Shootout thread

[e2mtt]

What does everybody think of the way the cars are driving?

Looks like Cousin Carl just made his first improper lane change of the year.

[e2mtt]

& now Kyle just lost it. :-)

[call_me_andrew]

I do like the faster laps, but wish they would lift.

[slorydn1]

Harvick was hitting the rev limiter the last 15 laps.....they were FLYING out there tonight. And the stupid yellow line rule screws up another good finish....

[call_me_andrew]

The yellow line rule still prevents more big ones than it causes. That's all anyone has or should ever ask of it.

[Sparky1329]

I'm not sure what I think about the way the cars are driving other than the're really fast. Several cars ran above the 200 mph mark. The single car runs don't seem to work very well. The driver who doesn't have a drafting partner seems to be SOL. There was some passing but not as much as there was before. A few of the drivers who were interviewed after they wrecked out said they were having a blast so I guess that's a good thing.

I think the RCR cars were really stout. The Burton/Harvick hookup was amazing until they got separated. The #24/#29 combo didn't seem to work as well as the #31/#29 one. I was happy to see Dale Jr doing so well until he got dumped. It was also nice to see Newman out front. But, as he said, he was a sitting duck and who didn't know he was?

Maybe I was expecting too much from tonight's race because of my own racing withdrawal. It wasn't a bad race except for the wrecks which I don't like. I just didn't think it was all that exciting. Thursday's races are usually much different from the Shootout because the stakes are different. I'll be glued to the TV Thursday afternoon.

[Shifter]

NASCAR unveiled their new Daytona Superspeedway package. The cars have 8 wheels, 4-wheel drive, 2 drivers and are powered by a restricted split-block v16 capable of 200+mph. Quite odd. The Shootout saw the best drivers out there trying to get a paycheck and not tear up equipment. I think the 500, OTOH, is going to be a derby.

[slorydn1]

The yellow line rule still prevents more big ones than it causes. That's all anyone has or should ever ask of it.
Why do I have to do this after almost every plate race? Do your homework and read the following, and then tell me again what big wrecks it has prevented.

Originally Posted Oct 20, 2008 by me:




By rule, Tony won the race.Period

But the rule SUCKS.

I said that when Jeff Gordon dumped Kevin Harvick in the 2002 Daytona 500 just before the entrance to turn 1 causing the big one. The reason why he did it? Because Harvick blocked him down and he had only two choices. Go below the line, lift, and lose a ton of positions, or hold his line and dump Harvick. He did what he had to to keep from getting penalized (either by NASCAR or self imposed by lifting).

I said that when Tony Stewart was penalized in the 2001 Pepsi 400 in the closing laps after being smacked down below the line (I wanna say the offender was Sterling Marlin but I don't remember for sure). Does anybody remember the video of Tony Stewart all up in Gary Nelson's grill after the race with Joe Gibbs straining to hold him back?

I said that when Kenny Wallace had his 1st decent finish in a long time wiped out at Talledega in 2003 when he got
pushed down below the yellow line in the tri-oval on the last lap (in exactly the same spot Regan Smith was in this year).

If the rule had been effect pre-2001:

Rusty Wallace would have won at least 1 Daytona 500;
Jeff Gordon would be two wins shorter ('97 and '99 500's) when he passed on the APRON going into turn 1 (Wallace was one victim and I think Elliot was the other)
Dale Sr would not have had win #76 (his left side tires were in the GRASS down the backstretch on one of those final laps when he went 18th to 1st in the 2000 Winston 500 (and the million $ fan would have been PISSED, remember the no bull 5?)

The rule is in place for "safety reasons". Riiigght. If you believe that I have some swamp land in central Florida for sale, too.

If its such a safety concern, show me video of just one big wreck, at either Daytona or Talladega, that was caused by someone going down there to make a pass. Show me one, just one, and I'll shut up for good. Some of you on here have large video collections so this shouldn't be to hard to do, if there is one.

If its such a safety concern, why is it not the rule at EVERY TRACK? Why, on 32 weekends every year, do I have to listen to an announcer almost apologize for a great pass we just saw, painfully explaining that its not out of bounds to do that here at Track X, only Daytona and Talladega?
If its such a safety concern, impose it everywhere (please don't, i'm being sarcastic because I don't believe it is).

I've already given an example of one caused BY the rule.

Going forward, what message did nascar send to Regan Smith? What they said to him, and all the other drivers, is the next time somone comes towards you like that, put them in the fence and drive on. It almost worked for Gordon in '02. Harvick and most of the rest of the field was torn up, Gordon was leading on a late race restart when he was spun out of line by Sterling Marlin causing the damage that Sterling was penalized for fixing during the red flag. If that didn't happen Gordon would have easily won, all of his competition was taken out in the big wreck.

The only the the rule has accomplished was that it has given NASCAR another tool for managing the outcomes of the races, right up there with freezing the field..Nascar gets to say who goes where, instead of the racers deciding that on the track

Pull those belts tight because next years plate races will be very interesting.


Man, sometimes I feel like I'm clairvoyant-why can't I be that way when I'm about to buy a lottery ticket or place a bet???

Originally posted by me after the 2009 Daytona 500




...No body seemed to really agree with me then, but this weekend there were two more wrecks were the yellow line rule at least partially contributed to hem; this one here, and the one in the NNS race when David Ragan dumped Mike Bliss in the trioval during the later stages of the race. In that deal it looked like Ragan finally did what a lot of Drivers have been saying the need to start doing. He put his left side tires in the line then didn't budge another inch when Bliss came down on him, and Bliss drove right across his nose. He could have lifted, but that would have cost him momentum and several positions on the track; or, he could have dropped down and passed him and been penalized for it. Instead Bliss penalized himself on Ragan's nose. I gave it a :up:


And finally, originally posted by me April 27, 2009:



I can think of MANY problems caused by yellow line rule:

1) 2002 Daytona 500. Harvick was leading the race and Jeff Gordon had a run on him. Harvick blocked him down to the line, Jeff refused to lift or go below the line, almost 20 cars taken out of the race. Poetic justice in same race: Jeff blocks Sterling Marlin to the line on a late race restart, Sterling dumps Jeff, and Ward Burton wins the 500

2) 2001 Pepsi 400. Tony Stewart gets drilled in the right side door by another car (replays showed that Stewart was hit) and Stewart goes below the line with 5 laps to go. Stewart was black flagged with 3 to go, refused to heed the black flag because the other car should have been penalized, too, ends up being scored the first car 1 lap down; comes seriously close to decking then Winston Cup Series director Gary Nelson.

3) 2003 Talledega (not sure if spring or fall). Kenny wallace gets forced below the line by another car as they are coming to the line, finishing 3rd. Penalized back to being 1st car 1 lap down, and again the offending car gets off scot free

4) 2003 EA Sports 500-Talledega. Elliot Sadler takes a wild ride, flipping several times because he tried to block Kurt Busch just before going into turn 3. Kurt held his line, the offending car paid the price (starting to see a pattern yet?)

5) 2008 Amp Energy 500. Regan Smith has huge run on
Tony Stewart. Tony Stewart blocks Regan below the line.
Regan Smith gets penalized to the end of the lead lap finsihing 18th. Tony Stewart gets no penalty for running him down there, given the race win.

6) 2009 Daytona 500. Dale Jr has huge run on Brian Vickers down the backstretch. Brian Vickers blocks Jr below the line. Because of the rule, Instead of just completeing the pass safely, Jr checks up, but not enough, trying to stay close to Vickers and not lose any momentum, Jr jumps back up above the line, dumping Vickers and taking out several cars.

7) 2009 Aarons 499. You just saw what happened today, don't make me have to repeat it.

And Those are just the penalties and wrecks caused by the rule. How about the non-calls, Like Jr passing Kenseth below the line in 2003? Instead of praisng an awesome racing move on Dale Jr's part, we are still, 6 years later, arguing whether or not NASCAR showed favoritism in not penalizng Jr for it. It shouldn't have even been an issue in the first place.

In the in both the '97 and '99 Daytona 500's, Jeff Gordon passed on the apron entering turn 1. Both passes were race winning moves. In the 2000 Die Hard 500 at 'Dega, Jeff passed Mike Skinner below the line (it was white then) just past the entrance to pit road, also a race winning move. And who can forget Dale Sr's run to the front in the 2000 Winston 500 during those last 4 laps. The 3 had his left side tires in the grass going down the back stretch, trying desperately to get to the front...he got it done! None of these wins would have happend had the rule been in place. Both Jeff Gordon and Dale Sr would have been penalized, and the victory awarded to someone else if events played out exactly the same way, or there would have been big wrecks causing those races to end under caution had someone blocked them, and they probably wouldn't have won, anyway (there was now GWC back then)

If it's soo bloody dangerous to go down there, then why on God's green earth is it legal at California and Las Vegas or any other freakin' oval they race on?!?!?!?



And if you search through the threads that those posts came from you would note that most people with memories and a pair of eyes pretty much agreed with them. I have been searching and seaching ever since Lee Roy stated to me in the same thread the first quote came from that there were wrecks caused by people going below the apron and I still havent been able to find a huge wreck caused by the lack of a yellow line rule, and the 2 times in memory that a car went pretty much into the stands injuring spectators in NASCAR were cause by a) a cut tire in the 1987 Winston 500 and B) BLOCKING because of the yellow line rule in the 2009 Aaron's 499.

Not mentioned anywhere above is the last 2 truck races at Daytona, and several plate races in the nationwide series (anyone remember the nationwide summer race at Daytona when one of the DEI cars-can't remember if it was Waltrip or Junebug driving-got dumped by Mike Wallace who went on to win-in the early part of the decade?)

So tell me, what has it prevented again? 'Cause I'm just not seeing it.

[beachbum]

Harvick was hitting the rev limiter the last 15 laps.....they were FLYING out there tonight. And the stupid yellow line rule screws up another good finish....As Kenny Wallace pointed out, the engine builders will be busy this week figuring out how to make the engines live at the much higher RPM's. I suspect the engine packages will also change to move the torque curve up the range a bit and they will run different limiter chips. That may explain why the Toyota's that are real slow alone are really fast in the draft. Mention was made about a year ago about how they were working on a wider power curve for the restrictor plate engines.

As for the yellow line rule, IMHO it is just another artificial NASCAR tool to control competition. All Newman had to do to keep from being passed was move up a half lane and sucker Hamlin below the line. Bye bye Denny.

[NASCARWidow]

I understand the yellow line rule and agree with it most of the time; but I think that when you are coming to the checkered that it shouldn't be in play. If they want to go 5 wide from the grass to the wall , let them.

[dunes]

IMO the problums with the wrecks so far is the drivers had no idea it would be this fast and ccompetitive and I feel they might all get out there in practice and run the red line for a while. I look for some top performers starting from the rear next week due to unfamilure driving lines and speeds.

[call_me_andrew]

Hamlin goes below the yellow line and crashes in 2006.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEzDEa6ArzU

Earnhardt knocked into grass by Cheever in 2001 IROC race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x3V5U701jw

Ward Burton goes below the line, washes into Earnhardt in 1998.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ir7DAhOG4E

[Lee Roy]

Thanks.

BTW, from what I remember, the yellow line rule was requested by the drivers.

[wedge]

What he said:


I'm not sure what I think about the way the cars are driving other than the're really fast. Several cars ran above the 200 mph mark. The single car runs don't seem to work very well. The driver who doesn't have a drafting partner seems to be SOL. There was some passing but not as much as there was before. A few of the drivers who were interviewed after they wrecked out said they were having a blast so I guess that's a good thing.

I think the RCR cars were really stout. The Burton/Harvick hookup was amazing until they got separated. The #24/#29 combo didn't seem to work as well as the #31/#29 one. I was happy to see Dale Jr doing so well until he got dumped. It was also nice to see Newman out front. But, as he said, he was a sitting duck and who didn't know he was?

Maybe I was expecting too much from tonight's race because of my own racing withdrawal. It wasn't a bad race except for the wrecks which I don't like. I just didn't think it was all that exciting. Thursday's races are usually much different from the Shootout because the stakes are different. I'll be glued to the TV Thursday afternoon.

[slorydn1]

Hamlin goes below the yellow line and crashes in 2006.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEzDEa6ArzU

Earnhardt knocked into grass by Cheever in 2001 IROC race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x3V5U701jw

Ward Burton goes below the line, washes into Earnhardt in 1998.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ir7DAhOG4E

1) Hamlin goes below the yellow line and crashes in 2006. A) He didn't go below the line as the rule was in effect in 2006 and B) he was hooked in the right rear by a car in the middle lane-had he been able to go down below the line this wreck could have been avoided.

2) Earnhardt knocked into grass by Cheever in 2001 IROC race. I shouldn't even address this one it was an IROC race but I'll do my best- Earnhardt was passing him to his inside and Cheever body slammed him off the track into the grass-anyway the only out come of this was that Cheever had to run and hide in the garage area to keep from getting his face beat in by Earnhardt after the race was over. Move along, nothing to see here.

3)Ward Burton goes below the line, washes into Earnhardt in 1998. I almost had to give you this one as the TV slo-mos after the wreck start from the point his left side tires were just below the line before he came back up the track. But once I was able to locate what car he was in I rewound it back and its clear thar Ward wasint trying to pass down there, he has been weaving back and forth almost like a dart without feathers since the entrance line for pit road and he didn't get it completely straightend back out until he hit Earnhardt. Nice try, I gotta give you an "A" for effort, but your gonna have to come back with someting better than that.

[slorydn1]

1) Hamlin goes below the yellow line and crashes in 2006. A) He didn't go below the line as the rule was in effect in 2006 and B) he was hooked in the right rear by a car in the middle lane-had he been able to go down below the line this wreck could have been avoided.

I just rewatched this again-something didn't feel right. I watched the whole thing this time. Thanks for MAKING MY POINT FOR ME!!!!! Had he been able to go completely down there to avoid Blaney who was blocking him down there (oh and again, no penalty for the blocker) Instead he gets two wheels just below it which wasnt readily apparent whenn I only watched the first few seconds from the "live shot" and when he and Blaney make contact it sets off the big one. So let me add this one to MY list as Exhibit 8-thanks again :up:

[nigelred5]

Put a wall down there and solve it all. It's like driving through a city with jersey walls on both sides with my wife in the car.

She's always nagging, stay away from the wall , you're too close. Babe, What wall, I haven't even touched white line?