The end of the road for the manual gearbox?

[Kneeslider]

Hey there all, its been a while since I have posted, but maybe I can put that right.

Anyway, lately, I have been in the fortunate position of being able to afford a 'new' car. My faithful Boxster has been my regular transport for 5 years, and its time for a change.

One thing you quickly realise when shopping for a 'new' (well, used, but new to me) performance car, is the sheer quantity of flappy paddle offerings, and full autos. When browsing for 996 and 997 series 911s, it seems like over half are now tiptronics! It also looks like most buyers of new cars want autos, while most buyers of used cars want manuals. The other interesting thing is that Tiptronics cost more new, but on the used market are cheaper than manuals.

Jaguar don't make a car with a manual box anymore, BMW M cars are the same, and Maserati, and Ferrari.

I want a proper manual, with a clutch pedal. I don't care if its not quite as fast from 0-60, but I am the one who is doing the driving, not simply mashing my right foot into the carpet and letting the car do the rest. I want to be able to toe and heel, blipping the throttle myself on downchanges, its all part of the skill and art of driving.

Maybe in a few years when no one is making manual gearbox cars anymore, the last manual box cars are going to start rising in value?

[Mark in Oshawa]

I sat in both a brand new Camaro and Dodge Challenger yesterday and BOTH had 6 Speed manuals. Three pedals, just where you like them. I think many of the luxury and high end automakers are going to the flappy paddle shifters, but in North America, the stick is still alive and well from what I have seen, but I must admit, with the newer 6, 7 and 8 speed Auto's, the need for a manual is dropping.

I drive a big rig and all of THOSE are going to Automatics now.....

[Mark]

Not a chance. At least not yet. Probably over 90% of 'normal' cars in the UK are manuals.

[veeten]

the thing is, you can only get a 'manual' with a lesser engine option, so as one can get the most out of it without any real loss in fuel economy. High end performance engines get either 'semi-automatics' or multi-clutch units, such as those for Ferraris, AMG-badged Mercs and M-series Bimmers.
Reasons as to why you can get more driving fun out of a hatchback with a clapped-out four-banger by winding it high before shifting than one can get from these High-buck mega-machines.

[Sonic]

I should imagine that, especially with the advent of electric cars and the like, that proper manuals will go the way of the dodo - mores the pity.

It'll probably take a few decades though before you simply can't buy a proper box.

[Rollo]

Ooh Porches, Jaguars and Kenworths... you're going to see those in the hands of a bored 19 year old who works at Tesco.

Do we really think that we're going to see flappy paddle gearboxes in a Kia, Corsa, or i20 soon? And will a bored 19 year old who works at Tesco pay that much extra for that, or more for an iPod slot?

[Bob Riebe]

I sat in both a brand new Camaro and Dodge Challenger yesterday and BOTH had 6 Speed manuals. Three pedals, just where you like them. I think many of the luxury and high end automakers are going to the flappy paddle shifters, but in North America, the stick is still alive and well from what I have seen, but I must admit, with the newer 6, 7 and 8 speed Auto's, the need for a manual is dropping.

I drive a big rig and all of THOSE are going to Automatics now.....
As a HOSER, YOU SHOULD KNOW that anywhere there is mud and snow, a manual is best. EH?

[BDunnell]

It was interesting hearing the F1 writer Nigel Roebuck make the point recently that when turbos were banned from F1, part of the justification was that they were irrelevant in the road car world. Now, they are about to make a comeback. Those of us — and I say 'us' because I include myself in this — who instinctively feel that such things as traction control and semi-automatic gearboxes have little or no place in F1, and who even hanker after the days of two-wheel-drive cars having prime position in rallying, ought probably to revise our views given the prevalence of such things in road cars nowadays, as sad as this is for motorsport.

[Roamy]

It was interesting hearing the F1 writer Nigel Roebuck make the point recently that when turbos were banned from F1, part of the justification was that they were irrelevant in the road car world. Now, they are about to make a comeback. Those of us — and I say 'us' because I include myself in this — who instinctively feel that such things as traction control and semi-automatic gearboxes have little or no place in F1, and who even hanker after the days of two-wheel-drive cars having prime position in rallying, ought probably to revise our views given the prevalence of such things in road cars nowadays, as sad as this is for motorsport.

yea they should put all the technology into the other series. F1 used to be about drivers. And cars used to be about "grunt" Lets bring back the clutch and the 5 speed.

[driveace]

Although in many countrys of the world the Automatic gearbox is the preffered choice of gearbox,I cannot see atime when Automatic gearboxes would be the number 1 choice for the UK motorist.Maybe the guys who are buying the high spec,powerful cars,will go for the Auto box ,as i have done with one of my cars,but as yet the other 3 are 3 pedal cars!

[Daniel]

As a HOSER, YOU SHOULD KNOW that anywhere there is mud and snow, a manual is best. EH?

You leave him alone eh Hoser!

[Daniel]

Dual clutch transmissions will take over I reckon. Whilst there's the obvious advantage in shift time, the efficiency savings are also pretty handy as well.

[Daniel]

I don't think I'd know how to drive an automatic, so not yet please lol.

rofl!!!!!! Just put it in D to go, N when you're at the lights and P when you want to park up.

[Bob Riebe]

You leave him alone eh Hoser!
I am not Canadian, eh.

[nigelred5]

rofl!!!!!! Just put it in D to go, N when you're at the lights and P when you want to park up.

Nope.

D to go, foot hard on the brake at lights, foot on gas when the light turns green, p for park. who ever uses neutral for anythign but hypermiling.???

[Mark]

I don't think I'd know how to drive an automatic, so not yet please lol.

Nowt to it. The only thing you have to remember is that an automatic when the engine is on, left to it's own devices will creep forward. Much like a manual car when left in gear.

So before you engage Drive you need to put your foot on the brake. Apart from that it's exactly the same except you don't have a clutch pedal and you don't need to change gear.

[Rollo]

D to go, foot hard on the brake at lights, foot on gas when the light turns green, p for park. who ever uses neutral for anythign but hypermiling.???

If you left an automatic box in Drive at a set of lights with your foot hard on the brake at lights and did that consistently, what sort of stresses does that throw through the gearbox over its lifetime? And do you need to replace an auto box more often if this is the case?

I don't know since I've never owned a car with an automatic gearbox, so I guess I'm asking out of ignorance. Certainly I've seen plenty of clutch plates worn out too quickly becuase people were riding the pedal.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I've never driven an automatic. Driving a manual is just second nature after a few years.

[Daniel]

Nope.

D to go, foot hard on the brake at lights, foot on gas when the light turns green, p for park. who ever uses neutral for anythign but hypermiling.???

As Rollo said, this puts stresses on drivetrain components such as torque converters......

Thanks but no thanks!

[Zeakiwi]

rofl!!!!!! Just put it in D to go, N when you're at the lights and P when you want to park up.

Also put it in R and not D to reverse...
My tippy is quiet enough to make the engine revs hard to determine by ear. The car needs a dash mounted rev counter, or a head up rev display to use the car efficiently in tip mode so I just leave it in auto.
The future is cvt and dual clutch. There will still be Tremecs for the enthusiasts for a while yet.

[Mark]

The new Focus has a tippy gearbox with dual clutch pre selection. If I could afford it, I'd get one of these for my next car.

[Daniel]

Also put it in R and not D to reverse...
My tippy is quiet enough to make the engine revs hard to determine by ear. The car needs a dash mounted rev counter, or a head up rev display to use the car efficiently in tip mode so I just leave it in auto.
The future is cvt and dual clutch. There will still be Tremecs for the enthusiasts for a while yet.

True, I hadn't though of going backwards!

[Daniel]

The new Focus has a tippy gearbox with dual clutch pre selection. If I could afford it, I'd get one of these for my next car.

That's not a tiptronic ;) Tiptronics are automatic boxes where the driver has some control over which gear the car goes into, but can also put it in automatic.

New Focus is bloody ugly.

[Mark]

Fine whatever it's a semi auto.

[Hazell B]

Jaguar don't make a car with a manual box anymore.....

I had to look long and hard to find a Range Rover that was manual then fell lucky with a manual Jag by chance. People keep telling me they rarely see manual Jaguars, even at the cheapo end of the range like mine.

We had an auto. It towed very badly (the horse was rocked about and even started to refuse to go in the trailer after a few trips) and changed gear in the wrong places, or repeatedly up and down, with weight. We dumped it for a smaller manual pretty quick!

[driveace]

i have 4 cars ,3 manual and an Automatic with Tiptronic.
i tow a large caravan with the Automatic (currently in Spain),I find it more economical if I use Tiptronic ,AND i dont use Cruise Control,and get far more MPG,as I decide when to change gear.Having said that I pop it into Auto in large towns,like Poitiers,Tours etc,for ease.
For myself i am getting lazy,with age,so the Auto saves work,but I still prefer the Manual for driver Satisfaction.