Graham Hill

[Mark]

Did anyone see the documentary entitled "Graham Hill: Driven" on BBC2 last night?

Some interesting footage and appearances from some of the drivers of the time and his family, including Damon, of course.

It'll be on iPlayer for the rest of the week: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00bv14q/Graham_Hill_Driven/

[BDunnell]

I think it must have been a repeat, as I'm sure I've watched this on YouTube.

[Sonic]

Yeah. A very good repeat granted, but still a repeat. They did a little series of these, Jackie Stewart was one, Jim Clark the other, and obviously Hill, did they do another I'm forgetting?

[UltimateDanGTR]

Yeah. A very good repeat granted, but still a repeat. They did a little series of these, Jackie Stewart was one, Jim Clark the other, and obviously Hill, did they do another I'm forgetting?

I remember watching something about John Surtees, but this was last year and I forget if this was part of that series.

[MrJan]

I believe it was shown on BBC4 as part of a 4 part series (as has been said, one Jim Clark, one Stewart etc.), but I think this was first showing on normal channels.

I didn't watch it as was busy trying to win the League Cup on FIFA but will try and catch it on iPlayer during the week. My old man said it was really good though :up:

[wedge]

Yep, shown last year on BBC4 on the run up to the British GP.

Produced by Paul Stewart's production company.

The Graham Hill one I enjoyed most. A master of PR.

[I am evil Homer]

Great piece...and when Damon says "I was heading off to school, said 'goodbye' and that was the last time I saw my Dad..." pretty damn moving. As for the man himself he was a true one off, shame we don't have people with his charisma in F1 any more.

[UltimateDanGTR]

Great piece...and when Damon says "I was heading off to school, said 'goodbye' and that was the last time I saw my Dad..." pretty damn moving. As for the man himself he was a true one off, shame we don't have people with his charisma in F1 any more.

Interesting you say that, I have no doubt that Graham Hill was one of the largest characters F1 has ever seen. Nowadays it seems alot of people complain about drivers being characterless, opinionless PR-glossed dull people. I have to disagree, because when I look at the current grid I see great characters like Vettel, Webber, Button and Barrichello along with the resident bad guy Alonso and the controversial character Hamilton. My point is whilst great characters like Hill, Clark and Stewart are things of the past, things aren't so bad now.

[Don Capps]

My point is whilst great characters like Hill, Clark and Stewart are things of the past, things aren't so bad now.

One may greatly differ with that point, of course.

[BDunnell]

There is, I would say, a tendency to think that all drivers of the past must be 'characters'. Certainly, Jim Clark was in no way an extrovert personality in the manner of Graham Hill or Jackie Stewart. A delightful man, by all accounts, but a 'character'? Of that I'm not sure. As for now — well, perhaps some of the current crop are mildly more interesting or articulate than others, but I wouldn't put them up on a pedestal in that respect.

[UltimateDanGTR]

One may greatly differ with that point, of course.

absolutely, apologies If I didn't make this clear.

[inimitablestoo]

Yep, shown last year on BBC4 on the run up to the British GP.

Produced by Paul Stewart's production company.
Close - it was in fact Mark Stewart, Paul's brother, and Jackie's non-racing son. Presumably the Stewart and Clark docs will be following either in coming weeks, or as a build-up to whenever the start of the F1 season actually turns out to be...

[UltimateDanGTR]

I've already checked the schedule by the way to see if there was another of the series same time next week....no such luck unfortunatly. We'll have to be vigilent on BBC4 I guess.

[Don Capps]

absolutely, apologies If I didn't make this clear.

No, you were quite clear, but I think BDunnell wrote much of what I would have provided. Racing drivers who are or were "characters" have always been few and very far in-between, there being more than a bit of romanticizing regarding the drivers of the past in this respect. Curtis Turner and Joe Weatherly were genuine characters who also happened to be racing drivers, the same could be said for Masten Gregory or Mike Hawthorn. Phil Hill was an interesting, even fascinating person to talk with regarding music and other such topics, but scarcely a "character." I had several talks with Jim Clark, only one of any length and that was not about racing, but farming and anything except racing. A very nice man, a gentleman in fact, but scarcely a character. Racing drivers as a whole, then and now, are pretty much boring people. Their interests tend to be fairly narrow and few really have much in the way of education. Those from the past only seem more interesting because the motoring press largely consisted of flacks and hacks whose efforts to make these people larger than life succeeded more often than not it seems.

So, you point, in my view, was well-made, there really is not as much difference in the drivers themselves today or yesterday as some think. It is all a matter of timing and circumstances. As BDunnell cautions, it is not wise to place racing drivers -- I would add athletes in general -- on a pedestal since it very rarely deserved.

[BDunnell]

Don, on this subject I would be very interested to read your view of Dan Gurney. From what I have read about him, he is someone I would place on a pedestal, to some extent at this. Would this be justified?

[Don Capps]

Don, on this subject I would be very interested to read your view of Dan Gurney. From what I have read about him, he is someone I would place on a pedestal, to some extent at this. Would this be justified?

I am always very, very hesitant to place any athlete upon a pedestal. Among my very few exceptions is Jackie Robinson, which might give one an idea as to what the standard for pedestals should be. Having said that, however, there are a number of athletes and racers that I do admire and respect or simply fascinating people. Among them is Dan Gurney, who was a terrific racer and one of the more interesting folks to drift into the racing business. This is good reason that so many thought so highly of him at the time -- he was the rare driver who seemed capable of being competitive in anything, anywhere, and at any time. Only Mario Andretti, A.J. Foyt, Jr., Stirling Moss, Jim Clark, Mark Donohue, and Walt Hansgen and maybe a few others were capable of doing something like that. Gurney was the first true "All-Rounder," being able to race at any level on either side of the Atlantic.

[UltimateDanGTR]

No, you were quite clear, but I think BDunnell wrote much of what I would have provided. Racing drivers who are or were "characters" have always been few and very far in-between, there being more than a bit of romanticizing regarding the drivers of the past in this respect. Curtis Turner and Joe Weatherly were genuine characters who also happened to be racing drivers, the same could be said for Masten Gregory or Mike Hawthorn. Phil Hill was an interesting, even fascinating person to talk with regarding music and other such topics, but scarcely a "character." I had several talks with Jim Clark, only one of any length and that was not about racing, but farming and anything except racing. A very nice man, a gentleman in fact, but scarcely a character. Racing drivers as a whole, then and now, are pretty much boring people. Their interests tend to be fairly narrow and few really have much in the way of education. Those from the past only seem more interesting because the motoring press largely consisted of flacks and hacks whose efforts to make these people larger than life succeeded more often than not it seems.

So, you point, in my view, was well-made, there really is not as much difference in the drivers themselves today or yesterday as some think. It is all a matter of timing and circumstances. As BDunnell cautions, it is not wise to place racing drivers -- I would add athletes in general -- on a pedestal since it very rarely deserved.

That's actually a very intruiging post, and you make some very good points there. In terms of character, I'd tend to agree not to put any proffesion on a pedestal as such, as you find big characters in all walks of life.

[markabilly]

No, you were quite clear, but I think BDunnell wrote much of what I would have provided. Racing drivers who are or were "characters" have always been few and very far in-between, there being more than a bit of romanticizing regarding the drivers of the past in this respect. Curtis Turner and Joe Weatherly were genuine characters who also happened to be racing drivers, the same could be said for Masten Gregory or Mike Hawthorn. Phil Hill was an interesting, even fascinating person to talk with regarding music and other such topics, but scarcely a "character." I had several talks with Jim Clark, only one of any length and that was not about racing, but farming and anything except racing. A very nice man, a gentleman in fact, but scarcely a character. Racing drivers as a whole, then and now, are pretty much boring people. Their interests tend to be fairly narrow and few really have much in the way of education. Those from the past only seem more interesting because the motoring press largely consisted of flacks and hacks whose efforts to make these people larger than life succeeded more often than not it seems.

So, you point, in my view, was well-made, there really is not as much difference in the drivers themselves today or yesterday as some think. .

I have met a number of fascinating people in racing. The only "character" that I have known in or from racing, and not known very well despite being a distant relative, is Carroll Shelby. A wheeler-dealer before he went racing, he continued that during and later after that time period. Love him or hate him like some do, quite a life and character.....while well known for his racing ventures, he had many other things as well, such as resturant chains and whatever else....don't know that I would place him upon a pedestal though, but all in all, overall, a "character" that puts many well known folks in the shade as far as being a "character"