Will TV dictate NASCAR schedules?

[BrownDog]

Interesting read this AM about FOX sports complaining NASCAR races are too long and that is what is contributing to the downward trend of fans tuning in.

Just thinking...maybe the lack of interest is related to all the changes Brian Farce has made over the past few years? Maybe it is because during a race we see more commercials than we do racing? Maybe it is because racing ain't racing anymore but more of a "show"? Maybe the stands are empty because people can't afford to spend the hundreds of dollars it takes to hit a race?

Thoughts?

[Lee Roy]

I'm afraid that I have to agree about the length of the broadcasts. I find I'm watching a lot more Formula One (which has a two hour time limit if the race does reach the advertised distance for some reason) than I am NASCAR. Even if I do DVR the NASCAR races and fast forward through the interminable advertisements.

I always thought the long lengths of the races was necessary for the actual fans in the stands so they felt they had enough "track time" to make the trip to the track worthwhile. But from the dropping attendance, I'm beginning to question that.


CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) - Fox Sports chairman David Hill believes NASCAR races need to be shortened to fit into a three-hour broadcast window.

Hill said Monday night the length of races _ many stretch well into a fourth hour _ is one of the problems that's contributed to NASCAR's sinking television ratings.

"I think the racing is far too long," Hill said during Charlotte Motor Speedway's annual media tour. "There is more diversion, more opportunities for stuff than any other time in man's history."

Hill said the ideal for Fox would be a four-hour broadcast window, with 40 minutes of pre-race coverage and 20 minutes of post-race coverage. Asked if he'd push NASCAR to shorten any of its races, Hill didn't miss a beat.

"NASCAR doesn't negotiate," he deadpanned.


http://www.wtop.com/?nid=114&sid=2247435

[BrownDog]

Is it the race that is too long or is it the 2 hours of pre-race shows and the 60 minutes of post-race stuff? I don't even tune into that anymore.

By the way...great to see you Lee Roy!!

[Lee Roy]

Great to see you back BrownDog. Hope all is well with you.

I agree on the pre-race shows, I never watch them. But it would be an issue for the the broadcaster. I think it's time for NASCAR to just accept the fact that the the huge popularity tide has ebbed for the time being. It might come back some day, but trying to force it back by all kinds of new items such as revised points systems, the chase, and other such nonsense will not work. It will come back when more of the public sees a product they are excited about.

[brisca79]

Funny how folk are different in there views aint it? I actually enjoy the pre and post race stuff more than some of the race tbh. I very much agree that some of the big oval races are far too long, tend to watch the first 50 or so laps, channel hop for a while (including popping back into see how the race is going) than watch the last 50ish. I also keep the laptop tuned to a related chat site so if anything does kick off I can quickly tune back in for the replay.

When we go over for the Florida speedweeks we regularly attend the shootout,duel and trucks but only twice have I been to the 500 'cos it's so damn long....the last couple of occaisions we've had an "open villa" party for travelling UK stox fand who don't go to the track and had the race on the TV.

Would be boring if we were all the same eh?
Mike

[Alexamateo]

I'll agree on the 4 hour broadcast window, but for me it should be 30 minutes total pre and post race coverage. I liked broadcasts better when they went to air and it was "Gentlemen Start your engines". They went through the lineup and the pre-race storylines during the parade laps and then dropped the flag.

Some races should stay traditional lengths like Charlotte, but others could drop to 400-350 laps or miles. Last season, the shortest race was Watkins Glen at 2:23 followed by Michigan I at 2:33. The 600 at Charlotte was the longest at 4:08.

FWIW, I think the Daytona 500, the 600, and Talladega's races should stay the same regardless.

The second longest race last year was Darlington's 500 miler @ 3:59. That's a tough call because of tradition, but it's already not on Labor Day, so what's the harm in dropping to 400 miles.

Bristols races were 3:20 and 2:41 last year so they could stay 500 lappers, but Martinsville's races were 3:39 and 3:40 so they might want to lop off 100 laps.

The rest of the 500 milers should probably consider dropping to 400. Last season's 400 milers were all in the 3 hour window plus or minus (including Dover's), while 500 milers were 3.5 hours plus.

I also think that the popularity boom of the early 2000's was largely a fad for many of the new fans, and those fans have moved on to the next thing, whatever that is. What it needs to do now is not alienate the core fans, but to many, Nascar is managing to do just that.

As far as attendance, there are many factors. I am curious as to what the ticket prices were many years ago in relation to a person's average earnings. It seems a little cost prohibitive now to carry one's whole family, and certainly if people as a whole feel less secure economically, that will weigh into one's attendance. I would make sure though (if I were a promoter) to get blocks of free tickets to boy/girl scout/clubs, church youth groups etc. to get those young people (and their parents) to the track. Some of those folks will grow up and continue to follow the sport.

[Alexamateo]

A little further info and perspective courtesy of TC at Nascar Insiders


I have absolutely no idea why the length of races continues to be discussed. After a little bit of research (thanks to Racing-Reference.info) I found out that the average race duration for the 2010 season was three hours, 14 minutes. The longest race of the season was four hours, eight minutes, and the shortest was two hours, 23 minutes. Comparably, the average NFL game takes somewhere between three hours, 5 minutes, and three hours, 10 minutes (according to various websites). So unless David Hill and others are going to start asking the NFL to shorten their games, I’d say NASCAR is okay. – T.C.

[BobbyC]

Television has dictated the second Sunday in April (Masters Final Round) is a No Racing day, joining Easter and Mother's Day Sunday as No Racing days. That's why Texas moved its spring race to a night race.

[ICWS]

NASCAR does need to reduce the distances of most of their races by 100 miles. I think the Daytona 500, Brickyard 400, World 600, Southern 500, and one of the 500-mile Talladega races should be the only races to keep their existing length. Every other race should be a 300 to 400 mile affair. For the Richmond, Martinsville, and Bristol races, I would suggest they reduce the races by 100 laps.

I think reducing the length of most of their races does 2 things: 1. Making the races shorter means there's less time to waste for the drivers; that cringe-worthy period of watching drivers just coasting around the track during the middle part of the race to save fuel, avoid crashing, and setting up a strategy for the end of the race will be reduced. 2. Races like the Daytona 500, Southern 500, and World 600 will be able to market themselves as being unique races again by being longer in length than the other "normal" races. This has worked in the Le Mans/Grand-Am series quite well (Daytona, Sebring, Le Mans, Petit Le Mans, etc.), so it could work for NASCAR. In fact, with those races I mentioned in the 1st paragraph they could consider bringing back some form the No Bull 5 to enhance the uniqueness of those races even more.

It would be interesting if NASCAR did adopt the way Formula One conducts races where the race is finished if it goes over the alotted T.V. time (3 hours for example) regardless of how many laps are actually remaining. I strongly doubt they would ever do that but it would be interesting to see; maybe at Watkins Glen and Sonoma.

[NaBUru38]

Back to the original theme, supposing that spectators want shorter races, Nascar can either obey them or try to convince them that the current durations are good.

About the fans' "track time", see that most major championships around the world have much shorter races than Nascar (F1 80-120min, WTCC ca. 30min, Argentine 50min, FIA GT1 60min, DTM ca. 60min), and they compensate that by having a long list of support races - development or gentlemen, lower formulae or touring cars, historic cars.

Unfortunately, most Nascar ovals are compatible with very little types of cars. In addition, Nationwide and Truck races are held the previous days to encourage fans to attend the track those days and to allow buschwhackers do double-duty without stressing them on the Cup race day. There's little Nascar can do in ovals.

[call_me_andrew]

I always thought the long lengths of the races was necessary for the actual fans in the stands so they felt they had enough "track time" to make the trip to the track worthwhile. But from the dropping attendance, I'm beginning to question that.

When I'm at the track and there's a late caution that bunches up the field, I think, "Can we just hurry up and end this already. I've had to pee since lap 120."

[ICWS]

About the fans' "track time", see that most major championships around the world have much shorter races than Nascar (F1 80-120min, WTCC ca. 30min, Argentine 50min, FIA GT1 60min, DTM ca. 60min), and they compensate that by having a long list of support races - development or gentlemen, lower formulae or touring cars, historic cars.

Good point. That's why I would doubt NASCAR would ever consider doing that for their races. But I mentioned the possibility of doing that at Watkins Glen and Sonoma, the two road courses. I think it would be a little easier do that on those tracks. NASCAR cars are pretty slow on road courses, and I have a feeling the races at Watkins Glen and Sonoma probably have two of the lowest T.V. ratings of all the Cup races during the season, due to lack of speed and excitement. Of course, both of the races tend to last about 2 1/2 hours, which is roughly 30 minutes up to 1 1/2 hour shorter than the other races on the schedule.

[call_me_andrew]

Good point. That's why I would doubt NASCAR would ever consider doing that for their races. But I mentioned the possibility of doing that at Watkins Glen and Sonoma, the two road courses. I think it would be a little easier do that on those tracks. NASCAR cars are pretty slow on road courses, and I have a feeling the races at Watkins Glen and Sonoma probably have two of the lowest T.V. ratings of all the Cup races during the season, due to lack of speed and excitement. Of course, both of the races tend to last about 2 1/2 hours, which is roughly 30 minutes up to 1 1/2 hour shorter than the other races on the schedule.

Actually, road course races get some of the highest ratings. http://jayski.com/pages/tvratings2010.htm

[Lee Roy]

Actually, road course races get some of the highest ratings. http://jayski.com/pages/tvratings2010.htm

You are correct. I think people look forward to the road course races because they are a bit of a different, almost always exciting, always bring in new drivers (ringers), and for me, I particularly love watching the cars go through the esses at the Glen.

[BrownDog]

I think road courses are one of those types of races where you either love them or you hate them...I love them!

[Sparky1329]

I think road courses are one of those types of races where you either love them or you hate them...I love them!

Same here. I wish there were more of them on the schedules.

[Lee Roy]

Same here. I wish there were more of them on the schedules.

Me too. Montreal and Road America.

[slorydn1]

Me too. Montreal and Road America.

Amen :up:

[ICWS]

How about Laguna Seca? Although, if that were to happen I'm pretty sure they would have to drop the race at Sonoma.

[e2mtt]

Road courses are my favorite also, and are the 2 races I am the most likely to watch flag to flag. The whole race is interesting & meaningful. Most NASCAR races are like NBA games - fun start, lots & lots of filler time in the middle (still good sport, but you don't miss anything by skipping it) then a tight, ref/official staged finish.