Prodrive Mini WRC

[J.Lindstroem]

The Wrc is hilerious. Even the most pathetic piece of crap like this or "Matt Wilson, britains leading driver" is made to sound so positive. I dont understand this. They must think that the fans are a bunch of idiots who can be told to think just anything.

[dimviii]

I was waiting for a BMW statement, this one is unexpected, to say the least.

they are trying to serve the news with camouflaze,because they have also responsibility at this joke.

[N.O.T]

LoooooooooooooL...

pathetic solution...

[JAM]

Well, in resume, Mini quit the WRC.

[gtimad73]

what going to happen when meeke and sordo are 1,2 say. and the official cars are 7 and 8 would look bad for the works team to be so far behind.

[J.Lindstroem]

I bet Araujo and Nobre are proud now. Works drivers. Guys, great work!!

[J.Lindstroem]

Why am i spending time on this? The Wrc is turning in to the most pathetic piece of "sport" in a long time.

Lets make a demonstration like in russia!

[dimviii]

what going to happen when meeke and sordo are 1,2 say. and the official cars are 7 and 8 would look bad for the works team to be so far behind.

who told you that we are going to see Meeke and Sordo again ?

edit after Sweden at least for Sordo

[N.O.T]

Where in the press release you find the info about the ralliart ?? i only noticed the MINI portugal company....

[AP-Racing]

I don't understand nothin?

Sordo run as privater with full factory Prodrive support? Or not?

[janvanvurpa]

Why am i spending time on this? The Wrc is turning in to the most pathetic piece of "sport" in a long time.

Lets make a demonstration like in russia!

Occupy WRC!!!

[gtimad73]

who told you that we are going to see Meeke and Sordo again ?

edit after Sweden at least for Sordo

Well we may not, but there both still contracted to prodrive. but my point is if prodrive finishes ahead of the so called full works cars.

[J.Lindstroem]

Occupy WRC!!!

Tänt vare här!!!

[Mirek]

Where in the press release you find the info about the ralliart ?? i only noticed the MINI portugal company....

Cars of Araujo and Nobre are run by Ralliart Italy/Motorsport Italia.

They also already started the hunt for new people to the team...

[J.Lindstroem]

Well we may not, but there both still contracted to prodrive. but my point is if prodrive finishes ahead of the so called full works cars.

Prodrive supports the factory team long term´, with Nobre and Araujo. Nobre and Araujo are the new Sordo and Meeke...

[dimviii]

Where in the press release you find the info about the ralliart ?? i only noticed the MINI portugal company....

you are not going to find at press release anything about motorsport italia
Motosport Italia HAVE their customers to run minis at wrc for 2012.So the clowns (at both sides) because they don t have the balls to announce a press release with truth words,they thought that if they ''serve'' Motorsport Italia as a works team they are going to escape the ridicule.

[BDunnell]

Can anyone better-informed than I offer a sensible explanation as to what BMW hopes to achieve by this move? I am struggling, I must say.

[dimviii]

as to what BMW hopes to achieve by this move? .

to don t ridicule themselves,but i doubt they manage.

[janvanvurpa]

The Wrc is hilerious. Even the most pathetic piece of crap like this or "Matt Wilson, britains leading driver" is made to sound so positive. I dont understand this. They must think that the fans are a bunch of idiots who can be told to think just anything.

About the only thing worse I can see is Rally Champignonskit in Amerika where guys who could not win a DM rally i GruppH are called "Rally Super Star Travken Blockstrana" andf "Rally- Gods'... seriously.....Where when I point to results from last year SVenska Rallyt where there were plies of guys in doing better stage times of Amerika's Rally God in the concurrent Swedish Championship event, including 3 guys in Grupp H cars---one in a VW and one in a rwd Volvo faster than the "works" Fiesta WRC car----I get yelled at and the geniuses explain "It was totally different conditions for the guys behind!!!"

dags att återvända till röterna.
Back to the future before its all foutre!


(how is that for a multi-lingual post?')

[MikeD]

Where in the press release you find the info about the ralliart ?? i only noticed the MINI portugal company....

Autosport writes that Motorsport Italia will run the two "factory" cars under the "WRC Team Mini Portugal" entry name. And I think Motorsport Italia is the same as Ralliart Italia.

Prodrive loses status as Mini's factory World Rally team - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97361)

PS: I wonder if they can add the 26 manufacturer points scored in Monaco. The sad part is that Araújo and Nobre probably cannot even score 26 manu-points in the rest of the season :(

I have a feeling this is not the end of this story ... it's just too weird if MINI will settle for such a crap solution!

[Miika]

About Sordo:
Mini decision won't affect Prodrive and Dani Sordo's World Rally Championship programme - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97364)

[dimviii]

About Sordo:
Mini decision won't affect Prodrive and Dani Sordo's World Rally Championship programme - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97364)

lololololololololololololol

they are trying to ridiculed more!!
are they thinking they are talking to monkeys?

[Viking]

If my guess is as good as the next... Prodrive wanted a lot of money for running the wrc team, team Portugal a lot less..
Maybe Prodrive has a longer term deal with BMW on development of the car and they tried to put pressure on BMW?
Only problem for them, at least short term, is that team Portugal have drivers that are to slow...

[noel157]

Can anyone better-informed than I offer a sensible explanation as to what BMW hopes to achieve by this move? I am struggling, I must say.

Maybe not a sensible explanation but here goes.......

Munich threw out the baby with the bath water. They don't want Prodrive representing them in the WRC. They have an undertaking to the FIA to enter 2 cars in the WRC but they sure as hell don't want Sordo or Meeke because they are employees of Prodrive. Easy option is to use Nobre and Araujo as their factory representatives. Sure, they both drive Prodrive built cars but Prodrive will not be directly associated with the 2 entries. Motorsport Italia will be the only preparation company connected to them. This leaves Prodrive to do as they please in an M2 capacity or even in a non-M capacity. Problem is they have no money to run two cars, maybe not even one unless they can still find renta drivers. Maybe Campana will still appear for 3 more events and others.
That leaves Prodrive on the same level as Kronos or other preparation companies. Just sub-contractors.
More importantly, what will happen next season? What are BMW's plans if, as they say, WRC is a good fit for Mini? Build their own team or just let drivers buy an M1 seat?

[bluuford]

The only thing I can understand from BMW press release is the fact that the person who wrote this story is worth of his salary :-)

[bopApocalypse]

Ken Block must be thrilled - he might be able to legitimately beat a 'factory' driver this year...

[Mirek]

Maybe not a sensible explanation but here goes.......

Munich threw out the baby with the bath water. They don't want Prodrive representing them in the WRC. They have an undertaking to the FIA to enter 2 cars in the WRC but they sure as hell don't want Sordo or Meeke because they are employees of Prodrive. Easy option is to use Nobre and Araujo as their factory representatives. Sure, they both drive Prodrive built cars but Prodrive will not be directly associated with the 2 entries. Motorsport Italia will be the only preparation company connected to them. This leaves Prodrive to do as they please in an M2 capacity or even in a non-M capacity. Problem is they have no money to run two cars, maybe not even one unless they can still find renta drivers. Maybe Campana will still appear for 3 more events and others.
That leaves Prodrive on the same level as Kronos or other preparation companies. Just sub-contractors.
More importantly, what will happen next season? What are BMW's plans if, as they say, WRC is a good fit for Mini? Build their own team or just let drivers buy an M1 seat?

If I'm not mistaken these two factors are necessary for future development of the car.

There must be an M1 team.
There must be a BMW signiture on any new homologation.

I understand BMW doesn't want Prodrive involved in either one. So will now Motorsport Italia get also over the development? Or will all the Mini project end silently at the end of the year? After a season of no results hardly someone will see the end of Mini as big news.

Another question. Who owns rights to currently homologated parts? Is it Prodrive or BMW?

[A FONDO]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=357256490960641

anyone of the portugese/brasil members here to translate what is he saying

[J4MIE]

If BMW are reading this:

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[BDunnell]

Autosport writes that Motorsport Italia will run the two "factory" cars under the "WRC Team Mini Portugal" entry name. And I think Motorsport Italia is the same as Ralliart Italia.

Prodrive loses status as Mini's factory World Rally team - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97361)

PS: I wonder if they can add the 26 manufacturer points scored in Monaco. The sad part is that Araújo and Nobre probably cannot even score 26 manu-points in the rest of the season :(

I have a feeling this is not the end of this story ... it's just too weird if MINI will settle for such a crap solution!

It seems like the Aston Martin Nimrod all over again — non-official entry beating official entry. If that happens, and I think it surely will, how on earth could BMW claim to have made the right decision? There would be no positive spin to put on it.

[BDunnell]

Maybe not a sensible explanation but here goes.......

Munich threw out the baby with the bath water. They don't want Prodrive representing them in the WRC. They have an undertaking to the FIA to enter 2 cars in the WRC but they sure as hell don't want Sordo or Meeke because they are employees of Prodrive. Easy option is to use Nobre and Araujo as their factory representatives. Sure, they both drive Prodrive built cars but Prodrive will not be directly associated with the 2 entries. Motorsport Italia will be the only preparation company connected to them. This leaves Prodrive to do as they please in an M2 capacity or even in a non-M capacity. Problem is they have no money to run two cars, maybe not even one unless they can still find renta drivers. Maybe Campana will still appear for 3 more events and others.
That leaves Prodrive on the same level as Kronos or other preparation companies. Just sub-contractors.
More importantly, what will happen next season? What are BMW's plans if, as they say, WRC is a good fit for Mini? Build their own team or just let drivers buy an M1 seat?

All very well and good, but in terms of results there is no way BMW could possibly benefit, rendering the whole 'new-look' works effort entirely pointless. I simply can't get my head around the notion of there being any way BMW's strategy can do any good results-wise.

[mousti]

If I'm not mistaken these two factors are necessary for future development of the car.

There must be an M1 team.
There must be a BMW signiture on any new homologation.

I understand BMW doesn't want Prodrive involved in either one. So will now Motorsport Italia get also over the development? Or will all the Mini project end silently at the end of the year? After a season of no results hardly someone will see the end of Mini as big news.

Another question. Who owns rights to currently homologated parts? Is it Prodrive or BMW?
Indeed it's like that. Prodrive screwed up for finding sponsors and maybe other failures too. Motorsport Italia has the money for doing a full WRC with 2 drivers so FIA is happy with that they can be a M1 team and get new homologations. Prodrive seems to continue te development for this year now homologation seems okay and they can do a own private program.

[EightGear]

I'm betting on Sordo going to Motorsport Italia in 2013.

[306 Cosworth]

Ken Block must be thrilled - he might be able to legitimately beat a 'factory' driver this year...

What a pointless and inane comment.

[RS]

I understand BMW doesn't want Prodrive involved in either one. So will now Motorsport Italia get also over the development? Or will all the Mini project end silently at the end of the year? After a season of no results hardly someone will see the end of Mini as big news.

Another question. Who owns rights to currently homologated parts? Is it Prodrive or BMW?

It's all quite confusing but Autosport.com report this: "Prodrive will retain responsibility for construction and support of Mini John Cooper Works WRC customer cars, while working with the BMW Group on the further development of the car, which made its WRC debut last year. The long-term homologation of the Mini has been underwritten until 2018."

Doesn't say whether they will stay with Prodrive ongoing though.

I don't see this whole situation quite as bad as the rest of you. Of course it is disappointing that BMW won't commit to a full works funded campaign with two good drivers but we all knew this announcement was coming in some way, shape or form. It could have been worse, BMW could have pulled straight away and not agreed to do any more homologations.

In my opinion, it would be good if FIA changed the manufacturer points system to something similar to IRC where the top two cars of any manufacturer score for that brand.

[Barreis]

At least them are here.

[bluuford]

I'm betting on Sordo going to Motorsport Italia in 2013.
Yeah and the team name will be changed to "Mini WRC Iberian Peninsula Team"

[Mirek]

It's all quite confusing but Autosport.com report this: "Prodrive will retain responsibility for construction and support of Mini John Cooper Works WRC customer cars, while working with the BMW Group on the further development of the car, which made its WRC debut last year. The long-term homologation of the Mini has been underwritten until 2018."

Doesn't say whether they will stay with Prodrive ongoing though.

I don't see this whole situation quite as bad as the rest of you. Of course it is disappointing that BMW won't commit to a full works funded campaign with two good drivers but we all knew this announcement was coming in some way, shape or form. It could have been worse, BMW could have pulled straight away and not agreed to do any more homologations.

In my opinion, it would be good if FIA changed the manufacturer points system to something similar to IRC where the top two cars of any manufacturer score for that brand.



AFAIK 7 years is standard period of homologation so a car as it is NOW shall be eligible for FIA events till 2018. No relevant information in this statement...

[N.O.T]

one word comes to mind

ClusterF%%% !!!

cannot bother, too many sick dogs involved in this one....

lets hope the Mini project collapses and takes along those sick tourist dogs araujo and Nombre with it....

As for Sordo...it would be IDEAL choice for VW team in 2013...from every point of view you look at it...he has winning pace on tarmac, and he is respectable on gravel to gather good points for manufacturer title, and Spain is quite a large market....

it is better than bother with ladycup challengers.

[BDunnell]

In my opinion, it would be good if FIA changed the manufacturer points system to something similar to IRC where the top two cars of any manufacturer score for that brand.

I agree. If I remember correctly, this always used to be the case, whether or not a car/team had been 'nominated'.

[noel157]

If I'm not mistaken these two factors are necessary for future development of the car.

There must be an M1 team.
There must be a BMW signiture on any new homologation.

I understand BMW doesn't want Prodrive involved in either one. So will now Motorsport Italia get also over the development? Or will all the Mini project end silently at the end of the year? After a season of no results hardly someone will see the end of Mini as big news.

Another question. Who owns rights to currently homologated parts? Is it Prodrive or BMW?

Yes, without BMW's "co-operation" no further homologation would be possible although the cars could still run in current form for 3 (?) more years.
I would imagine BMW/Motorsport Italia will pay Prodrive for future development work.

Hard to know who owns the rights to the current parts and concepts. BMW?

[BDunnell]

Hard to know who owns the rights to the current parts and concepts. BMW?

And will BMW be happy with Prodrive continuing to use the Mini World Rally Championship Team name?

[RS]

in this one....
As for Sordo...it would be IDEAL choice for VW team in 2013...from every point of view you look at it...he has winning pace on tarmac, and he is respectable on gravel to gather good points for manufacturer title, and Spain is quite a large market....


Agree on that. Latvala is faster but Sordo would probably be a more reliable No.2.

[RS]

I agree. If I remember correctly, this always used to be the case, whether or not a car/team had been 'nominated'.

It can avoid stupid situations with the "manufacturer" points and endless pretend teams being registered for the championship, as well as encouraging manufacturers to support as many fast drivers as possible.

[mousti]

I'm betting on Sordo going to Motorsport Italia in 2013.
If he gets money backing, the money from Motorsport Italia is from the pilots itself..

[dimviii]

I agree. If I remember correctly, this always used to be the case, whether or not a car/team had been 'nominated'.
this open the door to tactics

[EightGear]

If he gets money backing, the money from Motorsport Italia is from the pilots itself..

Maybe BMW will want him to be in their official Mini team. After all, he 's the one who scored all podiums.

[MJW]

Agree on that. Latvala is faster but Sordo would probably be a more reliable No.2.
I dont know how a Sordo / Ogier combination would work at VW, afterall it was Ogier who relegated Sordo from his position as number 2 driver at Citroen. I would suggest that Sordo and MSport Ford would be a good bet.

[BDunnell]

It can avoid stupid situations with the "manufacturer" points and endless pretend teams being registered for the championship, as well as encouraging manufacturers to support as many fast drivers as possible.

True, but the cream always rose to the top.

[dimviii]

It's all quite confusing but Autosport.com report this: "Prodrive will retain responsibility for construction and support of Mini John Cooper Works WRC customer cars, while working with the BMW Group on the further development of the car, which made its WRC debut last year. The long-term homologation of the Mini has been underwritten until 2018.".
not confusing at all.Only Prodrive can build a new car,service a gearbox,rebuild an engine.Motosport Italia service the cars through the rallies.


It's Doesn't say whether they will stay with Prodrive ongoing though.
if they would stay with prodrive,they wouldn t choose Motorsport Italia to represent them at 2012.


I don't see this whole situation quite as bad as the rest of you. Of course it is disappointing that BMW won't commit to a full works funded campaign with two good drivers but we all knew this announcement was coming in some way, shape or form. It could have been worse, BMW could have pulled straight away and not agreed to do any more homologations..
you don t see it as a bad situation? lol
of course bmw have pulled away from the project,that they are going to homologate 2 wishbones or a new bumper that is already ready doesn t change the situation.They try just to don t ridicule at all ,and find a safe method to walk away.

[RS]

if they would stay with prodrive,they wouldn t choose Motorsport Italia to represent them at 2012.


I meant for the development. The only reason they have gone with Motorsport Italia is that they can fund 2 drivers for the whole season surely?

Why wouldn't BMW want to allow future homologations? If someone else if picking up the bills then it is free publicity for them, even if they are not running at the front.

[WRC12]

Phatecic Bmw.

[dimviii]

I meant for the development. The only reason they have gone with Motorsport Italia is that they can fund 2 drivers for the whole season surely?.

yes! prodrive couldn t find the money/sponsorship they promised.


Why wouldn't BMW want to allow future homologations? If someone else if picking up the bills then it is free publicity for them, even if they are not running at the front.
because they don t want to continue at wrc.
to pick up the bills? for what reason? what are they going to gain these who are going to take up the bills? Can they financially take up the bills? Are they have the know-how to continue a wrc project that it is going to compete with ds3/fiesta? it is not so simple as you think.
The main reason is that bmw doesn t like to continue,and they are shy to announce it.

[oyunbozan]

occupy wrc!!!

we should call anonymous to help us!

[Rallyper]

I think most of you guys are completely wrong and just fantasies come out of your replies. How can you interpret the Press release the way you do? Where is it that Prodrive will not be in WRC after Rally Sweden? Where do I see Ralliart Italia?

My way of seeing this is as follows:

- Prodrive will continue in WRC with one car in the drivers championship because that was decided when they didn´t announce a WRC factory team in december 2011.

- Being able to continue development and homologation the best way was to negotiate with FIA and announce a PRIVATE Factory team which FIA could approve as less controversial than letting Prodrive do it.

- BMW clearly support Prodrive in the future. What´s the fuzz about that?

Above is step one in a well thought out way to tacle their future in WRC. Step two, we don´t know anything about, but nothing says that Prodrive should be out.

Though the choose of words from Dr Kay Segler in the end of the statement could mean someone else will do the work for BMW/Mini in 2013. Nothing you guys ever could have any clue about now regarding the formula of the statement.

So let´s be more careful what to say in our comments. You guys only speculate!!!

[Viking]

Prodrive on twitter, "They (Portugal team) are man. entry for homologation only, will not score man points. FIA to decide if Prodrive will continue to do so"

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=357256490960641

anyone of the portugese/brasil members here to translate what is he saying

"Hello, good afternoon, today is a fantastic day for my career. I have the pleasure to communicate that i will make apart of WRC Mini Team Portugal. This structure is a structure that permites me do all events this year in World Championship, 13. I will be the oficial driver of this team. This will do that we work in partnership with Motorsport Italia, team that accompanies me for a while. We will try develop the car for represent the make Mini by the best way. We will work in partnership with Dani Sordo and we try to transmit as much information to the team for we have a year in which the Mini has the best results. This is a dream, arrive a team that permite us do a season complete and defend a mitic make in rally and the Mini believed in my potential and in our work of the last year and my historial in motorsport. This a honour and i will try dignificate this make. I am grateful to Mini, MCA and Galp for all support. Now i will dedicate to work for have the best results. Thank you all."

Sorry for my english...

[EightGear]

I can understand he is happy he can do all rounds this season, but I guess he knows bloody well WHY he is a worksdriver now?

[Andre Oliveira]

In portuguese Autosport says that the manufacter points that Araújo scored in MC are gone. Prodrive mantaines the points. Second driver of Prodrive in Mexico will be Francisco Name.

[Andre Oliveira]

Well, in Portugal he does a magnific job, and are a 2x Pwrc champion. Of course he does not have speed or experience of others, but defenitely is not a "tourist" driver and is a good development driver. A team with Sordo and Araújo could be the ideal.

[WRCS14]

Prodrive have built what most people would agree is a good car.

I think yes Prodrive will be in Sweden and maybe some more of the European events in next 2 or 3 months with the pay drivers like Sandell etc etc. I think by the summer Prodrive may not bother with much more.

I think once the Portugul team start finishing behind Matthew Wilson, Prodrive will not want their name associated with this car.

Remember when Subaru pulled out they only did one rally the following year then moved onto better things.

They could have rallied the Subaru a lot more in 2009 even as a private team with one good driver and pay drivers but there was no point long term.

Manufacturer money is what Prodrive need to rally and by the sounds of this the entire deal has fallen apart.

I think even before today someone in Prodrive has been told to go back to the drawing board once again pick out cars/manufacturers that have rally potential. It would be foolish of them to have staff spend much more time on this project.

Prodrive is a business, they have little loyalty to any manufacturer once the cord has been cut.

[A FONDO]

Sorry for my english...
Dont worry, your english is definitely better than my portugese :beer: thanks it was really helpful


We will try develop the car for represent the make Mini by the best way. We will work in partnership with Dani Sordo and we try to transmit as much information to the team
these words harden my opinion that everything will continue as before, the only change is in paper names which doesnt matter for us - the fans!

[Rallyper]

Prodrive have built what most people would agree is a good car.

I think yes Prodrive will be in Sweden and maybe some more of the European events in next 2 or 3 months with the pay drivers like Sandell etc etc. I think by the summer Prodrive may not bother with much more.

I think once the Portugul team start finishing behind Matthew Wilson, Prodrive will not want their name associated with this car.

Remember when Subaru pulled out they only did one rally the following year then moved onto better things.

They could have rallied the Subaru a lot more in 2009 even as a private team with one good driver and pay drivers but there was no point long term.

Manufacturer money is what Prodrive need to rally and by the sounds of this the entire deal has fallen apart.

I think even before today someone in Prodrive has been told to go back to the drawing board once again pick out cars/manufacturers that have rally potential. It would be foolish of them to have staff spend much more time on this project.

Prodrive is a business, they have little loyalty to any manufacturer once the cord has been cut.

What makes you believe Prodrive will quit? Where do you read that. I think this was the solution to repair the reputation of the brand MINI and Prodrive to continue develop the car.

[Viking]

David Richards bullish over Mini's decision to - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97371)

[Rally Power]

You're puting to much emphasis on Prodrive future role at this WRC Mini deal.

To me it's clear that Prodrive has been put aside from it by BMW.

Autorishation to Prodrive keep costumers programme may have been dictated by legal precautions.

Now it's Italia Motorsport (via WRC Mini Team Portugal) who runs the deal, as the M1 status cleary demonstrates.

Maybe this won´t be a long term partnership, and BMW is using Italia Motorsport as a temporary plan B, in order to prevent FIA sanctions and get time to find a definitive solution.

Good news is that Mini is staying in WRC for a long time!

And Araujo is now a factory driver!!!

Força Armindo, força Mini :D

[Andre Oliveira]

For me is interesting the name Portugal in the team with a Brazilian driver. It would make more sense a Lusa rally team. Or Nobre will be replaced by Bruno Magalhães (without team since Peugeot Sport Portugal close, that could bring to the team Carlos Barros who has a huge experience of the times in Peugeot-Talbot Sport) or Bernardo Sousa (with big €€ support)?

[AndyRAC]

A complete and utter shambles....what a joke!!

I can't see any positives in this news.

[Plan9]

If my guess is as good as the next... Prodrive wanted a lot of money for running the wrc team, team Portugal a lot less..
Maybe Prodrive has a longer term deal with BMW on development of the car and they tried to put pressure on BMW?
Only problem for them, at least short term, is that team Portugal have drivers that are to slow...


I don't understand why they chose Motorsport Italia? I was unaware that they had build anything remotely in the same league as the MINI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am now certain we will probably not ever see Meeke again in a MINI.
BTW why has the JCW's homoligation been extended to 2018? That seems mad as the car will not still be competitive then???

[danon]

The Mini/Prodrive divorce explained (http://www.maxrally.com/features/entry/the_mini_prodrive_divorce_explained/)

[PLuto]

For me is interesting the name Portugal in the team with a Brazilian driver. It would make more sense a Lusa rally team. Or Nobre will be replaced by Bruno Magalhães (without team since Peugeot Sport Portugal close, that could bring to the team Carlos Barros who has a huge experience of the times in Peugeot-Talbot Sport) or Bernardo Sousa (with big €€ support)?

This is absolutely unimportant who is in team. They only need two drivers, which will do (and pay) all events in WRC 2012. It isnt important, if it is Armindo Araujo, Paulo Nobre, Kimi Raikkonen, Daniel Oliveira, Bjorn Waldegaard, Stephane Peterhansel, Luc Alphand or Usain Bolt...

[WRCS14]

Rallyper, I did not read anywhere that they will quit.

This is just my opinion.

From a business point of view, after all this is what Prodrive are, I think they will stop when there is no gain.

Look at Peugeot with Le Mans, they pulled the plug so suddenly I was even surprised. Why did Peugeot pull the plug, Im guessing it was a business decision based on investment versus the financial gain/return didnt add up. Peugeot saw no point to continue, this coming from a French car manufacturer trying to win the worlds biggest endurance race also located in France.

I feel Prodrive will not feel obliged to travel around the world for the rest of the year to push a car that has only half hearted backing at best. Give it a few months and we will see.

[BDunnell]

This is absolutely unimportant who is in team. They only need two drivers, which will do (and pay) all events in WRC 2012.

Meaning BMW has given up on achieving anything with regard to the works effort in 2012, except splitting it from Prodrive? I fail to see how this is in any way sensible.

[PLuto]

Rallyper, I did not read anywhere that they will quit.

This is just my opinion.

From a business point of view, after all this is what Prodrive are, I think they will stop when there is no gain.

Look at Peugeot with Le Mans, they pulled the plug so suddenly I was even surprised. Why did Peugeot pull the plug, Im guessing it was a business decision based on investment versus the financial gain/return didnt add up. Peugeot saw no point to continue, this coming from a French car manufacturer trying to win the worlds biggest endurance race also located in France.

I feel Prodrive will not feel obliged to travel around the world for the rest of the year to push a car that has only half hearted backing at best. Give it a few months and we will see.

Why Peugeot pulled the plug? Because they have seen that they have no chance against Audi, so better for them will be to leave circuits and work on their return to rally...

[PLuto]

Meaning BMW has given up on achieving anything with regard to the works effort in 2012, except splitting it from Prodrive? I fail to see how this is in any way sensible.

BMW and Prodrive made together project Mini in WRC. Both sides were going into this project with some ideas and budgets. Everything depends on agreements between both sides and how much they wanted to be in WRC...

[Luis Pacheco]

For me is interesting the name Portugal in the team with a Brazilian driver. It would make more sense a Lusa rally team. Or Nobre will be replaced by Bruno Magalhães (without team since Peugeot Sport Portugal close, that could bring to the team Carlos Barros who has a huge experience of the times in Peugeot-Talbot Sport) or Bernardo Sousa (with big €€ support)?

What?!?!?

[BDunnell]

Ought we not to point out one thing to one member: that Martin Holmes was right?

[cali]

Ought we not to point out one thing to one member: that Martin Holmes was right?

How was the most common reply from this member? Oh yes ... LOL or loooooooooooooool. But then again, who is Martin Holmes? :D

[Rallyper]

As said. In difference to Peugeot Prodrive (and BMW as a the Partner) has reached far more success than expected. That will for sure gain the brand of MINI. BMW know that. It is business, yes. But business that will pay-off if they just fulfill their goals. And they can´t without going on homologating parts to the car.

So this might be kind of dodgee to some people but it´s a solution which FIA and the partners can accept without further complains from the competitors (other teams).

[Andre Oliveira]

What?!?!?

It is a question. Based in name of team, nothing more.

[banksy87]

My take is that BMW want to be the WRC longterm but why would they right now?? There is no promoter there isnt any god damn TV!
Why pay and loose cashflow to run in a series with no coverage, especially id expect in Germany.

Now am I right in that a full "works" entry must be registered to keep the car homologated? As a result BMW have simply changed the works registered cars to a couple that are fully funded by drivers/sponsors. BMW dont need to pay for anything, drivers, transport, parts. As others have said if Sordo in team Prodrive then beats them, so what the car says MINI and the product BMW want to sell says MINI.

The news reports state that Prodrive will still develop / make and sell the Mini WRC no doubt with some funding from Munich. If they wish to rally their own invention on top of this then they must seek their own funding.

Now come 2013 when the WRC is (hopefully) back on its feet with a stable promoter/TV deal and the economy is on a different trend...BMW can swoop back in, give prodrive the cash and run a full works team to beat off the rival VW Polo....

[PLuto]

The most important question - was/is rallysport priority for BMW? Wasnt it big programme from Prodrive, who came to BMW and told: we have project to build a WRC car, dot you want go with us? You will give us brand and help us with developing the car, all other things and money will be on our side. Now, Prodrive dont have enough money to continue (not found sponsor or speculation from DR that BMW doesnt want to kill good promotion and will give more money), so BMW is trying to find the best solution for them...

[Plan9]

I can only add that this Motorsport Italia crowd will not be the official Mini team beyond this year. I imagine BMW will become a full works entry for 2013 (if they ever make up their minds). There is no way that MI can possibly hope to beat Sordo or any of the people in the prostitute car this year.

I want assurances that Sordo will do all the rounds. I am also keen to know if the Prodrive Mini will contine as Red/White and have the official overall etc or will BMW stoop to those levels of humiliation for Prodrive?

[Sulland]

The most important question - was/is rallysport priority for BMW? Wasnt it big programme from Prodrive, who came to BMW and told: we have project to build a WRC car, dot you want go with us? You will give us brand and help us with developing the car, all other things and money will be on our side. Now, Prodrive dont have enough money to continue (not found sponsor or speculation from DR that BMW doesnt want to kill good promotion and will give more money), so BMW is trying to find the best solution for them...





Sounds like this storyline is not far from the truth. DR could have said this I guess.

But now BMW stand to loose more by letting the project crash, so trying to go in with some cash. The first thing they should do was to send money to Kris Meeke, to have a real two-car team !

[A.F.F.]

This really isn't encouraging other manufacturers to join in :mark: I am very disappointed. But the silverlining is that we don't loose Mini at all.... I guess.

[Miika]

If yesterday´s news was a turn for the better, surely Sordo and Meeke would be driving a full season with a car they would develop and test. But then again where do we need them when we have the amazing duo of Team MINI Portugal.

[GigiGalliNo1]

I say Prodrive should drop MINI development and built and help Proton with the WRC.

[pantealex]

WRC Team MINI Portugal will have?

cars 12 and 14 (ex. Armindo Araujo World Rally Team and Palmeirinha Rally)
or
cars 37 and 52 (ex. MINI WRC Team)

I think in Sweden it´s like it is in entrylist (as above), but for the rest of season?

[JAM]

The most important question - was/is rallysport priority for BMW? Wasnt it big programme from Prodrive, who came to BMW and told: we have project to build a WRC car, dot you want go with us? You will give us brand and help us with developing the car, all other things and money will be on our side. Now, Prodrive dont have enough money to continue (not found sponsor or speculation from DR that BMW doesnt want to kill good promotion and will give more money), so BMW is trying to find the best solution for them...

Not the best solution, but the cheapest solution.

In the meantime they decide if pull out of WRC at the end of the year, or to send the project to anyone else (X-Raid?) and restart everything. Just my toughts.

And i also believe that BMW didn't had the wish to be on WRC. They simply saw an opportunity (gave by Prodrive) and take it. Now things went wrong and they have dificulties in dealing with it and finding a solution.

[rsmith16]

WRC Team MINI Portugal will have?

cars 12 and 14 (ex. Armindo Araujo World Rally Team and Palmeirinha Rally)
or
cars 37 and 52 (ex. MINI WRC Team)

I think in Sweden it´s like it is in entrylist (as above), but for the rest of season?

I think the numbers will remain as they are - since I don't believe the Rally Team Italia cars will be run as "Mini WRC Team" - that name will stay at Prodrive & since Dani has been given that number at the start of the year he will retain it for the whole year and has to be the driver of that car under the rules.

[Rallyper]

And i also believe that BMW didn't had the wish to be on WRC. They simply saw an opportunity (gave by Prodrive) and take it. Now things went wrong and they have dificulties in dealing with it and finding a solution.

You mean it went wrong when PD didn´t get the funding for two driver over the whole year? If BMW decided to support PD in the beginning they must have thought out what could go wrong in the first place. Every big company with brain must have a plan B and also C from the beginning. BMW seems maybe not had that.

If you decide you have to fulfill, because else they loose so much goodwill. And I think they now already had at least if they don´t support the whole project in the future meaning 3-5 year plan.

[JAM]

BMW seems maybe not had that.


Seems that they hadn't in fact, but neither Prodrive had it. Maybe because things are not so easy as you try to put them.

An usual Plan B is pull out. But i imagine what should be the reactions if BMW would have decided to pull out of WRC yesterday, and probably the costs too.

[Mise]

Why Peugeot pulled the plug? Because they have seen that they have no chance against Audi, so better for them will be to leave circuits and work on their return to rally...

better for us fans too

[Rallyper]

Seems that they hadn't in fact, but neither Prodrive had it. Maybe because things are not so easy as you try to put them.

An usual Plan B is pull out. But i imagine what should be the reactions if BMW would have decided to pull out of WRC yesterday, and probably the costs too.

I don´t agree at all. Plan B should be something else than just pull out. That´s to digital behavour not worthy a big company who had invested money. They have to make up their mind and think what´s best in this new situation.

And a matter of fact is that I think BMW just did. We don´t know everything in this story yet.

[bluuford]

Today I did some skiing and I was thinking about this BMW press release during the whole 21 km. So, and 2 km before the end I undrestood what is going on.

FIA wanted Mini to do all 13rounds. Prodrive did not had money to do so and FIA was not happy. You are not allowed to homologate new parts when you are not registered as a full Manufacturer and you are not doing all 13 rounds (less rounds are allowed during the first year only). So, finally, BMW found the solution that AA and PN are both doing the full season. So, they got an agreement form FIA that AA and PN will be registered as one team and therefore they meet the minimal requirement to do all rounds with two cars.

Prodrive does not need to take part in all rounds now and then they can use this saved money (by missing some long haul events) for the development of the car. I assume that they still get some money from BMW for development

Finally, signature must be written by BMW, so the German company has full control on all kind of homologations and maybe they can aquire intellectual rights for those new parts as well. How? Maybe their investments depend on the number of homologated parts and basically they buy the rights of those new parts? So, basically, BMW does not need to invest more money than they wanted and they invest only in development not running the car.

They can continue development and when the promotion situation is cleared then it is much easier to join the seires with full backing and competitive car (when they own all rights etc, then they can easily bring the development inhouse).

So, what Prodrive gains? Their engineers get paid for innovation and they can demonstrate and test those parts on their team. At the same time they can earn some money by building renting the cars to customers.

[bt52b]

Now will Sordo have to park for 20mins so the works team can sore better points?

Shows how farcial the WRC and many of the FIA championship rules are, the manufacturer team #1 won't let team #2 have a better finish.

What happens if Prodrive pick up some sponsorship for the second half of he year, will BMW allow Prodrive to beat the 'works' Mini team?

[dimviii]

You mean it went wrong when PD didn´t get the funding for two driver over the whole year? If BMW decided to support PD in the beginning they must have thought out what could go wrong in the first place. Every big company with brain must have a plan B and also C from the beginning. BMW seems maybe not had that.

If you decide you have to fulfill, because else they loose so much goodwill. And I think they now already had at least if they don´t support the whole project in the future meaning 3-5 year plan.

very well said mate.

[Barreis]

So Araujo and Nobre has money for full season and Prodrive hasn't?! Oh, yeah...

[A.F.F.]

Today I did some skiing and I was thinking about this BMW press release during the whole 21 km. So, and 2 km before the end I undrestood what is going on.

FIA wanted Mini to do all 13rounds. Prodrive did not had money to do so and FIA was not happy. You are not allowed to homologate new parts when you are not registered as a full Manufacturer and you are not doing all 13 rounds (less rounds are allowed during the first year only). So, finally, BMW found the solution that AA and PN are both doing the full season. So, they got an agreement form FIA that AA and PN will be registered as one team and therefore they meet the minimal requirement to do all rounds with two cars.

Prodrive does not need to take part in all rounds now and then they can use this saved money (by missing some long haul events) for the development of the car. I assume that they still get some money from BMW for development

Finally, signature must be written by BMW, so the German company has full control on all kind of homologations and maybe they can aquire intellectual rights for those new parts as well. How? Maybe their investments depend on the number of homologated parts and basically they buy the rights of those new parts? So, basically, BMW does not need to invest more money than they wanted and they invest only in development not running the car.

They can continue development and when the promotion situation is cleared then it is much easier to join the seires with full backing and competitive car (when they own all rights etc, then they can easily bring the development inhouse).

So, what Prodrive gains? Their engineers get paid for innovation and they can demonstrate and test those parts on their team. At the same time they can earn some money by building renting the cars to customers.

You get my vote !!!

[Plan9]

Now will Sordo have to park for 20mins so the works team can sore better points?

Shows how farcial the WRC and many of the FIA championship rules are, the manufacturer team #1 won't let team #2 have a better finish.

What happens if Prodrive pick up some sponsorship for the second half of he year, will BMW allow Prodrive to beat the 'works' Mini team?

Yes hysterical isn't it?

I mean how can you rationalize that a team made up of AA and PN will be a better long term for financial and results than Sordo and Meeke. Absolutely INSANE!

[Andre Oliveira]

So Araujo and Nobre has money for full season and Prodrive hasn't?! Oh, yeah...

No. Araújo has big difficults to have money for the whole season. He lost sponsors this year.

[Barreis]

Richard's hunger for money never stops.

[Rallyper]

Today I did some skiing and I was thinking about this BMW press release during the whole 21 km. So, and 2 km before the end I undrestood what is going on.

FIA wanted Mini to do all 13rounds. Prodrive did not had money to do so and FIA was not happy. You are not allowed to homologate new parts when you are not registered as a full Manufacturer and you are not doing all 13 rounds (less rounds are allowed during the first year only). So, finally, BMW found the solution that AA and PN are both doing the full season. So, they got an agreement form FIA that AA and PN will be registered as one team and therefore they meet the minimal requirement to do all rounds with two cars.

Prodrive does not need to take part in all rounds now and then they can use this saved money (by missing some long haul events) for the development of the car. I assume that they still get some money from BMW for development

Finally, signature must be written by BMW, so the German company has full control on all kind of homologations and maybe they can aquire intellectual rights for those new parts as well. How? Maybe their investments depend on the number of homologated parts and basically they buy the rights of those new parts? So, basically, BMW does not need to invest more money than they wanted and they invest only in development not running the car.

They can continue development and when the promotion situation is cleared then it is much easier to join the seires with full backing and competitive car (when they own all rights etc, then they can easily bring the development inhouse).

So, what Prodrive gains? Their engineers get paid for innovation and they can demonstrate and test those parts on their team. At the same time they can earn some money by building renting the cars to customers.

This is basically what I meant in my replies in this matter. The only ones loosing money is FIA. Everone else is having the upper side. BMW and PD still are cooperating and so will be.

[sollitt]

Yes hysterical isn't it?

I mean how can you rationalize that a team made up of AA and PN will be a better long term for financial and results than Sordo and Meeke. Absolutely INSANE! Unless you were present at the board meetings and have full understanding of the issues and intents you are clearly not qualified to make such a judgement.

In actual fact, this whole situation may be exactly what the WRC needs. Notwithstanding that Prodrive began the Mini WRC programme, and hold the technical expertise & IP, we now have a situation where a 'private' team will not only be competing with the factory team on the same level, with the same machinery but, in all likelihood, will lead the way.
If it can endure it may well be a model picked up by other manufacturers.

[TyPat107]

Unless you were present at the board meetings and have full understanding of the issues and intents you are clearly not qualified to make such a judgement.

In actual fact, this whole situation may be exactly what the WRC needs. Notwithstanding that Prodrive began the Mini WRC programme, and hold the technical expertise & IP, we now have a situation where a 'private' team will not only be competing with the factory team on the same level, with the same machinery but, in all likelihood, will lead the way.
If it can endure it may well be a model picked up by other manufacturers.

I was driving down from skiing thinking this same thing. It's as if m-sport team got the newest parts and the ford factory were "customer" cars. Kinda does suck for Prodrive though, I wonder how much they spent on promotion and advertising that could have been used to remain in the championship and out of this mess.

[FAlonso]

I haven´t participated in the forum for a while but I think there are one or two things worth mentioning.

As frustrating as this Mini thing is, I don´t find it fair or accurate to place Armindo in the same league as Paulo Nobre. Paulo is a great guy and a self-confessed gentleman driver.

Armindo is a professional rally driver who has struggled his entire career to be given a chance of proving his worth at the highest level after winning multiple national championships and 2 PWRC titles. The problem is (was) that he may have arrived too late on the scene when he began his PWRC campaign in 07 (28 years old if my memory serves me right).

I believe that with proper resources, proper testing he is capable of at least a points finnish on every rally and maybe one or two surprises mainly on tarmac events. Surely not enough to be considered a deserving full-blown official driver but it's not his fault that this thing dropped on his lap.

So to my mind there is a clear difference here between him and Paulo. And if on one hand i'm sadenned by this string of events, on the other i'm happy for Armindo to be given the chance for a year at least.

And contrary to popular belief, A.A. didn´t have the money to do the whole season. Maybe the European rounds if he was lucky. Until these news he was going on a rally by rally basis.

Having said that of course that the situation in itself is idiotic. As are many others nowadays in the WRC.

I think since the ideal solution of Sordo/Meeke was not possible, maybe Sordo(clear nº1)/Armindo could be at least more interesting and I´m sure manufacturer points for M1 team would be achievable on a regular basis.

For 2013 Mini must get their act together.

[Sulland]

So Mr Nobre is waiting for the R-GT class to do gentlemans battle in ?!

[N.O.T]

Ought we not to point out one thing to one member: that Martin Holmes was right?

No he wasn't

as usual he gave us his biased point of view not the facts...

how old is he anyway ?? 97 ??

[cali]

No he wasn't

as usual he gave us his biased point of view not the facts...

how old is he anyway ?? 97 ??

Oh dear, parallel universe for you?

[N.O.T]

why he is more than 97 ??

[cali]

why he is more than 97 ??
maybe in your star trek years :D

[Doon]

This whole issue is farcical. I'm a WRC fan, and I have no idea what is going on. So what about casual fans? In fact does anyone have a clue about what is really going on? The article with the Mini boss saying how great it was to have 3 podiums in 7 starts, what planet is he on? The driver who scored these results has now been demoted to a 'works-supported private' drive. Why do mini think they are better off with an average Joe, and a snail driving the cars that the world we see as the 'works' cars.

Actually, looking at it from a different point of view the world wont see them making fools of themselves because the WRC wont even be on TV for all the rounds as I can see it at the moment. When I started watching Rallying I never thought it would take such a dive in so many ways.

[Rallyper]

This whole issue is farcical. I'm a WRC fan, and I have no idea what is going on. So what about casual fans? In fact does anyone have a clue about what is really going on? The article with the Mini boss saying how great it was to have 3 podiums in 7 starts, what planet is he on? The driver who scored these results has now been demoted to a 'works-supported private' drive. Why do mini think they are better off with an average Joe, and a snail driving the cars that the world we see as the 'works' cars.

Actually, looking at it from a different point of view the world wont see them making fools of themselves because the WRC wont even be on TV for all the rounds as I can see it at the moment. When I started watching Rallying I never thought it would take such a dive in so many ways.

It´s politics. And I think we shall not put big issue of who is private or factory driver at this point.

Main thing is that Mini and BMW is still on the track. And PD as their developer. Let´s then see what happens in a few months, and mainly in 2013.

[Andre Oliveira]

Very bad news: Prodrive, Sordo and Name do not compete in Mexico (http://translate.google.pt/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=pt-PT&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fautosport.aeiou.pt%2Fgen.pl%3Fp%3Ds tories%26op%3Dview%26fokey%3Das.stories%2F103216)

Strange that Name received the car to testing and now do not compete in Rally of Mexico.
http://translate.google.pt/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=pt-PT&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fautosport.aeiou.pt%2Fgen.pl%3Fp%3Ds tories%26op%3Dview%26fokey%3Das.stories%2F103216

[Plan9]

Unless you were present at the board meetings and have full understanding of the issues and intents you are clearly not qualified to make such a judgement.

In actual fact, this whole situation may be exactly what the WRC needs. Notwithstanding that Prodrive began the Mini WRC programme, and hold the technical expertise & IP, we now have a situation where a 'private' team will not only be competing with the factory team on the same level, with the same machinery but, in all likelihood, will lead the way.
If it can endure it may well be a model picked up by other manufacturers.

Interesting point. But I don't think that having Motorsport Italia involved as the works team is a bad idea. Even considering the little things like dealing with media and press. Will BMW now have to push out releases praising Nobre and Arujo while not mentioning that the Red and White cars are actually doing much better.

I don't think there is any logic in having an outside team use the same technology as a works outfit and win. It caused issues for Red Bull in F1 and I don't think BMW will want to repeat that. Having a lot of customers in this ear seems to be the thing to do but it is also important to keep these customers at arms length so they don't humiliate the factory boys. Sad but true. With Motorsport Italia it seems that BMW has just inverted this convention and it will remain to be seen if this was a good idea or not. BUT I am glad that there has been a temporary solution to this problem. I think if MINI continues in the WRC BMW will want to take as much of the program in-house as possible.

[WRCS14]

This thing with Prodrive not going to Mexico is pretty much what I wrote yesterday. This is the start of the wind down. I can see them doing another few European rounds convenient to the UK but if they are still going by Rally Deutschland I will be surprised.

As a business unless they are severely contractually obligated there is little point in continuing. Prodrive needs manufacturer backing and finance in addition to sponsorship to make a full programme viable.

They will not land another car maker in the WRC if there name is constantly attached to Mini.

[Viking]

Sordo "I know nothing"

Google Oversetter (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vf.se%2Fsport%2Fbilsport%2Fsord o-om-minikaoset-kanske-far-aka-till-kanarieoarna)

[Barreis]

But they need to sell the cars and Araujo and Nobre can't bring top results so they must compete with top driver. And that's Sordo.

[Rally Power]

They will not land another car maker in the WRC if there name is constantly attached to Mini.

It would be worse if they enter a legal battle with BMW...

Germans are very pragmatic, surely they've remember Subaru last years, with little joy and big Prodrive factures, so they get this "divorce settlement" in order to let Prodrive go in a pacific and not to expensive way.

Prodrive got some jewels (costumers programme) Mini kept the house (WRC project) and until parent ship it's matured kids have a new tutor (italia motorsport).

[sollitt]

I don't think there is any logic in having an outside team use the same technology as a works outfit and win. ................. but it is also important to keep these customers at arms length so they don't humiliate the factory boys.
This is nonsense and, frankly, is one of the reasons the WRC is in the parlous state it is today.
There is every logic to have the entire contingent of any brand performing well and, regardless of which team wins the silverware, sharing the spoils of victory.
This is the way it always used to be and it only built strength in the sport.
Take a look at the Aussie V8's. In all the years Ambrose was dominant, Seton headed the factory team. What did he win? Nothing. But every Monday morning Ford still ran their advertising boasting about winning on Sunday. Factory or private team - didn't matter one iota to them.
Where there is no logic is the dumbing down of the back up teams who actually make up the greater proportion of those representing your brand.

[Plan9]

This thing with Prodrive not going to Mexico is pretty much what I wrote yesterday. This is the start of the wind down. I can see them doing another few European rounds convenient to the UK but if they are still going by Rally Deutschland I will be surprised.

As a business unless they are severely contractually obligated there is little point in continuing. Prodrive needs manufacturer backing and finance in addition to sponsorship to make a full programme viable.

They will not land another car maker in the WRC if there name is constantly attached to Mini.

Isn't BMW/Prodrive obliged to enter at least 10 events this year? I thought that was part of the agreement with the FIA. Next year they have to do all the rounds. Or has this situation been even more complicated by the recent controversy?

[TyPat107]

Isn't BMW/Prodrive obliged to enter at least 10 events this year? I thought that was part of the agreement with the FIA. Next year they have to do all the rounds. Or has this situation been even more complicated by the recent controversy?

Is that still the case or did it only matter when Prodrive was the manufacturer entry?

[RS]

This might be more bull****ting from DR but here is what he told Autosport magazine today:

- "I wholeheartedly believe this is a better deal for us. Finally we have resolution to the long term security of Mini in the WRC"

- "Our goal is to have Kris back in the car as soon as we can. We will now sit down and go through our programme and in conjunction with BMW decide on which events we will go to with Dani and Kris."

Autosport speculate that they probably will only do key market events (Portugal, Germany, France, Spain, GB)

[MikeD]

Is that still the case or did it only matter when Prodrive was the manufacturer entry?


It's no longer the case since neither the Motorsport Italia/WRC Team MINI Portugal nor the Prodrive/MINI WRC Team have opted to score Manufacturer points for the rest of the season.

The 26 manufacturer points that MINI scored in Monte Carlo will stand, whereas the 4 manufacturer points scored by Armindo Araújo WRT and the 2 points scored by Palmeirinha Rally have been deleted.

PS: This is the official FIA statement today posted on WRC.com

[wildboar]

Why did WRC Team MINI Portugal opt to NOT score manufacturer's points? They might just be worried that they would score not very many points, which would look bad.

[grugsticles]

The way the news article reads to me is that Araujo and Nobre are basically funding their own cars, and significant portions of Sordo's and perhaps the continued development of the Mini WRC.
Ouch!

[Co-driven]

As far as I know, Nobre has a deal with Motorsport Italia and nothing changed after these changes in the teams names/status. He's funding his own car, as it was agreed at the beginning of the year.

[mousti]

The own funding of both of them got BMW agree with Fia, it's only input of Araujo and Nobro what did it. Because they were already sure of a full program.

[Plan9]

It's no longer the case since neither the Motorsport Italia/WRC Team MINI Portugal nor the Prodrive/MINI WRC Team have opted to score Manufacturer points for the rest of the season.

The 26 manufacturer points that MINI scored in Monte Carlo will stand, whereas the 4 manufacturer points scored by Armindo Araújo WRT and the 2 points scored by Palmeirinha Rally have been deleted.

PS: This is the official FIA statement today posted on WRC.com

That is such a waste for the red mini (no, I can't call it the independent team yet).

- "Our goal is to have Kris back in the car as soon as we can. We will now sit down and go through our programme and in conjunction with BMW decide on which events we will go to with Dani and Kris."

Autosport speculate that they probably will only do key market events (Portugal, Germany, France, Spain, GB)

Bull**** or not I will be glad to see Kris back in the car. Can you post the article on here? I think it may be a bit of a waste. God know what rounds they will do in 2013.

[WRCS14]

Hmmm this situation gets worse day by day.

Now we will see the Red minis at best only where the rally car can be towed on a trailer or what ever from Banbury to the event basically.

People now saying neither team can take manufacturer points? This is even worse than I orginally thought.

[A FONDO]

So the only gain for mini is they can legally develop and homologise the car. which makes me suggest bmw really has long-term plans in WRC

[Barreis]

At least we have mini. Beside that Prodrive sucks.

[WRC12]

It's bad for rallying and motorsport, but I think Bmw-Mini is not interested in the World Rallye Championship.

I hope Sordo will secure a good seat for 2013. He is the best in the return of Mini since last year with diference with three podiums in seven rallyes.

[Rallyper]

Guys - why are you twisting everything what´s been said officially as "things are going worse and worse...." "it´s bull****ing#.

Can´t you see that what they are saying is what they mean and in that case as said maybe it´s a good solution meaning PD and Mini will be there in WRC in the future. Without it maybe they shouldn´t have been...?

[Plan9]

+1 I agree.

I don't think victimising MINI & Prodrive will do anything. They are both still credible brands. I feel very strongly that any downgrade for Prodrive is a set-back for its whole WRC program.

[Mirek]

Guys - why are you twisting everything what´s been said officially as "things are going worse and worse...." "it´s bull****ing#.

Can´t you see that what they are saying is what they mean and in that case as said maybe it´s a good solution meaning PD and Mini will be there in WRC in the future. Without it maybe they shouldn´t have been...?

Optimism is a strange illness :)

[Rallyper]

Optimism is a strange illness :)

Illness? It´s just words from FIA. And politics. So what your comment is all about is the big bosses solutions on a dinner after 2200 hours thing.

Everything will be the same for PD and MIni. Just less expensives and more testing and developing because of lower costs.

[Plan9]

And probably the red cars will not be at all the events it now seems...

[JAM]

The own funding of both of them got BMW agree with Fia, it's only input of Araujo and Nobro what did it. Because they were already sure of a full program.

Armindo had sure some rallyes, not the full season.

[Plan9]

Anyone looked at the Prodrive cars? They have lost their Mini Financial Services branding, the Mini Motorsport website gives preferential coverage to the MI cars and the press releases are now just for Prodrive and not fancy Mini branding.

[JAM]

Anyone looked at the Prodrive cars? They have lost their Mini Financial Services branding, the Mini Motorsport website gives preferential coverage to the MI cars and the press releases are now just for Prodrive and not fancy Mini branding.

Thata was announced during the week. Mini would support MI to have champioship points and not Prodrive. If Prodrive wants to do the rallies, that would be without Mini support.

[Red bull]

Thata was announced during the week. Mini would support MI to have champioship points and not Prodrive. If Prodrive wants to do the rallies, that would be without Mini support.

then it will be better to drive a private Prodrive Mini which i think will be well prepared than the MI mini which will be a dummy of itself with tourist drivers.

[JAM]

then it will be better to drive a private Prodrive Mini which i think will be well prepared than the MI mini which will be a dummy of itself with tourist drivers.

You're right. Do you think that prodrive would put good material on MI hands? Of course not. MI wants to rent cars to drivers, and Prodrive too...

Prodrive gave a good car to Armindo on the Rally of Portugal 2011, but that was made by mistake. After that the WRC from MI was always slower than the S2000 1.6T that Armindo drove in Portugal, and much slower than the Prodrive's Mini.

[Francis44]

You're right. Do you think that prodrive would put good material on MI hands? Of course not. MI wants to rent cars to drivers, and Prodrive too...

Prodrive gave a good car to Armindo on the Rally of Portugal 2011, but that was made by mistake. After that the WRC from MI was always slower than the S2000 1.6T that Armindo drove in Portugal, and much slower than the Prodrive's Mini.

Nice conspiracy theory....

Might occur to you Armindo was faster in Portugal because he knows the rally very well?! Of course there is always an excuse.

[Barreis]

Never heard for Nobre and he's works pilot.

[JAM]

Nice conspiracy theory....

Might occur to you Armindo was faster in Portugal because he knows the rally very well?! Of course there is always an excuse.

If you build a car and have to search drivers to rent it, would you give the same car to other team that also search for drivers to rent it? I wouldn't.

It's simple and have nothing to do with conspirancy. Business only.

[JAM]

Never heard for Nobre and he's works pilot.

"I could be here saying that i'm official driver, but that wouldn't be rtrue. We were at the right place at the right time, and with the upgraded MotorsportItalia we only won. Tody we are part of a team that has works support and that will work with Prodrive, as a big family. And thinking that way, we won another "fast brother", because beside Armindo now he will Sordo as a partner. Better is impossible!"

Paulo Nobre before swedish rally

[Andre Oliveira]

You're right. Do you think that prodrive would put good material on MI hands? Of course not. MI wants to rent cars to drivers, and Prodrive too...

Prodrive gave a good car to Armindo on the Rally of Portugal 2011, but that was made by mistake. After that the WRC from MI was always slower than the S2000 1.6T that Armindo drove in Portugal, and much slower than the Prodrive's Mini.

Good to see a Portuguese with this thinking. Others only say bad things about Armindo. He is not a top driver, but also is not a tourist.

[Plan9]

"I could be here saying that i'm official driver, but that wouldn't be rtrue. We were at the right place at the right time, and with the upgraded MotorsportItalia we only won. Tody we are part of a team that has works support and that will work with Prodrive, as a big family. And thinking that way, we won another "fast brother", because beside Armindo now he will Sordo as a partner. Better is impossible!"

Paulo Nobre before swedish rally

Very good quote. I was wondering how the Prodrive-MI relationship would work. I didn't think that MI had the capability to be a works team on its own merit.

[JAM]

Very good quote. I was wondering how the Prodrive-MI relationship would work. I didn't think that MI had the capability to be a works team on its own merit.

The relationship between MI and Prodrive is basicly the same as in 2011.

[Plan9]

What do you guys think will happen to Meeke's contract for 2013? He has a deal to do the full season in a MINI...

[Plan9]

The relationship between MI and Prodrive is basicly the same as in 2011.

I was worried that might be the case.

[Kielder]

@prodrive (http://twitter.com/#%21/prodrive) Great to have @krismeeke (http://twitter.com/krismeeke) back in the MINI WRC Thurs/Fri testing in Southern Spain. Trying out a range of new parts for the car.

Sordo is going to test next Sunday and Monday. Tests are going to take place at Huelva.

[gypseywilson]

Prodrive gave a good car to Armindo on the Rally of Portugal 2011, but that was made by mistake. After that the WRC from MI was always slower than the S2000 1.6T that Armindo drove in Portugal, and much slower than the Prodrive's Mini.[/QUOTE]

Why would Prodrive do that? I don't believe that for a minute.

[TyPat107]

Anyone know what's going on over at Prodrive now?
One of I believe dani's mechanics just tweeted: " lost a few good blokes today. The dream is over."
followed by "4 or5 more rallies this year"

[WRCS14]

Below is what I wrote on the 8th of February :


" This is the start of the wind down. I can see them doing another few European rounds convenient to the UK but if they are still going by Rally Deutschland I will be surprised.

As a business unless they are severely contractually obligated there is little point in continuing. Prodrive needs manufacturer backing and finance in addition to sponsorship to make a full programme viable.

They will not land another car maker in the WRC if there name is constantly attached to Mini."

They need to make a break from Mini to find another manufacturer. I hear 10 staff were let go which is very sad for thos involved :( There in no point in Prodrive pedalling the Mini WRC if its a dead end from a business point of view.

I think Prodrive would make an even more severe cut with BMW only they probably have sold 10 - 15 ? Mini customer cars and they want to look after them more so then those in Munich

[Rallyper]

[quote There in no point in Prodrive pedalling the Mini WRC if its a dead end from a business point of view.[/QUOTE]

I can´t understand why Mini couldn´t be a business? And how can anyone tell it´s not, from the beginning. Just tell me how anyone can look into the future?

[gtimad73]

Below is what I wrote on the 8th of February :


" This is the start of the wind down. I can see them doing another few European rounds convenient to the UK but if they are still going by Rally Deutschland I will be surprised.

As a business unless they are severely contractually obligated there is little point in continuing. Prodrive needs manufacturer backing and finance in addition to sponsorship to make a full programme viable.

They will not land another car maker in the WRC if there name is constantly attached to Mini."

They need to make a break from Mini to find another manufacturer. I hear 10 staff were let go which is very sad for thos involved :( There in no point in Prodrive pedalling the Mini WRC if its a dead end from a business point of view.

I think Prodrive would make an even more severe cut with BMW only they probably have sold 10 - 15 ? Mini customer cars and they want to look after them more so then those in Munich

so if like you say there looking to brake away. where do they go. are there any manufactures looking to come in?

[WRCS14]

There are probably no other manufacturers ready to come in GTimad73, I have found Prodrive to be a very proud company and I dont think they will tolerate a relatively minor team being the manufacturer entry for a great car that they created and ran relatively successfuly but only for a short time.

I think the lay offs and further reduction in rounds is a sign. For example they could have ran say 8 european rounds in 2009 with the Subaru and some sponsors which Marcus proved was not a bad car but there was little point. The manufacturer has given up and Prodrive had no point in business terms just racing a car that they build.

Many private semi-profesional teams run cars in WRC and national championships but I,m sure the common theme is they are all small to mid sized and many can go broke or shut down.

With a manufacturer behind you, your companies turnover will go up by millions, your profits increase dramaticaly as do your staff number and size of your premises.

Prodrive have manufacturer backed size premises and staff numbers but now with poor / mixed manufacturer input. Look at Malcolm Wilson and what has happened to his outfit since 1997. They have similar business model, take car makers money and secondary produce customer rally cars and sell for large amounts also.

OK mini is supposed to be developed to 2018 or something like that, if I am David Richards sitting at my desk looking at projected financial figures for nearly the next 6 years with just say 30% commitment level from BMW the figures will look poor. No other car maker is going to touch the company to build a new rally car is they are 30% connected to BMW. Im sure Richards is aware of this too. I would think it has to make sense for Prodrive to make a complete cut by the end of 2012 in business terms.

Wait and see.

[Plan9]

I agree with the above. I think it is pointless for Prodrive to run a Mini without reward. Best to cut and run like they did in 2009 with the Subaru.

[Barreis]

They ran group N impreza cars without program for decades so they should do the same with mini WRC.

[A.F.F.]

I still don't understand. The results were so promising. Shame, really ashame :mark:

[Rallyper]

So we are deaming out Mini for just rumours, are we?

[grugsticles]

Im seriously wondering just WHY Prodrive 'cant get any sponsors'.

There seems to be an abundance of energy drinks out there atm with cash to throw around with Monster, Red Bull and Go Fast being spoken for in the WRC, but surely there are other products, not just energy drink brands, selling well atm around the globe.
I can only assume Prodrive are looking for a single major sponsor which is a big mistake, why not go for multiple smaller sponsors? If the cars have to look like a 4 year old's paint work then so be it (Focus WRC of ~2008/09), as long as the money is there to support it.

So, perhaps DR needs to get his head out of his ass and realise that its not the 90's anymore and you have to make do with what you can get your hands on. If someone like the Petter and Henning Solberg can get the money together to run what was always going to be a financially limited campaign for the fast few seasons, then surely a company such as Prodrive can use the extra tools and resources at their disposal to secure sponsorship.

Maybe Ive missed something, which is quite likely, but to me it seems all too simple.

[Plan9]

Energy Drink companies have replaced Tobacco and Alcohol as the go-to source of sponsorship now.

[sollitt]

So, perhaps DR needs to get his head out of his ass and realise that its not the 90's anymore and you have to make do with what you can get your hands on. Hmmm, next time you find yourself incharge of a world renowned multi squillion dollar motorsport outfit let us know will you?

[Barreis]

Prodrive upgrades WRC Mini car with over 100 modifications - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97848)

[JAM]

Prodrive gave a good car to Armindo on the Rally of Portugal 2011, but that was made by mistake. After that the WRC from MI was always slower than the S2000 1.6T that Armindo drove in Portugal, and much slower than the Prodrive's Mini.

Why would Prodrive do that? I don't believe that for a minute.[/QUOTE]

Then you should explain how a car completly new in a S2000 1.6T configuration was faster than the same car with WRC configuration in all the other rallyes.

Strange, no? :rolleyes:

[JAM]

There are probably no other manufacturers ready to come in GTimad73, I have found Prodrive to be a very proud company and I dont think they will tolerate a relatively minor team being the manufacturer entry for a great car that they created and ran relatively successfuly but only for a short time.

I think the lay offs and further reduction in rounds is a sign. For example they could have ran say 8 european rounds in 2009 with the Subaru and some sponsors which Marcus proved was not a bad car but there was little point. The manufacturer has given up and Prodrive had no point in business terms just racing a car that they build.

Many private semi-profesional teams run cars in WRC and national championships but I,m sure the common theme is they are all small to mid sized and many can go broke or shut down.

With a manufacturer behind you, your companies turnover will go up by millions, your profits increase dramaticaly as do your staff number and size of your premises.

Prodrive have manufacturer backed size premises and staff numbers but now with poor / mixed manufacturer input. Look at Malcolm Wilson and what has happened to his outfit since 1997. They have similar business model, take car makers money and secondary produce customer rally cars and sell for large amounts also.

OK mini is supposed to be developed to 2018 or something like that, if I am David Richards sitting at my desk looking at projected financial figures for nearly the next 6 years with just say 30% commitment level from BMW the figures will look poor. No other car maker is going to touch the company to build a new rally car is they are 30% connected to BMW. Im sure Richards is aware of this too. I would think it has to make sense for Prodrive to make a complete cut by the end of 2012 in business terms.

Wait and see.

Completely agree

[JAM]

Im seriously wondering just WHY Prodrive 'cant get any sponsors'.

There seems to be an abundance of energy drinks out there atm with cash to throw around with Monster, Red Bull...

Red Bull gives peanuts to rallying.

Even in tracking races there were a lot of drivers with Red Bull on their cars without receiving almost nothing.

[Red bull]

There are probably no other manufacturers ready to come in GTimad73, I have found Prodrive to be a very proud company and I dont think they will tolerate a relatively minor team being the manufacturer entry for a great car that they created and ran relatively successfuly but only for a short time.

I think the lay offs and further reduction in rounds is a sign. For example they could have ran say 8 european rounds in 2009 with the Subaru and some sponsors which Marcus proved was not a bad car but there was little point. The manufacturer has given up and Prodrive had no point in business terms just racing a car that they build.

Many private semi-profesional teams run cars in WRC and national championships but I,m sure the common theme is they are all small to mid sized and many can go broke or shut down.

With a manufacturer behind you, your companies turnover will go up by millions, your profits increase dramaticaly as do your staff number and size of your premises.

Prodrive have manufacturer backed size premises and staff numbers but now with poor / mixed manufacturer input. Look at Malcolm Wilson and what has happened to his outfit since 1997. They have similar business model, take car makers money and secondary produce customer rally cars and sell for large amounts also.

OK mini is supposed to be developed to 2018 or something like that, if I am David Richards sitting at my desk looking at projected financial figures for nearly the next 6 years with just say 30% commitment level from BMW the figures will look poor. No other car maker is going to touch the company to build a new rally car is they are 30% connected to BMW. Im sure Richards is aware of this too. I would think it has to make sense for Prodrive to make a complete cut by the end of 2012 in business terms.

Wait and see.

It's time Prodrive started courting Hyundai if there is any hope of them{HYUNDAI}making a come back.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Veloster anyone.... there will be a new 1.6ltr Turbo at the Geneva show! :D Even though I don't like the car...

[Kielder]

Prodrive upgrades WRC Mini car with over 100 modifications - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97848)

Sordo's car is the only Mini which will compete with that modifications on the Rally of Portugal.

[N.O.T]

Sordo's car is the only Mini which will compete with that modifications on the Rally of Portugal.

Quite logical since those upgrades are from Prodrive, and only sordo has a a prodrive prepared car....

[mousti]

Quite logical since those upgrades are from Prodrive, and only sordo has a a prodrive prepared car....
U forget Sandell..

[N.O.T]

U forget Sandell..

customer spec...

[Kielder]

Quite logical since those upgrades are from Prodrive, and only sordo has a a prodrive prepared car....

It was planned that AA would participate on his home rally with all those modifications. Motorsport Italia/Armindo's sponsors or whatever saved the team this year. Many things were said to the portuguese driver by Prodrive, most of them untrue.

[N.O.T]

AA ?

you refer to the battery type?

[Kielder]

AA ?

you refer to the battery type?

American Airlines, for sure.

[EuroTroll]

American Airlines, for sure.

Nope. Anonymous Alcoholics. :D

[manta400]

i see Campbell Ray the Team manager has left, replaced by Paul Howarth...

[dimviii]

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/423410_312509512143822_157126557682119_833746_1382 075318_n.jpg

[Andre Oliveira]

Armindo Araújo without version 01B in Portugal (http://translate.google.pt/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=pt-PT&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fautosport.aeiou.pt%2Farmindo-araujo-sem-versao-01b-no-rali-de-portugal%3Df103707)
http://translate.google.pt/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=pt-PT&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fautosport.aeiou.pt%2Farmindo-araujo-sem-versao-01b-no-rali-de-portugal%3Df103707

[N.O.T]

Oh no...the poor tourists of nothingness do not get the upgraded parts...what a pity...

[Sulland]

Is Kris still a test driver with Prodrive ?
prodrive (http://www.prodrive.com/p_releases.html?id=333)

[mousti]

Offcourse he's still under contract there..

[A.F.F.]

I wonder what will Kris buy for David Richards this christmas?

[mousti]

A thing so David can shove it in his ...

[Gard]

A thing so David can shove it in his ...

Should have lot of those by now,,,

[N.O.T]

Why is prodrive at fault for not having money for a second car ???

[Plan9]

I wonder what will Kris buy for David Richards this christmas?

Lessons in Portuguese? I really hope those fizzels don't get the new car.

[Gard]

Why is prodrive at fault for not having money for a second car ???

Because they failed in getting sponsors and funding for their contracted drivers

[Tumbo]

Because they failed in getting sponsors and funding for their contracted drivers

they weren't helped by BMW or the FIA - perhaps you would rather they just took the Stobart position and put in Matt Wilson; or one of the multiple others that ppl complain about for getting seats in official entries.........cause the options seem to be to have them in full time or run 1 car and have the potential for the talented driver to enter fewer events?

[mousti]

We all don't know what the agreements were.. Or someone must be their when Richards and BMW people got together to agree with eachother?

[MikeD]

Francisco Name is running in Rally mexico with a MINI JWC WRC car. Does anybody know if that's run/prepared by Prodrive or by Motorsport Italia?

[mousti]

He's not starting..

Btw Campbell is already resigning from his position as teammanager..

[N.O.T]

Because they failed in getting sponsors and funding for their contracted drivers

they did not not have a sposnosor to begin with....

and besides why is a privates bussines for developing cars job to find sponsors...

[rallyfiend]

they did not not have a sposnosor to begin with....

and besides why is a privates bussines for developing cars job to find sponsors...

Because that what the contract that they, of their own free will, signed with BMW says was their job....

You know, standard business that happens the world over. With basically every motorsport team in the entire world.

[N.O.T]

Because that what the contract that they, of their own free will, signed with BMW says was their job....

You know, standard business that happens the world over. With basically every motorsport team in the entire world.

their job was to find sponsors ??? i thought they were a motorsport company preparing cars for competition....

ususally when a manufacturer signs with a team they provide it with the money as well to run...

[mousti]

If Richards went trough with his F1 team he would have to search for sponsors there too..

[rallyfiend]

their job was to find sponsors ??? i thought they were a motorsport company preparing cars for competition....

ususally when a manufacturer signs with a team they provide it with the money as well to run...

You think McLaren get gifted all their money and sponsors from Mercedes Benz? What about WIlliams?

Name a motorsport team that wouldn't have their own sponsorship team to help pay the bills? C'mon, just one.

[AndyRAC]

I thought we all knew that BMW backed the first year, then it was up to Prodrive to find sponsors from then onwards. This they couldn't do, despite good results and pretty good media coverage on BBC News several times - so wanted more £$£$£ from BMW - who told them were to go.

[N.O.T]

You think McLaren get gifted all their money and sponsors from Mercedes Benz? What about WIlliams?

Name a motorsport team that wouldn't have their own sponsorship team to help pay the bills? C'mon, just one.

i am not saying that....i am saying why is it prodrives duty to find sponsors and not BMWs ??? and why BMW gave the money in the first place if they weren't committed that much ?? for example i doubt they will quit DTM if they do not find sponsor after their first year...

[mousti]

Richards must be very confident to them with saying he would find sponsors. And BMW don't care so much about their 2nd range brand Mini in WRC? Nobody probably knows that on here..

[noel157]

Richards must be very confident to them with saying he would find sponsors. And BMW don't care so much about their 2nd range brand Mini in WRC? Nobody probably knows that on here..

I would agree. As well as contract details etc a lot more happened than we'll ever know.
I think what is currently in the public domain is only half the story. Whatever, the end result is so disappointing.

[jacko]

their job was to find sponsors ??? i thought they were a motorsport company preparing cars for competition....

ususally when a manufacturer signs with a team they provide it with the money as well to run...

First time in 10years i agree 100% with NOT, it's MINI (or BMW) that you can blame with the whole situation.
They had the perfect opportunity to fight against Ford&Citroën with Sordo and Meeke and even with good paid drivers. Last year it was already clear the car build by Prodrive was very good, so Prodrive did their job but without money from the manufacturer you can't get the results or invest what you want.
You must ask yourself: Is it MINI or Prodrive that benefit's more from the publicity... than you will understand how the world is made...

[N.O.T]

All i am saying is the biggest dissapointment from the whole Mini fiasco i think goes to BMW... From the moment they choose to get involved in the WRC they should have thought that money issues could arise and they should be prepared to support Prodrive for at least another year....Lets not forget that this was just the FIRST year of mini with a full program...

What BMW expect ?? that prodrive would find sponsorship to support 2 payed drivers for a full season ?? plus development ?? if they thought that was possible then they are a bunch of amateurs and should stick in making 4 door cages for trophy wives and their boyfriends...motorsport is not their thing...

[JAM]

Did anyone tried to think a little bit and question if BMW really wanted enter on the WRC?!?

Did you ever imagne that someone put BMW on the field promissing a good business (a WRC season by 70% of the cost)?

Wouldn't had you accepted?

[Barreis]

The only thing Richards wants is the money. And he has it a lot but he wants more. The problem is that BMW doesn't smoke nonsense. One more thing about Meeke: guy needs 5 full seasons before wins should come and possible championship.

[mousti]

Sordo's car is the only Mini which will compete with that modifications on the Rally of Portugal.
Jack De Keijzer said that's Bullcrap.. WRC TEAM MINI PORTUGAL will drive with it too.

[gravelman]

The only thing Richards wants is the money. And he has it a lot but he wants more. The problem is that BMW doesn't smoke nonsense. One more thing about Meeke: guy needs 5 full seasons before wins should come and possible championship.

5 full seasons?? On what do you base this insightful fact

[cali]

What BMW expect ?? that prodrive would find sponsorship to support 2 payed drivers for a full season ?? plus development ?? if they thought that was possible then they are a bunch of amateurs and should stick in making 4 door cages for trophy wives and their boyfriends...motorsport is not their thing...
That's problably what Richards promised to them. He failed. Ze germans are very strict people ...

[Rallyper]

The only thing Richards wants is the money. And he has it a lot but he wants more. The problem is that BMW doesn't smoke nonsense. One more thing about Meeke: guy needs 5 full seasons before wins should come and possible championship.

BMW got into this with an open eye. Anything else is jusst b**l s**t. And when you say A you have to do B. But BMW seems not to have done that. And they have so much to win on this. But doesn´t take their chance. They just want to do ladycup DTM...

[N.O.T]

They just want to do ladycup DTM...

DTM is not ladycup...

[Plan9]

5 full seasons?? On what do you base this insightful fact

+1 I'd like to here your justification too. He knows some of the events on the calendar...

[MikeD]

DTM is not ladycup...

No, it's CrapCup ;) ... I mean I love circuit racing (F1, GP2 and WTCC) but honestly, DTM is utter crap racing. It's nothing but cheating and driving people off tracks...

I will never understand that a huge company like BMW will only do these second hand series like DTM and GT racing. They should be in F1 and WRC, where the other big brands are.

[noel157]

One more thing about Meeke: guy needs 5 full seasons before wins should come and possible championship.

Can't wait to hear your reasoning behind this statement.

[AndyRAC]

No, it's CrapCup ;) ... I mean I love circuit racing (F1, GP2 and WTCC) but honestly, DTM is utter crap racing. It's nothing but cheating and driving people off tracks...

I will never understand that a huge company like BMW will only do these second hand series like DTM and GT racing. They should be in F1 and WRC, where the other big brands are.

The DTM must be doing something right to attract Manufacturers like Audi, Mercedes & BMW. Add in all the sponsors of the series - and you have a very healthy series. It is a proper professional Championship, however, unfortunately, the racing is pretty poor.
When the WRC can start attracting more big money Manufacturers and sponsors then we might start getting somewhere. At the moment, as shown by the Prodrive-Mini saga; they're staying away as it's not attractive to them.

[Barreis]

Maybe you don't know but live DTM millions of people are watching on TV and that' why they are there.

[BDunnell]

There's some utter rubbish being posted here about the DTM, in my view. The racing has generally become utterly tedious — a DTM race is the only sporting event I've ever left before the end out of sheer boredom — but no-one can doubt that the cars are pretty serious machinery, and that it has a huge following in Germany. These factors alone are surely sufficient grounds for BMW to justify its entry. I'm surprised it's been gone from the DTM for so long.

[N.O.T]

The DTM must be doing something right to attract Manufacturers like Audi, Mercedes & BMW.

yes they do...its a German racing series... that is enough for those manufacturers...

I am not a fan of go in circles racing... but DTM is nice... i actually think it might be the only racing event which i might watch for around 10 minutes after the start and then turn off...

[MikeD]

Prodrive's entry name will change name from "MINI WRC TEAM" to "Prodrive WRC Team" for the next rally and onwards.

[MikeD]

The DTM must be doing something right to attract Manufacturers like Audi, Mercedes & BMW. Add in all the sponsors of the series - and you have a very healthy series. It is a proper professional Championship, however, unfortunately, the racing is pretty poor.
When the WRC can start attracting more big money Manufacturers and sponsors then we might start getting somewhere. At the moment, as shown by the Prodrive-Mini saga; they're staying away as it's not attractive to them.

It's first and foremost a German championship and not a world championship (therefor lower costs due to less travel costs). It only attracts Audi, Mercedes and BMW because it's a fight of German pride.
And it's not a healthy series. It's full of cheating and pushing drivers off track because the teams-boss says they have to. It's a joke series and has nothing to do with proper racing. The amount of cheating and lack of respect for your competitor both on and off track is unbelieveable. All this has lead to several talks over the years about closing down the series. So DTM is not a healthy series and they are not doing things right.

[AndyRAC]

Are you sure you've watched the DTM - it sounds as though you're describing the BTCC....were the driving standards are poor. The DTM's problem is the lack of action....

[Andre Oliveira]

Version 01B in Portugal to Sordo, Armindo and Sandel.

[Plan9]

Will Sandell go to NZ?

[noel157]

Another Mini arrives in Ireland:

McGarrity’s Mini will mix it with big guns - Motorsport, Sport - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/mcgarrityrsquos-mini-will-mix-it-with-big-guns-16131066.html)

[noel157]

Ex Nobre RGB car:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/427982_345377348832314_200401329996584_874714_5223 02802_n.jpg

[kiil]

Hardly used then :-)

[Plan9]

Ex Nobre RGB car:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/427982_345377348832314_200401329996584_874714_5223 02802_n.jpg

Who's is that? very nice livery.

[Kielder]

Who's is that? very nice livery.

According to Kerr's Tyres livery, it's McGarrity's.

[noel157]

He has also apparently put his name down for the first RHD car to be delivered in May.

[A.F.F.]

Can you bend it me from a barbwire, who build those cars? Prodrive?

[Plan9]

According to Kerr's Tyres livery, it's McGarrity's.

Okay thank you for that. I do not follow Irish Rallying so I was wondering if you could clear up a few points for me?

1. Where do guys like this get the money for a MINI WRC?

2. Do Irish rally drivers prefer Prodrive machines?

3. Will Meeke actually do Crcuit of Ireland in anything? There has been a lot of speculation that he will run in IRC class with the ST 1.6 or National class with a WRC MINI. Has there been any development on this?

Thanks a lot.

[gravelman]

Okay thank you for that. I do not follow Irish Rallying so I was wondering if you could clear up a few points for me?

1. Where do guys like this get the money for a MINI WRC?

2. Do Irish rally drivers prefer Prodrive machines?

3. Will Meeke actually do Crcuit of Ireland in anything? There has been a lot of speculation that he will run in IRC class with the ST 1.6 or National class with a WRC MINI. Has there been any development on this?

Thanks a lot.

1. Most top irish drivers are successful businessmen, with a long love for the sport and have pursued it as their hobbie from their youth until middle age. Derek mcgarrity is a sucessful helicopter and rally car trader with a long association with prodrive.

2. Prodrive have over 20 years experience of setting up cars for Irish tar since the days of the rothmans porsches, 6r4s and BMW m3s. They have perfected the art of spring and damper settings for the unique characteristics of Irish Tarmac. It also helps that they Provide a comprehensive technical support. I don't work for them by the way!!

3. This looks highly unlikely, I don't know if it will happen, but by the sounds of things, the two boys don't have the budget for it and it might conflict with their existing contract, for all that now appears to be worth.

[janvanvurpa]

2. Prodrive have over 20 years experience of setting up cars for Irish tar since the days of the rothmans porsches, 6r4s and BMW m3s. They have perfected the art of spring and damper settings for the unique characteristics of Irish Tarmac. It also helps that they Provide a comprehensive technical support. I don't work for them by the way!!
.

Oi! Gravelman, I've only ever done gravel (or snow) rally and that tarmac stuff is very strange to me, all of it. Now since about before i started in '84 I read about Irish tarmac and it is always referred to as "unique".... Now it seems narrow, but I've driven narrow English 'whites" and French "D" roads (millions of kms on them)(well it seems like millions in a 404 D ), so it can't be that. It seems bumpier, and it seems to have a lot of dirt and crap on it....what is it that's different and unique?

[gravelman]

Oi! Gravelman, I've only ever done gravel (or snow) rally and that tarmac stuff is very strange to me, all of it. Now since about before i started in '84 I read about Irish tarmac and it is always referred to as "unique".... Now it seems narrow, but I've driven narrow English 'whites" and French "D" roads (millions of kms on them)(well it seems like millions in a 404 D ), so it can't be that. It seems bumpier, and it seems to have a lot of dirt and crap on it....what is it that's different and unique?

Bit like the ******* offspring of forest and Tarmac to be honest. Very bumpy, with lots of mud and loose gravel, broken surfaces, big jumps down narrow lanes. I've heard of people using gravel dampers with tarmac springs, I stand to be corrected on that by people with more technical knowhow than a navigator!!!

[janvanvurpa]

Bit like the ******* offspring of forest and Tarmac to be honest. Very bumpy, with lots of mud and loose gravel, broken surfaces, big jumps down narrow lanes. I've heard of people using gravel dampers with tarmac springs, I stand to be corrected on that by people with more technical knowhow than a navigator!!!

Tanks. That was my impression, and one of the reasons I consider tarmac scarier than hell. I reckon most normal people kinda expect grip when its tarmac and are surprised when the tires let go....sometimes with exciting repair bills as a result..Gravel, if I have grip I'm happy but I'm not expecting it so no big surprise if its not there. Result: Gravel=happiness..
And since all we have is gravel I'm a happy boy.

[gravelman]

Tanks. That was my impression, and one of the reasons I consider tarmac scarier than hell. I reckon most normal people kinda expect grip when its tarmac and are surprised when the tires let go....sometimes with exciting repair bills as a result..Gravel, if I have grip I'm happy but I'm not expecting it so no big surprise if its not there. Result: Gravel=happiness..
And since all we have is gravel I'm a happy boy.

Cannot seem to post YouTube link (using iPad), but to give yourself the best idea of some o the conditions, look up "Bertie fisher on board Galway 1999", sm other related links will come up and that will give you an idea of the fun we have over here, assuming we don hit any walls..ahem!!

[Dug83]

Here's a link to give you a bit of an idea what makes irish roads different Bertie Fisher-Atlantic Drive,Donegal 1999 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqlpxDYArrY&feature=related)

[kiil]

Tanks. That was my impression, and one of the reasons I consider tarmac scarier than hell. I reckon most normal people kinda expect grip when its tarmac and are surprised when the tires let go....sometimes with exciting repair bills as a result..Gravel, if I have grip I'm happy but I'm not expecting it so no big surprise if its not there. Result: Gravel=happiness..
And since all we have is gravel I'm a happy boy.

I have been competing almost only on tarmac, and i find gravel scary as hell, because of the lack of grip :-) So i guess it depends on what you're used to :-)

[Pinto]

Another Mini arrives in Ireland:

McGarrity’s Mini will mix it with big guns - Motorsport, Sport - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/mcgarrityrsquos-mini-will-mix-it-with-big-guns-16131066.html)


He has also apparently put his name down for the first RHD car to be delivered in May.

Yes i hear from a prodrive sourse that it may be here sooner than that that car will be for DMG himself and the other car will be for Hire

[gravelman]

Yes i hear from a prodrive sourse that it may be here sooner than that that car will be for DMG himself and the other car will be for Hire

Bit of competition in the hirecar business. Obviously targeting the European market, not just Irish customers

[Plan9]

Yes i hear from a prodrive sourse that it may be here sooner than that that car will be for DMG himself and the other car will be for Hire

Does your source know if the Irish cars will have all the updates parts that Dani will have in WRC?

[Plan9]

I have been competing almost only on tarmac, and i find gravel scary as hell, because of the lack of grip :-) So i guess it depends on what you're used to :-)

What car do you use?

[Pinto]

as far as i aware the are customer spec car but with DMG you will never know the score he keeps things close,

[Plan9]

Below is a press release from Prodrive; in it there is info about the new 1B Mini. Also they have a altered livery (more exposure for BP). Hope to see this continuing.

http://www.prodrive.com/p_releases.html?id=335

[Andre Oliveira]

Version 01B

http://www.rallysport.hu/images/2012/photo/wrc/04_portugal/01_kedd/images/RSHU_Photo_019_jpg.jpg

[Plan9]

Great photo! Looks like Prodrive are not wearing their own uniform as opposed to MINI uniforms. Why does only Dani get a 01B? I thought that Patrik would also get one?

[sollitt]

Why does only Dani get a 01B? I thought that Patrik would also get one?They'll be having a foot in each camp. Sordo with the untried new version and Sandell with the proven finisher.

[jonkka]

BMW doesn't apparently has any interest, their media site hasn't anything on rallies since Monte Carlo...