Hermann Tilke

[schmenke]

Why does the FIA continue to rely on him to design all new circuits. Abu Dabhi demonstrated, once again, that despite his efforst he is incapable of designing a circuit that produces exciting racing. China, Valencia and Abu Dabhi, to name a few, are all dreadful.
IMO, the most exciting circuits are all the non-Tilke venues: Spa, Monza, Montreal, Interlagos...
I understand that he is also designing the new US GP venue in Austin :mark: .
Is Tilke retained by the FIA (or FOM) for the design of all future circuits? Is there no one else available/capable?

[wedge]

He's got pictures of Bernie dressed in women's underwear and doing a Nazi salute

[BDunnell]

Here is the test. Can you remember the circuit layout without a diagram in front of you? I mean, I could talk you round Silverstone, Donington, Spa, Monza, Monaco, etc corner by corner. No way could I do the same with Yas Marina or most (any?) of the other Tilkedromes, no matter whether they might have interesting individual characteristics.

[wedge]

Here is the test. Can you remember the circuit layout without a diagram in front of you? I mean, I could talk you round Silverstone, Donington, Spa, Monza, Monaco, etc corner by corner. No way could I do the same with Yas Marina or most (any?) of the other Tilkedromes, no matter whether they might have interesting individual characteristics.

Call yourself a fan?

Want me to bore you with Istanbul, Bahrain, Malaysia, Hockenheim, A1 Ring?

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Why does the FIA continue to rely on him to design all new circuits. Abu Dabhi demonstrated, once again, that despite his efforst he is incapable of designing a circuit that produces exciting racing.

That is just not true. The A1-Ring and the Istanbul Park produce good racing, China usually has a lot of passing at the end of the long straight too. Yes, other circuits are dreadful.

[BDunnell]

Call yourself a fan?

Want me to bore you with Istanbul, Bahrain, Malaysia, Hockenheim, A1 Ring?

No, I call myself an enthusiast, not a fan.

I just happen to find all of the new-build Tilke circuits — so not Hockenheim, and not the A1-Ring — so tedious as to be utterly unmemorable.

[N. Jones]

Why does the FIA continue to rely on him to design all new circuits. Abu Dabhi demonstrated, once again, that despite his efforst he is incapable of designing a circuit that produces exciting racing. China, Valencia and Abu Dabhi, to name a few, are all dreadful.
IMO, the most exciting circuits are all the non-Tilke venues: Spa, Monza, Montreal, Interlagos...
I understand that he is also designing the new US GP venue in Austin :mark: .
Is Tilke retained by the FIA (or FOM) for the design of all future circuits? Is there no one else available/capable?

All the SpeedTV guys here is the US can do is gush about how great the circuit looks. All I see is a boring track with a bunch of lights around it.

Who cares how the whole facility looks, its the track that matters!

[V12]

Here is the test. Can you remember the circuit layout without a diagram in front of you? I mean, I could talk you round Silverstone, Donington, Spa, Monza, Monaco, etc corner by corner. No way could I do the same with Yas Marina or most (any?) of the other Tilkedromes, no matter whether they might have interesting individual characteristics.

Nail on the head, that's exactly how I feel too. Most classic tracks I could draw a fairly accurate outline from, from memory, yes they've been on my brain longer, but for instance Malaysia which has been around over a decade now, I still couldn't memorise.

EDIT: Maybe "classic" tracks is the wrong word, because I include the likes of Barcelona, Magny-Cours, Estoril, Jerez, new Nurburgring (before they added the stupid first corner complex in) etc. in that list, not exactly classics in the true sense, although the modern tracks I guess are starting to make them look that way.

[V12]

All the SpeedTV guys here is the US can do is gush about how great the circuit looks. All I see is a boring track with a bunch of lights around it.

Who cares how the whole facility looks, its the track that matters!

To be fair the BBC were just as bad, especially Eddie Jordan, whose over the top praise of the track made it sound like he was kissing the collective rear ends of Bernie, Tilke and the Crown Prince or whatever his title is simultaneously. Surely they realise the common fan doesn't give a flying toss about facilities or how pretty it looks?

[schmenke]

Good points.
The Tilke tracks lack character, as all sections seem to blend into the next making them uninspiring. Sure, the venues themselves look spectacular, with stunning architecture and backdrops, but as said, this does not lead to more exciting racing.
I still don't understand why Tilke is the only one designing today's circuits. Also, does he ever consult with any of the drivers?

[N. Jones]

To be fair I do like the Korea track, especially what looks like, to me, the question mark shape layout before the cars get back to the start/finish straight.
I think it has a lot of potential to be a good track in the dry.

I also think that Shanghai is a very good layout as well since there are a few places to overtake (the fact that the race has been run in the wet the last three straight years has helped).

[N4D13]

There's always a lot of BS about the Tilkedromes. The Bahrain layout was criticised a lot, and so has Abu Dhabi, but, for instance, when has Bahrain produced lots of overtaking? The problem with these two tracks isn't the layout - it's that they're in the middle of a desert. There's always a lot of sand on the track, and as soon as a car gets off the line, it'll lose lots of grip, so overtaking becomes extremely difficult. So it's not about the layout - it's the location that is wrong.

[motetarip]

Bahrain is a dull procession if anyone cares to remember. The speed difference has been too great between the cars to see any close racing, about 2 seconds split P1 and P10 in qualifying iirc.

[nigelred5]

Here is the test. Can you remember the circuit layout without a diagram in front of you? I mean, I could talk you round Silverstone, Donington, Spa, Monza, Monaco, etc corner by corner. No way could I do the same with Yas Marina or most (any?) of the other Tilkedromes, no matter whether they might have interesting individual characteristics.


Have you ever seen the pre-race activity they do on the Versus TV coverage with the drivers before Indycar races? They give the drivers a marker and blind fold them then have them draw the track. Some of them get it so well I have to thing they are cheating. My biggest problem with his designs is, with the exception of Turkey they are all essentially perfectly flat. It's called a bull dozer Hermann. You make hills and valleys with them. Give me some heavily banked turns, some off camber turns, etc. I'd love to see F1 cars @ Arragon.

It wasn't the area of Austin I would have preferred to see the track, but there is some decent elevation change IF he chooses to use and not destroy it.

[Mark]

Personally I think Abu Dhabi is one of the best tracks. Valencia and Singapore are the worst.

[Sonic]

I just can't figure out why the racing was so poor. Take Canada, long straight led onto by a tight hairpin = fantastic racing. Abu? Same ingredients = lame racing. Can someone puzzle that out?

Oh and on the circuit sketch thing - I think Ive memorised all the tracks bar Korea

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I've only been able to memorize the new Tilke circuits because of the new F1 game.

[ShiftingGears]

Yas Marina is awful. At least the Austin track layout looks different, besides that strange low speed section.

[Ranger]

If we ignore the last-race buildup, the race itself is boring as bat****.

Glad the finale is moving back to Brazil next year. :up:

[wedge]

Have you ever seen the pre-race activity they do on the Versus TV coverage with the drivers before Indycar races? They give the drivers a marker and blind fold them then have them draw the track. Some of them get it so well I have to thing they are cheating. My biggest problem with his designs is, with the exception of Turkey they are all essentially perfectly flat. It's called a bull dozer Hermann. You make hills and valleys with them. Give me some heavily banked turns, some off camber turns, etc. I'd love to see F1 cars @ Arragon.

It wasn't the area of Austin I would have preferred to see the track, but there is some decent elevation change IF he chooses to use and not destroy it.

Actually some team managers insist on drivers drawing the track and describe each corner. It's used as a tool evaluate feedback from drivers coming up through the ranks.

[Ari]

I like Korea!

Don't like Abu Dhabi, at all.

It's hard to compare the new Tilkedomes to tracks like Silverstone and Monaco as we've had decades to learn and watch them.

[jens]

It's true that Tilke tracks are not easy to memorize, but I don't agree that they are not a challenge for a driver or that they don't offer overtaking opportunities. Maybe we could interpret it even in this way that if they are harder to memorize, means that they are a bigger challenge! Sorry, but I don't see, how the much-hailed classic circuits have more overtaking spots and you could easily bash them for boring racing too. What was specifically exciting at Suzuka this year for instance? Or Monza? But did anyone bash the track layout after a relatively uneventful race? Despite Kobayashi pulling some nice moves at the hairpin, I have to say that Suzuka especially isn't well-suited for overtaking in modern F1. But who bashes the circuit for that?

The athmosphere is a factor though and it often separates "Tilkedromes" from the classics. But IMO the main reason for this are the surroundings as most Tilke F1-tracks are located in countries with little motorsport tradition. The main criticism I would have for Tilke, is that he tends to have some slow corner sequences on many circuits, which don't add anything and are quite frankly a bit boring to go through. But the fast corner sequences are often awesome, which even not all classical tracks can't match. For instance I don't think Monza has as interesting and challenging corners as Sepang and Istanbul have. Sepang is pure gold IMO - the whole circuit is a real challenge to drive in a game, no inferior to the top-notch highly-rated and very demanding Spa or Suzuka. :)