Kubica's replacement... (It's Heidfeld!)

[Bagwan]

Bad news .
It sounds as though we may not see Robert on the grid this year at all .

This will put an end , at least for the next while , to drivers doing any extra-curricular activities that involve more than walking from bare floor to a carpetted section .

He must have been pushing hard , pre-start , to get the feel .
I hope he comes through this with flying colours .

I must confess that I didn't much like him when he came on the scene .
He replaced Jacques , my favourite driver .

But , I have warmed to him over the past couple of seasons as a driver who could get in to mix things up a little , despite not having a car to match the talent .
Now , it looks like he is the one who needs a replacement .

Nephew Senna is not up to the job , but there is a driver available who has loads of experience out there .
He'd fit in nicely , as he knows the team .
They've got his set-ups .
They might even still have one of his seats in the back room somewhere .

The press would be unbelieveable .

Bring back a WDC to replace the driver who replaced him years ago .
Bring Jacques in to replace Robert .

And , Robert , get well soon .

[Tazio]

No! Time to bring Kimi in to champion RK's cause!

[foxystoat]

May aswell get Mansell back as Jacques !
I hope they go with Heidfeld or try and loan Hulkenberg from Force India or even Chandhok.

[gloomyDAY]

Grosjean.

[Tazio]

This is quite a turn of events!

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/127/l_af95994401594561ba1567a821266e96.gif

[DazzlaF1]

Well they have got 4 "Reserve" drivers. (Bruno Senna, Romain Grosjean, Ho-Pin Tung, Jan Charouz) none of them would excite me if I were a Renault fan.

Doesn't really matter about how good the car is now, Kubica's crash has I think really put them right in the brown stuff.

[janneppi]

They would propably do best with an experienced driver alongside Petrov, so Heidfeld might fit in better than one of their younger drivers.

[Stuartf12007]

i would prefer to see Senna in the seat

[DazzlaF1]

They would propably do best with an experienced driver alongside Petrov, so Heidfeld might fit in better than one of their younger drivers.

I dont think it'll be Heidfeld, that would show a bit of a disrespect to the drivers they've already signed up as their reserves. Of that list of reserves, i'd think Grosjean would be the favourite despite being a flop in 2009. Senna would at least bring a full season of experience (albeit in a poor car) so of the 4, i'd prefer to see Senna get it.

[N4D13]

I'd take Heidfeld, then de la Rosa, then Grosjean, then Senna.

If they're going to take Heidfeld or PdlR, it'd be best if they could grab them before the season starts in order to be able to gather their input for car development.

[DazzlaF1]

Well you can safely say that Chandhok will not be the replacement, just noticed a few people on twitter saying that he has got the reserve driver's role at Team Lotus

[driveace]

It will probably be the French driver,for the French team,but I would like to see the German driver in the car,Hulkenberg

[steveaki13]

I personally would like to see Heidfeld in the Renault.

But probably the best thing for Renault would be to approach Force India about taking Hulkenberg.

However I think they will put in one of their test drivers i.e Senna or Grosjean.

[steveaki13]

The team will obviously be in shock, but they need to make a call quite soon.

On the one hand they need to see how long Robert is likely to be out for, as if they need a driver for a season then their decision on a replacement will be a Hulkenberg or Heidfeld. Whereas if they think they only need a driver for 3 or 4 races, they may stick with Senna or alike.

Whatever they surely need to balance waiting for news of Robert with getting the new driver in asap so he can make full use of the limited testing availiable.

[driveace]

The team are now racing under a British License (announced recently) and are based in Enstone. Only a French name remains.

Maybe they are now racing under a British licence,and are based in the UK,as they have been for quite a few years,but the name and power unit are French.

[driveace]

The team are now racing under a British License (announced recently) and are based in Enstone. Only a French name remains.

Maybe they are now racing under a British licence,and are based in the UK,as they have been for quite a few years,but the name and power unit are French.

[Mia 01]

They will ask him for sure but I´m not so sure that he will accept the offer, he has his own rally team now. But perhaps he can put it on ICE for a year.

[truefan72]

honestly, to me Hulkenberg is the best option out there.

young , fast, talented and a winner. Driving in a quality car like a renault will see him shine.
Renault should call Force India and make it happen IMO

Next on my list would be Klien

Senna is definitely no good, Grosjean might be interesting, but the other 2 are simply not ready IMO

[Tazio]

honestly, to me Hulkenberg is the best option out there.

young , fast, talented and a winner. Driving in a quality car like a renault will see him shine.
Renault should call Force India and make it happen IMO

Next on my list would be Klien

Senna is definitely no good, Grosjean might be interesting, but the other 2 are simply not ready IMO

I forgot all about Klien.
I hope he gets some consideration.

[ArrowsFA1]

My guess is that Renault's decision will depend on the length of Kubica's absence. If it's short-term then you're talking Senna or Grosjean. Why employ them as reserve drivers if they're not going to be used in circumstances like this.

If they're looking for a long-term replacement then I think who knows! It's too late for Villeneuve, and Renault and Raikkonen didn't exactly hit it off a while ago so I don't see that happening. Given that they seem to be a team on the up I would have thought Renault will want an experienced driver who can step right in and be up to speed quickly. For me that would be Heidfeld.

[DazzlaF1]

My guess is that Renault's decision will depend on the length of Kubica's absence. If it's short-term then you're talking Senna or Grosjean. Why employ them as reserve drivers if they're not going to be used in circumstances like this.

If they're looking for a long-term replacement then I think who knows! It's too late for Villeneuve, and Renault and Raikkonen didn't exactly hit it off a while ago so I don't see that happening. Given that they seem to be a team on the up I would have thought Renault will want an experienced driver who can step right in and be up to speed quickly. For me that would be Heidfeld.

It'll have to be for the season now by the looks of it

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/02/06/kubicas-recovery-could-take-a-year-doctor-says/

[Tazio]

KR
NH
CK
One of those please.

[Ranger]

Heidfeld.

Can't see Senna-Petrov being a hit.

[anthonyvop]

My guess is that Renault's decision will depend on the length of Kubica's absence. If it's short-term then you're talking Senna or Grosjean. Why employ them as reserve drivers if they're not going to be used in circumstances like this.

If they're looking for a long-term replacement then I think who knows! It's too late for Villeneuve, and Renault and Raikkonen didn't exactly hit it off a while ago so I don't see that happening. Given that they seem to be a team on the up I would have thought Renault will want an experienced driver who can step right in and be up to speed quickly. For me that would be Heidfeld.

@eliseosalazar


Saben cual es la mentira mas grande d motorsports? ...." tu asiento t estara esperando para cuando te recuperes"

[Sleeper]

It'll be Senna. The marketing people at Renault will bust a nut at the prospect of having a Senna in a Lotus Renault with black and gold JPS style livery.

[Ranger]

@eliseosalazar

Felipe worked out ok, all things considered. No need to be that pessimistic if Robert makes a full recovery, regardless of timeframe.

[ShiftingGears]

I hope Heidfeld gets a drive - Renault are screwed as far as results are concerned if they rely on Petrov and Senna for the whole season.

[Kevincal]

Senna deserves a chance in a decent car. People are quick to judge him because of what they saw him do in the slowest car out there... The guy probably had little desire to push the limits in that car... What's the point? Half the time it was breaking anyway... Senna deserves 1 year to show what he can do just like Petrov. Most people wrote off Petrov last season but then after what he did in the last race he saved his job really...

[Norwegian Blue]

Ralf Schumacher... :D

[Ranger]

Senna deserves a chance in a decent car. People are quick to judge him because of what they saw him do in the slowest car out there...

Get beaten by two team-mates with even less experience of the same car?

I don't have anything against him but there are easily more deserving drivers.

[keysersoze]

Renault are truly effed if they cannot get a driver with the testing abilities and experience of a driver like Kimi, Nick or Nico H. I really don't think their army of reserves are up to the task of development. With an auspicious start at the first test, they have to look outside their current line-up. Not saying that they will, but it would be a disaster IMO.

I can even see them poaching a driver like Sutil, Glock, Trulli, or Kovalainen. Either would clamor out of their current contract for a chance to be a regular Q3 participant. For their part, Renault needs a steady, proven professional.

They might do wonders with a guy like Fisichella, who is not past his sell-by date.

No doubt about it--the phones at Renault are ringing off the hook.

Poor Robert! To be trapped in a car with serious injuries for over an hour--must have been excruciatingly painful.

[Kevincal]

but again hrt is so slow that its pointless which of the teammates is quicker... The cars break half the time and are not consistent to drive at all surely. Senna is not deserving in the sense that hes been around a long time and is consistently quick, but he is deserving in the sense that he was good enough to make to to F1, he deserves a shot in a half decent car to show what hes really got. most everyone else mentioned in this thread has had a shot in a decent car and did nothing special. so its time for another mediocre driver to drive in a mediocre car and get mediocre results! ;) then again maybe he'll surprise us and become another felipe massa. Renault has been a front runner (in the mid pack) ever since 2007... Kubica and alonso had a lucky win or 2 because the circumstances (luck) went their way, but i dont think anyone should expect renault to challenge for wins or even podiums (against mc, ferr, rbr)... no matter the driver.


Poor Robert! To be trapped in a car with serious injuries for over an hour--must have been excruciatingly painful.

Roberts co driver said he (kubica) lost consciousness almost immediately (from the severe pain). wondering if most of that hour he was totally out of it, passed out. in and out of consciousness maybe.

[ShiftingGears]

but again hrt is so slow that its pointless which of the teammates is quicker... The cars break half the time and are not consistent to drive at all surely.

That is completely unsubstantiated, and there is nothing to suggest that your statement is remotely true.

Senna got absolutely destroyed by Klien as soon as Klien stepped in the car. As alluring as having a driver named Senna in a Lotus Renault might be for sponsors, I can't see how the equivalent loss of competitiveness throughout the whole year would make it worth it for the Renault team, should Bruno be hired for the entire year.

[Koz]

Raikkonen would be perfect to just come in and drive. But that would mean abandoning the WRC save for Sweden, can't see that happening though. I also can't see Renault paying Raikkonen a lot to bring him in for only a year. But it could be good for Kimi if he would like to go with RBR for 2012.... :vader:
Fisi is the next best choice and with Flav out of the picture he might just make it back and give it one last parting shot before he's gone for good.
NH is the only other viable candidate. Senna would be a good marketing choice, but Renault needs a decent driver which he certainly is not the only thing he has going for him is his name.

Give it 24 hours and we'll start hearing JV rumors again...

[aryan]

My order of preference would be:

Kimi
Nico Hulkenberg
Nick Heidfeld

I doubt Kimi would step in for a 1-year deal in a mid-field team. But it would be good for him. And how awesome would it be to have 6 world champions on the field? Has that ever happened?

[longisland]

My money is on the young guns. Toro Rosso hit a jackpot with Vettel; ditto when Renault chose Fred albeit the 25% to Flav has more to do than anything else. Lets not forget Lewis. The bottom line is, choosing an experienced driver is a damage control measure and may backfire. Fisi was struggling with the Ferrari having won a runner-up position in SPA. The same could be said about De La Rosa in Sauber last season. Hulk is the obvious choice; Chanduk will be a good second choice and maybe Michail Aleshin or Estaban Guerreri. Senna may have an outside chance but I just don't see it in Grosjean. If they really have to go for an experienced driver, Nick is the obvious choice. Fisi will be up to the task even though he hasn't been driving but he knows the team better than any other drivers on the grid. Last but not least, Luca Badoer and Gary Paffet. These guys deserved a chance. If I could have it my way, Kimi's the guy and Massa.

[F1boat]

I'd like to see Bruno in a Lotus, people are judging him too harsly based on a single qualifying session. But the best possible choice, I have to admit, is Heidfeld, he is not spectacular, but is extremely consistent. But as I don't like him at all, I prefer Bruno or Grosjean.

[Roamy]

May aswell get Mansell back as Jacques !
I hope they go with Heidfeld or try and loan Hulkenberg from Force India or even Chandhok.

Of the above probably the only one worth taking a chance on over Jaques would be Hulkenberg. I can't understand the continued interest on this forum for Heidfield - Simply he has not won sh!t and he has had some decent cars. Jacques is much better than Nick and has much more knowledge of set up. JV would not wad up your cars and the media would be worth the price. But knowing renault they will pick a loser and blame the whole season on Kubica injuries.

[foxystoat]

Of the above probably the only one worth taking a chance on over Jaques would be Hulkenberg. I can't understand the continued interest on this forum for Heidfield - Simply he has not won sh!t and he has had some decent cars. Jacques is much better than Nick and has much more knowledge of set up. JV would not wad up your cars and the media would be worth the price. But knowing renault they will pick a loser and blame the whole season on Kubica injuries.

I can't understand the continued interest on this forum for Jaques he was hopeless in his last years in formula 1 & its now 6 years since he was in a car making him nearly 40. If he was slow and getting beaten by teammates at 33 & 34 he is going to be even worse now. His time is long gone look how Schumacher struggled last year after a couple of years out the car & that was with him finishing at the top of his game not at the bottom.
I would take Senna /Grosjean ahead of Jaques they would destroy him & they are no where near good enough to be Renault's lead driver, if they aren't careful they will end up right down the grid purely down to drivers. Heidfeld at least would give them some idea of the pace of the car & score regular points even if he isn't spectacular.

[Dave B]

There's still uncertainly about the likely length of Kubica's absence, so I imagine the situation will become clearer as he recovers. As has been said, Senna is an ideal short-term replacement - as well as a marketing wet dream - so I would predict they start the season with him and see (a) how he performs and (b) how Robert recovers.

If Bruno does the business then there's no need to replace him; if he's hopeless and Kubica looks like being absent for the long-haul then Renault can look for a replacement.

The inevitable talks of Villeneuve by a couple of old-timers who can't let go is laughable: there are dozens of better drivers available without resorting to someone who hasn't been any good for over a decade.

[52Paddy]

Luca Badoer

Ever considered stand-up? :rotflmao:

[Hawkmoon]

I don't get the love Heidfeld gets around here. He's average. Always has been. Always will be. Senna is even worse. The marketing guys will be hoping people won't see past the Lotus-Renault-Senna name to see the P16 he's likely to get each race.

If Kubica is indeed out for the year then Renault need a number 1 and the only number 1 that's been mentioned so far is Raikkonen. Renault would be mad not to enquire as to his availability. Stick him in the car for 1 year with a 1 year option and if it works out and Kubica comes back then Renault end up with one of the best driver lineups on the grid for 2012.

[Mark]

There's still uncertainly about the likely length of Kubica's absence, so I imagine the situation will become clearer as he recovers.

On the radio this morning they said it would likely be the full season. I think that's probably realistic, given the length of his recovery just back to normal fitness, never mind the level that F1 drivers require. If he gets back in the car towards the end of the year will of course depend on his recovery, but also on the performance of his replacement, if he's doing well then the team may wish to stick with him for the remainder of the year rather than have the disruption of switching drivers mid-season.

F1 is a cruel sport however, and there's no guarantee Kubica will be on the grid in 2012 even if fully recovered.

[I am evil Homer]

Options in order of preference:

Hulkenberg
Klein
Senna

[N4D13]

I don't get the love Heidfeld gets around here. He's average. Always has been. Always will be. Senna is even worse. The marketing guys will be hoping people won't see past the Lotus-Renault-Senna name to see the P16 he's likely to get each race.

If Kubica is indeed out for the year then Renault need a number 1 and the only number 1 that's been mentioned so far is Raikkonen. Renault would be mad not to enquire as to his availability. Stick him in the car for 1 year with a 1 year option and if it works out and Kubica comes back then Renault end up with one of the best driver lineups on the grid for 2012.
A quick point: even though I consider Kubica to be a better driver than Heidfeld, the fact is that Nick managed to beat him in 2007 and 2009. So I'm guessing that Heidfeld is kind of underrated. Not that he is WDC material though.

[Robinho]

Senna is the official reserve driver, Grosjean deserves another chance too, but he's got a GP2 drive fro now anyway.

I think Senna will fill in for the testing and the 1st few races, if he equals or betters Petrov then he surely is doing enough.

If Robert is to miss the whole year then maybe they will look to find a more experienced driver, but there aren't many out there at the moment. Liuzzi maybe, but he's not set the world on fire really. Hulk has only as much experience as Senna, although he may be a better prospect.

Hopefully Robert will be able to reclaim his seat before the end of the year too.

I can't see Kimi back, he's got a Citroen in WRC and seems happy to stay there, too late to make the jump back for this year (beginning at least)

Heidfield is the only other viable available driver out there really, but Renault have 2 reserve/testers with a years F1 experience so it would be rough on them to be overlooked when a genuine opportunity came up

[Mark]

Senna is the official reserve driver,

That's true, but that's more to fill in should the main driver be injured / ill very shortly before a race, and they can fill in on a race by race basis. In this case it's slightly different, with over a month to go until the start of the season and them potentially looking for someone to drive in all the races.

[I am evil Homer]

Kimi's also used his own money for the WRC so I doubt he'd throw that away to drive in F1

[jas123f1]

The car looks fast this year, therefore they should have a fast driver too and I don't know any other faster than Kimi Raikkonen.
They should ask him .. maybe he can help them?

[F1boat]

jas, you need to correct your signature - Kimi has already won his first rally:
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/19/straight-to-the-finnish-line-kimi-raikkonen-wins-his-first-rall/
You are waiting for a WRC win, I guess :)

[jens]

In my view Heidfeld is clearly the best option among available and interested (Kimi is not interested) drivers and I am surprised, how some can be downplaying him. Actually he is the only driver, who even remotely could step into the big boots left by Kubica and lead the team, which seems close to the top. Nick always manages to collect a good amount of points and this is what the team badly needs. And generally Heidfeld is a really adequate lead driver for an up-and-coming team like for instance Button was for BAR. Or Nick himself was in 2006-07 for BMW.

Others seem already a singificant step backwards. Alas I see Bahar, Lopez and Bouiller giving Bruno Senna the shot. Tying "JPS Lotus" with the name Senna would be too tempting. It can be argued that Bruno has probably more potential than it was evident during HRT days, but at best I'd expect him to turn out to be marginally better than Petrov, which isn't saying much. I actually believe Grosjean has more potential than Senna, but I have to admit he is a risky bet too.

I see more names having been thrown in here. Klien? De la Rosa? Liuzzi? Fisichella? Davidson? None is as good as Heidfeld, but if the situation is tight, they could be considered. Mainly for their experience (which the team seems to be seriously lacking at the moment) and also as a benchmark for Petrov.

Hülkenberg is a gamble too, he got a serious beating by Barrichello last year. But I think he could be more ready to produce results from the get-go than any of Renault's reserves. Still, I don't see him getting released from Force India's contract. And if people here are already talking about contracted drivers, Glock sounds like a decent option to me (Virgin's contract shouldn't be that expensive to buy out either) for damage limitation.

What seems important in all of this, is that the replacement driver seems to be needed for at least the whole season. If it was for a couple of races, you may expect someone like Heidfeld not to be too interested to be a seat-warmer for Kubica without having the opportunity to fully settle in and have a season-long impact. And the team could afford a rookie to flop (two bad races from the team don't ruin the whole season). But an experienced driver seems now vital in the long-run. Because if a rookie flops, it will be even more complicated to make a mid-season change due to in-season testing ban.

[Mark]

What seems important in all of this, is that the replacement driver seems to be needed for at least the whole season. If it was for a couple of races, you may expect someone like Heidfeld not to be too interested to be a seat-warmer for Kubica without having the opportunity to fully settle in and have a season-long impact. And the team could afford a rookie to flop (two bad races from the team don't ruin the whole season). But an experienced driver seems now vital in the long-run. Because if a rookie flops, it will be even more complicated to make a mid-season change due to in-season testing ban.

Exactly my thoughts, it's fine having a reserve driver who can fill in for 1 or 2 races. But that we're talking about a full F1 season here, which is a different matter entirely!

[ShiftingGears]

In my view Heidfeld is clearly the best option among available and interested (Kimi is not interested) drivers and I am surprised, how some can be downplaying him. Actually he is the only driver, who even remotely could step into the big boots left by Kubica and lead the team, which seems close to the top. Nick always manages to collect a good amount of points and this is what the team badly needs. And generally Heidfeld is a really adequate lead driver for an up-and-coming team like for instance Button was for BAR. Or Nick himself was in 2006-07 for BMW.

Others seem already a singificant step backwards. Alas I see Bahar, Lopez and Bouiller giving Bruno Senna the shot. Tying "JPS Lotus" with the name Senna would be too tempting. It can be argued that Bruno has probably more potential than it was evident during HRT days, but at best I'd expect him to turn out to be marginally better than Petrov, which isn't saying much. I actually believe Grosjean has more potential than Senna, but I have to admit he is a risky bet too.

I see more names having been thrown in here. Klien? De la Rosa? Liuzzi? Fisichella? Davidson? None is as good as Heidfeld, but if the situation is tight, they could be considered. Mainly for their experience (which the team seems to be seriously lacking at the moment) and also as a benchmark for Petrov.

Hülkenberg is a gamble too, he got a serious beating by Barrichello last year. But I think he could be more ready to produce results from the get-go than any of Renault's reserves. Still, I don't see him getting released from Force India's contract. And if people here are already talking about contracted drivers, Glock sounds like a decent option to me (Virgin's contract shouldn't be that expensive to buy out either) for damage limitation.

What seems important in all of this, is that the replacement driver seems to be needed for at least the whole season. If it was for a couple of races, you may expect someone like Heidfeld not to be too interested to be a seat-warmer for Kubica without having the opportunity to fully settle in and have a season-long impact. And the team could afford a rookie to flop (two bad races from the team don't ruin the whole season). But an experienced driver seems now vital in the long-run. Because if a rookie flops, it will be even more complicated to make a mid-season change due to in-season testing ban.

Absolutely agreed.

[Malbec]

In my view Heidfeld is clearly the best option among available and interested (Kimi is not interested) drivers and I am surprised, how some can be downplaying him. Actually he is the only driver, who even remotely could step into the big boots left by Kubica and lead the team, which seems close to the top. Nick always manages to collect a good amount of points and this is what the team badly needs. And generally Heidfeld is a really adequate lead driver for an up-and-coming team like for instance Button was for BAR. Or Nick himself was in 2006-07 for BMW.

Others seem already a singificant step backwards. Alas I see Bahar, Lopez and Bouiller giving Bruno Senna the shot. Tying "JPS Lotus" with the name Senna would be too tempting. It can be argued that Bruno has probably more potential than it was evident during HRT days, but at best I'd expect him to turn out to be marginally better than Petrov, which isn't saying much. I actually believe Grosjean has more potential than Senna, but I have to admit he is a risky bet too.

I see more names having been thrown in here. Klien? De la Rosa? Liuzzi? Fisichella? Davidson? None is as good as Heidfeld, but if the situation is tight, they could be considered. Mainly for their experience (which the team seems to be seriously lacking at the moment) and also as a benchmark for Petrov.

Hülkenberg is a gamble too, he got a serious beating by Barrichello last year. But I think he could be more ready to produce results from the get-go than any of Renault's reserves. Still, I don't see him getting released from Force India's contract. And if people here are already talking about contracted drivers, Glock sounds like a decent option to me (Virgin's contract shouldn't be that expensive to buy out either) for damage limitation.

What seems important in all of this, is that the replacement driver seems to be needed for at least the whole season. If it was for a couple of races, you may expect someone like Heidfeld not to be too interested to be a seat-warmer for Kubica without having the opportunity to fully settle in and have a season-long impact. And the team could afford a rookie to flop (two bad races from the team don't ruin the whole season). But an experienced driver seems now vital in the long-run. Because if a rookie flops, it will be even more complicated to make a mid-season change due to in-season testing ban.

Completely agree except for one point. I see three drivers already in F1 that could be tempted by the Renault drive, Sutil, Hulkenberg and Kobayashi. All three are IMO good enough for the drive though not yet as good as Kubica. All three drive for teams that would be happy to let them go if they were reimbursed sufficiently for the trouble.

And while I agree that Heidfeld is by far the best of the unsigned drivers floating around, Liuzzi is out there too.

Otherwise I think yours is a very accurate summary of the situation Renault finds itself in. They've been lucky to have superb lead drivers so far in Alonso and Kubica. Kubica's absence is going to be extremely painful for the team.

[foxystoat]

I would take Heidfeld over Liuzzi everyday of the week. They need a regular point scorer as Petrov will be out the top 10 more often than in it. Liuzzi isn't consistent enough to score regularly either.Glock is quite a good shout aswell tho if they could get him.

[truefan72]

the problem with Heidfeld is tht he is at the tail-end of his career and is very much a known quantity.
He won't win you a race, he won't really podium, He won't be shining in Qualy, but he will bring the car home in a solid 6-12 position.

To me, that is simply not good enough for that Renault seat. Heidefeld is a competent F1 professional, but I'd rather have a younger hungrier guy in there with some racing chops and a winners mentality. I'd even take DiGrassi over Heidfeld TBH

[truefan72]

yep

[DexDexter]

There simply isn't a good replacement for Kubica if you discount Kimi who has retired. All the men mentioned here are just good F1 drivers, not exceptional like Kubica.

[Bagwan]

The inevitable talks of Villeneuve by a couple of old-timers who can't let go is laughable: there are dozens of better drivers available without resorting to someone who hasn't been any good for over a decade.

Who you callin' an "old-timer" ?!!
Damn whipper-snapper wordies think they know it all .

At least we've got some damn heritage on our side , with a real Villeneuve , rather than "I'll use my middle name so I look like my uncle on the timing screens" Bruno .

Bruno has seen the trophy . Jacques owns one .
And , if you haven't noticed , he's raised many eyebrows in many series since he left .

He'd likely go for a performance-based pay cheque , and bring in possible massive sponsorship , given he had backers to buy in not so long ago .
He'd be the biggest news buzz going and put the team top centre along with all the other WDCs on the grid .

It's not so far fetched , Davy .

I look forward to the good ol' days of the future , with Mikey and JV side by side .
Damn , that'd be nice .

[SkodaSRT]

What about Kovalainen?
After the Lotus-Renault Combination would it be possible that he move?
And Lotus should use Grosjean or an other driver

[Stuartf12007]

if i was a renault reserve driver and got overlooked for someone outside of the team, id quit in protest and disgust.

Give Senna a chance.

[i_max2k2]

The #1 choice would have been kimi, but I doubt he'll come after his issues with Renault last year. And after that it would be Heidfeld since it now looks like Kubica will be gone for an year or so. I doubt any of the young guns will be consistent, however they do deserve a chance, perhaps give them a shot for a few races and see how it goes, and then bring in Heidfeld, but I'd rather have him now for testing and giving Renault some proper feedback, which they probably need a lot of. Hopefully Kubica will have a quick recovery!

[Nikki Katz]

I think they'll at least start the season with Senna, but a Senna/Petrov lineup seems really weak for a top(ish) team, I wouldn't be surprised if one was replaced after a few races. I think Heidfeld is the most likely replacement as the experienced driver to a comparatively inexperienced teammate.

[Kevincal]

renault = solid midfield team. Kubica only made it seem "topish" cus he is exceptional. Senna deserves a shot you never know he might surprise! After all F1 is 90% car 10% driver... If some no name like Petrov got a full year and did mediocre at best then why does Senna not deserve a shot? You cant judge him for last year in that hideous HRT... That car would make Ayrton himself look bad even...

[AndyL]

the problem with Heidfeld is tht he is at the tail-end of his career and is very much a known quantity.
He won't win you a race, he won't really podium, He won't be shining in Qualy, but he will bring the car home in a solid 6-12 position.

To me, that is simply not good enough for that Renault seat. Heidefeld is a competent F1 professional, but I'd rather have a younger hungrier guy in there with some racing chops and a winners mentality. I'd even take DiGrassi over Heidfeld TBH

Renault might think a known quantity is what they want in a substitute.

The stats don't really bear out your assertion that Heidfeld lacks podium quality. In their 3-and-a-bit years as team-mates at BMW/Sauber, Kubica scored 9 podiums and Heidfeld 8.

Edit: actually I think a lot depends on how good the Renault is this year. If the car is a winner, then perhaps Heidfeld's not the ideal choice; but if Kevincal's right that it's a mere midfielder, then he is. He beat Kubica in the years when the BMWs were uncompetetive, but lost out in '08 when it was a winning car.

[DexDexter]

renault = solid midfield team. Kubica only made it seem "topish" cus he is exceptional. Senna deserves a shot you never know he might surprise! After all F1 is 90% car 10% driver... If some no name like Petrov got a full year and did mediocre at best then why does Senna not deserve a shot? You cant judge him for last year in that hideous HRT... That car would make Ayrton himself look bad even...

F1 is 100% driver 0 % percent car since the car won't move without a driver... But seriously, maybe Senna deserves a shot, Hispania were so awful last year that it's pretty hard to make conclusions based on that even if some of his teammates were quicker than him.

[SGWilko]

Something to consider - courtesy of James Allen;

Bruno Senna is reserve driver and if he has brought money to the team, as has been suggested, that may come with a clause which gives him the drive da facto. If not, Renault may look to someone like Nico Hulkenberg, who will have a clause in his Force India reserve driver contract releasing him if a race seat comes up elsewhere. That is standard. It may be Nick Heidfeld who gets yet another chance.

[Tazio]

if i was a renault reserve driver and got overlooked for someone outside of the team, id quit in protest and disgust.G

And how would you pay your bills and feed your family Laddie?
Still living at home are we? :confused: :s mokin:


http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRoAVe7qRTejti4frtVDLX2gUH-oxbtztPHFdU4yHJF8H6F2Pg1pQ

[Wasted Talent]

F1 is 100% driver 0 % percent car since the car won't move without a driver... But seriously, maybe Senna deserves a shot, Hispania were so awful last year that it's pretty hard to make conclusions based on that even if some of his teammates were quicker than him.

Have you seen how fast a driver goes without a car?? ;) ;) ;)

WT

[jas123f1]

jas, you need to correct your signature - Kimi has already won his first rally:
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/19/straight-to-the-finnish-line-kimi-raikkonen-wins-his-first-rall/
You are waiting for a WRC win, I guess :)

Sure, I'm waiting for his first win in WRC Rally - but thanks anyway :)

[Bullet]

So it's 100% driver and 100% car then. :D Because 50% - 50% would just be ridiculous. How fast can half a car, and half a driver go? :eek:

[Bullet]

Have you seen how fast a driver goes without a car?? ;) ;) ;)

WT

So it's 100% driver and 100% car then. :D Because 50% - 50% would just be ridiculous. How fast can half a car, and half a driver go? :eek:

[gloomyDAY]

I'm surprised so many people want to see Senna race.

Rather see one of the ol' timers take the steering wheel.

[mstillhere]

Bad news .
It sounds as though we may not see Robert on the grid this year at all .

This will put an end , at least for the next while , to drivers doing any extra-curricular activities that involve more than walking from bare floor to a carpetted section .

He must have been pushing hard , pre-start , to get the feel .
I hope he comes through this with flying colours .

I must confess that I didn't much like him when he came on the scene .
He replaced Jacques , my favourite driver .

But , I have warmed to him over the past couple of seasons as a driver who could get in to mix things up a little , despite not having a car to match the talent .
Now , it looks like he is the one who needs a replacement .

Nephew Senna is not up to the job , but there is a driver available who has loads of experience out there .
He'd fit in nicely , as he knows the team .
They've got his set-ups .
They might even still have one of his seats in the back room somewhere .

The press would be unbelieveable .

Bring back a WDC to replace the driver who replaced him years ago .
Bring Jacques in to replace Robert .

And , Robert , get well soon .

I don't agree. Renault now needs an experienced driver now. The russian driver they have now is going to be useless. Even he was relying on Kubiza in developping the car and now he is in big trouble.

I dare saying Trulli should be going back to Renault. He knows the team already, he has tons of experience and given the circumstances he still can show some speed. And that's exactly what Renault needs.

[keysersoze]

I don't agree. Renault now needs an experienced driver now. The russian driver they have now is going to be useless. Even he was relying on Kubiza in developping the car and now he is in big trouble.

Apparently, you haven't heard some well-documented news: Kubica did not help Petrov much, if at all, during the season, and Vitaly had to make do with his own talent and feedback to his engineers. If the cliche is true and you are only as good as your last race, then VP is doing remarkably well--he out-qualified Robert in Abu Dhabi. In the race, he ran in front, but the SC period "invited" the team to split their strategy. Petrov subsequently pitted and was put behind Kubica.

[Bullet]

I'm surprised so many people want to see Senna race.

Rather see one of the ol' timers take the steering wheel.

I'm torn because it's the new talent that we'll one day refer to as ol' timers... but I'm with you, I'd rather see a vet back in the car, particularly JV.

[Roamy]

Jv has the best track record of all the available drivers - what is sooooo hard about this decision ?????

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Jv has the best track record of all the available drivers - what is sooooo hard about this decision ?????

Maybe there are some people left at Renault who remember hearing the same argument in late 2004.

[Julle69]

Here is more speculations:


I don't believe that Kimi will come back to F1 but you never know. There is again possibility for Kimi's management to make big money, so now we will know if Kimi really want to stay in rally as said...

[jens]

The arguments regarding Villeneuve are quite funny, especially when they contain criticism directed at Heidfeld. When Jacques was last racing in F1, it was 2006 and his team-mate was no-one else than Nick. As we remember, Heidfeld was a bit better. The gap wasn't big, JV was having a solid season, but he still got beaten. We can add that in the meantime Villeneuve has never driven an F1 car, while Heidi has had lots of seasons under his belt and kept himself warm in F1 circles. Now tell me, according to which logic now 5 years later that inferior driver would suddenly turn out to be better out of the two, especially as the former has had zero practice at all? The only logic tells me that the gap has only enlarged.


the problem with Heidfeld is tht he is at the tail-end of his career and is very much a known quantity.
He won't win you a race, he won't really podium, He won't be shining in Qualy, but he will bring the car home in a solid 6-12 position.

To me, that is simply not good enough for that Renault seat. Heidefeld is a competent F1 professional, but I'd rather have a younger hungrier guy in there with some racing chops and a winners mentality. I'd even take DiGrassi over Heidfeld TBH

Doesn't make much sense. Heidfeld usually runs quite close to car's potential. Let's say Kubica would finish 3rd in that car in a race, then Heidfeld could be around something like P4. Now compare that to the likes of Senna and Petrov, who would be around P7-P8 in case they didn't crash out. Di Grassi? Bah, he was outraced by Glock most of the season.

--

People want to see "new talent", but forget that Renault already has one such "new talent" - Petrov. How many of those underperforming inexperienced drivers do you need - the whole grid? And the only reason Senna is Renault's reserve and even has a shot at the race drive, is because of his name and the "connection to Lotus". Renault already has recent experience with a driver with a famous name of a multiple world champion (Piquet Jr).


But seriously, maybe Senna deserves a shot, Hispania were so awful last year that it's pretty hard to make conclusions based on that even if some of his teammates were quicker than him.

Er... shouldn't the quicker team-mates get a chance before him then?

Such arguments could be made about any driver. Maybe Baumgartner deserves a shot in a good team too. Okay, Bruni was quicker than him, but the car was too bad and he didn't get a proper chance.

[foxystoat]

The arguments regarding Villeneuve are quite funny, especially when they contain criticism directed at Heidfeld. When Jacques was last racing in F1, it was 2006 and his team-mate was no-one else than Nick. As we remember, Heidfeld was a bit better. The gap wasn't big, JV was having a solid season, but he still got beaten. We can add that in the meantime Villeneuve has never driven an F1 car, while Heidi has had lots of seasons under his belt and kept himself warm in F1 circles. Now tell me, according to which logic now 5 years later that inferior driver would suddenly turn out to be better out of the two, especially as the former has had zero practice at all? The only logic tells me that the gap has only enlarged.



Doesn't make much sense. Heidfeld usually runs quite close to car's potential. Let's say Kubica would finish 3rd in that car in a race, then Heidfeld could be around something like P4. Now compare that to the likes of Senna and Petrov, who would be around P7-P8 in case they didn't crash out. Di Grassi? Bah, he was outraced by Glock most of the season.

--

People want to see "new talent", but forget that Renault already has one such "new talent" - Petrov. How many of those underperforming inexperienced drivers do you need - the whole grid? And the only reason Senna is Renault's reserve and even has a shot at the race drive, is because of his name and the "connection to Lotus". Renault already has recent experience with a driver with a famous name of a multiple world champion (Piquet Jr).



Er... shouldn't the quicker team-mates get a chance before him then?

Such arguments could be made about any driver. Maybe Baumgartner deserves a shot in a good team too. Okay, Bruni was quicker than him, but the car was too bad and he didn't get a proper chance.

Common sense at last ! I agree with virtually all of the above post.

[DexDexter]

The arguments regarding Villeneuve are quite funny, especially when they contain criticism directed at Heidfeld. When Jacques was last racing in F1, it was 2006 and his team-mate was no-one else than Nick. As we remember, Heidfeld was a bit better. The gap wasn't big, JV was having a solid season, but he still got beaten. We can add that in the meantime Villeneuve has never driven an F1 car, while Heidi has had lots of seasons under his belt and kept himself warm in F1 circles. Now tell me, according to which logic now 5 years later that inferior driver would suddenly turn out to be better out of the two, especially as the former has had zero practice at all? The only logic tells me that the gap has only enlarged.



People who think Villeneuve should get the seat are so out of the reality of modern F1 that their postings should be ignored, not commented on. :rolleyes:

[SGWilko]

Have you seen how fast a driver goes without a car?? ;) ;) ;)

WT

A lot faster than a car without a driver........ :p

[SGWilko]

Having considered the predicament the team formerly known as Renault find themselves in, and nice and cuddly though Eric Boullier's stance on allowing Robert to participate in rallying may be, they have shot themselves quite royally in the foot.

The car will no doubt have been designed with Robert in mind, the sponsors - Lotus, Lada, Proton et al were expecting a better year that 2010.

Now, they look confined to midfield at best.

You don't want to curtail your drivers to the nth degree, but seriously, allowing the participation in such a potentially dangerous activity so close to the season start, and especially during crucial limited testing days seems to me a little foolhardy.

What say folks?

[SGWilko]

People who think Villeneuve should get the seat are so out of the reality of modern F1 that their postings should be ignored, not commented on. :rolleyes:

Indeed, in fact, why not ask Berger or Alesi or Herbert or Coulthard or Hill or Ralf.

OK, sorry, Ralf was just a joke........ ;)

[Dave B]

Indeed, in fact, why not ask Berger or Alesi or Herbert or Coulthard or Hill or Ralf.

OK, sorry, Ralf was just a joke........ ;)

What's Mansell up to these days? :p

[pino]

IMHO Heidfield would be the most logical and smart choice ;)

[SGWilko]

What's Mansell up to these days? :p

Driving his wife's Micra, if the MoneySupermarket ads are to be believed.... :laugh:

[Koz]

What's Mansell up to these days? :p

No! There can and will be no talk of a Mansell return unless he grows back his 'stash!

[SGWilko]

No! There can and will be no talk of a Mansell return unless he grows back his 'stash!

Stash? Is he cultivating that marijhuana stuff nowadays then??????? :laugh:

[Koz]

Stash? Is he cultivating that marijhuana stuff nowadays then??????? :laugh:

Wait, what? His mustache was actually marijuana growing on his face??? :eek:

[ArrowsFA1]

What's Mansell up to these days? :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZG_wN9G3uo

[Tazio]

Having considered the predicament the team formerly known as Renault find themselves in, and nice and cuddly though Eric Boullier's stance on allowing Robert to participate in rallying may be, they have shot themselves quite royally in the foot.

The car will no doubt have been designed with Robert in mind, the sponsors - Lotus, Lada, Proton et al were expecting a better year that 2010.

Now, they look confined to midfield at best.

You don't want to curtail your drivers to the nth degree, but seriously, allowing the participation in such a potentially dangerous activity so close to the season start, and especially during crucial limited testing days seems to me a little foolhardy.

What say folks?I agree about the Rally participation part. I'm curious; do most drivers have claus' in their contracts, forbidding them from undertaking activities that are considered extremely dangerous?
For instance what if "The Boss" decided he wanted to dive off the cliffs in Acapulpo :p :
(Just kidding I meant Acapulco). If he clocked himself, and was unable to race for a season, do you think he would forfeit that portion of pay from his contract?
I bet if Flavio was his agent he would not!
Just kidding about the Flavio part.......... :s mokin:
Later!

[gm99]

Here is more speculations:


I don't believe that Kimi will come back to F1 but you never know. There is again possibility for Kimi's management to make big money, so now we will know if Kimi really want to stay in rally as said...

While I don't see Kimi driving for Renault, there's one szenario I could imagine:

Kimi gets the Red Bull Racing seat alongside Vettel, thus keeping his Red Bull sponsorship.

RBR lend Webber, who they are not entirely happy with anyway, to their engine-supplier Renault.

That would give Renault the best available driver, Webber a number-one-drive in a competitive team, RBR a driver unlikely to complain about his team-mate being given preference (and an excellent marketing tool - vodka Red Bull anyone?) and Kimi a chance to get back to F1 without severing the ties with Red Bull.

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is ;)

[SGWilko]

I agree about the Rally participation part. I'm curious; do most drivers have claus' in their contracts, forbidding them from undertaking activities that are considered extremely dangerous?
For instance what if "The Boss" decided he wanted to dive off the cliffs in Acapulpo :p :
(Just kidding I meant Acapulco). If he clocked himself, and was unable to race for a season, do you think he would forfeit that portion of pay from his contract?
I bet if Flavio was his agent he would not!
Just kidding about the Flavio part.......... :s mokin:
Later!

Some certainly do. Point is, if you invest a lot of money in a driver, and then even more money to insure them, it would surely make sense to ensure your premiums are kept down by limiting the exposure to dangerous sports. Of course, you could just as easily get mowed down by a bus when crossing the road...........

[Tazio]

Some certainly do. Point is, if you invest a lot of money in a driver, and then even more money to insure them, it would surely make sense to ensure your premiums are kept down by limiting the exposure to dangerous sports. Of course, you could just as easily get mowed down by a bus when crossing the road...........Yes but we know the distinction between performing acts of Daring-do, and being involved in an accident that was in no way of your own making. I'm not addressing the eventuality of the guy being "muerto"
In the case of the bus accident there would be a lawsuit against the second party.

All:
God save your majesty!


Cade:
I thank you, good people—there shall be no money; all shall eat
and drink on my score, and I will apparel them all in one livery,
that they may agree like brothers, and worship me their lord.


Dick:
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.

Cade:
Nay, that I mean to do.


Henry The Sixth, Part 2 Act 4, scene 2, 71–78

[BDunnell]

You don't want to curtail your drivers to the nth degree, but seriously, allowing the participation in such a potentially dangerous activity so close to the season start, and especially during crucial limited testing days seems to me a little foolhardy.

What say folks?

In what sense is participating in a rally any more dangerous than participating in an F1 test, or going skiing, or any number of other pre-season activities that drivers indulge in?

[Sonic]

In what sense is participating in a rally any more dangerous than participating in an F1 test, or going skiing, or any number of other pre-season activities that drivers indulge in?

....or riding a mountain bike.

I say bravo to Renault (or perhaps Robert and his management) for insisting he be allowed to compete in other sports. He's not a child. He knew the risks. End of story.

[RS]

Boullier says the options are Senna, Liuzzi, Heidfeld. If those are the options, then I can't see a reason to choose the other two over Heidfeld. He is the one with the most experience and probably the most speed.

[SGWilko]

In what sense is participating in a rally any more dangerous than participating in an F1 test, or going skiing, or any number of other pre-season activities that drivers indulge in?

Well, to begin with the medical facilities that are provided during tests coupled with the safety track record of modern F1 cars..............

Bear in mind Robert 'lost a lot of blood' and was 'trapped in the car' for some time...............................

Also, did you notice the steep drop to the side of the road on the video posted earlier........

Sadly, Roberts accident, although freak, need not have happened.

[BDunnell]

Well, to begin with the medical facilities that are provided during tests coupled with the safety track record of modern F1 cars..............

Bear in mind Robert 'lost a lot of blood' and was 'trapped in the car' for some time...............................

Also, did you notice the steep drop to the side of the road on the video posted earlier........

Sadly, Roberts accident, although freak, need not have happened.

The issue of the crashworthiness of S2000 rally cars — and I am, as I said in another thread, very surprised indeed that it should have been possible for the barrier to pierce the car as it did — is an entirely separate matter from whether or not he should have been allowed to compete at all. There is no need at all, other than perhaps financially, to prevent F1 drivers from undertaking such 'extra-curricular' activities. Would you seek to prevent them from skiing, for example? How would one measure the potential danger of one activity compared to another? I am delighted that Renault never stopped Kubica from rallying, and think all teams should adopt the same approach.

[SGWilko]

Would you seek to prevent them from skiing, for example?

How long, on average, do broken limbs take to heal? I'd suggest a clause in a drivers contract, vis a vis skiing, that prevents participation within 2 months of the start or during an F1 season. Thus allowing for participation in such activities, but not so that their main employment - F1 - is jeopardised should injury occur.

Personally, given the sums invested in drivers, I'd say that was common sense, and moreover good business sense?

How much do Lotus/Renault stand to lose in prize money alone due to the loss of Robert for this season?

[maxter]

If the teams want to be inhuman corporate monsters, sure, as long as it's clear when the driver signs the contract. But surely you wouldn't want to force the teams to add such a clause, right..?

Personally I'm delighted Robert was allowed to participate in such an activity; the drivers should still be allowed to live and have some fun even if it is at a certain risk. Sure, money this and money that and it's all very important I'm sure, but I still get a fuzzy feeling whenever there is actually a sense of humanism and good ol' fun involved in such a high profit sport in this day and age.

[BDunnell]

How long, on average, do broken limbs take to heal? I'd suggest a clause in a drivers contract, vis a vis skiing, that prevents participation within 2 months of the start or during an F1 season. Thus allowing for participation in such activities, but not so that their main employment - F1 - is jeopardised should injury occur.

But, as you say, what happened to Kubica was a freak occurrence. It is entirely possible that he could 'just' have broken a limb in the accident, but it turned out rather worse. An even greater probability, if we're looking at this statistically, is that he would have completed the rally unscathed. Sadly, he didn't.

[SGWilko]

But, as you say, what happened to Kubica was a freak occurrence. It is entirely possible that he could 'just' have broken a limb in the accident, but it turned out rather worse. An even greater probability, if we're looking at this statistically, is that he would have completed the rally unscathed. Sadly, he didn't.

But, if he had 'just' have broken a leg, he'd still miss the start of the season and the all important testing. If he'd broken the leg in December, chances are it would have healed.........

So, perhaps don't operate a blanket ban, just a 'sensible window of allowable time to do extra curricular stuff'........

[Dave B]

I'm firmly on the side of letting drivers take risks. Not stupid ones, but taking part in an organised rally seems perfectly sensible. What about Adrian Newey's racing exploits? I seem to remember last year somebody fearing that he was jeapordising Red Bull's championship chances.

Getting behind the wheel helps keep drivers fit and sharp, if that brings a negligable risk then so be it. He could just as easily slipped in the shower.

[BDunnell]

But, if he had 'just' have broken a leg, he'd still miss the start of the season and the all important testing. If he'd broken the leg in December, chances are it would have healed.........

So, perhaps don't operate a blanket ban, just a 'sensible window of allowable time to do extra curricular stuff'........

So you would prohibit any current driver from taking part in the Goodwood Revival, then, if they wanted to (and as Dario Franchitti does)?

[SGWilko]

So you would prohibit any current driver from taking part in the Goodwood Revival, then, if they wanted to (and as Dario Franchitti does)?

I think so, yes, and for the reasons I stipulated before - look where Lotus Renault are right now. As for the Festival of Speed I would allow participation in this but stipulate they not drive the car on the limit for obvious reasons.

Simply because of the limited testing, there is little scope for keeping your reserve driver up to speed with current machinery. I am sure the insurance money will help, but that won't win races.

[BDunnell]

But I don't care where Renault 'are now'. Their driver is injured and needs to be replaced. They probably (surely?) won't do as well in 2011 as a result. Does this concern me? No. These things happen.

[SGWilko]

But I don't care where Renault 'are now'. Their driver is injured and needs to be replaced. They probably (surely?) won't do as well in 2011 as a result. Does this concern me? No. These things happen.

Would it concern you if you were running the team?

[BDunnell]

Would it concern you if you were running the team?

Were I a team owner/boss, I would not prevent any of my drivers from doing anything they want to in the off-season, on the grounds that the statistical probability of something happening is so small as not to merit being 'regulated' against. For years, F1 drivers habitually took part in other forms of motorsport, and I would very much like to see that being the case again.

[Roamy]

If the teams want to be inhuman corporate monsters, sure, as long as it's clear when the driver signs the contract. But surely you wouldn't want to force the teams to add such a clause, right..?

Personally I'm delighted Robert was allowed to participate in such an activity; the drivers should still be allowed to live and have some fun even if it is at a certain risk. Sure, money this and money that and it's all very important I'm sure, but I still get a fuzzy feeling whenever there is actually a sense of humanism and good ol' fun involved in such a high profit sport in this day and age.


Are you kidding me - I am paying a driver 10 million per year and have no contract to regulate his activities - Not something I would do as a team owner. So now I have to find another driver. Do I still pay Robert? Say I pick Hulk and I think he is better - do I get to cut Robert when he heals. F1 is a big dollar sport and living you life is making it and getting paid huge amounts of money. Robert has shown arrogance and disrespect for the team who is paying him a ton of money.

[DexDexter]

Boullier says the options are Senna, Liuzzi, Heidfeld. If those are the options, then I can't see a reason to choose the other two over Heidfeld. He is the one with the most experience and probably the most speed.

I don't know, Renault is not a factory team any more and lately their decisions have been business (money) driven so there could be a situation where Brazilian sponsors help Senna to get the drive. Senna in black and gold Lotus...

[BDunnell]

Are you kidding me - I am paying a driver 10 million per year and have no contract to regulate his activities - Not something I would do as a team owner. So now I have to find another driver. Do I still pay Robert? Say I pick Hulk and I think he is better - do I get to cut Robert when he heals. F1 is a big dollar sport and living you life is making it and getting paid huge amounts of money. Robert has shown arrogance and disrespect for the team who is paying him a ton of money.

No, he hasn't. The team was fully aware of what he was doing. They could have prevented him from rallying, but they chose not to, quite rightly.

[big_sw2000]

So would you stop Webber riding his Mountain bike.

[Bagwan]

Calculate the potential risk vs potential gain .

The gains:
Some of these guys are addicts , and need to race . Denying this is folly , as they feel hemmed in , and become unhappy , waiting .
And , even though this is a completely different discipline , it certainly keeps the car control reflexes sharp , which is important , off season .
The possibility that they do well in another racing series only can add to the press that the team receives already , just from the actual entry .

But , somehow , Renault has forgotten that , to mitigate the risk that one takes , it is often wise to have a solid back-up plan in waiting .

The risk:
It is what happened to Robert .

They may be in luck , though .
Jacques should take his place , and by the time Robert comes back they will have realized they don't need Petrov's cash .

[Bagwan]

Are you kidding me - I am paying a driver 10 million per year and have no contract to regulate his activities - Not something I would do as a team owner. So now I have to find another driver. Do I still pay Robert? Say I pick Hulk and I think he is better - do I get to cut Robert when he heals. F1 is a big dollar sport and living you life is making it and getting paid huge amounts of money. Robert has shown arrogance and disrespect for the team who is paying him a ton of money.

You're right on that , cowboy , but I would think that if you were going to let someone do these things , you would get something in return for this risk .
Whether you get them for less , or the insurance covers it , you shouldn't out of pocket in the long run .

Fact is , though , if there's no "plan B" , yer screwed .

Unless there happens to be a WDC around , looking for a seat .

[Roamy]

You're right on that , cowboy , but I would think that if you were going to let someone do these things , you would get something in return for this risk .
Whether you get them for less , or the insurance covers it , you shouldn't out of pocket in the long run .

Fact is , though , if there's no "plan B" , yer screwed .

Unless there happens to be a WDC around , looking for a seat .

Yea and they keep digging up Nick who has never won sh!t - But oh no lets not go with a winner. It is ok because the championship will be down to alonso vetted and hamilton and the rest of the teams will be fighting over the scraps and spending themselves broke.

[maxter]

No, he hasn't. The team was fully aware of what he was doing. They could have prevented him from rallying, but they chose not to, quite rightly.
Indeed. It's not like he went behind anybody's back or breached his contract, so I can't see how he would be blamed here.

Whether it was smart or enough of the team to let him rally is another question, though I've already stated my opinion about that as well. That's just a matter of viewpoint and opinion and I have no illusion or want to successfully "convert" anyone, I'll just state once again that I'm happy money doesn't always come first.

Plus, accidents with outcomes even close to this in S2000/equal cars are just so rare nowadays. If the team would have forbidden him to race they might just as well have forbidden him to walk out of his front door.

[Roamy]

Indeed. It's not like he went behind anybody's back or breached his contract, so I can't see how he would be blamed here.

Whether it was smart or enough of the team to let him rally is another question, though I've already stated my opinion about that as well. That's just a matter of viewpoint and opinion and I have no illusion or want to successfully "convert" anyone, I'll just state once again that I'm happy money doesn't always come first.

Plus, accidents with outcomes even close to this in S2000/equal cars are just so rare nowadays. If the team would have forbidden him to race they might just as well have forbidden him to walk out of his front door.

well thank god I am not paying you 10mil to drive. It just shows you the disrespect by the current crop of drivers. And yes probably a handful of them are not competent enough to walk out their front door. So you want all the freedom and all the money too. Well a Pig gets fatter and a Hog gets slaughtered. Ole Kub may never even make it back to F1 and when he does he may be driving for HRT

[BDunnell]

well thank god I am not paying you 10mil to drive. It just shows you the disrespect by the current crop of drivers. And yes probably a handful of them are not competent enough to walk out their front door. So you want all the freedom and all the money too. Well a Pig gets fatter and a Hog gets slaughtered. Ole Kub may never even make it back to F1 and when he does he may be driving for HRT

Please say what's disrespectful about it. His employer knew and was perfectly happy, just as Red Bull, for example, has been perfectly happy for its drivers to fly back-seat in aerobatic displays for publicity purposes. Pretty dangerous, wouldn't you think?

Would you say that Jim Clark was disrespectful to Lotus for wanting to drive in formulae other than F1, carrying with it the risk of injury? Or Mario Andretti, for keeping up a punishing schedule of races for different teams the world over, carrying with it the risk of industry? Or Vic Elford for racing for Cooper in F1 in 1968, when his main employment was with Porsche as a rally and racing driver, carrying with it the risk of injury? By your reckoning, drivers of eras past were far more disrespectful than their counterparts today, who might occasionally compete in other formulae, but hardly ever.

[foxystoat]

I would hope teams would have a clause in there contract saying if you injure yourself doing another dangerous sport then you do not get paid or get a small percentage of your salary until fit to race again. So you can do it if you like but it's your risk physically aswell as financially.
It also seems that it's only Canadians clamouring for a return of JV, you need to get yourself a new younger driver to follow not keep trying to resurrect a career that's well finished in F1. Are there no decent young Canadian drivers ? Heidfeld would beat JV without having to break sweat in fact JV would be a match for Badoer these days. you need to let go !

[BDunnell]

I would hope teams would have a clause in there contract saying if you injure yourself doing another dangerous sport then you do not get paid or get a small percentage of your salary until fit to race again. So you can do it if you like but it's your risk physically aswell as financially.

I doubt this would work in terms of employment law. There is no way such a thing could only be applied to F1 drivers.



It also seems that it's only Canadians clamouring for a return of JV, you need to get yourself a new younger driver to follow not keep trying to resurrect a career that's well finished in F1. Are there no decent young Canadian drivers ? Heidfeld would beat JV without having to break sweat in fact JV would be a match for Badoer these days. you need to let go !

I agree with you there — it's rather ridiculous. Rather like us Brits constantly going on about how we'd like to see Damon Hill or Coulthard making a comeback.

[maxter]

well thank god I am not paying you 10mil to drive.
Yeah well, Renault was happy to pay RK 10 mil (or whatever) to drive in F1 and still do stuff on the side, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if they actually helped him pay for the rally drive. So, what's the deal, really? That you wouldn't have made the same decision if you were team manager? That's your opinion, it doesn't make RK disrespectful by any means.

We obviously don't share the view on money so that's pretty much a pointless discussion that I won't get deeper into, but I just can't understand how RK would have wronged the team when he obviously had their support.

[Stuartf12007]

And how would you pay your bills and feed your family Laddie?
Still living at home are we? :confused: :s mokin:


http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRoAVe7qRTejti4frtVDLX2gUH-oxbtztPHFdU4yHJF8H6F2Pg1pQ

you should change your name to Dick Head :p

[Malbec]

well thank god I am not paying you 10mil to drive. It just shows you the disrespect by the current crop of drivers. And yes probably a handful of them are not competent enough to walk out their front door. So you want all the freedom and all the money too. Well a Pig gets fatter and a Hog gets slaughtered. Ole Kub may never even make it back to F1 and when he does he may be driving for HRT

You're assuming that the team had no idea Kubica was going to rally and was unable to control it. I don't think that is the case however, and the freedom to pursue risky non-F1 activities (or lack of it) would have been part of his contract.

Some teams are notoriously strict on what their drivers and other key team members are and aren't allowed to do such as McLaren. I know for a fact that one of the key inducements Red Bull offered to Newey involved giving him the option to take key weekends off to allow him to race at club level with McLaren having refused to let him do that. Kimi had to get special dispensation from Ferrari to go rallying when he was still racing for them too. Renault would have signed Kubica on knowing that he wanted to go rallying over winter, they knew what they were doing when they signed him.

There is no disrespect involved if its all done with mutual consent, and that was exactly the case between Renault and Kubica.

[SGWilko]

I would not prevent any of my drivers from doing anything they want to in the off-season

Bingo.

[BDunnell]

Bingo.

Nor, indeed, during the season, I should add.

[SGWilko]

Robert has shown arrogance and disrespect for the team who is paying him a ton of money.

Hold on a sec here! It was with consent from his employer that Robert went rallying. The point I was trying to make, and which Baggy has elaborated on, is that where there is a risk, some mitigation of how that risk might affect you if something happens needs to be factored in.

My viewpoint is - fine, do extreme ironing off a snow capped mountain if you like, - but don't do it any time near the start or during the season, just in case you wake up in a foreign hospital with an ironing board up your Harris......

To me, it's common totty.

[Kevincal]

If anyone is to blame perhaps it be the rally organizers? That road looked far too narrow and dangerous to race on... That armco is designed to stop SLOW moving vehicles from falling off the cliff... Then again I guess most rallies are held on extremely dangerous roads... I do believe the Rally world needs to up their game in the safety department, because it sure seems that they just race whereever they want with little regard to driver and fan safety. Just like in the old F1 days, wrecklessness brings death / serious injury often.

I am sure Robert now regrets rallying, and he would be a smart man to never set foot in a rally car again, it's just too dangerous when you are hardly making any money (rallying) and there are plenty of other safer ways to get an adrenaline rush.

Unfortunately by the sounds of the severity of his injuries, it's highly likely he'll never race F1 again. The whole right side of his body from his foot leg arm hand were severely mangled. So lucky to be alive, just as he was lucky to be alive from that horrific crash in montreal..

I think the main part of the problem with rallying is there are far too many turns to memorize and even if your codriver reads perfect notes, on extremely dangerous narrow roads just an extremely tiny mistake means catastophe, even worse than racing F1 in Monaco. Just how many deaths and serious injuries have their been in rallying around the world since 1994?!

Anyways, I am rambling, I guess what makes the most sense is Heidfeld #1 and Petrov #2. I think it would be cool to see just how well Bruno could do though. I mean hell he has A LOT to live up to and he knows it. At HRT I think he simply lacked the passion to push the limits because the car was a joke, slower than even GP2 cars!!!! But it is true that Heidfeld is a supremely solid driver and just maybe he could get his first F1 win and who knows really, maybe make a big impact.

Very sad for Robert but also very much looking forward to this F1 season. :) Can't wait to see Robert in the paddock watching the races, cus I know he is a big fan of racing even when he is not racing, I wonder which race that will be? :) Maybe most imporantly for Roberts state of mind is that his codriver came away unscathed. That must bring so much relief to him. Man it takes some huge balls to be a rally codriver just sitting there at the mercy of the driver.

Oh one more thing, would be very interesting to know about the other teams and their driver contracts and what they will let their drivers do and not do. Surely a rally such as this would be off limits for the Ferrari and McLaren guys? I know they do some skiing but it's only for marketing (right?) and I believe they just go on a very easy slope and ski slowly?

[Mia 01]

If Renualt cant develop th car over the season, and I can´t see two rookie drivers do this, then they will sink to the lower midfield. This will mean little money from Bernie and less or nothing from the spónsors next year. Renulat are in despair right now.

[maxter]

"The first one driving will at the moment be our first test driver," Boullier was quoted as saying by IVG.it. "In the meantime, we will look for Kubica's substitute: the names considered are Senna, Liuzzi and Heidfeld.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89342

[Tazio]

you should change your name to Dick Head :p

Whatever Scro? :p :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0O7_3o3BrI&playnext=1&list=PLFA9CC89FC1DA80F1

Later Dukie :wave: :s mokin:

[mstillhere]

Apparently, you haven't heard some well-documented news: Kubica did not help Petrov much, if at all, during the season, and Vitaly had to make do with his own talent and feedback to his engineers. If the cliche is true and you are only as good as your last race, then VP is doing remarkably well--he out-qualified Robert in Abu Dhabi. In the race, he ran in front, but the SC period "invited" the team to split their strategy. Petrov subsequently pitted and was put behind Kubica.

So, if VP is such a good driver how come Renault had strong doubts about him and hired him a the very last minute and with conditions? I guess because the Renault crew know less than you, right?

How come VP was complaining about how RK was not sharing anything with him? And what makes him such a good driver all of the sudden? The last race last year for parking his car in front of FA?

The dude has a whole a lot to learn especially because this car is not the car he drove last year and Renault needs someone with a lot of experience. And in fact, if last year they had hired an experienced driver rather than him, right Renault would wonder who is going to develop the car this year. And no, Petrov cannot do it.

[mstillhere]

Jv has the best track record of all the available drivers - what is sooooo hard about this decision ?????

Well, as much as I like hime he might be just a little out of touch. They need a vet who is still in the loop.

[Roamy]

well ok I will go with what you guys are saying - If he had permission then Renault is dumber than I can imagine. Again I may be wrong but I don't think "the old man" would have put up with any of this sh!t and further more I think it make renault look pretty stupid. They think Robert has the talent to win a WDC and they let him throw it away on a freaking rally car. So I guess I am calling Eric a dumb ass, and Robert should know better especially if he is managed by Flavio

[Roamy]

Well, as much as I like hime he might be just a little out of touch. They need a vet who is still in the loop.

The need a vet with a winning track record.. I figure JV would be as good as MS and I would suspect this forum will think MS is better that Nick

[Tumbo]

If anyone is to blame perhaps it be the rally organizers? That road looked far too narrow and dangerous to race on... That armco is designed to stop SLOW moving vehicles from falling off the cliff... Then again I guess most rallies are held on extremely dangerous roads... I do believe the Rally world needs to up their game in the safety department, because it sure seems that they just race whereever they want with little regard to driver and fan safety. Just like in the old F1 days, wrecklessness brings death / serious injury often.


Rallying has taken significant steps forward in recent yrs and obviously care about driver and spectator safety - clearly you have little understanding of the sport and where it was at previously when competitors severely injuring themselves was common place. The last significant loss of life on a wrc event was Michael Park when Martin crashed in the 2005 Rally of GB. But hey i'm not going to feed the trolls.

How many people who sit here now w/ 20:20 hindsight were complaining this vocally when it was announced RK was going to enter this rally? Or any of the previous rallies he has competed in over the last 24mths?

[foxystoat]

The need a vet with a winning track record.. I figure JV would be as good as MS and I would suspect this forum will think MS is better that Nick

On that basis then I figure they need Damon Hill as he has a winning track record & would be as good as JV who according to you would be as good as MS.
Forget Villeneuve he would be a roundabout get with the times & as the Renault boss has pointed out it's between Heidfeld,Senna & Liuzzi I bet they never gave JV a second thought.
Coulthard would make more sense than JV as he is not so long out the car & no one is wanting him back & he has a winning track record.Or how about Alesi ,Herbert ?
For me out of the 3 in the frame it has to be Heidfeld.

[SGWilko]

The last race last year for parking his car in front of FA?.

What? He was racing and you expect him to let the guy behind through? Ever heard of competition. I rather suspect the fact is that FA could not get by due the characteristics of the track, and the different strengths/weaknesses of the Ferrari compared to the Renault.

[CNR]

http://www.f1.co.uk/read-news/1146/raikkonen-free-to-pull-out-of-wrc-to-go-back-to-f1/
Kimi Raikkonen is free to pull out of his 2011 World Rally Championship contract and return to F1 if he wants too.

[DexDexter]

The need a vet with a winning track record.. I figure JV would be as good as MS and I would suspect this forum will think MS is better that Nick

This is the funniest post for a while. :D

[Sleeper]

I see the Fun Police have been out in force recently. I cant believe people are even suggesting that drivers shouldnt be aloud to drive fast at Goodwood, complete nonsense. Almost as pathetic as the calls to hire JV, who was mediocer in 2006 for BMWSauber, and the last time he drove a car that was anywhere near F1 level was the Peugeot 908 in 2008, and he was the slowest of Pugs 9 drivers (which included Zonta, Klien, Wurze, Montagny, Bourdais and Sarrazin, all ex F1 drivers who would be a better bet today than JV).

[Retro Formula 1]

I hope they encourage Kimi to return but he seems quite happy with Rally at the moment. Mind you, a Team where nobody expects and a Team mate that's a walk over is not a bad platform for a return.

Of the other 3, Nick is safe but boring, Toni a gamble and Senna will make Petrov look good.

Renault have no plan B at the moment that makes sense. They need Kimi.

As for JV, get real.

[Retro Formula 1]

I see the Fun Police have been out in force recently.

And we can also ban on safety grounds the RoC, using Paddock Bikes, visiting the Gym, sexual positions other than woman on top and no drinkies incase they become Alcholics. In fact, no food either in case of food poisoning.

What do you think. That should maintain them at the peak for driving a F1 car.

[SGWilko]

And we can also ban on safety grounds the RoC.

Why, that's in the off season as far as F1 is concerned isn't it?. If drivers were not an expensive commodity as in pre-60's, then let them do what they want, but when you pay them gazillions, and have no credible plan B to placate the money your sponsors are putting up should your No1 driver get injured, then you can see the rationale..........

[SGWilko]

What do you think. That should maintain them at the peak for driving a F1 car.

Also, the amount of fitness routines, weights hung from the neck, simulators etc drivers in the 21st century are more prepared than they ever were by tearing around in a Lotus Cortina or shagging endless grid girls with an orange in yer gob and a french fry up each nostril......... ;)

[I am evil Homer]

I see the Fun Police have been out in force recently. I cant believe people are even suggesting that drivers shouldnt be aloud to drive fast at Goodwood, complete nonsense. Almost as pathetic as the calls to hire JV, who was mediocer in 2006 for BMWSauber, and the last time he drove a car that was anywhere near F1 level was the Peugeot 908 in 2008, and he was the slowest of Pugs 9 drivers (which included Zonta, Klien, Wurze, Montagny, Bourdais and Sarrazin, all ex F1 drivers who would be a better bet today than JV).

This needs quoting for the truth...JV has nothing to suggest he's worthy of an F1 seat, let alone one with a decent team. I applaud the Canucks for their loyalty but it's time to remove those rose tinted specs and admit that JV is just yesterday's man.

[Dave B]

I hope they encourage Kimi to return but he seems quite happy with Rally at the moment. Mind you, a Team where nobody expects and a Team mate that's a walk over is not a bad platform for a return.

Massive gamble for Kimi, though. If he came back and was beaten by Petrov his reputation would be massively dented, if not destroyed. Don't laugh: most of us thought that Schumacher would make mincemeat of Rosberg and look how that ended.

It'll be Senna for the first few races, then likely Heidfeld. No-brainer.


As for JV, get real.
I almost wish someone would employ him just so we can get this over with. Every year there's a rumour linking him to some team or other (last year it was even a non-existent make-believe team) with a handful of fantastists claiming he'd blow the opposition away - forgetting how utterly embarrassing he was on his last comeback in 2004, what was it, two P10s and a P11?

Go on Eric, stick the old boy in your Renault so we can all have a laugh! :D

[Roamy]

Go on Eric, stick the old boy in your Renault so we can all have a laugh! :D

well i think we should have equal opportunity laughs - We have MS back why not JV then we can all laugh together.

I am thinking Kimi will get the seat and if he does well Robert will not make it back

[Bagwan]

Massive gamble for Kimi, though. If he came back and was beaten by Petrov his reputation would be massively dented, if not destroyed. Don't laugh: most of us thought that Schumacher would make mincemeat of Rosberg and look how that ended.

It'll be Senna for the first few races, then likely Heidfeld. No-brainer.


I almost wish someone would employ him just so we can get this over with. Every year there's a rumour linking him to some team or other (last year it was even a non-existent make-believe team) with a handful of fantastists claiming he'd blow the opposition away - forgetting how utterly embarrassing he was on his last comeback in 2004, what was it, two P10s and a P11?

Go on Eric, stick the old boy in your Renault so we can all have a laugh! :D

So , don't laugh about Vitaly beating Kimi ?
Yeah , right , Dave .

I don't think Kimi would be all that worried about it .

Michael is getting up to speed now , and a guy who's younger , and has beaten him before , is ready to go .

At least you call me a "fantastist" , instead of a fanatic . That must mean you really are chuffed with it , as it sounds like I am a follower of a great idea .

So , you're right .
Go on , Eric , stick Jacques in your car .

What have you got to lose ?

Of course , only do it if you want a big budget , and lots of press lines , the backing of North America , and a hungry WDC driving on a performance based contract.

[ArrowsFA1]

I hope they encourage Kimi to return...They need Kimi.
But why? Kimi's lack of commitment/interest has been evident at times, as has his blinding, speed but it's up to him which you get.

Kimi's 'go/do things his own way' attitude is all fine and admirable if things are working well, but if they're not he does not have the ability or apparently interest in working with the team to turn things around. That's great if you can afford to be like that (and Kimi most certainly can on his earnings) but I don't see him being the kind of driver a team will unite around in the kind of circumstances we're seeing at Renault.

[JRodrigues]

Kimi's 'go/do things his own way' attitude is all fine and admirable if things are working well, but if they're not he does not have the ability or apparently interest in working with the team to turn things around. That's

Yeah right.. Just like we saw in the 2009 season!

[DexDexter]

But why? Kimi's lack of commitment/interest has been evident at times, as has his blinding, speed but it's up to him which you get.

Kimi's 'go/do things his own way' attitude is all fine and admirable if things are working well, but if they're not he does not have the ability or apparently interest in working with the team to turn things around. That's great if you can afford to be like that (and Kimi most certainly can on his earnings) but I don't see him being the kind of driver a team will unite around in the kind of circumstances we're seeing at Renault.

That's the impression people have which is based on his years at Ferrari, but one has to remember that much of the lazy, uninterested stuff originates from either the Italian or Spanish press or from people who do not understand him. I'd say the truth about Kimi's laziness is still out there.

I don't think Kimi is interested in driving for Renault, it's a midfield team with a limited budget and one paydriver. Not something that will persuade a WDC to come out of retirement. Many people seem to fancy the idea, though.

[Bagwan]

Lopez says :
"There are drivers who have had good races, for example Nick Heidfeld. We all know that Nick is rather good, but we don't know what level he is in now, we don't know how he does with our car. Same goes for Vitantonio Liuzzi, same goes - I don't know for Bruno Senna, who last year was in a team with a car that could do nothing."
The Spanish press has PDLR as having been contacted . I don't think he has much chance , but he does have Pirelli experience .
And , Kimi is still rallying , with team ownership , so he seems to be having fun where he is .


If they want experience in the seat , and that's what they've said , they need Jacques .
With only one test in the books , it is square one for anybody .
They know his set-ups , and there's likely still a seat in the back room somewhere .

[jas123f1]

That's the impression people have which is based on his years at Ferrari, but one has to remember that much of the lazy, uninterested stuff originates from either the Italian or Spanish press or from people who do not understand him. I'd say the truth about Kimi's laziness is still out there.

I don't think Kimi is interested in driving for Renault, it's a midfield team with a limited budget and one paydriver. Not something that will persuade a WDC to come out of retirement. Many people seem to fancy the idea, though.

I think Renault need a faster driver than they have at the moment and I can't see so many possibilities. I'm sure it would be difficult get Kimi to Renault, but (maybe?) not impossibly, if Lotus Renault want and do it a right way.. $$$
The car looks fast this year, so why don't give Kimi a chance to test it..

[Roamy]

if they can test a handful of drivers in last years car then that would be the answer

[ArrowsFA1]

If they want experience in the seat , and that's what they've said , they need Jacques .
If Renault don't know what level Heidfeld is after his recent experience in F1 and therefore sound doubtful of signing him then JV has no chance of even being considered.

I'm a fan of Jacques. I loved watching him race and I admired him for taking a punt on BAR but his F1 days are long gone IMHO.

[truefan72]

While I don't see Kimi driving for Renault, there's one szenario I could imagine:

Kimi gets the Red Bull Racing seat alongside Vettel, thus keeping his Red Bull sponsorship.

RBR lend Webber, who they are not entirely happy with anyway, to their engine-supplier Renault.

That would give Renault the best available driver, Webber a number-one-drive in a competitive team, RBR a driver unlikely to complain about his team-mate being given preference (and an excellent marketing tool - vodka Red Bull anyone?) and Kimi a chance to get back to F1 without severing the ties with Red Bull.

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is ;)

Good Sense, Also consider a Massa move if he is so inclined


Boullier says the options are Senna, Liuzzi, Heidfeld. If those are the options, then I can't see a reason to choose the other two over Heidfeld. He is the one with the most experience and probably the most speed.

I think that was said before he knew that Kubica is probably out for the year...and maybe longer.
Better to get a proer driver to fill that seat and score some crucial points than employing a patchwork driver to simply fill that 2nd seat. No Senna, No Heidfeld, maybe Grosjean, but I'd deal for Webber, or Hulkenberg, or even kilen and digrassi.


I hope they encourage Kimi to return but he seems quite happy with Rally at the moment. Mind you, a Team where nobody expects and a Team mate that's a walk over is not a bad platform for a return.

Of the other 3, Nick is safe but boring, Toni a gamble and Senna will make Petrov look good.

Renault have no plan B at the moment that makes sense. They need Kimi.

As for JV, get real.

yep.

I do like JV but I'm not sure he's got any juice left

[Roamy]

Ha look at the losers renault is putting in the car! well I am obviously rooting for alonso so this just means renault will not be a player in the championship.

[maxter]

I'm sure most of you will have seen this before coming here but anyway

Renault to evaluate Heidfeld at Jerez test
Nick Heidfeld is to test for Renault at Jerez this week, as the team starts to evaluate potential replacements for their driver Robert Kubica, who was seriously injured in a rally crash on Sunday. Heidfeld, who boasts over a decade of Formula One experience and competed in five Grands Prix last season for BMW Sauber, will be in action over the weekend
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/2/11730.html

As much as I like the thought of some proper mixing up in the field, with Kimi joining Renault or even RBR like the scenario speculated, I think they'll simply settle for Heidfeld to be honest. Unless Senna blows them away in testing...

[Mark]

Yep, the swap around with Webber to allow Kimi to drive etc is a nice idea but just far too contractually complicated! Heidfeld is a much simpler option and a safe pair of hands. But he's not likely to deliver them the WDC..

[Malbec]

If they want experience in the seat , and that's what they've said , they need Jacques .
With only one test in the books , it is square one for anybody .
They know his set-ups , and there's likely still a seat in the back room somewhere .

Sod Jacques.

Renault need someone hungry for a championship with massive experience, excellent feedback and tremendous pace.

They should be giving Stirling Moss a call! Failing that I hear Jackie Stewart is still available.

[Mark]

They should be giving Stirling Moss a call! Failing that I hear Jackie Stewart is still available.

I'll be Stirling or Jackie could give some of the young guys a run for their money! Although perhaps only over one lap...

[Robinho]

i'll be intrugued to see what Senna can do in a decent car up against a known quantity such as Heidfield.

[ioan]

I don't get the love Heidfeld gets around here. He's average. Always has been. Always will be.

Better than Kubica 2 times out of 3 seasons. Looks like a good replacement, eh?! :rolleyes:

[ioan]

In my view Heidfeld is clearly the best option among available and interested (Kimi is not interested) drivers and I am surprised, how some can be downplaying him. Actually he is the only driver, who even remotely could step into the big boots left by Kubica and lead the team, which seems close to the top. Nick always manages to collect a good amount of points and this is what the team badly needs. And generally Heidfeld is a really adequate lead driver for an up-and-coming team like for instance Button was for BAR. Or Nick himself was in 2006-07 for BMW.

Others seem already a singificant step backwards. Alas I see Bahar, Lopez and Bouiller giving Bruno Senna the shot. Tying "JPS Lotus" with the name Senna would be too tempting. It can be argued that Bruno has probably more potential than it was evident during HRT days, but at best I'd expect him to turn out to be marginally better than Petrov, which isn't saying much. I actually believe Grosjean has more potential than Senna, but I have to admit he is a risky bet too.

I see more names having been thrown in here. Klien? De la Rosa? Liuzzi? Fisichella? Davidson? None is as good as Heidfeld, but if the situation is tight, they could be considered. Mainly for their experience (which the team seems to be seriously lacking at the moment) and also as a benchmark for Petrov.

Hülkenberg is a gamble too, he got a serious beating by Barrichello last year. But I think he could be more ready to produce results from the get-go than any of Renault's reserves. Still, I don't see him getting released from Force India's contract. And if people here are already talking about contracted drivers, Glock sounds like a decent option to me (Virgin's contract shouldn't be that expensive to buy out either) for damage limitation.

What seems important in all of this, is that the replacement driver seems to be needed for at least the whole season. If it was for a couple of races, you may expect someone like Heidfeld not to be too interested to be a seat-warmer for Kubica without having the opportunity to fully settle in and have a season-long impact. And the team could afford a rookie to flop (two bad races from the team don't ruin the whole season). But an experienced driver seems now vital in the long-run. Because if a rookie flops, it will be even more complicated to make a mid-season change due to in-season testing ban.

Excellent analysis. :up:

[ioan]

I figure JV would be as good as MS ...

:rotflmao: In his, or your, wet dreams cowboy! :rotflmao:

[Roamy]

:rotflmao: In his, or your, wet dreams cowboy! :rotflmao:

Well send me a picture of your girlfriend and maybe I can muster up a wet dream for you. Short of that it is no dream your manidol is getting
beat like a red headed stepson.

[Dave B]

As expected, it's Heidfeld... if he's quick enough.


Renault will sign Nick Heidfeld as Robert Kubica's replacement if the German impresses the team enough in testing at Jerez this weekend.

...

Boullier also categorically ruled out the chances of Kimi Raikkonen or Nico Hulkenberg being given the drive, due to the Finn's rally commitments, and the young German's lack of experience.

Full story: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89386

[ioan]

Well send me a picture of your girlfriend ...

Looks like you're having wet dreams again! :rotflmao:

[ioan]

As expected, it's Heidfeld... if he's quick enough.


Full story: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89386

A sensible approach by Lotus Renault. They can not afford to go with two very young drivers.

[ioan]

As expected, it's Heidfeld... if he's quick enough.


Full story: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89386

A sensible approach by Lotus Renault. They can not afford to go with two very young drivers.

[Mia 01]

It will be Nick, Kimi is bizy.

[Koz]

It will be Nick, Kimi is bizy.

Give it till Rally Sweden is over.

[keysersoze]

So, if VP is such a good driver how come Renault had strong doubts about him and hired him a the very last minute and with conditions? I guess because the Renault crew know less than you, right?

How come VP was complaining about how RK was not sharing anything with him? And what makes him such a good driver all of the sudden? The last race last year for parking his car in front of FA?

The dude has a whole a lot to learn especially because this car is not the car he drove last year and Renault needs someone with a lot of experience. And in fact, if last year they had hired an experienced driver rather than him, right Renault would wonder who is going to develop the car this year. And no, Petrov cannot do it.

There's no need to get all pissy just because I proved you wrong. The rest of your rant was worthless and I'm frankly uninspired to say anything about it. :rolleyes:

I said on page 2 of this thread that they need an experienced driver, and I listed Quick Nick as a viable option. Since it looks like he's in pole position for the seat, it appears the team is feeling what many of us here are feeling.

[mstillhere]

What? He was racing and you expect him to let the guy behind through? Ever heard of competition. I rather suspect the fact is that FA could not get by due the characteristics of the track, and the different strengths/weaknesses of the Ferrari compared to the Renault.

I never said he was supposed to move his car over. But saying that thos guy is such a super driver superior to Kubika simply because of that race seems to be an over reaction. Petrov did what anyone would have done: fight to keep his seat and he succeeded. Koodos to him. However from here to say that he kicked RB but is really an overreaction.

[mstillhere]

So you are all for a driver being experienced enough to develop a car to compete against the opposition and gain WCC points, but you also feel they should give up the chance of gaining points in the last race so that a rival can pass and fight for his own world championship????

Sounds like a massive contradiction there and a point made without a great deal of thought.

No, no no. I am all for a balance. You need a promising younger driver in your team paired with an experienced one. Sorry if my though wasn't too clear.

[mstillhere]

As expected, it's Heidfeld... if he's quick enough.


Full story: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89386

I hope he'll do well. This is most likely his last chance. He always seemed to have the potential to do very well but over the years he has not been able to deliver.

[mstillhere]

There's no need to get all pissy just because I proved you wrong. The rest of your rant was worthless and I'm frankly uninspired to say anything about it. :rolleyes:

I said on page 2 of this thread that they need an experienced driver, and I listed Quick Nick as a viable option. Since it looks like he's in pole position for the seat, it appears the team is feeling what many of us here are feeling.

And how did you prove me wrong? You are the one who said that Petrov was sooooooooooo much better than Kubica. When it's exactly the opposite of what you wrote at least if you asked Renault.

[Roamy]

heidfield will be a total bust! Petrov will be eating caviar when he passes him every race. But look at it this way MS will have someone to play bridge with

[gloomyDAY]

heidfield will be a total bust! Petrov will be eating caviar when he passes him every race. But look at it this way MS will have someone to play bridge withYeah right!

Petrov beating Heidfeld? Not likely. We will see in a very short time anyway, so I'll bookmark this quote.

[Mark]

heidfield will be a total bust! Petrov will be eating caviar when he passes him every race.

Passes him? So you're saying that Heidfeld will out qualify Petrov at every race?

[Sonic]

Passes him? So you're saying that Heidfeld will out qualify Petrov at every race?

;)

[keysersoze]

And how did you prove me wrong? You are the one who said that Petrov was sooooooooooo much better than Kubica. When it's exactly the opposite of what you wrote at least if you asked Renault.

You stated that Vitaly relied on Robert's set-up and I pointed out that according to both drivers, Robert does not help Petrov much at all.

And please point out where I said that VP was better than RK? The most I said was that Petrov was doing "remarkably well." How you extrapolated that Vitaly was superior is your own doing.

[Bagwan]

Heidfeld is a solid guy behind the wheel , but he doesn't inspire the team to get behind him .
He'll finish just about every race , and that's good , but he's better as the number two , grabbing those points when the fast guy goes off .

He's got a few second places , and a lot of experience , but doesn't inspire the fans either .

Quick Nick won't bring in big sponsorship .


The only guy that could inspire the team , and the fans , and the big sponsors is Jacques .

Like the cowboy says , this should be a no-brainer .

[Sleeper]

^I'm sure JV's P24 on the grid at every race would do a lot to inspire the team.

[mstillhere]

You stated that Vitaly relied on Robert's set-up and I pointed out that according to both drivers, Robert does not help Petrov much at all.

And please point out where I said that VP was better than RK? The most I said was that Petrov was doing "remarkably well." How you extrapolated that Vitaly was superior is your own doing.

I am not going back in the post to find what you had posted early. Glad to see we are on the same page.

[Roamy]

Passes him? So you're saying that Heidfeld will out qualify Petrov at every race?

yep

[mstillhere]

Apologies but I thought you were criticizing Petrov for holding Alonso behind him in the last race of last season, and you were insinuating that he should have let him past rather than fighting for position and WCC points. I've quoted you again below:

I'd be interested in an explanation as to what the bolded part means though????
Were you suggesting he showed skill in defending his position or do you think that wasn't an indication of talent in any form?

I think that race was do of die for him. I think that night Renault gave him a car that in real god conditions. The track was nice and dry and Ferrari were not in touch with the reality of the race and that's how barely he kept his seat.

I think Petrov is a skilled driver but so is everyone in F1. The question is, does he have that extra skill that makes a difference between a skilled driver and a world champion. And I think it's way too early to say and that's why I don't agree with who speaks so highly about him in here. I mean the guy is no Hamilton.

[jas123f1]

I think Petrov is a skilled driver but so is everyone in F1. The question is, does he have that extra skill that makes a difference between a skilled driver and a world champion. And I think it's way too early to say and that's why I don't agree with who speaks so highly about him in here. I mean the guy is no Hamilton.

Agreed, and if Heidfeld doesn't beat him then Renault has problem. I think just now the car is more fitted to Kubica and who els will be his replacement has to develop it to be something it wasn't intended to be from beginning. The question is if Petrov is the man to do it or if it will be more experienced Heidfeld and how the car then fit to Kubica if he will come back under the season.. Petrov has learned to drive "Kubicas car" and the other question is what happen now - especially if Heidfeld and he like to develop the car in different directions. I think it doesn't be easier with Pirelli and therefore Heidfeld has a better chance.. :)

[ioan]

And will also convince the sponsors! :D

Renault know exactly what Villeneuve had to offer back in the day, no way would they even consider him even as replacement number 101.

[Roamy]

yes it is confirmed Nick Barrichello named replacement driver for Renault

[Robinho]

after todays testing, short of a miracle performance tomorrow by Bruno Senna, Heidfield has the seat sewn up.

JV was never a serious contender for this seat, and never will be again for a seat in F1. He was very good in his day, and is far from past it, but has been out of F1 for way too long, and was not really quick enough last time. If he really inspired fans, sponsors and teams that much he would never have lost a drive.

The cars a very different in performance, tyres, downforce from when he last drove. add in KERS and movable wings and he's basically a rookie again. never gonna happen people.

now, i don't rate Heidfield THAT highly, but he is quick, he is a current driver and he has good experience. He is a known quantity, and short of Kimi, probably the best non-contracted option available. if the Renault is as quick as it seems he could end up with a few wins and maybe, just maybe, be in the title fight, for a while at least. i don't think there is anyone else available at the moment i could say that about, yet i still want to see Senna given a chance. i still wonder if he might be pretty good too, just a hunch, but maybe

[ioan]

JV was never a serious contender for this seat, and never will be again for a seat in F1. He was very good in his day, and is far from past it,...

Yep, far from past it but on the slower side of it.

[maxter]

after todays testing, short of a miracle performance tomorrow by Bruno Senna, Heidfield has the seat sewn up.

Boullier:

So we need a driver with speed and experience to clearly help the team in this development. Once you have ticked all the boxes there are no more than three drivers in the paddock - Nick Heidfeld, Vitantonio Liuzzi and Pedro de la Rosa.

Nick is here - and without sounding arrogant - to be evaluated. Once we have finished the assessment of Nick we will keep him or look for another driver in Barcelona.
http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2011/2/11735.html

It doesn't seem as if Senna is a real candidate for the actual seat at all according to this; even if he would blow everyone away tomorrow I'd say Renault still values a more experienced driver higher. Heidfeld should have this one in the bag.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Heidfeld is the most underrated guy out there. How many teammates have soundly beat him?

[mstillhere]

Heidfeld is the most underrated guy out there. How many teammates have soundly beat him?

Well, he has the chance now to show what he is made out of. Chances like this one don't come along that often. Let's what happens.

[foxystoat]

You don't stay in F1 for as long as Heidfeld has with little or no sponsorship money without being a very good driver.Good luck to him at Renault I say.

[F1boat]

Lfmao

[F1boat]

Good luck to Heidfeld!

[DexDexter]

Heidfeld deserves his chance, hope he gets the drive.

[ShiftingGears]

I am interested to know what will happen if Heidfeld is in contention for the WDC when Kubica has fully recovered from his injury, assuming he fully recovers well before the end of the season. It would be completely foolish to drop Heidfeld in such a situation, but if Petrov underperforms, and Renault have a sniff of the WCC, it will be interesting to see how they play their cards.

[jas123f1]

Good drive of Quick Nick, I think he has the seat now..
Hopefully he will keep the same sharpness in future.. the car looks fast :)

[Tazio]

I doubt this would work in terms of employment law. There is no way such a thing could only be applied to F1 drivers.
Pardon my ignorance, but are these laws you are referring to based on something mandated buy the EU. In the USA It is common practice to have heavily incentive laden contracts, including how many games a player competes in, even if the player is unable to compete because of an injury that happens, or is exacerbated while playing the sport he is contracted to play. Although most of the incentive are for achieving levels of production, and success, it is not uncommon for a player, especially older ones in Base Ball and more specifically Pitchers that have had arm problems in the past, and also ones that have a history of being injury prone to have a relatively low base salary, at the same time if they excel, and are healthey enough to produce, and paricipate in an amount that is consistant with how often their particular position normally does are rewarded quite handsomely . I realize comparing F1 drivers to stick, and ball professionals is a awkward endeavor, but I would think that since both have contracts negotiated by agents they (at least in the US) can be quite creative, and it's not like the base pay is very low. It is just that the incentive clauses can be quite rewarding. At any rate here is a scenario I would think is legal under contractual agreements in F1, but please correct me if I am wrong. Let's say that RK has a base salary. In his contract he has a certain amount of incentive clause money for every race he finishes in the points. That is the first incentive theshold, next another for finishing no lower than p6. Another larger incentive is earned for each podium, more for race wins, and incentives that would be akin to winning an enormous lottery if he were to win the wdc. These types of clauses are quite common in the states (can't say about Racing contracts) and are usually extremely incentive laden in the contracts of athletes that are near the end of their career. If RK had an incentive laden contract than he would still get paid but he just wouldn't get the money that was contingent on where he finished the race. The base pay should be substantial, as a driver is really not responsible for how competitive the car is.
At any rate here is what "Ole' One Ear" has to say about it FWIW



http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/14022011/23/kubica-unreasonable-claims-lauda.html


It makes no sense for him to put his job and his life at risk like this. Was it unreasonable? Of course it was," Lauda, who was given the last rites following his serious Nurburgring accident in 1976, told SpeedTV, "He has to ensure that he can do his job, and his job is F1. Only he is to blame for what happened to him. Did he have to be doing this? No!"

[Mark]

Only if you are effectively an independent contractor, but F1 drivers are not. They are employed by the team just like any other employee, and so are subject to UK/EU employment law as a result.

[AndyL]

Pardon my ignorance, but are these laws you are referring to based on something mandated buy the EU. In the USA It is common practice to have heavily incentive laden contracts, including how many games a player competes in, even if the player is unable to compete because of an injury that happens, or is exacerbated while playing the sport he is contracted to play.

I think the problem part that BDunnell was probably referring to would be

...if you injure yourself doing another dangerous sport then you do not get paid or get a small percentage of your salary...
(my emphasis)

There wouldn't be a problem paying F1 drivers on a piecework or success-bonus basis (subject to minimum wage laws); in fact most do have large success bonuses as part of their remuneration. But saying that if you're absent, you might or might not get paid depending on the cause of that absence - that could be an unfair contractual term.

If, for example, I was unable to work due to a skiing injury, and my employer refused to pay contractual sick-pay on the basis that I could have chosen not take that risk, their chances of getting away with it would be slim.

Would the same principle apply to F1 drivers? After all, those employed in the UK are covered by the same laws as I am. Well... it's not necessarily that simple. In deciding whether contractual terms are unfair, UK courts will consider the process of negotiating the contract. For most of us there's little opportunity to negotiate the details of our employment contracts - if you want the job you sign the contract. Courts are quite willing to strike out unfair terms in that situation. But an F1 driver's contract, negotiated by the driver's agent, is a much more equal agreement. A term such as the one foxystoat suggested could stand in that situation, as a court might rule that both parties had agreed to it freely.

[Tazio]

I think the problem part that BDunnell was probably referring to would be

(my emphasis)

There wouldn't be a problem paying F1 drivers on a piecework or success-bonus basis (subject to minimum wage laws); in fact most do have large success bonuses as part of their remuneration. But saying that if you're absent, you might or might not get paid depending on the cause of that absence - that could be an unfair contractual term.
If, for example, I was unable to work due to a skiing injury, and my employer refused to pay contractual sick-pay on the basis that I could .have chosen not take that risk, their chances of getting away with it would be slim.

Would the same principle apply to F1 drivers? After all, those employed in the UK are covered by the same laws as I am. Well... it's not necessarily that simple. In deciding whether contractual terms are unfair, UK courts will consider the process of negotiating the contract. For most of us there's little opportunity to negotiate the details of our employment contracts - if you want the job you sign the contract. Courts are quite willing to strike out unfair terms in that situation. But an F1 driver's contract, negotiated by the driver's agent, is a much more equal agreement. A term such as the one foxystoat suggested could stand in that situation, as a court might rule that both parties had agreed to it freely.Andy thanks for your input and I like the simplicity of Mark's answer as well
Just for the record the part of your post that I believe misrepresents what I had suggested I have emboldened in the text of yours I quoted. My suggestion in no way says that RK would not be paid for missing a race as his contract would pay him handsomely for being a diver for the whole season. What I was suggesting was that he merely not receive the extra incentive clause money because whether he raced or not, he did not achieve any of the thesholds for incentive (extra) pay for that race. I just wanted to make that clear, and I'm not sure that you didn't understand it. It may be you were simply addressing Ben’s posture on a different, and much more harsh penalty for not participating.
Cheers

[AndyL]

Andy thanks for your input and I like the simplicity of Mark's answer as well
Just for the record the part of your post that I believe misrepresents what I had suggested I have emboldened in the text of yours I quoted. My suggestion in no way says that RK would not be paid for missing a race as his contract would pay him handsomely for being a diver for the whole season. What I was suggesting was that he merely not receive the extra incentive clause money because whether he raced or not, he did not achieve any of the thesholds for incentive (extra) pay for that race. I just wanted to make that clear, and I'm not sure that you didn't understand it. It may be you were simply addressing Ben’s posture on a different, and much more harsh penalty for not participating.

I guess one of the points I was trying to make was that when BDunnell mentioned employment law, I don't think he was talking about the general idea of performance-based pay - but the specific idea that was mentioned in the post he was replying to (foxystoat's post). That was what I was referring to in the bit of my reply that you highlighted. Apologies for any misunderstanding. I quoted too much of your post, it probably would have been clearer if I'd only quoted the first sentence. I was more trying to expand on what BDunnell had referred to, rather than the examples that you had given.

[Roamy]

i don't see where they have named Nick yet - what is the hold up

[Bagwan]

i don't see where they have named Nick yet - what is the hold up

Maybe JV has been too busy to speak to them .

[Koz]

i don't see where they have named Nick yet - what is the hold up

They were waiting for Kimi to finish Rally Sweden. They might still try and get him!

[Tumbo]

Maybe JV has been too busy to speak to them .

here fishy fishy fishy

one would hope this is fishing given that as an F1 driver JV has shown himself to be a spent force; and w/ Schumacher taking so long to come up to speed how can JV be expected to achieve even points scoring finishes. At least for renault Heidfeld would be a known quantity and having worked w/ RK at BMW-Sauber i'm sure he could quickly adapt to a car built to suit RK's driving style

[Kevincal]

Rubens B posted this on his twitter today..

rubarrichello "guess from who I received a call today??Robert Kubica...tks GOD he is ok ,talking normally...I was so happy... "

[Roamy]

well for all you jv haters he had a fairly brilliant weekend - finishing first in a heat race and second in the main race beating such drivers as Alain Prost. F1 with the ban on testing has seeked to control who drives. I assume Nick will get the nod but for you who don't think JV can drive you simply have your head firmly up your ass

[Roamy]

couple things - the fact is he can drive extremely well. I assume he will probably make it to nascar and do very well. However the point is simple - If MS can still make it in F1 I am confident JV could as well. But with that being said he won't get the opportunity which is a bit of a shame if he could muster a good test result. But now that can't even happen in F1 because of testing rules. It is a known fact that JV didn't kiss the mop's ass or moseley's ass with probably has hurt him in a attempt for a return. As far as being on a different page than you - yes I am because I believe all F1 teams should be able to test whoever they want whenever they want.

[maxter]

I'll quote Boullier again.

Once you have ticked all the boxes there are no more than three drivers in the paddock - Nick Heidfeld, Vitantonio Liuzzi and Pedro de la Rosa.

It won't be anyone else, not JV, not Kimi.

[Bagwan]

well for all you jv haters he had a fairly brilliant weekend - finishing first in a heat race and second in the main race beating such drivers as Alain Prost. F1 with the ban on testing has seeked to control who drives. I assume Nick will get the nod but for you who don't think JV can drive you simply have your head firmly up your ass

May I add that JV entered the series , having never raced on ice , a couple of months ago , and has won against all the regulars with far more experience ?

[Bagwan]

JV and MS are in very different situations IMO. For the last 6 years of JV's F1 career he was struggling to beat his teammates and hardly ended his career at the top of his game like MS. JV has been out of the sport now for 4 and a half seasons as opposed to MS who was on the side lines for only 3. MS never cut his links with F1 and was testing for Ferrari aswell as helping to develop their cars during these years which made his potential for a comeback alot stronger IMO. Would JV have enough knowledge to develop a car that has gone through 4 changes in the regulations since his departure along with vastly different tyres to what he was used to? My answer would be no. If you take his age, his spell away from F1 and the fact his performance was dropping off mid 2006, I think he would be a very unlikely candidate. :)

The regs having changed , in the opinion of Jock Clear , suit JV even more than when he was driving .
And the tires are something "vastly different" that everyone must get used to dealing with .
His spell away from F1 has been filled with many racing categories , all of which had him impressing greatly , those who are regulars to the series' .

[ArrowsFA1]

What is it about the initials JV and F1 :confused:

It used to be that there were those who insisted that Jos Verstappen would soon be back in F1, and when the prediction never materialised there would always be another return right around the corner if we'd all just wait.

Now, there's another JV who, were are told, could be back this time.

It didn't happen for Jos and I can't see it happening for Jacques.

[maxter]

If won't happen so it's quite irrelevant for the topic. Maybe a new one for discussing potential/wanted F1 returns in general would be better and less confusing.

[Dave B]

The regs having changed , in the opinion of Jock Clear , suit JV even more than when he was driving .

Yet again I have to correct you on this point: Jock said that Jacques "would enjoy" driving the current cars, that was all. I'd enjoy playing at Wembley, doesn't mean I'd be any good at it.

[Bagwan]

"Would enjoy" implies that he didn't enjoy the cars when he was driving .
That he "would enjoy" the new formula , implies that he would do better , Dave .

Maybe you'd be better suited to Wembley than journalism if you couldn't work that out .

But , as with Jacques , who would know if you never got the chance ?

[Bagwan]

If won't happen so it's quite irrelevant for the topic. Maybe a new one for discussing potential/wanted F1 returns in general would be better and less confusing.

Maybe you should read the first post , where I mentioned Jacques , before you post he is irrelevent .

And , maybe you should know that Pino chose the title for this thread as well .

I hope you are now less confused .

[maxter]

I just don't see how it's relevant to discuss JV (or Raikkonen for that matter) when Boullier has stated quite clearly that it will be Heidfeld, Liuzzi or Fisichella. But whatever, it will be announced soon enough so it's not a big deal. Maybe afterwards it can be renamed and continue discussions about speculations and wishes in general.

I'm not aware of the original title of the topic so my posts here are based on the current one, I hope that's okay.

[Dave B]

"Would enjoy" implies that he didn't enjoy the cars when he was driving .
That he "would enjoy" the new formula , implies that he would do better , Dave .

Maybe you'd be better suited to Wembley than journalism if you couldn't work that out .
Jock said nothing of the sort, you're making a leap of faith and putting words in Jock's mouth.


But , as with Jacques , who would know if you never got the chance ?
How did his last comeback go? P11, P10, P10, wasn't it? Renault would be crazy to want him back. He had his chance - he had serveral chances. He was mediocre when he quit the first time, hopeless when he quit the second time, and hasn't been in F1 for four years.

Let it go.

[Retro Formula 1]

The problem is that none of the current crop of team managers know who JV is. I mean, it's not as if he's well known and gagging to return to F1.

Or perhaps they think he's not worth it ;)

[Roamy]

I just read the following:

our source claims that Kubica has said he would prefer to be replaced by Force India F1 refugee Vitantonio Liuzzi, whom he considers to be a better racer out of the pair. The 26-year-old is friends with both.

[Koz]

I just read the following:

our source claims that Kubica has said he would prefer to be replaced by Force India F1 refugee Vitantonio Liuzzi, whom he considers to be a better racer out of the pair. The 26-year-old is friends with both.

I can't understand his logic on this one. I think it might be going back to his BMW rant about Nick costing him the title in 2008.

[Tazio]

I can't understand his logic on this one. I think it might be going back to his BMW rant about Nick costing him the title in 2008.
Or; RK has spent a large portion of his adult life in Italy, and is bias.
And/or; Rk was heavily medicated at the time of this statement :)

[Bagwan]

I read it one of two ways , and either could be correct .

He's a guy talking about his replacement , and he wants that guy to genuinely be fast , and carry the team forward .
He seems well liked in the paddock , so that may well be the case . That being that he isn't afraid of anyone anyway .

Or , it might be easy to think he's a guy who's suggesting a team-mate least likely to succeed in carrying the team forward .
Vitaly is the one who said that Robert was not much of a mentor , and that suggests that he's one man in casual dress , and quite another in his racing suit .
And given is that he is crazy enough to risk his drive this close to the season , shows he is driven enough to be crazy enough to win it all .

That kind of ego would never put the best man for the job in the seat .

A large part of the enjoyment during his recovery would be to see that Vitaly now has a little of his mentoring , so that he beats his new team-mate . We've seen Robert beat Vitaly comprehensively , so , from that , we can extrapolate that Robert is better than anyone who replaces him , as long as his team-mate holds up well .


I don't know which it is , but it's one or the other .

[woody2goody]

I can't understand his logic on this one. I think it might be going back to his BMW rant about Nick costing him the title in 2008.

I'm a fan of Liuzzi, but to say that he is better than Heidfeld is ridiculous.

And Nick costing him the title in 2008? I don't remember anything about that. All I remember is Kubica complaining about the team, despite the fact that they gave him the Canada win when Nick had put himself in a winning position.

What I want to know is: say Heidfeld starts the season, but then before say, Australia, it emerges that Robert will return for Monaco. What then happens if Heidfeld wins three out of the first five races? Does Kubica replace Petrov, or does he not get his seat back at all?

I know he's pretty unlikely to return by then, if at all this year, but it would be interesting to see how Renault handle that dilemma if it occurs.

[Roamy]

I'm a fan of Liuzzi, but to say that he is better than Heidfeld is ridiculous.

And Nick costing him the title in 2008? I don't remember anything about that. All I remember is Kubica complaining about the team, despite the fact that they gave him the Canada win when Nick had put himself in a winning position.

What I want to know is: say Heidfeld starts the season, but then before say, Australia, it emerges that Robert will return for Monaco. What then happens if Heidfeld wins three out of the first five races? Does Kubica replace Petrov, or does he not get his seat back at all?

I know he's pretty unlikely to return by then, if at all this year, but it would be interesting to see how Renault handle that dilemma if it occurs.

what happens if they pass out free crack at all 5 races. Maybe we will all think Heidfield won.

[Dave B]

Heidfeld confirmed, announcement imminent.

[Tazio]

Heidfeld confirmed, announcement imminent.
Done

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89513

[woody2goody]

what happens if they pass out free crack at all 5 races. Maybe we will all think Heidfield won.

:D

[AndyL]

What I want to know is: say Heidfeld starts the season, but then before say, Australia, it emerges that Robert will return for Monaco. What then happens if Heidfeld wins three out of the first five races? Does Kubica replace Petrov, or does he not get his seat back at all?

I know he's pretty unlikely to return by then, if at all this year, but it would be interesting to see how Renault handle that dilemma if it occurs.

I think you can buy the team and then you can decide :) If you put a tenner on an accumulator of Kubica to be fit before Monaco, and Heidfeld to win 3 out of 5 races, you'll be able to afford it!

[foxystoat]

Done

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89513

At least we can stop mentioning JV or any other has beens now , unless he is going to get the 2nd HRT seat ;)

[Sonic]

Last big chance for Nick. 33 years old and (admittedly via less than ideal means) he finds himself in, what appears to be, a top, top car.

Best of luck to the weirdy beardy.

[maxter]

I'd like nothing more than to see "Quick Nick" win a race this year. Relish the opportunity Nicky boy.. :)
I'll just go ahead and quote this as I feel the exact same way. :)

[Mia 01]

I´ll think renualt will be one of the contenders this year. With only a tiny bit of luck Nick will win his first F1 race this year, and even moore could come.

Robert preferred Luzzi to drive his car, I could understand that for moore than one reason.

If robert will drive an F1 car again, it wont be this season I´m afraid. Rnualt needs all WCC ponts they can get, it means money to next years car.

[Roamy]

At least we can stop mentioning JV or any other has beens now , unless he is going to get the 2nd HRT seat ;)

He won't get the seat unless he has a deal to buy the team - with that being said it has be awful quiet on the JV front. I am a bit surprised I have not seen any ramblings in the Nationwide series

[steveaki13]

This appears the correct decision from the teams point of view. If it was a couple of races then Senna or one of their other test drivers would have been given the drive, but with 1/2 if not a whole season to potentially drive Renault have done the sensible thing.

Good Luck Nick, I hope he has a great start with Renault and would like to see him win his first race. I think it would be nice to see it.

[ioan]

Well done Nick! Make the best of it!

Bye bye JV! :wave:
I am sure someone will bring him up next time when a team looks fora replacement, at least we will have some fun!

[BDunnell]

Bye bye JV! :wave:
I am sure someone will bring him up next time when a team looks fora replacement, at least we will have some fun!

I am sure he will still be brought up in such circumstances in a decade's time. To do so would be no more absurd than the suggestion is now.

Personally, I liked the idea put forward somewhere in one of the threads — possibly even this one — that the driver needed is someone of experience, who is hungry to win their first championship, and has been racing recently, making Stirling Moss the ideal candidate.

[steveaki13]

Well done Nick! Make the best of it!

Bye bye JV! :wave:
I am sure someone will bring him up next time when a team looks fora replacement, at least we will have some fun!

:up:

[Kevincal]

Alonso talks about Kubica (recent)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BzbRE4sozg

*I would have put this in "Kubica Injured" topic but its closed.. :(

[52Paddy]

Alonso is right. No point confining these drivers from activities that help their career. Everything we do involves risk, so let them at it.

[rjbetty]

OK, on the subject of Nick Heidfeld, I saw this picture on him on http://www.planet-f1.com

Now surely this time more than 1 person will agree with me. If you USE YOUR IMAGINATION even just a little bit, you will see that he looks like a younger version of Charles Dance (He's an actor if you don't know!). Just imagine him without the mop hair ok? I think it must be his eyes that are similar.

But then I'm probably only thinking this cos Alien 3 was on the other day and I watched it.

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[rjbetty]

Sorry I have to post twice cos I'm only allowed to upload one picture per post.

Here's a picture I stole from http://www.imdb.com of Charles Dance.

COME ON, surely you must be able to see something of Nick Heidfeld in him, if you just imagine him with a mop of hair instead of a hat. Yep, I'm sure it's the eyes.

Surely you will agree with me this time.

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