Quesnel's problem, a team boss' dream.

[A.F.F.]

Have those plenty in the past in different teams. For how long it'll take when mr. Quesnel have to reconsider his statement and think for the best of Team Citroen?? Meaning cooling things down and lower more prone driver to mistake, Ogier that is, to secure team points and let Loeb fight for the title ??

[dimviii]

I think he is already thinking different.The price to push Ogier instead of Loeb is expensive and he already paid it.
I really can t think that exists a manager that in his team he is going to push a rookie instead of a 7 times champion.He didn t won 7 champ by no reason or by lack.Hope he undrstood that today.
This pushing to Ogier can be when manufacturer championship is secured.Not in second rally of season while back in points from ford.Ogier as last year cant be consistent fast as Loeb and inside road.Patience will be good for him.

[Jake Stephens]

Quesnel is a lucky man in my view. He inherited the team from Frequelin and all I've seen him do is make stupid comments & decisions since.

[Barreis]

RedBull F1 team has the best tactics - equal drivers and the best wins..

[F1boat]

RedBull F1 team has the best tactics - equal drivers and the best wins..

This is McLaren-Mercedes, and only under Whitmarsh :)
Back on topic, Citroen are lucky to has such fast drivers!

[Francis44]

I think this problem might already have been solved as we speak.

[bluuford]

Well, Ogier has a really bad record right now. 4 offs in last 5 rallies and 0-podiums in last 5 rallies+1 destroyed car during the testing. He even beats Jari-Matti with that record!

[dimviii]

Well, Ogier has a really bad record right now. 4 offs in last 5 rallies and 0-podiums in last 5 rallies+1 destroyed car during the testing. He even beats Jari-Matti with that record!
Thats why i said that is Quesnels mistake.No orders to a rookie while he can t finish ralies continuesly? Totaly stupid.
I am just imagine what he could do with Jari and Miko.....

[tmx]

And I take the stance from a fan point of view. No thanks to all this PR crap, so he crashes, Citroen lose, nice for a change. I'm not a fan of him, but it's good there's another fast driver in the mix, I rather see him drive than to be a whipping boy, and I think with Ogier attitude is harder to tame than Latvala (or Sordo for that matter). Ford can capitalize on this to retake the titles this year.

“The situation is what it is,” he commented after Rally Mexico, when Ogier crashed out on the final morning while trying to fend off Loeb. “Up until this year I have been the team leader, but now there are two team leaders. He is trying to beat me and I am trying to beat him. For now this is the reality, later we will have to see. But I’m not very happy for him because he did not deserve this and I’m not very happy for the team to see just one Citroen on the podium.”

More craps from Loeb, I already understood your message. Okay then, let Ogier the faster one be the team leader and you support him. But the reality is Ogier is not new to this (and if I am correct someone here mentioned even the French govt is supporting Ogier), there will be immediate changes in the next rally. Ogier won't win Portugal this time. Or maybe he will, since he crashes out I figured he will be given a lower starting order?

[sonnyc4]

If Ogier had been told to play number 2 to Loeb everyone would be moaning that Citroen should let Seb 2.0 drive flat out and push Loeb.
Apart from those two mistakes he drove a near perfect rally even driving first on the road Saturday and 1 Stage Sunday, for me im glad there allowed to fight each other, its about time Loeb was pushed by a team mate.

[Francis44]

Ogier will probably win in Portugal if everything goes ok with him, I remember hearing last year that his driving was much more kind to tyres and Loeb not so much, and in Portugal that is a big factor.

Anyway Im sure Citroen isn't going to tell Ogier to control his times by Loeb from the beggining, that is a bad decision in my point of view, because in the end what teams really want to see is one of their cars in the top of the podium.

[dimviii]

Ogier will probably win in Portugal if everything goes ok with him, I remember hearing last year that his driving was much more kind to tyres and Loeb not so much, and in Portugal that is a big factor..

Are you sure about this?Ogier is always much more sideways than Loeb,from videos i ve seen.


Anyway Im sure Citroen isn't going to tell Ogier to control his times by Loeb from the beggining, that is a bad decision in my point of view, because in the end what teams really want to see is one of their cars in the top of the podium.
And this they didn t see last 8 years with Loeb?
Ogier is a citroen employe as Quesnel.They are paid for a reason and not for their ego,or their particular likes at drivers.Above them are marketing heads that want their decades millions of euros spent properly.Till now from results are spent properly,but balancies are very ''fragile''.
I have to say that i like very much Ogier(specially his aggresive driving comparing to Loeb) but here i am talking about Quesnels choices/decisions.
Ogier is 99% sure that is going to become world champion with his abilities and treatment from Citroens manager.But he has to wait some more,as we saw he is not so ''ready'' for this.Also i understant that Ogier is Quesnels creature, but he also must be patience with time.
There are two subjects.One is about Quesnels decisions for his team which i doubt they are right.Another is about a free competition without team orders for a championship with a lot of dramas.I can say that i prefer the second!

[Francis44]

Are you sure about this?Ogier is always much more sideways than Loeb,from videos i ve seen.

Im pretty positive I've heard this last year, his driving may be much more sideways but he manages his tires much better, and have you seen Loeb really pushing?! I've seen both fighting at the end of day 2 last year in Portugal and Loeb was as agressive if not even more than Ogier, and if both continue driving like this, Loeb will have problems aswell.

Regarding teams and Brands, perhaps Ford got the best result out of this rally but as a fan of the sport Citroen made the biggest impression, yeah both cars were not in the end but they showed supremacy and at the end of the day news were much more highlighted with Citroen pictures. What I am trying to say is that sometimes you make bigger impression even if not with the best result and that's what I think brands are looking for.

[6789]

Citroen won the rally, so they'd get the most coverage.

[dimviii]

Citroen won the rally, so they'd get the most coverage.

Sure Citroen won the rally, but took less points than Ford which were minutes back(Ford 33 points-Citroen 25 points)All these with Quesnels decision to free his drivers at second rally of year while back already in points from Sweden
Championships(which is the target) don t win woth coverage but with points.

[N.O.T]

its still very early.....hopefully the ford camp can do something otherwise its going to be a citroen sweep...

It was a bit stupid by quesnel to let them fight...but then again he did the right thing for sport, if he said to hold positions then everyone on here would bash quesnel like a snitchel before the grill.

[Brother John]

Told here already several times that Ogier this year will go off the road several times and not win the championship in 2011.
Loeb and Ogier are fast but there are many fast drivers who unfortunately have to do what the (only 2,5 :rolleyes: ) teams decide in the modern WRC!
I like that Mr. Quesnel make mistakes and says stupid things in the press before and after the rallies. :p
Unfortunately, everything must go in WRC to his liking, which we alo saw in the IRC Monte Carlo his typically French stupid comments. :s mokin:

[AndyRAC]

If i was Quesnel, I'd give Ogier one more chance at challenging Loeb for victory until another crash, and then it's No2 for him - supporting Loeb and picking up Manufacturer points. However, would Ogier accept this?
This is why I'd like to see 3 cars teams...

[koko0703]

Unfortunate result for Citroen but a good decision for the sport because none of us wants to see any driver being told to drive slowly.

[Zico]

If Ogier had been told to play number 2 to Loeb everyone would be moaning that Citroen should let Seb 2.0 drive flat out and push Loeb.
Apart from those two mistakes he drove a near perfect rally even driving first on the road Saturday and 1 Stage Sunday, for me im glad there allowed to fight each other, its about time Loeb was pushed by a team mate.

I understand the position team bosses are put in but I too would love to somehow see the drivers pushing each other to the limit with no team orders on every single event.
The only way to allow that would be the highest placed car for each manufacturer scoring sole manufacturers points. The drivers championship would then become a real, fair and open championship and the sport would benefit from it very much.

[Bobcat]

I don't see there any problem for the FIA's Citroen "Sport" group, they had always the strong help of FIA for their "fair" wins.

[RallyTyger]

The only way to allow that would be the highest placed car for each manufacturer scoring sole manufacturers points. The drivers championship would then become a real, fair and open championship and the sport would benefit from it very much.

That is actually not a bad idea... The manufacturers championship is after all a bit watered out already, with several teams registered as manufacturers even though there are only 2 (so far) car brands involved...

[Karukera]

I can sense some anger and bitterness after the Citroën show in Mexico, i just can't imagine a DS3 1-2-3, some forum members would have gone mad.

Little comment on Brother flemish's post. As the quote says : you can't expect any better from a flemish.

Back to the thread, a dream line up shouldn't be a problem unless it turns out something like Sainz/Mc Rae, Kankkunen/Burns etc... for the recent WRC era.

Latvala is a good example, he had an unfortunate streak of offs, whether he was put on a leash by MW or understood by himself (or both), he got over it, rebuilt his confidence, played his support part in the team, picked up big points and convincing wins.

While a clean fight down to the wire is always enjoyable, WRC is also about team efforts in a fierce competition, not only a matter of individual/ego driver glory, hence compromises.
Drivers must take that into account and drive accordingly, something Ogier the rookie hasn't learned yet.

[dimviii]

I don't see there any problem for the FIA's Citroen "Sport" group, they had always the strong help of FIA for their "fair" wins.

Τheir strongest help is that they know how to build a fast car.in their first gravel rally they won almost all ss, even with non factory entries(Petter).Only when cruising with 1,5min difference they allow to Ford to gain ss wins.be sure that this is not happening with FIAs strong help.

[N.O.T]

i just e-mail m-sport suggesting to withdraw the budget of wilson Jr and put it in the development of the car....i really would like to see their reply.

So far i see 2010 rivisited and its very alarming i must say....maybe this year ford will manage and get 2nd place with no problems, but if from 2012 on VW and BMW get serious about their projects i think ford is going to be the new subaru...

ok Ford only had its loyalty to advertise, since they are by far the biggest losers the sport has to show....no other team lost so many in such a long time of involvment, its a joke....but at least they can try and win something when the competition is not that high.

I do not know what is the budget wilson sucks from the team but it would certainly help since both cars are pretty undeveloped now....if they wait then the situation might be irreversible.

[Bobcat]

Τheir strongest help is that they know how to build a fast car.in their first gravel rally they won almost all ss, even with non factory entries(Petter).Only when cruising with 1,5min difference they allow to Ford to gain ss wins.be sure that this is not happening with FIAs strong help.
No, I think that their strongest help is that they know how to build their cars with something like the illegal FIA restrictor by Toyota.


In 1995, Toyota were caught using illegal turbo restrictors at the Rally Catalunya and were given a 12-month ban by the FIA. FIA president Max Mosley called the illegal turbo restrictor "the most sophisticated device I've ever seen in 30 years of motor sports." Toyota and their drivers, Kankkunen, Auriol and Armin Schwarz, were also stripped of all points in the championships. Kankkunen had been in contention for the drivers' world title.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/toyota-team-pick-up-a-oneyear-ban-1537474.html

I do hope this is really the future for the Citroen "Sport" group.

[dimviii]

So Citroen at last 8 years were with illegal engines?
Tell me more about Citroen illegal engines.I want to know more.

its good that you hope Citroen to have the same luck with Toyota.I am afraid that there is no other way for Ford to win.

[René]

No, I think that their strongest help is that they know how to build their cars with something like the illegal FIA restrictor by Toyota.


http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/toyota-team-pick-up-a-oneyear-ban-1537474.html

I do hope this is really the future for the Citroen "Sport" group.

If I have not doubt about the future of Citroën there, yours is much more uncertain. It would be careful that you bring the proofs of what you write, or that you erase fast. But maybe you have a very good lawyer?? What you write is not only stupid but certainly more of defamation.

sportingly

[N.O.T]

No, I think that their strongest help is that they know how to build their cars with something like the illegal FIA restrictor by Toyota.


http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/toyota-team-pick-up-a-oneyear-ban-1537474.html

I do hope this is really the future for the Citroen "Sport" group.

are you out of your mind ???

lol.

[A.F.F.]

I can sense some anger and bitterness after the Citroën show in Mexico, i just can't imagine a DS3 1-2-3, some forum members would have gone mad.

Little comment on Brother flemish's post. As the quote says : you can't expect any better from a flemish.

Back to the thread, a dream line up shouldn't be a problem unless it turns out something like Sainz/Mc Rae, Kankkunen/Burns etc... for the recent WRC era.

Latvala is a good example, he had an unfortunate streak of offs, whether he was put on a leash by MW or understood by himself (or both), he got over it, rebuilt his confidence, played his support part in the team, picked up big points and convincing wins.

While a clean fight down to the wire is always enjoyable, WRC is also about team efforts in a fierce competition, not only a matter of individual/ego driver glory, hence compromises.
Drivers must take that into account and drive accordingly, something Ogier the rookie hasn't learned yet.

There are not many drivers out there who can challenge Loeb by speed and consistency. I may be wrong when I guess but I'd say..... none.

I truly like Ogier´s attitude. Not because he is then more prone to make a mistake but he is one the rare drivers who can push Loeb. Maybe the fact he is Loeb's fellow countryman and in the same team, it affects Loeb more than Hirvonen and Latvala and Solberg.

[6789]

Such a blind Ford mark..

Citroën probably have a better engine because they invest money and develop it. You seriously don't work for Ford?

[A.F.F.]

Me?

[6789]

Me?
BobCat.. Was on my phone and couldn't quote. Sorry :)

[N.O.T]

i think he refers to Bobcat....who i might say he takes thing very very seriously.....its entertainment guys you must add more sick dog mentality to your thinking to have fun.

[tfp]

Such a blind Ford mark..

Citroën probably have a better engine because they invest money and develop it. You seriously don't work for Ford?

That would explain why the ford engine suffers from altitude sickness! Part of the result of one of the biggest car manufacturers in the world Versus M sport....And 7 long years of complete dominance from 1 driver.
Bring on VW :p :

[tfp]

As problems go though, I bet MW is jeallous of quesnel on that one:-)

[René]

From "L'equipe" french Sport news paper yesterday.
http://img51.imageshack.us/i/lequipe012ps.jpg/

They write about the strategy of Olivier Quesnel which asked on Saturday evening Loeb and Ogier to congeal positions up to arrival. What Loeb refused because it is only the 2nd rally of the year and because without technical problem he was in front of Ogier. I am here to earn one 8th title I do not have gift to do ! A win must never be a gift!

[bluuford]

I told you! After Loeb finished the stage where Ogier crashed, he was really distracted and sounded like he was asked not to push Ogier. But he did and after Ogier crashed he was a bit out of shape..

[N.O.T]

hmmm.... Loeb has a point but i think he went too far with this the team should matters beyond personal achievements...lets see how the year unfolds.

[GINE]

hmmm.... Loeb has a point but i think he went too far with this the team should matters beyond personal achievements...lets see how the year unfolds.

LOEB is LOEB!!!! He should not be second driver in HIS team. Remember that Loeb has made Citroen wht it is now. Unless he is out of the calculation for the championship, he should be number ONE!!!! Ogier, must wait. In one or two years he can be the number one driver

[Francis44]

I think it's pretty clear that Ogier wants to be champion with Loeb still around, he wants to beat him. Another interesting thing is a video I saw in Youtube where Loeb is arriving at service park and saluting all his mechanics and team member and Quesnel arrives to salute him but he seems very dissapointed and guilty, Loeb smiles and Quesnel retratcs immediately after shaking hands.

[René]

Quesnel was told for a long time! Loeb was very clear on this subject, during the renewal of his contract, before Ogier signs his last year, he suggested him to join Ford because he was not willing to being N°2.
Ask Loeb 7 times Champion to freeze positions during the 2th rally of the season, while he still is in position to win is unrealistic.
Sports are a battle and at the end it is the best which wins. Citroën has 2 greats combatants in the team, it is a big risk but it is Quesnel which is a dreamer by believing able of being to manage easily this situation.
Ogier wants to win, but especially to beat Loeb!! And loeb please not be allowed to make it without fighting... That's it. Who could blame him for it???
We shall never see Loeb driving as a civil servant, 2 minutes behind the best one, and waiting that they make an error to acquire the win. He will stop its career before it.
At same time we risk seeing this season of the enlivened rally's and not flavourless streams as sometimes.

[Karukera]

René, you forgot something of some importance in your translation, the article says "according to our sources". Means someone heard something behind a curtain... indeed, it's a source.

I don't buy the story of Quesnel freezing positions in Ogier's favor. Quesnel knew Loeb lost 50 seconds and that he was leading the rally fairly and squarely before it happened. Moreover, Loeb had a better 3rd day road position, 10 seconds only to recover over two long stages, making it a strong possibility for Loeb to win the rally, plus he knows Loeb's caracter.

But still, he would ask him to freeze positions in such circumstances ? no way, IMHO.

Quesnel probably said something like, we are leading tonight, i don't care who wins, i want my two cars on top of the podium. As a result of the apprentice willing to reach the master's level too early, Ogier crashed out.

If you listen to Ogier's interviews, he refers to other drivers and to "him" (Loeb), he never speaks in term of team and doesn't act like a team mate. There certainly is a discipline problem at Citroën for Ford's pleasure :)

[bluuford]

René, you forgot something of some importance in your translation, the article says "according to our sources". Means someone heard something behind a curtain... indeed, it's a source.



Probably that someone was me.. here in the forum :-P It is called snowball effect

[A.F.F.]

LOEB is LOEB!!!! He should not be second driver in HIS team. Remember that Loeb has made Citroen wht it is now. Unless he is out of the calculation for the championship, he should be number ONE!!!! Ogier, must wait. In one or two years he can be the number one driver

True... however, Loeb was like Ogier is now when Team Citroen was formed and contained drivers like McRae and Sainz and he admitted it himself. He said he understands Ogier very well but is going to fight for 8th title. This comment was made before Rally Sweden.

I think everybody forgets what kind of terms of a contract he was promised when moving to Team Citroen from Junior Team. He has made it very clear that he was promised there are no number one driver.

If I was Ogier, damn right I wouldn't settle to be number two. IMO he did right, too bad he made a small mistake which cost too much. Think Ogier would have win !!! He would be everybodys hero. I think his mistake was worth of a risk. :up:

[René]

René, you forgot something of some importance in your translation, the article says "according to our sources". Means someone heard something behind a curtain... indeed, it's a source.

But still, he would ask him to freeze positions in such circumstances ? no way, IMHO.

Quesnel probably said something like, we are leading tonight, i don't care who wins, i want my two cars on top of the podium. As a result of the apprentice willing to reach the master's level too early, Ogier crashed out.

If you listen to Ogier's interviews, he refers to other drivers and to "him" (Loeb), he never speaks in term of team and doesn't act like a team mate. There certainly is a discipline problem at Citroën for Ford's pleasure :)




You are right, precision is important, but I think that the journalist who was on place did not want to implicate the person having assisted debate brought back facts (certainly a Citroen Team member). It is specified in the article, that Quesnel finally let 2 Seb for fight by asking them to stay on the road.

“Ogier is surely one of my biggest rivals for title. Do not attack in my situation, 10 seconds behind him while I had a position favorable on the road, it was to give him a gift. And, not while giving gifts we can earn races and titles. (...) I did not wish what arrived at him, but when we leave to the attack we know that this can arrive, both of us. (...) In Portugal, he will have a good position on the road, I shall not ask him to give me a gift and it is normal. It is going to make his race, I shall make mine.”

We shall know more about this story very soon and the next Rally will be interesting to follow ;)

[6789]

Citroën WRT wins the drivers with Leob and Ford with the manufactures?

[A.F.F.]

Citroën WRT wins the drivers with Leob and Ford with the manufactures?

Íf things continue the way they are, that is going to be inevitable. More interesting is to follow how shall thing called teamspirit develop in team Citroen....

[N.O.T]

Citroën WRT wins the drivers with Leob and Ford with the manufactures?

no...Citroen wins everything.

[tfp]

no...Citroen wins everything.

Again.

[tfp]

I think it's pretty clear that Ogier wants to be champion with Loeb still around, he wants to beat him. Another interesting thing is a video I saw in Youtube where Loeb is arriving at service park and saluting all his mechanics and team member and Quesnel arrives to salute him but he seems very dissapointed and guilty, Loeb smiles and Quesnel retratcs immediately after shaking hands.

This is interesting...If Loeb really is going to retire at the end of this season, Quesnel is, of course, going to want a capable, talented,and most importantly of all, french driver to follow in the footsteps of loeb, and continue winning the drivers championship in a Citroen. So is it really all that unusual for quesnel to want Ogier to beat Loeb before he retires? I dont think so!

[N.O.T]

tfp...was sordo french ??

[tfp]

tfp...was sordo french ??

No, but he never pushed Loeb on gravel like Ogier can. And while Sordo was Citroens perfect team player(Always second to Loeb) and a very skilled driver, he was never going to challenge loeb for that number 1 spot, not like Ogier can.

[N.O.T]

sure, but you said ogier pushed loeb because he is french ??? because you said....

...talented,and most importantly of all, french driver to follow in the footsteps of loeb

[Zico]

sure, but you said ogier pushed loeb because he is french ??? because you said....

...talented,and most importantly of all, french driver to follow in the footsteps of loeb

eh? No, read back..

[F1boat]

LOEB is LOEB!!!! He should not be second driver in HIS team. Remember that Loeb has made Citroen wht it is now. Unless he is out of the calculation for the championship, he should be number ONE!!!! Ogier, must wait. In one or two years he can be the number one driver

I agree! Loeb is Loeb! The best, probably the best ever!

[N.O.T]

the best ever...not probably.

[tfp]

sure, but you said ogier pushed loeb because he is french ??? because you said....

...talented,and most importantly of all, french driver to follow in the footsteps of loeb

Haha :D
The point I was trying to make is that its clear that Quesnel wants another Frenchman to represent the manufacturer after Loeb retires. A lot like Mclaren have 2 british drivers representing their company, and Mercedes GP have 2 Germans representing their company etc.

[Bobcat]

http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/quesnel_denies_mexican_team_orders/

Yeah, the best ever - the world's best liars for ever and ever. ;)

[N.O.T]

better be the best liars than the biggest losers.....Ford team is the ultimate loser in the history of every motorsport....none in the history of motorsports competed for so long and won so little....its laughable and pathetic....i think we should make a special olympics style of motorsport in order for them to win something. they should publish a book after they finally quit (in 3 years maximum) to share their failures with the rest of the world...

see i can can use propaganda as well....and i am far better than you also.

[cali]

Well, think what WRC would be at the moment without Ford. Give them some credit that they are still in after all of this when other carmakers have left this sport

[Bobcat]

Ford team is the ultimate loser in the history of every motorsport....

Around numbers: Formula One 176 wins, NASCAR 600 wins, WRC 75 wins, V8 Supercars 175 wins and so on.

N.O.T, if you're calling them losers you must be a real "ultimate loser". ;)

[tfp]

Well, think what WRC would be at the moment without Ford. Give them some credit that they are still in after all of this when other carmakers have left this sport
:up:

[Plan9]

Around numbers: Formula One 176 wins, NASCAR 600 wins, WRC 75 wins, V8 Supercars 175 wins and so on.

N.O.T, if you're calling them losers you must be a real "ultimate loser". ;)

:up: +1

[N.O.T]

Around numbers: Formula One 176 wins, NASCAR 600 wins, WRC 75 wins, V8 Supercars 175 wins and so on.

N.O.T, if you're calling them losers you must be a real "ultimate loser". ;)

i care only for mens sports...so 75 wins in 100 years of involvment....losers is too much of a compliment for them.

[Iskald]

i care only for mens sports...so 75 wins in 100 years of involvment....losers is too much of a compliment for them.

100 years!! So Ford was one of the main players in the 1911 World Rally Championship, then? I suppose you can give us an update, N.O.T...

[BDunnell]

Another example of the deteriorating standard of discussion here?

[N.O.T]

100 years!! So Ford was one of the main players in the 1911 World Rally Championship, then? I suppose you can give us an update, N.O.T...

it was a figure of speech to stress the very long involvment of ford int he series.....

[rallyfiend]

i care only for mens sports...so 75 wins in 100 years of involvment....losers is too much of a compliment for them.

Pull your head in.

You seem to think everyone is entitled to your opinion.

You're wrong.

[Josti]

NOT's comments only show his lack of appreciation for the sport. He tends to take very little into consideration too.

[6789]

Whats with all the NASCAR bs in the tittles? Doesn't have anything to do with 1st of April? lol

[tfp]

it was a figure of speech to stress the very long involvment of ford int he series.....

So you would be happy if it was just citroen v citroen v citroen etc in the championship?

[N.O.T]

yes....because as it is now the car forms somehow the result not driver skill (Loeb would still be champion because he is the best ever) i think with an equal car Latvala and maybe hirvonen would be on par with Ogier and Solberg...

Fords plan for the moment is to ensure wilson gets more drives, rather than car development...

[BDunnell]

yes....

No true rallying enthusiast would ever be in favour of a one-make championship, which is what you are saying here.

[N.O.T]

once more you misunderstand....

If i was to choose between a 1 make championship of equal performance cars from a 5 makes championship with only 1 of them have a competitive car...then yes i would chose the one make one...

The ideal would be to have 5 makes with almost equal cars....or at least with no huge differences between them.

Ford is now once more far behind the citroens.....so this is not good for anyone.

[Bobcat]

Ford is now once more far behind the citroens.....
Ford 100 x Citroen 90 http://www.wrc.com/results/2011/championship-standings/manufacturers/

[Barreis]

Hope it will be changed soon..

[tfp]

yes....because as it is now the car forms somehow the result not driver skill (Loeb would still be champion because he is the best ever) i think with an equal car Latvala and maybe hirvonen would be on par with Ogier and Solberg...

Fords plan for the moment is to ensure wilson gets more drives, rather than car development...

Last time I looked Loeb was the current world champion :D

I wonder if budget limits would make the cars more evenly matched?
Although that would really annoy the PSA I'd imagine.

[Barreis]

It would be cool to see Loeb in VW for that 15 millions..

[N.O.T]

VW would be stupid to give Loeb 15 million NOW and Loeb would be stupid to leave citroen NOW.

[Barreis]

Guy was a person and thisone talks like a pussy..

[Allyc85]

But then if he did go to VW he could prove to the non Citreon fanboys (like you N.O.T!) how good he is and not that he only wins because his car is so good ;)

[tfp]

But then if he did go to VW he could prove to the non Citreon fanboys (like you N.O.T!) how good he is and not that he only wins because his car is so good ;)

If he wants to break further records, he should join PSWRT:-)

[tfp]

Guy was a person and thisone talks like a pussy..

???

[alleskids]

I think he means Guy Frequelin and Olivier Quesnell (this one)

[Barreis]

+1

[tfp]

Ok, I understand now:-)
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/31032011/58/loeb-denies-vw-wrc-link.html
If anyone hasn't seen it yet:-)
I wonder how the two sebs will get on in jordan?

[Karukera]

Guy was a person and thisone talks like a pussy..

+1

A simple fact : Loeb is a Frequelin product, Ogier is Quesnel's. The rest is flowing.

Ogier asked for team orders at the end of day 2 in Mexico, Quesnel jumped on that "what a good idea my dear protégé ! ", Loeb said something like "yeah, go and have an omelette instead, i don't hand over wins" ...
From what i understood in some forum communities, Citroën board now clearly favor Ogier over Loeb for $€£+ marketing reasons plus the fact that people are done with Loeb.
Note that about VW, Quesnel doesn't say they want to keep Loeb at all "price", just that he's merely "welcome", after what he did for them. Cruel world. :s tare:

[wildsir]

Ogier will be a bigger commoditiy for Citroen if he can beat Loeb before he retires, even Citroen know that.

[Tomi]

From what i understood in some forum communities, Citroën board now clearly favor Ogier over Loeb for $€£+ marketing reasons plus the fact that people are done with Loeb.

Offcourse they favor Ogier, he is the future in the team when again Loeb drives his last year, who people are done with Loeb?

[Karukera]

Offcourse they favor Ogier, he is the future in the team when again Loeb drives his last year, who people are done with Loeb?

They are not preparing Ogier to take over in the future, they want it to happen now, Loeb playing a supporting role would be ideal... (in their dreams)
You mean who are the people done with Loeb ? apparently Loeb no longer sells cars in their domestic market, the mass finds it 7 in a row too easy and boring.
Ogier is slightly younger and a master alpine ski instructor, good image marketing wise. Source is forums, googlish and a couple of PSA cars salesmen.

[jonas_mcrae]

I am done with Loeb winning in a Citroen, Loeb in a VW in the other hand... its interesting...

[wwbroe]

I'm not done with Seb Loeb yet, he is probably the best driver ever and Ogier, alltough being very promising, still has everything to prove.

[Barreis]

+1

[tfp]

They are not preparing Ogier to take over in the future, they want it to happen now, Loeb playing a supporting role would be ideal... (in their dreams)
You mean who are the people done with Loeb ? apparently Loeb no longer sells cars in their domestic market, the mass finds it 7 in a row too easy and boring.
Ogier is slightly younger and a master alpine ski instructor, good image marketing wise. Source is forums, googlish and a couple of PSA cars salesmen.

Ogier, a master ski instructor? I never would have guessed that :)
Its right though, Citroen have helped Loeb to 7 world drivers championships, citroen has taken the best he has to offer, and they now realise his retirement looms and he isn't the future for them anymore.
Also, any sport that has the same driver/player/team/whatever win a world series 7 times in a row is going to get predictable(Rally Deutscheland ;) ) and it takes the excitement away from the sport.
On the other hand, the old veteran doesn't want to give in to a youngster :)
I look forward to more close battles between the two sebs :)

[sollitt]

Source is forums, googlish and a couple of PSA cars salesmen. All good reliable sources, of course?

[Allyc85]

I am done with Loeb winning in a Citroen, Loeb in a VW in the other hand... its interesting...

Agreed! Come on Seb grow a set of balls and move to VW ;)

[N.O.T]

Agreed! Come on Seb grow a set of balls and move to VW ;)

lol...

[Bobcat]

They are not preparing Ogier to take over in the future, they want it to happen now, Loeb playing a supporting role would be ideal... (in their dreams)
You mean who are the people done with Loeb ? apparently Loeb no longer sells cars in their domestic market, the mass finds it 7 in a row too easy and boring.
Ogier is slightly younger and a master alpine ski instructor, good image marketing wise. Source is forums, googlish and a couple of PSA cars salesmen.
http://www.autohebdo.fr/endurance/le-mans/breve-27-5-14422/010411-loeb-et-ra%C3%AFkkonen-sur-la-908-hybrid4

[N.O.T]

very good news indeed, i wonder how many minutes will raikonen be behind and the excuses he is going to use.....

[tfp]

What does it say? Something about Kimi and Seb in the Le man 908 HDI?

[Barreis]

Would be nice..

[tfp]

Is this another late april fools? This is getting boring....

[alleskids]

What does it say? Something about Kimi and Seb in the Le man 908 HDI?

Sébastien Loeb and Kimi Raikkonen take the wheel of the 908 Hybrid4 during the test day of the 24 Hours of Le Mans, Peugeot Sport reveals today. Given the lack of available drivers for this first outing, Olivier Quesnel had no choice but to appeal to both rally drivers whose reputation is well established circuit. The link with the manufacturer Sochaux is logical since they display colors Citroën, the cousin of PSA in their discipline

[N.O.T]

quite likely is aprils fool....the news site is 01/04 but the m-sport propaganda official posted today....no wonder the ford are geeting such a beating already the seem to have the wrong people at the wrong posts in everything they do.

[tfp]

Sébastien Loeb and Kimi Raikkonen take the wheel of the 908 Hybrid4 during the test day of the 24 Hours of Le Mans, Peugeot Sport reveals today. Given the lack of available drivers for this first outing, Olivier Quesnel had no choice but to appeal to both rally drivers whose reputation is well established circuit. The link with the manufacturer Sochaux is logical since they display colors Citroën, the cousin of PSA in their discipline

Thanks:-)
If you could hand pick two wrc drivers to do a le man test it would probably be those two, bu surely, they would have other test drivers etc?