OFFICIAL: This means Buemi will be out of STR by mid-season 2011 :)

[Giuseppe F1]

Ricciardo gets STR Friday practice role

By Matt Beer
Friday, November 26th 2010, 17:17 GMT

Daniel Ricciardo will drive for Toro Rosso in Friday practice sessions at all grands prix in 2011, the team has announced.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88501

[Jag_Warrior]

I can't say that I'll miss the lad. IMO, Red Bull/Toro Rosso would have done about as well by keeping Bourdais or Scott Speed and having Alguersuari (though I don't know if he's going to make it either).

[Giuseppe F1]

I can't say that I'll miss the lad. IMO, Red Bull/Toro Rosso would have done about as well by keeping Bourdais or Scott Speed and having Alguersuari (though I don't know if he's going to make it either).

Other than when both his front wheels mysteriously came off his car this year, I cant think of one memorable Buemi moment/performance in his F1 career AT ALL . . . . nor in any of his junior formulae runnings come to think of it! Wouldnt miss him at all

[Sonic]

I do wish STR would just decide who's gonna drive and let them get on with it.

[UltimateDanGTR]

I do wish STR would just decide who's gonna drive and let them get on with it.

Because they don't go about chooisng their driver line ups in quite the same fashion as other teams...they're effectively a breeding ground for drivers who have potential to succeed in F1. They did this with Vettel.

and with this principle, no wonder Bourdais, Speed and maybe Buemi in the future are/will become things of the past in F1; none of them have been that special.....


Having said this I would keep Ricciardo in junior formula for at least one more year, giving him a chance in GP2 would be the logical thing, instead of throwing him in too early like I think they have done with Alguesuari.

[ioan]

Because they don't go about chooisng their driver line ups in quite the same fashion as other teams...they're effectively a breeding ground for drivers who have potential to succeed in F1. They did this with Vettel.

BMW gave Vettel his breakthrough into F1 while RBR were cocooning Coulthard.

[Sonic]

Because they don't go about chooisng their driver line ups in quite the same fashion as other teams...they're effectively a breeding ground for drivers who have potential to succeed in F1..

That's kind of my point. If they don't think that one of their current drivers has a future then why keep them on must to sack them? I feel much the same about Luzzi - he's going nowhere, but having Paul breathing down his neck all season (and taking track time) seemed pointless. Just get him out and give the seat to a deserving driver but give him at least 24 months to get settled.

[CNR]

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=49766

while also confirming he will continue to race in the Formula Renault 3.5 series that he finished runner-up in this year.

[Valve Bounce]

BMW gave Vettel his breakthrough into F1 while RBR were cocooning Coulthard.

It is interesting that Vettel won his first victory for STR in 2008. I thought at the time that it was a fantastic achievement, and I felt that race sealed Vettel's career prospects. Maybe Riciardo will have the same luck.

[maximilian]

Complete waste of Ricciardo's time. He needs to be in a race seat NOW. With proper pre-season testing, he can turn some heads in 2011. He is ready NOW. Screw GP2. :rolleyes:

[ShiftingGears]

If Buemi doesn't up his game and Ricciardo does exceptionally well in Friday Practice, yes, he probably will be out.

[jens]

I cant think of one memorable Buemi moment/performance in his F1 career AT ALL . . . .

Interesting that the most impressive moment I can remember from Buemi's F1 career so far, is his very first F1 race, where he finished 7th (although with the help of a lot of attrition) and beat Bourdais.

Also after his third race (China) Buemi got a fair bit of praise and was considered to be a serious future prospect. Someone (guess that was Garry Walker) considered him to be already a match to Vettel. :D

Overall another example of a driver to show that a hazy early promise means nothing in the long run. Especially as he didn't have a groundbreaking junior record to back it up.

[Valve Bounce]

Complete waste of Ricciardo's time. He needs to be in a race seat NOW. With proper pre-season testing, he can turn some heads in 2011. He is ready NOW. Screw GP2. :rolleyes:

This :up:

[UltimateDanGTR]

BMW gave Vettel his breakthrough into F1 while RBR were cocooning Coulthard.

very true...but STR took him on for a full time race seat to develop him after that. and it worked....

[ioan]

very true...but STR took him on for a full time race seat to develop him after that. and it worked....

BMW wanted to have him for a full race seat too however Red Bull had an option on him and snapped him up after his first F1 race with BMW.
My point is only that RBR didn't give him his break through BMW did, and even when he joined the RBR family they only put him in an STR.

[UltimateDanGTR]

BMW wanted to have him for a full race seat too however Red Bull had an option on him and snapped him up after his first F1 race with BMW.
My point is only that RBR didn't give him his break through BMW did, and even when he joined the RBR family they only put him in an STR.

In that case-we are agreed. My point was that STR served a purpose for Vettel-letting him develop before going on to better things :)

[woody2goody]

It's a shame, as this trend of getting rid of drivers mid-season does nothing for STR's credibility, and Buemi does have the knack of producing solid results when you least expect it.

Alguersuari is probably a better prospect than Buemi, but the Swiss will be in his third season in 2011 and will surely raise his game accordingly.

As for Ricciardo, he hasn't been great in the few races I've seen him in, but he can obviously handle F1 machinery. I really think he should be in GP2 racing full time, as it never helps the current race drivers when another guy is taking their track time.

Paul Di Resta undoubtedly is a good driver, but I think Force India dropped the ball by taking time off of Liuzzi and Sutil, especially as both of their performances dropped off a fair bit in the second half of the season.

[woody2goody]

BMW wanted to have him for a full race seat too however Red Bull had an option on him and snapped him up after his first F1 race with BMW.
My point is only that RBR didn't give him his break through BMW did, and even when he joined the RBR family they only put him in an STR.

BMW were sorted for drivers at the time though. In 2007 Heidfeld was in the form of his career so far, and Kubica may as well be considered as an equal of Vettel anyway.

[Sonic]

.

Paul Di Resta undoubtedly is a good driver, but I think Force India dropped the ball by taking time off of Liuzzi and Sutil, especially as both of their performances dropped off a fair bit in the second half of the season.

This :up:

Either stick Paul in the race seat or let the race drivers get on with their work.

[gloomyDAY]

Complete waste of Ricciardo's time. He needs to be in a race seat NOW. With proper pre-season testing, he can turn some heads in 2011. He is ready NOW. Screw GP2. :rolleyes: Preach it brother!

[Sleeper]

Complete waste of Ricciardo's time. He needs to be in a race seat NOW. With proper pre-season testing, he can turn some heads in 2011. He is ready NOW. Screw GP2. :rolleyes:
No, he needs a year in GP2 (I fail to see the point in keeping him in Renault 3.5). Remember that Jaime had a similarly impressive junior formula track record before being thrown in at the deep end with STR mid season, and he wasnt ready.

[Ranger]

No, he needs a year in GP2 (I fail to see the point in keeping him in Renault 3.5). Remember that Jaime had a similarly impressive junior formula track record before being thrown in at the deep end with STR mid season, and he wasnt ready.

FR3.5 is probably more compatible with F1 weekends, allowing more actual time in an F1 car.

Alguersuari had NO time in an F1 car before Hungary last year. Ricciardo has already had 4 whole days of testing, and will have a season full of Friday practices.

Worth noting that Vettel was outpaced by Liuzzi in every race in STR until Japan 2007, when the shackles came off.

[maximilian]

No, he needs a year in GP2 (I fail to see the point in keeping him in Renault 3.5). Remember that Jaime had a similarly impressive junior formula track record before being thrown in at the deep end with STR mid season, and he wasnt ready.
With all due respect, Daniel has as more talent in his bellybutton than all of AlgaeBoy taken together.

And that's also why I said "with proper pre-season testing", i.e. plenty of time in the car to get used to it. Then all he'd need to do is learn the tracks as he goes.

It WOULD be a stupid mistake by STR to enter him mid-season instead of giving him the benefit of pre-season testing. I am convinced he'd do great, based on his pace in the test sessions already.

[Valve Bounce]

With all due respect, Daniel has as more talent in his bellybutton than all of AlgaeBoy taken together.

And that's also why I said "with proper pre-season testing", i.e. plenty of time in the car to get used to it. Then all he'd need to do is learn the tracks as he goes.

It WOULD be a stupid mistake by STR to enter him mid-season instead of giving him the benefit of pre-season testing. I am convinced he'd do great, based on his pace in the test sessions already.

I fully agree. Why is such a simple concept so difficult to understand? Some guys need a hard mallet contact with their crania. :eek:

[ioan]

...and Kubica may as well be considered as an equal of Vettel anyway.

Subjectively only. Objectively Vettel has already outclassed Kubica by a huge margin.

[Valve Bounce]

Subjectively only. Objectively Vettel has already outclassed Kubica by a huge margin.

I feel we will see a better driver as Vettel matures - he may well be unbeatable, on equal terms, in years to come.

[ArrowsFA1]

With all due respect, Daniel has as more talent in his bellybutton than all of AlgaeBoy taken together.
He's shown potential certainly, but performing well in F3 & Renault 3.5 is very different to delivering in F1. In the lower formulae you can never be too sure how strong the competition is, but in F1 you're against the best.

[I am evil Homer]

In that case-we are agreed. My point was that STR served a purpose for Vettel-letting him develop before going on to better things :)

Except STR then and STR now are two different things....current STR will not be competitive without RBR's cast offs.

[MrJan]

Subjectively only. Objectively Vettel has already outclassed Kubica by a huge margin.

Largely because the Red Bull is streets ahead of the Renault. The results (and the WDC) show that Vettel is much better but I would be interested to see them in more equal cars. I think that the performances of Kubica in a sub-standard car have been very impressive.

[DexDexter]

No offense to Buemi or Jaime but I think part of the reason STR is taking a dive is that they've got two inexperienced drivers who are probably a bit lost when it comes to telling the team what to do with the car. IMO it's a better chassis than this year showed. Maybe they'll get some new drawings from somewhere for next year but in reality IMO they need one experienced driver if they are to be taken seriously.

[maximilian]

He's shown potential certainly, but performing well in F3 & Renault 3.5 is very different to delivering in F1. In the lower formulae you can never be too sure how strong the competition is, but in F1 you're against the best.
Which is exactly why he needs to be in F1. Consistently topping all the test sessions he's been in (and not just by a small margin, either!) means that he certainly knows what to do with F1 machinery even with so far minimal experience. After all, that's the whole point of testing new drivers... the fastest ones should get to race, right? Else what's the point? :rolleyes: And he's already done TWO of these annual driver tests, each time impressing massively.

I disagree on needing an experienced driver to develop the STR. They need a TALENTED driver more than anything. Another Jarno Trulli in the STR will take the team nowhere, but a young super-talented driver can elevate the entire squad to new levels. Just like Vettel did back then.

[ArrowsFA1]

...After all, that's the whole point of testing new drivers... the fastest ones should get to race, right? Else what's the point?.
In an ideal world, yes, they'd get the chance to race, but as we know F1 places are limited.

For every Hamilton or Vettel there are ten or more like Jan Magnussen or Tommy Byrne who look the business in the likes of F3 but don't translate that talent into F1 success for whatever reason. If teams dropped one or both of their drivers for 'the next big thing' F1 would be a revolving door!

The restrictions on testing have made things far worse. Emerging talents do not get seat time and so F1 teams cannot evaluate those drivers very well. In addition to that drivers new to F1 are frequently not given time to establish themselves.

[wattoroos]

the thing about practices, it shows the best time but a race last for around 50-70 laps and consistentsy is more important and that is something dan can work on in practice sessions and i also dont want to see hime be chucked in a race seat half-way through because he is better off driving a car that not 'perfect' which is the way he described the red bull because he is not going to jump straight to red bull

[maximilian]

the thing about practices, it shows the best time but a race last for around 50-70 laps and consistentsy is more important and that is something dan can work on in practice sessions and i also dont want to see hime be chucked in a race seat half-way through because he is better off driving a car that not 'perfect' which is the way he described the red bull because he is not going to jump straight to red bull

I guess consistency IS more important, that's why they keep AlgaeBoy, who CONSISTENTLY finished in 11th place :rolleyes: Why reward consistent mediocrity?

The day consistency becomes more important than speed, it's time to stop watch racing and play shuffleboard instead... ;)



For every Hamilton or Vettel there are ten or more like Jan Magnussen or Tommy Byrne who look the business in the likes of F3 but don't translate that talent into F1 success for whatever reason. If teams dropped one or both of their drivers for 'the next big thing' F1 would be a revolving door!
Exactly the point again... at least Ricciardo DID look good in the lower formulae, which is more than can be said for the 2 clowns who are blocking the STR cockpits at the moment, and who have brought STR CONSISTENTLY mediocre to poor results. Under those 2, STR went from a race winning team back to being Minardi all over again - where they started, as the backmarkers (never mind the hapless new teams). And I don't wanna hear all the whining about how they had to build their own car, bla2... every team has to do that, and they knew it was coming, had plenty of time to prepare, and plenty of money (and don't tell me they didn't get to "borrow" a few great ideas from RBR under the table, regardless!). So a lion share of the blame has to go to the drivers, who just weren't able to develop the car sufficiently to make it a midfield runner or better. It takes talent to do such a thing. Vettel did it. And I am sure Ricciardo could do it, too.

[Sonic]

I guess consistency IS more important, that's why they keep AlgaeBoy, who CONSISTENTLY finished in 11th place :rolleyes: Why reward consistent mediocrity?

The day consistency becomes more important than speed, it's time to stop watch racing and play shuffleboard instead... ;)



Exactly the point again... at least Ricciardo DID look good in the lower formulae, which is more than can be said for the 2 clowns who are blocking the STR cockpits at the moment, and who have brought STR CONSISTENTLY mediocre to poor results. Under those 2, STR went from a race winning team back to being Minardi all over again - where they started, as the backmarkers (never mind the hapless new teams). And I don't wanna hear all the whining about how they had to build their own car, bla2... every team has to do that, and they knew it was coming, had plenty of time to prepare, and plenty of money (and don't tell me they didn't get to "borrow" a few great ideas from RBR under the table, regardless!). So a lion share of the blame has to go to the drivers, who just weren't able to develop the car sufficiently to make it a midfield runner or better. It takes talent to do such a thing. Vettel did it. And I am sure Ricciardo could do it, too.

Whilst I do agree with you that the STR drivers are average at best, it is unfair to lay all the blame at their door. It should be noted that STR were the last of the established teams to get an F duct on the car - I'm not even sure if they ran it in a race. Perhaps someone will know?

Anyway, that shows that the package was not developed, thus removing ALL of the blame from the drivers.

That said I'm all for getting Ric in the seat.

[ArrowsFA1]

I guess consistency IS more important, that's why they keep AlgaeBoy, who CONSISTENTLY finished in 11th place :rolleyes: Why reward consistent mediocrity?
Perhaps because the team recognise that, given the car and his experience, Alguersuari has done a good job.

Tost said that this year Alguersuari had a chance to build experience and settle into F1 properly, and that with a full season under his belt, he was now poised for an impressive 2011 - provided Toro Rosso gave him a competitive car.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88472

"Competitive car" is key. I don't believe for a moment that Vettel would have won a race with this year's Toro Rosso. He may have managed that in a STR/Red Bull but it is often forgotten that his team mate was very quick that weekend as well. That suggests that the car, rather than any one driver, was the key.

You say that 11th place was "consistent mediocrity" but STR had eight teams ahead of them in the WCC standings. That equates to 16 cars. Under those conditions 11th is pretty good IMHO.

I don't doubt Ricciardo's credentials or potential, but I'm not convinced that STR's position would be improved much, if at all, by dropping one of their drivers now. Clearly though they are both under pressure in the first part of 2011.

[maximilian]

I just think they have nothing to lose by shaking things up a bit. When you're "last", then there's no point in trying to hold on to whatever you were doing... and that includes the drivers :)

And again, I DO believe that a very talented driver has the ability to elevate the entire team, motivate everybody to do better, bring in more sponsors, attract better mechanics, engineering talent, etc.

[Sonic]

I just think they have nothing to lose by shaking things up a bit. When you're "last", then there's no point in trying to hold on to whatever you were doing... and that includes the drivers :)

And again, I DO believe that a very talented driver has the ability to elevate the entire team, motivate everybody to do better, bring in more sponsors, attract better mechanics, engineering talent, etc.

Your last point is excellent. But is Ric that driver? Talented? Yes. Good enough to pull the team around him? No idea - there have only been a handful of guys like that.

[DexDexter]

In reality Toro Rosso's next season depends on who designs the car. I know everyone needs to build their own car but what if they somehow get the data of this year's Red Bull, stranger things have happened. :D What do you think?

[DexDexter]

In reality Toro Rosso's next season depends on who designs the car. I know everyone needs to built their own car but what if they somehow get the data of this year's Red Bull, stranger things have happened? :D What do you think?

Just make the necessary changes to comply with the new regulations...

[UltimateDanGTR]

Ofcourse, we must remember you don't have to stand out in the junior formulae particularly to be a star in F1...

for proof, see 'Kamui Kobyashi' :)

[maximilian]

Your last point is excellent. But is Ric that driver? Talented? Yes. Good enough to pull the team around him? No idea - there have only been a handful of guys like that.
Yes, true... names like Alonso and Vettel come to mind there. The thing is, though... neither Buëmi nor Alguersuari is "that" driver for sure, so if STR seriously want to up their game, then perhaps it's time to try their luck with someone new... and Daniel is about as good a prospect as there is out there anywhere at the moment. :cool:

[Hawkmoon]

I have a solution to this problem of where to put young drivers. It's total fantasy and will never happen but what the hell?

F1 should have a junior or B level championship that runs in with current cars on GP weekends. Each team brings a third car for a third driver, say under the age of 25, and they have a race, on a Sunday morning, as a curtain raiser to the main event.

We get to see how good Ricciardo is in current machinery, against other young drivers in a race situation, as opposed to just testing.

Now I know people will automatically say it's too expensive but I think that's bull****. F1 is looking to spice up the action and is going to have to spend something to do that. Why not test young drivers and provide fans with more racing at the same time?

Wouldn't it be good to see Bianchi in a Ferrari vs Ricciardo in a Red Bull vs Bird in a Mercedes in something that was a much more meaningful than testing?

[wattoroos]

I have a solution to this problem of where to put young drivers. It's total fantasy and will never happen but what the hell?

F1 should have a junior or B level championship that runs in with current cars on GP weekends. Each team brings a third car for a third driver, say under the age of 25, and they have a race, on a Sunday morning, as a curtain raiser to the main event.

We get to see how good Ricciardo is in current machinery, against other young drivers in a race situation, as opposed to just testing.

Now I know people will automatically say it's too expensive but I think that's bull****. F1 is looking to spice up the action and is going to have to spend something to do that. Why not test young drivers and provide fans with more racing at the same time?

Wouldn't it be good to see Bianchi in a Ferrari vs Ricciardo in a Red Bull vs Bird in a Mercedes in something that was a much more meaningful than testing?

i think thats really good actually but i wonder if they would televise this and how long would you make the races, but i think gp2 should just become a series that follows f1 everywhere o get taste of the tracks as the f1 teams wouldnt worry about making the third car brilliant

[maximilian]

Even if the 3rd driver races may not be feasible, it would at least be great to see the 3rd drivers back in action in a 3rd car during some or even all practice sessions.

I don't know whatever happened to cars these days, it seems like even established teams have a hard time sometimes scraping up enough parts for even 2 cars, where in the past it was no big deal to have a spare car or 2 along, but it couldn't be THAT hard to have a 3rd car in there.

Cost prohibitive? Well, the larger teams can certainly afford it, and I would imagine that some of the smaller teams could actually be selling off the seat for additional sponsor money to some pay drivers - with 3 full practice sessions to contend, I would think it would be a much more attractive proposition for sponsors to chip in, and their protegee would have a much better chance to turn some heads with good practice times, rather than the current silly system of having to sit out one of the race drivers so someone like d'Ambrosio can spend his sponsor dollars.

Rather than having the 3rd drivers all compete in their own race (which they often do in GP2 anyways, and in more comparable machinery), and risking race incident damage, it would be much more interesting to compare them to the 2 race drivers of the same team (and the rest of the established field) for a better understanding of how good they may or may not be.

All the teams already bring 3 drivers to the races anyways, even the small ones... might as well use them! The teams would then benefit from the additional testing data, the 3rd drivers from the additional practice - they would be much better prepared to step in as reserve should the need arise. It sounds like a win/win situation to me. And we all know what that means!! :)

[Ari]

With all due respect, Daniel has as more talent in his bellybutton than all of AlgaeBoy taken together.

And that's also why I said "with proper pre-season testing", i.e. plenty of time in the car to get used to it. Then all he'd need to do is learn the tracks as he goes.

It WOULD be a stupid mistake by STR to enter him mid-season instead of giving him the benefit of pre-season testing. I am convinced he'd do great, based on his pace in the test sessions already.

Agree with this.

Also, and most importantly. I believe in a driver having the off-season to mentally prepare and play out in their mind what needs to be done. Particularly a rookie driver.

Dragging them in half way is not ideal a all.

[rjbetty]

I have a solution to this problem of where to put young drivers. It's total fantasy and will never happen but what the hell?

F1 should have a junior or B level championship that runs in with current cars on GP weekends. Each team brings a third car for a third driver, say under the age of 25, and they have a race, on a Sunday morning, as a curtain raiser to the main event.

We get to see how good Ricciardo is in current machinery, against other young drivers in a race situation, as opposed to just testing.

Now I know people will automatically say it's too expensive but I think that's bull****. F1 is looking to spice up the action and is going to have to spend something to do that. Why not test young drivers and provide fans with more racing at the same time?

Wouldn't it be good to see Bianchi in a Ferrari vs Ricciardo in a Red Bull vs Bird in a Mercedes in something that was a much more meaningful than testing?

Sounds like a VERY good idea to me.

Also, where can Nico Hulkenberg get a drive? What about Toro Rosso?

[jens]

Maximilian's agenda, how Vettel "developed" STR in 2008 and current drivers aren't doing it, doesn't make much sense to be honest. Vettel was quite inexperienced at the time, so he didn't know about "car development/feedback" much unlike currently highly rated development drivers Barrichello/Wurz/de la Rosa, etc know. I suspect Bourdais had actually more influence in these matters at the time.'

The second half of 2008 has been the only period, when STR has outperformed RBR, but that was mainly down to STR having basically equal chassis to RBR plus finally proper adjusting to the Ferrari engine, which happened to be a superior one at the time. But that was the end of the period of consistency in the rules, to which STR had finally adapted. For 2009 STR was left in a mess with new rules and to be honest, I don't think Red Bull has put in much effort to try to make Toro Rosso competitive since then.

Probably after 2008 Red Bull realized that if they really want to succeed in F1, they must put most of the effort into their A-team, which has left STR struggling at the back. And Red Bull doesn't seem too interested in elevating them upwards in the rankings - they are happy just to exist there.

Talking about pre-F1 credentials, it has been forgotten that Alguersuari is also British F3 champion like Ricciardo.