schumacher by comparing him to a driver of Davidsons calibre. Its like comparing boxing heavyweight world champion with a 4 year old girl.

[Valve Bounce]

I'm happy to call it 2-1 to Takuma for now, and go on record by saying that Sato is a good driver, if only to acknowledge the Ant 'knockers' before they come back on the forum and try a bit of character assassination in my direction. But Davidson turned the tables in 2001 and (in my humble opinion, sad, I know...) he will do the same in 2007. Sato has already said, post-Bahrain, that he accepts his team-mate is out for revenge. The Japanese ace knows that he has to raise his game to avoid 2-2 in Spain, and trail 3-2 the race after. Do you think I could get good odds at Ladbrokes..?


You're barking up the wrong tree here, my friend. Taco is out of the equation, and it is Heiki that is in the cross hairs. :)

Just thought I'd let you know - I do not respond to jibes from the two guys who have straddled Robinho's post as they are on my ignore list. Their posts do not appear on my screen.

And a very big welcome to you to our forum; I hope we have more input from you in the future. :up:

[Garry Walker]

Just thought I'd let you know - I do not respond to jibes from the two guys who have straddled Robinho's post as they are on my ignore list. Their posts do not appear on my screen.


We all know I am on your ignore list, as is everyone else who dares to question Ants superior skills, you have said it for at least 15 times.

[PSfan]

You're barking up the wrong tree here, my friend. Taco is out of the equation, and it is Heiki that is in the cross hairs. :)

BWAHAHAHAHAHAA! cough cough cough.... Sorry when did Valve become such a comedian.

Hear's where I find it most amusing, Taco out of the equation HAHAHAHA!!!

Sorry, I'll try to be serious here... After 3 races we have seen 1 Aguri make it 1 session farther in qualifying then the other. A quick look at the post Qualifying Quotes reveals not one mention from Sato regarding Davidson the 2 times he out qualified him. Davidson finaly bests him in a Qualifying round, and we get the "The good thing is I beat my team mate" why? Because its special to the Ant, and PAR FOR THE COURSE for Sato!!!

2-1??? I would score that 4-1 including Qualifying rounds for Sato, or 2-0 if only based on race results because if neither car finishes, and on vastly different Strategies, then we will never know who would have came out on top!!!

Heikki's in Ants sites!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Sorry, its easy to laugh when I know he's not gonna read it anyway (unless someone quotes me... please someone quote this :cheese:

Before Heikki and Davidson made their first pit stops, Davidson was within about 2 secs back of Heikki. Despite extra laps of running, and 1 second faster in the pits, Davidson could not pit pass Heikki, WHy not?

Then during their second stints, despite fresher tires by 3 laps, and being on lighter fuel, the Ant still couldn't get passed Heikki!!! once again Valve, why is that?


Just thought I'd let you know - I do not respond to jibes from the two guys who have straddled Robinho's post as they are on my ignore list. Their posts do not appear on my screen.

Hmmm this is a shocker!!! Valve posting about his ignore list without bringing up genital cranium. I'm amased.


And a very big welcome to you to our forum; I hope we have more input from you in the future. :up:

Yah, welcome to the board Webslinger, hope we don't drive you away with some of the bickering :p : its all in good fun :cheese:

[aryan]

It is refreshing to see people like Webslinger join the forum.

Welcome onboard mate! hope to see more of you around here.

[jens]

As you are talking about flu, then if I remember correctly, then Alonso scored his career's first podium place (2003 Malaysia) whilst being in flu.

[jso1985]

Schumacher scored a win in San Marino 2003 with a much worse situation than having just flu.
Don't take me wrong but 3 races and I still haven't seen what Valve and other see on Davidson

[BDunnell]

Schumacher scored a win in San Marino 2003 with a much worse situation than having just flu.
Don't take me wrong but 3 races and I still haven't seen what Valve and other see on Davidson

Let's face it, he's in a car that may be surprisingly good on the grounds that it's getting ahead of the Hondas, but is far from being a race-winner or even a regular points scorer, given the reliability in F1 nowadays.

[Valve Bounce]

Schumacher scored a win in San Marino 2003 with a much worse situation than having just flu.
Don't take me wrong but 3 races and I still haven't seen what Valve and other see on Davidson


I guess you and I were watching different races on Easter Sunday - your bunnies must have been doing better. :D

[PSfan]

I also find it a little ironic that after all the wild Sato crashing predictions by the Davidson fans, that it would be the Ant that would be the first of the Aguri's to do something really boneheaded. We'll just chalk that one up to lack of race experience, but I don't buy the "he didn't know theory" because A) pit telemetry should have told them something wrong, and B) the fact that it started to go while Hamilton was behind, so if he's not checking his mirrors to see who he should be letting by him when the blue flags are waving, then somethings wrong.


Oh yes, I'm quoting myself again, why? cause I just love it when I'm right :p :

or at least, very close to being almost right... :cheese:


I think Taku had a similar thing, for three or laps beforehand we felt the power was down, and then I felt it again exiting on to the straight the last time. I checked in the mirror because I knew Lewis was catching me up, and then I saw blue smoke – and it all made sense from what I had felt a few laps before. I tried to make it back to the pits, but the team told me to stop.

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/36834/


So what have we learned from the Ant this year? Well I like his honesty. hopefully he's learned from this as well, and next time it happens, he'll stay off the racing line when trying to nurse his smoking car to the pits.

Anyway back to your debate on the impact "Man Flu" had on Davidson's Malaysian GP :)

[Valve Bounce]

Here is an interesting interview with ant from Formula1.com. I thought I'd post the link here for ant's many fans here to enjoy: http://www.formula1.com/news/5982.html

[Schnell]

Reading some of that childish tripe, above makes me realise how pityfully little a very few here know or understand about F1, or the cars.
Hekki actually said to Ant after the race "you nearly got me"!
Do you children have any understanding of the difference between a grandee manufacturers team and their massive resources, compared to a tiny new team with far less up to date equipment? Are you really that illinformed? A great David & Goliath battle was apparently completely lost on you! How sad you are!

Also for the record, the engine didn't blow up! It was in running order, right up till he parked and switched it off, at the teams request. One to preserve it for examination, and two, to avoid an engine change penalty.

Without your 'armchair advantage' of outside cameras, he had no idea it was losing oil, until it oiled the rear tyres and caused oversteer.
If you arn't impressed by him qualifying half way up the grid and running mid-field the entire race, not to mention running 6th at one point, the highest place Aguri have run in, ever. Then you will never will be!...So clear off, you're done here, you are exposed for knowing nothing about the subject, you are a laughing stock amongst the majority here, that clearly do!

[jso1985]

OK I can't deny Davidson a had a quite good race in Bahrain, but in my view the fight between a fully developed 2006 Honda and the worst Renault in years isn't certainly a David & Goliath one.
I'm not saying Davidson sucks, but I still haven't seen something that would put him in my "great drivers" list.

[BeansBeansBeans]

I'm not saying Davidson sucks, but I still haven't seen something that would put him in my "great drivers" list.

Well in fairness, nobody can be placed alongside Fangio, Senna, Prost...et al after three Grands Prix (or 6, if you count his sporadic appearances from 2002-2005) and nobody is genuinely claiming that Davidson should be placed amongst that group, but it's hard to deny that he has done a good job so far. There is too much bickering and mud-slinging on this thread and not enough level-headed analysis of his performances thus far.

[jso1985]

agree! :up:
he's doing a fine job but to dream about being a winning driver he needs to start beating Sato easily and constantly

[Valve Bounce]

agree! :up:
he's doing a fine job but to dream about being a winning driver he needs to start beating Sato easily and constantly
...........or be given a drive in a top team like Renault. :rolleyes:

[jso1985]

of course he needs a top car to win, but to get the to car you must show first you can beat easily your badly-rated team mate

[Valve Bounce]

of course he needs a top car to win, but to get the to car you must show first you can beat easily your badly-rated team mate


................or Heiki. ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

What are the odds on Ant replacing Rubens at Honda in 2008?

[raphael123]

Isn't Rubens contracted for 3yrs? His final year being next year.
And I doubt they'd replace a guy struggling to match Sato, let alone beat him, with a guy who gave Michael Schumacher a run for his money on a number of occasions.

Saying that, if Rubens starts to fall a long way behind Button, and Davidson starts beating Sato consistently, by the end of the year, then all is possible :)

[BeansBeansBeans]

What are the odds on Ant replacing Rubens at Honda in 2008?

If he continues to perform as he did in Bahrain, and proves that he is as good a racer as he is a tester, then it's a strong possiblity. It would be fascinating to see how he would get on against Jenson Button.

[Valve Bounce]

If he continues to perform as he did in Bahrain, and proves that he is as good a racer as he is a tester, then it's a strong possiblity. It would be fascinating to see how he would get on against Jenson Button.

He has raced bunsen from age 8, I believe. It would be interesting to see where all this would lead to. I do not believe that ant's future would be improved by his beating Sato; at best this could only be classified as inconsequential. Ant has to go out there and beat the likes of Heiki, Ralfie, or anyone else in the better cars/teams to prove himself to the other team principals. People like Frank Williams, Flavio, Ron Dennis, etc would have to make favourable comments for ant's position to rise in F1. That's what I believe.

[Ranger]

What are the odds on Ant replacing Rubens at Honda in 2008?

Depends on
a) Whether or not Button beats Barrichello.
b) Whether or not Sato beats Davidson.

In both cases the former seems to have the advantage on the latter at the moment, so there would have to be a significant performance gap to convince Honda to take that chance. Rubens doesn't want to retire and if he is close to Button at year's end then I don't think Honda will replace him, especially if Davidson is only close to Sato.

[Webslinger]

Reading some of that childish tripe, above makes me realise how pityfully little a very few here know or understand about F1, or the cars.
Hekki actually said to Ant after the race "you nearly got me"!
Do you children have any understanding of the difference between a grandee manufacturers team and their massive resources, compared to a tiny new team with far less up to date equipment? Are you really that illinformed? A great David & Goliath battle was apparently completely lost on you! How sad you are!

Also for the record, the engine didn't blow up! It was in running order, right up till he parked and switched it off, at the teams request. One to preserve it for examination, and two, to avoid an engine change penalty.

Without your 'armchair advantage' of outside cameras, he had no idea it was losing oil, until it oiled the rear tyres and caused oversteer.
If you arn't impressed by him qualifying half way up the grid and running mid-field the entire race, not to mention running 6th at one point, the highest place Aguri have run in, ever. Then you will never will be!...So clear off, you're done here, you are exposed for knowing nothing about the subject, you are a laughing stock amongst the majority here, that clearly do!

With the information available to him, I think it would be rather remiss of anyone to argue with Schnell. He is not going to say anything on this forum that is not factual, so the rest simply comes down to opinions.

Why do we have this attitude against certain drivers without foundation? How many posters here have actually spoken to Davidson and really got to know the man? There are far too many who "have a mate who says..." so it must be true.

It's a peculiar part of the human psyche to 'hate' someone without really understanding why? When Davidson won his first F3 race at Croft in 2001, I was in the winners enclosure when I heard Davidson Snr shout: "Well done mate, hope it's the first of many!" A response from someone in the crowd? "I hope not!" What a strange individual, but fortunately Davidson Snr proved to be right and the ignorant heckler was wrong. It would be satisfying to know the heckler was actually reading this forum now...

Unlike Schnell though I am not so sure that Davidson will be able to avoid the engine penalty in Spain. I have not picked up on any news about this, so presumably Honda are still looking at the engine to see if it is salveageble for Barcelona?

[BeansBeansBeans]

How many posters here have actually spoken to Davidson and really got to know the man? There are far too many who "have a mate who says..." so it must be true.

Hang on a minute. I've never really met a racing driver in my life. Does that mean my opinions are redundant? It's great to have the likes of yourself and Schnell (insiders, if you like) on here, but don't fall into the trap of thinking that all armchair fans are ignorant and ill-informed.

[Valve Bounce]

Hang on a minute. I've never really met a racing driver in my life. Does that mean my opinions are redundant? It's great to have the likes of yourself and Schnell (insiders, if you like) on here, but don't fall into the trap of thinking that all armchair fans are ignorant and ill-informed.

I'll go along with your argument for the sake of using it as an example; however, there are many here who have posted negative remarks here without due consideration to the facts or in fact what has occurred in races.

Take Rafael: he thinks that ant is not even likely to be able to beat Sato, and he bases ants future on ant being able to beat Sato. What about ant's race in Bahrein? The guy was actually attacking Heiki, and was ahead of Wurz - and this is in last year's Honda run by a budget team. Can you guys not appreciate how well ant drove at Bahrein?

Sure Beans! your opinion is what you think - what Webslinger and schnell are telling you is what they know from inside information they are privy to.

I am willing to stake my sig on ant beating some of the higher rated drivers in better teams this year in a fair battle, so are any of you guys out there willing to take me on? (No! I don't mean Sato here!)

[Valve Bounce]

Unlike Schnell though I am not so sure that Davidson will be able to avoid the engine penalty in Spain. I have not picked up on any news about this, so presumably Honda are still looking at the engine to see if it is salveageble for Barcelona?

I was under the impression that if a driver's engine blows up in a race, he can use a new engine in the next race without penalty. Does anyone know what the regs say about blown engines for sure?

[Webslinger]

I thought I was sure, but I've now spoken to two different people on the subject this morning - both had differing views so now I'm wavering.

I cannot remember for sure if a driver needs to be classified as a retirement, or as a finisher, as in having done sufficient laps/mileage to be posted in the results. Davidson was classified in the results as finishing six laps down, even though he was not running at the finish.

So where does that leave him for Spain..? Where he qualifies or minus 10..? Barcelona is not really expected to be a Super Aguri track, but it would be rather ironic to have the no.23 SAF1 making the third timed session, and then being given a grid penalty.

[Webslinger]

I cannot remember for sure if a driver needs to be classified as a retirement, or as a finisher, as in having done sufficient laps/mileage to be posted in the results. Davidson was classified in the results as finishing six laps down, even though he was not running at the finish.

I trawled a few web-sites using Google search, got a lot of hits, but nothing definite to explain the engine situation. I did find this though:

"The FIA has confirmed that David Coulthard will not suffer a 10-place grid penalty in Malaysia this weekend, despite widespread belief that he would be moved towards the back of the grid for an engine change before qualifying.
Both Barrichello and Coulthard had changed their engines after practice and before qualifying, although in fact Coulthard's engine change had taken place before the start of practice. Coulthard suffers no penalty for his engine change, because he did not finish the season-opening Australian Grand Prix."

So does it come down to "finishing" the race as I said earlier? If you are not classified in the results then there would not be an engine penalty, but if you are classified, then there will be?

As I understand it Davidson was classified in the results, so again does that mean he will have to carry a penalty into the next race if Honda have to replace the engine?

[ArrowsFA1]

I was under the impression that if a driver's engine blows up in a race, he can use a new engine in the next race without penalty.
Wasn't this the reason Button pulled up just before the line when his Honda lunched itself at the end of one race :confused:

[Valve Bounce]

Wasn't this the reason Button pulled up just before the line when his Honda lunched itself at the end of one race :confused:


Wait a minute - did that engine lunch itself, or did Honda simply park his car so that they could change the engine for the next race. I might be mistaken here, but by doing so, didn't he actually throw away a point in the championship? My memory is not as good as it used to be - old age!! :(

[BeansBeansBeans]

Wait a minute - did that engine lunch itself, or did Honda simply park his car so that they could change the engine for the next race.

Probably a bit of both. It definitely lunched itself in spectacular fashion, but he was close enough to cross the finish line. However, he pulled up short.

[ShiftingGears]

For me I don't see that as an act of a racing driver. Especially since the next grand prix (was it Imola?) went downhill for Button, as I remember.

[Valve Bounce]

For me I don't see that as an act of a racing driver. Especially since the next grand prix (was it Imola?) went downhill for Button, as I remember.


Now I remember!! yeah! bunsen could have made it to the line and actually gain one or more championship points. But Honda pulled the car off the track so that they would not be penalised for an engine change at the next race. I remember we had quite a heated debate about this in the forum.

[BeansBeansBeans]

For me I don't see that as an act of a racing driver.

He was only following orders from his team.

[ShiftingGears]

Ahh my mistake then. Bad call from Honda IMO.

[Valve Bounce]

Ahh my mistake then. Bad call from Honda IMO.


Yeah!! we were all saying it would be funny if bunsen lost the championship by those couple of points. :D

[ClarkFan]

What are the odds on Ant replacing Rubens at Honda in 2008?

I would say that they are pretty good, especially if Honda continues to struggle with car development. My recollection is that Rubens signed a 2-year deal, so that seat is in play for 2008. For all the telemetry in the current cars, the engineers still need someone driving the car who can tell them what the changes do to the on-track "feel" of the car and how they affect the driver's ability to confidently take the car near its limits. Good development drivers do a better job of translating "feelings" (i.e. lack of grip) into explanations the engineers can work with. As an example Sebastien Bourdais was hired into his present ChampCar ride because he did a better job of communicating with the engineers than another driver who was equally fast.

Davidson is apparently good in that role, based on the comments Honda technical staff have made about him. If management decide they need that ability in the mother ship, it improves his chances for a 2008 ride.

ClarkFan

P.S. Button's car was on fire in Melbourne last year, but could have coasted over the line in 6th. Some bright boy in the pits (Fry?) decided to park it to get a new engine without penalty at Imola, sacrificing points in hand for a prospective grid position. That decision was properly rewarded by the Racing Gods, and Honda had a succession of dismal race meetings.

[Schnell]

I was under the impression that if a driver's engine blows up in a race, he can use a new engine in the next race without penalty. Does anyone know what the regs say about blown engines for sure?

Correct!

[PSfan]

Reading some of that childish tripe, above makes me realise how pityfully little a very few here know or understand about F1, or the cars.
Hekki actually said to Ant after the race "you nearly got me"!
Do you children have any understanding of the difference between a grandee manufacturers team and their massive resources, compared to a tiny new team with far less up to date equipment? Are you really that illinformed? A great David & Goliath battle was apparently completely lost on you! How sad you are!

I guess alternatively Heikki could of said "Man you where lighter, had fresher tires, and I'm still learning how to race these things, why couldn't you pass me?" But then I guess its easy for Heikki to say "You nearly got me" knowing full well he would have gotten the position back after the final pit stops.

David and Golliath, sure I'll I agree with that analogy, but it sure looks like poor Golliath has come to this fight not only hung over, but wearing a cast on both legs. Now an Super Aguri threatning to finish ahead of a Renault is still a great feet, but lets face some facts here, The Ant/Heikki battle was very artificial, Davidson coming out from his 2nd pit stop in 13th, while Heikki came out where he went in, in 9th. And another fact that shouldn't lost when putting Davidson's race in perspective, Had everybody who completed their 2nd pit stops had finished the race, Ant would have finished 13th, same position he started from ooohhhh I guess that result would have warrented a parade or something!!!


Also for the record, the engine didn't blow up! It was in running order, right up till he parked and switched it off, at the teams request. One to preserve it for examination, and two, to avoid an engine change penalty.

So which was it? examination or to avoid a penalty? Can't have both, FIA would have stamped so many seals on that engine that any examination would have meant a new engine anyways. Of course we know that there would be no penalty because of his DNF...

Oh and I expect after 2 other Honda engines went off like grenades, I'm sure they'll want to dissect Ants engine anyway to see if the smoke and sputtering was related, and maybe find what the cause of the fireworks was...

Besides, I new engine for spain might be preferable to having one's engine site in a crate for 4 weeks...


Without your 'armchair advantage' of outside cameras, he had no idea it was losing oil, until it oiled the rear tyres and caused oversteer.

My statement was If he saw smoke, felt a noticable loss of power, and was indeed heading to the pit (As he has been quoted as saying on that speedtv article,) He should have been off the racing line, now your saying that added to that he felt his tires where getting greased up?!? And it still took the radio call to park it before he would get off the racing line!!! That is truely shamefull

And I may be an "Arm chair no-nothing" but I can probably produce a good 40 sec audio snipet from the Speedtv broadcast that supports my position on this particular subject...


If you arn't impressed by him qualifying half way up the grid and running mid-field the entire race,

13th isn't his best qualifying position, though not losing positions at the end of the race would have been worthy of some praise.

Sato Qualified 14th and finished 13th in Malaysia, So I guess Davidson Qualifying 13th and finishing 12th would represent a very huge achievement!!!


not to mention running 6th at one point, the highest place Aguri have run in, ever.

Running 6th was very artificial. If the race strategy netted any gains then maybe being as high as 6th would have meant something. But after the pit stop fun and games where over, he was running where he qualified, not something worthy of song yet.


Then you will never will be!...So clear off, you're done here, you are exposed for knowing nothing about the subject, you are a laughing stock amongst the majority here, that clearly do!

I guess I never learn :cheese:

[PSfan]

I thought I was sure, but I've now spoken to two different people on the subject this morning - both had differing views so now I'm wavering.

I cannot remember for sure if a driver needs to be classified as a retirement, or as a finisher, as in having done sufficient laps/mileage to be posted in the results. Davidson was classified in the results as finishing six laps down, even though he was not running at the finish.

So where does that leave him for Spain..? Where he qualifies or minus 10..? Barcelona is not really expected to be a Super Aguri track, but it would be rather ironic to have the no.23 SAF1 making the third timed session, and then being given a grid penalty.

Acording to what I could dig up:

87) a) Each driver may use no more than one engine for two consecutive Events in which his team competes. Should a driver use a replacement engine before the end of the qualifying practice session he will drop ten places on the starting grid at that Event each time a further engine is used. Unless the driver fails to finish the race (see below) the engine fitted to the car at the end of the Event must remain in it until the end of the next. Any driver who failed to finish the race at the first of the two Events for reasons beyond the control of the team or driver, may start the second with a different engine without a penalty being incurred.

I'm not sure if they have changed this, I haven't found this on any of the regs I've dloaded yet (I'm probably only finding the upgrades, and not the full regulations) But it is the newer one that prevents teams from pulling into the pits on the last lap when they know they aren't gonna finish in the points... (its got the "beyond the control of the team or driver" wording that was added after I believe Honda parked their cars when it was obvious they wheren't gonna finish in the points one race...)

[Garry Walker]

Do you children have any understanding of the difference between a grandee manufacturers team and their massive resources, compared to a tiny new team with far less up to date equipment?

You mean a team like Toyota compared to a team like Williams for example? Resources arent everything. This years Super Aguri seems to suit the BS tyres well and is probably almost as quick as the Renault or just as quick on other occasions (only driven by lesser drivers).


Well in fairness, nobody can be placed alongside Fangio, Senna, Prost...et al after three Grands Prix (or 6, if you count his sporadic appearances from 2002-2005) and nobody is genuinely claiming that Davidson should be placed amongst that group, but it's hard to deny that he has done a good job so far. There is too much bickering and mud-slinging on this thread and not enough level-headed analysis of his performances thus far.

Davidson was beaten in 2 qualys and in 2 races by his teammate. Id say he has done an ok of a job, nothing special. nothing to warrant an F1 seat for next year for example.

Unlike Schnell though I am not so sure that Davidson will be able to avoid the engine penalty in Spain. I have not picked up on any news about this, so presumably Honda are still looking at the engine to see if it is salveageble for Barcelona?

Considering you have tried to make yourself look "like an insider", then I can only assume from this part of your post that you in reality have no understanding of F1 or its rules at all.
Davidson can use a new engine next race without a penalty, or if they think the Bahrain engine will last, then they can use that one. Without a penalty.


Sure Beans! your opinion is what you think - what Webslinger and schnell are telling you is what they know from inside information they are privy to.


I repeat some piece of insider information I have from a journalist writing for one of the top racing magazines in world - Journos who have actually met Davidson, regard him as an arrogant and extremely unpleasant person.

[Webslinger]

I repeat some piece of insider information I have from a journalist writing for one of the top racing magazines in world - Journos who have actually met Davidson, regard him as an arrogant and extremely unpleasant person.

Astonishing..!

[Ian McC]

I repeat some piece of insider information I have from a journalist writing for one of the top racing magazines in world - Journos who have actually met Davidson, regard him as an arrogant and extremely unpleasant person.


You will excuse me if I treat that as utter garbage.

[PSfan]

I repeat some piece of insider information I have from a journalist writing for one of the top racing magazines in world - Journos who have actually met Davidson, regard him as an arrogant and extremely unpleasant person.


Astonishing..!


You will excuse me if I treat that as utter garbage.

Here we go again!!!

For the record, I really don't care how Davidson treats the media, heck I might have more respect for Ant if what Gerry says is true (providing I have enough of the details to make a proper determination of how He really treats the press...) But as far as I'm concerned, it's how Davidson races thats important, not how he treats the "Journos"

However, it must be also noted that the Speedtv commentators where rather harsh on him which may suggest he hasn't done anything to warrent the press giving him the benefit of the doubt (On the speedtv debrief program they used the word Un-profensional to describe Ants little 40 seconds of smoke screen) which may support Gerry's claim to a small extent, if he was good to the press the press would be good to him...

[Webslinger]

I was promised fun and games when I came on here just a few short days ago - forum reputation has been lived up to then, eh..?

Garry, just so we understand each other, there are journalists... and then there are journalists... Some do not get what they want and write and/or speak tripe in revenge. They want the juicy page 3 type stuff and after failing with that, then have to make stuff up. There are others who write what they want, when they want, some stuff factual, other stuff borderline, but usually quite readable material. Then there are the 'Webslinger's' of the world, who only write and/or speak what they have personally been told, witnessed it personally (i've been called to give evidence in driver hearings before), or I've got it down on tape. Anything such journo's like me are unsure about means they will not go into print until it has been confirmed.

Now like you (sic) I have very high placed contacts, people I respect and who have far more technical knowledge than I will ever have, simply because the subject bores me - I have no intention of committing to memory the intricacies of F1 regulations, when more clever people can do the research for me. But when I talk to two such individuals who I readily acknowledge know more than me, but give me two different points of view, I do not thrust ahead being all wise as I view my kingdom, but I step back and ask for feedback. It seems coming on the forum and asking a simple question from 'experts' was maybe asking for too much..?

It's not a bad way to go through life doing it my way and I get a lot of respect because of it. The drivers who know me trust me, because they know that I will not stab them in the back. Equally as well, they know that I know if I shaft them for the sake of a juicy story, my relationship goes out the window faster than Hamilton leaves the grid in a McLaren, if you get my drift!

If Davidson was in the slightest way arrogant I would never approach him. If Hamilton was the same, I would never approach him either. But I can honestly say that in both cases, those drivers are a journo's dream. If they see me, they speak to me, make me feel important, giving me whatever information I ask for, including stuff that might at the time "be off the record".

Are they testing me? Maybe... Davidson once told me something and I did not tell his dad, although his dad gave me some stick for it. From my point of view it was "off the record", so it went no further, but I could have made a good story out of it. It would have been my only scoop mind, because I would not have got another!

Respect works both ways, but you have to earn it to enjoy it. Which begs one question Garry, are your high-placed (sic) journo's trustworthy, or have they done something to Davidson that might have upset him? Did he give them a confidence that was betrayed? The only way we will know for sure is to name them. Send me a PM if you have to ("off the record" info away from the forum obviously), and I will seek the oracle for advice.

As I said earlier, fun and games, fun and games...

[ClarkFan]

I was promised fun and games when I came on here just a few short days ago - forum reputation has been lived up to then, eh..?
......
It seems coming on the forum and asking a simple question from 'experts' was maybe asking for too much..?
...

Fun and games you can get here. But as for experts........hope you can be fulfilled with fun and games.

:s

ClarkFan

[Valve Bounce]

I think this place is for funning - nothing else. Serious technical topics are best addressed directly to the F1 teams. :p :

[PSfan]

I was promised fun and games when I came on here just a few short days ago - forum reputation has been lived up to then, eh..?

Glad we could live up to are reputation already... But I'm sure most forums have those who like to stir the pot a little... Hate to think we are unique in that aspect.


Garry, just so we understand each other, there are journalists... and then there are journalists... Some do not get what they want and write and/or speak tripe in revenge. They want the juicy page 3 type stuff and after failing with that, then have to make stuff up. There are others who write what they want, when they want, some stuff factual, other stuff borderline, but usually quite readable material. Then there are the 'Webslinger's' of the world, who only write and/or speak what they have personally been told, witnessed it personally (i've been called to give evidence in driver hearings before), or I've got it down on tape. Anything such journo's like me are unsure about means they will not go into print until it has been confirmed.

Thanks for the lengthy and a little unnecessary commentary on journalism. Here's a question for you, off the record... Who are your favorite drivers to interview and why, followed by which ones you dislike interviewing and why?

And while I think we've discussed Garry's friend much more then the subject deserves, It sounds like something they may have discussed over a pint of beer, and can no way be translated into the type of journalist he/she is...



Now like you (sic) I have very high placed contacts, people I respect and who have far more technical knowledge than I will ever have, simply because the subject bores me - I have no intention of committing to memory the intricacies of F1 regulations, when more clever people can do the research for me. But when I talk to two such individuals who I readily acknowledge know more than me, but give me two different points of view, I do not thrust ahead being all wise as I view my kingdom, but I step back and ask for feedback. It seems coming on the forum and asking a simple question from 'experts' was maybe asking for too much..?

I'm sorry we didn't answer your question to your satisfaction. Though I believe we pointed you in the right direction to FIND THE ANSWERS YOURSELF!!! Button blew up one race within walking distance from the checkered flag... He was classified 10th 1 lap down, and started the next race 2nd!!! I also brought up the regs that say that if you dnf for reasons beyond the teams control (which this qualifies, That car even if it could reach the end the way it was going would certainly received the black flag eventually.) the driver does not get hit with the 10 place penalty. What more where you looking for?!?


It's not a bad way to go through life doing it my way and I get a lot of respect because of it. The drivers who know me trust me, because they know that I will not stab them in the back. Equally as well, they know that I know if I shaft them for the sake of a juicy story, my relationship goes out the window faster than Hamilton leaves the grid in a McLaren, if you get my drift!

I hate to bring this up...

Really, giving Garry some fuel is always a dangerous proposition...

Do you recall your first post in this thread, here's a reminder:


Hamilton was smoking (and laying oil..?), but was he asked to stop? I did my journo bit a delved int the background seeking answers. Granted, Davidson eventually saw smoke, but the engine was pulling sweetly, right up until he parked it. He could have been experiencing a "Hamilton" for all he knew. Calling him an "idiot" was uncalled for in the circumstances.

But Davidson had this to say:


I think Taku had a similar thing, for three or laps beforehand we felt the power was down, and then I felt it again exiting on to the straight the last time. I checked in the mirror because I knew Lewis was catching me up, and then I saw blue smoke – and it all made sense from what I had felt a few laps before. I tried to make it back to the pits, but the team told me to stop.

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/36834/

Contradicts your "running sweetly" remark... great journalism by the way :p :

I'll cover the Hamilton situation (I didn't before because I felt it was below me to explain it to people I assumed paid attention to the sport... but alas, life isn't that simple!!!)

Hamilton's little puffs of smoke where intermitted, and reminiscent of the Toyota's smoking during warm up/first lap at the start of the early races this year which was explained as "just extra oil splashing out of the over flow" or something to that extent. So my theory is that Hamilton's smoking was excess oil out the overflow much like the Toyota's (remember Oil expands when hot!!!)

And what kind of journalist would see a connection between Hamilton's intermitted puffs of smoke with Davidson's constant stream?

I guess you wouldn't know what I'm talking about if I ask if you to recall the Williams incident a few years back in Monaco I believe. There was an intermitted smoking Williams, and the car behind I believe was told not to take any chances passing it because they expected it to blow, after the race it was revealed that Williams technicians where causing the smoke in attempt to fix something else, and the engine wasn't as unhealthy as the smoke made it out to be...


If Davidson was in the slightest way arrogant I would never approach him. If Hamilton was the same, I would never approach him either. But I can honestly say that in both cases, those drivers are a journo's dream. If they see me, they speak to me, make me feel important, giving me whatever information I ask for, including stuff that might at the time "be off the record".

Hmmm Ron Dennis lets you near Hamilton?!?! :cheese:



As I said earlier, fun and games, fun and games...

Always

[Webslinger]

PSfan: "Thanks for the lengthy and a little unnecessary commentary on journalism. Here's a question for you, off the record... Who are your favorite drivers to interview and why, followed by which ones you dislike interviewing and why?"

I'm short on time to give you the full response you are looking for PSfan, but quickly taking the above from the list, the one that stood out for me (Davidson and Hamilton apart) was Allan McNish. It is difficult to say why, apart from the fact that he was completely honest in all his answers, and agreed to see me on the strength of one telephone call, and without a 'minder'. Shows true character.

My one dislike was actually a superb interview with a good driver, but he had a PR who wanted to change what I wrote, because "he's a lot cleverer than you make him sound." She wanted to make him word perfect, when the truth was he did not speak like that. If someone speaks in a certain way, but the PR wants shall we say an "aristocratic" plummy sound, is that portraying the interviewee correctly? For those who knew the subject, I reckon that they would have read the interview aftewards, and wanted to know who in fact I had been speaking to?

I refused to change a word and I was subsequently 'blanked' by the PR after that. Sad, but it's par for the course.

[Garry Walker]

Respect works both ways, but you have to earn it to enjoy it. Which begs one question Garry, are your high-placed (sic) journo's trustworthy, or have they done something to Davidson that might have upset him? Did he give them a confidence that was betrayed? The only way we will know for sure is to name them. Send me a PM if you have to ("off the record" info away from the forum obviously), and I will seek the oracle for advice.

I wouldnt say my contact is "high-placed", he is a simple journalist who covers racing for one of the top racing magazines in world. Its not like im talking about Roebuck lol. I have known him for a long time and have often heard interesting "gossip" from him. His opinion on Davidson is based on contacts with Ant and his view on Ant is apparently shared by quite a few people in that same magazine.

Obviously I will not disclose who he is, because that would be betraying his trust, to a person I know nothing about. Off the record or not, I am sure you as a journalist can see why. That isnt something one would do to a friend, and I regard that person as a very good friend.

[Webslinger]

No problem Garry - understood.

[Valve Bounce]

It will be interesting to see where Davidson's Super Aguri will qualify and finish at race end at Monaco. This is a driver's circuit, where drivers in the lessor cars can really show their ability.

[raphael123]

The main emphasis is still on the car though. Generally it's teams who have poor aero dynamics which do well there, which people mistake for the drivers ability.

Generally, the best cars are still at the front, the midfield cars are still midfield, and the backmarkers are still backmarkers.

The driver has an influence, but no more than at most of the other tracks. It is a different type of skill maybe. The only difference is its harder to bring the car home.

[Valve Bounce]

The main emphasis is still on the car though. Generally it's teams who have poor aero dynamics which do well there, which people mistake for the drivers ability.

Generally, the best cars are still at the front, the midfield cars are still midfield, and the backmarkers are still backmarkers.

The driver has an influence, but no more than at most of the other tracks. It is a different type of skill maybe. The only difference is its harder to bring the car home.

Tell that to Stirling Moss. :rolleyes:

............and Ritchie Ginther.

[raphael123]

Tell that to Stirling Moss. :rolleyes:

............and Ritchie Ginther.

Formula One has changed quite a bit in the last 50yrs my friend :rolleyes:

[Valve Bounce]

Formula One has changed quite a bit in the last 50yrs my friend :rolleyes:

I know Moncao has changed, but it is still the one track that separates the men from the boys. Ya gotta have balls to go fast here.

[raphael123]

I know Moncao has changed, but it is still the one track that separates the men from the boys. Ya gotta have balls to go fast here.

I said Formula One has changed, I don't think Monaco has changed too much.

I don't think anyone said you don't need balls to go fast there :up:

[Valve Bounce]

The main emphasis is still on the car though. Generally it's teams who have poor aero dynamics which do well there, which people mistake for the drivers ability.

Generally, the best cars are still at the front, the midfield cars are still midfield, and the backmarkers are still backmarkers.

The driver has an influence, but no more than at most of the other tracks. It is a different type of skill maybe. The only difference is its harder to bring the car home.


If I remember correctly, Moss beat two Ferraris which had a lot more power, but his superb ability won him the race. Same at the Nurnburgring. But yeah!! drivers with balls as well as great driving ability tend to go better here. Now Clark also went very well here, if I remember corectly.

Personally, I think the driver has much greater influence here than at other tracks.

[raphael123]

If I remember correctly, Moss beat two Ferraris which had a lot more power, but his superb ability won him the race. Same at the Nurnburgring. But yeah!! drivers with balls as well as great driving ability tend to go better here. Now Clark also went very well here, if I remember corectly.

Personally, I think the driver has much greater influence here than at other tracks.

I think, though drivers do need to good to succeed here, people tend to assume this is even more so than case (than what it actually is) because slower cars often tend to do a bit better, because the cars don't have to be all good. A poor engine, and poor aerodynamics aren't punished as much as say e.g. Silverstone or Barcelona.

Those examples you stated were 50yrs old. If you could find something more recent that'd be nice.

I agree though, Monaco is definately one of the 'drivers' track, but you still can't win in a poor car.

[Valve Bounce]

I think, though drivers do need to good to succeed here, people tend to assume this is even more so than case (than what it actually is) because slower cars often tend to do a bit better, because the cars don't have to be all good. A poor engine, and poor aerodynamics aren't punished as much as say e.g. Silverstone or Barcelona.

Those examples you stated were 50yrs old. If you could find something more recent that'd be nice.

I agree though, Monaco is definately one of the 'drivers' track, but you still can't win in a poor car.


Well, don't expect bunsen to come in first. :p :
Maybe we'll just see whether ant can perform better than his car would normally indicate - that's the point I am trying to make.

[ClarkFan]

IThose examples you stated were 50yrs old. If you could find something more recent that'd be nice.


Actually, Monaco throws up these examples fairly regularly:
Jochen Rindt's charge in a 3-year old car in 1970, including a fastest lap that was 1 sec faster than the pole time and more than 2 sec faster than Rindt's own qualifying time.
Gilles Villeneuve in 1981 in a Ferrari that was such a dog that it howled at the moon and buried bones in the yard.
Senna in 1987, 1992 and 1993, all in cars that clearly weren't #1 in the field those years.
Schumacher in 1997 before Ferrari's design team had come around.

So maybe Monaco is one for the drivers.

ClarkFan

[raphael123]

Actually, Monaco throws up these examples fairly regularly:
Jochen Rindt's charge in a 3-year old car in 1970, including a fastest lap that was 1 sec faster than the pole time and more than 2 sec faster than Rindt's own qualifying time.
Gilles Villeneuve in 1981 in a Ferrari that was such a dog that it howled at the moon and buried bones in the yard.
Senna in 1987, 1992 and 1993, all in cars that clearly weren't #1 in the field those years.
Schumacher in 1997 before Ferrari's design team had come around.

So maybe Monaco is one for the drivers.

ClarkFan

Have you got anything more recent? Like in the last 10yrs maybe? And 97 was in the rain. Who was alongside Schumacher on the podium then? Rubens Barrichello in the sh!t stewarts and ?

I'm not denying it's a drivers circuit, though definately not as much as it use to be. But you still need a very good car to win. I think quite often an average car can suit the track very well. For example when Trulli won there. The car wasn't great that year, and I don't think you can state he is a great driver.

[ArrowsFA1]

Have you got anything more recent?
Perhaps that question highlights how increasingly important the quality of the car is, as opposed to the quality of the driver, in F1 :crazy:

Gilles had no right to be anywhere near winning the 1981 race, or even qualifying on the front row. Yes, Piquet slid off under pressure from Jones, then Jones had problems himself which allowed GV to take the lead and win, but just take a look at what Pironi did with the same Ferrari - 2.5s slower in qualifying and a lap down at the end of the race.

[raphael123]

Perhaps that question highlights how increasingly important the quality of the car is, as opposed to the quality of the driver, in F1 :crazy:


Umm....yes I know...that was my point :dozey:

[jens]

For example when Trulli won there. The car wasn't great that year, and I don't think you can state he is a great driver.

Trulli might not be great everywhere or as an all-round driver, but surely he is great at Monaco! This is the circuit, where he definetely is one of the best drivers and he has proved it at every Monaco Grand Prix so far!

[raphael123]

Trulli might not be great everywhere or as an all-round driver, but surely he is great at Monaco! This is the circuit, where he definetely is one of the best drivers and he has proved it at every Monaco Grand Prix so far!

I don't know, apart from the win, he's had a 6th and 4th in his 9 year career as an F1 driver. I wouldn't say that justifies you saying he's proved he's one of the best drivers in Monaco, and he's proved it ever year :dozey: :laugh: I haven't checked his qualifying form there (though I have memories of him getting a front row seat a couple of times), but Trulli is known as great qualifying, but failing to reproduce that speed in the races, not only in Monaco, but every racetrack on the calender.

Coulthard, not a great, but great at Monaco.

[BeansBeansBeans]

For example when Trulli won there. The car wasn't great that year, and I don't think you can state he is a great driver.

He may not be a great driver, but that was a great drive.

[jens]

I don't know, apart from the win, he's had a 6th and 4th in his 9 year career as an F1 driver. I wouldn't say that justifies you saying he's proved he's one of the best drivers in Monaco, and he's proved it ever year :dozey: :laugh: I haven't checked his qualifying form there (though I have memories of him getting a front row seat a couple of times), but Trulli is known as great qualifying, but failing to reproduce that speed in the races, not only in Monaco, but every racetrack on the calender.


2006 - could have finished on podium if the car hadn't broke down 5 laps before the end.
2005 - was driving fourth (ahead of Williamses, who later finished on podium), but got stuck behind Fisichella, which cost him dearly
2004 - win
2003 - 6th right behind Alonso (IMO the worst Monaco drive by him!)
2002 - fine 4th, was driving ahead of Räikkönen and Barrichello, before they collided (btw, he was not holding them up at that time!)
2001 - was running 5th before engine blew
2000 - would have surely finished second and maybe even won without gearbox trouble!
1999 - started 7th (one of the best qualis that year), could have scored points without slight problems.
1998 - 10th on the grid in a crap Prost (one of the highest grid positions that year for him), was holding that position, but had to retire.
1997 - don't remember much.

Even your mentioned Coulthard has not been that impressive, being way behind Räikkönen both in 2003 and 2004.
Interesting that Trulli is the only one, who has got the "one-lap-wonder" fame. IMO Webber and so far even Davidson (the guy the topic is about) have the same tendency, but no-one notices!

[raphael123]

2006 - could have finished on podium if the car hadn't broke down 5 laps before the end.
2005 - was driving fourth (ahead of Williamses, who later finished on podium), but got stuck behind Fisichella, which cost him dearly
2004 - win
2003 - 6th right behind Alonso (IMO the worst Monaco drive by him!)
2002 - fine 4th, was driving ahead of Räikkönen and Barrichello, before they collided (btw, he was not holding them up at that time!)
2001 - was running 5th before engine blew
2000 - would have surely finished second and maybe even won without gearbox trouble!
1999 - started 7th (one of the best qualis that year), could have scored points without slight problems.
1998 - 10th on the grid in a crap Prost (one of the highest grid positions that year for him), was holding that position, but had to retire.
1997 - don't remember much.


I don't remember Trulli's races in those races specifically, so can't comment too much, but I'm going to take a wild guess and say it's rather biased. For example getting stuck behind a driver isn't really an excuse. I'm sure he benefitted from another driver getting 'stuck' behind another driver during the race.

Good job in 2006,
Poor/average in 2005 (finished 10th even if he did get held up isn't that good),
2004 - excellent!
2003 - average as u admit,
2002 4th, beating Fisichella in a poor Jordon, and Heinz Harold in the Arrows, hardly amazing!
2001, might have been running 5th, but he didn't even get passed the half way mark of the race. to say he would have stayed there, especially with a driver like trulli who fades during the race is questionable.
2000 - fair play he did wonders there. but again, he only drove 50% of the race. the fact you say he may have even won the race is why im slgihtly cautious about how objective your being.
1999 - What slight problems were these? didnt he just have an average race?

See, amazing how you can make things sound if you want to. Trulli is better than most at Monaco, but nothing as much as your making out. The comment that he's proved he's a great at Monaco and proved it every year was what made me question you. Not the fact Trulli is good at Monaco.



Even your mentioned Coulthard has not been that impressive, being way behind Räikkönen both in 2003 and 2004.
Interesting that Trulli is the only one, who has got the "one-lap-wonder" fame. IMO Webber and so far even Davidson (the guy the topic is about) have the same tendency, but no-one notices!

I think Webber is known as more of a one-lap-wonder. I didn't mention him because we weren't talking about him. As for Davidson, a man entering his 5th F1 race this weekend, I think is a reason as to why he hasn't been given a label yet. Plus I don't think he is a one-lap-wonder guy to be honest. Though I haven't seen enough of him to say that for sure :)

[jens]

About 1999. I don't remember, what the exact problems were, but he was running in the points and then went off, which surely cost a place to Wurz and maybe to Fisichella. After the season I read about the race from F1 season review brochure, which at the moment isn't in reach. I can tell about the problems in two weeks' time. :) And of course - team-mate Panis was running way behind.
2000 - Why I think he could have won? He was running ahead of DC (who actually won) and both were about to make their stop soon. If Trulli had stayed ahead after the stop, then probably he would have kept that position, but of course we would never know, how the pitstops would have worked out.
2001 - Trulli was moving upwards, having started from 8th. He probably wouldn't have beaten Irvine, but would have fought against Villeneuve. And again I would mention that he was running clearly ahead of team-mate (this time Frentzen), who hadn't a chance of scoring points in that race and was forced to retirement later than Trulli.
2002 - But again - team-mate had a weaker race. Button jumped the start and had a collision later.

Btw, talking about Trulli fades - why do you expect them to happen always? They happen sometimes, but not always! Let's even look at this season. In Bahrain was behind Renaults after Lap1, but at the end was ahead. And in Malaysia kept the same position he had after Lap 1 till the end. Only in Australia he could or should have done marginally better.

And about one-lap-wonders, then I almost forgot one more guy - Sato. He also seems to have had more success in qualis.

Sorry for OT.

And finally a word about Davidson. He of course has time to also find, how to drive consistently well in the race, so he can't be written off at that aspect, but I had to mention what is the image so far. And in Bahrain it was somewhat strange that he was running ahead of Kovalainen and the Finn pitted earlier. Davidson with empty tank pitted later and dropped behind him! (usually that one wins, who pits later, so ... what's the explanation?)

[Valve Bounce]

I don't know what happened to ant in Bahrein after he had to pit. I had to leave the hotel for the airport and by the time I got there, the race was over. :(

[raphael123]

I know what happened. He ran out of stem. Plain and Simple.

[wedge]

Have you got anything more recent? Like in the last 10yrs maybe? And 97 was in the rain. Who was alongside Schumacher on the podium then? Rubens Barrichello in the sh!t stewarts and ?

I'm not denying it's a drivers circuit, though definately not as much as it use to be. But you still need a very good car to win. I think quite often an average car can suit the track very well. For example when Trulli won there. The car wasn't great that year, and I don't think you can state he is a great driver.

Webbo's performance last year. Looked on course for a podium till his Cosworth overheated and let go. He easily matched Kimi and Alonso that day.

The Cossie was very capable engine. At the start of the start of the season it easily revved close to 20,000 rpm and very torquey, but at that point of the season everyone else caught up with them.

The Williams had pretty decent chassis but crap aero. The average lap speed is under 90mph around Monaco and most of the corners are low speed, so the car doesn't generate downforce or very little, so there is more onus is on mechanical grip and traction and therefore driver skill.

Kimi got pole and won in 2005. He was 1-stopping whereas team-mate JPM was 2-stopping.

JPM winning in 2003. The Williams BMW was known for its top speed.

[raphael123]

Yes Webber had a good drive, in what was quite a competitive car. Wasn't that the same car he was heading for a podium in Oz that year a few races previous?

Kimi got pole in 2005, and JPM 2 stopping, but didn't JPM qualify from the back of the grid because of an incident with JV?

Williams had the most competitive car from Monaco that year

[wedge]

Also forgot to mention that Kimi's best chance of winning last year was at Monaco. The McLaren last year had a tendency to understeer, especially on hi-speed corners.

[Valve Bounce]

I see the ant has pulled his finger out during Sat Prac. I just wonder whether this will be translated into race performance. Let's hope so.

[Ian McC]

Quite a difference between him and Sato in the first and third free practice sessions.

[Schnell]

I see the ant has pulled his finger out during Sat Prac. I just wonder whether this will be translated into race performance. Let's hope so.

To do a perfect lap, on demand is what F1 is really all about. So far he has failed to match his best flying practice lap in Qually. If again so here, it could be to do with tyres as the Prime and the Option are close to call. He certainly put in the most laps (49) in FP2, so must have a good idea which has the best 'race pace' in them, which is more important in a slower car than grid position.

He loves the new chicane, it reminds him of the old 'Bus Stop' at SPA, says it's added a technical bit to what was just two easy high G corners that suited the faster aero cars. Says there is a chance to actually overtake there, when drivers mess it up! BUT it could lead to collisions there on the first lap! Hope not! But it'll certainly create more opportunities to overtake down the main straight, for those that get it wrong.

[Valve Bounce]

Yeah! His dad must have told him to pull his finger out. :D

[BeansBeansBeans]

I was gutted when Ant dropped it in Q2. Any news on whether it was a mechanical failure or driver error? He doesn't strike me as the type to 'over-drive' his car.

[truefan72]

I was gutted when Ant dropped it in Q2. Any news on whether it was a mechanical failure or driver error? He doesn't strike me as the type to 'over-drive' his car.

Yes it is a shame what happened to him and Sato. No matter what people say, I am very pleased with the performance of Super Aguri and most definately it's drivers. I think that at the end of the day, drivers still have to perform and if these two can hover around the top 10 then more power to them.

on a side note, too bad for Speed. I think he was going to make some waves in quali. Stupid car let him down. Anyway back to Spuer Aguri and dAvidson.

I am sure, before the season, ppeople thought this team was a joke. IMO they are turning out to be the Honda #1 team and showing some real pace. It turns out to be a good move for Davidson and Sato.

[wedge]

I was gutted when Ant dropped it in Q2. Any news on whether it was a mechanical failure or driver error? He doesn't strike me as the type to 'over-drive' his car.

He made mistakes in Q2 when Sato retired being the quickest of the Aguris.

THe battle of the team-mates is heating up nicely!

[Webslinger]

Ant was complaining about the wind (not the HP variety) in that sector earlier in the day, and it apparently just caught him out, which was a bit unfortunate.

It was a rare mistake, but then Brundle did do a "Murrayism" just a minute or so beforehand, when he commented how impressed he was with how Ant drove a Formula One car.

[Valve Bounce]

I was gutted when Ant dropped it in Q2. Any news on whether it was a mechanical failure or driver error? He doesn't strike me as the type to 'over-drive' his car.

You are not going to believe this but I just got word from an impeccable source that his misfortune was caused by wind from BeansBeansBeans. I swear to God this is true. :p :
Apparently the wind caught him out in turn 9.

[PSfan]

Ant was complaining about the wind (not the HP variety) in that sector earlier in the day, and it apparently just caught him out, which was a bit unfortunate.


Am I the only one who thinks it sounds kinda funny that Ant has had "Wind" troubles in qualifying twice out of 4 races?

[jens]

Yeah, complaining about "wind" sounds a bit childish. Like when others drove through those corners, there was no wind? And in Q2 there were 16 cars on track (maybe not all of them at the same time, but most of them), so the traffic was quite tight. Don't try to tell that after someone had gone through the corner, then the wind freshened for 10 seconds, when Ant went through and after that weakened again?!?! Btw, Davidson went off for twice and in different track sections!

He did a better race, but Sato managed to beat him fair and square this time in spite of problems in qualifying.

[aryan]

I have to say that is letting me down this year. I expected more of this chap.

I do recognise that he is a rookie racer in F1 and his teammate has 3+ years of solid experience behind him, but...

Best of luck to AD in Monaco, a circuit in which hopefully Ant will shine.

[Valve Bounce]

Yeah!! I want to know how come the guy was dead last after the first corner. :(

[raphael123]

Not a great race performance from Ant again. Seems he can only do well in Friday's practice!! Still, it's a steep learning curve, however he's got to be beating Sato come the end of the season if he wants to be regarded F1 long term quality.

[PSfan]

And the winner of the "great Canadian Beaver Hunt" is Anthony Davidson. :cheese:

[jso1985]

:laugh:

even if he was bit unlucky with all the SC periods, yet he was out paced by Sato the whole weekend, scoreboard is 4-0 now

[cos]

:laugh:

even if he was bit unlucky with all the SC periods, yet he was out paced by Sato the whole weekend, scoreboard is 4-0 now

Ant was on the same strategy as Wurz, but he hit a beaver causing that unexpected pit-stop. Could have been a double score for SA!

[N. Jones]

Did anybody else catch that? http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=General&PO_ID=39560

He said he hit a beaver. That was why he locked up the car right before the pit straight! That is also why the team was caught out when he stopped in the pit lane...

[VkmSpouge]

My condolences to the beaver's family.

[jso1985]

didn't Verstappen hit also a beaver back in 2003? :s

[Valve Bounce]

Ant was on the same strategy as Wurz, but he hit a beaver causing that unexpected pit-stop. Could have been a double score for SA!

I was not able to follow this race on live timing, but I did tape the rce and watched it first thing this morning.

So it is difficult for me to say who was on which tyres and fuel stop strategy; however, I do remember ant was running ahead of Mark Webber when he hit the beaver, and Mark's race was ruined by a combination of bad luck with the safety car and bad pit stop strategy.

All I can say is that it was bad luck he hit the beaver and bad luck for the beeaver. :(

[Valve Bounce]

"Well he finished ahead of Bunsen but did you know he was on for a podium finish, until he hit a Beaver!!!!???? Yep his one stop stratege meant he was due to stop on lap 40, but the unsen damage to the wing meant he kept locking up his front tyres, so dived into the pits 4 laps earlier than planned catching the team out! He lost time as they changed the wheels and refuelled him, but no one knew the wing was damaged until he kept running off the track, so had to pit for a new wing.
Now with the strategy ruined, they pitted under the Safety Car period to change back to the better tyres.

Team later calculated he would have finished 3rd! "

Sorry, no links are available.

[Valve Bounce]

Brought back to page 1 for the information for rlenis.

[Valve Bounce]

It wasn't a beaver, it was a groundhog. http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=31733

[raphael123]

I'm surprised at how poorly he's doing in comparison to Sato to be honest. I thought he would be matching him by now.

There's still a few races left though for him to pick up his game. If he doesn't end up matching Sato by the end of the season, I can't see the paddock rating him all that highly, no matter how good Sato has been this season.

[Valve Bounce]

Ant was ahead of Webber ? maybe only when Mark spun once and went to the rear/mid...I think a podium is highly unlikely unless the team were calculating on Wurz, Heidfeld, Kimi, Alonso etc cars breaking down.

sorry to take it off topic.


No!! Go watch the tape again if you taped it. If not, then you don't have a leg to stand on. Ant was running 5th at that stage in front of Mark Webber.
And if you think you know better than his team who kept accurate records, then you can only satisfy yourself with your analysis.

[wmcot]

It wasn't a beaver, it was a groundhog. http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=31733

At the speed he was driving, it was a furry blur!!!

[wedge]

For a certain Antipodean....

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rmhttp/downloadtrial/fivelive/thechequeredflag/thechequeredflag_20070626-1200_40_st.mp3

Recorded during the Goodwood Festival of Speed, for first 10mins there's a nice chat with Ant plus plenty of view from Ant and guests.

Worth downloading and listening whether you're an Ant fan or not.

[Valve Bounce]

I must confess that I have been privy to much inside information that I have pledged not to divulge to the forum because of either the contractual aspects (before ant signed with Super Aguri) and the operational aspects which may or may not be sensitive.

Some insights which I am able to post will be identified by SORRY, NO LINKS. However, I am dismayed that whenever I post information which may explain a less than perfect performance, some here think that it is an excuse; like the time ant said he had trouble with a wind gust during quals at Barcelona. Sure, other drivers may also have had these problems during quals and races but they sure as hell are not going to tell anyone here, are they?

I am further dismayed that schnell has decided not to post here, as he is the only link we in this forum have ever had with anyone directly involved in F1 to my knowledge.

I think some of the armchair F1 professors might like to desist from polishing their egos at the expense of those directly invloved with F1.

[Valve Bounce]

For a certain Antipodean....

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rmhttp/downloadtrial/fivelive/thechequeredflag/thechequeredflag_20070626-1200_40_st.mp3

Recorded during the Goodwood Festival of Speed, for first 10mins there's a nice chat with Ant plus plenty of view from Ant and guests.

Worth downloading and listening whether you're an Ant fan or not.

Thanks!! I particularly like the pass ant did on bunsen. :up:
There is also a very interesting comment about Ralfie, and how the Toyota staff later went up to the comment maker (don't know who) telling him he is right that Ralfie is a disgrace.

Now, to put this Super Aguri performance into perspective with their second hand Hondas vs the Factory Honda Team,
Super Aguri has 140 staff whilst Team Honda has over 700. It is also my understanding that some of the settings on the Super Aguri are set by Team Honda, which has adversely affected ant's gearing and his 1 stop strategy, which didn't come off because of a fuel rig problem.

[Firstgear]

[quote="Valve Bounce"]

I am further dismayed that schnell has decided not to post here....QUOTE]

That's really too bad. I was wondering why he hasn't given us updates recently. I really enjoyed reading his posts. Made me feel like Ant was part of the 'cyber family' we have here. I hope Schnell reconsiders.

[Valve Bounce]

I am further dismayed that schnell has decided not to post here....QUOTE]

That's really too bad. I was wondering why he hasn't given us updates recently. I really enjoyed reading his posts. Made me feel like Ant was part of the 'cyber family' we have here. I hope Schnell reconsiders.

Not much chance, I think. The fact that he has been invited to the pits in America makes him more privy to who controls the drivers' performances, and how they react. This makes it even less likely for such to be discussed here. Having read the past three pages of this thread, he's unlikely to come back for more of the rubbish posted by several armchair F1 professors.

That's my take on it.