Please Mikko, something different this time!! (an open letter)

[A.F.F.]

Mikko.

This is probably your last chance of trying to get the title from Loeb himself.

The season has started almost perfectly. It's still a long season to go and we yet do not know how is the powerlevel between Ford and Citroen. But we need you to attack. To be agressive. To WIN rallies, not gather points and hang in a thin lifeline until the end of the season. True champion crush his opponents. This is you turn!!!

Regards
Jani

[wildsir]

Its like asking Massa to beat Alonso, its not going to happen.

[N.O.T]

Mikko reads this forum ??

[A.F.F.]

Mikko reads this forum ??

You never know. :)

[Barreis]

Please Mr.Hirvonen,
Be in the ditch as much as it is possible..
Regards

[N.O.T]

Barreis that is a blow below the belt....not good for the sport.

[Barreis]

What can I do?! Just don't like him..

[Allar]

What can I do?! Just don't like him..

One thing u can do is not using the reply button ;)

[A.F.F.]

One thing u can do is not using the reply button ;)

:up:

[N.O.T]

What can I do?! Just don't like him..

i do not like 99.9% of world population but i do not wish them bad luck... it would be nicer to wish for Loeb and the others to be faster than him (which is not that difficult anymore) than to ask for his demise.

[Zico]

Mikko is just Mikko though, he is quick but he seems to be one paced, if that makes sense. He will drive at nine tenths the whole rally keeping that one tenth as a safety margin and hardly ever crash in the process, while others around him, particularly Jari-matte, who can push to the max and can beat Mikko on the day but is so prone to wiping out in the process. There is a saying that you can reign a fast driver in, which is the box I'd put Jari-matte in, yet it doesn't look like he has learned that yet.

Is it a case of Citroen now having two number one drivers while Ford have two number two's?... or... do Citroen and French manufacturers in general just have the ability to build the superior car/engine combo?

[Barreis]

Zico, good thoughts..

[Tomi]

What can I do?

If you want to be of any use, you can go and catch a few war criminals for instance.

[N.O.T]

i think most of them went to argentina and small islands...

[AndyRAC]

The current points system rewards wins, so if Mikko want to win the WRC, he's gonna have to go for it. Unlike 2009 when he racked up podium after podium and got a few wins which kept him in touch. That's unlikely to work this year.

[Barreis]

I don't like war criminals.. We can go all together to watch WRC Finland this year.. :)

[tfp]

Barreis that is a blow below the belt....not good for the sport.

Well said.

[tfp]

I don't like war criminals.. We can go all together to watch WRC Finland this year.. :)

Thats not really a fair comment either!
Some of who I think the greatest drivers of all time are finnish. Juha Kankunnen, Marcus Gronholm, Ari Vatanen....

[A.F.F.]

I don't like war criminals.. We can go all together to watch WRC Finland this year.. :)

Come on over. We'll be waiting.

[Barreis]

Gronholm was my favorite driver until 2005.. :) Still remember MC rally about 10 years ago when he was fastest driver in 206WRC while sliding all over in total control.. That's why I call him great Gronholm.. Just don't like paying drivers..

[A.F.F.]

Hirvonen ? Paying driver? Today?

[Barreis]

Not anymore for sure.. Just don't like him from subaru days when C.McRae was dismissed in favour of this guy..

[tfp]

Not anymore for sure.. Just don't like him from subaru days when C.McRae was dismissed in favour of this guy..

Talk about holding grudges, that was years ago!

[A.F.F.]

Not anymore for sure.. Just don't like him from subaru days when C.McRae was dismissed in favour of this guy..

Fair enough.... You could have told us why you don't like him in the first place.

[Barreis]

Thanks for understanding.. COLIN FOREVER.

[N.O.T]

Not anymore for sure.. Just don't like him from subaru days when C.McRae was dismissed in favour of this guy..

you are a bit confused

Mcrae left subaru 1998 hirvonen arrived at subaru 2003...hmmmmm

[Barreis]

After Burns suffered illness, Prodrive started negotiations with some other drivers for 2004.. Colin was one of them but bag full of money put Mr.Hirvonen in that seat..

[N.O.T]

oooh ok.....

[Barreis]

Still interested to watch WRC Finland with forumers.. :)

[tfp]

you are a bit confused

Mcrae left subaru 1998 hirvonen arrived at subaru 2003...hmmmmm

Good point, and well made:-)
And yes, God bless the flyng scot :champion: 1995.

[tmx]

Mikko.

This is probably your last chance of trying to get the title from Loeb himself.

The season has started almost perfectly. It's still a long season to go and we yet do not know how is the powerlevel between Ford and Citroen. But we need you to attack. To be agressive. To WIN rallies, not gather points and hang in a thin lifeline until the end of the season. True champion crush his opponents. This is you turn!!!

Regards
Jani

What are you talking about, thats exactly what Mikko did last year and look where that got him. He clearly stated he will enjoy himself more this year and he won one rally and got second place on another rally which even Subaru had better results than Ford. Don't know what more he can do. I'm definitely rooting for Mikko this year and at least a win for Petter. Anyway, I'm out of this thread because it attracts the usual trolls.

[A.F.F.]

Resultwise it's great. I still look for more killer-attitude and less cruising.

[cali]

Please Mr.Hirvonen,
Be in the ditch as much as it is possible..
Regards

You posess a true sportsmanship in you, good job !!

Did not expect nothing else from you ....

[MikeD]

Mikko.

This is probably your last chance of trying to get the title from Loeb himself.

The season has started almost perfectly. It's still a long season to go and we yet do not know how is the powerlevel between Ford and Citroen. But we need you to attack. To be agressive. To WIN rallies, not gather points and hang in a thin lifeline until the end of the season. True champion crush his opponents. This is you turn!!!

Regards
Jani

Hi AFF,

While your post is fine and honest, you really cannot expect Mikko to play the game any different than he does. He just isn't as quick as Loeb and has never been and will never be, (except on snow) so he tries to win the championship on consistency. There is nothing wrong with that and he almost made it in 2009.

Apart from that then half way into this years season it will be Latvala and Ogier that will challenge Loeb while Hirvonen will once again go backwards - he just isn't fast enough and I simply don't understand why Ford doesn't put their weight behind Latvala instead of Hirvonen.

[Karukera]

Mikko.

But we need you to attack. To be agressive. To WIN rallies, not gather points and hang in a thin lifeline until the end of the season. True champion crush his opponents. This is you turn!!!

Regards
Jani

So be it, Amen

[A.F.F.]

Hi AFF,

While your post is fine and honest, you really cannot expect Mikko to play the game any different than he does. He just isn't as quick as Loeb and has never been and will never be, (except on snow) so he tries to win the championship on consistency. There is nothing wrong with that and he almost made it in 2009.

Apart from that then half way into this years season it will be Latvala and Ogier that will challenge Loeb while Hirvonen will once again go backwards - he just isn't fast enough and I simply don't understand why Ford doesn't put their weight behind Latvala instead of Hirvonen.



Yes, the problem is that basicly Loeb is doing the same thing than Hirvonen. The difference is that Loeb's 90% is 100% to others :mark: That adding to consistency Loeb has, Mikko just can't win him with the strategy of collecting points, he needs to push some pressure on him. Now Mikko got help from surprising angle, Loeb's team-mate. That ain't going to last many rallyes.

Anyway, I know you're right but I can always wish, right? :D

[Wim_Impreza]

Hirvonen is the most overrating driver ever in my opinion. He even wasn't a national overall champion in his home country.

[Rallyper]

Most of you talking b***t. Mikko is a fantastic driver when he wants driving absolutely crazy. Maybe that´s more on gravel and for sure on snow. I´ve seen him i Rally sweden pushing so much that even Mr Loeb had to give up.
When Loeb drives 98 % I would say the others are doing 100%. So when the others (Mikko, JML etz) driving 103%, which I think you AFF want them to do, then Mr Loeb has to drive 100-101%. And that I think is enough for even Mr Loeb to be pressured. Remember he´has done some incidents himself.

So AFF I think your open letter is in some way good, but also you kind of slamming open doors. Mikko will do what you´ve written. That is for sure a clear ame and what the Ford team strategy is.

[Karukera]

Hirvonen isn't overrated, he certainly has the adequate raw speed for a World championship level and winning a power stage in the prospect of getting a 2nd position in Mexico shows he has some guts.

Problem is that lazyness affecting him most of the time, plus he relies too much on consistency to climb in the classification.

I agree, AFF's letter and words are justified.

[Hartusvuori]

He even wasn't a national overall champion in his home country.

That is hardly a measure. If more drivers from Finland would get a chance to drive internatiol event earlier in their careers, they would become better, especially if they would get to drive tarmac events. Driving FRC year after year doesn't make you a World Champion. But I know by saying this, it's like adding fuel to the fire for some forum members. And by the way, Mikko Hirvonen does have a small group A title from 2002, if that matters.

[Barreis]

:D

[OldF]

Thanks for the thread A.F.F. I think Barreis will stay on this thread for the rest of the season and not interfering with the discussions on other threads. ;)

[DonJippo]

Hirvonen is the most overrating driver ever in my opinion. He even wasn't a national overall champion in his home country.

Neither has been Juha Kankkunen, Ari Vatanen or Timo Salonen...

[jcatanho]

Problem is that lazyness affecting him most of the time, plus he relies too much on consistency to climb in the classification.

I believe it has nothing to do with lazyness it seems to have more to do with the lack of self-confidence. In some rallyes Hirvonen can be as fast as anyone else but, I don't know why, a lot of times the speed is not there, although you can see that he is trying! The true is that if you are always competing against Loeb it is dificult to keep you self-confidence at the highest levels. And to be a champion you have to believe in yourself.

[darkstar]

...although you can see that he is trying! yes thats true! he always looks very fast on videos. i guess he maybe overpaces the car, at last with the focus he did. i hope he can kick loeb´s a*s this year, altough i dont really believe it ;)

[OldF]

At least Malcom has promise more power to the Fiesta.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89800

"We have got more coming on the engine side," he said. "We're working on the efficiency of the engine, mainly in the area of the direct injection. There will be refinements, but these will come in time for the homologation in May.”

If there’s no results after that its time to be worried.

[Rallyper]

At least Malcom has promise more power to the Fiesta.

"We have got more coming on the engine side," he said. "We're working on the efficiency of the engine, mainly in the area of the direct injection. There will be refinements, but these will come in time for the homologation in May.”

If there’s no results after that its time to be worried.




You should be worried any way, because what says the other Fiesta-men get the updates? Then were back on square one meaning there will be two categores of cars: the factory ones and the others...

[OldF]

You should be worried any way, because what says the other Fiesta-men get the updates? Then were back on square one meaning there will be two categores of cars: the factory ones and the others...

Yes, but those updates have to be homologated which means every Fiesta has to have those updates.

[A.F.F.]

Thanks for the thread A.F.F. I think Barreis will stay on this thread for the rest of the season and not interfering with the discussions on other threads. ;)

You read me like an open book ;)

You're welcome.

[tfp]

I believe it has nothing to do with lazyness it seems to have more to do with the lack of self-confidence. In some rallyes Hirvonen can be as fast as anyone else but, I don't know why, a lot of times the speed is not there, although you can see that he is trying! The true is that if you are always competing against Loeb it is dificult to keep you self-confidence at the highest levels. And to be a champion you have to believe in yourself.

I believe this is true, Mikko can be his own worst enemy at times.
But throughout his entire career, he's done nothing but improve his championship position, up to the point when he almost ended Loebs reign in 2009. 2010 was just a minor glitch in his career, best forgotten about :)

[OldF]

That’s one point to consider .Do he wants to be fast or do he want to be a champion. I think these two approaches needs different strategy.

[tfp]

That’s one point to consider .Do he wants to be fast or do he want to be a champion. I think these two approaches needs different strategy.

Fingers crossed he will be both by the seasons end:-)

[Rallyper]

Yes, but those updates have to be homologated which means every Fiesta has to have those updates.

I dont think they are obligaged to use those updates just because they are homolagated. The old parts are still available so nothing says they have to be for everyone driving Fiestas. It will be like old times when manus having better parts than privateers.

[OldF]

I dont think they are obligaged to use those updates just because they are homolagated. The old parts are still available so nothing says they have to be for everyone driving Fiestas. It will be like old times when manus having better parts than privateers.

That’s why!

26. BEFORE THE START
26.1.4 The crew must show the car's complete certified homologation form.

64. MECHANICAL COMPONENTS – MANUFACTURERS AND WRC TEAMS

64.4 RESTRICTION OF ENGINE PARTS DEVELOPMENT
As development of the engine is controlled, a box of the parts listed below will be sealed by the FIA
together with the registered Manufacturer or WRC Team and placed in a location acceptable to both
parties. This will be carried out at the latest before the 1/05/2011.
- Valves.
- Pistons.
- Valve springs.
- Camshafts (with profile).
- Cylinder head ready to race.
- Homologated cylinder block
- High pressure fuel pump
- Exhaust and intake manifolds
- All other engine parts already homologated.
- Compression ratio details with tolerance.
The parts registered do not necessarily have to be new, but they must be representative, in every respect,
of the parts to be used in the rallies throughout the season.

[52Paddy]

I was talking to a friend about this yesterday. In my view, Hirvonen will not win the championship as long as long as Loeb is there. Latvala and Ogier and proving themselves very quick drivers that, if only for some more consistency, would be better challengers for the top step of the podium. Hirvonen definitely has experience and consistency over these two guys but that's not enough to beat Loeb. Loeb is consistent too. As well as this, if Hirvonen does not step up to the challenge this year, 2011 brings with it a more experienced Ogier, Latvala and Ostberg. Hell, don't count out Petter either, under the right circumstances! In this scenario, even with Loeb out, Hirvonen will still face tough competition.

I regret to say this but I honestly don't believe Hirvonen will ever be champion. His best shot at it is if Ford come up with something special when the new parts arrive. They need to display an advantage over Citroen in some major aspect e.g. engine power, grip etc. Hirvonen alone, will not beat Loeb. And pretty soon, he might not even beat Ogier.

I do wish him all the best in his campaign this year and hope he can gain some more confidence and take the fight to the wire. That is wishful thinking though.

[pettersolberg29]

While the Citroen is probably the better car, I don't think this is even important in the scheme of things as I think Citroen have the 3 quickest drivers in the Championship. Loeb, Ogier and Solberg are all capable of winning every event on every surface. No-one else can say that and I think even if Mikko and JML had equal machinery they would not be quicker. Maybe better over a season as Solberg and Ogier enjoy a few retirements but definately not quicker drivers.

[Barreis]

+1

[DIMI44]

Therefore lets hope that the organisers of ROC in the end of the year will give to Hirvonen and JML two DS3 and to Loeb and Ogier two Fiestas in order to see which combination is faster.

[N.O.T]

and i am sure the the sss of the show will tell the difference....

[StevieWonder]

let´s wait until Rally GB oder maybe a little bit earlier, when Mikko is becoming reigning champion of 2011 ;-)

he will do it !

[Crocone]

I see that everyone is talking about Hirvonen's speed. But nobody is talking about the difference between Ford and Citroen. It's obviously that Citroen is better than Ford, even the new specification of World Rally Car. In Mexico you could seen that. In the first day Hirvonen was a lot slower than Loeb and Ogier because the start order drawback him. And on the second and the third day he wasn't pushing hard because he seen that all the other Fords had problems.

[GINE]

We should wait for three more days to see which car is faster. You say that citroen is faster, but you forget the time of Miko in mexicos power stage!! 2 seconds faster than the citroen.. It is too early to judge the speed of the cars

[N.O.T]

in power stages the leaders risk a lot less than those behind....its a normal reaction.

[tfp]

let´s wait until Rally GB oder maybe a little bit earlier, when Mikko is becoming reigning champion of 2011 ;-)

he will do it !

I like it:-) It could be possible, but only if he improves his pace on tarmac...

[Barreis]

:D

[miksu]

Yesterday Hirvonen was a guest at a finnish tv show "Teknari". When asked about what went wrong last year and what will he improve this year, he answered something like "Last year i wanted to win every stage and every corner, this year i will just try to be consistent, because that seems to be my thing" (not excact words of his). So pretty much what many people here have said too.

[Barreis]

What about tarmac performance?!

[N.O.T]

i am really sad for the evolution of hirvonen...i was a huge fan since his finnish clio days....was amazed by his performance in rally GB with the yellow subaru and predicted he is going to be World champion one day. When he joined the official subaru team lost faith in him....and never believed he could do anything substancial even when he showed good progress with ford...then on top of that Loeb came and in GB 2009 ate what was left of his soul.... very sad story...

i will cry for him a bit...maybe.

[tfp]

i am really sad for the evolution of hirvonen...i was a huge fan since his finnish clio days....was amazed by his performance in rally GB with the yellow subaru and predicted he is going to be World champion one day. When he joined the official subaru team lost faith in him....and never believed he could do anything substancial even when he showed good progress with ford...then on top of that Loeb came and in GB 2009 ate what was left of his soul.... very sad story...

i will cry for him a bit...maybe.

Why lose faith when he joined Subaru?
No matter how much you dislike Ford/M Sport/Hirvonen, you cant deny that 2009 was one of the most exciting seasons in recent years, last year the drivers championship was over with 2 events spare:-)

[urabus-denoS2000]

Why lose faith when he joined Subaru?
No matter how much you dislike Ford/M Sport/Hirvonen, you cant deny that 2009 was one of the most exciting seasons in recent years, last year the drivers championship was over with 2 events spare:-)

Yes , it is so exticing to watch 4 works cars , so interesting . I don't care if the fight was up to the last round , the year was sadly a disaster

[Barreis]

+1

[Roy]

What about tarmac performance?!

First tarmac stage in Europe is won by Hirvonen ;)

[tfp]

Yes , it is so exticing to watch 4 works cars , so interesting . I don't care if the fight was up to the last round , the year was sadly a disaster

Well if there were more manufacturers there would be more works cars :D

[Barreis]

First tarmac stage in Europe is won by Hirvonen ;)

:D

[urabus-denoS2000]

Well if there were more manufacturers there would be more works cars :D

Of course ;) Things are ( finally ) getting better

[Tom206wrc]

Maybe "something different" in 2012 for Mikko as he's quoted as replacement of Ogier at Citroën :p :

Rumour only for now though :rolleyes:

[Arwel Davies]

I think it's all or nothing for Mikko in Wales. I like him and rate him as a driver and he has another golden chance to win the title. I think that it's his last chance at winning a world tittle as we've seen this year how quick Jarri Matti has been and of course Seb Ogier. I'll be cheering him on in Wales and hopes he can do it after the dissapointment of 2009. Go on Mikko. :D

[N.O.T]

Mikkos performance is sad...seeing people actually supporting him its even more sad...

you want the slowest driver of this year to win a title...a driver who in the last 3 event forced his FASTER team mate to slow down for him...

Sad little men with sad little lifes seeing the nothingness of them in Mikko...

makes me sick and losing all hope for the human race...

[tfp]

Mikkos performance is sad...seeing people actually supporting him its even more sad...

you want the slowest driver of this year to win a title...a driver who in the last 3 event forced his FASTER team mate to slow down for him...

Sad little men with sad little lifes seeing the nothingness of them in Mikko...

makes me sick and losing all hope for the human race...

:rotflmao:

[J.Lindstroem]

Mikkos performance is sad...seeing people actually supporting him its even more sad...

you want the slowest driver of this year to win a title...a driver who in the last 3 event forced his FASTER team mate to slow down for him...

Sad little men with sad little lifes seeing the nothingness of them in Mikko...

makes me sick and losing all hope for the human race...

Man i think you need to take a break from rallying. you start to take it a little bit too serious.

[BDunnell]

Mikkos performance is sad...seeing people actually supporting him its even more sad...

you want the slowest driver of this year to win a title...a driver who in the last 3 event forced his FASTER team mate to slow down for him...

Sad little men with sad little lifes seeing the nothingness of them in Mikko...

makes me sick and losing all hope for the human race...

What a sad, strange and slightly disturbing post. Anyone would think he'd killed your favourite pet or something.

[tfp]

What a sad, strange and slightly disturbing post. Anyone would think he'd killed your favourite pet or something.

:D Its funny though :)

Mikko knows its do or die now. Crashing or retireing - it doesnt matter now, it matters about as much as finishing second does. Hopefuly we will see another finland style performance, albeit without the crash.

[AndyRAC]

Well Mikko somehow has got another shot at the Title, I'm sure he'll go for it. I'd support him if he'd won 4-5 events and challenged consistently - but he hasn't. Therefore, I hope Seb wins it....

[Barreis]

Go Loeb.

[N.O.T]

Well Mikko somehow has got another shot at the Title, I'm sure he'll go for it. I'd support him if he'd won 4-5 events and challenged consistently - but he hasn't. Therefore, I hope Seb wins it....

i would not have any problem with him even if he didn't win a single event but was at least fighting for it... the fact that he was the slowest of them all plus the fact that he forced a CLEARLY FASTER driver to give his place to him FOR 3 EVENTS IN A ROW it is a total disgrace for the sport...

My feelings for the ford team and especially for their ugliest driver ever are very similar to the following

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7zbWNznbs

[Arwel Davies]

Mikkos performance is sad...seeing people actually supporting him its even more sad...

you want the slowest driver of this year to win a title...a driver who in the last 3 event forced his FASTER team mate to slow down for him...

Sad little men with sad little lifes seeing the nothingness of them in Mikko...

makes me sick and losing all hope for the human race...

Slowest driver of the year?? not exactly true is it.

Mikko did not " force " Jarri Matti to slow down for him. Team orders are part of WRC these days, ok I dont fully agree with them but if they can be used by the team principal to aid one of his drivers in the championship then so be it.

As for fans of Mikko being " sad little men " then that's your opinion. ;)

[N.O.T]

Slowest driver of the year?? not exactly true is it.

Mikko did not " force " Jarri Matti to slow down for him. Team orders are part of WRC these days, ok I dont fully agree with them but if they can be used by the team principal to aid one of his drivers in the championship then so be it.

As for fans of Mikko being " sad little men " then that's your opinion. ;)

slowest of all the official ones yes he was....MINI included

As for team orders. MIKKO forced them !!!!! the points the manufacturer would get would be exactly the same !!!! So Mikko was totally fine of getting those points !!!!

[6789]

Be interesting to see the pace of Tanak. He could be up there pushing in the top 5. It would be fair to say Mikko is about 5th by recent pace. Should be a close fight up the top (Loeb and Latvala?) and I can't wait!!

[N.O.T]

Be interesting to see the pace of Tanak. He could be up there pushing in the top 5. It would be fair to say Mikko is about 5th by recent pace. Should be a close fight up the top (Loeb and Latvala?) and I can't wait!!

I do not think Loeb will fight for the top...he will fight to be ahead of Hirvonen.

[tfp]

I see who started this thread, what has happened to AFF nowadays??

One thing I am glad of. The new champion will be decided at the last event, unlike last year. I even followed F1 closer than WRC last year, because it was such a close battle. This year, the tables are turned :D

[AndyRAC]

I see who started this thread, what has happened to AFF nowadays??

One thing I am glad of. The new champion will be decided at the last event, unlike last year. I even followed F1 closer than WRC last year, because it was such a close battle. This year, the tables are turned :D

I'm sure there is a F1 Grand Prix the same weekend as RallyGB.........so all the attention will be on that.

[Plan9]

I would be intersted to know if in 2001 people were saying about Richard what is now being said about Mikko. To my mind Richard was in a much weaker position than Mikko is now because he had only won NZ (he didn't win anything else that year) and Mikko has won two events. People still seem to admire Richard (at least, I still do) and I think in time people will look on Mikko the same way. If Mikko wins the title this year it will be just as valid as Richards as they both prioritized consistent result over speed.

[olschl]

Mikkos performance is sad...seeing people actually supporting him its even more sad...

you want the slowest driver of this year to win a title...a driver who in the last 3 event forced his FASTER team mate to slow down for him...

Sad little men with sad little lifes seeing the nothingness of them in Mikko...

makes me sick and losing all hope for the human race...


I just don't know what to make of these kinds of posts! On one hand they are so hypocritical as to be comical but on the other they are so negative they suck the very spirit out of this forum. Being fairly new to the WRC, I was craving as much information and history on the series I could get my eyeballs on and soon found this forum to have the most technical and well-informed members of any rally forum I visited. Unfortunately it didn't take long to discover it was also cursed with a cancer, someone so negative and condescending as to prevent the average enthusiast from becoming more involved. Unfortunate as the WRC could use all the new fans it can get and I assure you, from a newcomers point of view, you aren't doing it any favors. Take a couple of hours one night and browse through a random sampling of your 14,500+ posts and let me know how many you feel were enlightening, relevant, accurate or relayed in an adult fashion. Maybe it's a "European thing" that as an American I just don't understand but as a Mikko supporter, I assure you that you are the one that comes off sad.

[Sladden]

I would be intersted to know if in 2001 people were saying about Richard what is now being said about Mikko. To my mind Richard was in a much weaker position than Mikko is now because he had only won NZ (he didn't win anything else that year) and Mikko has won two events. People still seem to admire Richard (at least, I still do) and I think in time people will look on Mikko the same way. If Mikko wins the title this year it will be just as valid as Richards as they both prioritized consistent result over speed.
There was some criticism of Burns then yes..that it was more that Colin lost his title than Richard winning it.
On the other hand...Burns was up there challenging and being fast on many occations and won many stages. Mikko has been saved by others misfortune...of the factory drivers he has been the weakest in terms of speed and challenging for wins concistently.

I have nothing against Mikko...but his performance is not best in world of rallying this season.

[Bobcat]

I just don't know what to make of these kinds of posts! On one hand they are so hypocritical as to be comical but on the other they are so negative they suck the very spirit out of this forum. Being fairly new to the WRC, I was craving as much information and history on the series I could get my eyeballs on and soon found this forum to have the most technical and well-informed members of any rally forum I visited. Unfortunately it didn't take long to discover it was also cursed with a cancer, someone so negative and condescending as to prevent the average enthusiast from becoming more involved. Unfortunate as the WRC could use all the new fans it can get and I assure you, from a newcomers point of view, you aren't doing it any favors. Take a couple of hours one night and browse through a random sampling of your 14,500+ posts and let me know how many you feel were enlightening, relevant, accurate or relayed in an adult fashion. Maybe it's a "European thing" that as an American I just don't understand but as a Mikko supporter, I assure you that you are the one that comes off sad.

:up: :up: :up:

[Viking]

I would be intersted to know if in 2001 people were saying about Richard what is now being said about Mikko. To my mind Richard was in a much weaker position than Mikko is now because he had only won NZ (he didn't win anything else that year) and Mikko has won two events. People still seem to admire Richard (at least, I still do) and I think in time people will look on Mikko the same way. If Mikko wins the title this year it will be just as valid as Richards as they both prioritized consistent result over speed.

And Petter took time penalty in Corsica to let Burns score that extra point in drivers championship.

[AndyRAC]

And Petter took time penalty in Corsica to let Burns score that extra point in drivers championship.

Which does happen - however 4 events in a row is taking the michael.....

[Rallyper]

I dont understand why you guys just put N.O.T. on your ignore list. Then just nobody has to look at his crap bull s**t talking on this forum. Do like I did weeks ago - put NOT on your ignore list!!

[tfp]

I dont understand why you guys just put N.O.T. on your ignore list. Then just nobody has to look at his crap bull s**t talking on this forum. Do like I did weeks ago - put NOT on your ignore list!!

I would do just that, but...I find some of the posts very funny :D

[bubbaontour]

I dont understand why you guys just put N.O.T. on your ignore list. Then just nobody has to look at his crap bull s**t talking on this forum. Do like I did weeks ago - put NOT on your ignore list!!

How do you do that please???

[jens]

I don't think the 2001 Burns comparison is completely fair. Burns had also a lot of unluck that year, remember his early-season catastrophe, when he pretty much seemed to fall out of any contention for the championship. On five occasions he failed to score. And even though he won once, he finished in Top2 pretty much on merit on quite a few occasions. Perhaps Burns 2003 would be a better comparison to Hirvonen. Until the last two rounds had had just one retirement and consistent point-scoring helped him to stay on top of the championship table, although he never won a rally that year.

[Rallyper]

Click on your name. Click on Private messages at the top of page. Then go to "edit messages" to the left. There you are: Edit Ignore list.

[janvanvurpa]

I dont understand why you guys just put N.O.T. on your ignore list. Then just nobody has to look at his crap bull s**t talking on this forum. Do like I did weeks ago - put NOT on your ignore list!!

You're right! Its so much more pleasurable now that he's gone.
Except when people happen to mistakenly quote him and his maoning and insulting and whining is there once again.

I don't understand why he doesn't just drink some chemicals and end this life of psychological torture he tortures himself with..
Obviously he has an uncontrollable compulsion to watch WRC and then WE collectively have to listen to 99.9% of every word being complains and insults.

FOLKS! Don't use "quotes" with NOT-head, dozens now are befriad (va fan är befiad på angleskij?) Oh ! dozens of happy forumers are liberated from the dirge from Greece, think of the others and don+t quote. NOT like they+re ever anytghing useful that needs quoting.

[wwbroe]

I must say i like some discussion on the forum, that is why i also like NOT posting his opinion over here. :D

[BDunnell]

I don't think the 2001 Burns comparison is completely fair. Burns had also a lot of unluck that year, remember his early-season catastrophe, when he pretty much seemed to fall out of any contention for the championship. On five occasions he failed to score. And even though he won once, he finished in Top2 pretty much on merit on quite a few occasions. Perhaps Burns 2003 would be a better comparison to Hirvonen. Until the last two rounds had had just one retirement and consistent point-scoring helped him to stay on top of the championship table, although he never won a rally that year.

The example that sticks in my mind is Mark Lovell's victory in the 1986 British Open championship, driving the Ford RS200. As I recall he was not in contention for victory at any round, but he scored in all of them and, with the Metro 6R4s proving so unreliable, Mikael Sundstrom not putting in a consistent challenge in the 205 T16 and Hannu Mikkola's challenge ending mid-season when Audi pulled out, this proved enough. I would never describe him as an undeserving champion, though, because he fulfilled the criteria that really matters — getting more points than anyone else.

[Camelopard]

I dont understand why you guys just put N.O.T. on your ignore list. Then just nobody has to look at his crap bull s**t talking on this forum. Do like I did weeks ago - put NOT on your ignore list!!


Agreed!

[janvanvurpa]

I must say i like some discussion on the forum, that is why i also like NOT posting his opinion over here. :D

But when 99% of everything he writes is ______________________ is a sick dog and the remaining part is simply idiotic like "Hirvonen is the slowest man in the WRC" that's NOT an opinion, it's just noise, and negative noise at that...

Opinions related to reality, or even simply humorous related to the sport are what we are all here for NOT "sick dog" "village drivers" and endless contempt... is NOT what I want to read day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day day after day, year after year.

So select "ignore" and 96% of the droning and whining is gone, and people who are fans and enthusiasts can discuss like somewhat sober adults.
Except for those Finns, they're drunk all the time, it's the law in Finland so it's OK.

[Plan9]

I don't think the 2001 Burns comparison is completely fair. Burns had also a lot of unluck that year, remember his early-season catastrophe, when he pretty much seemed to fall out of any contention for the championship. On five occasions he failed to score. And even though he won once, he finished in Top2 pretty much on merit on quite a few occasions. Perhaps Burns 2003 would be a better comparison to Hirvonen. Until the last two rounds had had just one retirement and consistent point-scoring helped him to stay on top of the championship table, although he never won a rally that year.

I appreciate what you are saying. I recall that Richard was always setting competitive times as well; however Mikko has won the odd power stage this year and I don't think that should be overlooked. I do think though that you can read into statistics in many different ways. I think that Mikko may have sacrificed some speed to get his final results. I respect that approach because I perceive rally to be a sport of attrition and going flat out all the time to win approach is best suited to F1. I cannot remember how good Richard's 2001 Subaru was but we do know that Ford in not the fastest car and Mikko has to adjust to that. Mikko has the best chance to win a title in Wales and it will be a valid title (if he gets it) because it is a demonstrates a lot of patience.

[amilk]

You can put NOT to ingnore list but it doens't change anything related to Mikko. I would like to see since years that someone beat Loeb (just because it's good for the sport) but Mikko's fighting attitude and performance not like a champion. Loeb deserve the crone this year (again) and hopefully we will see next year a better Ford team with Ogier and Latvala

[Wim_Impreza]

I would be intersted to know if in 2001 people were saying about Richard what is now being said about Mikko. To my mind Richard was in a much weaker position than Mikko is now because he had only won NZ (he didn't win anything else that year) and Mikko has won two events. People still seem to admire Richard (at least, I still do) and I think in time people will look on Mikko the same way. If Mikko wins the title this year it will be just as valid as Richards as they both prioritized consistent result over speed.

At that time, there were 20 factory cars in the rallies and another 10-15 good (semi) privateer drivers. Matthew Wilson must be very lucky that he was too young to drive in that period, because he should never end in the points. 2001 was a fantastic year with very big names and in the tarmac rounds there were also the tarmac experts like Gilles Panizzi, Jesus Puras and Philippe Bugalski.

Burns won much more SS than Hirvonen. It is another world, 2001 with always fantastic entry lists, much candidate winners before the start and now there are only 2 factory teams that are doing the full WRC and you have that stupid SupeRally system and this year also that Power Stage thing. Not so long ago, the last SS was about 20 and sometimes even 30 km, now the last SS isn't so long as a rallysprint stage.

Hirvonen is very lucky that he finished all events this year. He has made in almost every rally a big mistake, but he has much more luck than let's say when Latvala makes a mistake.

[Barreis]

Go Loeb.

[jiipee64]

>>Except for those Finns, they're drunk all the time, it's the law in Finland so it's OK.

Highly offensive :mad:

I'm telling mom!!! :D

[Tomi]

>>I'm telling mom!!! :D

That's what i would say is an croatian way to go, either mom or the moderator, depends who is closer by :)

[Barreis]

Hahahah.

[BDunnell]

Hirvonen is very lucky that he finished all events this year. He has made in almost every rally a big mistake, but he has much more luck than let's say when Latvala makes a mistake.

And from that sort of luck can championships be made.

[Rallyper]

Janvurpa// befriad in english is like "set free".

I think those of you who are disappointed to Mikko is so because he´s the one to put the blame on.
When no one of the opponent factory team drivers can challenge Loeb then Mikko is to be blamed. Me too think he´s not performing at 100% level this year or year before, but still he is one of lets say 3-4 other drivers that had failed in giving Loeb a competition. Drivers who was expected to match Mr Loeb but didnt.
But Mikko is the scapegoat as the only one failed.

I think with the right motivation, and that´s what he has in GB of course, he will give Mr Loeb a competition we´ll never forget.

Let the best man in GB win the WRDC!!

[janvanvurpa]

>>Except for those Finns, they're drunk all the time, it's the law in Finland so it's OK.

Highly offensive :mad:

I'm telling mom!!! :D

It's the only fair-play way to do things. I mean what the hell kind of country and sporting results would you have in Finland if you weren't all always drunk all the time?? Why you guys would conquer the world kinda like that film "Star-Wreck" I saw.
So don't go whining to Mom, have another slurk of Korsu and everything will be alright..

[tfp]

Janvurpa// befriad in english is like "set free".

I think those of you who are disappointed to Mikko is so because he´s the one to put the blame on.
When no one of the opponent factory team drivers can challenge Loeb then Mikko is to be blamed. Me too think he´s not performing at 100% level this year or year before, but still he is one of lets say 3-4 other drivers that had failed in giving Loeb a competition. Drivers who was expected to match Mr Loeb but didnt.
But Mikko is the scapegoat as the only one failed.

I think with the right motivation, and that´s what he has in GB of course, he will give Mr Loeb a competition we´ll never forget.

Let the best man in GB win the WRDC!!

:up: :up: :up: +1

[tfp]

It's the only fair-play way to do things. I mean what the hell kind of country and sporting results would you have in Finland if you weren't all always drunk all the time?? Why you guys would conquer the world kinda like that film "Star-Wreck" I saw.
So don't go whining to Mom, have another slurk of Korsu and everything will be alright..

Richard Burns and Petter Solberg taking the mick - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4hkR4YAUCE)

Quality :D

[focus206]

Richard Burns and Petter Solberg taking the mick - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4hkR4YAUCE)

Quality :D

Haha good one :D

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

It's the only fair-play way to do things. I mean what the hell kind of country and sporting results would you have in Finland if you weren't all always drunk all the time?? Why you guys would conquer the world kinda like that film "Star-Wreck" I saw.
So don't go whining to Mom, have another slurk of Korsu and everything will be alright..

We was in KORSU 1939-1944 when we kick russian´s ass but now we are drinking KOSSU!

[tfp]

Haha good one :D

Burns'y and Petter to thank for that one! ;)

[Guillaumemex]

I like NOT. Yes He likes provocation. But he's not politicaly correct in a stupid way like many people here. Say "everybody is bad" is not worst that "everybody is good". I think it's less stupid...

[BDunnell]

I like NOT. Yes He likes provocation. But he's not politicaly correct in a stupid way like many people here.

So balanced, fair and non-exaggerated equals 'politically correct' now, does it?

[olschl]

Every driver has their strengths and Mikko’s has never been, nor ever will be, outright pace which is not to say he is not a “championship” level driver. I do know he is a consistent and cerebral driver and is being rewarded for that this year with his current standing at the top of the Championship just eight points off of Loeb. It amazes me how supposed “supporters” of Mikkos are the ones who spit the most venom at him in forum posts, blog posts and magazine articles, seeming to demand that Mikko produce a World Championship for them as if their own self-worth relied on it. If Mikko wins the title this year, it will be because he played the long game to perfection, putting himself in position to take points from Jarri-Matti as needed. If he doesn’t, it will be due to the fact that he does not have the ability to win a Championship on pace alone, a surprise to no one. I’ll always respect Mikko because he has faced the daunting task of challenging the greatest rally driver of all time, year after year, with a positive attitude all the while knowing he has little chance of taking the title without fate stepping in. That being said, take Loeb out of the picture completely, with everything else remaining equal, and Mikko would more than likely have two championships under his belt so it doesn't seem logical to me to hold Loeb’s dominance against Mikko as I can’t think of another driver through history that would have posed a significantly greater challenge to Loeb. Rally driving at this level is difficult, probably the single most difficult form of autosports on the planet, and there are just not that many people who can get to the level needed to knock Loeb off the top in convincing fashion. Mikko will always be my favorite as his run through SS1 in Ireland 2009 was the very first WRC stage I ever watched and I was absolutely amazed. Mikko has every reason to be proud of his achievements in the WRC and will always have my support.

[blownb310]

Very well said!!!!

Thank you.

[janvanvurpa]

We was in KORSU 1939-1944 when we kick russian´s ass but now we are drinking KOSSU!

viiiittun! spelling! OK have some kossu in your korsu and everybody be happy. In the meantime I'll have a hot cup of tjau and smoke some mahorka and get some rest.
Kiitos poiki

[Plan9]

At that time, there were 20 factory cars in the rallies and another 10-15 good (semi) privateer drivers. Matthew Wilson must be very lucky that he was too young to drive in that period, because he should never end in the points. 2001 was a fantastic year with very big names and in the tarmac rounds there were also the tarmac experts like Gilles Panizzi, Jesus Puras and Philippe Bugalski.

Burns won much more SS than Hirvonen. It is another world, 2001 with always fantastic entry lists, much candidate winners before the start and now there are only 2 factory teams that are doing the full WRC and you have that stupid SupeRally system and this year also that Power Stage thing. Not so long ago, the last SS was about 20 and sometimes even 30 km, now the last SS isn't so long as a rallysprint stage.

Hirvonen is very lucky that he finished all events this year. He has made in almost every rally a big mistake, but he has much more luck than let's say when Latvala makes a mistake.

There are good customer drivers today although I think the issues of He-Who-Cannot-Be-Named would disappear if the points system was not as generous as it is. Mikko has been clever in this regard as he has taken it steady and exploited other drivers misfortune in a manner that has been second only to Loeb! Team orders is nothing to be ashamed of because as there have been only 2 manufacturers in recent years it has become important for the factory cars to finish as well as possible.

The length and style of the rallies these days is beyond Mikko's control. I think the golden era of the 2000's is long gone. We could have long stages and endurance style rallies like Kenya as they worldwide economy was is amazing shape. Unfortunately that bubble has burst. Blame anyone you like, maybe not Mikko this time? Its not his fault the other drivers are winging about "danger" in stages and "dust problems". I doubt we will ever see epic stages like Sanremo at night as a result.

In all honesty I think that having too many sprint style events is really not good for the WRC as it waters down the level of skill needed. SuperRally has also contributed to it.

The power stages are only there to keep up viewer interest. If WRC had the ratings of F1 they may not be there at all.

[Tomi]

viiiittun! spelling! OK have some kossu in your korsu and everybody be happy. In the meantime I'll have a hot cup of tjau and smoke some mahorka and get some rest.
Kiitos poiki

Sounds like that you have been hanging out too much with those motocross guys :)

[AndyRAC]

Don’t forget that in 2001 there were 7/8 different winners of events, with 5 Manufacturers winning. This year we’ve had 3; Loeb -6, Ogier -4, Hirvonen -2…

[A.F.F.]

This time I actually agree with N.O.T. I felt the same when Richard Burns won his title.

[Wim_Impreza]

Blame anyone you like, maybe not Mikko this time? Its not his fault the other drivers are winging about "danger" in stages and "dust problems". I doubt we will ever see epic stages like Sanremo at night as a result.

In all honesty I think that having too many sprint style events is really not good for the WRC as it waters down the level of skill needed. SuperRally has also contributed to it.

The power stages are only there to keep up viewer interest. If WRC had the ratings of F1 they may not be there at all.

Hirvonen is also winging about "danger" in stages and "dust problems".

Thanks to power stages, SupeRally and only 2 manufacturers who are competing full time, my interest was never so low in WRC as it is this year. Now I follow with much more enthusiasm the IRC, ERC and the national championships.

I agree with N.O.T. and AndyRAC.

Off topic: It is great to see you posting again, A.F.F.

[janvanvurpa]

Sounds like that you have been hanging out too much with those motocross guys :)

No just got back from last Regional rally where I was 'kau-draiver' in Volvo 240 driven by my friend Al Kun, aka Al Kunkanenn.
Damn those 240s work good!
In this part of USA everybody gets a honorary Finnish name if they show any real spirit, and I am the offical dispenser of Finnish names.

Funny thing is I never got one....Just the old stand-by Jan van Vurpa.

Andyway poor head doesn't work, very sick with flu and what little brains that didn't get knocked out before has turned into whatever it is I am coughing up and blowing out of my poor nose...

[Rallyper]

No just got back from last Regional rally where I was 'kau-draiver' in Volvo 240 driven by my friend Al Kun, aka Al Kunkanenn.
Damn those 240s work good!
In this part of USA everybody gets a honorary Finnish name if they show any real spirit, and I am the offical dispenser of Finnish names.

Funny thing is I never got one....Just the old stand-by Jan van Vurpa.

Andyway poor head doesn't work, very sick with flu and what little brains that didn't get knocked out before has turned into whatever it is I am coughing up and blowing out of my poor nose...

I´ll having you in my thoughts. Me myself had an heart attack last Saturday. Had a ballon blow and a Stent operated in my heart vein. Feeling good now. Even better than before.
Have to admit I´m an old man now....

[Woodeye]

Funny thing is I never got one....Just the old stand-by Jan van Vurpa.


Jan van Vurpa... that must be Janne Varpunen in Finnish. :D And that back to english is nothing else but Jack Sparrow. :D

[dimviii]

I´ll having you in my thoughts. Me myself had an heart attack last Saturday. Had a ballon blow and a Stent operated in my heart vein. Feeling good now. Even better than before.
Have to admit I´m an old man now....

wish all the best mate with your health.

[Rallyper]

wish all the best mate with your health.

Thank you! Your thoughts feels good.

[Tomi]

Funny thing is I never got one....Just the old stand-by Jan van Vurpa.

Andyway poor head doesn't work, very sick with flu and what little brains that didn't get knocked out before has turned into whatever it is I am coughing up and blowing out of my poor nose...

Its not that bad, Jan Two Vurpa would make people to belive you are on your nose all the time, good Finnish name for you would be Janne Lippanen almost an direct translation.
Tell your wife to make you an old Finnish-Asian drink, cook some ginger (lot of ginger only little water) mix that then with for you so well known Kossu, and drink that, if it dont help, it's any way nicer to be sick after drinking it.

[Tomi]

Per, good your ok now and feel better than before, next summer NORF igen?

[tfp]

I´ll having you in my thoughts. Me myself had an heart attack last Saturday. Had a ballon blow and a Stent operated in my heart vein. Feeling good now. Even better than before.
Have to admit I´m an old man now....

All the very best wishes mate!

[janvanvurpa]

I´ll having you in my thoughts. Me myself had an heart attack last Saturday. Had a ballon blow and a Stent operated in my heart vein. Feeling good now. Even better than before.
Have to admit I´m an old man now....

Oi Oi Oi I sitter here och deppa att jag är så sjuk and have a nap and get up and read this Jössus! Tur att det blev fixade! Thank goodness that the healthcare system där borta is more civilised than the djungel o strul vi har här i Fästing Amerika.

Good luck for the future, maybe it's time to think about all that drinking and late nights chasing jäntorna...

Ut nu o springa i skogen! Fixar allt!

[Tom206wrc]

This is official since today...so welcome Miko Hirvonen to Citroën Racing 2012 :D

[Nornbugger]

This is official since today...so welcome Miko Hirvonen to Citroën Racing 2012 :D


you will no doubt be hoping for more of the same from Mikko now! :D

[OldF]

Mikko on twitter 2 hours ago:

"On way to cumbria for the final time today with jarmo. looking forward to seeing everyone..."

[tfp]

Mikko on twitter 2 hours ago:

"On way to cumbria for the final time today with jarmo. looking forward to seeing everyone..."

I did remember Malcolm saying he hopes he comes back one last time. Maybe this is it.

[Tom206wrc]

Keep on your way Miko !!!
You seem to start to better adapt to the DS3 WRC(two best times yesterday, "only" 23" late on Petter)...Good luck for today two passages on Turini :)

[Tom206wrc]

Encouragements to Mikko Hirvonen who is doing very good job currently in Sweden !!! His battle vs Latvala is awesome :)
Loeb's mistake on SS7 also saved Mikko from a Citroën team order in case of victory :p :

GO MIKKO !!!! :bounce:

[Tom206wrc]

I'd like to congratulate Miko for the job he's doing so far in the DS3 ;)

[tfp]

I'd like to congratulate Miko for the job he's doing so far in the DS3 ;)

+1 :up: Diddnt he finish second in Mexico last year?

[Wim_Impreza]

Please Mr.Hirvonen,
Be in the ditch as much as it is possible..
Regards

And now he is in a Citroën, you want that he stays on the road I suppose?

[Barreis]

Let the best win.

[olschl]

Wow! At least no one holds a grudge around here for very long.

[jens]

The interesting thing is that Mikko doesn't need to do anything different to be a successful driver. Okay, he hasn't won a title (yet?), but he is often in the hunt. Had he kept on with his "cruise and collect" mode in Rally GB last year, he would be a world champion now. Also current Portugese rally shows that even if everyone goes off, Mikko is always a safe bet to carry on.

[Tom206wrc]

This is one of the best chances for Hirvonen to win the rally(Vodafone Portugal)and to take the head of the championship ;)
GO MIKKO GO !!! :bounce:

[RS]

The interesting thing is that Mikko doesn't need to do anything different to be a successful driver. Okay, he hasn't won a title (yet?), but he is often in the hunt. Had he kept on with his "cruise and collect" mode in Rally GB last year, he would be a world champion now. Also current Portugese rally shows that even if everyone goes off, Mikko is always a safe bet to carry on.

Your text shows why Mikko is the perfect No.2 driver. Maybe he will get a chance at the title next year if Loeb retires though?

[julkki]

Your text shows why Mikko is the perfect No.2 driver. Maybe he will get a chance at the title next year if Loeb retires though?

True but only Loeb and Latvala are the current drivers that I would put for no. 1 before him. And in the current form Mikko would be no. 1 before Latvala also.

[A FONDO]

Hirvonen cant be a champion with the new point scoring system

[Langdale Forest]

Why?

[logic]

Hirvonen cant be a champion with the new point scoring system

O do you mean the citroen points scoring system lol

[A FONDO]

I mean, with 10-8-6-5, cruising (his only manner of fighting) pays off sometimes, but with 25-18-15-12 differences become huge very quickly

[jens]

I mean, with 10-8-6-5, cruising (his only manner of fighting) pays off sometimes, but with 25-18-15-12 differences become huge very quickly

The difference between those two systems is basically minimal though. Percentage-wise 3rd place has the same value compared to P1 in both systems. If points were scored by the older 10-6-4-3-2-1 system, then it would be difficult for Mikko.

One more aspect though - powerstage points, which could prove crucial for the championship - Mikko hasn't been getting many of them so far this season.

[Tom206wrc]

Congratulations to Mikko for his first, and intelligently earned, victory with Citroën Racing :up:

[tfp]

Congratulations to Mikko for his first, and intelligently earned, victory with Citroën Racing :up:

I second that, well done to Mikko and Jarmo for a flawless performance and a deserved victory!

[N.O.T]

Mikko is turning into the Sainz of the new era...

[A.F.F.]

I should be happy about Mikko's win but when Loeb, Solberg and Latvala were out, all I could think was... paistaa se päivä risukasaankin :mark:

[Coach 2]

I should be happy about Mikko's win but when Loeb, Solberg and Latvala were out, all I could think was... paistaa se päivä risukasaankin :mark:

että paistaa aina niitä, jotka ansaitsevat sen

[Plan9]

Maybe a little to early to celebrate his win yet?

[tfp]

Maybe a little to early to celebrate his win yet?

How do you mean?

Er, what is going on with the stewards??

[Plan9]

Mikko did not win this rally but we do have a measure of how the next generation of drivers is shaping up (in my opinion Mads and Novikov have been very, very unexpectedly lucky today)

[tmx]

He can get away with the 0.01mm difference in the turbine wheel, but probably not non-homologated clutch.

Apparently,
Visitors found this page by searching for:
makes me sick and loosing all hope for the human race
the human race makes me sad

[N.O.T]

He can get away with the 0.01mm difference in the turbine wheel, but probably not non-homologated clutch.

Apparently,

Damn...

Oh god....What have i done ???????????

LOL

[Tom206wrc]

Hirvonen is doing a very good job in Argentina at the moment :up:
He would deserve the victory after the undeserved disqualification in Portugal :mark:

[Tom206wrc]

This week-end in Acropolis Hirvonen was a bit disappointing after his punctures of day one(too quickly stop fighting)but on the results the Ford drivers once again "give him" the maximum points he can get behind his world champion teammate ;)

[Francis44]

I think Mikko is doing what he always does, driving carefully and scoring as much points as possible. On a personal level, I think the change of teams hasn't really made much difference on his pace, which suggests the cars may not be that different. In fact, as of now, he is not much faster than he was last season in the first half. In Monte Carlo, falls behind Solberg, in Sweden struggles to win an event he had previously won easily, in Portugal does well however we all know how atypical that rally was. In Argentina he did very well, but then again he always did do well there. Now in Greece by far the slowest of the facory guys.

This just proves to me that Mikko always was and always will be the best choice for a second factory seat, nothing more.

[Tom206wrc]

And once again, some great job from Mikko, currently in N-Z :cool:

[Tom206wrc]

Even if no victory in Finland for Mikko, congratulations for his resistance to Seb' until the end of the rally :cool:

[A.F.F.]

Mikko gave no real threat to Sebastien, no need to congratulate him for that.

[stefanvv]

Mikko gave no real threat to Sebastien, no need to congratulate him for that.

I agree, Loeb seemed to push only just to stay ahead in very controlled way. He didn't allow Hirvonen to pass him in front, this would be real battle.

[tfp]

I agree, Loeb seemed to push only just to stay ahead in very controlled way. He didn't allow Hirvonen to pass him in front, this would be real battle.

Must be a french thing, alain prost used to do the same "win the race as slowly as possible" thing.

[Rallyper]

Must be a french thing, alain prost used to do the same "win the race as slowly as possible" thing.

At least I heard Seb saying he pushed as hard as he could several times. Or he just said that...? No I dont think so.

[Francis44]

Nah I think Loeb hasn't been pushed properly this year. Last year it was a different case because of Ogier, I honestly believe he was on his limits at times, that's why he made some mistakes not very characteristic of him in 2011.

[Rallyper]

Unless he didn´t put lies in face of Colin Clark at stage ends, he has pushed all the way in NORF 2012.

[rp]

No way! Loeb drove just so fast as was needed and followed the splits all the time. After last year and Ogier´s fight this year it has been like holiday for Loeb...

[Karukera]

Must be a french thing, alain prost used to do the same "win the race as slowly as possible" thing.

Dunno, i'm not into cliché.

On a factual side, it certainly is a PSA thing to kick a Fordie's arse on a regular basis.

[stefanvv]

Dunno, i'm not into cliché.

On a factual side, it certainly is a PSA thing to kick a Fordie's arse on a regular basis.

PSA? May be just Citroen. AUDI kicked Peugeot .... in Le Mans on regular basis, but Ford is not AUDI after all.

[Karukera]

You're on a rally forum, not Le Mans. Welcome aboard.

[stefanvv]

You're on a rally forum, not Le Mans. Welcome aboard.

Thank you, may be I'm not that familiar with PSA and Citroen Racing administrative stuff.

Edit: btw looks like 2006&07 Ford kicked PSA .... :D

[tfp]

Thank you, may be I'm not that familiar with PSA and Citroen Racing administrative stuff.

Edit: btw looks like 2006&07 Ford kicked PSA .... :D

Where is Gronholm when you need him :vader:

[Gregor-y]

Never mind that, where's Timo Salonen?

[stefanvv]

That's why Group B was forbidden...

[Karukera]

Edit: btw looks like 2006&07 Ford kicked PSA ....

You're new to the sport.

Ford kicked nothing in 2006 and 7 but they indeed had a respectable couple of years. Both Ford and Citroën won 8 rallies/year.

In 2006, while Citroën was leading the manu series, Loeb stupidly broke his shoulder in the swiss woods, missed the 4 last rallies and his replacement was nothing against Grönholm/Hirvonen at Ford, hence the manu title went to Ford.

In 2007, a strong, quick and consistent Grönholm/Hirvonen Ford drivers line up made the difference again. That said Hirvonen did the job, without his consistency, Citroën would have clinched 2007.

Ford lost on the 2006, 2007 driver's titles or more fairly said to Ford, Grönholm crashed them twice.

[stefanvv]

You're new to the sport.

Ford kicked nothing in 2006 and 7 but they indeed had a respectable couple of years. Both Ford and Citroën won 8 rallies/year.

In 2006, while Citroën was leading the manu series, Loeb stupidly broke his shoulder in the swiss woods, missed the 4 last rallies and his replacement was nothing against Grönholm/Hirvonen at Ford, hence the manu title went to Ford.

In 2007, a strong, quick and consistent Grönholm/Hirvonen Ford drivers line up made the difference again. That said Hirvonen did the job, without his consistency, Citroën would have clinched 2007.

Ford lost on the 2006, 2007 driver's titles or more fairly said to Ford, Grönholm crashed them twice.

:D 20+ years with on/offs. I know Ford kicked nothing then, it was Gronholm's + Hirvonen consistency (and Loeb pause of course - he was still champion anyway).... but sometimes is just teasing people ;)

[Tom206wrc]

Today a bit disappointed by Mikko(first leg Rallye Deutschland) :(
Nevertheless rally is still veeeery long to go and we all know Ford boys often not reach the end without troubles, so... ;)

[COD]

Today a bit disappointed by Mikko(first leg Rallye Deutschland) :(
Nevertheless rally is still veeeery long to go and we all know Ford boys often not reach the end without troubles, so... ;)

But he can not even match the pace of Sordo and Neuville. Useless

[tfp]

Today a bit disappointed by Mikko(first leg Rallye Deutschland) :(
Nevertheless rally is still veeeery long to go and we all know Ford boys often not reach the end without troubles, so... ;)

Citroen will no doubt be very angry with Mikko if he cant secure another 1-2.... They will just have to make do with winning the Rally overall instead.....Damn Hirvonen! :p

But what did they expect? They knew he wasnt lightening fast on tarmac before they gave him a seat, as if he hasn't done a good enough job already for them?

Next season Citroen will learn they cant have everything their way :D

[N.O.T]

Mikko this year is doing a STELLAR job... whoever has issues with it must consider the circumstances.

[stefanvv]

Shouldn't expect podium from him in Germany. He never had one.

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Mikko was 3rd in Germany 2007.

[stefanvv]

Right, my mistake, didn't checked more than 5 years ago. Anyway looks this year the luck will smile him again ;)

[A FONDO]

Hirvonen is not a driver anymore. Just a servant.

[stefanvv]

After SS11: M. Hirvonen - "Hopefully we can get some time to Jarri and keep him under pressure.'
After SS12: M. Hirvonen - "Good afternoon. I find rhythm. I will put pressure to Latvala."
+ 2.8 seconds for these 2 stages, quite a pressure.

[janvanvurpa]

Hirvonen is not a driver anymore. Just a servant.

Yeah right.
He's a highly paid employee whose job it is to drive and pile up points..
Who pays you?

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Hirvonen is not a driver anymore. Just a servant.
Hirvonen's move to Citroen only makes sense if Loeb retires.

There is a kind of settling-in period which happens any time a driver joins a new team - and this happens in just about every form of motorsport. Both the driver and the team need to get to know one another; how they think, how they work, how they set the car up. The end result is that it takes some time before a driver is fully competitive. While Loeb chases his ninth title, 2012 is Hirvonen's settling-in period.

The beauty of all this is that when Loeb ultimately does decide to retire, Hirvonen is fully accustomed to the team, and can lead it. This means that Citroen will have a strong lead driver, and they won't need to shop around for something impossible to buy: a replacement for Loeb. Rather, Hirvonen will be Loeb's replacement, and the team will only need to find someone to fill Hirvonen's role as number two and the process starts over. I'm betting they'll take Thierry Neuville, though I wouldn't rule out them making a play for Ostberg or Mikkelsen. In that respect, I think Citroen have failed dismally - they don't have a wide range of drivers who compete in customer teams to call upon.

[COD]

Like M.Grönholm said on Finnish paper: Citroen will quit when Loeb retires, so Mikko will never be no.1 in any team

[kirungi okwogera]

Also what happened to the stories of Citroen transforming into a Peugeot WRC team with the 208?

I think SOMEONE will want Mikko considering his results this year - he is perfect no. 2 for Loeb, which gives him the best chance (along with Ogier) at being at the top when Loeb retires. I'm not so interested in Loeb vs. Ogier - someday the guy will show his age and slow down, so it's never really an even match up in their primes - but Hirvonen vs. Ogier would be an interesting fight in future for sure.

He seems the only guy who should be able to challenge Ogier consistently. Someone will recognize that and get him in a car, and my best guess is they will speak French.

[COD]

Useless no 1 tommeke

[N.O.T]

Like M.Grönholm said on Finnish paper: Citroen will quit when Loeb retires, so Mikko will never be no.1 in any team

Poor Gronholm... the brutal beatings he received by Loeb forced him to early retirement like a kitten and lost his mind... he even crashed out of sheer terror when Loeb came to the USA to claim his rallycross crown...

LOL

[stefanvv]

Poor Gronholm... the brutal beatings he received by Loeb forced him to early retirement like a kitten and lost his mind... he even crashed out of sheer terror when Loeb came to the USA to claim his rallycross crown...

LOL

Well, unlike "the real man" Hirvonen, he has 2 WDC.

[N.O.T]

Gronholm was a far better driver than Hirvonen and in the history of the sport he also is higher than him so far...

But that doesn't mean he can spout idiotic things (of course IF those are his words and not another star trek story from the Finnish media like the latvala contract which is most likely either false of a pay drive)

[stefanvv]

I don't know if he really said that, but makes sense as Citroen were on top with Loeb ever since, and neither they or he announced anything after this year what is gonna be... we shall wait and see...

[tfp]

Gronholm and Ogier have been Loebs biggest rivals so far in Loebs career IMO. I dont think Citroen will quit when loeb retires(I dont think he will retire at the end of the year) Only when Citroen fail to win their first manufacturer championship after Loeb leads, I think the funding will dissapear miraculously. A bit like what hapenned with Peugeot when Audi tore them a new a**ehole in LeMans.

[stefanvv]

Shhhh, we are not supposed to talk about Le Mans here :D

[tfp]

Shhhh, we are not supposed to talk about Le Mans here :D

:burnout:

:D

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Like M.Grönholm said on Finnish paper: Citroen will quit when Loeb retires, so Mikko will never be no.1 in any team
I don't think Citroen would be that stupid. Backing out when Loeb retires would be a serious blow to their credibility.

[Karukera]

Shhhh, we are not supposed to talk about Le Mans here

You learned the lesson well :up:

Out of despair, the only way is going Le Mans discussion when it hurts in the WRC :)

[stefanvv]

You learned the lesson well :up:

Out of despair, the only way is going Le Mans discussion when it hurts in the WRC :)

Hurts? No, I don't see VW entered yet, so it doesn't. On the other hand looks like Le Mans subject hurts very much :D but that's not my problem

[Karukera]

Hurts? No, I don't see VW entered yet, so it doesn't.

You're childishly picking up satisfaction in another sport to cure your WRC frustration.

I have no special if not distant interest in Le Mans except for my general culture, so no harm done.

As for VW, i can't wait to see the multi dozens of millions of that fabulous treasure chest budget in action on the stages against Loeb/Hirvonen :up: .

[stefanvv]

You're childishly picking up satisfaction in another sport to cure your WRC frustration.

I have no special if not distant interest in Le Mans except for my general culture, so no harm done.

As for VW, i can't wait to see the multi dozens of millions of that fabulous treasure chest budget in action on the stages against Loeb/Hirvonen :up: .

Oh My Dear God. You didn't understood the irony there didn't you? Anyway I used Le Mans for an example of how good Germans are to punish some French arrogance and put some people into place. Anyway N2 I really don't care if Loeb gets 8-9-10 titles, he got them - good for him, surely the current situation is not good for the sport - that is my point.

[logic]

Gronholm was a far better driver than Hirvonen and in the history of the sport he also is higher than him so far...

But that doesn't mean he can spout idiotic things (of course IF those are his words and not another star trek story from the Finnish media like the latvala contract which is most likely either false of a pay drive)


But you spout idiotic things here every day.

[Karukera]

that is my point.

There you come out of the woods. You basically pile up to the nationality bashing crowd.

Silly and complete waste of time.

For the record, PSA have been winning (at least) a title since 2000, it's mostly a one nation effort (decently funded) against an Anglo-US coalition.
But they barely advertise their wins when they should in what is also an industrial confrontation.
I neither see Loeb having an exagerated inflated head when he should after 8 titles in a row.
With the contribution of Hirvonen, Citroën are way ahead in both championships and on a streak of 5 wins including four 1-2 but they're still playing it low profile.

So i don't see your point but hey, nationality bashing has spoken.

[stefanvv]

Dunno, i'm not into cliché.

On a factual side, it certainly is a PSA thing to kick a Fordie's arse on a regular basis.

I'm sorry I wasn't totally clear in response the above :D

BTW as huge PSA fan, do you know which other 8000 of the above they are going to kick out :laugh: (if not done already)

[stefanvv]

I neither see Loeb having an exagerated inflated head when he should after 8 titles in a row.

I didn't saw him either, I wasn't referring to him (in fact he and I have something in common - we like jokes). That is another puzzle for you to solve :D

[tfp]

Oh My Dear God. You didn't understood the irony there didn't you? Anyway I used Le Mans for an example of how good Germans are to punish some French arrogance and put some people into place. Anyway N2 I really don't care if Loeb gets 8-9-10 titles, he got them - good for him, surely the current situation is not good for the sport - that is my point.


There you come out of the woods. You basically pile up to the nationality bashing crowd.

Silly and complete waste of time.

For the record, PSA have been winning (at least) a title since 2000, it's mostly a one nation effort (decently funded) against an Anglo-US coalition.
But they barely advertise their wins when they should in what is also an industrial confrontation.
I neither see Loeb having an exagerated inflated head when he should after 8 titles in a row.
With the contribution of Hirvonen, Citroën are way ahead in both championships and on a streak of 5 wins including four 1-2 but they're still playing it low profile.

So i don't see your point but hey, nationality bashing has spoken.

I dont see any nationality bashing in this post?

For the rest of your post, I saw in a top gear magazine the other day advertising how Citroen won the manufacturers title last year, and how they won 9 events out of 13 and how they did it. To Mr joe average it looks very impressive until I tell Joe average that Citroen only have one other team to beat, and an off pace team at that!

[christy but]

personally i think every driver is fantastic in the wrc .

[A.F.F.]

personally i think every driver is fantastic in the wrc .

Most of us couldn't do a reflection they do (up)

[Lousada]

For the rest of your post, I saw in a top gear magazine the other day advertising how Citroen won the manufacturers title last year, and how they won 9 events out of 13 and how they did it. To Mr joe average it looks very impressive until I tell Joe average that Citroen only have one other team to beat, and an off pace team at that!

I thought they beat around a hundred drivers every rally.

[steffforno]

I think that when Loeb retires is ready Neville!!!. Maybe Hirvonen Neville!

[MikeD]

Oh My Dear God. You didn't understood the irony there didn't you? Anyway I used Le Mans for an example of how good Germans are to punish some French arrogance and put some people into place.

Pfff, get a grip. The german brands have most often entered Le Mans a the sole competitor or with poor competition. The only thing that matters is how a car brand does in the two proper World Championships - Formula 1 and WRC. And here the French brands are kicking every other nationality car brands. I don't have to remind you of how many titles Renault have as both a constructor and an engine supplier in F1, do I? ... and I am sure you can count the WRC wins and titles that PSA has won with either Peugeot or Citroën - + the first one in 1973 by Alpine Renault.

French car brands always wins becaue their motorsport engennering is superiour to anyting else... that's for sure more than can be said of the German car brands ... or do you want me to list the succes (*cough* *cough* or lack of it) from Mercedes in F1?

So what you call French arrogance is just your lack of words why German brands suck at motorsport competition and winning titles that matters.

Deal with it!

[stefanvv]

Pfff, get a grip. The german brands have most often entered Le Mans a the sole competitor or with poor competition. The only thing that matters is how a car brand does in the two proper World Championships - Formula 1 and WRC. And here the French brands are kicking every other nationality car brands. I don't have to remind you of how many titles Renault have as both a constructor and an engine supplier in F1, do I? ... and I am sure you can count the WRC wins and titles that PSA has won with either Peugeot or Citroën - + the first one in 1973 by Alpine Renault.

French car brands always wins becaue their motorsport engennering is superiour to anyting else... that's for sure more than can be said of the German car brands ... or do you want me to list the succes (*cough* *cough* or lack of it) from Mercedes in F1?

So what you call French arrogance is just your lack of words why German brands suck at motorsport competition and winning titles that matters.

Deal with it!

:D I'm dealing with it just fine, don't worry. Oooo I know the French are good in what are they doing, also know how good the Germans are to make road cars ;) , but that is another story.

[stefanvv]

But as you raised the F1 as subject, this is the score table for engine manufacturers - List of Formula One World Drivers' Champions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_World_Drivers%27_Champions#By_ engine), and here for constrictors - List of Formula One World Drivers' Champions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_World_Drivers%27_Champions#By_ constructor)

I don't see Frenchman as big record breakers, they are even behind Ford here - LOL

[MikeD]

But as you raised the F1 as subject, this is the score table for engine manufacturers - List of Formula One World Drivers' Champions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_World_Drivers%27_Champions#By_ engine), and here for constrictors - List of Formula One World Drivers' Champions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_World_Drivers%27_Champions#By_ constructor)

I don't see Frenchman as big record breakers, they are even behind Ford here - LOL

Yes, the French are big record breakers if you compare it with how few years the have entered F1 - first Matra and the Ligier and then Renault. Ford is american so that doesn't really help you German "fight".

PS: There is something wrong in that Wiki-table you are linking to. Mercedes have never won an F1 Constructors championship. When they won i 1954 & 1955 it was only a drivers championship. The same goes for Alfa Romeo.

[stefanvv]

Whatever... I don't know how all this is related to Hirvonen though...

[Tom206wrc]

Urgh !!! Mikko very very slow on that first leg of RAC Wales Rally UK today friday(5th overall...for now) :s
But I'm confident though he will gain positions tomorrow and sunday(certainly helped by some others in front) ;)

[dimviii]

Urgh !!! Mikko very very slow on that first leg of RAC Wales Rally UK today friday(5th overall...for now) :s
But I'm confident though he will gain positions tomorrow and sunday(certainly helped by some others in front) ;)

Mikko after 9 rallies shows that Citroen isn t a supercar(even in asphalt)
Same performance as at Ford.

[stefanvv]

After last 2 Rallies (Germany & GB), what do you think of Hirvonen as Citroen N1 next year if Loeb goes? It might turn out Ford will have faster drivers next year.

[A.F.F.]

Mikko, I hope you realize that should you be the first driver of Citroen Total Abu Dhabi World Rally Team, cruising won't be enough !!!! They expect wins !! From you, from gravel. And most of all, from NORF !!!!! So I hope yopu enjoy the rest of this season, then think really hard how to change your attitude and deliver next year ! Because the pace right..... that's not going to be enough.

[dimviii]

Mikko will proove to all Loeb haters how much good was Loeb.
Remember plenty of times that Loeb won ''cause'' every team mate wasn t allowed.
Lets see the only real last years Loebs contenter how fast,and how many wins will gain at 2013 now as No1 at same team with same car.

If any of these Loeb haters want a bet feel free.

[miksu]

yeah, you have a point. But Mikko is also quite slow.

[Tom206wrc]

GO MIKKO !!!! Sardigna is the best chance for you to win in 2012(excluding Portugal) !!! :bounce: :bounce:

[kirungi okwogera]

GO MIKKO !!!! Sardigna is the best chance for you to win in 2012(excluding Portugal) !!! :bounce: :bounce:
Oh yeah I forgot about Portugal! Damn, this has actually been a really good season for Mikko, and here he is still winless because of a technicality. I hope he makes the finish line in Sardinia. When has the second best driver in a season not won a single rally!?

[A.F.F.]

Oh yeah I forgot about Portugal! Damn, this has actually been a really good season for Mikko, and here he is still winless because of a technicality. I hope he makes the finish line in Sardinia. When has the second best driver in a season not won a single rally!?

Since Loeb came around.....

[kober]

When has the second best driver in a season not won a single rally!?The last winningless runner up in WRC was Alex Fiorio in '89. Before him Stig Blomqvist in '85 and Hannu Mikkola in '80. One could also consider Markku Alen in '74, but that's only in virtual classification.

All of them way before Loeb era :)

[Tom206wrc]

End of penultimate leg of Sardigna...only two short stages left to run tomorrow sunday...almost "in the pocket" for Mikko now :cool:

[makinen_fan]

Unless another technical infrigment interfere :p
Hope not though... he deserves a win this year

[Tom206wrc]

CONGRATULATIONS MIKKO !!!! :bounce: :up:

[Plan9]

Having watched him get this win, I have a feeling this is how he will go about getting the title next year

[kober]

Well, we can say it already: Mikko Hirvonen - 2013 World Rally Champion!

... sounds good :)

[spiderem]

i am a big fan of Mikko, and really really hope he will get the title next year.
hopefully he will finish on a strong spain rally as well, to boost his confidence on Tarmac, and show that he is not far off the pace.
And with VW saying that they will not nominate a no 1 or 2, good chances to see JML and ogier eliminate each other!
So 2013 has to be THE year!
Go Mikko!!!

[kirungi okwogera]

The last winningless runner up in WRC was Alex Fiorio in '89. Before him Stig Blomqvist in '85 and Hannu Mikkola in '80. One could also consider Markku Alen in '74, but that's only in virtual classification.

All of them way before Loeb era :)

Interesting information! Thanks!

Here's an interesting statistic for you then: With this weekend's win, his 15th, Mikko now has more wins than Walter Rohrl and is closing in on Bjorn Waldergard's 16. The only driver with more wins who was not a drivers' champion was Markku Alen with 19 (who I believe "would have" won one year in the 70s before the drivers' championship rankings existed, right?).

[stefanvv]

Interesting information! Thanks!

Here's an interesting statistic for you then: With this weekend's win, his 15th, Mikko now has more wins than Walter Rohrl and is closing in on Bjorn Waldergard's 16. The only driver with more wins who was not a drivers' champion was Markku Alen with 19 (who I believe "would have" won one year in the 70s before the drivers' championship rankings existed, right?).

That's interesting statistics. So Hirvonen is already macthed in victories of drivers of 70's and 80's. I'm wishing him soon to compare to drivers from 90's and this century (without Loeb of course).