Health Care - A Right or a Privilege?

[ICWS]

This is a simple question, but I know it is a difficult one for many to answer. Especially here in America, were President Obama's attempt at health care reform has been received with mixed opinions. Those who support health care reform believe that health care is too expensive and that health insurance companies tend to avoid meeting costs through exclusions, caps, and co-payments. Also, these supporters believe that the system, as a whole, doesn't provide coverage for everyone, and some of the supporters also support malpractice reform and medicare payment reform. But despite these reasons to support health care reform, it is clear that it is too polarizing of an issue that there isn't a clear-cut opinion by Americans, as a whole, on whether it is good or bad, although the recent midterm elections here in the U.S. seem to indicate that most Americans are against health care reform.

But I am curious want all of you think about health care, in regards to whether it is a human right or privilege. Personally, despite evolving mostly into a conservative-libertarian, I'm still on the left with this issue. I didn't fully like the reform that was ultimately enacted last March, but I've maintained my belief that health care is a human entitlement and that a reform towards universal health care is needed in order to contribute to protecting the wellness of American citizens.

Please give me all of your opinions on this issue.

[555-04Q2]

No one has the right to anything. Everything has to be earned. Look after yourself, eat well and take out a medical insurance policy if you are concerned about your health later in life. I hate the way people want free healthcare at the cost of taxpayers as though it is their right, yet they are allowed to go and eat at McDonalds after a visit to the doctor. Pay for your own bloody McDonalds induced heart transplant.

[Retro Formula 1]

Basic healthcare is a right in my opinion. Emergency care and rehabilitation.

Most other things are the responsibility of the individual.

[Rollo]

The question of rights is irrelevant.

Insurance generally is most efficient when the insurance risk is spread over the largest number of insurable items. This holds true for motor cars, buildings, and even health care.
When insurance risk is spread over a broader population of items the per unit cost of insurance decreases; there is no broader population than the entire population.

[Retro Formula 1]

The question of rights is irrelevant.

Insurance generally is most efficient when the insurance risk is spread over the largest number of insurable items. This holds true for motor cars, buildings, and even health care.
When insurance risk is spread over a broader population of items the per unit cost of insurance decreases; there is no broader population than the entire population.

Should we insure a nation of Ford Ka or Ford GT?

Perhaps complimentary 3rd party and option to personally upgrade?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Not this discussion again?

We all agree that we disagree until someone claims someone else is a Nazi. That is how these sort of threads end up.

[markabilly]

Nazi.

Yeah, you know who I am talking about.


Besides this has all applicable principles have been discussed already here, just change it over to health care,
http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140720

and I am against anything that might put money in psuedo-doc gueistein's pockets

[markabilly]

Besides this has all applicable principles have been discussed already here, just change it over to health care,
http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140720

and I am against anything that might put money in psuedo-doc gueistein's pockets
to which I must add to the oil rationing thread:

Gluestink say, " Nazi, no I will not call you a nazi, that would be too good for whoever you are, esp. you markabutbilly, but I will call you,

[quote="glauistean"] a total and absolute idiot.


your posts are bordering on the schizophrenic. You in fact may fall into the various subtypes.


You are a deluded self loathing person , unable to converse intelligently with anyone.

You then resort to name calling. Lest you believe I am calling you names as I write this , I am not.

By the way, are you a clean person? Do you wash, shave(if you are a man) ,brush your teeth? Do you fall into the blunt or flat areas of the disease.


[quote]

To which Easy adds, "Hey Gluestem, come over here a minute and close your eyes, I got you a big suprize"

nothing like a well mannered objective debate among "citizens"

okay now you can close the oil rationing thread and this one :D

[Mark in Oshawa]

Ya...not going there on this one....we had this argument last year, and it got ugly after a while....

[Bob Riebe]

Health care-- health, is the responsibility of the individual. If one gets sick, the one is responsible for preventing that.
Call it "health care" is a farce as it has nothing to with health.

Doctoring costs-- are too high, and the problems with insurance companies started when citizens started to scam the insurance companies
People abusing insurance policies created the monster they are now crying about.

The general cluster f--k we have now is the result of the government sticking its nose where it does not belong (with the exception of veteran care, who should have apolicy that would put to shame the golden egg, those inside the belt-way have.)

There are no God given rights, and the only rights U.S. citizens have are listed in a Constitution.

[Eki]

It's a right. Not helping the people in need is a crime, just like running away from an accident scene without helping the victims is a crime.

[Eki]

It's a right. Not helping the people in need is a crime, just like running away from an accident scene without helping the victims is a crime (at least here in Finland it is).

[Bob Riebe]

It's a right. Not helping the people in need is a crime, just like running away from an accident scene without helping the victims is a crime.
Just like helping an accident victim in the U.S., can result in one getting sued if the assistance rendered, without regard to intent when rendered, causes the putz who had the accident, supposed physical or psychological problems later on.
Choice pull the "victim' from the vehicle, with possible nerve damage, or let the putz drown.
If the "victim" is crippled, to any degree, you can bet his/her rescuer will get sued.

[Eki]

Just like helping an accident victim in the U.S., can result in one getting sued if the assistance rendered, without regard to intent when rendered, causes the putz who had the accident, supposed physical or psychological problems later on.
Choice pull the "victim' from the vehicle, with possible nerve damage, or let the putz drown.
If the "victim" is crippled, to any degree, you can bet his/her rescuer will get sued.
If you don't know what you're doing, you could at least call an ambulance. Or is that too difficult for you?

[Bob Riebe]

If you don't know what you're doing, you could at least call an ambulance. Or is that too difficult for you?
So they can load up the corpse?

[Eki]

So they can load up the corpse?
Wouldn't even that be nicer than to let it rot there at the accident scene?

[Eki]

No, it's better to let it lie and turn into fertilizer. Then we can ship it overseas to help feed the starving masses.
Wouldn't it be better to ship it before it rots? Cannibalism is less wasteful.

[Bob Riebe]

Wouldn't even that be nicer than to let it rot there at the accident scene?
I couldn't care either way, as long as I do not get sued for trying to render assistance.

[ICWS]

Basic healthcare is a right in my opinion. Emergency care and rehabilitation.

Most other things are the responsibility of the individual.

I agree with your post moreso than the other ones so far.

Yes, I think health care is an entitlement, to those who are citizens of this country, and should be built around the principle of universal coverage for these citizens. I do understand that many of you don't think it is a right because that would allow people to live unhealthy lives and cause taxpayers to pay more for these people to keep living that way. But I agree with Skc, and still think the basic needs of health care (emergency care, rehab, etc.) should still be there for every citizen. Everything else that basic health care doesn't provide can be for those who earn it.

I genuinely believe that Americans wouldn't be so critical of the concept of universal health care if the government was smarter with how they spend taxpayers' money. For example, if the U.S. wasn't involved in and continuing these military operations in the Middle East, one trillion dollars could've been saved for something like paying for universal health care. Actually, the ultimate problem with America's military is that the U.S. military is too large and is placed in some areas that they don't need to be. The U.S. government seems to think that the Cold War is still going on, so they think they need to spend lots of money and expand the size of the military to stop a non-existing threat. This is one of the biggest wastes of taxpayers' money, in my opinion. I don't think the U.S. should adopt an isolationist approach with where it stands in the world, but the U.S. really should severly cut back on how much it spends on its military, and move that money towards trying to achieve things like bringing about universal basic health care.

[ICWS]

It's a right. Not helping the people in need is a crime, just like running away from an accident scene without helping the victims is a crime.

I agree with your perspective as well.

[markabilly]

Wouldn't it be better to ship it before it rots? Cannibalism is less wasteful.
Got to agree with Eki on this one


Think of all the starving people in Finnland


Anyway, many Jews and Moslems refuse to eat human flesh, cause it is alleged to taste like pork.
So shipping to the middle east in trade for oil and such probably would not be worth the cost.
However, it depends upon whether baked or fried.
When baked it tastes like pork, but when fried, it tastes like chicken.




Nevertheless, important questions remain:

Do cannibals only eat people they like, or will they eat anybody?

Is it rude to leave the table until everyone is eaten?

Do clowns taste funny?

Are divorced women bitter compared to happily married women?

Are you a racist because you only eat white people and not black people?

Is it true that politicans are more difficult to clean before eating?

But I ask you, is there no higher and more noble thing you can do than to serve your fellow man?


:vader:

[Roamy]

One big problem in this country are the tort laws which award unrealistic money to people who have been mistreated. But inasmuch as congress is made up of worthless attorneys we have little chance of correcting this horrendous law which causes the insurance of a doctor to go off the chart.

most attorneys are the scrooge of the earth

[markabilly]

One big problem in this country are the tort laws which award unrealistic money to people who have been mistreated. But inasmuch as congress is made up of worthless attorneys we have little chance of correcting this horrendous law which causes the insurance of a doctor to go off the chart.

most attorneys are the scrooge of the earth
Yes, and I fear we will be stuck forever with them as the word gets out that even when served with lots of BBQ sauce, they taste like dirt :(

[Eki]

Yes, and I fear we will be stuck forever with them as the word gets out that even when served with lots of BBQ sauce, they taste like dirt :(
I think they taste more like fertilizer. Unfortunately they are still costly to ship, since they demand to travel in first class.

[beachgirl]

One big problem in this country are the tort laws which award unrealistic money to people who have been mistreated. But inasmuch as congress is made up of worthless attorneys we have little chance of correcting this horrendous law which causes the insurance of a doctor to go off the chart.

most attorneys are the scrooge of the earth

Bingo! We have the winner.

[hilaryaustin]

Bingo! We have the winner.

And this attorneys can even create some alibi so that they can still leach more money. And arrive to the point were in all they did was to dispense more money and make your expenses blow.

It is our duty to take care of our health. A good health is very important to live healthy and long life. Regularly exercising , doing Yoga and eating healthy food in diet is the best way and very effective in gaining good health.

[SGWilko]

Certain aspects of the 'night watchman state' should be a right;

Fire and police services. Emergency treatment (ambulance recovery and life saving treatment as a result of the accident).

Everything else healthcare wise ought to be supplied by a private medical cover.

[ioan]

No one has the right to anything.

Everyone has the right to life.

[ioan]

most attorneys are the scrooge of the earth

That I agree with.

[monadvspec]

I did not see this poster or a reference to the thread you mentioned. I'm curious since I am in the medical field and wondered about others coming to these forums. Actually, truth be told I came here to view articles on Autosport.
Any help would be appreciated.
I will add my two cents, pennies, euro or whatever is taken when I get a chance.

This was supposed to appear under a post about a pseudo doc and references to him in two posts. I am curious as to what type of docs come to these forums. Do they just come here or like me do they really go to motor sport and view these sites later.

That is a right of a citizen and the government should be there when it comes to helping the person physically or mentally.
That should be like that a few countries are already doing it but should be arranged all over the world.

[D-Type]

When I'm in good health I feel that my National Insurance contributions are poor value for money. And why should I pay more than somebody else because I work harder and earn more?
But if I'm ill or one of my family is ill we say "Thank heavens we have a National Health Service in Britain!"

But on another note. I recently had a bump in a supermarket car park when a driver backed out of a parking bay into the side of my car. The speed of neither vehicle could have been more than 5 mph. Just in case there were problems with recovering costs from the other driver or her insurance company I reported the accident to my insurance company (on a Sunday). They took details and said a colleague would call 'on Monday' . On Monday I received a call from a solicitor who is associated with the insurance company and I described the accident a second time. He said there might be a chance of a whiplash injury and that I might be in line for a £4000 to £5000 payment. I reiterated that neither car was doing more than 5mph so whiplash was highly unlikely. He asked me to trya couple of exercises 'just in case' ie move my head from side to side and see if it hurt at all. OK fair enough. But since then I have received at least FIVE calls all saying "WE are ringing about your potential whiplash case ..." Clearly there must be healthy fees in it for them. And the young lady's insurance company would have footed the bill and all our premiums will go up again next year. That is the problem with insurance-funded health care: that it encourages fraudulent claims, both from individuals and from unscrupulous hospitals charging, say, £20 a time for administering drugs even if it's simply a couple of paracetamol.

Health care is a right of every person. The Government should make reforms for the health care to improve the standard of the health and life in all states.