Good news for us TIREs!

[Dave B]

I keep reading (on here at least) how Muslims are terrorising Europe, and how we're all under threat from Islamic related terrorism.

Turns out that's a load of rubbish. Who knew?



The European Union's Terrorism Situation and Trend Report 2010 states that in 2009 there were "294 failed, foiled, or successfully executed attacks" in six European countries. This was down almost one-third from the total in 2008 and down by almost one-half from the total in 2007.

So in most of Europe, there was no terrorism. And where there was terrorism, the trend line pointed down.

As for who's responsible, forget Islamists. The overwhelming majority of the attacks -- 237 of 294 -- were carried out by separatist groups, such as the Basque ETA. A further 40 terrorists schemes were pinned on leftist and/or anarchist terrorists. Rightists were responsible for four attacks. Single-issue groups were behind two attacks, while responsibility for a further 10 was not clear.

Islamists? They were behind a grand total of one attack. Yes, one. Out of 294 attacks. In a population of half a billion people. To put that in perspective, the same number of attacks was committed by the Comite d'Action Viticole, a French group that wants to stop the importation of foreign wine.




Source: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/great+Islamist+menace/4084610/story.html

[CaptainRaiden]

Hopefully this opens up some eyes.....and brains. Well, actually I don't know how much this is going to change the opinions of those people who have already made up their mind against all muslims by generalizing.

I'm not a muslim and don't plan to be one in the future, but I've personally known some of them as classmates or colleagues at work, and almost all of them have been genuinely nice, peaceful and kind human beings, absolutely despising terrorist attacks just like any normal person would.

There are several Neo-Nazi groups operating in Europe and America doing hate crimes even today, but that doesn't mean that all Europeans and Americans are Nazis.

[Retro Formula 1]

I appreciate what you're saying Dave and agree to a large degree but there is still a risk from Muslim extremists.

Eta might try and kidnap someone or plant a small bomb for maximum effect and indeed, have nyrdered over 600 people since they were formed but Muslim terrorists want widespread damage with maximum impact and casualty. 7/7 (52 dead), 9/11 (3000 dead), Madrid (191 dead), Bali (200 dead).

We have to keep the risk in proportion both as a risk and the response to that risk. Perhaps we as a nation should look at lessening this risk by keeping our fat noses out of other peoples business and not supporting oppressive nations who stifle free speech and violate human rights.

[BDunnell]

I appreciate what you're saying Dave and agree to a large degree but there is still a risk from Muslim extremists.

Eta might try and kidnap someone or plant a small bomb for maximum effect and indeed, have nyrdered over 600 people since they were formed but Muslim terrorists want widespread damage with maximum impact and casualty. 7/7 (52 dead), 9/11 (3000 dead), Madrid (191 dead), Bali (200 dead).

We have to keep the risk in proportion both as a risk and the response to that risk. Perhaps we as a nation should look at lessening this risk by keeping our fat noses out of other peoples business and not supporting oppressive nations who stifle free speech and violate human rights.

Including those that happen to be large-scale producers of oil.

[Lousada]

I appreciate what you're saying Dave and agree to a large degree but there is still a risk from Muslim extremists.

Eta might try and kidnap someone or plant a small bomb for maximum effect and indeed, have nyrdered over 600 people since they were formed but Muslim terrorists want widespread damage with maximum impact and casualty. 7/7 (52 dead), 9/11 (3000 dead), Madrid (191 dead), Bali (200 dead).

We have to keep the risk in proportion both as a risk and the response to that risk. Perhaps we as a nation should look at lessening this risk by keeping our fat noses out of other peoples business and not supporting oppressive nations who stifle free speech and violate human rights.

What risk are you talking about? 3500 deaths in ten years in the whole world?

[Retro Formula 1]

Including those that happen to be large-scale producers of oil.

:up:

It doesn't matter if you live in a Democracy or a Dictatorship. It should be up to the people of that country to decide their own fate.

I don't mind if we try to influence states by diplomacy or trade but I am fed up of us thinking this global saviour and should forcibly dictate how over countries are run.

[Retro Formula 1]

What risk are you talking about? 3500 deaths in ten years in the whole world?

3500 is just a few examples of Al Qaeda murders, not including other attrocities such as Bali or the horrendous ongoing death toll in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We will always be at risk from terrorist attacks with our current foreign policy and at the moment, it's not huge numbers as you say. BUT, that's not through choice and if there was a way to commit mass murder, I am sure it would be attempted.

That's why we need to take measures to reduce that risk.

[Mark]

And those killed in the 7/7 bombings was only 1.5% of the number of people killed on the roads that year, but it doesn't make their deaths any less tragic or important.

[driveace]

Well ETA today stated that it has finished with,attacks and bombing,and that in the future it will settle all its disputes by political means.The Spanish police,and security services dont believe them.

[BDunnell]

And those killed in the 7/7 bombings was only 1.5% of the number of people killed on the roads that year, but it doesn't make their deaths any less tragic or important.

Nor, I'd add, any more so.

[Retro Formula 1]

And those killed in the 7/7 bombings was only 1.5% of the number of people killed on the roads that year, but it doesn't make their deaths any less tragic or important.

I struggle with the point you are trying to make here Mark.

All lives are important but some might be more important to individuals. For example, I would mourn a Child that dies in a motor accident more than a drunk driver that crashes and kills himself, yet they are both victims of road death.

Following that vein, I conclude that if we are going to have a road network and right to drive in this country, then I accept that as part of that benefit, there is a risk of death.

There is a huge difference between that and murder by Terrorists (or by any other crime).

Are we justifying Terrorism because it's so much safer to the UK population than a car?

[Dave B]

Not justifying terrorism in the slightest, never, but it is sensible to retain a sense of perspective and not be suckered into being paranoid about the very remote threat posed by extremists of any persuasion.

[Bob Riebe]

Nor, I'd add, any more so.

The reaction to death by murder is far more important than how one reacts to death by stupidity or bad fortune,

[Retro Formula 1]

Not justifying terrorism in the slightest, never, but it is sensible to retain a sense of perspective and not be suckered into being paranoid about the very remote threat posed by extremists of any persuasion.

Where have I advocated doing anything but maintain a sense of perspective? i just argue that there needs to be a proportional response to the risk?

[Bob Riebe]

Not justifying terrorism in the slightest, never, but it is sensible to retain a sense of perspective and not be suckered into being paranoid about the very remote threat posed by extremists of any persuasion.
The cartoonist murdered in Europe, was not considered an act of terrorism, but it was by a muslim.
The U.S. soldier who murdered other soldiers was not considered terrorism, but it was by a muslim.

You are using official terrorism reports to make those murdered by muslims seem unimportant.

Similar to what the Obama Administration did when the muslim soldier murdered other soldiers It was kept as low key as possible without being ignored totally; whereas now with the liberal nut-cake who murdered a Dem. politician, the Democrats and every talking head liberal on the airwaves are trying to concoct reasons to blame any one or thing that goes against their politics.

Your concern for the murdered ones is so telling.

[Dave B]

Where have I advocated doing anything but maintain a sense of perspective? i just argue that there needs to be a proportional response to the risk?
It wasn't aimed at you :)


The cartoonist murdered in Europe, was not considered an act of terrorism, but it was by a muslim.
The U.S. soldier who murdered other soldiers was not considered terrorism, but it was by a muslim.

So? Just because it was "by a muslim" doesn't necessarily make it terrorism.


You are using official terrorism reports to make those murdered by muslims seem unimportant.

No I am not. Please don't twist my words to suit your own aims. No death is unimportant, be it a murder or a terrorist attack; be it by Muslim, Christian or athiest.



Similar to what the Obama Administration did when the muslim soldier murdered other soldiers It was kept as low key as possible without being ignored totally; whereas now with the liberal nut-cake who murdered a Dem. politician, the Democrats and every talking head liberal on the airwaves are trying to concoct reasons to blame any one or thing that goes against their politics.
That paragraph truly belongs in a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists' forum.



Your concern for the murdered ones is so telling.
I think you're second-guessing me, wrongly, again.

[Bob Riebe]

That paragraph truly belongs in a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists' forum.

Are you in the States listening to what is being broadcast daily?

Did you hear the Tuscon Sheriff who blamed this on conservative talk radio and Sarah Palin?

Probably not so I will forgive such an obtuse statement on ignorance.

One law proposed yesterday, was making it a Federal felony for anyone, legal carry or not, to carry a firearm within one thousand feet of a Federally elected official.
WOW- that would have scared the shooter off for sure.

At the same time, the Obama administration did not release the statement by the soldier shooter that he was in a jihad against the U.S. because they were killing his muslim brother until days after the shooting.

One striking similarity in both cases, though totally different in content of threats, was that both shooters had been making nut-job threats for quite some time yet nothing was done by authorities.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Terrorism takes on many forms. Sometimes one shouldn't ask why they did it, just take measures to stop it again. Having someone ask questions of really insane people trying to either join the army or buy guns might be a start....

I have to say though Bob, you are right, the media who love to pile on on moose girl Palin really had the long knives out and now they have found out this guy who did the deed is a garden variety loony toon, they are just whitewashing it.

It was a bit of a farce...

[Roamy]

Palin gets stronger and the media gets weaker. As do some of the idiot lawmakers we have. Apparently the Tucson shooter had clips of 31 rounds. Thank God the second one had a little problem and the people were able to get it. Now is someone in the immediate area had been properly armed they could well have popped this idiot. Now look at the millions we have to spend and the many years of incarceration costs - for what?? Guys like this need to be eliminated immediately from the planet.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Palin gets stronger and the media gets weaker. As do some of the idiot lawmakers we have. Apparently the Tucson shooter had clips of 31 rounds. Thank God the second one had a little problem and the people were able to get it. Now is someone in the immediate area had been properly armed they could well have popped this idiot. Now look at the millions we have to spend and the many years of incarceration costs - for what?? Guys like this need to be eliminated immediately from the planet.

Roamy, the boy is mentally Ill. The only other regimes that fried the mentally ill without question are Communist China, the USSR and Nazi Germany. I think in some cases, the criminally insane charge is hard to prove, but in this one, I think there is more than enough evidence to indicate the guy was a mentally unstable anarchist who had no touch with his reality.

He ran into the Safeway to get change to pay the cabbie before he shot up the crowd. What kind of mind is THAT??

[Roamy]

Roamy, the boy is mentally Ill. The only other regimes that fried the mentally ill without question are Communist China, the USSR and Nazi Germany. I think in some cases, the criminally insane charge is hard to prove, but in this one, I think there is more than enough evidence to indicate the guy was a mentally unstable anarchist who had no touch with his reality.

He ran into the Safeway to get change to pay the cabbie before he shot up the crowd. What kind of mind is THAT??

mark I will make you a deal - you pay for his keep and I will lock him up - short of that he goes to see Dr Winchester within one year. Thats my new law.

If you can pay for him we will lock em up!!