Chinese

[Roamy]

So a couple of interesting points. They now apparently have a stealth fighter that surpasses the F22. Then they have a anti aircraft missile that will take out a carrier at one thousand miles. So in check they appear to be developing these weapons to surpass us. So my simple question is this

WHY ARE WE BUYING THEIR SH!T ????

And why do the Euros think they are exempt from this superior power??
Have you guys just committed to lay down?

We are so dumb we will probably end up selling out for the price of a good NFL team. Ahso but maybe they will be better that the muslims :)

Gimme number 8 broccoli chicken !!
Oh my God no more New Yorks and Cab from Napa :(
Am I glad I am in the twilight !

[Tomi]

We are so dumb we will probably end up selling out for the price of a good NFL team.

You already have, if the chineese start collecting the money you own them, you would be in deep ****.

[Sonic]

You already have, if the chineese start collecting the money you own them, you would be in deep ****.

:D

[Eki]

So a couple of interesting points. They now apparently have a stealth fighter that surpasses the F22. Then they have a anti aircraft missile that will take out a carrier at one thousand miles. So in check they appear to be developing these weapons to surpass us. So my simple question is this

WHY ARE WE BUYING THEIR SH!T ????

And why do the Euros think they are exempt from this superior power??
Have you guys just committed to lay down?

We are so dumb we will probably end up selling out for the price of a good NFL team. Ahso but maybe they will be better that the muslims :)

Gimme number 8 broccoli chicken !!
Oh my God no more New Yorks and Cab from Napa :(
Am I glad I am in the twilight !
We've put up so long with the sh!t of the US superior power that a bit of healthy competition is welcome. While you and the Chinese try to outspend each other on weapons until bankruptcy, we can concentrate on getting rich by catering to both sides.

[BDunnell]

They now apparently have a stealth fighter that surpasses the F22.

No, they don't. Believe me. The Chinese 'stealth fighter' may appear to exist, but there is no way it surpasses the F-22.


So my simple question is this

WHY ARE WE BUYING THEIR SH!T ????

Because of free-market capitalism, a system I assume you support.

[Tomi]

No, they don't. Believe me. The Chinese 'stealth fighter' may appear to exist, but there is no way it surpasses the F-22.



Because of free-market capitalism, a system I assume you support.

Sometimes it looks like it depend who the free market economy benefits, the recent campain against Toyota is a good example.

[AndySpeed]

So a couple of interesting points. They now apparently have a stealth fighter that surpasses the F22. Then they have a anti aircraft missile that will take out a carrier at one thousand miles. So in check they appear to be developing these weapons to surpass us. So my simple question is this

WHY ARE WE BUYING THEIR SH!T ????

Are 'you' scared of losing a bit of power? I see nothing wrong with the power balance.

The Chinese are a great people with a very proud heritage and civilization. If they surpass the US so what. A country that has got to where it is in just a few hundred years through exploitation versus a country that is starting to show it's rightful true power and has an impressive history spanning thousands of years.

Although in many respects I do appreciate your patriotism about buying - in the UK I try and buy local when I can but have to weigh up the cost and benefit. I'd still rather support a local business.

Edit - Note I am not hostile towards the US (fantastic place) but towards your thoughts on China...

[markabilly]

You already have, if the chineese start collecting the money you own them, you would be in deep ****.
you mean "owe" I presume, Dr. Tomi???

Just because they now own 50% of US treasury bonds and notes...

[Roamy]

We've put up so long with the sh!t of the US superior power that a bit of healthy competition is welcome. While you and the Chinese try to outspend each other on weapons until bankruptcy, we can concentrate on getting rich by catering to both sides.

one of your better plans :)

[Tomi]

you mean "owe" I presume, Dr. Tomi???

Just because they now own 50% of US treasury bonds and notes...

And thats only a part truth, if there would be Chineese signs on all the property they have bought in recent years, Chinatown would be quite big already.

[Roamy]

No, they don't. Believe me. The Chinese 'stealth fighter' may appear to exist, but there is no way it surpasses the F-22.



Because of free-market capitalism, a system I assume you support.

We should start a thread of it's own on this topic

[Brown, Jon Brow]

China has the right to self defence as much as any country.

It will be a least a decade before they have their own designed stealth fighter off the ground.

[Mark in Oshawa]

No, they don't. Believe me. The Chinese 'stealth fighter' may appear to exist, but there is no way it surpasses the F-22.



Because of free-market capitalism, a system I assume you support.

Leave it to my favourite left of center guy to hit the nail on the head!!!!

The Chinese haven't surpassed the F22 for sure, and Americans can no more quit buying from the Chinese than they can stop breathing air. Go into a Wal Mart Roamy and look at everything in there and where it is made. And then understand if it was all made over here, it would likely be 4 times more expensive....

[Mark in Oshawa]

one of your better plans :)
Eki wouldn't do it in the end...too capitalist for him...lol

[BDunnell]

It will be a least a decade before they have their own designed stealth fighter off the ground.

That may not be true. But, even if it were to fly tomorrow, no way would it surpass anything the US has produced.

[Mark in Oshawa]

That may not be true. But, even if it were to fly tomorrow, no way would it surpass anything the US has produced.

You do though of course acknowledge though they are gaining, while the F22 may be the last leap forward from America for some time?

The Raptor is a wonderful machine, but it is too much money in a society that is trying to justify not spending on military items...

[BDunnell]

You do though of course acknowledge though they are gaining, while the F22 may be the last leap forward from America for some time?

The Raptor is a wonderful machine, but it is too much money in a society that is trying to justify not spending on military items...

Absolutely, in terms of manned combat aircraft.

I will, incidentally, be extremely interested to see at the end of the F-22's life — whenever that may be — how many enemy aircraft it ends up shooting down. It is entirely possible that the figure will be zero.

[gloomyDAY]

The Chinese are basically our greatest capitalistic rival. They're beating us at our own game and they just keep on running with the ball. Instead of bickering with one another here in The States we should really focus on what we need to do in order to advance. America needs to address many issues in order to compete against China and even countries such as India, which are expected to outperform China in terms of economic gains, but I think this issue is the most prevalent:

Education - We cannot have an undereducated populous propelling this country to new heights and glory. Just won't happen! When America is marginally outperforming a country like Mexico, which has far less educational resources and money, then we are really in deep popo. Give the kids of today a chance at success in the future.

As of right now, try private school!

[Roamy]

The Chinese are basically our greatest capitalistic rival. They're beating us at our own game and they just keep on running with the ball. Instead of bickering with one another here in The States we should really focus on what we need to do in order to advance. America needs to address many issues in order to compete against China and even countries such as India, which are expected to outperform China in terms of economic gains, but I think this issue is the most prevalent:

Education - We cannot have an undereducated populous propelling this country to new heights and glory. Just won't happen! When America is marginally outperforming a country like Mexico, which has far less educational resources and money, then we are really in deep popo. Give the kids of today a chance at success in the future.

As of right now, try private school!

Well maybe modified capitalistic they are. The gov still controls much of what goes on. We have become dumbed down to the point we can't even realize we are not playing of a level field. Therefore our immediate remedy is tariffs. Next up is to reinvent manufacturing and buying american products.
Probably the only way that we can get the message through now is to tax the dummies on their foreign purchases.

Why do 9 people control the price of oil???

[gloomyDAY]

Well maybe modified capitalistic they are. The gov still controls much of what goes on. We have become dumbed down to the point we can't even realize we are not playing of a level field. Therefore our immediate remedy is tariffs. Next up is to reinvent manufacturing and buying american products. You ain't cheating, you ain't tryin'. The Chinese have managed to find loopholes that keeps them rolling in the green. A tariff war is the last thing we need in such a fragile economy. Also, my old man was a machine operator for a manufacturing company. The company folded and along with that went my old man's 25+ years and a pension. Can America get back to being a manufacturing juggernaut? I doubt it. Those days are long gone baby!

[anthonyvop]

So a couple of interesting points. They now apparently have a stealth fighter that surpasses the F22.

No they have a protoype of a large "Stealthy" fighter with no thrust vectoring, dubious targeting capability and huge engine reliability issues.
Most experts put Chinese fighter technology at 20 years behind the US at best.


Then they have a anti aircraft missile that will take out a carrier at one thousand miles.


Ahh a few press reports and nobody bothers to even investigate what technology in both targeting and explosives is needed to do what is claimed.

Forget the targeting. Do you have any idea the amount of explosive force that would be needed to sink a Nimitz Class Carrier?

Put it this way. The WW2 Carrier Independence didn't sink at the bikini Atoll test......and that was a Nuclear Bomb!!!!

[gloomyDAY]

I have to agree with Tony. Militarily, they're not close, but I don't underestimate their perseverance. One day, we'll be on par. Then what? Maybe another repetition of 1953. China wants to desperately control the seas in Asia and contest the American Navy's prowess.

[rah]

China is a long way from challenging the USA. But it will get there eventually because the leaders are planning for the future in a way that the US used to. Hopefully this will wake the USA up soon.

[Rudy Tamasz]

WHY ARE WE BUYING THEIR SH!T ????


Because you produce nothing on your own. You decided that you'd be better off by farming the production out to China. I was in towns like Peoria, IL, once the hub of American industry and totally empty now. All those factories packed up and went to China taking jobs with them.

All you produce now is stupid Hollywood flicks and financial bubbles.

Sorry for plain language but that's the way I see it.

[Dave B]

WHY ARE WE BUYING THEIR SH!T ????
I presume that as you take such a moral stance, you yourself own nothing made in - or made using components from - China.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

So a couple of interesting points. They now apparently have a stealth fighter that surpasses the F22. Then they have a anti aircraft missile that will take out a carrier at one thousand miles. So in check they appear to be developing these weapons to surpass us. So my simple question is this

WHY ARE WE BUYING THEIR SH!T ????

And why do the Euros think they are exempt from this superior power??
Have you guys just committed to lay down?

!

If you truly are paranoid and still brainwashed from Cold War propaganda, I think a NATO force of F-22s, F-35's (when they arrive), Typhoons and Rafale's would be more than a match for any force China or Russia could deploy.

[schmenke]

...WHY ARE WE BUYING THEIR SH!T ????
...

Because the largest per-capita consumer of this "sh!t" is in the U.S. Americans want this "sh!t" in abundance, and they want it cheap. The Chinese happen to have the capability to supply this "sh!t" far more efficiently and cheaply than American unionized manufacturers.

The Chinese hold, last I checked, over $8B in US treasuries but will not push for repayment as long as U.S. demand for their "sh!t" continues to fuel their economy.

[hilaryaustin]

WHY ARE WE BUYING THEIR SH!T ????

Some high brand products clarify that even if it was made in china there store and branch are still the same as they are. And the product are still being made by the original producer it self.

Sad to say since china is known to the entire world of low and pirated items. That's why the value for this items made in there place dropped.

[Roamy]

I presume that as you take such a moral stance, you yourself own nothing made in - or made using components from - China.

Well it may be impossible to avoid some items - however at least I take the time to look and try to make better buying decisions. But now that you have brought up this point, how many of you look at the product and see if you can purchase one manufactured in your own country? Or how many of you look at products and at least try to buy ones from you preferred country preference?

[schmenke]

I do try, within reason, to buy Canadian-manufactured products but these invariably tend to be more expensive.
I was looking to purchase a pair of sound speakers about a month ago and settled on a set made by a Canadian company. However, after purchasing I googled and discovered that the speakers are only designed in Canada and manufactured in China :mark:

[555-04Q2]

I do try, within reason, to buy Canadian-manufactured products but these invariably tend to be more expensive.
I was looking to purchase a pair of sound speakers about a month ago and settled on a set made by a Canadian company. However, after purchasing I googled and discovered that the speakers are only designed in Canada and manufactured in China :mark:

I'm the same schmenke, but 99% of everything these days is made in China, sometimes under licence agreements as you found out. I walked around my house about a year ago trying to find something that was made in any country other than China. Guess what? I could only find 4 things that were made elsewhere, my 2 cars in the garage, my firearm and one of my plasma TV's! Scary :s cary:

[schmenke]

555, I'm willing to wager that many of the components in both you cars and television were made in China :mark:

[555-04Q2]

555, I'm willing to wager that many of the components in both you cars and television were made in China :mark:

I agree 100%, but at least they don't have the Made In China stamped on them :D

[Valve Bounce]

So a couple of interesting points. They now apparently have a stealth fighter that surpasses the F22. Then they have a anti aircraft missile that will take out a carrier at one thousand miles. So in check they appear to be developing these weapons to surpass us. So my simple question is this

WHY ARE WE BUYING THEIR SH!T ????

And why do the Euros think they are exempt from this superior power??
Have you guys just committed to lay down?

We are so dumb we will probably end up selling out for the price of a good NFL team. Ahso but maybe they will be better that the muslims :)

Gimme number 8 broccoli chicken !!
Oh my God no more New Yorks and Cab from Napa :(
Am I glad I am in the twilight !

Nearly everything from China is cheaper and better: clothes, shoes, TV, fans, computers, watches, frames for glasses, ....

So we all enjoy saving money by shopping for crap from China.

[veeten]

Why do 9 people control the price of oil???

Because, the member nations of OPEC are the suppliers due to the fact that the oil is under their countries.

The rest of us are either suppliers of logistics or customers, meaning that either we buy or look elsewhere.

[janvanvurpa]

Because you produce nothing on your own. You decided that you'd be better off by farming the production out to China. I was in towns like Peoria, IL, once the hub of American industry and totally empty now. All those factories packed up and went to China taking jobs with them.

All you produce now is stupid Hollywood flicks and financial bubbles.

Sorry for plain language but that's the way I see it.

Rudy, the factories didn't pack up and move, their OWNERS decided they could make more money by paying other people someplace else a mere fraction of what they pay the people that made their products and their profits for who knows how long.
I say this to illustrate clearly where the source of the "industrial collapse" came from: the boardrooms.

Some of us still manufacture things in America and even export to China.
I do.

[AAReagles]

...... Because of free-market capitalism, a system I assume you support.

Not from this Marxist... well, Luddite-Marxist I should say.

[AAReagles]

The Chinese are basically our greatest capitalistic rival. They're beating us at our own game...

They didn’t beat us, we beat ourselves. It's especially easy to figure out when you realize that we've had a bunch of sell-outs running this country.

Someone by the name of Brooks Adams predicted in his book, America’s Economic Supremacy (1900) , that the US and Russia would be the two competing world super powers. With the US succumbing to collapse by private industry (aka - corporations).

He even mentioned a bit about how the US was taking up Great Britain’s debt during the first decline of the British Empire (late 19th century), only for future political/economical ambitions.

Sound familiar?

[Dr. Krogshöj]

WHY ARE WE BUYING THEIR SH!T ????

I don't know about you, but here in Hungary, we buy their sh!t because it's cheap.

[Roamy]

I don't know about you, but here in Hungary, we buy their sh!t because it's cheap.

Then what about your people if all of you money is going to china. Are you just going to print more???

what is you balance of trade like with the chinese?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Then what about your people if all of you money is going to china. Are you just going to print more???

what is you balance of trade like with the chinese?

I think you need to stop focusing on the balance of trade with manufactured goods. More economically developed economies rely more on services and these are, in general, more valuable than manufactured goods.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Then what about your people if all of you money is going to china. Are you just going to print more???

what is you balance of trade like with the chinese?

From January to October last year, we imported Chinese goods for 3700 million euros and exported to China for 985 million euros.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Then what about your people if all of you money is going to china. Are you just going to print more???

what is you balance of trade like with the chinese?

On this one, you have a point. Where will the money come from? Eventually, the Chinese will have all the money I guess...or the system collapses. I dunno, didn't take that much economic theory in University to give anyone the answer...

[Jag_Warrior]

I think you need to stop focusing on the balance of trade with manufactured goods. More economically developed economies rely more on services and these are, in general, more valuable than manufactured goods.

The problem with that is the service sector jobs which have (somewhat) replaced the lost manufacturing jobs in the U.S. are lower paying. Additionally, service sector jobs tend to be domestic in nature. So if you're importing manufactured goods and the jobs that replaced your manufacturing jobs only contribute to the domestic side, you're virtually guaranteed a trade imbalance.

Here is a rundown of our trade deficit situation with China since the mid/late 90's:

1998: -$56 billion
1999: -$68 billion
2000: -$83 billion
2001: -$83 billion
2002: -$103 billion
2003: -$124 billion
2004: -$162 billion
2005: -$202 billion
2006: -$234 billion
2007: -$258 billion
2008: -$268 billion
2009: -$226 billion
2010: -$252 billion

Also, since the topic of budget deficits is on the minds of many these days, it's important to note that trade deficits contribute to the overall deficit (or take away from any surplus).

Here is an article which goes into the topic further:

In 2010, the trade deficit with China is reducing U.S. GDP by more than $400 billion or nearly three percent. Unemployment would be falling rapidly and the U.S. economy recovering more rapidly but for the trade deficit with China and Beijing’s currency policies. Longer term, China’s currency policies reduce U.S. growth by one percentage point a year. The U.S. economy would likely be $1 trillion larger today, but for the trade deficits with China over the last 10 years. (http://seekingalpha.com/article/198492-trade-deficit-china-s-currency-require-u-s-action-now)

[schmenke]

True Jag, but the Chinese are also the largest purchaser of U.S. treasury bonds (although I believe they've recently dumped quite a few), and as long as they keep buying them, it keeps the U.S. economy in check as it allows the U.S. government to borrow more money from the Feds (think bailout :mark: ). As long as the Chinese continue to purchase bonds, the U.S. will not grumble too much about the trade deficit.

[Jag_Warrior]

True Jag, but the Chinese are also the largest purchaser of U.S. treasury bonds (although I believe they've recently dumped quite a few), and as long as they keep buying them, it keeps the U.S. economy in check as it allows the U.S. government to borrow more money from the Feds (think bailout :mark: ). As long as the Chinese continue to purchase bonds, the U.S. will not grumble too much about the trade deficit.

Yes, I agree with you. But it's a Catch-22 for us, if not them as well. We do need them to finance our debt and ongoing deficits. But they need the $ as a safe haven/reserve currency. Plus, without the American consumer, their GDP would take a massive hit, as it would sharply decrease their exports. It's a sick, symbiotic relationship, IMO.

But I do commend the Chinese for NOT doing what the U.S. has done over the past 50 years or so: largely ignoring key domestic (fiscal and monetary) issues, while running around the world dumping $ into everyone else's problems. Kinda funny that we are now borrowing money from the Chinese to finance our wars and immense military spending around the globe. Ain't we special? :)

[schmenke]

Yes, I agree with you. But it's a Catch-22 for us, if not them as well. We do need them to finance our debt and ongoing deficits. But they need the $ as a safe haven/reserve currency. Plus, without the American consumer, their GDP would take a massive hit, as it would sharply decrease their exports. It's a sick, symbiotic relationship, IMO. ...

Yep, the two economies are joined at the hip (I get the feeling this thread should be merged with the “Country Economy” thread :mark: ).

However, like I said, it seems the Chinese have decreasing confidence in the American greenback as they’ve recently dumped quite a few of their treasury bonds in favour of Euro investments, who are also a major trading partner. They have also increased trade with Japan, Taiwan and even Africa. I think the U.S. needs Chinese trade more than the Chinese.

[schmenke]

... Kinda funny that we are now borrowing money from the Chinese to finance our wars and immense military spending around the globe. Ain't we special? :)

And the Chinese are manufacturing and selling cheap weapons to your opponents in those wars :crazy: