2011 S2000 Upgrades

[Sulland]

Are there any of the current S2000 cars that are planning to do any upgrades for 2011 ?

[ProRally]

From what I understand, Skoda Fabia S2000 has engine evolution and the Ford Fiesta S2000 exhaust manifold evolution.
Probably more to come...

[Mirek]

Also new safety features and plastic windows for Fabia (and something else). Peugeot homologated major upgrades alredy before Sanremo. Fiesta new exhaust was first used by Mikkelsen in Barum rally, so it also isn't completely new feature.

[Mirek]

I forgot that new safety features are mandatory for all S2000 cars since January 2011 so Proton have to use them as well.

[OldF]

Remember also Malcom Wilson saying in an interview after a Fiesta WRC test, that they’ve found something new (could have been something with suspension) they’ve also would exploit with Fiesta S2000. He didn’t at that time want to reveal what it was.

[N.O.T]

Remember also Malcom Wilson saying in an interview after a Fiesta WRC test, that they’ve found something new (could have been something with suspension) they’ve also would exploit with Fiesta S2000. He didn’t at that time want to reveal what it was.

yes malcom always finds something new...like in bulgaria he found something new for the following tarmac WRC rounds.....

[Sulland]

The 207 is up to 300 hp: http://www.peugeot-sport.com/ressource/document/316/4cb5cf8757229.pdf
Not bad from a 2 ltr NA engine !

[Juha_Koo]

I forgot that new safety features are mandatory for all S2000 cars since January 2011 so Proton have to use them as well.

Any information what these safety features are?

[Mirek]

Polymer energy absorbers in side door together with plastic windows (normal windows can't be used because door are filled and it wouldn't be possible to open them). Maybe something more.

[Bobcat]

The 207 is up to 300 hp: http://www.peugeot-sport.com/ressource/document/316/4cb5cf8757229.pdf
Not bad from a 2 ltr NA engine !
Pipo had an engine with 315 hp in 1998.

[Mirek]

But with completely different rules...

[RS]

Pipo had an engine with 315 hp in 1998.

306 Maxi?

[dimviii]

But with completely different rules...
+1

[OldF]

But with completely different rules...

…and completely different revs

http://www.rallye-info.com/carspecs.asp?car=170 (If this info is reliable)

Super Touring cars had even more with revs about 8500 rpm but also different rules and not being a rally car.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/396/Nissan-Primera-GT-BTCC.html

[Mirek]

Yes, it's incomparable. Besides no rpm limit they also had 4 throttle valves, not just one like S2000. Those are the main differences. If we had F1 rules for engine, I believe we would have S2000 with 500 Hp from 2.0 N/A. It's really up to rules :)

[cali]

Yes, it's incomparable. Besides no rpm limit they also had 4 throttle valves, not just one like S2000. Those are the main differences. If we had F1 rules for engine, I believe we would have S2000 with 500 Hp from 2.0 N/A. It's really up to rules :)
Hmmm, what rallying in a S2000 with 500 bhp would look like? I wonder... :p :

[Mirek]

One engine would cost same as whole Škoda Motorsport? :D

[ProRally]

One engine would cost same as whole Škoda Motorsport? :D

And the rebuilds, the price of a Fabia S2000 Evo2 :D :D :bounce:

[OldF]

Haven’t heard for a while anything about MG, Opel and VW. Is VW active only in South Africa and are MG and Opel still alive and kicking?

[JRodrigues]

Hmmm, what rallying in a S2000 with 500 bhp would look like? I wonder... :p :

If current 2.4L cars have around 750hp (low value) that would make 625 bhp for 2.0 :D

[morganmilan]

Haven’t heard for a while anything about MG, Opel and VW. Is VW active only in South Africa and are MG and Opel still alive and kicking?
Only VW s2000 at interesting level in Europe is Andreas Waldherr´s in Austria AFAIK. Maybe there are other ones...

[cali]

If current 2.4L cars have around 750hp (low value) that would make 625 bhp for 2.0 :D
It would be absolutely crazy :p

[Mirek]

Only VW s2000 at interesting level in Europe is Andreas Waldherr´s in Austria AFAIK. Maybe there are other ones...

I heard that Waldherr would drive Škoda later in 2011. But it's only rumor.

[morganmilan]

I heard that Waldherr would drive Škoda later in 2011. But it's only rumor.
Then, if true, no Polos at all :D

[mousti]

I heard that Waldherr would drive Škoda later in 2011. But it's only rumor.
Could be because Gaby Goedezeune want the 2 Polo's in Austria he have already 3 Polo's in his garage. And will do some rallies also next season :)

[Racing Ka]

Nothing new, but M-Sport has finally released sales document of Fiesta S2000. So 2010 spec had 280hp@8000rpm and 2011 has 296hp@8250rpm.
S2000 Sales Document (http://fiestas2000.com/index.php/component/remository/Downloads/S2000-Sales-Document/)

[Mirek]

Hmm, X-Trac 532 gearbox of Fabia costs 21355 Eur. X-Trac 633 gearbox of Fiesta costs 29927 GBP. Rear differential Fabia 10881 Eur, Fiesta 12942 GBP (both X-Trac, don't know differences). That's quite a difference...

Engine rebuild Fiesta 12940 GBP after 1500 km. I was told for Fabia it is usually 10-12 thousand Euro after 1000-1200 km. Peugeot Evo has planned rebuild after 650 km, a friend told me the last one cost 4900 Eur.

PS Škoda prices are from 2010.

[OldF]

The engine cost per km would then be:

Ford: 14640 / 1500 = 9,76 €/km (exchange rate 0,88)
Skoda: 11000 / 1100 = 10 €/km (avarage of 10000-12000 & 1000-1200)
Peugeot: 4900 / 650 = 7,54 €/km

[Abarth]

So the Abarth can still win, not bad for an old car!
How much is the Abarth missing from what the top cars have?

[Mirek]

A lot. In real competition it is uncompetitive in any conditions except twisty smooth asphalt roads. There was no real competition in Antibes...

[Abarth]

Ok, thanks. So if a driver want to buy a used S2000 what is the best car option if you look at price against speed for both gravel and asphalt?

[Mirek]

Ok, thanks. So if a driver want to buy a used S2000 what is the best car option if you look at price against speed for both gravel and asphalt?

I can't answer. I don't know exact running cost for all cars.

[PLuto]

Ok, thanks. So if a driver want to buy a used S2000 what is the best car option if you look at price against speed for both gravel and asphalt?

Depends on lot of factors. Type of stages, type of tarmac, type of gravel, driving skills...

[Sulland]

Ok, thanks. So if a driver want to buy a used S2000 what is the best car option if you look at price against speed for both gravel and asphalt?

In my opinion the Peugeot 207 is the best buy for a second hand S2000 for the following reasons:
1. Price: You can get an upgraded older 207 for aprox 180 000 €.
2. Speed: With a good driver a top spec 207 still matches the best.
3. Parts: Many are produced and many parts are developed for all surfaces.

So for a National or Regional championship, in my book the 207 is the best option. For IRC or SWRC Fabia and Fiesta are the best.
For small asfalt rallies an Abarth still do the trick, but on gravel the suspension is to short compared to the others.

This is just my opinion, based on what I have seen on result lists, and read on the different S2000 cars. Others might think differently !

[Barreis]

It's so expensive. No 207 in SWRC?!

[Barreis]

Good question.

[PLuto]

It's so expensive. No 207 in SWRC?!

It is not about price of the car, but about price of SWRC. And politics of Wilson and people around...

[Sulland]

Is the Peugeot able to match the Skoda and Fiesta on gravel? I think the best all-round S2000 is the Fabia S2000... But I have no idea about prices.

From here http://www.rallycarsforsale.net/ the Fabias and Fiestas are starting from 220 000€ and up. If you can get a good 207 for 180k, you can do a lot of rallies for 40k !

[Barreis]

It's much better to own the car.

[Sulland]

The most important factor is the running cost of the cars. How many rallies do you think you can do for 40k?...

In a national series, I hope quite a few - if not they are not suited to most budgets for amateurs. Then they have to wait for R4T, if FIA are able to make a 'cheap' 4wd class.