Racism

[CaptainRaiden]

I overheard a couple last evening, standing in line to get a table at a restaurant. I'm guessing brother and sister, because she was asking the guy about his time studying in the UK etc. Didn't seem like a couple, anyway the conversation went like this:

Guy: So, on one of the off days, it was 2 Swedish guys, and us two Romanians, and 4 Kenyan guys, we went for a trip to Cardiff.

Girl: Oh, 4 Kenyan guys. Ha ha, so each one of you got a slave each, ha ha. Did you have the leash on them?

Guy: That's not funny.

Girl: Oh come on, you know you're laughing.

Guy: Still not funny.
===========================================

Is it still 2010 or did I just time travel back some 100 odd years? :confused:

[Mark]

Blimey. He's right, not funny!

[Dave B]

Indeed.

There's nothing funny about a trip to Cardiff.

[Bolton Midnight]

Ahh but was she fit though?

[CaptainRaiden]

Indeed.

There's nothing funny about a trip to Cardiff.

:laugh: Is it really that bad? Heard someone say it smelled like fish all over the place.

[CaptainRaiden]

Ahh but was she fit though?

Don't know, didn't look. They were right behind me though, and talking quite loud. I don't understand the language, and it was later translated to me when I was inside. I'm sure she must have been a "classy" lady. :p

[Mark in Oshawa]

Sad....really sad....but I guess when you are going to Cardiff...you lose your sense of humour....

[#1JamesThompsonFan]

:laugh: Is it really that bad? Heard someone say it smelled like fish all over the place.

I never knew sheep smelt like fish lol

Just hope tere wasnt a cheese sause to go with it lol

Im sorry if im the only person whofinds thatfunny lol

[race aficionado]

Racism sucks.


:s mokin:

[J4MIE]

I really like Cardiff and wouldn't mind moving there some day :up:

I also love Kenya, best place I have ever visited :up:

[J4MIE]

I really like Cardiff and wouldn't mind moving there some day :up:

I also love Kenya, best place I have ever visited :up:

[glauistean]

I have family of mixed race. This week being Thanksgiving it is a sad situation that the maternal grandfather will not share a meal with us as these kids will be there. The children of my dead niece. 6 and 8. Two beautiful little girls and the daughters of his own daughter. He has two grandsons from a mixed race too. Hispanic/Latin but they are fine because they are mostly white.

His other daughter married a guy from Taiwan (lived here since he was 2) and there is no problem there.

Just because they are half African American. The good 'ole south. Time has stood still for this man. He is only 62 so he can't say he lived through anything.

[Mark]

I find such attitudes completely impossible to comprehend. I mean, his own family?!

[F1boat]

Yeah, shocking :(

[fandango]

I have family of mixed race. This week being Thanksgiving it is a sad situation that the maternal grandfather will not share a meal with us as these kids will be there. ....

That's really sad, but eveyone's probably better off without him being there if that's his attitude.

However, I think there's a big difference between that and the example in the first post. I wouldn't call that racism, more just plain old stupidity. People are always opening their mouth without engaging their brain, but I don't think it's a good idea to label them because of stupid comments.

I'm a foreigner in the country I live in, so if I get into discussion it often arrives to the "well that may be what you think, but in this country..." I don't think of it as prejudice. People should be allowed a little leeway to be a bit stupid, or else you'll have people getting arrested because of idle comments...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/nov/22/twitter-joke-trial-paul-chambers-appeal

[Dave B]

My favourite racists - if that's not oxymoronic - are those fat sunburnt English to move to the Costa del Sol, find a bar which shows Sky Sports and serves a full English breakfast, read The Sun, call the waiters "Oi Pedro" and moan about how that had to move out of Britain because of all the bloody foreigners coming over here.

[ryan92]

My favourite racists - if that's not oxymoronic - are those fat sunburnt English to move to the Costa del Sol, find a bar which shows Sky Sports and serves a full English breakfast, read The Sun, call the waiters "Oi Pedro" and moan about how that had to move out of Britain because of all the bloody foreigners coming over here.

I must admit, when I go to greece and i hear about british tourists on a club 18:30 holiday trashing things in town and being offensive to the locals, it makes me quite embarrassed to be British...

[gadjo_dilo]

The girl was joking but I'm afraid foreigners can't understand our humour. I reckon it's a bit unusual for you but it used to help us during tough times.

[anthonyvop]

Racism sucks.


:s mokin:

Yea but it can e funny.

[wedge]

I overheard a couple last evening, standing in line to get a table at a restaurant. I'm guessing brother and sister, because she was asking the guy about his time studying in the UK etc. Didn't seem like a couple, anyway the conversation went like this:

Guy: So, on one of the off days, it was 2 Swedish guys, and us two Romanians, and 4 Kenyan guys, we went for a trip to Cardiff.

Girl: Oh, 4 Kenyan guys. Ha ha, so each one of you got a slave each, ha ha. Did you have the leash on them?

Guy: That's not funny.

Girl: Oh come on, you know you're laughing.

Guy: Still not funny.
===========================================

Is it still 2010 or did I just time travel back some 100 odd years? :confused:

You think that's bad?

The weekend just gone I walked past a conversation which involved a guy who finished work covered in grime and said: "I need to go home and wash myself, I look like a n***** blackie"

[CaptainRaiden]

The girl was joking but I'm afraid foreigners can't understand our humour. I reckon it's a bit unusual for you but it used to help us during tough times.

Oh come on. It's not something so complicated to understand. How come the guy didn't find that funny, since he was Romanian too? Not only did she make a completely stupid and inappropriate joke, but it shows her upbringing and really blatant racism which is there and so obvious to see. Would you talk like this about another human being? Classless.

And by the way, this is not the first time I've come across a racist incident here. Many more to tell you if you're interested. But this is not saying the country is full of them, I have met some genuinely good, decent human beings as well, some of them amazing people, kind and only with good intentions.

It's the same story with every country really, you'll run into both types of people everywhere, but the divide seems to be more in Eastern European countries.

[gadjo_dilo]

Oh come on. It's not something so complicated to understand. How come the guy didn't find that funny, since he was Romanian too? . .

Easy answer: The guy was studying in UK. That's a good excuse for losing the authentic balkanic sense of humour. :laugh:



Would you talk like this about another human being? Classless. .
We take this things light hearted. We like to make such jokes but don't really hate people ( well, except for gipsies... ). I belong to an ethnic minority and even my friends and colleagues use to tease me about it. I really don't care and I use to have a good laugh.



And by the way, this is not the first time I've come across a racist incident here. .

In case you haven't noticed yet the main targets of our jokes are ourselves. On the other hand romanians are themselves the target of (real) racist incidents abroad. And they aren' t bothered too much...

You might say we have thick skin, I'd rather think you're too sensitive...
Once again, it's a matter of humour.
In this part of the world even the dramas have comical accents. ( And of course our comedies have a tragical note ).

[CaptainRaiden]

In case you haven't noticed yet the main targets of our jokes are ourselves. On the other hand romanians are themselves the target of (real) racist incidents abroad. And they aren' t bothered too much...

You might say we have thick skin, I'd rather think you're too sensitive...
Once again, it's a matter of humour.
In this part of the world even the dramas have comical accents. ( And of course our comedies have a tragical note ).

Humor, really? Okay, well let me tell you some of the things I have gone through in the past year or so here. I'm from the southern part of India, so I have naturally tanned dark skin, darker than let's say an average Indian.

1. The moment I got down at the Otopeni airport at Bucharest and went to the Gara de Nord train station, I was treated with a nice "Wassup nig***" by some taxi drivers, followed by some more slur words in Romanian. Now, if that's supposed to be funny, then I really don't get the sense of humor here. For some reason, people think I'm American. :confused: Been asked that on more than one occasion.

2. My wife, who's a Romanian, her brother fainted on the street and was admitted to the hospital, where the chief "doctor" instead of running tests on the poor guy was too concerned with who I am and where I come from. Called my wife in his office and interrogated her about me. Then, sent him to the "contagious diseases" unit, where his condition worsened.

He was then sent back to a bigger, better hospital where they FINALLY ran some proper tests, and it turned out that he had a blood clot in his veins, because of too much smoking, drinking and sitting too long, which with further delay could have gotten to his heart and proved deadly. How amazed are you at the idiot doctor's "diagnosis"?

3. Went to the Transylvania region to do some sightseeing, to see the famous castle, and also some smaller towns etc. and it seems I'm a walking freakshow on the street. EVERY single person looking at me with a WTF? stamped on their forehead. And the evening was topped off with some more "Wassup nigg**" thrown at my way.

And to top all of this, I've heard people making classless, tasteless jokes about African guys for no sane reason, which aren't funny in the least bit, and have nothing to do with Romania's history, communism or Ceaucescu.

Then one of my friends went to Poland, and was given a banana on the street, followed by of course some more slur words, and hence my comment about Eastern Europe. And then you have things like these:

W-iRLmaZf4A

And it's not really funny anymore. Like I said before, I've also met genuinely good human beings who have been nothing but been extremely nice to me, and that seems to balance it out, but that's not to say I haven't had bad experiences.

[CaptainRaiden]

The girl was joking but I'm afraid foreigners can't understand our humour. I reckon it's a bit unusual for you but it used to help us during tough times.

And also man, I'm not really bombarding these accusations against your country, so no need to be on the defensive. It was just a ridiculous thing that I heard, and so posted it. I would have done the same thing if I'd heard such crap in any other country on the planet.

And I understand that almost every country has racism in one form or another. India itself has a lot of racism in so many ways, it's mind boggling. Some of the things I've heard about and seen, sometimes makes me feel ashamed to be an Indian.

[Mark in Oshawa]

X...the sad reality of it is, Europeans used to ridicule the Americans for their views on blacks and their place in America. Yet, most of the openly rude racism is in Europe....towards blacks, Indians, Arabs, Turks, Gypsy's or Jews. Not to say everyone in Europe is racist, but racism and bigotry is alive in well everywhere in the civilized world. The thing is, sometimes it is institutionalized and not what it appears to be.....

[CaptainRaiden]

X...the sad reality of it is, Europeans used to ridicule the Americans for their views on blacks and their place in America. Yet, most of the openly rude racism is in Europe....towards blacks, Indians, Arabs, Turks, Gypsy's or Jews. Not to say everyone in Europe is racist, but racism and bigotry is alive in well everywhere in the civilized world. The thing is, sometimes it is institutionalized and not what it appears to be.....

I pretty much agree with that. Sadly this is how it is, and probably will remain this way for years to come. It seems people assume things about a certain group based upon what they see in the movies, not news, but movies and some exaggerated documentaries. Then these assumptions are passed onto newer generations, who of course take it to another level. You don't even have to go farther than Youtube to see some of the most blatant racism. Uneducated kids with a keyboard.

What I don't understand is why people can't just shut the F up on the streets. What compels these morons to say SOME thing? It's like it's impossible for them to just get on with their business. It beats me, because I for one wouldn't go around calling names if I saw some foreigners in my city.

[Eki]

For some reason, people think I'm American. :confused: Been asked that on more than one occasion.

Times change. In the days of Columbus, people thought Americans were Indians. Now it's the other way around. But still people haven't learnt much.

[airshifter]

What I don't understand is why people can't just shut the F up on the streets. What compels these morons to say SOME thing? It's like it's impossible for them to just get on with their business. It beats me, because I for one wouldn't go around calling names if I saw some foreigners in my city.

Sadly racism (and many other non race based stereotypes) are often used as a way to somehow make an idiot feel superior. It's often those morons who excel at nothing that use it as a way to make themselves feel better.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I pretty much agree with that. Sadly this is how it is, and probably will remain this way for years to come. It seems people assume things about a certain group based upon what they see in the movies, not news, but movies and some exaggerated documentaries. Then these assumptions are passed onto newer generations, who of course take it to another level. You don't even have to go farther than Youtube to see some of the most blatant racism. Uneducated kids with a keyboard.

What I don't understand is why people can't just shut the F up on the streets. What compels these morons to say SOME thing? It's like it's impossible for them to just get on with their business. It beats me, because I for one wouldn't go around calling names if I saw some foreigners in my city.

It is troubling....I don't get that. You don't see that in Canada, and very very rarely maybe in the US....maybe being in a nation full of immigrants teaches you that there is no way you can justify that crap!

[gadjo_dilo]

1. The moment I got down at the Otopeni airport at Bucharest and went to the Gara de Nord train station, I was treated with a nice "Wassup nig***" by some taxi drivers, followed by some more slur words in Romanian. Now, if that's supposed to be funny, then I really don't get the sense of humor here. For some reason, people think I'm American. :confused: Been asked that on more than one occasion..
That's really weird. Speaking about dark skinned people romanians don't use the term "nig***" but the more trivial "crow" .


2. My wife, who's a Romanian, her brother fainted on the street and was admitted to the hospital, where the chief "doctor" instead of running tests on the poor guy was too concerned with who I am and where I come from. Called my wife in his office and interrogated her about me. Then, sent him to the "contagious diseases" unit, where his condition worsened...
Ha! This happens to everybody regardless colour of the skin, nationality, gender, age, religion, sexual orientation, etc. Actually " the death of mr. Lazarescu " - if you know what I mean- is a fact.
I think they "smelled" you're a foreigner and hoped to get "something" more.


How amazed are you at the idiot doctor's "diagnosis"?
Not amazed at all. :laugh:
But I'm sure the diagnosis has nothing to do with the fact you're indian :laugh:



3. Went to the Transylvania region to do some sightseeing, to see the famous castle, and also some smaller towns etc. and it seems I'm a walking freakshow on the street. EVERY single person looking at me with a WTF? stamped on their forehead. And the evening was topped off with some more "Wassup nigg**" thrown at my way."
So what? At the same time there are foreigners who still think that transylvanians are vampires. :laugh:
Now seriously, Transylvania is usually considered the civilised part of the country and the region you visited ( Bran-Brasov-Rasnov? ) was under a strong german influence. A dark skinned person on the street is not a curiosity and I'm sure you have an obsession with people staring at you.



And it's not really funny anymore. Like I said before, I've also met genuinely good human beings who have been nothing but been extremely nice to me, and that seems to balance it out, but that's not to say I haven't had bad experiences.

But I have such bad experiences myself despite being white skinned and " one of them". There are always some rude guys who make trivial comments. What I'm trying to underline is that they do these not because of hatred but because they're generally uneducated..[/QUOTE]



And also man, I'm not really bombarding these accusations against your country, so no need to be on the defensive. It was just a ridiculous thing that I heard, and so posted it. I would have done the same thing if I'd heard such crap in any other country on the planet. .

I'm not defensive at all. I'm aware I'm not living in the best place of the world and I admit its low points . I'm just trying to make you understand our mentality. And we might be thiefs, unloyal, hypocrites, uneducated but not racists.


P.S. Coming back to the case in the restaurant. You just reproduced a conversation. Unfortunately I can't associate it with the voices of the characters which in most of the cases has a serious contribution in understanding their real feelings. More than that you seem to don't know romanian language and the text was translated to you afterwards. That makes me again think that your association was wrong.

[Mark]

It does seen ingrained "you're different from everyone else so you are inferior". In School it can be for any reason, you're tall, you're short, you're stupid, you're smart

[gadjo_dilo]

I'll have to try that joke in the pub on Friday, although I'd probably get my head kicked in and with good reason. :)

Yeah, I've noticed the reactions of drunk british guys.... :laugh: :laugh:

[CaptainRaiden]

That's really weird. Speaking about dark skinned people romanians don't use the term "nig***" but the more trivial "crow" .

Haha, don't worry about it, I was called a "cioara" following the nice and lovely "wassup nigg**". I mentioned it in my previous post when I talked about the Romanian slur words.


Ha! This happens to everybody regardless colour of the skin, nationality, gender, age, religion, sexual orientation, etc. Actually " the death of mr. Lazarescu " - if you know what I mean- is a fact.
I think they "smelled" you're a foreigner and hoped to get "something" more.

I don't think any sane and professional doctor would just look at someone and assume something without running the necessary proper tests. And frankly, this never happened to me ever before, and I have lived in different countries for varying periods of time because of work.


Now seriously, Transylvania is usually considered the civilised part of the country and the region you visited ( Bran-Brasov-Rasnov? ) was under a strong german influence. A dark skinned person on the street is not a curiosity and I'm sure you have an obsession with people staring at you.

LOL. Now this is rich. I'm a paranoid foreigner walking on the streets obsessed with people staring at me. :laugh: You know, you have to accept things as truth when someone tells you something. Not to diss at your countrymen or something, but the way people here are assertive about things they have no idea about, is quite scary as well. For example, there was a guy in some pub arguing with me about India, telling ME how things are there. :eek:

How are you "sure" that I'm obsessing with this, when you haven't walked in my shoes or actually have never experienced anything like this? When you have an old woman stop right in her tracks in front of you as you pass her by, then turn her head and keep staring until the end of the street, you know you're an alien. :laugh:

And secondly, what does a German influence have to do anything with a dark skinned person on the street not being a curiosity? I had people pointing at me from across the street. It was weird! And yes, this is not racism, but I never said it was. BTW it was Sighisoara, Petrosani etc in the Transylvania region, and this is also where I met some of the most genuinely good human beings, friendly, civilized, kind, hospitable and always with a smile on their face. :)


But I have such bad experiences myself despite being white skinned and " one of them". There are always some rude guys who make trivial comments. What I'm trying to underline is that they do these not because of hatred but because they're generally uneducated..

Well, that's damn right. Education always plays a big role in all of this. Usually I've had problems with uneducated idiots, while the educated fellas have no problems. But that doctor was educated you know. :p


I'm not defensive at all. I'm aware I'm not living in the best place of the world and I admit its low points . I'm just trying to make you understand our mentality. And we might be thiefs, unloyal, hypocrites, uneducated but not racists.

Dude, relax. I'm not branding the whole country as racist, but you can't deny that still there are people still who are quite blatantly racist, and this is the case with every country on this planet. Hell, I saw a group of young Romanian teenagers with swastika stickers, proclaiming to be from a Neo Nazi group. What do you call that?


P.S. Coming back to the case in the restaurant. You just reproduced a conversation. Unfortunately I can't associate it with the voices of the characters which in most of the cases has a serious contribution in understanding their real feelings. More than that you seem to don't know romanian language and the text was translated to you afterwards. That makes me again think that your association was wrong.

True that I don't understand the language, just some words here and there, but the person who translated it to me is actually a professional translator working for European companies. Plus, she has no reason to lie. So, yeah, I would trust her translation and her judgment on this.

[Eki]

And I understand that almost every country has racism in one form or another. India itself has a lot of racism in so many ways, it's mind boggling. Some of the things I've heard about and seen, sometimes makes me feel ashamed to be an Indian.
Not sure if it's exactly racism, but the caste system in India doesn't fit the modern world IMO. How strong is it India nowadays?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India

[CaptainRaiden]

Not sure if it's exactly racism, but the caste system in India doesn't fit the modern world IMO. How strong is it India nowadays?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India

That's mostly related to Hindus, since they still have the caste system present in villages I guess. What I know and have seen is that Hindus in the cities aren't bothered with this anymore, however there are still some who marry within their own caste and stuff.

I come from a Christian family, so I wouldn't know much about this, however there are some sects in Christianity, especially in South India but that's about it. There's certainly no discrimination based on religious sects, however there might be some discrimination between castes in Hinduism. We learned about he whole Hindu caste system in the 4th or 5th grade, but who the heck remembers what we learned in primary school. :D

[Garry Walker]

I overheard a couple last evening, standing in line to get a table at a restaurant. I'm guessing brother and sister, because she was asking the guy about his time studying in the UK etc. Didn't seem like a couple, anyway the conversation went like this:

Guy: So, on one of the off days, it was 2 Swedish guys, and us two Romanians, and 4 Kenyan guys, we went for a trip to Cardiff.

Girl: Oh, 4 Kenyan guys. Ha ha, so each one of you got a slave each, ha ha. Did you have the leash on them?

Guy: That's not funny.

Girl: Oh come on, you know you're laughing.

Guy: Still not funny.
===========================================

Is it still 2010 or did I just time travel back some 100 odd years? :confused:

Yeah, that is such a really bad case of racism, I mean, it is just awful. Far worse than white farmers getting killed in loads in certain african countries, just because they are white. Far worse :rolleyes:
Truly such a horrific incident, how will we ever get over it :( I think I am about to cry.



I would have laughed at that joke by the way. It is based on a historical reality, right? Nothing will change that. So why not joke about it? My ancestors were slaves for hundreds of years (far longer than people from Africa taken to America were) and I am very much okay at jokes on that, if the jokes are funny I will laugh. Heck, I can even make jokes about that myself. I will not cry racism, I will not get offended, I will not be a teenage girl about it.


X...the sad reality of it is, Europeans used to ridicule the Americans for their views on blacks and their place in America. Yet, most of the openly rude racism is in Europe....towards blacks, Indians, Arabs, Turks, Gypsy's or Jews.

Predictably, you have left out whites as the groups who are the target of racist hate. There are plenty of places in many european cities these days that if you go there and you are white, you are very likely to get an ass-kicking. Funny how such incidents dont get as much or even anywhere near as much coverage as any incident where a "minority" gets hurt, get.

[gadjo_dilo]

I don't think any sane and professional doctor would just look at someone and assume something without running the necessary proper tests. And frankly, this never happened to me ever before, and I have lived in different countries for varying periods of time because of work..
In this case all I can say is " Welcome to Romania !" :laugh:

Now seriously: we have some very good doctors. The real problem is that most of them aren't interested in their work ( except for the case when you "stimulate" them ) and our hospitals have no decent equipments.



LOL. Now this is rich. I'm a paranoid foreigner walking on the streets obsessed with people staring at me. You know, you have to accept things as truth when someone tells you something. Not to diss at your countrymen or something, but the way people here are assertive about things they have no idea about, is quite scary as well. For example, there was a guy in some pub arguing with me about India, telling ME how things are there.
Not exactly paranoid. Most likely you're oversensitive.
You can't be angry with the ideas of a guy in a pub.

How are you "sure" that I'm obsessing with this, when you haven't walked in my shoes or actually have never experienced anything like this? When you have an old woman stop right in her tracks in front of you as you pass her by, then turn her head and keep staring until the end of the street, you know you're an alien.
I experienced but from different other reasons. It's embarassing but people will stare for different reasons. Besides, the oldie may meet dark skinned people everywhere and I'm sure you're not darker than Banel :laugh:
( maybe the old woman confused you with Banel, you know he's popular.... ).


And secondly, what does a German influence have to do anything with a dark skinned person on the street not being a curiosity? I had people pointing at me from across the street. It was weird! And yes, this is not racism, but I never said it was. BTW it was Sighisoara, Petrosani etc in the Transylvania region, and this is also where I met some of the most genuinely good human beings, friendly, civilized, kind, hospitable and always with a smile on their face.
German influence means other mentality and better manners. Look at Brasov-Sibiu-Sighisoara and compare them with Bucharest.



Well, that's damn right. Education always plays a big role in all of this. Usually I've had problems with uneducated idiots, while the educated fellas have no problems. But that doctor was educated you know. )

It's my fault. I used the word " uneducated " because I don't know the english one for " marlan ", " t(z)oparlan ", " neam prost ". In romanian an educated person doesn't mean only that he studied and have general knowledge but that he also have good manners. Our problem is that most of the people who have universitary studies suffer of a terrible lack of manners.


Dude, relax. I'm not branding the whole country as racist, but you can't deny that still there are people still who are quite blatantly racist, and this is the case with every country on this planet. Hell, I saw a group of young Romanian teenagers with swastika stickers, proclaiming to be from a Neo Nazi group. What do you call that? :)
Terribilism. I bet they don't know much about it. :laugh:


True that I don't understand the language, just some words here and there, but the person who translated it to me is actually a professional translator working for European companies. Plus, she has no reason to lie. So, yeah, I would trust her translation and her judgment on this.
I don't have doubts about translation but about the way the girl talked. I can say the same phrase in different ways: joking, arguing, threatening, being surprised, etc. I'm sure the person who translated didn't it by "playing the roles" of the couple.
At the same time I read the story told by you but I have no clue how the girl talked. I know the kind of jokes about africans and that's why I suppose she joked.
BTW, let's see the other face of the coin. During the communist period we had loads of african young people who studied here. Unlike us they had money and the freedom to travel. Generally we were friends but some of them looked at us in a superior way. Don't know if it's based on real facts but the usual joke was about a romanian who laughed at an african saying that he was just decending from a tree and the african replied: yeah, but I did it directly in a Mercedes.

[Eki]

Yeah, that is such a really bad case of racism, I mean, it is just awful. Far worse than white farmers getting killed in loads in certain african countries, just because they are white.

Most likely the farmers get killed because they have land and and the killers don't, not because they are white. The same happened in Russia in 1917 onwards, and it's was not about skin color but political color.

[CaptainRaiden]

Yeah, that is such a really bad case of racism, I mean, it is just awful. Far worse than white farmers getting killed in loads in certain african countries, just because they are white. Far worse :rolleyes:
Truly such a horrific incident, how will we ever get over it :( I think I am about to cry.

Wow, somebody got their panties in a bunch. :rolleyes: Did I even begin to compare that joke with anything else? It was just something ridiculous that I heard. No need to overreact really, but then again going by your posts on this forum, that's not really a huge surprise. And as far as comparing goes, if you're mentioning white farmers getting killed in South Africa and Zimbabwe, then understand that it's pretty much out of retaliation because of the $h!t their forefathers had to go through for hundreds of years. Apartheid ring a bell? Being a slave in your own country ruled by foreigners too much?

I'm not at all supporting it or trying to justify it, and in fact these things should NOT happen in today's world. It's a bunch of uneducated gun-happy idiots exacting revenge on some innocent farmers, and I completely condemn these actions, but when you cry about something, try to see the bigger picture.


I would have laughed at that joke by the way. It is based on a historical reality, right? Nothing will change that. So why not joke about it? My ancestors were slaves for hundreds of years (far longer than people from Africa taken to America were) and I am very much okay at jokes on that, if the jokes are funny I will laugh. Heck, I can even make jokes about that myself. I will not cry racism, I will not get offended, I will not be a teenage girl about it.

Well, if you want to laugh at jokes like these, and even make some up yourself, then I guess that's you and your sense of humor, which I of course would never understand. I'm sure you and that girl will have a blast laughing your asses off for hours on these intelligent jokes. It's easy to jump and say, all the 'minorities' cry racism at the drop of a coin, unless you've actually lived as one and walked in their shoes. And I've seen many folks do this, seems to be the new trend.

[gadjo_dilo]

There are plenty of places in many european cities these days that if you go there and you are white, you are very likely to get an ass-kicking.

Where exactly? I should know in order to avoid such pieces of Harlem.

[CaptainRaiden]

Besides, the oldie may meet dark skinned people everywhere and I'm sure you're not darker than Banel :laugh:
( maybe the old woman confused you with Banel, you know he's popular.... ).

I have no idea who you're talking about, and I doubt you've seen a proper South Indian guy in reality. So, just picture me a shade darker than Will Smith, and it will all start making sense to you. ;)

[CaptainRaiden]

I don't have doubts about translation but about the way the girl talked. I can say the same phrase in different ways: joking, arguing, threatening, being surprised, etc. I'm sure the person who translated didn't it by "playing the roles" of the couple.
At the same time I read the story told by you but I have no clue how the girl talked. I know the kind of jokes about africans and that's why I suppose she joked.
BTW, let's see the other face of the coin. During the communist period we had loads of african young people who studied here. Unlike us they had money and the freedom to travel. Generally we were friends but some of them looked at us in a superior way. Don't know if it's based on real facts but the usual joke was about a romanian who laughed at an african saying that he was just decending from a tree and the african replied: yeah, but I did it directly in a Mercedes.

Well, IMO any joke based on race, caste, creed, color etc. isn't funny for me, and well that's what I've been taught. So, I guess probably that's why I don't find these jokes funny. However, it's strange isn't it that people make these jokes on black guys, their physical appearance, but I don't hear many funny "jokes" being made on white folks. Why the double standard? :p

[Garry Walker]

Most likely the farmers get killed because they have land and and the killers don't, not because they are white. The same happened in Russia in 1917 onwards, and it's was not about skin color but political color.

How will killing the landowners help the killers? They wont be getting the land. The killings are based only on racism and hatred of whites and because they know they can get away with it.



And as far as comparing goes, if you're mentioning white farmers getting killed in South Africa and Zimbabwe, then understand that it's pretty much out of retaliation because of the $h!t their forefathers had to go through for hundreds of years. Apartheid ring a bell? Being a slave in your own country ruled by foreigners too much?
My ancestors were slaves many years before any european had set a foot in South africa or Zimbabwe (in their own country too), that doesnt mean I am going to go killing the ancestors of those who were the ones keeping my ancestors as slaves, right? Or does that excuse it somehow?

But I get your point, killing whites out of retaliation is okay. Because whites are guilty of all the bad things in world and without them, africa and other places would be such booming successes :rotflmao:




I'm not at all supporting it or trying to justify it, and in fact these things should NOT happen in today's world. It's a bunch of uneducated gun-happy idiots exacting revenge on some innocent farmers, and I completely condemn these actions, but when you cry about something, try to see the bigger picture. Well, if you start a thread on racism which is a serious issue, you shouldnt start it because of a completely irrelevant happening that didnt hurt anyone or has no impact whatsoever, which you due to being such a sensitive drama queen made out to look like such a horrendous incident.



Well, if you want to laugh at jokes like these, and even make some up yourself, then I guess that's you and your sense of humor, which I of course would never understand. I'm sure you and that girl will have a blast laughing your asses off for hours on these intelligent jokes. Oh mister high and mighty, I am sure your jokes contain such a dose of intellectuality that even Marilyn Vos Savant would find it hard to keep up.



It's easy to jump and say, all the 'minorities' cry racism at the drop of a coin, unless you've actually lived as one and walked in their shoes. And I've seen many folks do this, seems to be the new trend.I have had guys want to beat me up and attack me purley because of my nationality, a bit worse than you thinking someone gave you a weird look, huh.
But I am sure you can just keep on thinking every bad thing that happens to you in life is due to racism, every time someone gives you a weird look, racism, everytime a girl says no, racism, everytime you dont get a doctors appointment quickly, well, that just has to be racism! Every little incident just has to be racism.

[Garry Walker]

Well, IMO any joke based on race, caste, creed, color etc. isn't funny for me, and well that's what I've been taught. So, I guess probably that's why I don't find these jokes funny. However, it's strange isn't it that people make these jokes on black guys, their physical appearance, but I don't hear many funny "jokes" being made on white folks. Why the double standard? :p
There are many, the problem is that whites never have problems taking such jokes and they dont cry racism.

[gadjo_dilo]

I have no idea who you're talking about, and I doubt you've seen a proper South Indian guy in reality. So, just picture me a shade darker than Will Smith, and it will all start making sense to you. ;)
It's a shame you don't know Banel. He's the most loved footballer from Steaua Bucharest. He's the proof we're not racist because he's gipsy, he's not very talented, he's ugly as a sin, but we all love him to bits. Despite his stupid own goals.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vmkO9TP-To

[CaptainRaiden]

My ancestors were slaves many years before any european had set a foot in South africa or Zimbabwe (in their own country too), that doesnt mean I am going to go killing the ancestors of those who were the ones keeping my ancestors as slaves, right? Or does that excuse it somehow?

But I get your point, killing whites out of retaliation is okay. Because whites are guilty of all the bad things in world and without them, africa and other places would be such booming successes

Did I even say killing whites was okay?!? I only pointed out a possible reason for the new idiots to exact revenge. Did you not read what I wrote next or is your brain incapable of making the distinction?


Well, if you start a thread on racism which is a serious issue, you shouldnt start it because of a completely irrelevant happening that didnt hurt anyone or has no impact whatsoever, which you due to being such a sensitive drama queen made out to look like such a horrendous incident.

Did I say it was a horrendous incident? Nope. I said it was something ridiculous. Now, who's the drama queen here taking things out of context and exaggerating them? And do people only start threads in the "chit-chat" section on serious and relevant issues? I didn't even brand all white guys as racists, in fact I said there's racism in every country, and yet you had to jump in to defend all white guys. :laugh:


Oh mister high and mighty, I am sure your jokes contain such a dose of intellectuality that even Marilyn Vos Savant would find it hard to keep up.

I don't know how intellectual they are, but they're definitely better than jokes about race specific inappropriate jokes that make you slap your thighs and spray your beer out normally. ;)


I have had guys want to beat me up and attack me purley because of my nationality, a bit worse than you thinking someone gave you a weird look, huh.
But I am sure you can just keep on thinking every bad thing that happens to you in life is due to racism, every time someone gives you a weird look, racism, everytime a girl says no, racism, everytime you dont get a doctors appointment quickly, well, that just has to be racism! Every little incident just has to be racism.

Point out one place in this thread where I said that people ONLY staring at me or giving me weird looks was racism. Can you find it? No. It's when they start calling names, then it becomes racism. But why would you care to read anything thoroughly before spewing the garbage. That's not right! :laugh:

And the guys wanting to beat you up, are you sure it was because of your nationality? It wasn't because of you being just....you? :p

[gadjo_dilo]

Well, IMO any joke based on race, caste, creed, color etc. isn't funny for me, and well that's what I've been taught. So, I guess probably that's why I don't find these jokes funny. However, it's strange isn't it that people make these jokes on black guys, their physical appearance, but I don't hear many funny "jokes" being made on white folks. Why the double standard? :p

Just told you the one about the african who jumped in the Mercedes. I also recall one about Ceausescu visiting a african tribe ( not for a family forum ).

I bet there are such jokes but we don't know them. Romanian jokes are always about the romanian guy who's the smartest. They usually start with " an american, a russian and a romanian...." . Nationality may differ but the romanian wins every time. :laugh:

We also have jokes about guys from different regions of our country speculating the low parts of them and nobody is offended. Those about transylvanians are about their slow mind, oltenians are smart and moldovans lazy.

[CaptainRaiden]

There are many, the problem is that whites never have problems taking such jokes and they dont cry racism.

Well, if there are, I certainly haven't heard any. Care to share a few?


It's a shame you don't know Banel. He's the most loved footballer from Steaua Bucharest. He's the proof we're not racist because he's gipsy, he's not very talented, he's ugly as a sin, but we all love him to bits. Despite his stupid own goals.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vmkO9TP-To

Again on the defensive. :laugh: I'll say it again, I'm not branding your whole country or ALL white guys in this world racists. So, no need for you and Garry Walker to run to the defense of white folks. Some of my best friends are white guys, and probably there are more racist guys in India than any other place.

I just heard something ridiculous said by ONE person, and so posted it, simple. Don't know about you, but that was shocking to me, and judging by the first few replies, was shocking to some other guys as well. I am in no way implying that every white guy is racist.

[Eki]

How will killing the landowners help the killers? They wont be getting the land.
Who will?

[anthonyvop]

Well, IMO any joke based on race, caste, creed, color etc. isn't funny for me, and well that's what I've been taught. So, I guess probably that's why I don't find these jokes funny. However, it's strange isn't it that people make these jokes on black guys, their physical appearance, but I don't hear many funny "jokes" being made on white folks. Why the double standard? :p
You haven't hung around enough black people....At least in the US.

[Bob Riebe]

Well, IMO any joke based on race, caste, creed, color etc. isn't funny for me, and well that's what I've been taught. So, I guess probably that's why I don't find these jokes funny. However, it's strange isn't it that people make these jokes on black guys, their physical appearance, but I don't hear many funny "jokes" being made on white folks. Why the double standard? :p
Ethnic hatred, or jokes, which is what you should call your topic rather than racism, is not new or any greater or lessor than is has ever been.

In the U.S. ethnic hatred and jokes from northern European people about norther European people, including religious divides, ran rampant for decades. It ebbs and flows.

The group of the moment, that is the butt of such forms or derision, depends on what area on is in at any point in time.

[CaptainRaiden]

Ethnic hatred, or jokes, which is what you should call your topic rather than racism, is not new or any greater or lessor than is has ever been.

In the U.S. ethnic hatred and jokes from northern European people about norther European people, including religious divides, ran rampant for decades. It ebbs and flows.

The group of the moment, that is the butt of such forms or derision, depends on what area on is in at any point in time.

Well, isn't ethnic hatred what eventually leads to racism? I mean in a broader sense they're the same. If the guy wouldn't have mentioned the guys from Kenya, that girl probably wouldn't have said anything demeaning. EDIT: I mean SOME Europeans don't really make fun of other Europeans, except for maybe the French...

[Bob Riebe]

Well, isn't ethnic hatred what eventually leads to racism? I mean in a broader sense they're the same. If the guy wouldn't have mentioned the guys from Kenya, that girl probably wouldn't have said anything demeaning. I mean Europeans don't really make fun of other Europeans, except for maybe the French...

Racism-may- lead to ethic hatred, although if a person, such as a Paki friend/s I had in college said/would say- "I am just as white as you are", which is correct, it can cause the attacker to stumble, trying to defend his baseless attitude.

To modify Anthonyvop's reply- you were not/haven't been in the U.S. as a permanent part of a community.

When I was a youth, even into early teens, families were permanently split apart because a white person of one family, bonded with the white person of another wrong, by opinion, family.
Some of these may have had ancestors from the same area or even country in Europe.
Minn. had a invisible line separating the state into they and we.

[GridGirl]

I have family of mixed race. This week being Thanksgiving it is a sad situation that the maternal grandfather will not share a meal with us as these kids will be there. The children of my dead niece. 6 and 8. Two beautiful little girls and the daughters of his own daughter. He has two grandsons from a mixed race too. Hispanic/Latin but they are fine because they are mostly white.

His other daughter married a guy from Taiwan (lived here since he was 2) and there is no problem there.

Just because they are half African American. The good 'ole south. Time has stood still for this man. He is only 62 so he can't say he lived through anything.

I am in the opposite situation. I have told my mum I dont want to spend Christmas with her as my step-dad's mother will be there. I refuse to have my Christmas ruined because she's a racist old bag. If I hear her used he word "darkie" one more time I think I may be the next person she calls Age Concern on. Maybe it's because she it 86 but I still don't think there is any excuse for it. She has family of mixed race too.

[Bob Riebe]

I am in the opposite situation. I have told my mum I dont want to spend Christmas with her as my step-dad's mother will be there. I refuse to have my Christmas ruined because she's a racist old bag. If I hear her used he word "darkie" one more time I think I may be the next person she calls Age Concern on. Maybe it's because she it 86 but I still don't think there is any excuse for it. She has family of mixed race too.

Beyond "darkie" what is her attitude, I have a feeling it goes beyond that.

When "blacks" call others of similar race "nigger" (because they think it is cute) while critisizing Bill Cosby for still using the term Negro, in the U.S., what is wrong with darkie?

[GridGirl]

Beyond "darkie" what is her attitude, I have a feeling it goes beyond that.

When "blacks" call others of similar race "nigger" (because they think it is cute) while critisizing Bill Cosby for still using the term Negroe, in the U.S., what is wrong with darkie?

My step father's mother is a bit of a weird case. She is very openly racist by the things she says but at the same time she would not cancel a doctors appointment for example if the doctor was not white. Her racism only goes as far as satisfying her own purpose and needs. The doctor would still most likely be referred to as the "darkie doctor" though. I suppose you might class it as selective racism. Either way, I'm happy I'm not spending Christmas with her.

[Captain VXR]

I refuse to talk to and acknowledge racists...end of.
BTW to the person who's friend was racially abused in Poland, I cannot apologise enough for the disgusting behaviour of some of my compatriots :mad:

[A.F.F.]

I mean SOME Europeans don't really make fun of other Europeans, except for maybe the French...

I beg to differ... Only Europeans I haven't heard jokes are from Vatican. Oh and from Luxemburg. And what's that third small piece of **** country ? ;)

[Eki]

My step father's mother is a bit of a weird case. She is very openly racist by the things she says but at the same time she would not cancel a doctors appointment for example if the doctor was not white. Her racism only goes as far as satisfying her own purpose and needs. The doctor would still most likely be referred to as the "darkie doctor" though. I suppose you might class it as selective racism. Either way, I'm happy I'm not spending Christmas with her.
Maybe that's how people talked when she was young and she sees nothing wrong with it? "Darkie doctor" could have been her way to describe the doctor's appearance without meaning to be derogatory.

[Bob Riebe]

Most likely the farmers get killed because they have land and and the killers don't, not because they are white. The same happened in Russia in 1917 onwards, and it's was not about skin color but political color.
Wrong, look it up, many time the loyal workers for the white farmers were also killed, because they were loyal workers for a white man.

[Eki]

Wrong, look it up, many time the loyal workers for the white farmers were also killed, because they were loyal workers for a white man.
Wrong, the loyal workers for the farmers were killed because they were loyal for the farmers. In the Finnish civil war 1918, not just factory owners were killed but also white collar salary workers like engineers and clerks were killed, because they were loyal for the owners and not for the blue collar workers. It was about the color of the collar, not of the skin.

[gadjo_dilo]

Jokes
A black guy to a white one:
When i was born I was black, when I get frightened I'm black, when I feel cold I'm black, when I get angry I'm black, when I die I'm still black. You are white at your birth , you are yellow when you get frightened , you are red when you get angry, when it's cold you become purple to blue, when you die you become black and blue.
And you still call me coloured man....


Two very elegant black guys are going to a meeting in the U.N. building in New York. They see a white man washing the floor and humming. One f them say:
Look at this white man, what a rhythm he has.....

[Retro Formula 1]

Jokes
A black guy to a white one:
When i was born I was black, when I get frightened I'm black, when I feel cold I'm black, when I get angry I'm black, when I die I'm still black. You are white at your birth , you are yellow when you get frightened , you are red when you get angry, when it's cold you become purple to blue, when you die you become black and blue.
And you still call me coloured man....



I find jokes like this very clever and funny. If finding humour in the differences that make us individual is racism then I'm one.

Fact is, people will find an excuse to spout the racism / discrimination card at the drop of a hat without understanding what they are getting upset about. As for me, I don't discriminate. Some of my best friends are male, white, able bodied and middle class. You won't find a group more discriminated against than that!

[Bob Riebe]

Wrong, the loyal workers for the farmers were killed because they were loyal for the farmers. In the Finnish civil war 1918, not just factory owners were killed but also white collar salary workers like engineers and clerks were killed, because they were loyal for the owners and not for the blue collar workers. It was about the color of the collar, not of the skin.
Africa is not Finland or even remotely similar.

[Eki]

Africa is not Finland or even remotely similar.
People are people, where ever they live. Desire to revenge and/or improve one's own life are universal feelings. So are the ways people treat those who they consider to be traitors.

[DexDexter]

Africa is not Finland or even remotely similar.

But it's a country, right? ;)

[anthonyvop]

Wrong, the loyal workers for the farmers were killed because they were loyal for the farmers. In the Finnish civil war 1918, not just factory owners were killed but also white collar salary workers like engineers and clerks were killed, because they were loyal for the owners and not for the blue collar workers. It was about the color of the collar, not of the skin.
Wrong. In Zimbabwe Black farm owners have mostly been untouched.

The killings there are Government support using Race based populism.

[anthonyvop]

Wrong, the loyal workers for the farmers were killed because they were loyal for the farmers. In the Finnish civil war 1918, not just factory owners were killed but also white collar salary workers like engineers and clerks were killed, because they were loyal for the owners and not for the blue collar workers. It was about the color of the collar, not of the skin.
Wrong. In Zimbabwe Black farm owners have mostly been untouched.

The killings there are Government supported using Race based populism.

[Bob Riebe]

But it's a country, right? ;)

Not last time I checked. ;)

[Bob Riebe]

People are people, where ever they live. Desire to revenge and/or improve one's own life are universal feelings. So are the ways people treat those who they consider to be traitors.

Really, hmm, all the "black" people who endured legal segregation in the U.S. will be amazed to find out they had no reason to complain as their situation was not different than any white boys.

The base of your rhetoric is absurd to the point of seeing it as nothing more than trolling for response.

[Eki]

Really, hmm, all the "black" people who endured legal segregation in the U.S. will be amazed to find out they had no reason to complain as their situation was not different than any white boys.

They had reason to complain, just like the Finnish working class in 1918 and the landless people in Zimbabwe. And they did complain, remember the Black Panthers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party

[Bob Riebe]

They had reason to complain, just like the Finnish working class in 1918 and the landless people in Zimbabwe. And they did complain, remember the Black Panthers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party
Apparently you have never, ever in your life met unashamed racists, (I am speaking of racist in the literal definition of the word) and I am not speaking of individuals, otherwise you would not be making such obtuse generalizations.

The landless people had a right to complain, to the point of murder, what was that right and who gave it to them?
From what you say murder is justifiable because if someone decides to do, just because.

[Eki]

The landless people had a right to complain, to the point of murder, what was that right and who gave it to them?
From what you say murder is justifiable because if someone decides to do, just because.
I don't say murder is justifiable, I say it's understandable if some people who have been mistreated murder for revenge when they think they'll get away with it. Like they say, payback is a bitch, so you better watch how you treat other people.

[CaptainRaiden]

Fact is, people will find an excuse to spout the racism / discrimination card at the drop of a hat without understanding what they are getting upset about.

Now see, what you call a fact and easily brand as nothing but overreaction is something more complex. It's easy to pass judgment when you haven't actually experienced it. You would have no idea unless you've actually lived your whole life as a minority or gone through discrimination on a daily basis, to understand why people's sensitivity gets molded this way and why they react in a certain manner.

[CaptainRaiden]

I'm not defensive at all. I'm aware I'm not living in the best place of the world and I admit its low points . I'm just trying to make you understand our mentality. And we might be thiefs, unloyal, hypocrites, uneducated but not racists.

So, then what do you have to say about this? Christina Milian, the actress/singer was in Romania shooting for a movie. Here is the link (http://thestudyofracialism.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7378&view=previous) and I quoted from the article down below as well.


CHRISTINA'S ROMANIAN NIGHTMARE: Milian Deals with Racism and Nick Cannon's Cheating in Eastern European Country.
August 7, 2006

Christina Milian *A reporter at the junket for Christina Milian's new film "Pulse" asked the star if traveling to Romania to shoot the film was one of those many perks that come along with the job. The actress-singer responded with a short burst of laughter before dropping her smile and asking, "Is that a joke?".....

And no one knew that Milian, the 24-year old daughter of Afro-Cuban parents, was experiencing all kinds of racism during her stay in the country.

"I wouldn't say it was a perk. It was an experience I will have in my mind forever and hopefully I won't get to experience it again," Milian finally told the reporter. "I'm not one that's easily like, 'prejudice!' I don't' easily point the finger that way, but when it's blatantly in your face, it's just depressing to see that it still goes on."

Milian said that among other things, there were Romanian people laughing and pointing at her while barking the words, "Black! Black! Black!" She also described an incident in a mall where she was the only one of her white crew sweated unnecessarily by security.

"Rick Gonzalez is another actor in the film as well, and he dealt with it too," she said. "It took me to another place, I'll tell you, because when I got back home from the movie, I had a huge appreciation for home. But, at the end of the day, it's like how can you blame these people, sometimes? What are you exposed to? You don't know what they're being exposed to."

Milian, a native of Jersey City, NJ who grew up in Waldorf, Md., said she decided to channel the anger and frustration of the experiences into Isabel Fuentes, the character she plays in "Pulse."

Do you think she's oversensitive too or obsessed with people looking at her? Now, before you go defending your compatriots again, I just want to make it absolutely clear that I'm not branding the whole country as racist. I have good friends here and people who have been nothing but extremely nice to me.

But you can't turn a blind eye and deny completely that there are some idiots who make other honestly nice people look bad with their disgusting behavior. I know you can say you're not racist or at least don't discriminate, but you can't account for the rest of them. ;)

[Retro Formula 1]

Now see, what you call a fact and easily brand as nothing but overreaction is something more complex. It's easy to pass judgment when you haven't actually experienced it. You would have no idea unless you've actually lived your whole life as a minority or gone through discrimination on a daily basis, to understand why people's sensitivity gets molded this way and why they react in a certain manner.

Big assumption there gringo!

What majority do I belong to. In a diverse society, we are all in a minority of some type or another.

Lets have a look shall we at my situation in the country I live; England. I am Male, white and Employeed.

Sex - Male so I am already in a minority. I have also been in that minority all my life and cannot envisage that changing.... probably ;)

Have I been discriminated against my whole life?

Well, women have lower wages so have I been positivly descriminated against? Then again, women get maternity leave and breaks in their career so have I been negativly descriminated against. Men now have been recognised (after generations of descrimination) as being a necessary part of the family structure and receive a small paternity entitlement so perhaps slowly the descrimination is being redressed but then again, the allowance is not the same so there is still a way to go and the man is expected to just carry on working in most situations and the women to raise the children. Is this right, is this fair?

Then we have the class that don't work. I have to support them whether I want to or not. I have to pay for things like my dental care when they dont and buy a house because I am not entitled to state housing. Is this discriminating against me? But what if I want to work? I can go for a job and be refused on grounds of sex, ability or race. I may not be disabled enough or because I'm not the correct sort of mix of ethnicity, do not qualify as fulfilling a race quota. Or it may be that I am in the minority of sexual gender in this country, I am not suitable for a position as the company wants to increase the amount of the majority and encourage the aforesaid mothers back to take my job!

Then we have my ethnicity. I am white european and am of mixed origins (or whatever the current buzz word is). Yet, it's perfectly acceptable to be refered to me as "You Brits blah, blah, blah, rant, rant" or "You white folk, (insert racist insult and generalisations here)" without anyone batting an eyelid. If I said "Indians this" or "Paki's that" I would be slated and probably arrested.

Problem is, I can be discriminated against because of my age, sex, ethnicity, employment, physical ability and there is no comeback. Could you imagine the furore if a job advert said "White people only" or "No disabled" or "Women need not apply" but if it's the other way around then it's fine.

So my friend. You tell me. Have I been discriminated against all my life or doesn't that count because..........

[gadjo_dilo]

Jokes are meant to make you cheerful therefore they don't express hatred. They generally are made about controversial issues or to exploit the weak points of certain categories. Just checked a romanian site with jokes. Among different categories I've noticed jokes about: albanese, transyvanians, jews, scotts, moldavians, oltenians, black people, somalese, gipsies, hungarians.

But there are other categories like blondes, doctors, priests, homosexuals, hunters and fishermen, canibals, peasants, schools, political, policemen, army, drunkers, etc.etc.

Now if I say a joke about president Obama doesn't mean I have something against him, I just want to have a laugh. On the other hand if I'm blonde I have enough sense of humour to laugh at a good joke about blonde's intelligence.

[gadjo_dilo]

So, then what do you have to say about this? Christina Milian, the actress/singer was in Romania shooting for a movie. Here is the link (http://thestudyofracialism.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7378&view=previous) and I quoted from the article down below as well.

Do you think she's oversensitive too or obsessed with people looking at her? Now, before you go defending your compatriots again, I just want to make it absolutely clear that I'm not branding the whole country as racist. I have good friends here and people who have been nothing but extremely nice to me.

But you can't turn a blind eye and deny completely that there are some idiots who make other honestly nice people look bad with their disgusting behavior. I know you can say you're not racist or at least don't discriminate, but you can't account for the rest of them. ;)

I'm not in denial of such cases but the incident that started this thread is really a storm in a glass of water.
Your Christina may have a "nightmare" indeed ( she said those lies probably to be in the press for something because her career is far from being notable. There's no mall in Romania where people will be surprised by a black woman ) but on the other hand I'm sick of loads of foreign nothings who fill the tabloids with invented stories about their "experiences" here. Why Wesley Snipes or 50 Cent ( who no offence but both are really ugly ) haven't such nightmares? ( on the contrary...:laugh :) .
Let's not forget that foreign papers are full of lies about us. Cluj is a really nice and civilised city but the swiss journalists who came here for a football match saw only old cottages inhabited by gipsies ( they have to apologize later :laugh: ).

[CaptainRaiden]

Big assumption there gringo!

What majority do I belong to. In a diverse society, we are all in a minority of some type or another.

Lets have a look shall we at my situation in the country I live; England. I am Male, white and Employeed.

Sex - Male so I am already in a minority. I have also been in that minority all my life and cannot envisage that changing.... probably ;)

Have I been discriminated against my whole life?

Well, women have lower wages so have I been positivly descriminated against? Then again, women get maternity leave and breaks in their career so have I been negativly descriminated against. Men now have been recognised (after generations of descrimination) as being a necessary part of the family structure and receive a small paternity entitlement so perhaps slowly the descrimination is being redressed but then again, the allowance is not the same so there is still a way to go and the man is expected to just carry on working in most situations and the women to raise the children. Is this right, is this fair?

Then we have the class that don't work. I have to support them whether I want to or not. I have to pay for things like my dental care when they dont and buy a house because I am not entitled to state housing. Is this discriminating against me? But what if I want to work? I can go for a job and be refused on grounds of sex, ability or race. I may not be disabled enough or because I'm not the correct sort of mix of ethnicity, do not qualify as fulfilling a race quota. Or it may be that I am in the minority of sexual gender in this country, I am not suitable for a position as the company wants to increase the amount of the majority and encourage the aforesaid mothers back to take my job!

Then we have my ethnicity. I am white european and am of mixed origins (or whatever the current buzz word is). Yet, it's perfectly acceptable to be refered to me as "You Brits blah, blah, blah, rant, rant" or "You white folk, (insert racist insult and generalisations here)" without anyone batting an eyelid. If I said "Indians this" or "Paki's that" I would be slated and probably arrested.

Problem is, I can be discriminated against because of my age, sex, ethnicity, employment, physical ability and there is no comeback. Could you imagine the furore if a job advert said "White people only" or "No disabled" or "Women need not apply" but if it's the other way around then it's fine.

So my friend. You tell me. Have I been discriminated against all my life or doesn't that count because..........

What you described there is something that pretty much every middle class man has to go through their life, and trust me I've seen much, much worse, not talking here about me but an observation of an average middle class man back home. You've got it WAY better, trust me. So, when you talk about discrimination against your sex and age, that's how your society is structured and almost everyone, black or white or brown or yellow, has to go through this.

But answer me this, have you ever been racially discriminated against or how often have you seen white folks getting racially discriminated against? While I've seen plenty of guys getting shortchanged only because of the color of their skin.

I agree that there are some idiots who cry "Racism!" at the drop of the hat, but there are plenty others that don't, and it's wrong to generalize everyone in the same pool, when unknown to you they might have gone through something totally legit. Add also to the fact that racial discrimination during childhood can scar a person mentally in a bad way, and hence they can become oversensitive to these things.

[CaptainRaiden]

I'm not in denial of such cases but the incident that started this thread is really a storm in a glass of water.
Your Christina may have a "nightmare" indeed ( she said those lies probably to be in the press for something because her career is far from being notable. There's no mall in Romania where people will be surprised by a black woman ) but on the other hand I'm sick of loads of foreign nothings who fill the tabloids with invented stories about their "experiences" here. Why Wesley Snipes or 50 Cent ( who no offence but both are really ugly ) haven't such nightmares? ( on the contrary...).
Let's not forget that foreign papers are full of lies about us. Cluj is a really nice and civilised city but the swiss journalists who came here for a football match saw only old cottages inhabited by gipsies ( they have to apologize later).

You said at the start of your post that you're not in denial of such cases, but later you completely contradicted yourself. :laugh: And just wonderful, so she's probably lying to promote her career, but NO! there can be absolutely NO racism or ethnic hatred or discrimination in Romania in Mr. gadjo dilo's opinion. :laugh: Romanians are God's gift to the world, and when they fart only bunnies come out, sprinkling flowers, spreading joy and prosperity everywhere.

Why do you have such a hard time admitting that there MIGHT be racist people in your country? I mean you've heard more than enough accounts, but yet you keep trying to dismiss them as lies or in some cases obsession or oversensitivity. This is straight up denial man. I know you're proud of your country and all, but at least try to open your mind to the possibility of something. I am an Indian and I'm man enough to admit that there are plenty of racist incidents and racism in India, which I'm not proud of.

And why the heck would she lie about what happened to her in Romania to move her career forward in America man? I've actually met some Americans who don't even know if a country called Romania exists. They thought it dissolved into Russia. :laugh: She would get more traction if she said the same lie about a place like UK or Germany, would get way much more press. On top of this, she's a well established singer, and a talented and active one at that too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christina_Milian. As far as acting goes, she's nothing special, but still worthwhile. Also, her ONLY racism complaint was when she came to Romania, so this is clearly not a person who cries racism at every chance.

As for Wesley Snipes and 50 Cent goes, I'm going to take a page out of your book and deny that they DIDN'T have a bad experience. :p Maybe they had to face racism, but didn't tell anyone. ;) In all seriousness though, Snipes is a major movie star and well known, so is 50 Cent as a musician. You can just see Romanian teenagers all dressing up like him, trying to imitate the rapper dress code, while Romanians have not been exposed to Christina Milian that much, so I guess that explains it.

[Retro Formula 1]

What you described there is something that pretty much every middle class man has to go through their life, and trust me I've seen much, much worse, not talking here about me but an observation of an average middle class man back home. You've got it WAY better, trust me. So, when you talk about discrimination against your sex and age, that's how your society is structured and almost everyone, black or white or brown or yellow, has to go through this.

But answer me this, have you ever been racially discriminated against or how often have you seen white folks getting racially discriminated against? While I've seen plenty of guys getting shortchanged only because of the color of their skin.

I agree that there are some idiots who cry "Racism!" at the drop of the hat, but there are plenty others that don't, and it's wrong to generalize everyone in the same pool, when unknown to you they might have gone through something totally legit. Add also to the fact that racial discrimination during childhood can scar a person mentally in a bad way, and hence they can become oversensitive to these things.

The point I was trying to make is that we can all be sensitive about discrimination and find it un every walk of life. Just because discrimination is endemic in a culture does not make it right and a person that is discriminated against because of the colour of their skin, their sexual orientation, their physical ability, their sex or any other aspect apart from their ability is wrong in my opinion.

Therefore, I can consider myself to be non-discriminatory because I believe that all types of discrimination are wrong, and not just the ones that suit my view point. Others may disagree and deem that a white middle class man can be discriminated against because he deserves it or whatever. When we go down the road of what type of descrimination is fair, then we introduce resentment and mistrust. We are also then incapable of making a unbiased decision on how to deal with descrimination. How can we say that someone referring to a slave is wrong but someone being denied work because of their ethnicity is right? Yet on this forum, people have expressed outrage at someone making a rascist comment, claiming long term damage to people etc but shrug off as acceptable denial of work of middle class men which could lead to a life of povery and social injustice.

On our sliding scale of acceptability, which is worse. Someone making a racist joke or someone not being allowed to work?

Believe it or not, I am not making the case here for White, Middle class, employed, able bodied men. I think we have broader shoulders and by and large, can get on with our lives without standing on a soap box. BUT, perhaps some other groups could be as pragmatic and not get so hot under the collar about infrequant instances or one-offs that in the great scheme of things, DONT REALLY MATTER!!!

There are many serious issues and ramifications of discrimination in this world. There are many, many more minor issues that deflect away from the focus that should be put on the great injustices.

All I am saying is that if we acknowledge discrimination exsists virtually everywhere, instead of cherry picking the bits that suit our view, then we can have a much more grown up discussion and action plan about what is serious and what is merely unpleasant.

[CaptainRaiden]

The point I was trying to make is that we can all be sensitive about discrimination and find it un every walk of life. Just because discrimination is endemic in a culture does not make it right and a person that is discriminated against because of the colour of their skin, their sexual orientation, their physical ability, their sex or any other aspect apart from their ability is wrong in my opinion.

Therefore, I can consider myself to be non-discriminatory because I believe that all types of discrimination are wrong, and not just the ones that suit my view point. Others may disagree and deem that a white middle class man can be discriminated against because he deserves it or whatever. When we go down the road of what type of descrimination is fair, then we introduce resentment and mistrust. We are also then incapable of making a unbiased decision on how to deal with descrimination. How can we say that someone referring to a slave is wrong but someone being denied work because of their ethnicity is right? Yet on this forum, people have expressed outrage at someone making a rascist comment, claiming long term damage to people etc but shrug off as acceptable denial of work of middle class men which could lead to a life of povery and social injustice.

On our sliding scale of acceptability, which is worse. Someone making a racist joke or someone not being allowed to work?

Believe it or not, I am not making the case here for White, Middle class, employed, able bodied men. I think we have broader shoulders and by and large, can get on with our lives without standing on a soap box. BUT, perhaps some other groups could be as pragmatic and not get so hot under the collar about infrequant instances or one-offs that in the great scheme of things, DONT REALLY MATTER!!!

There are many serious issues and ramifications of discrimination in this world. There are many, many more minor issues that deflect away from the focus that should be put on the great injustices.

All I am saying is that if we acknowledge discrimination exsists virtually everywhere, instead of cherry picking the bits that suit our view, then we can have a much more grown up discussion and action plan about what is serious and what is merely unpleasant.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that ANY type of discrimination is just wrong. In fact, I have in my life never approved of any discrimination against any race, caste or creed. It's very unacceptable to me when a group of black rappers talk about white folks badly, generalizing them, without understanding that the innocent white folks today have nothing to do with whatever happened to the black folks decades or centuries ago. Crying racism over that stuff today and blaming the white folks is just wrong.

This thread was never started with a serious POV, only displaying my shock at hearing something like that in this day and age, and that some people still have views like these, because there's always some degree of truth behind every joke. And that "joke" some people might find funny, but it isn't funny to me. I never said a certain type of discrimination was more wrong than others. Discrimination as a whole is just WRONG.

And like I said before, that yes, life is hard for a middle class man, as you said in the UK, and in the US too during this recession, but it's even more so in India as I have witnessed first hand. At least you have a minimum wage. Imagine people working for peanuts, and then getting denied for work because someone less skilled but from a lower caste quota got their job because of this silly rule from the government. A kid with a much lesser score in the entrance exam gets to go to medical college, just because he belongs to a scheduled caste or scheduled tribe of India compared to someone who actually worked his ass off and gets 80%, but that's not enough because he's normal. This type of discrimination exists everywhere, and frankly doesn't surprise me because I'm used to it.

People can't do anything about these, so they learn to live with it. Racial discrimination however is different, because now it relates to appearance, and it's similar to a fat kid going through childhood, he develops a pretty strong inferiority complex that remains with him throughout his life. Probably racism based on physical appearance or skin color, especially in this world obsessed with beauty and superficial outside appearance, has a similar effect on people, which makes them more sensitive and it doesn't take much to provoke them. Not saying what is more or less important, I'm just illustrating the differences.

[Retro Formula 1]

I am saddened (but not surprised) to hear your experience with Indian employment discrimination.

Thank you for this great insight and your views on rascism and discrimination. Trully thought provoking and eloquently made.

:up:

[Bob Riebe]

Now see, what you call a fact and easily brand as nothing but overreaction is something more complex. It's easy to pass judgment when you haven't actually experienced it. You would have no idea unless you've actually lived your whole life as a minority or gone through discrimination on a daily basis, to understand why people's sensitivity gets molded this way and why they react in a certain manner.
In the U.S. (I am not speaking of other countries) supposed leaders, and it only takes one person, use/cling to past transgressions- real or otherwise- to foment hatred, for reason of power.

The resulting -usually- ethnic hatred, thrives on the us verses them politic.

Those in a community that do not subscribe to such hate based politics often suffer greatly for not doing so.
An American Indian gentleman I once gave a ride to, when asked why in the U.S. Indian - non-indian relations seem to never improve, told me it was because "leaders" preach hatred and separation.
He was hitching back to Montana as there was no longer work in Minn., but had originally left after he had two sisters and a brother killed, in his words "for not being Indian enough."

[CaptainRaiden]

In the U.S. (I am not speaking of other countries) supposed leaders, and it only takes one person, use/cling to past transgressions- real or otherwise- to foment hatred, for reason of power.

The resulting -usually- ethnic hatred, thrives on the us verses them politic.

Those in a community that do not subscribe to such hate based politics often suffer greatly for not doing so.
An American Indian gentleman I once gave a ride to, when asked why in the U.S. Indian - non-indian relations seem to never improve, told me it was because "leaders" preach hatred and separation.
He was hitching back to Montana as there was no longer work in Minn., but had originally left after he had two sisters and a brother killed, in his words "for not being Indian enough."

Well, that's just sad...nothing else to say.

[CaptainRaiden]

I am saddened (but not surprised) to hear your experience with Indian employment discrimination.

There was an incident in the news of a guy committing suicide. He was working for 5 years in some IT company doing data entry work, relatively menial, but he earned only about 2500 rupees per month, which is roughly $55 per month! Add to this, he was married and had 2 kids. No job security, nothing. A family of four supported by ONLY $55 per month! His wife worked as a maid, and they too are paid peanuts I guess, since there's no minimum wage. If I remember correctly, he also used to travel 1 hour every day to work.

Well, so he fell sick and the company fired him for not showing up to work for a week and hired someone from a scheduled caste/tribe as they were from a reserved quota. I guess the pressure of feeding his family was too much and he ended it. Terrible. All kinds of struggles, just because of a stupid government rule.


Thank you for this great insight and your views on rascism and discrimination. Trully thought provoking and eloquently made.

:up:

Thank you to you too for the sane discussion. :) :up:

[anthonyvop]

Terrible. All kinds of struggles, just because of a stupid government rule.




How is it the Government's fault?

[CaptainRaiden]

How is it the Government's fault?

Because the government put the rule in place. In fact, if I remember correctly, there was even some tax rebate offered for private companies that hired those from scheduled caste/tribes. Plus they have seats secured in medical schools, engineering colleges etc. as part of a quota, also jobs in government sectors and banks. There were plenty of strikes/demonstrations against this.

[Eki]

How is it the Government's fault?
I'm surprised. Don't you think everything is the Government's fault?

[glauistean]

X...the sad reality of it is, Europeans used to ridicule the Americans for their views on blacks and their place in America. Yet, most of the openly rude racism is in Europe....towards blacks, Indians, Arabs, Turks, Gypsy's or Jews. Not to say everyone in Europe is racist, but racism and bigotry is alive in well everywhere in the civilized world. The thing is, sometimes it is institutionalized and not what it appears to be.....

Mark, we agree on this. There was a post just before yours about the gentleman from India with the Romanian wife. His showed the Nazi element involved in soccer. This permeates Europe. Very sad. They are call Ulta's or Ultra's. Big clubs, mostly mainland Europe have these fringe groups with no interest in soccer. However, they have a huge interest in racism.

There was a time in English Football when a black player had to endure vicious taunts not only from rival supporters but from his own club fans. This was twenty years ago and maybe some of our British fans can enlighten me as to the situation now. It does seem better. Bad to see these hard right groups emerging with a combined IQ of possibly 75 but led by those with substantially more. Sheep.

[BDunnell]

I don't think 'hard right groups' are a great problem. They occasionally come out of the woodwork and gain undue prominence but their influence is negligible and they are best ignored. Far more pernicious in the UK at least is the apparent increase in those who believe that making racist, homophobic, etc remarks is acceptable on the grounds that to do so is 'politically incorrect'. The practitioners of such nonsense are always deeply tiresome, witless individuals of the first order.

[harsha]

wow , where doesn't racism exist...

you just have to ignore some things and move on i guess

[anthonyvop]

wow , where doesn't racism exist...

you just have to ignore some things and move on i guess

Bingo.

[anthonyvop]

Because the government put the rule in place. In fact, if I remember correctly, there was even some tax rebate offered for private companies that hired those from scheduled caste/tribes. Plus they have seats secured in medical schools, engineering colleges etc. as part of a quota, also jobs in government sectors and banks. There were plenty of strikes/demonstrations against this.

And those rules caused someone to commit suicide?
That is totally illogical.

[BDunnell]

And those rules caused someone to commit suicide?
That is totally illogical.

So is the state of mind of anyone who wishes to commit suicide. Reason and logic don't come into the decision.

[anthonyvop]

So is the state of mind of anyone who wishes to commit suicide. Reason and logic don't come into the decision.

By it's very definition Suicide cannot be caused by force. If forced then it is homicide.


Definition of SUICIDE
1a : the act or an instance of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally especially by a person of years of discretion and of sound mind b : ruin of one's own interests <political suicide> c : apoptosis <cell suicide>
2: one that commits or attempts suicide

[BDunnell]

By it's very definition Suicide cannot be caused by force. If forced then it is homicide.

What on earth are you on about? In what sense does that refer to anything I posted?

[CaptainRaiden]

And those rules caused someone to commit suicide?
That is totally illogical.

Do you have problems understanding plain English or are you just trolling? I never said stupid government rules cause someone to commit suicide. What I said was that they make life harder for people working in the government sector, and lately in the private sector. If someone commits suicide, it's their choice, not the government's. I thought this was pretty obvious.

[CaptainRaiden]

wow , where doesn't racism exist...

you just have to ignore some things and move on i guess

Exactly. If you start responding to every little thing, it's gonna be a long frustrating day.

[Roamy]

Well I think suicide is a personal preference. Certainly things can cause one to take this route and hopefully we can sense that and try to help. But at the end of the day people who commit suicide usually do that in spite of people intervening. One of my best friend committed suicide and I often thought I should have done more. Then a friend of mine who knew at least three people who committed suicide told me to leave it alone. I offered friendship at no cost and would have be at his side in a moments notice if he asked. I suppose economic conditions played into the decision, but at the end he knew he had friends that would get him through. But on the other side of the coin I probably would not seek help from friends in time of crisis. Maybe family. Some people just decide they don't want to live anymore and for my personal reasons I want them to. It is not up to me.. I will help just about anyone who is contemplating suicide - but just because the decision is quite final. I was close enough to this person that he could have called and told me "HELP"
And Visa Versa.

[gadjo_dilo]

You said at the start of your post that you're not in denial of such cases, but later you completely contradicted yourself. And just wonderful, so she's probably lying to promote her career, but NO! there can be absolutely NO racism or ethnic hatred or discrimination in Romania in Mr. gadjo dilo's opinion. Romanians are God's gift to the world, and when they fart only bunnies come out, sprinkling flowers, spreading joy and prosperity everywhere.

Why do you have such a hard time admitting that there MIGHT be racist people in your country? I mean you've heard more than enough accounts, but yet you keep trying to dismiss them as lies or in some cases obsession or oversensitivity. This is straight up denial man. I know you're proud of your country and all, but at least try to open your mind to the possibility of something. I am an Indian and I'm man enough to admit that there are plenty of racist incidents and racism in India, which I'm not proud of.

And why the heck would she lie about what happened to her in Romania to move her career forward in America man? I've actually met some Americans who don't even know if a country called Romania exists. They thought it dissolved into Russia. :laugh: She would get more traction if she said the same lie about a place like UK or Germany, would get way much more press. On top of this, she's a well established singer, and a talented and active one at that too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christina_Milian. As far as acting goes, she's nothing special, but still worthwhile. Also, her ONLY racism complaint was when she came to Romania, so this is clearly not a person who cries racism at every chance.

As for Wesley Snipes and 50 Cent goes, I'm going to take a page out of your book and deny that they DIDN'T have a bad experience. Maybe they had to face racism, but didn't tell anyone. ) In all seriousness though, Snipes is a major movie star and well known, so is 50 Cent as a musician. You can just see Romanian teenagers all dressing up like him, trying to imitate the rapper dress code, while Romanians have not been exposed to Christina Milian that much, so I guess that explains it.

Now wait a minute...If that is what you understand from my posts you're completely wrong. I want to underline that romanians as a nation aren't racist ( but I admit they're a bit nationalist :laugh: ) but as every forest has its dryness there are cases when some of them become offensive. But even in those cases it's most likely stupidity than hatred. The incident in the restaurant was obviously a joke and if you like to persist in your belief then be healthy to do it.
As for Christina Millian, you yourself answered the question. It's easy to say bad things about a country when most of the readers don't know if it even exists. Saying she was discriminated in Germany ( who would believe this? )would have a less impact than saying it happened in some exotic place.
Then I see you don't understand our psychology at all. A black person is a black person no matter it's famous or not. But a beautiful woman no matter what colour she has is less probable to be the target of offences than an ugly white/black/yellow/green(:laugh :) person. ( which of course doesn't mean that her "assets " aren't marked with trivial expressions :laugh: ).

X-ecutioner, I blame you for changing my behaviour! Never in my life I turned my head to study a person. Even if they were a VIP or a woman whose outfit I wanted to copy. But yesterday I was on an escalator with a black guy ( fatality! haven't met one in flesh and blood for weeks ) and we were shoulder to shoulder so I couldn't see his face. Suddenly I became curious: how dark is he? Darker than a southern indian? So when we got off I turned my head and stared for a while. Then I thought: What if he's a member of some forum and he'll start a topic about a weird woman who looked at him as he was a rara avis?

And stop calling me " man " and " mr. ". Everybody knows I'm a woman ( didn't dare to say "lady" :laugh: ) and I might think you're a misogynist ( to use an euphemism for another type of discrimination).


Romanians are God's gift to the world, and when they fart only bunnies come out, sprinkling flowers, spreading joy and prosperity everywhere..
This was really mean to say but what can I expect from someone without the minimal sense of humour?
If I was jewish and guiding by the principle " eye for eye and tooth for tooth " I could say: well, we're not perfect but not that bad either:http://guzgan.ro/5376-frumoasa-india-17-poze.html
But I'm an othodox living in the magnificent (scarcely because it's far from being perfect ) and colurful world of the Balkans and I just say : forgive him God cos he doesn't know what he's saying. And I just hope that you'll remember how nice I spoke about your country despite seeing hundreds of disgustful pics like those.

[CaptainRaiden]

Now wait a minute...If that is what you understand from my posts you're completely wrong. I want to underline that romanians as a nation aren't racist ( but I admit they're a bit nationalist ) but as every forest has its dryness there are cases when some of them become offensive. But even in those cases it's most likely stupidity than hatred. The incident in the restaurant was obviously a joke and if you like to persist in your belief then be healthy to do it.
As for Christina Millian, you yourself answered the question. It's easy to say bad things about a country when most of the readers don't know if it even exists. Saying she was discriminated in Germany ( who would believe this? )would have a less impact than saying it happened in some exotic place.
Then I see you don't understand our psychology at all. A black person is a black person no matter it's famous or not. But a beautiful woman no matter what colour she has is less probable to be the target of offences than an ugly white/black/yellow/green() person. ( which of course doesn't mean that her "assets " aren't marked with trivial expressions :laugh: ).

Well, this will be a never ending thread if it goes on like this. I see you're pretty persistent in your beliefs, so I won't try to refute that any more, because this is like banging my head against a wall or playing a trumpet in front of a buffalo, or something to that effect. :D But would you agree that what you describe as "we" Romanians could just be your and only your opinion, right? It's like you're just in complete denial that your fellow compatriots COULD be wrong. Give them a chance. :p


X-ecutioner, I blame you for changing my behaviour! Never in my life I turned my head to study a person. Even if they were a VIP or a woman whose outfit I wanted to copy. But yesterday I was on an escalator with a black guy ( fatality! haven't met one in flesh and blood for weeks ) and we were shoulder to shoulder so I couldn't see his face. Suddenly I became curious: how dark is he? Darker than a southern indian? So when we got off I turned my head and stared for a while. Then I thought: What if he's a member of some forum and he'll start a topic about a weird woman who looked at him as he was a rara avis?

That should have been quite funny. Oh, and I'm used to things like these, so don't worry.


And stop calling me " man " and " mr. ". Everybody knows I'm a woman ( didn't dare to say "lady" ) and I might think you're a misogynist ( to use an euphemism for another type of discrimination).

Oops, my bad. Didn't know you were a woman. Sorry, Ms. gadjo dilo. :D


This was really mean to say but what can I expect from someone without the minimal sense of humour?

Well, you talk about "authentic" balkan sense of humor, but you fail to understand sarcasm? Oh the irony! :laugh: Of course that wasn't meant to be serious! It was a sarcastic remark at you denying point blank that there is a teeny, tiny possibility of a bunch of Romanians being racist, and instead saying that the singer was lying. BTW, nice touch on the pics. I can find many disgusting pictures of Romania as well by using Google, but won't do that.

[gadjo_dilo]

Well, this will be a never ending thread if it goes on like this. I see you're pretty persistent in your beliefs, so I won't try to refute that any more, because this is like banging my head against a wall or playing a trumpet in front of a buffalo, or something to that effect. :D But would you agree that what you describe as "we" Romanians could just be your and only your opinion, right? It's like you're just in complete denial that your fellow compatriots COULD be wrong. Give them a chance. .
I'm also fed up with this. So, to quote com. Soric : Case closed! :laugh: :laugh:


Well, you talk about "authentic" balkan sense of humor, but you fail to understand sarcasm? Oh the irony! :laugh: Of course that wasn't meant to be serious! It was a sarcastic remark at you denying point blank that there is a teeny, tiny possibility of a bunch of Romanians being racist, and instead saying that the singer was lying. BTW, nice touch on the pics. I can find many disgusting pictures of Romania as well by using Google, but won't do that.

I understand sarcasm but I don't appreciate it. The balkanic spirit is characterized by chaos, black humour, sorrow, passionate love, ingenuity. We laugh at somebody's weakness or mistakes but we do this with understanding, sympathy and even fondness. Never condemn them. Our laugh is more like an extension of a general atitude towards existance than an explosion of joy.

According to DEX, in romanian sarcasm means "Ironie aspră, usturatoare; batjocura necrutatoare" -ask your wife to translate it, my english is too poor. Humour is meant to make you laugh, sarcasm has a dose of wickedness which is meant to "bite" and it hurts.


I bet you may find horrible pics. Matter of fact even I posted a few. However I confess I didn't associate them with disgust but with absurdity. And absurd things make me laugh...... A bitter laugh....

[donKey jote]

eh? gadjo_dilo is a gadja_dila? :eek: :p

[CaptainRaiden]

I understand sarcasm but I don't appreciate it. The balkanic spirit is characterized by chaos, black humour, sorrow, passionate love, ingenuity. We laugh at somebody's weakness or mistakes but we do this with understanding, sympathy and even fondness. Never condemn them. Our laugh is more like an extension of a general atitude towards existance than an explosion of joy.

You're okay with black humor AND uncomfortable/inappropriate jokes but have a problem with sarcasm? Ahem, I really don't know what to say to that. So, it's okay for one to make idiotic jokes about a specific race's painful history, and laugh about it, but it all goes downhill when somebody dares to make a sarcastic joke about another specific group. :erm:

[gadjo_dilo]

eh? gadjo_dilo is a gadja_dila? :eek: :p

Don't think that's the feminine term. But definitely I can't be a gadjika. :laugh:

[gadjo_dilo]

You're okay with black humor AND uncomfortable/inappropriate jokes but have a problem with sarcasm? Ahem, I really don't know what to say to that.

Say nothing. :laugh:

[Mark in Oshawa]

Gadjo, I have never for one thought you a racist....

Gee..all this nice stuff is getting to me...Glauistean and I agreed on something too....What is happening to me? lol...