Webber's broken arm

[N4D13]

Well, according to Webber's new book (via James Allen (http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/12/new-broken-shoulder-the-cause-of-webbers-slide-at-end-of-season/)), he sustained a minor fracture in his shoulder before the final four races of the season, which might help to explain his relatively bad form in the final part of the season. What do you think?

[TMorel]

Hmmm, wonder what Horner will say. Bit of an awkward position, RedBull the drink of daring, yeah perfect for the mad for it extreme sport dudes, erm only we don't actually want our employees really doing any of those things, they're a trifle dangerous dontchaknow.

As long as Mark is happy to live with the consequences then I'd rather he stay true to himself, at least his misadventures fit in with the brand that pays him.

Also worth keeping in mind, he's still just as unlucky as ever, only know that bad luck is mostly away from the circuit thereby improving his race results ;)

[Sonic]

Hmmm. That same James Allen who co-wrote Nigel Mansell's autobiography - he won the '92 championship with a broken ankle and a moustache don't cho know ;)

Strange that Mark made no mention of it.....

[TMorel]

Strange that Mark made no mention of it.....

Apart from in the new book, “Up Front: A season to remember” by Mark Webber, or did you mean strange he didn't use it as an excuse at the time for the (coincidental) dip in performance.

[Mark]

Cos he's always breaking something! If not cars, it's parts of his body!

[Cooper_S]

If this claim is true (and not just some lame excuse as to why he went from leading the WDC to 3rd in four races) then he almost certainly cost himself the WDC and almost cost his team the WCC.

There is a lesson in there somewhere.

[Robinho]

he's hardly going to fake a broken shoulder is he?

that said, he says himself he doesn't think it cost him the title, but it sure as hell won't have helped him, if nothing else its interrupts your preparations and is an extra layer of worry to contend with. Fair play to him for managing it behind the scenes at the time though, although i'd imagine Mr Horner won't be too happy about it, they can hardly stop the drivers going out on bikes, a lot of them cycle as part of their fitness regime and anyone can fall over when jogging, cycling etc and break something, althogh it does seem that someone is usually Mark Webber!

[Cooper_S]

The guy just can't catch a break!

[Cooper_S]

he's hardly going to fake a broken shoulder is he?


I fully accept it as genuine and no doubt Mark felt that keeping it quite from the team he feels don't like him was the right thing to do... He may have thought that Horner would use any excuse to replace him.

[Retro Formula 1]

The guy just can't catch a break!

Problem is, he seems to catch too many of them :D

[gloomyDAY]

Mark, stay the fudge away from mountain bikes!

[N4D13]

Problem is, he seems to catch too many of them :D
You just made my day. :D :rotflmao:

[ioan]

Well, according to Webber's new book (via James Allen (http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/12/new-broken-shoulder-the-cause-of-webbers-slide-at-end-of-season/)), he sustained a minor fracture in his shoulder before the final four races of the season, which might help to explain his relatively bad form in the final part of the season. What do you think?

I think, if true, that he should be more careful in the future not to put his championship changes at stake because of some minor fracture in his shoulder.

[Cooper_S]

I think, if true, that he should be more careful in the future not to put his championship changes at stake because of some minor fracture in his shoulder.

Far be it from me to come to Mark Webber's defence, however many drivers train like this if not more extreme, anyone can have an accident... Jenson button took part in the London triathlon in August.

[ioan]

Far be it from me to come to Mark Webber's defence, however many drivers train like this if not more extreme, anyone can have an accident... Jenson button took part in the London triathlon in August.

I do not dispute JPM's offroad 'tennis' accident, nor Heidfelds biking accident when Williams sent him on gardening leave, however Webber had two occasions where he broke his bones while riding a bike.

[Cooper_S]

He does seem accident prone... maybe next year RBR may insist he sticks to a training in a gym.

[ioan]

He does seem accident prone... maybe next year RBR may insist he sticks to a training in a gym.

That would give him a chance to claim he's the number 2 driver again. ;)

[donKey jote]

Red Bull gives you slings :erm:

[markabilly]

slings and arrrows may break my bones....and donkey's old lady

[CNR]

it is no wonder that he crashed out in Korea

[RJL25]

The bloke is a walking accident... seriously, when he first joined Williams he broke his ribs, he broke most of his body in the lead up to last season, then broke his shoulder or arm or whatever it was again this year. Dude!

Clearly the reason he didn't want to let the team know was because they would have just said "oh well too injured to drive!" which would have made the whole "who should we support for the championship" debate convieniantly null and void.

Was he being paranoid? Probably, he really should have told someone, but I guess he just didn't want to take the risk of the team benching him.

[Cooper_S]

Was he being paranoid? Probably, he really should have told someone, but I guess he just didn't want to take the risk of the team benching him.

Are you suggesting that RBR may have engineered the 'accident'....

[Cooper_S]

I love the irony that Marks book in which he reveals his injury is called 'Up Front' when that was the last thing he was with his team.

[CNR]

Webber must have been struggling to a degree but I wouldn't put his Korea crash down to this. He accelerated his car on a wet kerb which is what Alonso did in Belgium. A driver error as far as I am concerned in that instance. His broken arm might explain his sheer lack of race pace compared to Vettel in the closing rounds though. Theres no point trying to find excuses though and I'm sure Mark wouldn't want this card played. :)

THE pre-race injection helped,
DRUGS AND WHITE LINES

[ShiftingGears]

THE pre-race injection helped,
DRUGS AND WHITE LINES

You don't know that, so don't state it as if it were fact.

[Dave B]

The injections were cleared with the F1 doctor Gary Hartstein, so any suggestion that they were illegal or performance enhancing should be dismissed as gibberish.

The only white line Webber needed to avoid was the slippery one in Korea.

[CNR]

The Painkillers Could Have Slowed His Reaction Time

I Did Not Know That This Place Was Full Of Kids That Have No Idear What Drugs Can Do To Them

[SGWilko]

The Painkillers Could Have Slowed His Reaction Time

I Did Not Know That This Place Was Full Of Kids That Have No Idear What Drugs Can Do To Them

Far out man - Don't do drugs!

OK? Ja.....

[ShiftingGears]

The Painkillers Could Have Slowed His Reaction Time

The injections were cleared by an F1 doctor, so please, enough with the unsubstantiated conjecture. He ran wide and crashed as a result.


I Did Not Know That This Place Was Full Of Kids That Have No Idear What Drugs Can Do To Them

I think if they read your posts they would have a pretty good idea.

[Sonic]

Far out man - Don't do drugs!

OK? Ja.....

Drugs are bad. Don't do drugs. Mmmmkay? Coz drugs are baaad.

[Tumbo]

The Painkillers Could Have Slowed His Reaction Time

I Did Not Know That This Place Was Full Of Kids That Have No Idear What Drugs Can Do To Them

Are you a doctor? Medical student? Health professional? Pharmacologist?

No - well then what you may not realise is that corticosteroid injections are regularly used in these situations the main reason being their local effect and ability to desensitise the area to increased pain; the injury is more likely to have had the impact on his ability to react more than any painkiller

[Bagwan]

Keeping secrets from your boss that would be likely to affect your job performance is horribly dishonest .

With so much at stake , he should have known better .
However , he chose to keep his employer in the dark .

It is being characterized by his fans as a brave move with his "Aussie grit" allowing him to carry on through the pain .

I see it as rather cowardly , not wishing to drop to "number two" status after having broken bone again .
This was , apparently , the first time he'd been back on a bike since he went down with broken bones before .
I understand not wanting to appear an idiot , but effectively lying to the team while undergoing secret cortisone injections in a back room , is pretty wimpy , on one hand , and pretty devious on the other .
How the hell did he keep his team from knowing this was happening ?

Salamander Dundee can't be trusted .
Take his wings away .

[ArrowsFA1]

Keeping secrets from your boss that would be likely to affect your job performance is horribly dishonest.
I'm a little surprised that MW didn't mention it, but as his team boss has said (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88608) it "did not appear to have any effect on his performance" I don't think it's too much of an issue.

I prefer the Webber way to the Mansell way :p Whenever Noige as much as stubbed his toe there seemed to be a press conference for him to detail the "injury" and explain how, despite the pain and disadvantage this would put him at, he would battle on through against the toughest odds ever seen in F1 history :D

[I am evil Homer]

Webber's problem was a broken brain in Korea and seemingly a broken right foot in final race.

[SGWilko]

I'm a little surprised that MW didn't mention it, but as his team boss has said (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88608) it "did not appear to have any effect on his performance" I don't think it's too much of an issue.

I prefer the Webber way to the Mansell way :p Whenever Noige as much as stubbed his toe there seemed to be a press conference for him to detail the "injury" and explain how, despite the pain and disadvantage this would put him at, he would battle on through against the toughest odds ever seen in F1 history :D

Thankfully, Muddly Talker is no longer on the scene to poke his microphone at the injury...... ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

Thankfully, Muddly Talker is no longer on the scene to poke his microphone at the injury...... ;)
:laugh:

[Tazio]

Are you a doctor? Medical student? Health professional? Pharmacologist?

No - well then what you may not realise is that corticosteroid injections are regularly used in these situations the main reason being their local effect and ability to desensitise the area to increased pain; the injury is more likely to have had the impact on his ability to react more than any painkiller

100% correct, and since cortisone is mostly used for tendon and ligament injuries (been there done that) suggest that the fracture was minor but enough to stress tendons in the location that are being unduly stressed. It's an ultra powerful anti-inflammatory.
Cortisone is a steroid and is not the same as a medication like Novocain.
I'm a little surprised that he needed more than one treatment:


And despite needing pain-killing injections ahead of the Japanese and Korean Grands Prix,

I think the fact that he had more than one local injection means he (or his doctor) were trying to use the absolute minimum, as its (cortisone) affects are permanent, and can also affect your adrenal gland where it is produced naturally.
The multiple treatments may also suggest he had a general "steroid cocktail" (Cortisone with another anti-inflammatory) This too would not affect him in any way like a narcotic, and is less likely to permanently affect the tissue in the way the treatments applied locally can.

[Bagwan]

I'm a little surprised that MW didn't mention it, but as his team boss has said (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88608) it "did not appear to have any effect on his performance" I don't think it's too much of an issue.

I prefer the Webber way to the Mansell way :p Whenever Noige as much as stubbed his toe there seemed to be a press conference for him to detail the "injury" and explain how, despite the pain and disadvantage this would put him at, he would battle on through against the toughest odds ever seen in F1 history :D

So , it's not much of an issue that the driver has , again , kept a serious injury from his employer ?

It's ok then , to lie to your boss that you are in top form ?

At least your Noige was honest about it .

You can't say the same for the mountain biker .
At least he kept the secret , and we didn't have to hear him whining about how the biker in front was weaving all over the place .

[Rollo]

German Keeper Bert Trautmann played on in the 1956 FA Cup Final for Manchester City with a broken neck.

Dermott Brereton copped a hit and played on in the 1989 VFL Grand Final (Australian Rules) with a broken ribs and a bruised kidney which caused internal bleeding.

This proves is that Mark Webber is as hard as nails and his name will be added to the Banzuke along with other hard men like Vinnie Jones, Terry Butcher, Martin Skrtel and Mick Doohan who all eat babies and barbed wire for breakfast.

[Tazio]

German Keeper Bert Trautmann played on in the 1956 FA Cup Final for Manchester City with a broken neck.

Dermott Brereton copped a hit and played on in the 1989 VFL Grand Final (Australian Rules) with a broken ribs and a bruised kidney which caused internal bleeding.

This proves is that Mark Webber is as hard as nails and his name will be added to the Banzuke along with other hard men like Vinnie Jones, Terry Butcher, Martin Skrtel and Mick Doohan who all eat babies and barbed wire for breakfast.Those are impressive examples; however I must say they rank below the 1973 Muhammad Ali 12 round fight in which Ken Norton severely broke Ali's jaw in the second round of a 12 round fight. Ali refused to let his trainer Angelo Dundee stop the fight and went the distance only to lose a narrow points decision!


Immediately after the fight, Ali had a 90 minute operation on the jaw. The bones were seperated by a quarter of an inch and the surgeon who rewired them said: "I can't fathom how he could go the whole fight like that!

[555-04Q2]

MW's broken shoulder is old news, is it not :?: And how are his team bosses the last ones to find out anyway :confused:

They were obviously too busy being star gazzed by SV by the looks of it :crazy:

[jens]

I'm not sure, what Webber had to gain from keeping it in secret from the team boss. If anything, everyone would have understood his struggles at the end of the season better. But then again, maybe he didn't want to play the role of a "victim", but a genuine contender instead, who doesn't need to hide behind excuses even if he is struggling.

[ShiftingGears]

I'm not sure, what Webber had to gain from keeping it in secret from the team boss.

Well on the contrary, he didn't have anything to gain by telling everyone about it.

[ShiftingGears]

MW's broken shoulder is old news, is it not :?: And how are his team bosses the last ones to find out anyway :confused:

They were obviously too busy being star gazzed by SV by the looks of it :crazy:

I believe you're thinking about when he broke his shoulder at the start of 2009, which was well documented. As opposed to this story, which only broke earlier this week.

[Hondo]

Back in my young, wild motocross days, I fractured my shoulder in a non-racing accident. It was painful for 2 days and after that was only painful when force was applied, either pushing or pulling, in certain directions and angles. It was never taped, wrapped, put in any kind of support and I never used a sling of any kind. Oddly enough, sitting on and operating my CZ 250 was quite comfortable, causing no pain, and I continued to race on weekends while healing.

It almost seems like Webber is trying to provoke Horner and the team into releasing him before 2011. He should have informed the team unless the team had already told him to lay off the bike during the season. I believe if I owned a team I would require any driver to provide at his expense an insurance policy that reimbursed the team for real and projected financial damages incurred from the loss of full services from that driver due to outside activities.

Webber was wrong on this one.

[555-04Q2]

I believe you're thinking about when he broke his shoulder at the start of 2009, which was well documented. As opposed to this story, which only broke earlier this week.

:up:

[Ari]

Imo a massive error in judgement from Webber.

Needs to understand that although he didn't feel it effected his performance team had a right to know. Particularly considering he needed a few jabs for pain management.

It's not good enough imo. He is a highly paid sportsman and needs to act accordingly. It's not all about him, there are 500 people back at the factory relying on him.

Horner had every reason to be upset and every reason to go to the media. If it was good for Webber to use the media when he was upset surely the same is due to Horner.

I would think Horner has every right to ask/tell Webber not to ride his bike during season, particularly after what happened in Tasmania. The team has enough going on without needing to worry about nursing drivers back to health when they falls of their toys.

An error in judgement from Webber for mine.

[Ari]

Webber must have been struggling to a degree but I wouldn't put his Korea crash down to this. He accelerated his car on a wet kerb which is what Alonso did in Belgium. A driver error as far as I am concerned in that instance. His broken arm might explain his sheer lack of race pace compared to Vettel in the closing rounds though. Theres no point trying to find excuses though and I'm sure Mark wouldn't want this card played. :)

Agree 100%. Question is though, did he end up on the kerb because of a little pain which threw him out a little. But, as I said at the time, I agree his out from the GP was a basic driver error for powering while still on the slippery strip.