Homestead Cup race thread

[MD24]

Ford 400

Sunday, November 21

Green Flag 1:15 pm/et

Qualifying: Friday 3:10 pm/et

[Steve-o]

Hamlin, Johnson, Harvick talk about the championship.

http://www.fanviewpoint.com/2010/11/hamlin-speaks-with-swagger-as-nascars.html

[MD24]

1 83 Kasey Kahne
2 99 Carl Edwards
3 1 Jamie McMurray
4 21 Bill Elliott
5 43 A.J. Allmendinger
6 48 Jimmie Johnson
7 00 David Reutimann
8 5 Mark Martin
9 6 David Ragan
10 78 Regan Smith

11 24 Jeff Gordon
12 19 Elliott Sadler
13 17 Matt Kenseth
14 31 Jeff Burton
15 2 Kurt Busch
16 98 Paul Menard
17 33 Clint Bowyer
18 12 Brad Keselowski
19 20 Joey Logano
20 47 Marcos Ambrose

21 36 J.J. Yeley
22 88 Dale Earnhardt Jr.
23 39 Ryan Newman
24 9 Aric Almirola
25 56 Martin Truex Jr.
26 77 Sam Hornish Jr.
27 16 Greg Biffle
28 29 Kevin Harvick
29 87 Joe Nemechek
30 66 Mike Bliss

31 14 Tony Stewart
32 09 Bobby Labonte
33 18 Kyle Busch
34 13 Casey Mears
35 71 Andy Lally
36 38 Dave Blaney
37 11 Denny Hamlin
38 37 David Gilliland
39 34 Travis Kvapil
40 42 Juan Montoya

41 82 Scott Speed
42 7 Kevin Conway
43 164 Landon Cassill

Did Not Qualify
44 46 Michael McDowell
45 26 Patrick Carpentier

[Alexamateo]

Surprised to see Hamlin 37th, but like they said, he started 38th last year and he won, so anythings possible. It seems like Harvick has been starting in the 20's all year so nothing different there. To tell the truth, I'm hoping Harvick wins in order to make things really interesting Sunday.

Let's line 'em up and run, I'm ready!

[MD24]

Let's line 'em up and run, I'm ready!

Can't wait, it should be a good one

[scotchman]

All shaping up for a great final race.

I'm just concerned that Open Access (Sky channel 190) is going to do the same thing as last week and list the race in the tv schedules and then not show it at all!

I really, really hope that they haven't abandoned all the UK fans and ditched their excellent coverage right at the end of the season...

[djparky]

All shaping up for a great final race.

I'm just concerned that Open Access (Sky channel 190) is going to do the same thing as last week and list the race in the tv schedules and then not show it at all!

I really, really hope that they haven't abandoned all the UK fans and ditched their excellent coverage right at the end of the season...


well it's on OA channel but the picture quality is a but flakey at the moment

[Jag_Warrior]

Biffle is laying black marks as he spins the tires trying to get out of the corners! This is great stuff! None of that foot-to-the-floor, hang-onto-the-wheel stuff here! :up:

[djparky]

dammit- Johnson wins another championship. AMazing 5 in a row- I bet NASCAR didn't envisage this when they introduced the Chase

I was really hoping that Hamlin would win- he never realloy had the car to do it- and why is it always Jeff Gordon who has problems and never Jimmie Johnson??

[TURN3]

dammit- Johnson wins another championship. AMazing 5 in a row- I bet NASCAR didn't envisage this when they introduced the Chase

I was really hoping that Hamlin would win- he never realloy had the car to do it- and why is it always Jeff Gordon who has problems and never Jimmie Johnson??

I'm not particular fan of 48 but I'm finding it hard not to be impressed with 5 in a row FOR THIS ERA. The emotion over the radio in my opinion was something special. That is what competing at the top level is supposed to be about. Good for him and congrats BUT...I'll be rooting for somebody to knock him off again next year.

[Jag_Warrior]

I had to Tivo the last half and watch it late last night. What a race!!!!!!! That was the first NASCAR race in a very long time (or maybe ever) that had me on the edge of my seat from the drop of the flag to the end!

Things I learned this year:

1) Jimmie Johnson and Chad Knaus are one helluva team - easily the best in NASCAR.
2) I preferred the Fox coverage and commentators this season over the ESPN crew by a long shot. I wish all the races were on Fox.
3) I gained mucho respect for Carl Edwards, Harvick, Hamlin and several others, who proved that they were rock solid racers yesterday.

Congrats to Jimmie Johnson and the entire 48 team. Love him or not, the guy did what he needed to do to cement himself as a legend in our time.

[harvick#1]

I'm not particular fan of 48 but I'm finding it hard not to be impressed with 5 in a row FOR THIS ERA. The emotion over the radio in my opinion was something special. That is what competing at the top level is supposed to be about. Good for him and congrats BUT...I'll be rooting for somebody to knock him off again next year.



whats worse is Harvick had a better average finish in the Chase over Jimmie Johnson.

this is why the chase is a farce

[Mark in Oshawa]

whats worse is Harvick had a better average finish in the Chase over Jimmie Johnson.

this is why the chase is a farce

no....The Chase uses the same points the old system did. Again, you just have a one note band and you don't get it...and that is fine.....

If he had led laps and won a race or two, then Harvick would have won. You know..winning races, leading laps, that is the point???

[harvick#1]

I dont find artificial championship amusing.

Vettel earned his, as did Loeb and Dario. no autoracing champion should ever be through a playoff. its a farce for Brian to even come up with this retarded deal.

and just wait until next year as rumors are they will expand to 15 drivers (cough cough to get Earnhardt in the chase) and after resetting the points after 26 races, they will once again now reset with 3 races to go. boy, doesnt that make such a great champion.

the better driver got screwed once againn because of the awful chase

[slorydn1]

no....The Chase uses the same points the old system did. Again, you just have a one note band and you don't get it...and that is fine.....

If he had led laps and won a race or two, then Harvick would have won. You know..winning races, leading laps, that is the point???

So I guess the point is to have a guy crowned the GOAT for winning 5 10 race periods in a row?

My brother says it best. The first 26 races of the season mean NOTHING. PERIOD.

Heck, Mark, you unwittingly make that argument for us year after year. When I bring up the fact that at least twice in that 5 year span JJ got crushed by around 300 points or so for the season your argument is that they (meaning the 48) race the first 26 races "differently" than they would otherwise, trying things out for the chase. Exactly my point! And who is getting cheated? The dumb idiots, myself included, that spend $95-100 for a ticket to a meaningless contest that doesn't happen to be in the last 10. That's why I stopped going to Darlington. It doesn't matter.

Do you remember Indy? JJ had an atrocious day and he looked right into the camera and smirked "Oh well, not to worry, this track isn't in the Chase." I am SO glad I wasn't standing next to him right then or I most certainly would be spending some time in jail. Indy is arguably the second biggest race of the entire season and with that one statement our illustrious 5 time champ consigned that race (and truthfully with it the Daytona 500) to the realm of
second tier races. Thanks Jimmie!

And now they are talking about adjusting the Chase again to make it even more of a farce. The latest tweak they are hearing about on Nascar Raceday (Speed) is that they will expand the field to 15 and reset the points AGAIN with 3 or 4 races to go. That maybe in response to the threat that JJ came close to NOT EVEN MAKING the chase this year. Back in august he was within 100 points of falling out of contention but then magicly turned it up again and made it comfortably, in 6th place. The adjusted "points leader" after richmond had been p9 before the adjustment...P9!

Our "Champion" finished fully a quarter of the races outside of the top 25 this year. The first two in points did win a bunch of races, but were horribly inconsistent throughout the year.

I will give JJ credit, tho. He did, again, win the FIA point standings by 9 over Harvick (I am getting ready to post all of that in the other threads here in a few). He would also be a 5 time champion if that was the system we have been using all these years, just not 5 in a row. I guess that is what really rubs me the wrong way. All the stick and ballers are abuzz (watching the Dan Patrick show now as I type this) with this 5 in a row deal and it makes me want to vomit profusely.

[TURN3]

whats worse is Harvick had a better average finish in the Chase over Jimmie Johnson.

this is why the chase is a farce

Sorry, they all raced by the same rules. Harvick led the points all year and when it counted, he choked. He finished 3rd.

[harvick#1]

Sorry, they all raced by the same rules. Harvick led the points all year and when it counted, he choked. He finished 3rd.

how did he choke, he had a higher average finish 5.8 to Johnsons 6.1 :mark:

[TURN3]

how did he choke, he had a higher average finish 5.8 to Johnsons 6.1 :mark:

Simple, he finished behind him AND Hamlin. A perfect definition of choking in sports is when you lead the championship points all year, then finish 3rd when it counts. Afterall, isn't that the philosphy you used against Kyle Busch after he choked a few years back? He choked, he wasn't the better driver and they weren't the better team. KKKKCCCHHHH <-------- Choking noise coming from inside the 29.

[TURN3]

So I guess the point is to have a guy crowned the GOAT for winning 5 10 race periods in a row?

My brother says it best. The first 26 races of the season mean NOTHING. PERIOD.

Heck, Mark, you unwittingly make that argument for us year after year. When I bring up the fact that at least twice in that 5 year span JJ got crushed by around 300 points or so for the season your argument is that they (meaning the 48) race the first 26 races "differently" than they would otherwise, trying things out for the chase. Exactly my point! And who is getting cheated? The dumb idiots, myself included, that spend $95-100 for a ticket to a meaningless contest that doesn't happen to be in the last 10. That's why I stopped going to Darlington. It doesn't matter.

Do you remember Indy? JJ had an atrocious day and he looked right into the camera and smirked "Oh well, not to worry, this track isn't in the Chase." I am SO glad I wasn't standing next to him right then or I most certainly would be spending some time in jail. Indy is arguably the second biggest race of the entire season and with that one statement our illustrious 5 time champ consigned that race (and truthfully with it the Daytona 500) to the realm of
second tier races. Thanks Jimmie!

And now they are talking about adjusting the Chase again to make it even more of a farce. The latest tweak they are hearing about on Nascar Raceday (Speed) is that they will expand the field to 15 and reset the points AGAIN with 3 or 4 races to go. That maybe in response to the threat that JJ came close to NOT EVEN MAKING the chase this year. Back in august he was within 100 points of falling out of contention but then magicly turned it up again and made it comfortably, in 6th place. The adjusted "points leader" after richmond had been p9 before the adjustment...P9!

Our "Champion" finished fully a quarter of the races outside of the top 25 this year. The first two in points did win a bunch of races, but were horribly inconsistent throughout the year.

I will give JJ credit, tho. He did, again, win the FIA point standings by 9 over Harvick (I am getting ready to post all of that in the other threads here in a few). He would also be a 5 time champion if that was the system we have been using all these years, just not 5 in a row. I guess that is what really rubs me the wrong way. All the stick and ballers are abuzz (watching the Dan Patrick show now as I type this) with this 5 in a row deal and it makes me want to vomit profusely.

I agree with your comments. Like I said before JJ's championship accomplishments cannot be judged based on the entire history of NASCAR, only of the chase era. Is he the GOAT? Not in my opinion when you consider the real men of the 50's 60', 70's, etc. were racing just as hard, just as fast, in death traps on death tracks. What the 48 team has accomplished over the past 5 years will only be judged 40 years from now when we see what history builds for the chase era. His accomplishments for now though cannot be disregarded, he's won 5 in a row on an equal playing field to 42 others. He was in 2 other chases up to the final weekend before that. All things considered, yes it is pretty remarkable. But historical significance cannot be judged today.

[harvick#1]

Simple, he finished behind him AND Hamlin. A perfect definition of choking in sports is when you lead the championship points all year, then finish 3rd when it counts. Afterall, isn't that the philosphy you used against Kyle Busch after he choked a few years back? He choked, he wasn't the better driver and they weren't the better team. KKKKCCCHHHH <-------- Choking noise coming from inside the 29.

you would know that the old points system Harvick won it by around 300 points.


its too bad Johnson needs to get a handicap to win championships for the chase since hes never once been the point leader heading into the chase

[TURN3]

you would know that the old points system Harvick won it by around 300 points.


its too bad Johnson needs to get a handicap to win championships for the chase since hes never once been the point leader heading into the chase

When is the last time the "old points system" was used Harv? That is what I thought. How many chases have now been won by the guy that didn't win on the "old points system"? Correct again, ZERO. Well there may have been a few by coincidence but the fact is since they started this thing whoever won the first 26 didn't matter. It is who wins the last 10.

Like the chase or not, that point is irrelevant. That fact is they all play by the same rules these days and when it counted, in the chase, Harvick CHOKED, period.

KKKKKCCCCCCHHHHHGGGGGG

[Mark in Oshawa]

So I guess the point is to have a guy crowned the GOAT for winning 5 10 race periods in a row?

My brother says it best. The first 26 races of the season mean NOTHING. PERIOD.

I didn't say it was the best way to do it, but in a season that is 10 races long for the top 12 guys, somehow Jimmie keeps finding ways to finish on top. In this shortened "season", a bad finish can knock you out. You want to again tell me what the odds are against a guy doing it 5 years in a row? No one in the cars is saying he is cheating or making it easy, they are admiring how he keeps finding ways to finish on top.


Heck, Mark, you unwittingly make that argument for us year after year. When I bring up the fact that at least twice in that 5 year span JJ got crushed by around 300 points or so for the season your argument is that they (meaning the 48) race the first 26 races "differently" than they would otherwise, trying things out for the chase. Exactly my point! And who is getting cheated? The dumb idiots, myself included, that spend $95-100 for a ticket to a meaningless contest that doesn't happen to be in the last 10. That's why I stopped going to Darlington. It doesn't matter.

If you don't want to go see a good race at a classic race track, that is your loss. You I suppose they should just forget the NFL or NBA regular seasons? Why do we see 162 baseball games a year when we have the playoffs? You go because you enjoy the sport. Ask anyone who MISSES the chase how important those points are in the first 26.


Do you remember Indy? JJ had an atrocious day and he looked right into the camera and smirked "Oh well, not to worry, this track isn't in the Chase." I am SO glad I wasn't standing next to him right then or I most certainly would be spending some time in jail. Indy is arguably the second biggest race of the entire season and with that one statement our illustrious 5 time champ consigned that race (and truthfully with it the Daytona 500) to the realm of
second tier races. Thanks Jimmie!

It was his way of making light of a crappy finish but he has gone out of his way to win the race too. Hardly the real attitude of a guy who doesn't car. What track outside of roadcourses hasn't the 48 won at? Not sure if you are counting but at the rate he is going, he will be right up there in total race wins too...and many are won in the first 26. He isn't cruising out there...


And now they are talking about adjusting the Chase again to make it even more of a farce. The latest tweak they are hearing about on Nascar Raceday (Speed) is that they will expand the field to 15 and reset the points AGAIN with 3 or 4 races to go. That maybe in response to the threat that JJ came close to NOT EVEN MAKING the chase this year. Back in august he was within 100 points of falling out of contention but then magicly turned it up again and made it comfortably, in 6th place. The adjusted "points leader" after richmond had been p9 before the adjustment...P9!

Our "Champion" finished fully a quarter of the races outside of the top 25 this year. The first two in points did win a bunch of races, but were horribly inconsistent throughout the year.

I am not for changing the Chase and I would have left it to a top 10. Still think though if you are still complaining about it, you are still a fan of the sport and you watch. So while we can agree we don't want the Chase tinkered with further, the point is whether you like it at all or you don't, you still watch, so where is NASCAR losing here? You can just walk away, and go watch regular season NFL football. Tell me how those Carolina Panthers are doing? Their whole season was a waste of time yet I bet they still sell out.......you go because you enjoy the spectacle....


I will give JJ credit, tho. He did, again, win the FIA point standings by 9 over Harvick (I am getting ready to post all of that in the other threads here in a few). He would also be a 5 time champion if that was the system we have been using all these years, just not 5 in a row. I guess that is what really rubs me the wrong way. All the stick and ballers are abuzz (watching the Dan Patrick show now as I type this) with this 5 in a row deal and it makes me want to vomit profusely.

IN the old system, who is to say he and Chad didn't gamble as much going for wins in the first 26 and just points raced everyone to death and won anyhow? You can split hairs all you like, but if we were under the old system, there is no drama and half the time the champion is crowned with 3 races left as often as not. Rare was the day when you had guys going for the championship and it in doubt in the last race.

[harvick#1]

When is the last time the "old points system" was used Harv? That is what I thought. How many chases have now been won by the guy that didn't win on the "old points system"? Correct again, ZERO. Well there may have been a few by coincidence but the fact is since they started this thing whoever won the first 26 didn't matter. It is who wins the last 10.


Stewart in 2005 was the only one who came in and won it all, so you would be wrong.

this is whats truely sad, and the numbers dont lie, how can you give a championship to the 2nd best driver, cause its nascar.

Harvicks average finish for the entire 2010 season was 8.7!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8.7!!!!!!

not one other driver was higher than 11.

your god had a 12.2 average finish.

damn facts truely suck who was the better driver this year. like I said, Nascar is the only autoracing series that no longer has a "true" champion. and for people to try and compare it to what Earnhardt, Petty, or Gordon have done is just truely insane.

[Lee Roy]

damn facts truely suck who was the better driver this year. like I said, Nascar is the only autoracing series that no longer has a "true" champion. and for people to try and compare it to what Earnhardt, Petty, or Gordon have done is just truely insane.

Petty won his 7 championships under 5 different systems. It's the same for everyone at the beginning of the season. The champion emerges at the end of the season. It wasn't Harvick.

Facts only suck for some people.

[wedge]

Congrats to JJ. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the points systems it once again came down to the Homestead so you cannot say JJ didn't earn to the right to be champ.

And I'll sign off with a pop quiz: Here's a question for you - who's second in points right now?

Dick Trickle! :rotflmao:

[Lee Roy]

My brother says it best. The first 26 races of the season mean NOTHING. PERIOD.

Ask they guy who was 13th in points after the 26th race is the first 26 races means nothing. He might disagree with your brother.

[slorydn1]

Simple, he finished behind him AND Hamlin. A perfect definition of choking in sports is when you lead the championship points all year, then finish 3rd when it counts. Afterall, isn't that the philosphy you used against Kyle Busch after he choked a few years back? He choked, he wasn't the better driver and they weren't the better team. KKKKCCCHHHH <-------- Choking noise coming from inside the 29.

He didn't choke...in fact he outscored the 11 by almost 30 points, and just a few points less than Johnson- or have you forgotten the seeding in which what you do over the first 26 races means nothing.....he started out 30 points behind Hamlin and 20 points behind Johnson, even though Johnson was over 300 back and Denny was almost 500 points behind Harvick at Richmond....
Forgot that, didn't ya... Harvick outscored Denny by 28 and was outscored by JJ by just 21....and considering Harv's teamate Boyay stole 15 points from Harv at dega I wouldn't exactly say Harvick choked. If anyone did it was Hamlin. Harv spent the entire chase trying to overcome the 30 point penalty the Chase seeding imposed on him. Just did the math, and JJ would still have won the pre-2009 chase deal too, by just 15 points over Harvick, and Denny would have been approximately 60 points back....

And Harvick1 is right, his avg finish of 5.8 crushes his season long avg finish of 8.7, so instead of choking, the 29 definitely stepped it UP over the last 10

[wbcobrar]

Congrats to the #48 team. THE TRUE CHAMPION. All this loser talk is disgusting to me. I am not a huge fan of the chase, the entire format was created because my favorite driver was deemed to boring to be a champ. The rules were in place at the beginning of the year, and the #48 team raced themselves to a 5th crown using a strategy crafted to those rules. I will never root for the #48, BUT I have tremendous respect for there accomplishments. I understand being sick of them, and the pain of being so close to your favorite driver winning and coming up short, but the whining and loser talk must stop.

[slorydn1]

How many chases have now been won by the guy that didn't win on the "old points system"?

There have been 7 chases. The MAJORITY of them (4) have been won by the guy who DID NOT get it done over the entire season to wit:


1) 2004-Kurt Busch won the Chase, but really was p4, 247 back...Jeff Gordon was the first victim-he beat JJ by 47 that year

2) 2007-JJ won the chase, but was really CRUSHED by Jeff Gordon for the whole season to the tune of 353 points...

3) 2008-JJ won the chase, by 69 over Edwards...in fact it was already basically over the week before...in a cruel twist Edwards would have won by just 16 over JJ the other way and we the fans got robbed of an exiting final race in which Edwards won the race, led the most laps, and JJ fell to p15 at the end as the fuel mileage deal game came to play..... Thnaks Bri-Bri

4) 2010 JJ won the chase, but Kevin Harvick stomped his tail to the tune of 285 points for the second largest chase era screwing...

Oh, and although JJ won both ways in 2006, it woukld have been much closer (and Homestead a whole lot more interesting) as Kenseth only would have lost by only 4 points, as opposed to the 56 points it ended up being.

Why does the Chase exist to begin with? Because the PRESS went ape over the fact that a "1 race" winner dominated the rest of the field in 2003 and it wasn't exciting enough at the end of the season. Well, except for twice (2004 and 2010) the Chase has failed MISERABLY to deliver on that, and in those seven years 2 of those season's (2006 and 2008) still would have been in the top 5 closest in Nascar history. 2 years, albeit different ones, both ways. And we, the fans have to sit here and debate who had the best season instead of just knowing that they driver hoisting the cup is the one.

[TURN3]

this is whats truely sad, and the numbers dont lie, how can you give a championship to the 2nd best driver, cause its nascar.

your god had a 12.2 average finish.

Name one sport that doesn't afford the opportunity of a 2nd or 3rd best team to be crowned champion? I certainly won't get an argument that Duke was NOT the best college basketball team in the country last year but there WERE the champion. You want to talk about who the "best" driver was this year there are all sorts of criteria. I would argue the guy who finished 2nd was the best driver this year. The same guy that won the most races, and raced 1/3 of the year with a tore up leg. Am I wrong? Matter of opinion.

And JJ is now my "God". Watch your tone jealous one. I've stated numerous times I'm not a fan. You really need to come down from your Harvick God pulpit and look at reality. You really do remind me of DanicaFan when it comes to Harvick. I wish you would realize that because otherwise you're a good fan and I appreciate your posts.


Petty won his 7 championships under 5 different systems. It's the same for everyone at the beginning of the season. The champion emerges at the end of the season. It wasn't Harvick.

Facts only suck for some people.

Good point.


Ask they guy who was 13th in points after the 26th race is the first 26 races means nothing. He might disagree with your brother.

Also a good point even though I agreed with Slory about the first 26 being of less significance.


He didn't choke...in fact he outscored the 11 by almost 30 points, and just a few points less than Johnson- or have you forgotten the seeding in which what you do over the first 26 races means nothing.....he started out 30 points behind Hamlin and 20 points behind Johnson, even though Johnson was over 300 back and Denny was almost 500 points behind Harvick at Richmond....
Forgot that, didn't ya... Harvick outscored Denny by 28 and was outscored by JJ by just 21....and considering Harv's teamate Boyay stole 15 points from Harv at dega I wouldn't exactly say Harvick choked. If anyone did it was Hamlin. Harv spent the entire chase trying to overcome the 30 point penalty the Chase seeding imposed on him. Just did the math, and JJ would still have won the pre-2009 chase deal too, by just 15 points over Harvick, and Denny would have been approximately 60 points back....

And Harvick1 is right, his avg finish of 5.8 crushes his season long avg finish of 8.7, so instead of choking, the 29 definitely stepped it UP over the last 10

Nah, he choked. He "dominated" all season long with this average finish but yet he didn't WIN enough to get a good seeding. What is racing about? Winning. He went into the chase after building a lead all season but clearly wan't the better driver when it actually counted. They didn't change the rules of the season with 10 to go, in fact the chase has been in place for several years now. Again, EVERYBODY PLAYED BY THE SAME RULES!!! Harvicks choke was no different than Kyle Busch or Jeff Gordon in their respective dominant years. I use Busch as an example because Harv1 hates him so. To him it is a matter of convenience as to when to apply principals. He stated months ago that Kyle choked during an discussion on why Harvick is "so much better". The principals of an argument apply the same way to all in my book. A choke by driver "a" 3 years ago is a choke by driver "b" this year. Sorry, Harv1 made that a principal by his statements back then.

[slorydn1]

Congrats to the #48 team. THE TRUE CHAMPION. All this loser talk is disgusting to me. I am not a huge fan of the chase, the entire format was created because my favorite driver was deemed to boring to be a champ. The rules were in place at the beginning of the year, and the #48 team raced themselves to a 5th crown using a strategy crafted to those rules. I will never root for the #48, BUT I have tremendous respect for there accomplishments. I understand being sick of them, and the pain of being so close to your favorite driver winning and coming up short, but the whining and loser talk must stop.


For the last time: This is RACING. Not Football. Not Basketball. Not Baseball-or any other stick and ball sport of your choice....

In any of those sports-Team A goes to play Team B at their place win/or lose and move on to face Team C the next week. A Win/Loss record is compiled. The top 12, 16 or 8 teams (in the listed examples) are then chosen to play each other, one at a time, until there is ONE team left undefeated at the end of the year. We all know that, and we all love that about those sports.

In racing, the same guys face each other week in and week out for however many races there are in a season (in our sport there are 36)

I shouldn't have quoted you for this post, I really should have quoted Lee Roy, because he is RIGHT. Petty won his seven Championships in 5 different points systems, some of them so complicated I still haven't been able to figure them out. But they ALL had one common thread. They encompassed an entire season's worth of work.

A racing championship season has always been like one big race, with each race in it equivalent to what a lap would be in an individual race. It starts with the green flag in the first race and ends with the checkered flag in the last race, and whoever accumulates the most points at the end of the year wins. That's the way it's supposed to be.

I would not have been and still am not against a change in the points system, because, to be truthful, the addition of the Chase was not a change in the points system, it still with the minor modification to first place points the same system that has been in place since 1975.

And to say that I am "Whining" just because my driver is the latest victim is in fact, insulting. I have been against this chase deal since 2004 when one of my least favorite drivers got screwed. I was screaming from the rafters that my LEAST favorite driver (Carl Edwards) got screwed (Mark can back me up on that, we have had this conversation before). I said it last year when JJ won the Championship in ANY existing points structure there is (Pre-2009 Chase, Post 2009 Chase, Classic Latford, FIA 10 point win, FIA 25 point win, Indy Car-you name it, he won it every way I could think of).

I don't hate Jimmie Johnson. I know some people around here in my town who were like I hope Denny or Kevin win it just to keep JJ from getting it. I was not one of those. When it came down to the last couple of races, yes I wanted MY driver to win it, but if not then yeah, I wanted JJ to win it, if only to make Bri-Bri look like the meddling moron he is.

JJ is a great driver, and Chad Knaus may very well be the GOAT of all Crew Chiefs. JJ's 53 Cup wins rank him 2nd on the active cup list to his team mate Jeff Gordon (who had 58 wins in his first 9 seasons and is currently stuck at 82)......

In some ways, JJ is a victim in all this too-again because when Richard Petty, Dale Earnhardt or Jeff Gordon lifted the championship trophy at the end of the season there was no disputing that they were the best that year. JJ doesn't always get that respect and that is a shame, because he truly is a great driver.

[Sparky1329]

For the last time: This is RACING. Not Football. Not Basketball. Not Baseball-or any other stick and ball sport of your choice....

In any of those sports-Team A goes to play Team B at their place win/or lose and move on to face Team C the next week. A Win/Loss record is compiled. The top 12, 16 or 8 teams (in the listed examples) are then chosen to play each other, one at a time, until there is ONE team left undefeated at the end of the year. We all know that, and we all love that about those sports.

In racing, the same guys face each other week in and week out for however many races there are in a season (in our sport there are 36)

I shouldn't have quoted you for this post, I really should have quoted Lee Roy, because he is RIGHT. Petty won his seven Championships in 5 different points systems, some of them so complicated I still haven't been able to figure them out. But they ALL had one common thread. They encompassed an entire season's worth of work.

A racing championship season has always been like one big race, with each race in it equivalent to what a lap would be in an individual race. It starts with the green flag in the first race and ends with the checkered flag in the last race, and whoever accumulates the most points at the end of the year wins. That's the way it's supposed to be.

I would not have been and still am not against a change in the points system, because, to be truthful, the addition of the Chase was not a change in the points system, it still with the minor modification to first place points the same system that has been in place since 1975.

And to say that I am "Whining" just because my driver is the latest victim is in fact, insulting. I have been against this chase deal since 2004 when one of my least favorite drivers got screwed. I was screaming from the rafters that my LEAST favorite driver (Carl Edwards) got screwed (Mark can back me up on that, we have had this conversation before). I said it last year when JJ won the Championship in ANY existing points structure there is (Pre-2009 Chase, Post 2009 Chase, Classic Latford, FIA 10 point win, FIA 25 point win, Indy Car-you name it, he won it every way I could think of).

I don't hate Jimmie Johnson. I know some people around here in my town who were like I hope Denny or Kevin win it just to keep JJ from getting it. I was not one of those. When it came down to the last couple of races, yes I wanted MY driver to win it, but if not then yeah, I wanted JJ to win it, if only to make Bri-Bri look like the meddling moron he is.

JJ is a great driver, and Chad Knaus may very well be the GOAT of all Crew Chiefs. JJ's 53 Cup wins rank him 2nd on the active cup list to his team mate Jeff Gordon (who had 58 wins in his first 9 seasons and is currently stuck at 82)......

In some ways, JJ is a victim in all this too-again because when Richard Petty, Dale Earnhardt or Jeff Gordon lifted the championship trophy at the end of the season there was no disputing that they were the best that year. JJ doesn't always get that respect and that is a shame, because he truly is a great driver.

I agree with your entire post. A champion should be able to win on any kind of track for a whole season. A full-season consistency needs to count more than total wins.

It will be interesting to see if and how Brain will screw up the works with his revised and manufactured championship "playoff" for 2011. He has already beaten his Golden Goose half way to death. Will he kill it in 2011?

[wbcobrar]

I know there has been some obsession with the points systems and projecting what if scenario on who would or would not have won the championship biased on switching the points system after the season is over. I know all the drivers and teams say they try and win every race, and they don't pay attention to the points, bla,bla,bla. I hate the chase. I think it is stupid. The fact is, like it or not, that it was implemented. What makes the #48 team special is that they race to maximize points. In the "regular season" wins are all that matter, as long as you are top 12 those wins pay off. In "the chase" consistency and bonus points give you the championships.

[ShiftingGears]

They should ditch the chase. Hate it.

[Sparky1329]

They should ditch the chase. Hate it.

:up: