Firestone done after 2011

[EagleEye]

Firestone just let their motorsports team know that they will be out of Indycar after 2011. The official statement should happen at any time.

Time for Randy to pull another rabit out of a hat.

[Chris R]

Well, at least it creates new opportunity!! Ok, hard to spin this as anything good - but- on the other hand - there are other tire companies out there - the parent company did drop F1 last year, so it is not like Indy is alone in this... There are other good quality tire companies that may like a shot at drinking the milk - Michelin comes to mind (might want some redemption for their last visit to Indy.....

[call_me_andrew]

There are a lot of good tire companies to chose from: Continental, Hankook, Yokohama, Continental. I just hope the series doesn't get stuck with Hoosier; not that Hoosier makes bad tires, they just don't offer much marketing becuase they only make race tires.

[bugeyedgomer]

Firestone has indicated that it only sees about 1/10th the return on its investment in Indycar. Firestone indicates the only race series of note in the US, is NASCAR, and they would love to take part if NASCAR allowed others to compete, or Goodyear makes an exit.

It looks like Firestone will leave after 2011 unless the teams cover the costs for tires, and Firestone reduces its other marketing expenses.

Nobody will spend a tenth of what Firestone did

[EagleEye]

Well, at least it creates new opportunity!! Ok, hard to spin this as anything good - but- on the other hand - there are other tire companies out there - the parent company did drop F1 last year, so it is not like Indy is alone in this... There are other good quality tire companies that may like a shot at drinking the milk - Michelin comes to mind (might want some redemption for their last visit to Indy.....


I agree, there is no way to spin this into a positve. F1 has higher TV ratings than Indycar, so there was a reason Pirelli came onboard.

There are very few who could step up to provide a tire, and marketing that Firestone provided. You brought up Michelin, and they would be the top pick, if they decided to make a major marketing move. Bridgestone and Michelin often are one and two in the world in tire sales, with each ranking at the top on any given year. No matter who comes on board, the money spent will be much less than what Firestone provided unless there is a major uptick in TV ratings.

Bridgestone/Firestone will be bidding on the next NASCAR contract, so it would be a double blow if they end up there. One will need to keep up with the top motorsports people at Firestone, Speyer, Barbrieri and a few others to see if they remain with Firestone after 2011, and what their new titles will be.

There really are three catagories:

Top Tier: (Name/Current Major Series)

These companies have the technology and marketing budgets to help the series.

Michelin/ALMS

Has a major US location in Spartenburg. Rumor is they will be bidding on the next NASCAR deal...

Pirelli/F1

They have always had creative marketing. Their European calanders are legendary.

Goodyear/NASCAR

IF they get out bid for NASCAR, it would be logical for them to move back to Indycar.

Continental/Grand Am

Conti has upped the presence in the US, as the look to claim a larger share of the market here.

Second Tier:

Can make a race tire, but limited in marketing potential

To many to list but includes Cooper, Toyo, Yokohama, Hankook, etc.

Third Tier:

Good race tires, marketing disasters!

Hoosier, Avon (part of Cooper?) etc.

Needless to say a blow to the series, given the marketing and the timing with new cars and engines next year. Look for a harder tire, (less tires/weekend/race) which might make for better racing (less dust and marbles) but more driver complaints. I would think there would only be one tire manufacturer, as most series like to avoid tire wars.

[Chris R]

I think one of the other problems with the tire makers (and most other auto related industries) is that the technology has matured and there is little to be gained from racing technically and we all know racing is not the best marketing platform in the world.... Another issue is that everyone in racing is pretty quick to throw the tire makers under the proverbial bus.... why invest millions into a series only to be badmouthed....???

[TURN3]

Firestone leaving certainly isn't good from the standpoint of a major backer leaving while momentum is going strong. But, lets face it, Firestone has (along with Honda) stood beside Indycar and Champ Car (Bridgestone) through all of this. Without their support there would be no Indycar. Since they came on in the mid 90's, they've used Indycar as a platform to develope the best tires in the world, arguably. At some point, they don't stand to gain anything further.

I do see a positive spin to this where so many have said there isn't one. Frankly, the tires have been "too good" over the past 10 years. Maybe this will lead to greater driver dependency, require setups to be better by the engineers, and possibly rid of us the marbles to some extent.

[Jag_Warrior]

Since it looked like a distinct possibility for a few months that Firestone might leave, hopefully Bernard & Co. used that time to come up with a (realistic) contingency plan. I assume the new chassis will be ready for testing in 6-8 months, at the most. So it seems that having some idea of the type of tire that it'll be running on will make that testing better/more productive.

F1 was able to deal with Bridgestone's exit fairly easily (as far as I know). But in the case of F1, there were several tire manufacturers bidding on the supply... so they were already getting up to speed as they made their bids. I don't know that the IRL has that same luxury. Worst case, I guess the IRL could offer to pay Bridgestone/Firestone in full for all their expenses, if they'll *just* supply tires for one more year (no marketing or promotion), until they can get a permanent replacement.

Given the short time horizon, it'll be interesting to see how this works out. But one way or another, I expect there will be tires for the new cars next season. I think where the IRL is going to take the biggest hit (as others have said) is on the sponsorship and promotion front.

[bugeyedgomer]

who is going to sponsor Firestone Indy Lights

[Chris R]

seems like it might be a good fit for Mazda or Toyota to step back in to lights

[Chris R]

It seemed to me, nobody was chomping at the bit to do F1 for free or to pay for it.... for whatever that is worth....

[bugeyedgomer]

here is the original conversation from my earlier post

http://rallyforum.com/forums/showthread.php?140843-Firestone-leaving-the-series&p=880149#post880149

[px400r]

who is going to sponsor Firestone Indy Lights

Better yet, who is going to supply tires to Indy Lights?

[slorydn1]

Like others have said I can't see this turn of events being good for Indy Car at all. Firestone was the one real constant that they could count on all these years. Watched Speed Center last night and they seem to feel that Goodyear may be in the running to become the future supplier for Indy also, but as we have seen in the past, especially in F1, Goodyear probably needs to stick with making tires for stock cars and not mess with open wheel cars too much. I sure hope Randy has something up his sleeve.....

[anthonyvop]

seems like it might be a good fit for Mazda or Toyota to step back in to lights

Why?


On another note. I talked with the Continental Tire people over the weekend at Homestead. Said they had never even thought about taking over as the IndyCar supplier and then expressed doubt that they would be interested.

[slorydn1]

Why?

Why not?

[anthonyvop]

Why not?

Because Major Auto Manufacturers use a little more than the "Why Not?" logarithm before embarking on a major marketing program.

[rolinchicane]

With Firestone possibly not sponsoring FIL (and I haven't this yet), it is only logical for Cooper (USF2000) or Goodyear (Star Mazda) to step into that slot. They would be on site for most of the events at a ladder support series and would get TV time. ;)

[bugeyedgomer]

Why?


On another note. I talked with the Continental Tire people over the weekend at Homestead. Said they had never even thought about taking over as the IndyCar supplier and then expressed doubt that they would be interested.

who is capable of building the 4 different tires used


to break even for a tire company they would have to charge 900k for the year. Last year the tire budget was 300k and other manufacturers would not do it less than 500k. Firestone did give the teams a sweet deal.

[slorydn1]

Because Major Auto Manufacturers use a little more than the "Why Not?" logarithm before embarking on a major marketing program.

I see we have a real Sherlock around us now, don't we? I was merely responding to your one word "Why" post that you added to after the fact. Of course they have to do their due diligence, but that wasnt the point of the poster who merely pointed out it may be a good chance for them to get back into the sport. So again I ask, why not? See if you can do better than a smart aleck comment this time.

[TURN3]

who is going to sponsor Firestone Indy Lights

I'm certain no tire manufacturer is going to supply tires to the "Firestone" Indy Lights series BUT, Toyota continued to support the Long Beach Grand Prix for years after they've left the series now...and the engines have either been 100% Cosworth or 100% Honda in that timeframe.

[TURN3]

Except that Toyota doesn't sponsor that race. It's the dealer association that is the sponsor.

Which dealer association?

[Mad_Hatter]

Is that $900k amount for 4 tire compounds(wets, softs, oval, and standards) for the year? As the engine competition and aero competition are introduced in 2012, would a "softer" compound actually be needed?



As far as the Lights goes, this is all the more reason to split tire manufacturers and encourage limited engine competition when the new formula hits there too...

[Jag_Warrior]

Which dealer association?

I'm not sure of the formal name, but it's the Toyota dealers of Southern California that sponsors the Long Beach race. They've been sponsoring the race since it was an F1 race back in the 70's, and maybe F5000 too (not sure about that).

Firestone might continue to sponsor Lights. But if they're going to stop making the tires for the IRL, I'd be surprised if they'd devote resources to making a similar type tire for a series that has almost no commercial value (Lights).

[TURN3]

I'm not sure of the formal name, but it's the Toyota dealers of Southern California that sponsors the Long Beach race. They've been sponsoring the race since it was an F1 race back in the 70's, and maybe F5000 too (not sure about that).

Firestone might continue to sponsor Lights. But if they're going to stop making the tires for the IRL, I'd be surprised if they'd devote resources to making a similar type tire for a series that has almost no commercial value (Lights).

Thanks Jag...keyword TOYOTA. I agree 100% with you, I don't think Firestone will continue to sponsor Indylights (i.e. Toyota dropped their sponsorship of the Atlantics when they backed out). I was simply making an analogy according to a point that was raised about sponsorship.

[Jag_Warrior]

No problem, Turn3. I understand where you're coming from.

Say, who makes the engines for the Lights series now? I mean, has the engine formula changed since they used the Nissan/Infiniti? If it's something generic, maybe they could talk GM into branding the series and giving the series a few bucks for a title sponsorship.

[garyshell]

See if you can do better than a smart aleck comment this time.

Good luck with that. I wouldn't hold my breath.

Gary

[anthonyvop]

I see we have a real Sherlock around us now, don't we? I was merely responding to your one word "Why" post that you added to after the fact. Of course they have to do their due diligence, but that wasnt the point of the poster who merely pointed out it may be a good chance for them to get back into the sport. So again I ask, why not? See if you can do better than a smart aleck comment this time.

I ask a question and your answer is "Why not?"

Ok I will play your silly game......

Because if it was a good idea Mazda and Toyota would have already done so....Nobody, not even Firestone, was stopping them.

Infiniti (Nissan) Dropped the series in 2006 and Firestone only allowed their name to be used starting in 2010. Nobody...Especially Mazda or Toyota stepped up since Nissan's departure and I see no reason to do it now.

[anthonyvop]

Good luck with that. I wouldn't hold my breath.

Gary

May I suggest just not reading my posts if it doesn't make you all warm and fuzzy.

[bugeyedgomer]

No problem, Turn3. I understand where you\\\'re coming from.

Say, who makes the engines for the Lights series now? I mean, has the engine formula changed since they used the Nissan/Infiniti? If it\\\'s something generic, maybe they could talk GM into branding the series and giving the series a few bucks for a title sponsorship.

the engine has been unbadged since the 2005 season. it is the same 10 year old infiniti engine

[nigelred5]

IIRC, Speedway does all of the maintenance on the FIL engines.


With the indycars dropping to a turbo 4 and 6 engine spec, Lights need to drop down to a turbo 4cyl or a n/a 6cyl. Wasn't Mazda supposed to get involved in the Lights?

[garyshell]

May I suggest just not reading my posts if it doesn't make you all warm and fuzzy.

What, and miss out on all the amusement?

Gary

[anthonyvop]

What, and miss out on all the amusement?

Gary

Have fun with this one....


SPEED.com's Robin Miller reports that IZOD IndyCar Series teams voted among themselves to work with Firestone in an attempt to keep the company as their tire supplier. Firestone announced last Friday that it would end its IndyCar and Indy Lights tire supply a the end of the 2011 seasons, but Miller reports that an open forum of team owners produced a near-unanimous vote in favor of staying with Firestone "at any price." Whether Firestone would be open to reconsidering its decision is unclear.
http://www.racer.com/indycar-teams-to-petition-firestone-to-change-its-mind-on-departure/article/197951/?DCMP=EMC-RACER_DAILY

[nigelred5]

In otherwords, they SAY they are willing for it to be strictly a supplier deal with zero promotion just to have consistent, safe reliable race tires... untill they are paying full boat for them. I have to agree, they have been unbelievably consistent and trouble free for years, whether they were badged Firestone or Bridgestone.
No one wants Goodyears anywhere. I had put a set of GY gt's on my wife's Audi. I had two blow out, another break a belt and including the 3 replacements, all 4 were still total junk in barely more than a year. NEVER again, no matter what price.

[bugeyedgomer]

Tire Barn to supply tires for the new 2012 car

[Alfa Fan]

No there not!

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Firestone back through 2013!

http://www.indycar.com/news/show/55-izod-indycar-series/41625-not-so-fast-firestone-makes-tracks-back/

[billiaml]

Cool :D :

[anthonyvop]

Penske wrote a check

[Will Rogers]

Link?

Otherwise only speculation on your part.

I have no way of knowing if anthonyvop has specific, inside knowledge about Penske writing a check to Firestone to get them to continue supplying tires to IndyCar through 2013, or if he doesn't.

But I do know from experience that the single most annoying feature on these forums is when someone who does have knowledge about something being decided for which there isn't and won't be a "link" gets treated like dirt because they can't provide the revered "link" to those who mistakenly believe that if there is no "link" then it didn't happen...

[garyshell]

I understand your point, however there is a certain amount of, shall we say, "history" here that warrants starter asking anthony for a link.

Gary

[Will Rogers]

Al Speyer of Firestone wrote to me today in response to an e-mail I sent him congratulating he and Joe Barbieri on the new agreement, saying "The overwhelming positive reaction speaks volumes to this being the right course for all involved." There's no link to the quote/statement, but he said it whether anyone else wants to believe it or not.

[Leo Krupe]

I have no way of knowing if anthonyvop has specific, inside knowledge about Penske writing a check to Firestone to get them to continue supplying tires to IndyCar through 2013, or if he doesn't.

But I do know from experience that the single most annoying feature on these forums is when someone who does have knowledge about something being decided for which there isn't and won't be a "link" gets treated like dirt because they can't provide the revered "link" to those who mistakenly believe that if there is no "link" then it didn't happen...
There's a certain amount of critical thinking that goes along with claims, such as the Anthony made. Personally, I see nothing wrong with asking for a link for confirmation when Anthony, or anyone else, makes a definitive claim such as, "Penske wrote a check," with the implication being that RP wrote a check (to whom isn't made clear; Firestone presumably, nor is the amount made clear, but obviously a large enough check to keep Firestone in the series through 2013).

I've lurked here for awhile, and even though I'm a newer member with a low post count, I've read enough of Anthony's posts to be of the opinion that it's not out of bounds to ask for a link (and to make it clear, I'm not singling Anthony out, except for this specific claim--extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and all that).

[bugeyedgomer]

from the reports of the deal, every car owner, including Penske, will be writing checks, BIGGER checks

now i concede that I dont have a link to show that the physical size of the checks will be larger, I am only referring to the major numbers before the .99

[garyshell]

How about a link to those "reports of the deal" or at the very least a reference to where the rest of us might read these "reports" . But maybe you are referring to those from the local "journalist" in our midst.

Gary

[Mark in Oshawa]

When it comes to Tony, I want the link. He pretends to do journalism, and can make some good points, but his cynical and usually wrong assertions when it comes to Indycar have become boring and tiresome...

[Mark in Oshawa]

As for Firestone sticking around, fantastic. Within 2 years, we and they will know how good a decision this will be, but the jury is still out on where Indy Car is going, but I think they have bottomed out and are on their way back to relevency. There..no link..just my opinion.

[anthonyvop]

but his cynical and usually wrong assertions when it comes to Indycar have become boring and tiresome...

Care to point me out where I was wrong?