Ferrari renews threat of breakaway series [Archive]

Retro Formula 1

17th December 2010, 13:08

99% bluster but as always, there is always the 1%.

It's true that the fundamental basis of F1 is not too complicated. Contracts can be negotiated with circuits and deals done with advertisers and the media.

What is slightly more difficult is the depth and experience that Bernie has invested in the commercial side. I think starting from scratch would be very difficult.

Then we have the question of who would run it; Flav?

The only thing that has possibly moved in favor of a breakaway series is Todt and not Max at the FIA. Max proactive discouraged the breakaway series but would Jean?

As per usual, this is all about negotiating the new agreement and a shot across the bows for Bernie and David Campbell.

UltimateDanGTR

17th December 2010, 13:19

I know the tifosi are getting quite annoyed by the apparent Ferrari bashing on the forum lately, but you can't argue that the scuderia don't give people good reason to criticize with stuff like this......

LdM should realize now that under Jean Todt we have a good leader and a stable environment on which to build on. No need for a breakaway with No Max about.

Mark

17th December 2010, 14:00

They have no intention of leaving, they just want more cash. They know that, Todt knows that, everybody knows that!

Rusty Spanner

17th December 2010, 15:02

Can you tell that the Concord agreement is coming up for renewal?

Tazio

17th December 2010, 15:28

gloomyDAY

17th December 2010, 17:56

I definitely side with LdM. Makes a lot of sense! Bernie is running off with a chunk of the profits that should go to the teams, the 2013 engine rules are lame, and the constant choke hold on the rules makes it really difficult for designers/engineers to be innovative in F1. Breakaway? Not likely, but these issues should be addressed.

The only thing I disagree with Ferrari is a 3-car team. I don't really see the necessity for a team to field that many cars. Two cars are enough since it takes up a lot of resources AND there's no way in hell I'd want to see a dominant car take up the entire podium.

Hawkmoon

18th December 2010, 00:56

They have no intention of leaving, they just want more cash. They know that, Todt knows that, everybody knows that!

Which makes them no different to the other 12 teams on the grid.

ioan

18th December 2010, 11:32

Now that everyone saw that they didn't care about the fans, as they were claiming last time, who cares anymore about their threats?!

Dave B

18th December 2010, 12:48

Side note, make sure you've got an adblocker before you click that link, it triggered about a billion warnings on my PC :\

markabilly

18th December 2010, 14:58

I definitely side with LdM. Makes a lot of sense! .
ME TOO!!!

I think Ferrari should also have a three car team and its own series!!!!
But three cars are the minimum to keep the series going.

they can add valentio rossi to the thrid car, and the fan interst will be kept on high to see who finishes second for the WDC behind Alsono.

Will it be rosssi or massa.......this will be fun :D

SGWilko

18th December 2010, 15:23

ME TOO!!!

I think Ferrari should also have a three car team and its own series!!!!
But three cars are the minimum to keep the series going.

they can add valentio rossi to the thrid car, and the fan interst will be kept on high to see who finishes second for the WDC behind Alsono.

Will it be rosssi or massa.......this will be fun :D

Nah, Ferrari strategist will choke inresponse to an early stop from Rossi, and Massa will win it.....

markabilly

18th December 2010, 15:37

Nah, Ferrari strategist will choke inresponse to an early stop from Rossi, and Massa will win it.....
naw, the word will go out...."Alonso is faster than all of you....do you all understand.........What? What do you mean what??? I said move over, or you will be driving fiats delivering pizza on Monday"

Roamy

19th December 2010, 18:42

I think you could hire a couple of venue managers for a hell of a lot less than the mop and the toad

V12

20th December 2010, 03:06

I'm sitting on the fence on this one, I'm not inherently pro- or anti- a breakaway, and I would support whichever one had the best rules.

If a breakaway series raced on mainly traditional tracks, had more liberal technical regulations and less mickey-mouse sporting regs like post-2002 F1 has, it would get my support, and vice versa.

But the whole thing is probably a Tony George-style power play without any actual morals behind it, in which case both sides get the finger from me.

mstillhere

20th December 2010, 03:34

http://en.espnf1.com/ferrari/motorsport/story/36638.html

fait need to tell Luca di Montezemolo to foff

I am really surprised that NOBODY actually knows how to read. Let me open your weyes a little. The article says:

"Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has warned that F1 teams are still considering a breakaway series if they do not get a bigger cut of the sport's profits in the next Concorde Agreement".

"FERRARI AND F1 TEAMS ARE CONSIDERING ETC"., do you guys see it?
It's rather sad that your blind hatred for Ferrari makes you blind and unable to know how to read elementary English.

And remember: no Ferrari no F1. It's as simple as that

CNR

20th December 2010, 06:34

I am really surprised that NOBODY actually knows how to read. Let me open your weyes a little. The article says:

"Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has warned that F1 teams are still considering a breakaway series if they do not get a bigger cut of the sport's profits in the next Concorde Agreement".

"FERRARI AND F1 TEAMS ARE CONSIDERING ETC"., do you guys see it?
It's rather sad that your blind hatred for Ferrari makes you blind and unable to know how to read elementary English.

And remember: no Ferrari no F1. It's as simple as that

did you not see this

Luca di Montezemolo: "We have Formula One in our hearts and minds but we don't want to be in a Formula One prison

odykas

20th December 2010, 10:08

Ferrari threaten before they negotiate to strenthen their position.
It's as simple as that....

Retro Formula 1

20th December 2010, 10:24

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

It's just the usual postering and people start talking about the death of F1 if Ferrari leave. What is wrong with you people.

In case the Ferrari Director of Defence (liked that one :) ) cannot read plain English, LdM was speaking of the F1 TEAMS needing a greater share of money. Not just Ferrari.

If all the main teams leave F1, it would crumble and fail but that's not going to happen. This is just a tactic!!!

SGWilko

20th December 2010, 11:45

And remember: no Ferrari no F1. It's as simple as that

Surely you mean "No Ferrari in F1 = loads more money for the other teams"

Retro Formula 1

20th December 2010, 11:59

Surely you mean "No Ferrari in F1 = loads more money for the other teams"

Or possibly, "No Ferrari in F1 = No Ferrari" :laugh:

Anyway, I don't know why people are jumping to Ferrari's defence. LdM spoke about the Teams throughout and that the Teams demand more share. At no time did LdM make out he was talking about Ferrari only.

ArrowsFA1

20th December 2010, 12:48

And remember: no Ferrari no F1. It's as simple as that
F1 went ahead perfectly well without Ferrari when the FIA Formula 1 World Championship began at Silverstone in 1950 and it would mange without them now.

Their departure would be a big loss of course, but this "threat" has been wheeled out from time to time, most frequently by Enzo Ferrari. If Luca really means it then he'd do more damage to Ferrari than to F1.

Tazio

20th December 2010, 15:13

F1 went ahead perfectly well without Ferrari when the FIA Formula 1 World Championship began at Silverstone in 1950 and it would mange without them now.

Their departure would be a big loss of course, but this "threat" has been wheeled out from time to time, most frequently by Enzo Ferrari. If Luca really means it then he'd do more damage to Ferrari than to F1.

:up:

Plus he would not threaten, he would simply do it.

mstillhere

20th December 2010, 15:45

did you not see this

Is this statement excluding the way the other FOTA teams feel about the subject? IOW, Is this excluding this: "Ferrari and other F1 teams?

mstillhere

20th December 2010, 15:46

Ferrari's Director of Defence:

Sorry I had a chuckle about this. Theres nothing more annoying than the blind assumption that any team on the grid is bigger than the sport itself. F1 is steeped in history and Ferrari are a hefty part of that, but lets not get carried away with the notion that if Ferrari left, the sport would crumble because thats utter balls. The sport would be poorer, but it would continue and the technology display would still be there.

Well, there is only one way to find out.

mstillhere

20th December 2010, 15:48

Surely you mean "No Ferrari in F1 = loads more money for the other teams"

On the contrary, sir. Without Ferrari the money coming would much less.

mstillhere

20th December 2010, 15:51

Or possibly, "No Ferrari in F1 = No Ferrari" :laugh:

Anyway, I don't know why people are jumping to Ferrari's defence. LdM spoke about the Teams throughout and that the Teams demand more share. At no time did LdM make out he was talking about Ferrari only.

I'll tell you why I am jumping in Ferrari defence. Mainly because of lack hionesty in reading the article posted correctly. One thing is not being a Ferrari supporter it's entirely different bashing Ferrari on non existing facts as stated in the article.

ArrowsFA1

20th December 2010, 16:02

Luca certainly has had quite a bit to say recently. Has there been a media event at Maranello or something? Here's a few examples:

Bernie Ecclestone's continued control over Formula 1 is vital if the sport is to secure its long-term future, believes Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88726

Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo says he will continue to push for top teams to be allowed to run three cars, and for the testing limits to be relaxed.

Di Montezemolo was critical of the new generation of circuits too, echoing FIA president Jean Todt's recent suggestion that future new tracks need to prioritise overtaking possibilities.

But he felt that the FIA's recent decision to end the team orders ban showed that the governing body was moving in the right direction under Todt.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88705

Felipe Massa drove like his brother during parts of the 2010 season, according to Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88690

Retro Formula 1

20th December 2010, 16:10

I'll tell you why I am jumping in Ferrari defence. Mainly because of lack hionesty in reading the article posted correctly. One thing is not being a Ferrari supporter it's entirely different bashing Ferrari on non existing facts as stated in the article.

I appreciate thet English isn't your first language but I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

Are you trying to say that the artical was posted correctly but the facts stated in the artical were untrue? If so, which ones?

I wasn't bashing Ferrari but trying to make the point that LdM was speaking from the point of view of being a Team Principal and not as the Principal of Ferrari.

mstillhere

20th December 2010, 22:06

I appreciate thet English isn't your first language but I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

Are you trying to say that the artical was posted correctly but the facts stated in the artical were untrue? If so, which ones?

I wasn't bashing Ferrari but trying to make the point that LdM was speaking from the point of view of being a Team Principal and not as the Principal of Ferrari.

What I am saying is that the comments posted in here do not reflect the contents found in the article. LdM was speaking for Ferrari and also for the other FOTA teams.

As for not bashing Ferrari, thank you. I appreciate it. I welcome to have discussions that are fair and straight to the point.

PS "artical" I see we all have our difficulties with the English language :)

CNR

21st December 2010, 00:02

Ferrari drops Italian proteges
http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=49838

Ferrari has dropped young Italians Mirko Bortolotti and Daniel Zampieri from its driver development programme at the end of the scheme's first year.

mstillhere

21st December 2010, 05:16

Dare I say that F1 would still continue without the likes of Mclaren too to try and move myself away from being labelled as a Ferrari "hater"? No team is bigger than the sport.

I don't think Ecclestone would like to take the chance to see Ferrari go.

Now going back to the what the article really says Ferrari never mentioned they would quit the sport. They said would create a parallel series with all the FOTA teams and have their own champioship as they almost did not too long ago.
Now where would that leave Ecclestone and the F1 as we know it?

Mark

21st December 2010, 10:47

Well I remember them saying last time that they were definitely going to have a breakaway series and there was nothing that was going to stop them going down that path now, but of course it all came back together in the end.

A breakaway series would be akin to nuclear war, both sides would lose! "The only way to win is not to play"

SGWilko

21st December 2010, 11:18

The article linked below;

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/12/dennis-whitmarsh-better-than-me-at-managing-champions/

...in the latter part of it, elaborates a little more on LDM's stance and it obviously all stems from renewal of Concorde......

Tazio

21st December 2010, 15:45

Ferrari drops Italian proteges
http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=49838

Is there any particular reason you picked a thread that this story has absolutely no relevance when you could have placed it in "The Ferrari Thread"?
I'm just curious am I missing part of the message?

mstillhere

21st December 2010, 20:55

I would imagine the FIA in coalition with Bernie Ecclestone would block the application of the breakaway series and not grant it the valid license to run. The FIA earn alot of money out of Bernie and would do everything in their power to make sure this continues. When I was at the British GP in 2009 the last threat was at its height, and its wasn't popular amongst fans (not just British before that accusation is put forward) and the protest was visible. Fans were annoyed with the FIA, but the breakaway series was feared on the whole.

If a new series was formed the history, and teams strengths within the series would start from scratch as far as I am concerned. Ferrari wouldn't be able to claim to be the oldest most prestigious F1 team and Mclaren and everyone else would be start the era on zero World Championships. It just wouldn't feel the same, although would possibily provide exciting racing. Its sad that teams are in a position where they have to threaten a governing body in order to convey what they want.

I don't think there is going to be a breakway series since it is in everyone's interest to keep F1 alive. As you mention a new series would not have all the sense of history and tradition that F1 instead has. And you are right. F1 fans don't like this beakering eitheir.

Having said that, I think the issue about money needs to be resolved. And my personal experience tells me that money is everything in this sport.
I am sure Ecclestone would not let money destroy F1. He will meet F1 teams demands somehow so that discussions will be about racing again.

PS I hope we can keep in talking about this issue in a fair a straight way. Thank you :)

Rollo

21st December 2010, 22:30

I don't think there is going to be a breakaway series since it is in everyone's interest to keep F1 alive. As you mention a new series would not have all the sense of history and tradition that F1 instead has. And you are right. F1 fans don't like this bickering either.

If ALL of the teams were to walk out, would that "new" series which would be an exact 1:1 translation of the previous one except without the cringing little monkey Bernie, would it magically lose all of the history and tradition that F1 has?
Did the creation Premier League suddenly spell the death of English Football?

Having said that, I think the issue about money needs to be resolved. And my personal experience tells me that money is everything in this sport.
I am sure Ecclestone would not let money destroy F1. He will meet F1 teams demands somehow so that discussions will be about racing again.

"The degeneracy of Motor-Racing as a sport is due to the financial issues now involved in each race - the immense value of victory and the commercial disaster of defeat... I can see in the near future the sporting element obliterate by the all-devouring monster of commercialism."
- Charles Jarrot, 1906

I hope that Berine does "let money destroy F1" and the whole superstructure which supports him. It's not Bernie who runs the cars, nor goes to the effort of developing them. The quicker that this little pustulent parasite can be pulled from his precarious position of power, the more pleasant F1 will become.

Tazio

21st December 2010, 22:48

Populus quisnam es in incendia es hillarious - People who are on fire are hillarious
hasta en fuego! :wave: :hot: :angryfire : :bandit: :)

Bolton Midnight

23rd December 2010, 04:08

I definitely side with LdM. Makes a lot of sense! Bernie is running off with a chunk of the profits that should go to the teams

Without Bernie all the teams would be a hell of a lot poorer, like it or not Bernie has made the sport what it is today and all the revenue it makes.

And remember: no Ferrari no F1. It's as simple as that

It would have been unthinkable in the past for F1 not to have a proper Lotus team or Tyrrell etc but it seemed to manage okay without them.

The Premiership doesn't have to have Liverpool FC, the sport is bigger than the teams.

ioan

25th December 2010, 14:09

"The degeneracy of Motor-Racing as a sport is due to the financial issues now involved in each race - the immense value of victory and the commercial disaster of defeat... I can see in the near future the sporting element obliterate by the all-devouring monster of commercialism."
- Charles Jarrot, 1906

I hope that Berine does "let money destroy F1" and the whole superstructure which supports him. It's not Bernie who runs the cars, nor goes to the effort of developing them. The quicker that this little pustulent parasite can be pulled from his precarious position of power, the more pleasant F1 will become.

Cheers to that! :up:

Tazio

25th December 2010, 23:05

Cheers to that! :up: I also am in agreement with Rollo in this matter. All major sports have wrung the neck of the consumer with their escalating costs. I just don't think Bernie cares to address the real reasons for F1's particular issue in this arena. I'm tired of listening to the BS, and it's not just from Bernie (but he seems to have the most to gain from it.) The whole lowering costs for teams to operate is really skewed IMO. They should do what they did in Major league Baseball in the US. The teams that could afford to spend more, and make more money should participate in profit sharing. That along without having a middleman making an obscene profit would go a long way to level the playing field. Establish a realistic spending cap. It will be attainable for all dedicated teams in short time.
Plus bring back the old venues. As a fan I'm not the least bit interested in how many VIP's you can stuff into a paddock. There is enough money in TV alone to sustain F1 quite easily. JMHO Guys :)

Rollo

26th December 2010, 02:37

Without Bernie all the teams would be a hell of a lot poorer, like it or not Bernie has made the sport what it is today and all the revenue it makes.

Without the tacit support of the teams, Bernie would be nothing; the teams themselves would still exist.

Any compotent sports management company could have done what Bernie did. V8 Supercars Australia which runs the V8 Supercars in Australia is 75% owned by the teams and 25% owned by Sports & Entertainment Limited. If a similar system were adpoted in F1, then the need for Bernie would cease to exist.

mstillhere

27th December 2010, 07:02

[quote="Rollo"]Without the tacit support of the teams, Bernie would be nothing; the teams themselves would still exist.

Any compotent sports management company could have done what Bernie did. V8 Supercars Australia which runs the V8 Supercars in Australia is 75% owned by the teams and 25% owned by Sports & Entertainment Limited. If a similar system were adpoted in F1, then the need for Bernie would cease to exist

Second that

Bolton Midnight

24th January 2011, 15:02

Without the tacit support of the teams, Bernie would be nothing; the teams themselves would still exist.

Any compotent sports management company could have done what Bernie did. V8 Supercars Australia which runs the V8 Supercars in Australia is 75% owned by the teams and 25% owned by Sports & Entertainment Limited. If a similar system were adpoted in F1, then the need for Bernie would cease to exist.

But then Ferrari would still see itself as more important than the rest of the teams and still demand a bigger slice of the pie

SGWilko

24th January 2011, 15:08

V8 Supercars Australia which runs the V8 Supercars in Australia

Now there's a thing - imagine that! :laugh:

rjbetty

24th January 2011, 15:12

Ferrari to form breakaway series? Here we go again...

SGWilko

24th January 2011, 15:13

Ferrari to form breakaway series? Here we go again...

They still make Breakaway chocolate bars you know, very nice.......

Bolton Midnight

24th January 2011, 15:33

They still make Breakaway chocolate bars you know, very nice.......

Pikey biscuit (on a par with Blue Ribband)

Kit Kat or Tunnocks are better imho

SGWilko

24th January 2011, 15:41

Pikey biscuit (on a par with Blue Ribband)

Kit Kat or Tunnocks are better imho

No way Pedro! Blue Ribband = Pikey, yes, but not breakaway!

Tunnocks caramel wafers are worse than Banjo (remember them?)

rjbetty

24th January 2011, 16:52

They still make Breakaway chocolate bars you know, very nice.......

Haha yeah they are nice, but they seem too much like Rocky bars to me.

Bolton Midnight

24th January 2011, 17:30

Aren't Breakaways older than Rocky bars though?

SGWilko

24th January 2011, 17:32

Aren't Breakaways older than Rocky bars though?

Dunno, check the Best Before date..... :p

Bolton Midnight

24th January 2011, 17:32

Tunnocks caramel wafers are worse than Banjo (remember them?)

No no

Tunnocks a king amongst biscuits

besides they sponsor motor sport

http://www.2300club.org/

Don't recall banjos

Wagon Wheels - they really were disgusting and v pikey - think Burtons have got rid of a lot of staff, no wonder with those crappy biscuits

SGWilko

24th January 2011, 17:34

Wagon Wheels - they really were disgusting and v pikey - think Burtons have got rid of a lot of staff, no wonder with those crappy biscuits

:bigcry: - you've just ruined my memories of childhood :laugh:

I loved, and lived on (almost) wagon wheels and fig rolls......

Bolton Midnight

24th January 2011, 17:51

fig rolls made you poop

just as well because no doubt the WW would bung you up good and proper

gloomyDAY

13th May 2011, 16:26

Ferrari to form breakaway series? Here we go again...MontezeLOCO is at it again...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91349

Good points:
- Teams' have a share in F1.
- F1 has gone too far with gimmicks.
- Making F1 more internet friendly.

Bad points:
- Teams' have a share in F1.
- EXOR manipulates F1 in favor of Ferrari.
- di M will still be around and complain.

SGWilko

13th May 2011, 16:43

Same games, different renewal date for Concorde.......

UltimateDanGTR

13th May 2011, 17:21

breakaway won't happen. There's no need, we got rid of max ages ago.

I would bet good money LdM sees himself as the next Bernie Ecclestone.

He is not.

Sonic

13th May 2011, 18:32

YAAAAAAAWWWWWNNNNN! wake me up when Luca plays a different tune.

steveaki13

13th May 2011, 18:51

Not Again

Hawkmoon

14th May 2011, 03:09

There's nothing really surprising here. The competitors think that they should get the lion's share of the money and the organisers think otherwise. It's the exact same thing that's going on in the NFL at the moment with the players wanting more of the pie and the league/team owners refusing to agree.

It's a question of whether the people who run the show (FIA/Bernie) should get more or whether the people who are the show (teams) should get get more. To me it's nothing more than one bunch of filthy rich *******s arguing with another bunch of filthy rich *******s. To hell with the lot of them.