Well done Mark [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

Daniel

14th November 2010, 16:18

Robinho

14th November 2010, 16:22

TMorel

14th November 2010, 16:26

Was cheering for Mark but it wasn't to be :(

His reply when he was asked to confirm he'll be at RBR next season wasn't very convincing, I hope he is and I hope he ups his game, especially mentally, as I think Seb will be taking his up a notch now.

Daniel

14th November 2010, 16:26

he has exceeded most people's expectations this year, but i fear that will likely be his only shot of a title, which he ultimately failed to take and i also wonder if he'll be back next year, driving for a team who would rather the other guy won, against the other guy who is now not only a little bit quicker, but is getting better and now has the confidence of a title behind him. I don't think Mark will want to be there and there could be a little scramble to get someone in the seat

I honestly don't think RBR really favoured Vettel that much tbh. Sure they might have thrown him under the bus today but at that stage he wasn't going to win. As simple as that sadly. I'm sure if the shoe had been on the other foot Seb would have jumped under the bus for Mark :)

I think too much was made out of the silly wing. Mark won that race anyway.....

Fischer

14th November 2010, 16:32

He was lucky to drive an Adrian Newey car, but he can't match Vettel, Alonso or Hamilton.

wedge

14th November 2010, 16:35

Great job all round but he bottled it under pressure this weekend. Vettel was quick in quali onwards.

I think too much was made out of the silly wing. Mark won that race anyway.....

People forget/don't realise Horner asked Newey who should have that wing and said Vettel.

steveaki13

14th November 2010, 16:44

He done a great job all season except for the last few races when he finally appeared to crack.

Still well done Mark!

christophulus

14th November 2010, 16:46

He's improved steadily all year, one to watch next year if Red Bull produce another great car.

UltimateDanGTR

14th November 2010, 16:54

Mark Webber has been brilliant all year, with the odd exception obviously. It's a shame he wasn't up to his normal game this weekend, I would have loved to see him be world champ, but he's had a great season and should be proud.

jens

14th November 2010, 17:01

All season long Webber was at least close to the sharp end of the championship and always there were doubts about his ability to keep it up. In the end he stayed close until the end (only 14 pts deficit to WDC), but wasn't consistent enough to decisively turn it in his favour. Perhaps feeling unfavoured in the team contributed to his inconsistency, but another matter is that how much could he have mentally dealt with the situation better. In any case Mark took some interesting strategical gambles this season and some of them paid off spectacularly (Hungary, Singapore). Abu Dhabi was one of those gambles, but this paid off in another way - not beneficial to himself personally, but for the team generally.

Dave B

14th November 2010, 17:06

Though I wanted Vettel to win, I have to say Mark did a fantastic job and if not for a few silly incidents could have been WDC.

Crashing into Kovalainen
Slagging off the team
Coming together with Seb (I still think Webber played his part in this)

But enough of the negatives it was a really good season for Mark and hopefully it's another good one next year. I hope RBR have a good car in the pipes for next year.....

I agree that he did do a fantastic job, but I don't think you can bring ifs and buts into the equation.

All the leading drivers made mistakes this year. You could argue that if Lewis hadn't crashed in Monza or Singapore, or if Alonso hadn't jumped the start in China, the championship might have looked completely different.

Don't get me wrong, though, by and large Mark's had a great year and driven superbly.

maximilian

14th November 2010, 17:15

A good season for him, but ultimately a very disappointing drop off in form during the finishing races made him look pretty ordinary. As much as I wanted him to win, I have to concede that in the end he wouldn't have been the BEST of the year if he somehow managed to scrape out the title Jenson-Button-style. Good luck for next year, Mark!

Cooper_S

14th November 2010, 17:16

Well to paraphase mark himself He's not bad for a number two...

Daniel

14th November 2010, 17:18

I agree that he did do a fantastic job, but I don't think you can bring ifs and buts into the equation.

All the leading drivers made mistakes this year. You could argue that if Lewis hadn't crashed in Monza or Singapore, or if Alonso hadn't jumped the start in China, the championship might have looked completely different.

Don't get me wrong, though, by and large Mark's had a great year and driven superbly.
I think ifs and buts should always come into the equation, except when people are saying who is actually WDC.

To me there are only two drivers who deserved the championship and they were Vettel and Webber.

racepode1

14th November 2010, 17:23

¿Why he was 44 seconds behind hes teamate? i don´t see the race ¿What was wrong?

Daniel

14th November 2010, 17:35

¿Why he was 44 seconds behind hes teamate? i don´t see the race ¿What was wrong?
He got held up by Alonso.

truefan72

14th November 2010, 23:01

Yep.
I was hoping that Mark webber would have won the championship today. but it was not meant to be. I do think that while the Korea incident was a major blow. Considering that he had Brazil and today's race to earn the WDC, its hard to argue that those two performances were good. I wonder where that go for broke "I'm gonna show them" attitude was that saw him pout some stellar performances this year, like at Silverstone. It was the last race of the year and he needed to drive that car to its limit and beyond, but he was too timid and nervous. Even coming in early to change his tires when he should have stayed out and forced alonso to make the move. And that fact that he had an obvious faster car than the renault and arguably the Ferrari but was unable to get past either or even come withing a half second of Alonso was frustrating to say the least. I kept waiting for him to finally make his attack on Alonso and it never happened.

A very solid year, but ultimately lacked in pace when it mattered.

oddly enough I do believe that this result means he will be back at RBR.

maxter

15th November 2010, 00:35

He got held up by Alonso.
Held up? He wasn't even close enough to make a move. If he was he would have easily passed during one of Alonsos two billion visits to the run-off areas, am I wrong?

I was personally cheering for Webber for this one and it's a shame it didn't work out in the end. Great effort anyhow.
Sadly I doubt he will have another serious crack at the championship, but I'm looking forward to him proving me wrong next year.

ShiftingGears

15th November 2010, 09:02

Held up? He wasn't even close enough to make a move. If he was he would have easily passed during one of Alonsos two billion visits to the run-off areas, am I wrong?

I was personally cheering for Webber for this one and it's a shame it didn't work out in the end. Great effort anyhow.
Sadly I doubt he will have another serious crack at the championship, but I'm looking forward to him proving me wrong next year.

The RBR has always been quite bad trailing other cars, plus their engine isn't the fastest. I'm a bit annoyed that Abu Dhabi has had so much money thrown at it to guarantee a place in the calendar for many years, awful circuit.

Mark had some brilliant victories this year and unfortunately for him pole was generally decided in Vettel's favour by about a tenth. Unbelievable how close the pair are in terms of pace.

He's got to be more consistent next year and be in that winning mindset - Vettel just had a fantastic mindset for the last few races. Even after his engine exploded in Korea he was so collected, as if he had no pressure on him at all.

He just has to believe in himself and not defeat himself mentally and there should be no reason why he can't be in contention for WDC with Vettel next year, if they have the car.

ArrowsFA1

15th November 2010, 09:46

There were, I think, few who would have predicted that Mark would have matched Vettel for most of this year. The fact that he did says a great deal about the man and his ability.

I hope he can come back stronger in 2011 and have a second shot at the WDC, but I do wonder whether this was his one and only chance.

Retro Formula 1

15th November 2010, 10:20

His one and only chance is gone I'm afraid.

Will he be happy to be a number 2? Would you?

I think he may leave.

RJL25

15th November 2010, 10:21

Mark and Vettel are in completely different career positions.

Vettel is at the base of his mountain and will only get better.

Webber on the other hand is very near the summit of his personal mountain, and at some point age will begin to catch up with him.

Personally I think this may have already begun to happen. Webber for most of his early career was actually a bit like Vettel, only he was driving rubbish equipment unlike Seb, but Webber was always stunning in his qualifying ability, always making his team mates look a bit crap when it came to the qualifying performances, but his race performances had always left a lot to be desired. This is a lot like Vettel, Seb has been awesome, just AWESOME in his qualifying abilities both this year and last, but particularly last year and also this year to some extent his races had been a bit error prone, just like Mark's early career.

Now things have changed, Webber now is much better racer, sure he made two mistakes this year, and paid a heavy price for both, but generally I think he has been the better racer of the two Red Bull drivers this year, this is clear I think given that Seb massively out qualified Mark, but the race results where frequently the other way around. This was especially the case last year. But now Mark I think has lost that outright qualifying pace, he just can't consistantly live with Seb when it comes to qualifying, earlier in his career this just wouldn't happen! Mark was always quicker then his team mates in qualifying...

So things have come full circle, Mark can't beat Seb on pure speed, but he has shown he can still beat him by being the smarter and better racer.

I believe he can still do this next year and still have another good crack at the title, but he is running out of time, I think he still has next year, but 2012? 2013? At some point his body, his reflexes, his concentration, and his dodgy leg is going to prevent him from being able to live with Seb.

So its a battle against time, Webber needs to beat Seb before its too late, and 2011 could very well be his last shot

Robinho

15th November 2010, 12:12

I honestly don't think RBR really favoured Vettel that much tbh. Sure they might have thrown him under the bus today but at that stage he wasn't going to win. As simple as that sadly. I'm sure if the shoe had been on the other foot Seb would have jumped under the bus for Mark :)

I think too much was made out of the silly wing. Mark won that race anyway.....

i don't think that they have particularly favoured Vettel either, but they made damn sure they didn't favour Mark as they could reasonably have done in Japan, Brazil. and as DC has pointed out correctly a few times, there is a big difference between being given equal machinery and opportunities and feeling as "loved" by the team. it is a fact that Vettel is Red Bull's favoured son, not that they don't like and respect Mark, but that there is a definite edge to their appreciation of Vettel IMO. its like Mark is adopted!

i agree if positions had been dofferent Vettel would have helped Mark to win. I don't think that will be enough for Mark, and even if he does stay i can't see him being as close to Seb as he has been this year, if his heart is not in it

BDunnell

15th November 2010, 13:52

I honestly don't think RBR really favoured Vettel that much tbh.

Oh, I think that Vettel is massively favoured within Red Bull, if not the whole of the RBR team or in terms of car spec. After all, one driver is a 30-something Australian and the other is a 20-something German (and thus German-speaking, an advantage in terms of communication with certain factions within Red Bull) who is the company's motor racing protege.

Chris R

15th November 2010, 14:17

Yes, I think it was crystal clear that the team (especially the principals) favored Vettel. All this talk about Red Bull being sporting etc. - BS on that - they just did their dirty work internally and behind the scenes.... They never seemed to rally behind Webber when he was the clear favorite and I find it a bit curious that in the last race that Webber was so much slower than Vettel (more so than the rest of the year). Perhaps there is nothing to it and there is certainly no denying Vettel is a great driver who had a great year. However, I cannot help but think the German team favored the German driver in countless small ways behind the scenes if not overtly in the more traditional "team orders" sort of way (and I am not sure that is more sportsmanlike than overtly saying "pull over" and may even be more insidiously unfair to the driver on the short end of the stick.)....

Anyway, congrats to Red Bull and Vettel on a great season. Newey turned out an awesome car, the team did great work, both drivers performed well. All in all a great season and despite my feeling about the way the team operates - more power to them - they won fair and square.....

ArrowsFA1

15th November 2010, 14:18

Had Mark Webber been crowned WDC yesterday I doubt we would have seen much, if anything, of Helmut Marko. As it was he was up there on the podium with Vettel. Why? Because Sebastian Vettel and this title is the end product of many years investment by Mateschitz managed by Marko

While the team may not favour a particular driver, the energy drink company that own them certainly do. They've got a return on their investment, they've shown their way works, and they've got some great publicity. A Mark Webber title would not have had quite the same effect.

It's funny, I remember a story from back when MW joined Red Bull in which, it was reported, he'd been asked to alter his helmet design to more fully relflect the corporate look. I don't know how true this was, or to what extent Mark complied (if he had to) but somehow it illustrated the Red Bull way; a way that has never fully fitted Mark Webber.

Cooper_S

15th November 2010, 15:22

I cannot help but think the German team favored the German .....

German Team?

Cooper_S

15th November 2010, 15:22

I cannot help but think the German team favored the German .....

German Team?

Chris R

15th November 2010, 15:47

German Team?

I know the team is not based in Germany... Still my bad though, I was thinking Red Bull was German, didn't realize it was Austrian.... perhaps the nationalistic side of my argument is a bit off the mark.....

BDunnell

15th November 2010, 15:54

I know the team is not based in Germany... Still my bad though, I was thinking Red Bull was German, didn't realize it was Austrian.... perhaps the nationalistic side of my argument is a bit off the mark.....

The notion of German-speaking and English-speaking factions within the team perhaps isn't.

Cooper_S

15th November 2010, 18:32

The notion of German-speaking and English-speaking factions within the team perhaps isn't.

Yet both 'factions' won... or am I missing something

Garry Walker

15th November 2010, 22:29

Oh, I think that Vettel is massively favoured within Red Bull, if not the whole of the RBR team or in terms of car spec. After all, one driver is a 30-something Australian and the other is a 20-something German (and thus German-speaking, an advantage in terms of communication with certain factions within Red Bull) who is the company's motor racing protege.

Absolutely.
Vettel was clearly favoured within the team. Having that jerk Marko on the podium was dissapointing to see

Ranger

16th November 2010, 00:11

It's funny, I remember a story from back when MW joined Red Bull in which, it was reported, he'd been asked to alter his helmet design to more fully relflect the corporate look. I don't know how true this was, or to what extent Mark complied (if he had to) but somehow it illustrated the Red Bull way; a way that has never fully fitted Mark Webber.

The top of his lid changed from yellow/green to the Red Bull yellow at the behest of the team. But it looks better that way IMO.

You've done good Mark. Stick it to 'em next year! :D

Mark

16th November 2010, 09:33

You've done good Mark. Stick it to 'em next year! :D

That's going to be even more difficult, when your team-mate is the reigning world champion.

Mia 01

16th November 2010, 10:12

Mark can´t depend on his own skills only next year, he needs luck, lots of it.

Seb is the fastest driver in F1, for now.

RJL25

16th November 2010, 10:41

lets not forget the new tyres for next year though.

Tyres have the potential to dramatically effect the way in which a formula one car needs to be driven.

It wouldn't be the first time and won't be the last time that a new tyre has come along and benefited one driver more then another.

Clutching at straws maybe, but it would be a bold man I think to say difinitively that Seb will still be the quicker driver next year with the new tyres looming on the horizon.

555-04Q2

16th November 2010, 11:25

Seb is the fastest driver in F1, for now.

:erm: No. He had the fastest car this season, he was not the fastest driver.

52Paddy

16th November 2010, 12:21

I was gunning for Webber to take the title but, even before the lights went out in Abu Dhabi, I knew he would have a task on his hands. However, I thought Alonso would take the spoils, not Vettel.

Regardless, there is no doubting that Mark has shown an ability behind the wheel that we've not seen in previous years. Saddening is that, seemingly, this rise in ability came so many years down the road in his F1 career, and looks to be approaching the far side of the crest fairly rapidly.

2011? With Vettel the reigning world champion, and a young talent who will only get better, it's going to be a tall order for Webber to beat him next year. Add to this the arguable preference the team have for Vettel [I stand by this belief myself] and it becomes an almost impossible task. If Webber wants to go for the championship again next year, many variables need to work. Not least: his comfort with the new tyres, the car itself and his relationship with the team and his team-mate. Over the off-season, Webber will need to work on his psyche in order to approach next season in a positive light. When questioned as to whether he would be fighting for the title next year by Lee McKenzie [I think], he replied "...yeah...", accompanied by a waft of nods and a voice of sheer disbelief in himself. If he can come in to 2011 with a fresh mentality, then I wouldn't rule him out of being in contention of next year's championship battle. Though I do believe it is his last chance realistically.

All that said, hats off to Webber for putting it up to Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel and staying well within reach of the title all year long. It's been an impressive, yet bitter-sweet, year for Webber but one that he should learn from. Let's see how he takes what he does from 2010 and applies it in 2011.

jens

16th November 2010, 18:03

Many think that 2010 was perhaps Webber's last chance, but then again you never know... Before this season it was also thought that Vettel will comfortably beat Webber, but it didn't happen. Then again 2010 was quite an unusual season in Vettel-Webber battle as it has to be acknowledged that despite winning the WDC Vettel had quite a terrible season by his (at least expected) standards. Car failures from the lead and some daft mistakes. One could expect Vettel to have smoother seasons in the future, which would make Webber's task of matching him in terms of points accumulation ever more difficult. One could rightfully ask that if he couldn't beat Vettel even in 2010 despite all the troubles the German faced, when is he going to do it at all?

Big Ben

16th November 2010, 22:20

A pretty good year, especially after thE WAY he started it. I have my doubts about RBR's fairness towards him in the final part of the season and if they would have wanted him to be the 2010 wdc he would have been but they didn´t. I'm sure that must a great feeling and a great hope for a better future in that team.

It's interesting too to see MW gets a congratulations thread after he finished worse then any of his rivals while FA gets slammed in a few dedicated threads and in any other one where is mentioned... the new satan of F1.

Valve Bounce

19th November 2010, 23:00

Its interesting you should say that, did anyone see the Red Bull interview broadcasted with Lauda, Horner, Berger, Vettel, Webber and Newey from Milton Keynes? Webber was magnanimous in defeat and took it like a true professional. The feelings were no doubt raw but Webber is a fine sportsman and the way in which he handled losing the championship reminded me of Felipe Massa in Brazil 2008. Webber certainly proved himself this year. :up: :)

Right on. I don't know where eu is coming from; must have been something he ate. :confused: ..........or drank. :p :