BRC to be two wheel drive only in 2012

[sal]

PRESS RELEASE For Immediate release 04/01/11
Dulux Trade MSA British Rally Championship

BRC spells out its future from 2012
Spelling out the vision for the future, UK Rally, organisers of the Dulux Trade MSA British Rally Championship have confirmed that the series will be open to two wheel drive cars only from 2012 onwards. The move is designed to re-establish and lower the cost base for competitors, engage with UK Car Manufacturers and Importers and put the BRC on a firm footing for the next five years.
The 2012 Championship will solely focus on competition with homologated two wheel drive cars up to two litre engine capacity, as well as cars that are still homologated in groups A & N, it includes the new breed of Group R class cars currently produced by Renault, Peugeot, Suzuki, Ford and Citroën. Following discussions with manufacturers it is also known that other marques are expected to homologate two wheel drive cars in 2011 these include Mini and Skoda.
Manufacturer based single make series will continue to feature as the foundation and ongoing discussions about incentives include works-drive type prizes similar to those run successfully in the past by Peugeot UK and Mitsubishi GB.
The series will retain its international status which has been successful in attracting foreign competitors from all over the world. The MSA British Rally Championship for drivers and co-drivers will be fought out in overall honours from qualifying international rallies limited to two wheel drive cars. The British Teams Championship will once again become a manufacturer and model featured series, which as well as being open to factory teams will encourage participation from privately owned motorsport outfits running their own works supported cars.
The British Junior Championship will be focused on the Rally 1 class, a manufacturer backed one make series, where budding juniors will be able to showcase their talent and incentives will be provided so that natural progression up the Group R categories is realised.
Contracts that are already in place for 2012 include Sky Sports who will continue to showcase the series with high definition technology. Pirelli will continue to provide the control tyres and with it, the coveted Star Driver programme.
“We are at a cusp in the sport and firm leadership is required. Having spent months in discussions with competitors, teams, car manufacturers and organisers, I believe this is the future for the British Rally Championship. With the loss of Group N, retaining four wheel drive cars and the rising costs attributed to that type of car is just unsustainable here in the UK.
2011 will be the final year for the four wheel drive, Group N and Super 2000 cars in the BRC. We have not made it a secret that we were going to move in this direction but with competitors looking at significant investments, I couldn’t delay the announcement any longer. One season notice gives current owners time to realise their investment whilst giving prospective purchasers a choice.
Our focus on creating a world renowned series for potential rally champions, keeping a lid on the costs, providing good competition, camaraderie and a place where competitors have ambition to compete using the very best events in the UK, remains resolute.”
For more information on the Dulux Trade MSA British Rally Championship visit http://www.rallybrc.co.uk
ENDS


Discuss!!!!

[Mirek]

Hmm, I don't think that it's good decision. To have lower cost is for sure one way to attract more competitors but in my opinion more public interest is more important. And it's quite impossible to make more people watching and enjoying rally with 2WD FWD cars (there are almost no modern RWD with FIA homologation). These cars are too slow and boring in places where general public is watching like hairpins or junctions.

[Allyc85]

Hmm, I don't think that it's good decision. To have lower cost is for sure one way to attract more competitors but in my opinion more public interest is more important. And it's quite impossible to make more people watching and enjoying rally with 2WD FWD cars (there are almost no modern RWD with FIA homologation). These cars are too slow and boring in places where general public is watching like hairpins or junctions.

I think youve summed it up pretty well, I think rallying in this country will slip even further off the radar with this decision.

[Wasted Talent]

At first glance it might be a case of "Oh, no", but thinking more about it, then it does make some sense. Cars will be more affordable, and probably cheaper to run, and could lead to renegotiation of Forestry Commission charges as they will be a lot less damaging (again reducing costs).

Okay they will not be as fast, but there again how many drivers touch the potential of 4wd cars? Same number could make fwd reasonable to watch, and there again how long is it since spectators have been present in large numbers on BRC rounds??

WT

[cardy]

what a joke the brc once was a stepping stone to the wrc not anymore and no good to watch or tv it was bad enough banning wrc car and going to a two make championship ie subaru and mitsubishi but banning 4wd when all the big team are building s2000 car JOKE!!!!!

[Allyc85]

At first glance it might be a case of "Oh, no", but thinking more about it, then it does make some sense. Cars will be more affordable, and probably cheaper to run, and could lead to renegotiation of Forestry Commission charges as they will be a lot less damaging (again reducing costs).

Okay they will not be as fast, but there again how many drivers touch the potential of 4wd cars? Same number could make fwd reasonable to watch, and there again how long is it since spectators have been present in large numbers on BRC rounds??

WT

The problem is drivers are already short of money and to go rallying the need money from sponsors and they wont want to invest in a championship that isnt watched by anyone!

I like the s1600 cars like the Swift and the C2 but they just dont capture the general publics attention like a fast WRC car being driven hard.

[Bobcat]

This is great only for the French lobby with R3 cars.

[Bruce D]

Well I remember the Formula 2 years been very good, although they got too expensive with the kit cars. Maybe it's not a bad move.

[macksrallye]

And it's quite impossible to make more people watching and enjoying rally with 2WD FWD cars (there are almost no modern RWD with FIA homologation). These cars are too slow and boring in places where general public is watching like hairpins or junctions.

This is where the organsisers need to take note & find sections of road that lend themselves to this type of car & get spectators to go there. Something where you hear these things echo through the forests before they get into view & when the do come into view the driver is 100% commited so they don't lose any time.

[Grant_RSA]

i dont usually read this thread, but it caught my eye when i saw the subject line.

I find it interesting that the BRC need to go to these lengths, when a country in deep darkest Africa can run what looks like 20 S2000 cars this year. Then again we probably dont have the numbers of competitors, so is most likely cancels out those 20 cars.

As mentioned above i dont really follow the BRC, but cant imagine there are to many top drivers who will relish stepping into a 2wd after years of 4wd, its sad what the world economy is doing to the sport.

[Martin Liddle]

This is where the organsisers need to take note & find sections of road that lend themselves to this type of car & get spectators to go there.

I take it that you are not familiar with the ever increasing difficulties of organising rallies in the UK?

[MrJan]

This is where the organsisers need to take note & find sections of road that lend themselves to this type of car & get spectators to go there.

:laugh: Take it you haven't been to a rally in Britain recently, organisers are lucky to find a venue at all and they're losing venues all the time.

[Allyc85]

So what cars are we going to see in britains "premier rally" series? R2 Fiestas and Clios?

If theres a date clash between the BRC and BTRDA I know which one id be going to see!

[macksrallye]

I take it that you are not familiar with the ever increasing difficulties of organising rallies in the UK?

No... but I am familiar with organising Rallies in Australia where not only are our Forests being taken away from underneath us (by new government legislation let alone anything else) but the ever increasing struggle to find officials means we have to use some very inventive ways of getting competative km's in an event before we've even considered spectator's/service parks/accomodation. Don't worry, it's a struggle everywhere but if the organisers are serious about making it work they will find a way to do it!

If... and it's a very big IF, the manufacturers start to get behind it you will find good drivers in these cars. Good drivers trying to prove a point which is always a good recipe for some entertaining competition. Remember rallying is about pure speed to the average spectator, they want spectacle, why else would so many people want to see a crash? If they get the recipe right this might work.

[urabus-denoS2000]

I am really shocked ba the idiocy of this idea ...

Can those organizers give me one positive side of this idea , except for "smaller costs" ??? I believe that the only remotely attractive modern 2WD car is the Clio R3 and that is only in fast parts ? Actually , including the R2 cars , that is the only one which actually HAS a sound ...

Honestly , my British friends , if my destiny for the next few year is to watch a 207 R3T struggling to pass a harpin and wearing number 1 on its doors , I would switch to Nascar ... At least those cars have a sound


I didn't mention S1600 because they are an outdated and expensive class , doubt they will make a significant impact on this "premiere" championship ...

[HaCo]

At first glance it might be a case of "Oh, no", but thinking more about it, then it does make some sense. Cars will be more affordable, and probably cheaper to run, and could lead to renegotiation of Forestry Commission charges as they will be a lot less damaging (again reducing costs).

Okay they will not be as fast, but there again how many drivers touch the potential of 4wd cars? Same number could make fwd reasonable to watch, and there again how long is it since spectators have been present in large numbers on BRC rounds??

WT

I'm sharing your opinion.

[RAS007]

Hmm, I don't think that it's good decision. To have lower cost is for sure one way to attract more competitors but in my opinion more public interest is more important. And it's quite impossible to make more people watching and enjoying rally with 2WD FWD cars (there are almost no modern RWD with FIA homologation). These cars are too slow and boring in places where general public is watching like hairpins or junctions.

+1

This is a terrible decsion. F2 was a total joke before. So, so boring.

[Sulland]

This post was of course ment for this thread:

Strange that UK do not follow the R Class concept in total and include R4 as the top class.
Do anyone know why ?

The UK have gone in this direction once before, in the 90s or something, where F2 kit cars was top class - and that was not a huge success if I remember correct.

[sal]

The Group A7 kit car era of the mid 90s was one of the times when there were more "factory" teams in the BRC than at any other ironically!

I have my own thoughts on this move and will post them in due course but wanted some perspective from other members especially in other parts of the world first and your reactions have been very intersting so far!

[MrJan]

While the move to 2wd doesn't exactly excite me, I feel that they have to do something. The series is floundering, dying, and they need to make it interesting. They're stuck really, too many people moaning that costs are too high (meaning limited numbers at the top) and others moaning when they try something different. IMO this won't really cut costs but the only way to tell if it helps increase entries will be to try it.

[Sulland]

I understand the background for why, but; The plan would be much better if the R4 class would be top of the pops. You need to give the drivers the option to get 4wd practice, as long as that is the level of P/S/WRC.

[Allyc85]

I would love WRC cars in the BRC, but in reality I think we should go back to proper group N as what we have now must be nothing like it!

They should be your normal impreza/evo/anything else 4wd, toughened up for rallying and that is all! That way the drivers gain experience and costs would surely be reduced.

[BDunnell]

Let's look back to when the British championship was at its most successful in the past. The category A7/Formula 2 era was very good indeed, I grant, but I would never put it on a pedestal alongside the Open championship circa 1980-85. Of course, no-one can expect any of the WRC works teams to run a full British championship programme as Audi did for much of that period, but there is one important comparison to be made. In that period, and indeed for several years before and after, the British series ran to the same technical regulations as did the world championship. The front-runners in Britain were to be found driving the same sort of Escorts, Ascona and Manta 400s, Quattros and the like as could be found in the world series. There was a ready supply of such cars, and in Britain their drivers could compete against, and beat, the best international drivers. Now, while none of the top British drivers of that era such as Jimmy McRae, Tony Pond and Malcolm Wilson achieved huge success internationally, it could be argued that they didn't need to, because the strength of the British championship and the level of competition was so high. The talent of these drivers and others was not in doubt — they proved it time and again when competing against the likes of Mikkola, Toivonen and Blomqvist on British soil.

Since that era, sadly, we have seen costs rising to such an extent that it is no longer practical for there to exist that parity between the front-running cars in domestic and world championships. This, I feel, is a huge shame and one of the reasons why domestic rally series such as that in Britain have been in such decline. Is it any coincidence, either, that Britain's world-class rally drivers all competed in the British series during the period when it was contested using the same sort of equipment as was the world championship?

[Mirek]

I would be careful with comparison to F2 times. All top F2 cars were very expensive specially built machines.Sometimes even more advanced than WRC cars.

[Bruce D]

Fair enough but the concept of 2wd wasn't boring. Certainly they sounded brilliant, especially in the forests. By comparison I think these 4wd N4 cars are seriously boring as they are so quiet and hardly look like they're going quickly. Now along comes a S2000 car that sounds awesome and it looks quicker, meanwhile its setting similar times.

Also I think it depends on the level of competition in the series. During the F2 era there were a few manufacturers battling it out and stage times were very close so everyone was pushing very hard. Similar thing in our SA championship where we have S2000 and the top 5 in any stage are less than 10sec apart so everyone is pushing to the max. From the bits that I've seen of the BRC these days it doesn't look very interesting at all.

[BDunnell]

Fair enough but the concept of 2wd wasn't boring. Certainly they sounded brilliant, especially in the forests. By comparison I think these 4wd N4 cars are seriously boring as they are so quiet and hardly look like they're going quickly. Now along comes a S2000 car that sounds awesome and it looks quicker, meanwhile its setting similar times.

I agree. I would suggest that very few people beyond those competing have ever been interested in Group N.

[MrJan]

I agree. I would suggest that very few people beyond those competing have ever been interested in Group N.

Indeed. Endless streams of Evos and Imprezas can get very, very tedious unless the driver is really going for it. 2WD just means that you need to work harder to find a decent place to watch, and that's part of the fun IMO.

[Mirek]

2WD just means that you need to work harder to find a decent place to watch, and that's part of the fun IMO.

For hardcore fans it's true. But it doesn't work in making crowds, media and sponsors interested.

[BDunnell]

For hardcore fans it's true. But it doesn't work in making crowds, media and sponsors interested.

The two-wheel-drive Sunbeam Lotuses, Escorts, Asconas, Mantas, 037s and so on seemed to manage to do so.

[BDunnell]

Indeed. Endless streams of Evos and Imprezas can get very, very tedious unless the driver is really going for it.

It's always been the case. In 1989, even Pentti Airikkala in a Group N Galant VR-4 and Colin McRae in a Group N Sierra Cosworth never really got the pulse racing. Yet some of the most spectacular drives one could ever hope to see — Per Eklund in a Corolla GT on the 1983 Mintex International, Jean Ragnotti in the R11 Turbo on the 1987 Portuguese Rally, Airikkala in a Kadett GSi on the Manx in 1987, and of course Stig Blomqvist in the Skoda Felicia on the 1996 RAC, have been in underpowered front-wheel-drive machinery.

[Mirek]

The two-wheel-drive Sunbeam Lotuses, Escorts, Asconas, Mantas, 037s and so on seemed to manage to do so.

Yes, but those were RWD. You don't have modern FIA homologated RWD cars useful on gravel.

[HaCo]

I think and hope that a good competition will automatically bring nice passages, if everybody is pushing, it should be good to watch, also in 2WD.
There is almost no use in having a top class with only 2-3 contenders (like in Belgium). It's fun to watch because it are monsters of cars, but it has much less to do with competition and sport.
That's how I see it.

[urabus-denoS2000]

Fair enough but the concept of 2wd wasn't boring. Certainly they sounded brilliant, especially in the forests. By comparison I think these 4wd N4 cars are seriously boring as they are so quiet and hardly look like they're going quickly. Now along comes a S2000 car that sounds awesome and it looks quicker, meanwhile its setting similar times.




This is true for F2 cars , but name one attractive modern FWD car besides S1600 . Trust me , I have seen ALL of them many times in action and I just can't imagine they would make crowds and collect media and sponsors . Ony cars remotely attractive are the Clio R3 and the very rare Civic R3 ...

[urabus-denoS2000]

I think and hope that a good competition will automatically bring nice passages, if everybody is pushing, it should be good to watch, also in 2WD.
There is almost no use in having a top class with only 2-3 contenders (like in Belgium). It's fun to watch because it are monsters of cars, but it has much less to do with competition and sport.
That's how I see it.

I guarantee you that your championship wouldn't be nearly as developed if Snijers would drive a 207 R3T , Melissa a Megane N4 and Tsjoen a DS3 R3 instead of WRCs...

[Martin Liddle]

The UK have gone in this direction once before, in the 90s or something, where F2 kit cars was top class - and that was not a huge success if I remember correct.

I don't think your memory is correct. It was a successful era with close competition between several works teams. It only ended when one manufacturer lobbied hard for a 4WD formula (becuase they happened to have such a car and it wasn't very competitive at WRC level) and then withdrew from rallying before the next season.

[Bobcat]

I would love WRC cars in the BRC, but in reality I think we should go back to proper group N as what we have now must be nothing like it!

They should be your normal impreza/evo/anything else 4wd, toughened up for rallying and that is all! That way the drivers gain experience and costs would surely be reduced.

+1

[Bruce D]

This is true for F2 cars , but name one attractive modern FWD car besides S1600 . Trust me , I have seen ALL of them many times in action and I just can't imagine they would make crowds and collect media and sponsors . Ony cars remotely attractive are the Clio R3 and the very rare Civic R3 ...

Very good point, and I hardly think a S1600 car is very spectacular either to be honest. And unfortunately the likelihood is that they will be 1600cc machines not 2000cc machines cos thats the general way manufacturers are going. Actually a 1600cc turbo FWD machine could be interesting but controlling the wheelspin from the torque could be a major issue. Which would mean fancy diffs and traction control, and there goes the cost already.

[BDunnell]

Very good point, and I hardly think a S1600 car is very spectacular either to be honest. And unfortunately the likelihood is that they will be 1600cc machines not 2000cc machines cos thats the general way manufacturers are going. Actually a 1600cc turbo FWD machine could be interesting but controlling the wheelspin from the torque could be a major issue. Which would mean fancy diffs and traction control, and there goes the cost already.

And therein lies the problem — and why the course the British championship is taking is probably by far the most sensible one open to it, given the complete financial inaccessibility of WRC cars to teams running in national championships. Jean Todt has performed very well so far at the FIA, and I very much hope he carries on in this manner — not least by addressing this important topic. National championships need to be able to run top-line equipment.

[Daniel]

Well I remember the Formula 2 years been very good, although they got too expensive with the kit cars. Maybe it's not a bad move.

I think for this reason alone it's something that at least needs to be tried and who knows, it may work very well.

[Spud]

Im just seeing this update in my email and I ask myself what kind of lunacy is this??? What is modern rallying without at least 4WD?? I know the proponents of this new system will say that the costs will be severely reduced but are they really??? The fact is folks, that motorsport at BRC level or any other 'high' level is bound to be expensive. Racing costs money. When the championship reverts to 2WD in 2012 manufacturers and teams will spend the maximum their budgets allow in order to capitalise on the rules. Lets face it folks, the 'big' teams are almost always going to win because they command greater resources.....if you havent got alot of money, then you havent got enough. Simple. I think its a bad idea, could someone explain this utter rubbish to me????

[Bolton Midnight]

To get it back to the halcyon days of Vatanen/J McRae/Mikkola etc you need factory teams, ditto the next best era of the F2 teams Head/Higgins/Rowe etc.

As more car manufacturers make FWD cars then it makes sense to target them.

The BRC is not a road to WRC stardom, nothing is apart from shed loads of money and some ability.

Picking crappy events like the Sunseeker hardly bring anything to the series but it's jobs for the boys in'it.

Anyone who found the F2 battles of the likes of Evans/Rowe boring maybe better to follow drifting or banger racing.

[Spud]

I hear and appreciate the point you make concerning 2WD and driving talent but my question is...what abt 4WD?? and turbos?? Arent manufacturers shifting(however slowly) to turbos for efficiency and performance from their engines?? Isnt 4WD a proven technology in terms of its safety??? Why arent these options being explored all over in rallying, which is supposed to 'improve the breed'??? Ive got nothing against 2WD, I just dont think its the answer for rallying in the 21st century.....

[BDunnell]

I hear and appreciate the point you make concerning 2WD and driving talent but my question is...what abt 4WD?? and turbos?? Arent manufacturers shifting(however slowly) to turbos for efficiency and performance from their engines?? Isnt 4WD a proven technology in terms of its safety??? Why arent these options being explored all over in rallying, which is supposed to 'improve the breed'??? Ive got nothing against 2WD, I just dont think its the answer for rallying in the 21st century.....

Well, as I said earlier, the problem is the exorbitant cost of four-wheel-drive equipment these days. This is why I think the BRC has probably chosen the best option given the circumstances, but I don't consider it the best option for the championship's future status, which will never amount to anything without a combination of good events, drivers people may have heard of, and what I'd call 'worthwhile' cars — a vague way of putting it, I know, but the best I can come up with. Another reason F2 worked for me as a BRC formula was the fact of there being an FIA cup for such cars, meaning there was at least some link between what you saw on British rallies and World Championship events.

[Allyc85]

Looking at the current Sunseeker entry list you could almost think that the BRC is 2wd this year!

Anyone know of any top entries still to enter and the Keith Cronin situation?

[sal]

Thats just changed with Greer now entered in a Fabia S2000

[Mirek]

Do You know if it's just one shot (maybe because the event is sponsored by Škoda UK) or if it's larger program?

[sal]

Mirek he's bought the car which is ex Sandell so will be doing the BRC and other events with it.

Chris

[Mirek]

Thank You!

[Andy_L]

I must say I like the idea of a 2WD only series.

What's happening to BRC here sounds a lot like what happened to the BTCC 20 years ago with the introduction of SuperTouring. Mainly two things:
- Flattening the class structure
- Homogenizing the cars within one class

And from my (limited) experience that means addressing two of points that create a lot of frustration for drivers and fans alike in rallying. Having too many classes makes for small and not very competitive class battles and complicated viewing for the fans, and pressing cars with very different concepts into one class doesn't have a good effect on the competitiveness of a class either. It's pretty much the same thing here in Germany - The Evo/WRX-teams complain about getting slaughtered by the Porsches, the Porsches complain about getting slaughtered by the S2000s and the S2000s complain about a lack of credible oppossition. In the end everybody loses. And when you separate them, you'll end up with relatively small classes again.

But when you only have very few classes, with a very narrow technical ruleset, you might end up with competitive and well-subscribed classes.

So, I really could see this having a similar effect on rallying in Great Britain as Supertouring had on touring car racing - what it takes, though, is a certain degree of manufacturer support. If the powers that be can find that, this rule change might be a very good thing and a model for some other European series.

[urabus-denoS2000]

I must say I like the idea of a 2WD only series.

What's happening to BRC here sounds a lot like what happened to the BTCC 20 years ago with the introduction of SuperTouring. Mainly two things:
- Flattening the class structure
- Homogenizing the cars within one class

And from my (limited) experience that means addressing two of points that create a lot of frustration for drivers and fans alike in rallying. Having too many classes makes for small and not very competitive class battles and complicated viewing for the fans, and pressing cars with very different concepts into one class doesn't have a good effect on the competitiveness of a class either. It's pretty much the same thing here in Germany - The Evo/WRX-teams complain about getting slaughtered by the Porsches, the Porsches complain about getting slaughtered by the S2000s and the S2000s complain about a lack of credible oppossition. In the end everybody loses. And when you separate them, you'll end up with relatively small classes again.

But when you only have very few classes, with a very narrow technical ruleset, you might end up with competitive and well-subscribed classes.

So, I really could see this having a similar effect on rallying in Great Britain as Supertouring had on touring car racing - what it takes, though, is a certain degree of manufacturer support. If the powers that be can find that, this rule change might be a very good thing and a model for some other European series.

BTCC changed to a very attractive class with Super Touring , which provided great competition and therefore fights . This move replaces already boring cras ( exception Breen's Fiesta S2000 ) with even more dull cars on gravel ...

[Andy_L]

BTCC changed to a very attractive class with Super Touring , which provided great competition and therefore fights . This move replaces already boring cras ( exception Breen's Fiesta S2000 ) with even more dull cars on gravel ... Supertouring only became attractive over the years, though. I supposse it was quite a shock going from the firebreathing Turbo-Sierras to the relatively tame 2l rep-mobiles of the early ST-years. Too bad there weren't any internet forums around in the early 90s, would be interesting to read what the fans thought about that move back then.

[BDunnell]

Supertouring only became attractive over the years, though. I supposse it was quite a shock going from the firebreathing Turbo-Sierras to the relatively tame 2l rep-mobiles of the early ST-years. Too bad there weren't any internet forums around in the early 90s, would be interesting to read what the fans thought about that move back then.

Well, Tim Harvey was quoted at the time as saying 'If you want slow, close racing, there's always the Metro Challenge', and some drivers from the Cosworth era, like Mike Newman, basically decided not to compete any more after 1990 as they didn't find the two-litre cars sufficiently interesting. However, I think the two-litre class' racing in 1990, when it ran as the only other class apart from the Sierras, was suitably outstanding to convince the true enthusiast. I was watching some 1990 BTCC races on YouTube today, and was struck again by (a) how little action there was between the Cosworths compared with the M3s and Cavaliers, and (b) how the M3s and Cavaliers were able to mix it with the slower Sierras.

But we digress. I think your comparison is an interesting one, but there is a wider problem for the BRC. It has no public profile beyond the hard-core enthusiast. I probably couldn't name any current BRC driver, because I stopped following the series after the end of the Formula 2 era. The BTCC had excellent coverage when it made the switch and retained plenty of well-known drivers.

[Mirek]

Yes, I simply can't believe BRC can get public attention again with only 2WD cars with no traction. F2 Kit Cars were something special in it's time, even though they were 2WD, they still were expensive hi-tech and very loud beasts.

[BDunnell]

Yes, I simply can't believe BRC can get public attention again with only 2WD cars with no traction. F2 Kit Cars were something special in it's time, even though they were 2WD, they still were expensive hi-tech and very loud beasts.

That wasn't really what I meant, at least. It might have a chance with works cars and decent drivers; otherwise, no.

[AndyRAC]

It doesn't have a public profile!! And when even Rally fans can't work up much enthusiasm for it - you know it's in trouble!! I'd like to know what the Promoters are actually doing to promote the series - or maybe they've written it off as a 'bad job'.
It's sad the way it's gone - the F2 era was awesome, great looking, great sounding and really hard driven cars - doing proper events over at least 2 days. The SEAT Jim Clark Rally took over the whole of the town of Duns. A fantastic event!!
Now, quite a few are done in one day - that's not an International!!

[Daniel]

It doesn't have a public profile!! And when even Rally fans can't work up much enthusiasm for it - you know it's in trouble!! I'd like to know what the Promoters are actually doing to promote the series - or maybe they've written it off as a 'bad job'.
It's sad the way it's gone - the F2 era was awesome, great looking, great sounding and really hard driven cars - doing proper events over at least 2 days. The SEAT Jim Clark Rally took over the whole of the town of Duns. A fantastic event!!
Now, quite a few are done in one day - that's not an International!!

You have to wonder if the BRC at least needs a healthy WRC.

[BDunnell]

You have to wonder if the BRC at least needs a healthy WRC.

And there we come back to some of my points earlier in this thread.

[Steve Boyd]

You have to wonder if the BRC at least needs a healthy WRC.
The BRC was at its most healthy before the WRC became popular - maybe the BRC needs the WRC to be cancelled!

[BDunnell]

The BRC was at its most healthy before the WRC became popular - maybe the BRC needs the WRC to be cancelled!

I'm not sure the World Championship was any more 'popular' in, say, 2002, when the British series was certainly not healthy, than it was in 1983 when the British championship definitely was.

[Langdale Forest]

Looking at the entry list for the Trackrod Rally Yorkshire, there are only 4 drivers in the internationol rally with 4wd cars, there are more 4wd (and even WRC cars), in the Clubman event, so the 'village event' is probably better than the internatinol rally now.

[Mirek]

Heard that Pirelli Star Driver car will be Fabia R2.

[Allyc85]

Yep, so potentially the championship winner could end up in a car that is slower!

I think a much better prize would be a few selected international events as progression out of the BRC seems to be the main problem for drivers in this country.

[AndyRAC]

Yep, so potentially the championship winner could end up in a car that is slower!

I think a much better prize would be a few selected international events as progression out of the BRC seems to be the main problem for drivers in this country.

Yeah, can't disagree. Cronin has disappeared, what is Bogie going to do next year? I know he's doing the IRC Rally Scotland, but only in a GpN Lancer - which will be lucky to make the top10 looking at the entry.

[Allyc85]

Dont start me off on Cronin! How can someone be so blatently fast and keep up with WRC cars in a group N Evo not be able to get sponsorship?!

I was really disappointed to see that Bogie is in an Evo for IRC Scotland as it would have been a great chance to show what he could do after a brilliant year. I guess it just shows that rallying is sliding further and further off the radar in this country when nobody wants to take a chance and give him some money for an S2000 car.

[BDunnell]

Dont start me off on Cronin! How can someone be so blatently fast and keep up with WRC cars in a group N Evo not be able to get sponsorship?!

I was really disappointed to see that Bogie is in an Evo for IRC Scotland as it would have been a great chance to show what he could do after a brilliant year. I guess it just shows that rallying is sliding further and further off the radar in this country when nobody wants to take a chance and give him some money for an S2000 car.

And I must say that I have never heard of any of the individuals of whom you write. Largely my own fault, I know, but I simply can't bring myself to be interested any more. Are these people genuinely talented prospects?

[Allyc85]

Its hard to say the way the BRC is at the moment, but Cronin is a double champion who also rallied his evo over in Ireland on the tarmac and kept up with much faster machinery.

Bogie has just won the BRC and the Scottish Championship this year, in the BRC he beat 2 S2000 Skodas which we know are much quicker than group n cars.

[BDunnell]

Thank you.

In this case, what exactly do people here think is required to make British rallying, if not great, then a damn sight better again?

[AndyRAC]

That's the problem - how quick is Bogie??? We don't know, we think he's pretty quick, but he needs to be out in a S2000 on IRC events to show us. A GpN car is nowhere near good enough.
I went to the Trackrod, out of between 15-20 cars, only 3 were 4WD; Evans, Bogie & Barrable in the S2000 Skoda....

I'm sorry to say, you're probably right, Rallying is largely irrelevant to most of the country. Motorsport=F1......

[AndyRAC]

How long have you got?

[Bolton Midnight]

and not forgetting 2wd BTCC, maybe that is why BRC is going that way too just a thought.

[AndyRAC]

Thank you.

In this case, what exactly do people here think is required to make British rallying, if not great, then a damn sight better again?

Hmmmm, how long have you got???
Instead of short termism, think of the bigger picture.
I consider it as British Rallying's equivalent of the BTCC - yet compare the interest, press/TV coverage, etc.....(I know it's comparing apples & pairs, but still)

[BDunnell]

That's the problem - how quick is Bogie??? We don't know, we think he's pretty quick, but he needs to be out in a S2000 on IRC events to show us. A GpN car is nowhere near good enough.

I must say, I don't think Group N is a good stepping-stone to higher-level competition at all. But, given the small numbers of drivers from any background who have the prospect of getting a good WRC drive, what is?

Of course, none of this mattered when doing well in the British championship was just as much of an achievement as doing well on a WRC round.

[Bolton Midnight]

Go 2wd get manufactures back in it drop ****e events, get it on terrestrial tele

bish bosh

[BDunnell]

I consider it as British Rallying's equivalent of the BTCC - yet compare the interest, press/TV coverage, etc.....(I know it's comparing apples & pairs, but still)

BTCC has been well promoted, well-run with the exception of deteriorating driving standards (something that does seem to have been genuinely addressed since a low point was reached earlier this year) and arguments over technical regulations, and even when it was in the doldrums retained a decent public profile. None of that can be said of the BRC.

[AndyRAC]

Go 2wd get manufactures back in it drop ****e events, get it on terrestrial tele

bish bosh

Can't really disagree - though it will be 2WD next year. Agree about TV, however, whether terrestrial TV want it is another matter. As for the events - 1 day 80 miles events are not International! I can make an exception for Sunseeker as that is a well promoted event - but the other need to be 120m+ and 2 days.

[AndyRAC]

BTCC has been well promoted, well-run with the exception of deteriorating driving standards (something that does seem to have been genuinely addressed since a low point was reached earlier this year) and arguments over technical regulations, and even when it was in the doldrums retained a decent public profile. None of that can be said of the BRC.

Maybe it's just the sport of Rallying, but it seems to attract promoters who are clueless. I remember seeing adverts in car/Motorsport mags and MotorsTV for the BTCC. Don't remember the same for the BRC - it's shockingly promoted.

[BDunnell]

Maybe it's just the sport of Rallying, but it seems to attract promoters who are clueless. I remember seeing adverts in car/Motorsport mags and MotorsTV for the BTCC. Don't remember the same for the BRC - it's shockingly promoted.

One slight mitigating circumstance is the speed with which the BRC organisers suddenly found themselves with bugger all to promote. At least when the BTCC hit its lowest points in 2001 and 2005 it still had some big-name drivers, an unchanged calendar and (whether one liked the nature of that action) plenty of action to offer both the on-track spectators and TV viewers. The BRC found itself with virtually nothing in 2000, and then didn't happen at all in 2001.

[Bolton Midnight]

Can't really disagree - though it will be 2WD next year. Agree about TV, however, whether terrestrial TV want it is another matter. As for the events - 1 day 80 miles events are not International! I can make an exception for Sunseeker as that is a well promoted event - but the other need to be 120m+ and 2 days.

Sunseeker would be first to be dropped.

hype is no substitute for decent terrain and miles.

dump Sunseeker and include Scottish IRC, daft that Britain's premier championship doesn't have a gravel round N of the border.

[BDunnell]

Can't really disagree - though it will be 2WD next year. Agree about TV, however, whether terrestrial TV want it is another matter. As for the events - 1 day 80 miles events are not International! I can make an exception for Sunseeker as that is a well promoted event - but the other need to be 120m+ and 2 days.

TV will only be interested — quite rightly — if there's something to be interested in.

I agree completely about the events, though I will reserve judgment on the Sunseeker as I don't know enough about it. The old six-round British Open series was almost perfect, though I grant it would be impossible to return to that.

[Bolton Midnight]

TV will only be interested — quite rightly — if there's something to be interested in.

I agree completely about the events, though I will reserve judgment on the Sunseeker as I don't know enough about it. The old six-round British Open series was almost perfect, though I grant it would be impossible to return to that.

If they could get Ford, Vauxhall, Skoda, VW, Peugeot, Renault etc back with 2 wd cars then it would get television coverage, the manufactures would insist on it, it has to have the factory teams out without them it's dead.

[AndyRAC]

Sunseeker would be first to be dropped.

hype is no substitute for decent terrain and miles.

dump Sunseeker and include Scottish IRC, daft that Britain's premier championship doesn't have a gravel round N of the border.

Agree about the IRC Rally Scotland - fantastic event, great stages, great scenery....Why it has never been included is a crime.

[BDunnell]

If they could get Ford, Vauxhall, Skoda, VW, Peugeot, Renault etc back with 2 wd cars then it would get television coverage, the manufactures would insist on it, it has to have the factory teams out without them it's dead.

Or genuinely good quality privateer teams. The BTCC has plenty — WSR, Jordan, Motorbase, etc. Where are the equivalents in British rallying?

[BDunnell]

Agree about the IRC Rally Scotland - fantastic event, great stages, great scenery....Why it has never been included is a crime.

I recall that there was talk of once again including the RAC (as in the then Network Q) in the British championship when it wasn't a full WRC round in 1996. Sadly, it came to nothing. Has there ever even been talk of the IRC round forming part of the BRC?

[MJW]

And I must say that I have never heard of any of the individuals of whom you write. Largely my own fault, I know, but I simply can't bring myself to be interested any more. Are these people genuinely talented prospects?
Sadly no, I think Elfyn Evans (Gwyndaf Evans' son) has the talent but no real money. On talent I think he is the best chance for a future career driver from the British Isles. Breen is a rich kid. Bogie has been driving the family Metro 6R4 Group B car. Look how close Elfyn is to Breen today in France - then factor in Breen's experience of WRC events, this is Elfyn's 2nd ever rally outside GB! - Look at the times - if only Elfyn were French to qualify for FFSA backing or Finnish for Juohki to bankroll him.

[Bolton Midnight]

Agree about the IRC Rally Scotland - fantastic event, great stages, great scenery....Why it has never been included is a crime.

Not included because Sunseeker is - it's jobs for the boys like most things to do with MSA.


Or genuinely good quality privateer teams. The BTCC has plenty — WSR, Jordan, Motorbase, etc. Where are the equivalents in British rallying?

ProTec, TEG sport are good privateers but that isn't enough it MUST be proper factory teams.

[Bolton Midnight]

if only Elfyn were French to qualify for FFSA backing or Finnish for Juohki to bankroll him.

Indeed, but the MSA don't see it like that they want to keep our money for themselves, well got to have some bubbly at Pall Mall.

[MJW]

Elfyn Evans is not registered for WRC Academy but with Lemes' exclusion Elfyn would have been top Fiesta, as it is Alister Fisher won WRC ACADEMY, As things now stand Elfyn is top 2 wd car on WRC France, ahead of McCormack who is in an R3 DS3 and does French championship.

[Allyc85]

I saw Evans as course car on the Wyedean which was his first time in a 4wd and he absolutely flying and then seeing him on the Sunseeker a few weeks later confirmed to me that he has massive natural ability. Its just highly likely that he wont be able to get the funding he needs to compete on the world stage which is such a shame.

[AndyRAC]

I saw Evans as course car on the Wyedean which was his first time in a 4wd and he absolutely flying and then seeing him on the Sunseeker a few weeks later confirmed to me that he has massive natural ability. Its just highly likely that he wont be able to get the funding he needs to compete on the world stage which is such a shame.

Needs to change his name to Evansenen, same with Croninen, etc
I don't think the Finns are any better, they just get the opportunities....

[MJW]

17th o/a and top 2 wheel drive on only his 2nd event outside the British Isles (note not UK, to include his past rallies in RoI)

[Allyc85]

Says it all really!

If id have won that massive euro millions a couple months back id have setup a rally team just for up and coming drivers from the UK to show what they could do! And of course have a car for myself, even if I do know id be crap lol

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[Sulland]

spam attack on this thread.

[Mirek]

In the left lover corner of the post below users data there is a triangular icon used for reporting such garbage. Next time, please use it. I already reported these latest spams.

[sal]

Jukka Korhonen Elected 2012 Pirelli UK Star Driver :: PaddockTalk :: F1, Formula 1, NASCAR, IndyCar, MotoGP, ALMS, And More! (http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-179330.html)

Jukka Korhonen has won the Pirelli backed drive in a R2 Fabia in next years BRC proving you dont have to be from the UK or Ireland to win the drive. Not quite sure about this when we as a nation are struggling to get driver progression thru to the WRC and the Skoda UK birth is taken by a Scandanavian aswell however the best guy obviously got the gig. Will be interesting to see how the Fabia stacks up against the R3 competition in the BRC next year and this news may bring a few more overseas drivers into the championship aswell.

[Bolton Midnight]

Done just to make the BRC look good.

[Mirek]

Last weekend there was first gravel start for Fabia R2 in Italy in Ronde Balcone delle Marche. Elwis Chentre won it in 2WD. Full results here: Rally FICr (http://rally.ficr.it/tab_stagetimes.asp?p_Anno=2011&p_Codice=77&p_Manifestazione=8&p_Gara=1&p_ProvaSpeciale=4)

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[Sulland]

Are we or will we see any results of that Britain is going 2wd only?

- Higher numbers of drivers?
- New teams or constellations formed?
- Development of 2wd cars by british tuners?
- Development of British top drivers?
- Other

I also read on another forum that BRC would adopt the R-GT class in from 2013. Is there any truth in this?

[BDunnell]

Are we or will we see any results of that Britain is going 2wd only?

- Higher numbers of drivers?
- New teams or constellations formed?
- Development of 2wd cars by british tuners?
- Development of British top drivers?
- Other

A shame that no-one, including me, has taken notice of your post up to now.

I think it could be quite good news if the tech rules are the same as those in the IRC. Then, at least, the top-line cars in the British series will be the same as those run at the front in a major international series. I think this is always of major benefit to a national championship.

[sal]

Sadly I think the lack of responses to the previous post illustrate the general lack of interest in our "premier" series.

I think at best we can safely reply "other" to your questions...

IMO the fact that the BRC is run as standalone business with salaries of the BRC team etc being taken out of the entrants fees before even a wheel is turned in anger means that the motives for taking the series down this route have to be questioned. I dont think anyone in UK rallying truly believes in a "ladder of opportunity", at best the one we have now has no rungs. Works drives are hardly growing on trees at the moment and the most recent winners of the BRC have driven down career cul de sacs in their pursuit of the title.

The RACMSA has stopped well short of backing young drivers with hard cash like the FFSA etc and I know a lot of other competitors in the UK have expressed publicly that they dont see why their licence fee money should go to fund someonelses rallying. Therefore I'm not sure what someone who is looking to the BRC is hoping to achieve if they are from the UK. From overseas then perhaps its a different story...

[Steve Boyd]

I think it could be quite good news if the tech rules are the same as those in the IRC. Then, at least, the top-line cars in the British series will be the same as those run at the front in a major international series. I think this is always of major benefit to a national championship.
BRC rules have been the same as IRC for the last few years. In 2010 there was only one S2000 car (Breen/Fiesta). It started 5 out of 6 events. In 2011 there were three S2000 cars, Greer/Fabia (6 starts out of 6 events), Barrable/Fabia (3 starts out of 6 events) & Jones/MG (1 start out of 6 events). All the other 4WD cars have been N4, and there haven't been many of them. The opportunities have been there but there haven't been enough takers. Something needed to change to spice things up, maybe FWD will do it, after all there are those who look back on the BRC F2 era as being golden although I don't think that came close to the Gp4 days of the British Open Championship.

[BDunnell]

BRC rules have been the same as IRC for the last few years.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough, I think — I used 'are' in the sense of 'if they continue to be the same'. My apologies.


Something needed to change to spice things up, maybe FWD will do it, after all there are those who look back on the BRC F2 era as being golden although I don't think that came close to the Gp4 days of the British Open Championship.

Well, it was an outstanding period in comparison with what has followed, and in terms of strong manufacturer-backed entries. However, I agree with you. The like of those British Open series days we will surely never see again, for a great deal of the magic was provided by the chance to see leading overseas drivers competing against the top Brits. That's not about to be repeated.

[Coach 2]

I think it's very brave of BRC and try something new, when the sport obviously need a vitamin-injection.
Moreover, many people have mentioned that the most important thing you need to succeed in the rally, is money, not talent.
A championship in 2wd will not be cheap, but you can not as easily buy the results at the top if one is rich and has no talent.
The fact that the BRC choose 2wd should satisfy many who write on this forum.

[Sulland]

The fact that the BRC choose 2wd should satisfy many who write on this forum.

Yes, but I fear that many of those would like the driving pair of wheels to be in the back!

[BDunnell]

Yes, but I fear that many of those would like the driving pair of wheels to be in the back!

Not at all. This would clearly be impractical given the lack of RWD road cars. But I'd like to see variety — just as I'd like to see it in the WRC.

[Steve Boyd]

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough, I think — I used 'are' in the sense of 'if they continue to be the same'. My apologies.



Well, it was an outstanding period in comparison with what has followed, and in terms of strong manufacturer-backed entries. However, I agree with you. The like of those British Open series days we will surely never see again, for a great deal of the magic was provided by the chance to see leading overseas drivers competing against the top Brits. That's not about to be repeated.
I see what you mean now. It would have been great if there had been the entries to justify continuing with the rules as they were. If the change brings us back to anywhere near the F2 era then I think the decision will have been justified.
I do think we need to get away from the notion that the BRC is just a stepping stone to WRC, though. A valuable training ground, yes, but if you think winning the BRC will catapult you into WRC you need to think again. If there are half a dozen seats in WRC & drivers stay there 12 years then you only need one new driver every 2 years. With UK, Ireland, France, Spain, Italy, Norway, Sweden, Finland &c all producing contenders for that 'one vacancy every couple of years' then one BRC graduate every decade is beating the average. If the BRC can become a championship that both UK and foreign entrants find attractive & competitive then the next Burns or McRae will follow - but not that often!

[Sulland]

Would love to see a BMW 1 series coupe with R3T engine !!!

[BDunnell]

I do think we need to get away from the notion that the BRC is just a stepping stone to WRC, though.

I agree, but the problem is that in order for it to become anything other, it needs to again turn into a series of great importance in its own right. Time was, after all, when being British champion was an accolade in itself.

[Steve Boyd]

Exactly!

[Mirek]

Would love to see a BMW 1 series coupe with R3T engine !!!

Turbo engines are not really suitable for RWD cars. Without anti-lag it's very difficult to drive them and even with it I don't think it's the best You can use. Naturally aspirated unit or a one with supercharger is for sure better for RWD.

[janvanvurpa]

Turbo engines are not really suitable for RWD cars. Without anti-lag it's very difficult to drive them and even with it I don't think it's the best You can use. Naturally aspirated unit or a one with supercharger is for sure better for RWD.

Mirek, normally I look forward to read you posts, they seem well reasoned. Now this ^.....
When sized realistically power is early, and broad, and the whole point is to make it EASIER---more torque spread nicely is always easier than very peaky very high rpm n.a. motor (I build rally motors here in USA----have one one of out National Champignonskit for 2wd cars)

How can you say what you did?
And the way you say it it SEEMS that it could be misunderstood that you're say turbos are suitable for FWD, and again that seems confusing...

Too much Pils?

[Mirek]

What I meant is the turbo lag, especially with high pressure turbochargers without ALS.

[Sulland]

But on the other hand the drivers love driving RWD cars...... So maybe a cup will make them sell?

[Bolton Midnight]

Time was, after all, when being British champion was an accolade in itself.

By that I assume you think it isn't any more?

clueless

[tolis]

Tom Cave will drive a Citroen DS3 R3! He'll also do some international events!

[Tom206wrc]

Tom Cave will drive a Citroen DS3 R3! He'll also do some international events!


Desi Henry and Osian Pryce are on Rally Sunseeker 2012 entrylist with DS3 too :eek:

[Allyc85]

Sadly a very small entry for the first round of the championship.

https://www.rallies.info/webentry/2012/sunseeker/entries.php?type=u&combined=1

What a change from what used to be a great event :(

[AndyRAC]

Hmm, not great is it? A shame, the move to the BRC so far hasn't worked. During the ANCRO years, it was a 'must see' event - and I always drove down from the NorthWest to watch. Didn't last year, and I doubt I will this year.
Problem is, without the old ANCRO series, where can it go?

[Mirek]

Obviously the problem isn't in cost of cars, although maybe some people will suggest to use only R1 next year...

[MrJan]

Hmm, not great is it? A shame, the move to the BRC so far hasn't worked. During the ANCRO years, it was a 'must see' event - and I always drove down from the NorthWest to watch. Didn't last year, and I doubt I will this year.
Problem is, without the old ANCRO series, where can it go?

It's been crap for years. In recent seasons this rally has always clashed with a football game that I go to instead, this year I've got the weekend free but I'm still not sure that I'm going to bother.

[Tom206wrc]

Sadly a very small entry for the first round of the championship.

https://www.rallies.info/webentry/2012/sunseeker/entries.php?type=u&combined=1

What a change from what used to be a great event :(


Is it final entrylist :confused:

[Allyc85]

There will probably be a few more after the Wyedean this weekend, but looking at the cost of entering this event and so close to others I doubt it will be a huge amount more.

With the price of tickets and the shallow entry I doubt I will be going, which is a shame as its always been an event ive enjoyed with it not being too far away from where I live :(

[tolis]

Nice to see Justin Dale back in a Twingo R2!

[Tom206wrc]

Tom Cave and Elfyn Evans on entrylist of Sunseeker but with "TBA" car :confused:

[tolis]

Tom Cave and Elfyn Evans on entrylist of Sunseeker but with "TBA" car :confused:
Tom Cave will drive a DS3 Tom!

[Tom206wrc]

Tom Cave will drive a DS3 Tom!


But why "TBA" if we know the car already :confused:

[Tom206wrc]

When is seeded order entrylist of Sunseeker published :confused:

[mousti]

Tom is not sure about the car will be ready or not..

[Tom206wrc]

Great !!!! Jarko Nikara in DS3 at the Sunseeker :D

Finally a Fiesta R2 for Tom Cave :confused:

[banksy87]

Entry isnt massive but there is some good quality there.

The F2 category last year had some really close battles so hopefully some more of the same. Shame the DS3's will walk it!

Anyone know if Nikara plans to do the whole BRC? Money is on him if thats the case ;)

[Fly]

Keith Cronin back in business with a Twingo R1. Must be tough to start from 0 again. Or is it a one off?

Anyway, quality of the drivers list is good.

[Tom206wrc]

...
The F2 category last year had some really close battles so hopefully some more of the same. Shame the DS3's will walk it!


Why do you complain of that ??? :confused: you don't know how quickly Desi, Osian and Jarko will adapt to their new toy ;)

[urabus-denoS2000]

Why do you complain of that ??? :confused: you don't know how quickly Desi, Osian and Jarko will adapt to their new toy ;)

If it weren't a PSA car, I'm not sure you would say that....

BTW it's really a shame for the whole system to see the champion and the best driver from the isles in the last few years in a Twingo R1... I'm sure that even in Croatia a champion can find a competitive car, not to talk about a country that invented rallying....

[mousti]

Graham Coffey will sponsor the team of Chris Ingram - Joe Cruttenden ! =)

[mousti]

Great !!!! Jarko Nikara in DS3 at the Sunseeker :D

Finally a Fiesta R2 for Tom Cave :confused:
Car is not ready, he wasn't sure it would be ready. For Bulldog rally it'll be ready for sure.

His Impreza for other British and some Internationals rallies got ready last week.

[Hartusvuori]

Entry isnt massive but there is some good quality there.

The F2 category last year had some really close battles so hopefully some more of the same. Shame the DS3's will walk it!

Anyone know if Nikara plans to do the whole BRC? Money is on him if thats the case ;)

Nikara will do six BRC events in DS3 R3T.

[Allyc85]

:) You guys from abroad seem more interested in the BRC than the brits themselves! Are any of you guys coming over for to watch a few events?

[MrJan]

:) You guys from abroad seem more interested in the BRC than the brits themselves!

I was surprised at that too! Sunseeker is a relatively close rally for me but I'm still not going to bother, I'd rather save my money for Epynt in a couple of weeks.

[Tom206wrc]

Nikara will do six BRC events in DS3 R3T.

Would be fine to see him in Var on that car too(end of season)...the best european drivers in DS3 are often invited to run the last round of french tarmac championship :D

[mousti]

:) You guys from abroad seem more interested in the BRC than the brits themselves! Are any of you guys coming over for to watch a few events?
Maybe because of Nikara for some. For me it's more that Ingram and Cruttenden doing the championship in the Twingo, following Joe for now 2 years and is a great pall!

And Chris is I think now 17 years old and already has 2 years experience in rally, that's crazy :D

[OldF]

There’s a discussion going on a Finnish forum (Google Kääntäjä (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.f1-forum.fi%2Fvb%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D33875)) about BRC history, of course from a Finnish point of view.

In the 70s and beginning of 80s BRC was a ladder to an international career for many Finnish drivers. One of the Finnish forum members bought this DVD.

I searched for BRC youtube videos but when I found the one top of the list I stopped searching and started watching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQg-AxMaw9o&feature=related Scottish rally 1973 en RAC Rally 1975

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGQDBlLA_RE&feature=related 1976 Scottish Rally.flv

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN81iC9ncfk BRC 1978 - Rd 1 Circuit of Ireland

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZuby-qJ7cs&feature=related BRC 1978 - Rd 2 Welsh Rally

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIJ5awFoYBM&feature=related BRC 1978 - Rd 3 Scottish Rally

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJDE4rym3Zc The 1980 Mintex Rally

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVAAID39QV8 1981 British Rally Championship

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOEyrINcFL0 Rally Archive....Manx Rally '81.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOEyrINcFL0 Circuit of Ireland 1984

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zqhSGZEBhg First Round of the 1985 British Rally Championship

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PZE2qJYdiY 1984 Manx Rally. British Rally Championship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXhxSg3fThA&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLECADE72 National Breakdown Rally 1986 pt 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbvnxtfC6M0&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLECADE7247FF05745 National Breakdown Rally 1986 pt 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVnduY9V95U&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLA1B77040137470BE BRC'83....3.Welsh Rally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYbxLcNKlts&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLA1B77040137470BE BRC'83....1.Mintex Rally

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9q-Qod7xKM&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLA1B77040137470BE BRC'83....4.Scottish Rally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hck7MBnFWPM Vatanen driving escort at isle of man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPX_I_IyQhY 1980s British Rally Championships

[Allyc85]

I was surprised at that too! Sunseeker is a relatively close rally for me but I'm still not going to bother, I'd rather save my money for Epynt in a couple of weeks.

I cant make Epynt and im proper peeved about it, its always a good day out!

Mum is offering to pay for petrol and tickets but I still dont know if I can be arsed to go! At the moment im thinking id rather stay at home and watch Arsenal (probably) get beaten by the scum!

[AndyRAC]

Rallye Sunseeker should be good - not sure i'll be going though - it's about a 4-5hour drive. And the stage I usually go to is no longer a spectator stage; Ringwood North....which is a shame as it's a fantastic stage to watch on, plenty of double junctions, hairpins, long straights, etc

[tolis]

Live stream from scutineering: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/utm_campaign=synclickback&source=http://79.170.246.215/eurotracksidetv/live/&medium=9362329

[pettersolberg29]

I'm just off to the Sunseeker now - only 30 minute drive and should be there for my first rally of the year! Hope anyone who goes has a good time.

[Tom206wrc]

No times SS1 for Tom Cave and Desi Henry :confused:

[MrJan]

Interesting being able to watch 'action' at http://live.eurotrackside.tv/ Not the greatest of spots but still better than Saturday Kitchen.

[Mirek]

Nice battle between Nikara and Donnelly among R3 and between Kumpumaki and Korhonen among R2 :)

[Hartusvuori]

And the results page is very nice. Looks simple but gives nice options for comparing competitors.

Results - Main Index (http://results.djames.org.uk/results/index.php?EventID=133&m=30)

[dimviii]

And the results page is very nice. Looks simple but gives nice options for comparing competitors.

Results - Main Index (http://results.djames.org.uk/results/index.php?EventID=133&m=30)

nice results without car make? No.

[Tom206wrc]

Nice battle between Nikara and Donnelly among R3 and between Kumpumaki and Korhonen among R2 :)

Add to this Pryce for the overall podium ;)

[Mirek]

nice results without car make? No.

I can see cars there.

[Tom206wrc]

Nikara SS7 ???? :(


Edit: mistake from site, SS7 didn't start yet :s

[Sulland]

I can see cars there.

Yes, but not directly on the result page, you need to click on the driver, or other places. Should be visable in the result page. Otherwise a good page !

[dimviii]

I can see cars there.

i can t Stage Results (http://results.djames.org.uk/results/combined.php?EventID=133&StageID=4&button=Fetch+Stage+Results&m=30)

give me a link Mirek please.

[HaCo]

Live stream online!

[Mirek]

Aha, it's missing in combined option. If You watch only stage times, only overall the cars are there.

[Sulland]

Impressive times from Cronin in a R1 !

[Tom206wrc]

Desi Henry was forgotten since the start and finally appears now :p :
Nikara and Donnelly on SS7 ??? :confused:

[mousti]

Ingram - Cruttenden retired with a broken shaft.

[Tom206wrc]

SS8 blocked after 7 first crews ??? Crash from Pryce ??? :confused:

[Tom206wrc]

Equal time Donnelly Nikara after SS9 :bounce:

[MrJan]

SS8 blocked after 7 first crews ??? Crash from Pryce ??? :confused:

According to the commentary Callum Black rolled. Both driver and co-driver got out okay but then the car caught fire and set light to the surrounding vegetation.

Highlight of the day so far, the small child that fell over while crossing the stage :D ;)

[Mirek]

Nikara and Donnelly have same time after SS9 :)

[Elkoorps]

Andrew Coleys twitter:

Nikara retired right in front of us on SS11

[Hartusvuori]

Andrew Coleys twitter:

Nikara retired right in front of us on SS11

Noooo! Without knowing what happened but Nikara needs to learn to finish rallies for crying out loud.

[Mirek]

Korhonen out on last stage too?

[Elkoorps]

Congrats to Mark Donnelly for winning the first round of the BRC. Unlucky Nikara, could have been very close at the top as he was a second or two faster on SS10.

[Hartusvuori]

Anyone knows what happened to Nikara?

[rp]

And what about Korhonen on the last SS...

[Elkoorps]

Retirements and Exclusions (http://results.djames.org.uk/results/retirements.php?EventID=133&m=30)

this may help

[rp]

Retirements and Exclusions (http://results.djames.org.uk/results/retirements.php?EventID=133&m=30)

this may help

I know, but it will not...

[Hartusvuori]

Niko-Pekka Nieminen retired on SS11 too. For Finns this rally was two stages too long...

[rp]

Now it seems that Nikara had a fire. What a shame!

[Elkoorps]

Very unlucky for all the Flying Fins, I cannot wait for the TV footage though to see the battle of Nikara and Donnelly.

[Allyc85]

Impressive times from Cronin in a R1 !

The man has always been bloody fast, its a disgrace that he hasn't had the opportunity to further his rally career!

[pettersolberg29]

Just got back from a surprisingly good day out - wasn't expecting the competition and spectating to be as good this year with less WRC cars and with people like Dodd and Perez not on the entry list. However I was pleasantly surprised - Donnelly was really going for it as were the O'Brians in the Focuses and a few of the Escorts at the end of the field. Overall a really good event, great viewing again and some of the best marshals I've known. For all those who complained on various other forums (on here seemed to be nicely positive!) I can confirm their negativity was misplaced.

[AndyRAC]

Yes, another BRC winner stuck in no man's land. Can't raise finance to further his career. Marty McCormack is another, and the same could be said for Kris Meeke.
By the way, we all know Keith is Irish, but what license is he driving on? On one of the Irish forums they're not happy that in the results a GBR flag is shown next to his name.

[Sulland]

It turns out Steve Røkland also has been driving a R1 Fiesta, but M-Sport did not recieve the homologation papers, so he started in the R2 class.
As the Shootout winner he has been asked by M-Sport to use the R1 in BRC, and be part of the development of the car!
Cool!

[Mirek]

Thanks, I was wondering why he was so slow.

[mousti]

DS3 of Cave arrived this morning.

[Tom206wrc]

So how many DS3 R3s at the Bulldog Rally by end march :confused:
There's also apparently the Sainteloc team which looks for renting one or several in BRC...

[Tom206wrc]

Young french driver Vincent Dubert on pre-entrylist Bulldog rally !!! :)
The Bulldog Rally - Welcome (http://www.bulldog-rally.co.uk/)

[mousti]

Cave's DS3 Twitter / Tom Cave: DS3 stickered up, ready fo ... (http://twitter.com/tomcaverally/status/178891852680921089/photo/1/large)

[Allyc85]

Nice colour scheme. Shame the R3t Ds3 is the most boring looking and sounding rally car ever made, but if it does the job...

[Mirek]

I thought the same before I saw it in action with great drivers on asphalt. On gravel it probably is but otherwise it's way from being boring ;)

[Tom206wrc]

When is seeded entrylist of Bulldog Rally published ??? :confused:

[Martin Liddle]

When is seeded entrylist of Bulldog Rally published ??? :confused:

Some time over the coming weekend but entries do not finally close until Tuesday so there could be late additions.

[MJW]

When is seeded entrylist of Bulldog Rally published ??? :confused:

The Bulldog International Rally of North Wales 2012
1 Elfyn Evans Aberystwyth B,F Andrew Edwards Aberystwyth B,F Ford Fiesta R2 1600 6
2 Mark Donnelly F.O.D B Dai Roberts T.V.M.C B Renault Clio R3 1998 5
3 Jarkko Nikara B,C Petri Nikara B,C Citroen DS3 1598 5
4 Desi Henry Magherafelt and District M.C B,C Niall Burns Sligo B,C Citroen DS3 R3 1600 5
5 Osian Pryce Dovey Valley MC B,C Iestyn Williams Harlech & District MC B,C Citroen DS3 1600 5
6 Tom Cave Dovey Valley MC B,C Craig Parry Forest of Dean MC B,C Citroen DS3 1600 5
7 Jukka Korhonen BRC B Mikael Korhonen BRC B Skoda Fabia R2 1598 6
8 Jussi Kumpumaki B,F Marko Salminen NoorUA/MK B,F Ford Fiesta R2 1596 6
9 Alastair Fisher B,F Daniel Barritt B,F Ford Fiesta R2 1598 6
10 Vincent Dubert C Stephane Rey Citroen DS3 0 5
11 Peter Taylor Whickham dmc B Andrew Roughead Whickham dmc B Renault Clio R3 1998 10
12 Matthew Cathcart IRDC B,F James Morgan IRDC B,F Ford Fiesta R2 1598 6
14 Jack Rowe Ripon B,F James Aldridge Ripon B,F Ford Fiesta R2 1596 10
15 Niko-Pekka Nieminen kyrön seudun urheiluautoiliat B,F Pasi Haataja Tapiolan Urheiluautoilijat B,F Ford Fiesta R2 0 6
16 Molly Taylor Seb Marshall B Ford Fiesta R2 1598 6
17 Ruary MacLeod IRDC B,F Paul Beaton Highland Car Club B,F Ford Fiesta R2 1598 6
18 James Grint Green Belt B,C Craig Drew Citroen DS3 1598 5
19 Chris Ingram BRC B,R Joe Cruttenden Knowledale B,R Renault Twingo R2 1600 6
20 Steve Rokland B,F Dag Nordstrand F Ford Fiesta 1598 10
21 Alex Parpottas TBA B,F Chris Davies Port Talbot Mc B,F Ford Fiesta R2 1596 6
22 Gethin Jones IRDC B,F Kevin Devine IRDC B,F Ford Fiesta ST 1999 8
23 Nick Allen Whitby B,R Andy Bull BTRDA B,R Renault Twingo 1600 6
24 Matt Cotton BRC B,F Glyn Thomas BRC B,F Ford Fiesta ST 1998 8
25 Christian South Btrda B Tomas Whittle B Citroen C2 Max 1600 6
26 Arron Newby BRC B Julian Wilkinson BRC B Skoda Fabia R2 1598 6
27 Garry Pearson Border Ecosse & IRDC B,R Craig Wallace IRDC B,R Renault Twingo R1 1598 10
28 Jonathan Greer BADMC Citroen DS3 1600 5
29 Egon Kaur Erik Lepikson Ford Fiesta R2 1598 6
30 Keith Cronin Killarney B Marshall Clarke B Honda Civic 0 5

[Tom206wrc]

A great entrylist :cool:

[mousti]

Was a good decision to make it 2wd championship, so much contenders and most of them are all young prospects!

[Tom206wrc]

James Grint's new DS3 with livery :)
British Rally Debut for Grint (http://rallysportmedia.com/2012/03/15/british-rally-debut-for-grints-new-green-machine/)

That reminds a little Harry Hunt's livery ;)

[mousti]

Don't know from where they get that taste for that green :p

[Allyc85]

Was a good decision to make it 2wd championship, so much contenders and most of them are all young prospects!

It seems like we have a good ladder forming in this country with F1000 rallying producing some promising youngsters, that can then move on into the BARc with an R1/R2 car :)

[ste898]

Was a good decision to make it 2wd championship, so much contenders and most of them are all young prospects!

Are you having a laugh?

Our so called Top championship is a total waste of time now

But best thing to do is just more or less forget it exists now and get out the dvd's of old BRC years

[mousti]

It's maybe not the most powerfull cars, but I don't think it wouldn't be such tough competition with all cars being allowed.. and in the UK and Ireland u have so many different championship that have WRC's in it.

[HaCo]

Was a good decision to make it 2wd championship, so much contenders and most of them are all young prospects!

I totally agree. I have seen the motors Tv coverage: big fights, driven to the limit cars. It makes good competition.

Verstuurd van mijn MT15i met Tapatalk

[Allyc85]

Are you having a laugh?

Our so called Top championship is a total waste of time now

But best thing to do is just more or less forget it exists now and get out the dvd's of old BRC years

You need to look at the bigger picture!

The BRC has been dead for years, even when it had WRC cars towards the end and drivers havnt been able to move on despite being champions! Now it gives young drivers the chance to learn the cars and progress into the junior world championships at a lower cost than before.

Just go watch the BTRDA if you want fast cars... simple ;)

[mousti]

You need to look at the bigger picture!

The BRC has been dead for years, even when it had WRC cars towards the end and drivers havnt been able to move on despite being champions! Now it gives young drivers the chance to learn the cars and progress into the junior world championships at a lower cost than before.

Just go watch the BTRDA if you want fast cars... simple ;)
That's indeed what I meant :)

[Tom206wrc]

It was really good competitions at Bulldog(as previously at Sunseeker) !!! I already like BRC 2012 :)


Edit: and in 2013 I hope to see some Pug 208s added in R2 class :p :

[cut full]

oh yes tom, 208 is missing in this very nice competition.
I like brc 2012 a lot, you see top rallye drivers in 2wd cars. thats not often! the cars are cleanly driven to the limit, its so nice to look at them! sorry guys who cant like it...

[N.O.T]

This is a very nice entry... lots of good cars and quite close to each other as performance goes so it is going to put driving skills as a priority to win once more... nice.

[mousti]

Even NOT agrees ! Congratz BRC is on the good way :D

[mousti]

Those who found it weird that Cave started in the Bulldog with a yellow DS3 and not in a white-red DS3 like we saw on the image of the livery, well this is the reason..

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/553600_371493499558296_196040620436919_1106482_781 153642_n.jpg

[cut full]

oooo ****! especially the engine doesnt like that...

[Tom206wrc]

Now I want Martin McCormack to definitely enter the championship after what he showed in Circuit of Ireland past week-end :mark:

[Tom206wrc]

First entries Pirelli International Rally available ;)
Pirelli Internstional Rally (http://www.pirelliinternationalrally.co.uk/)

[noel157]

Now I want Martin McCormack to definitely enter the championship after what he showed in Circuit of Ireland past week-end :mark:

He needs money Tom, hopefully he'll get something sorted.

[Tom206wrc]

This weekend Pirelli International Rally starts... :cool:

[Tom206wrc]

I won't be able to follow the rally, I'll be out of my home for several days without internet :mark:
So if you want to follow the event Results - Main Index (http://results.djames.org.uk/results/?m=34) ;)

[Allyc85]

Tom Cave has lost a major sponsor and this weekend could be his last in the championship for the year :(

[Tom206wrc]

Congratulations to Keith Cronin, winner of 2012 Pirelli Inter Rally :cool:

[AndyRAC]

Tom Cave has lost a major sponsor and this weekend could be his last in the championship for the year :(

After winning the previous round, the Bulldog......a great shame, same with Marty McCormack, no money no car.

However, went to Archys Rigg, enjoyed it, Nikara was impressive, totally sideways at a 90-ish right hander. Elfin needs a quicker car, and Cronin is seriously quick, but doesn't appear to be so, very smooth. Another driver who needs cash/ backing....not sure what a 2 time BRC winner is still doing in it. A shame, he should be in the IRC.....

[Juha_Koo]

Pirelli Rally wasn't so bad for Finns... Nikara second overall and in R3, Korhonen and Kumpumäki second and third in R2. Kumpumäki also won the Star Driver award.

[Tom206wrc]

Tom Cave has lost a major sponsor and this weekend could be his last in the championship for the year :(


Fior info: Cave was running Carlow Stages Rally last week-end... :confused:

[Tom206wrc]

Black Callum will drive a Citroën DS3 R3T at next round of british championship(Jim Clark Rally)instead of his usual Suzuki S1600 ;)

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[Tom206wrc]

Can't wait for Ulster Rally next week !!! Great entrylist to my taste :bounce:
Home (http://www.ulsterrally.com/)

[Tom206wrc]

Guy Wilks at the wheels of a Twingo Evo R2 in Ulster next week :confused:

[Tom206wrc]

Hey !!! As a training for next week's event in Ulster, several drivers are currently running the Tipperary Stonethrower Rally(Henry, Doyle, Greer, Donnelly)...I must say I'm impressed by Desy Henry's performance so far :eek:
Rally Results - Tipperary Stonethrowers Rally, 2012 (http://results.shannonsportsit.ie/results.php)

[Tom206wrc]

Is there any shakedown today thursday for the Ulster Rally :confused:

[Sulland]

Read som rumour on twitter that its plans for allowing non-homologated cars from 2013.
Good idea.

GT-86s are already being planned, it said.

Is this a fact, or just BS?

[Steve Boyd]

BRC is changing to National A permit events next year instead of International. As a result cars that are not FIA homologated will be permitted but as I understand it any cars that are not covered by an FIA homologation will need to comply with BRC homologation rules to get a championship "passport". GT-86s are probably just someone's dream at the moment as the championship announcement has only just been released so nobody will have had time to work out exactly what is needed.
The official statement is here:
2013 BRC: The evolution continues (http://www.rallybrc.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/official-news/1103-2013-brc-the-evolution-continues)

[Tom206wrc]

Great news to me !!!! Pirelli UK chose the Citroën DS3 R3T for 2013 "Pirelli Star Driver" car :bounce:

[tolis]

2013 MSA British Rally Championship calendar*

Round 1: 6/7 April – Rally North Wales, Welshpool, (Gravel)
Round 2: 4/5 May - Pirelli Rally, Carlisle, Cumbria (Gravel)
Round 3: 30 May /1 June - Jim Clark Rally, Duns, Scottish Borders (Asphalt)
Round 4: 29 June – Scottish Rally, Dumfries (Gravel)
Round 5: 23/24 August - Rally NI, Northern Ireland (Asphalt)
Round 6: 28/29 Sept - Rally Yorkshire, Scarborough, North Yorkshire (Gravel)
Round 7: 19 October – Rallye Sunseeker*, Bournemouth/Poole (Gravel)

Best 5 scores from 7 rounds to count. Rallye Sunseeker scores x 1.5 points.

[Allyc85]

Bit of a change for the Sunseeker! I guess they had to to try something with falling entry and spectator numbers!

[AndyRAC]

Bit of a change for the Sunseeker! I guess they had to to try something with falling entry and spectator numbers!

Yes, but October?? Not sure about that, I actually wish the Bulldog would return to it's old October slot. The Sunseeker hasn't been the same since the demise of the ANCRO series. I'm not sure about the points for the Sunseeker, points should reflect how hard, or the added mileage of an event.

[Tom206wrc]

Next week is held the last round of BRC, International Rally Yorkshire ;)
How come Elfyn Evans isn't on seeded order entrylist :confused:

[AndyRAC]

Next week is held the last round of BRC, International Rally Yorkshire ;)
How come Elfyn Evans isn't on seeded order entrylist :confused:

It's the WRC Academy round in France a week later - so he's saving his car for that.

[Tom206wrc]

OK thanks AndyRAC ;)

[irish_tiger]

It's the WRC Academy round in France a week later - so he's saving his car for that.
Does he not use a different car for the Academy ? I thought M-Sport supplyied all the Academy cars - arrive and drive type thing ??? thats the way it was last year .. :confused:

[irish_tiger]

Great news to me !!!! Pirelli UK chose the Citroën DS3 R3T for 2013 "Pirelli Star Driver" car :bounce:
What team has been picked to run the car ?

[AndyRAC]

Does he not use a different car for the Academy ? I thought M-Sport supplyied all the Academy cars - arrive and drive type thing ??? thats the way it was last year .. :confused:

Not sure - I tweeted MNews wondering why Evans wasn't doing the Trackrod, and that was what I was told.

[AndyRAC]

Does he not use a different car for the Academy ? I thought M-Sport supplyied all the Academy cars - arrive and drive type thing ??? thats the way it was last year .. :confused:

I tweeted MNews asking why he wasn't entered; as he's unlikely to win the event because he's in a R2 Fiesta, he is preparing for France.

[Tom206wrc]

What team has been picked to run the car ?


Looks to be PH Sport :confused:

[Jeppe]

Looks to be PH Sport :confused:

No Tom, it´s David Greer Motorsport Pirelli announces agreement with Citroën Racing for Star Driver programme (http://rallybrc.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/official-news/1135-pirelli-announces-agreement-with-citroen-racing-for-star-driver-programme)

[Mintexmemory]

It's the WRC Academy round in France a week later - so he's saving his car for that.

??? Is it the same car? I thought he was just making sure he was personally in one piece. - just checked, BRC car has a different number plate and livery (at least it did on the Pirelli)
Edit: Just seen the rest of the thread... Think it's a load of bull that he 'doesn't think he can win in an R2' Looked just fine in Kielder last spring when beating the DS3s. Sounds like a journ making it up as he goes along!

[Jeppe]

I personally think that EE is putting 101% effort on the WRC Acdemy in France. Therefore it´s maybe better to rest and train some tarmac before next weekend.

And BTW, he is already British R2 Champion plus there is not so good chances for him to take British OA Champion due the point scoring system: You can leave one out and EE got good points from all of the rallies...

[Tom206wrc]

Anyway, to follow the final Results - Main Index (http://results.djames.org.uk/results/?e=199) ;)

[SubaruNorway]

Any rally radio in the BRC?

[Mirek]

Navteace where You are? The championship was made only for cheap 2WD cars and there are 12 starters in BRC Rally tonight. Is that what You want?

[SubaruNorway]

There are more than 12 cars in the rally right? Can't see anymore on the entry list...

[Tom206wrc]

I guess there's a problem of sweeping these gravel roads, as Cronin lost 14" on Cave and Pryce on SS1 :confused:

[Mirek]

There are more than 12 cars in the rally right? Can't see anymore on the entry list...

Only 12 in BRC classification. Entry list is here: Entry List (http://results.djames.org.uk/results/entry.php?EventID=199&e=199)

[noel157]

I guess there's a problem of sweeping these gravel roads, as Cronin lost 14" on Cave and Pryce on SS1 :confused:

Cronin only needs to finish 8th or better to take the title.

[AndyRAC]

Cronin only needs to finish 8th or better to take the title.

Which he should do - and his 3rd BRC in 4 years! Yet nobody is mentioning him for 'bigger drives'. I always thought he was quicker than Breen....

[Tom206wrc]

After SS4 big duel between Cave and Pryce(only 5" between them with two long stages to go) :)
As you said Noël, no need for Cronin to win here to get the title, so no need to uselessly take risks ;)
In R2 Korhonen takes the lead from Cathcart...

Strange tyres problem for Greer yesterday on SS1 causing him to restart under superrally today :confused:

[noel157]

Which he should do - and his 3rd BRC in 4 years! Yet nobody is mentioning him for 'bigger drives'. I always thought he was quicker than Breen....

Would tend to agree with you Andy, but difficult to compare. Cronin has always been on a limited budget and therefore is unable to gain as much international experience and experience in different cars/classes as Breen has done.
I think Cronin has only done two events in S2000 (Punto and Proton) but with his odd French outing as well he's getting there. Not sure he has proven himself for greater things just yet.