Alonso you cry baby!

[ioan]

What does he want from Petrov?!
Why does he gesticulate?
Where were his 6 tenths today?!
Why can't he grow up?!

Glad we saw his 'talent' or lack of it today!

[Mark]

The better man won today!

[markabilly]

yeah, but he would not have been able to gesture if it weren't for "team leader" decision.
Guess someone forgot to say to Petrov, "Freddieanando-is-faster-than-you....do you understand..."

[Garry Walker]

What does he want from Petrov?!
Why does he gesticulate?
Where were his 6 tenths today?!
Why can't he grow up?!

Glad we saw his 'talent' or lack of it today!

If I said what I think about alonso, I would get banned at once.

But my god, I am truly happy that alonso and his cheating ******* team didnt win, awesome, simply awesome

[Koz]

Donkey of the race.

[Tumbo]

obviously Petrov didn't get Smedley's message.......Alonso is faster confirm you understand :p

[truefan72]

in Contrast Hamilton did not complain to Kubica. Hopefully people will now see Alonso for the petulant classless guy he is. Great driver, poor person

[truefan72]

Donkey of the race.

absolutely

[F1boat]

Alonso had a good first season, he lost and was frustrated, but I am thankful that he kept the life for so long. I was sure that Vettel will be champion, as RBR are ingenious team and unfortunately that happened. But I am very proud with Fred for the good fight.
Better luck next season, Fernando.

[Koz]

Alonso had a good first season, he lost and was frustrated, but I am thankful that he kept the life for so long. I was sure that Vettel will be champion, as RBR are ingenious team and unfortunately that happened. But I am very proud with Fred for the good fight.
Better luck next season, Fernando.

I have no doubt that Alonso is the best driver in the grid right now, however for someone who is so "special" he acts like a little ****er.

From the whining since the second race of the season, he needs to be as big a man as he is a driver.

[markabilly]

Unfortunately, while I am not a fan of fred, this was a team decision that put him behind a car that he could not pass just as Hamilton was also behind a car that he could not pass, another renault.

Leave him on the track for at least as long as Hamilton and maybe Button, and the wdc was his

[Garry Walker]

I have no doubt that Alonso is the best driver in the grid right now, however for someone who is so "special" he acts like a little ****er.


No, he isnt.

[jens]

Most likely simply an emotional reaction without much serious thought put into it.

[F1boat]

Oh, no doubt that Ferrari didn't deserve the title today. The better, the more brutal team, won.

[donKey jote]

Most likely simply an emotional reaction without much serious thought put into it.
being reasonable eh? since when is that allowed on the forum :p

[F1boat]

Most likely simply an emotional reaction without much serious thought put into it.

Yes. People from countries like Spain, Italy, Bulgaria tend to be more emotional and show their anger. People from countries like Great Britain and Germany tend to act seemingly calmer. Of course, there are exceptions.

[Robinho]

i understand he was frustrated, but that was low and pointless. He couldn't pass Petrov, as seeing as Petrov was racing for points and his race seat, i see no reason he should have moved over.

At least Alonso had the decency to say Petrov drove well and made no mistakes so he couldn't get past, after the race, but it just adds another mark in the column of reasons why i was happy to see him lose today

[ioan]

in Contrast Hamilton did not complain to Kubica. Hopefully people will now see Alonso for the petulant classless guy he is. Great driver, poor person

Those who could saw it already, for the rest I do not hold much hope.

[wedge]

Glad we saw his 'talent' or lack of it today!

Lack of talent? Renault were difficult to overtake cf. Hamilton vs. Kubica and in hindsight Ferrari should have stayed out longer on the first stint.


Most likely simply an emotional reaction without much serious thought put into it.

To be fair, he didn't carry it to the media and said it was a moment of frustration.

[ioan]

Oh, no doubt that Ferrari didn't deserve the title today. The better, the more brutal team, won.

Huh?! :s

[ioan]

Lack of talent?

Yep, lack of talent! He was driving outside the track almost every lap, one mistake after the other! :down:
Six tenths my rear side.

[Fischer]

Yep, lack of talent! He was driving outside the track almost every lap, one mistake after the other! :down:
Six tenths my rear side.

You don't know what you're talking about, so I suggest you shut it. Alonso is a two times champion, he fought back very well to become championship leader but he lost out.

[markabilly]

Lack of talent? Renault were difficult to overtake cf. Hamilton vs. Kubica and in hindsight Ferrari should have stayed out longer on the first stint.

.
True, all true, but ever since the "dream team" left, every year there have been some really dumb mistakes by ferrrari managment....things such as Massa running out of gas as he went out to qualify.......Massa having been permitted to leave with the fuel hose attached to his car when leading the race in Singapore (that would have given him all the points he needed to win the WDC....)

I KNEW the petrov and rosberg had already pitted and probably run to the end of the race. The only way me does this, who is mostly incompentent in being a team manager, is if I can look at the timing gaps, and be sure that FA comes out ahead of those two..........

and if I were smart enough not have done it, then that means they are really hurting for some talent on that pit wall :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Vettel may have won but Fred and his team lost

BTW that sixth tenths of a second got lost somewhere, as they were that scared of webber :confused: :confused:

[F1boat]

Alonso fought bravely to the very end with a car, which in far too many races was the third fastest. He had an awesome season. I am very happy to be a fan of him.

[DazzlaF1]

TBH i dont think many people are giving Petrov the credit he deserves. Yes the Renault was difficult to get past because it had great traction off the corners but the truth is, he never once made a mistake, never ran wide and was firm and fair with his defensive driving. and its 6th place meaning 8 well earned points which has also probably secured him a seat next year.

[ioan]

You don't know what you're talking about, so I suggest you shut it.

Where's pino when you need him?

[wedge]

Yep, lack of talent! He was driving outside the track almost every lap, one mistake after the other! :down:
Six tenths my rear side.

He was over driving the car. What did he have to lose with Vettel comfortably leading the race and championship?

Hamilton was stuck behind Kubica. Which tells you how hard the Renaults were difficult to overtake. Hamilton went off and ruined his LF tyre with flat spots. That must be lack of talent.

Gosh, which is worse? the previous examples or spearing into cars when trying to overtake. I find the latter almost unforgivable compared to what Alonso did in Abu Dhabi.

[Dave B]

Most likely simply an emotional reaction without much serious thought put into it.
Understandable in the heat of the moment, but he seemed to hold the same opinion of Petrov when he spoke to the BBC after the race.

Sulky petulant whinger who I'm pleased to say couldn't even win with his 7 points gained by cheating.

[christophulus]

Sulky petulant whinger who I'm pleased to say couldn't even win with his 7 points gained by cheating.

:up:

[Fischer]

Where's pino when you need him?

Please, go cry in a corner. What do you do for a living, you sit behind a desk or clean cars and accuse someone of lack of talent?

[Sonic]

Hopefully people will now see Alonso for the petulant classless guy he is. Great driver, poor person

Spot on. I'm sad Mark couldn't do it but thankfully Alonso didn't get the championship.

[Dave B]

Hamilton was stuck behind Kubica.
Which probably cost him the race win. But you don't see him complaining, do you?

[Mark]

No pino but I'm here so calm down please.

[wedge]

Which probably cost him the race win. But you don't see him complaining, do you?

He wasn't particularly happy with his strategy either. McLaren had to calm him down mid-race which was apparent during a radio excerpt.

Also, Dave, I know you dislike Alonso but you of all people know how drivers react: heat of the moment is one thing, time is another.

[UltimateDanGTR]

every great real life story needs to have a happy ending. the 2010 F1 season has been a great story, and the happy ending is we have a new world champion.

the sad ending (Alonso being champ) has been avoided, and alonso got up his knickers in a twist today behind petrov like he did in the first few races of the year.

thank goodness.

[Dave B]

He wasn't particularly happy with his strategy either. McLaren had to calm him down mid-race which was apparent during a radio excerpt.
But he's mature enough to realise that Kubica had his own race to run. We've seen it so many times from Alonso, he seems to expect traffic to melt out of his way.

[Cooper_S]

Most likely simply an emotional reaction without much serious thought put into it.
Alonso frustration at the end was a little off, but I guess it can be excused as a spur of the moment reaction given what was at stake. He will when he calms down see his real frustration should be at his team for calling the pit stop too early.

[wedge]

But he's mature enough to realise that Kubica had his own race to run. We've seen it so many times from Alonso, he seems to expect traffic to melt out of his way.

Give the guy a break. He just lost the WDC.

Sport is emotional.

Someone said that the Ferrari mechanics were unsportsmanlike when they cheered at Vettel's DNF in Korea.

Or how about that Ferrari mechanic banging a hoarding or whatever it was in Brazil 2008 when he found Ferrari had lost.

[Daniel]

Give the guy a break. He just lost the WDC.

Sport is emotional.

Someone said that the Ferrari mechanics were unsportsmanlike when they cheered at Vettel's DNF in Korea.

Or how about that Ferrari mechanic banging a hoarding or whatever it was in Brazil 2008 when he found Ferrari had lost.

Blame yourself or your team, not the opposition when all they did was their job.

[racepode1]

Great Season Fernado, with thath car second in the Championship is an excepcional result. Any one will be hungry in that situation. For those who call alonso Cheater Remember the race when the pace car block Fernanddo...

[Daniel]

Great Season Fernado, with thath car second in the Championship is an excepcional result. Any one will be hungry in that situation. For those who call alonso Cheater Remember the race when the pace car block Fernanddo...
What coverage have you been watching?

[steveaki13]

What coverage have you been watching?


Spanish or Italian by the sounds of it. ;)

[ioan]

He was over driving the car. What did he have to lose with Vettel comfortably leading the race and championship?

Hamilton was stuck behind Kubica. Which tells you how hard the Renaults were difficult to overtake. Hamilton went off and ruined his LF tyre with flat spots. That must be lack of talent.

Gosh, which is worse? the previous examples or spearing into cars when trying to overtake. I find the latter almost unforgivable compared to what Alonso did in Abu Dhabi.

So now you think that Petrov is as good as Kubica? I wouldn't say teh opposite but I do not remember people stating this until now.

Also Hamilton has tried several times to get by, while Alonso had troubles getting close to Petrov even though he was all over the place and constantly outbraking himself.

IMO Alonso is bad in one to one racing (he's been bumping into other cars quite a lot this season, a bit like Alguersuari) and he's not the fastest out there either. If it weren't for team orders and 3 mechanical failures for Vettel Alonso would have never had the slightest chance to the title.

[ioan]

What coverage have you been watching?

Probably the one with the red mist. :)

[Sonic]

Blame yourself or your team, not the opposition when all they did was their job.

:up:

[fandango]

I think Alonso's gesture to Petrov was wrong and unsporting, but I find it amazing how much people hate Alonso. I mean, when Hamilton was caught lieing to the stewards that time in Australia, for example, why didn't he earn the nickname "the liar"? Or the time when when Vettel was gesticulating in Hungary over his drive-through penalty? Or Vettel's "crazy" signs about Webber in Turkey? It's not like Alonso is only the imperfect person out there, and yet all the bile is tossed at him.

People laugh over Hunt punching a marshall, or Piquet attacking Salazar, but Alonso steps out of line and half the people on here want to crucify him.

[ioan]

I think Alonso's gesture to Petrov was wrong and unsporting, but I find it amazing how much people hate Alonso.

He's making it very easy with his behavior.


I mean, when Hamilton was caught lieing to the stewards that time in Australia, for example, why didn't he earn the nickname "the liar"? Or the time when when Vettel was gesticulating in Hungary over his drive-through penalty? Or Vettel's "crazy" signs about Webber in Turkey? It's not like Alonso is only the imperfect person out there, and yet all the bile is tossed at him.

The all were criticized, or worse, at that time, so why shouldn't Alonso be criticized too?! Maybe you can explain us?

[Daniel]

I think Alonso's gesture to Petrov was wrong and unsporting, but I find it amazing how much people hate Alonso. I mean, when Hamilton was caught lieing to the stewards that time in Australia, for example, why didn't he earn the nickname "the liar"? Or the time when when Vettel was gesticulating in Hungary over his drive-through penalty? Or Vettel's "crazy" signs about Webber in Turkey? It's not like Alonso is only the imperfect person out there, and yet all the bile is tossed at him.

People laugh over Hunt punching a marshall, or Piquet attacking Salazar, but Alonso steps out of line and half the people on here want to crucify him.
But he's always doing this stuff. Whining at the team to get Massa out of the way in Germany, causing problems in McLaren, being aware of the cheating that went on in Singapore with Piquet and acting as if he was a saint. If Alonso just drove he'd be FAR more popular. He's a good driver, but as a character he's consistently sub-par.

[ioan]

But he's always doing this stuff. Whining at the team to get Massa out of the way in Germany, causing problems in McLaren, being aware of the cheating that went on in Singapore with Piquet and acting as if he was a saint. If Alonso just drove he'd be FAR more popular. He's a good driver, but as a character he's consistently sub-par.

You're being kind.

[Daniel]

As Ioan said about Hamilton, he was criticised at the time. Tbh I don't see that liegate controversy as being that bad. It was just very very silly of McLaren and Lewis. I'm not the biggest Lewis fan tbh but even I can't hold the lying fiasco against him.

[fandango]

But he's always doing this stuff. Whining at the team to get Massa out of the way in Germany, causing problems in McLaren, being aware of the cheating that went on in Singapore with Piquet and acting as if he was a saint. If Alonso just drove he'd be FAR more popular. He's a good driver, but as a character he's consistently sub-par.

I take your point, but those things happen with so many drivers, and have happened so much over the years, but people seem to hold a special little corner of hate in their heart for Alonso.

I have no problem with the fact of him being criticised, but I'm amazed at the level of ire, and how it all gets remembered EVERY time he does anything. If Alonso had been caught lieing to the stewards, for example, we'd NEVER be allowed to forget it. Hamilton had a good moan about what went on between Button and him in the closing laps in Turkey, his face at the end of the race said it all, there's no question that there were team orders there, and yet it (rightly) doesn't get brought up every few days on the threads here. There is a distinct imbalance.

It's sad that there are more threads celebrating his loss than Vettel's victory. You can hardly argue that that's caused only by his actions.

[airshifter]

It almost made me laugh watching the whiner crack under pressure, causing himself to go off several times while Petrov showed him what it's like. Even the ego stroking over the radio didn't help him. At least some of the team helped him wipe his tears after the race. :D


As for the question Fandango raised, I think it's a matter of Alonsos consistent lack of morals. I've been critical of others when they lie, cheat, etc but Alonso seems to have a habit of putting himself in these situations over and over.

[Daniel]

I take your point, but those things happen with so many drivers, and have happened so much over the years, but people seem to hold a special little corner of hate in their heart for Alonso.

I have no problem with the fact of him being criticised, but I'm amazed at the level of ire, and how it all gets remembered EVERY time he does anything. If Alonso had been caught lieing to the stewards, for example, we'd NEVER be allowed to forget it. Hamilton had a good moan about what went on between Button and him in the closing laps in Turkey, his face at the end of the race said it all, there's no question that there were team orders there, and yet it (rightly) doesn't get brought up every few days on the threads here. There is a distinct imbalance.

It's sad that there are more threads celebrating his loss than Vettel's victory. You can hardly argue that that's caused only by his actions.

But Alonso has been there through IMHO the last 3 big controversies. Crashgate, spygate and the team orders fiasco this year and acting like none of it ever happened.

Airshifter summed it up perfectly. Only Alonso does it all......

As I said if Alonso just did his job and drove then there wouldn't be all this hatred for him. If it were just the team orders this year then we wouldn't be having this thread....

[ioan]

Alonso is a great driver, but he needs to keep a lid on his emotions if he wants people to believe he has changed. Theres always next year.. :)

He can't change, it's his nature.

[i_max2k2]

But he's always doing this stuff. Whining at the team to get Massa out of the way in Germany, causing problems in McLaren, being aware of the cheating that went on in Singapore with Piquet and acting as if he was a saint. If Alonso just drove he'd be FAR more popular. He's a good driver, but as a character he's consistently sub-par.

Add to that, showing gestures in Monaco, to the guys he was racing, when he couldn't pass them! I started hating him from 2006 Japanese gp, when Michael's engine blew and he did some weird gestures passing him. He's a whiner asking for team orders, and he still dint win it.

[fandango]

But Alonso has been there through IMHO the last 3 big controversies. Crashgate, spygate and the team orders fiasco this year and acting like none of it ever happened.

Airshifter summed it up perfectly. Only Alonso does it all......

As I said if Alonso just did his job and drove then there wouldn't be all this hatred for him. If it were just the team orders this year then we wouldn't be having this thread....

But it's only Alonso who gets everything he's ever done wrong dragged out every time he does something people don't like. It's disproportionate how much people hate him.

Here's another example. During free practice there in Abu Dhabi Hamilton accused Massa of trying to run him off the road. On the replay you can clearly see that Massa was on a fast lap and Hamilton was apparently, from his line and speed, giving way. It was the incident where Hamilton took out the camera in the bollard, and Hamilton was way out of order accusing Massa like he did.
He had already received a reprimand for the way he cut across someone, one of the division two cars, I don't remember who. But I didn't see three threads opening up on here about his lack of morals, his lying or his arrogance. To make those points would be valid, and then to move on from it, too. But the Alonso haters never move on.

I was never a great fan of Senna, for example. But I don't jump in every time he's mentioned and say he's Senna the cheat because he won one of his chamionships by driving Prost off the road.

[DexDexter]

Donkey of the race.

More like donkey after the race. The race result was a result of the strategy the intelligent people at the Ferrari pitwall chose.

[Big Ben]

Wow. I don´t really believe in this stuff, but most of you should really consider anger management. Once upon a time hooligans would vandalize phones boots or something like that... I guess it's the bad side of technology, now they lose their minds on global scale :laugh: Thanks God there is the good side of technology... I'm safe in my home otherwise maybe people would read tomorrow in the newspaper about poor eu who got beaten to death by ioan and his mob

[Big Ben]

He's making it very easy with his behavior.



The all were criticized, or worse, at that time, so why shouldn't Alonso be criticized too?! Maybe you can explain us?

I imagine all your hair up, clothes torn apart, your eyes ready to pop out of their sockets while you type this... am I right? It certainly sounds like that. I hope you are not smacking your head.

I love the tone. Who are you to criticize anybody anyway?

[Daniel]

I imagine all your hair up, clothes torn apart, your eyes ready to pop out of their sockets while you type this... am I right? It certainly sounds like that. I hope you are not smacking your head.

I love the tone. Who are you to criticize anybody anyway?
Wow. You sure owned ioan :rotflmao: NOT

[Dave B]

From the Tweets of Adam Cooper:


And an FIA source tells me he [Alonso] declined an invitation to congratulate Vettel in parc ferme...

Class act. :\

[Big Ben]

Wow. You sure owned ioan :rotflmao: NOT

how do you call this... a NOT joke :laugh:

[DexDexter]

how do you call this... a NOT joke :laugh:

I don't understand how you can defend a driver who shakes his fist at another competitor just because he himself couldn't get past him and then will not congratulate the new WDC. He has a hot temper and will calm down eventually but it's very understandable if people want to criticise him after today.

[fandango]

From the Tweets of Adam Cooper:



Class act. :\

Is that some kind of Chinese whispers you're playing there? Someone tells someone tells someone. We saw Webber slinking away when got out of his car. Is he as bad as Alonso, too, or does he not get judged in the same way? C'mon, I'd expect better from you.

[Big Ben]

I don't understand how you can defend a driver who shakes his fist at another competitor just because he himself couldn't get past him and then will not congratulate the new WDC. He has a hot temper and will calm down eventually but it's very understandable if people want to criticise him after today.

It's easy. First of all I have no idea what happened. Second, I find most posts pathetic enough to not even care what happened as it can't justify it.

[fandango]

I don't understand how you can defend a driver who shakes his fist at another competitor just because he himself couldn't get past him and then will not congratulate the new WDC. He has a hot temper and will calm down eventually but it's very understandable if people want to criticise him after today.

I agree. I wouldn't defend Alonso's gestures to Petrov, but as far as I know he did congratulate Vettel. On Spanish TV straight after the race he congratulated Vettel and said he definitely deserved to be champion. The screen was split, it was while the podium celebrations were on. On the same channel, where Alonso is GOD, they said Alonso shook his fist at Petrov but it wasn't Petrov's fault. Italian TV asked him if or why was he recriminating Petrov. He said no, he just thought Petrov was a bit too aggressive.

They didn't mention any of the other immoral things Alonso is supposed to have done...

[Big Ben]

Is that some kind of Chinese whispers you're playing there? Someone tells someone tells someone. We saw Webber slinking away when got out of his car. Is he as bad as Alonso, too, or does he not get judged in the same way? C'mon, I'd expect better from you.

You've learnt your lessons now. I think it would be quite classy for MW to show Vettel and the team the finger

[ioan]

Wow. I don´t really believe in this stuff, but most of you should really consider anger management. Once upon a time hooligans would vandalize phones boots or something like that... I guess it's the bad side of technology, now they lose their minds on global scale :laugh: Thanks God there is the good side of technology... I'm safe in my home otherwise maybe people would read tomorrow in the newspaper about poor eu who got beaten to death by ioan and his mob

I take it you are very disappointed because VETTEL WON IT while you thought your hero had it in the bag! :p

I just love ipoetic justice! :D

[Dave B]

Is that some kind of Chinese whispers you're playing there? Someone tells someone tells someone. We saw Webber slinking away when got out of his car. Is he as bad as Alonso, too, or does he not get judged in the same way? C'mon, I'd expect better from you.
I perhaps should have written, "class act, if true". But Adam Cooper is a respected journalist who knows better than to publish blatently false information on a public Twitter feed.

[Big Ben]

I take it you are very disappointed because VETTEL WON IT while you thought your hero had it in the bag! :p

I just love ipoetic justice! :D

Because you are good and I am bad?

[ioan]

Is that some kind of Chinese whispers you're playing there? Someone tells someone tells someone. We saw Webber slinking away when got out of his car. Is he as bad as Alonso, too, or does he not get judged in the same way? C'mon, I'd expect better from you.

Just because Webber did something it doesn't make Alonso look good doing the same.

Isn't there nothing really positive about Alonso's manners and morals that you can use to support him? Something that you do not need to relate to others in an attempt to make him look good? I guess there isn't otherwise I don't see why Alonso's classy supporters attempt to pull others through the mud to make him look cleaner.

[ioan]

Because you are good and I am bad?

No, because I feel good and you feel bad! :D

[fandango]

I just had another look at the incident with Petrov. I would post a link on You Tube, but it'll probably be gone soon. He wasn't shaking his fist, but I would interpret it as a gesture saying "For F***'s sake, man", to which Petrov throws up his hands in a "What do you expect?" gesture. End of conversation. It's the kind of thing I see on the streets of Barcelona every day, and at the next red light you pull up alongside the same guy and it's all over.

[Big Ben]

No, because I feel good and you feel bad! :D

that's poetic justice to you? I didn't know I mean so much to you. and I don't feel bad... F1 is just a sport... (in all world except India) I find it more disturbing the people's reaction than it bothers me that Vettel won. He's no Schumi, I don't hate him.... I just find him annoying sometimes. he behaves sometimes like a stupid teenager.

[Big Ben]

I just had another look at the incident with Petrov. I would post a link on You Tube, but it'll probably be gone soon. He wasn't shaking his fist, but I would interpret it as a gesture saying "For F***'s sake, man", to which Petrov throws up his hands in a "What do you expect?" gesture. End of conversation. It's the kind of thing I see on the streets of Barcelona every day, and at the next red light you pull up alongside the same guy and it's all over.

This actually the first time I see what happened and you are right... After reading 3 pages of this thread I thought he tried to beat him or something

[fandango]

Just because Webber did something it doesn't make Alonso look good doing the same.

Isn't there nothing really positive about Alonso's manners and morals that you can use to support him? Something that you do not need to relate to others in an attempt to make him look good? I guess there isn't otherwise I don't see why Alonso's classy supporters attempt to pull others through the mud to make him look cleaner.

I have already said that I don't defend Alonso's behaviour. I'm not saying he's a saint. I don't have a problem with people criticising him. What I'm saying is that the anger and hate directed at him is out of all proportion to his behaviour. The example of Webber's behaviour is valid. People are using two standards to judge.

[fandango]

I perhaps should have written, "class act, if true". But Adam Cooper is a respected journalist who knows better than to publish blatently false information on a public Twitter feed.

No, I would have included the link. I didn't say it was blatantly false, but I saw Alonso get out of his car on TV and walk to his team. I didn't see him ignore Vettel, but like other drivers I didn't see him seek Vettel out either. But there seems to be a special rule for Alonso from some people, not just his team.

[jas123f1]

What does he want from Petrov?!
Why does he gesticulate?
Where were his 6 tenths today?!
Why can't he grow up?!

Glad we saw his 'talent' or lack of it today!

I think he was waiting for team order from Renault ..

[ioan]

I didn't know I mean so much to you.

Well, you don't! :laugh:

[ioan]

I think he was waiting for team order from Renault ..

Newsflash to Alonso: Flab has been ousted! ;)

[markabilly]

From the Tweets of Adam Cooper:



Class act. :\

No maybe he wanted to talk to his pitwall folks and shake some fist wit them.
They can make all the excuses they want, but the people who told massa to move over, are now the very same who essentially told fredddie to move it over for vettel....poetic justice i suppose

[ioan]

I have already said that I don't defend Alonso's behaviour. I'm not saying he's a saint. I don't have a problem with people criticising him. What I'm saying is that the anger and hate directed at him is out of all proportion to his behaviour. The example of Webber's behaviour is valid. People are using two standards to judge.

Yes you are right about Webber, however this doesn't change the facts about Alonso. And you know it full well that I am not one who holds back criticism when deserved, Lewis, Kimi, Kubica, Button and even MS has been on my to do list at least once.

[fandango]

Yes you are right about Webber, however this doesn't change the facts about Alonso. And you know it full well that I am not one who holds back criticism when deserved, Lewis, Kimi, Kubica, Button and even MS has been on my to do list at least once.

Well, I think I've given plenty of factual examples in this thread of other situations with other drivers, and they are not treated with anywhere near the same contempt as Alonso is.

[truefan72]

Which probably cost him the race win. But you don't see him complaining, do you?

exactly

[truefan72]

I was never a great fan of Senna, for example. But I don't jump in every time he's mentioned and say he's Senna the cheat because he won one of his chamionships by driving Prost off the road.

The internet and forums where not around then, because if they were, Senna would probably be the most despised character. I never was a senna fan either and trust me, if this forum was around back then, there would have been some epic threads about his actions!

[airshifter]

Well, I think I've given plenty of factual examples in this thread of other situations with other drivers, and they are not treated with anywhere near the same contempt as Alonso is.

I can't say I agree with this. Over the years I've seen lots of drivers take as much or more heat for actions than Alonso is taking here on the forum now. It's all a matter of what they did, how recent it was, and how much people support them regardless.

A good example of this was the people being critical of Hamilton for the pit lane incident with Vettel (Malaysia?). People were all up in arms over it, but at that same race Alonso passed Massa on the pit entry with all four tires over the line designating the racing surface. Since the stewards did not apply a penalty to Alonso, it wasn't an issue for most people.

Another example this year is the Vettel/Webber collision at Turkey. Both drivers took major grief over it, and most people never changed their mind. On a similar note, Heikki Kovalainen was given grief when Webber ran over the back of him.


I often think the amount of contempt expressed towards a driver is proportional to the amount of gloating the people supporting that driver do here on the forums. (This is not directed at you as unlike many you have admitted Alonso is no saint.) But a case is point is Button, and the constant attempts by Saint Devote to make him the second coming of Christ. Myself and many others admitted they had no dislke for Button but felt that it was only a vastly superior car that gave him a title. And many of us would remind him of that on a regular basis until he reduced Button to a human status.


Overall I think Alonso had to probably drive better than either Red Bull driver to come in second in the WDC. Had he done so without the team orders incident and acting as though Petrov owed him something I would be more impressed with that fact.

[truefan72]

This actually the first time I see what happened and you are right... After reading 3 pages of this thread I thought he tried to beat him or something

so you spent a bunch of post criticizing folks and you hadn't even seen the footage. :down:

[airshifter]

The internet and forums where not around then, because if they were, Senna would probably be the most despised character. I never was a senna fan either and trust me, if this forum was around back then, there would have been some epic threads about his actions!

Probably the closest this forum ever got to that was Schumacher threads back in the day! He had a love him or hate him affect on many here it seems, and those threads resulted in quite a few warnings and bannings.

[Dave Stubbings]

Not quite on the same level but what about Hamilton's comments about the Renault of Robert Kubica after the race?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9188433.stm

"They [Red Bull] had some help from Renault by holding us up. It was impossible to get by Kubica he made it as difficult as it could be. I guess that's what happens when you have a couple of 'step-teammates' in the field."

Maybe not on the same level as Alonso but still bitter?

[Mia 01]

Not quite on the same level but what about Hamilton's comments about the Renault of Robert Kubica after the race?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9188433.stm

"They [Red Bull] had some help from Renault by holding us up. It was impossible to get by Kubica he made it as difficult as it could be. I guess that's what happens when you have a couple of 'step-teammates' in the field."

Maybe not on the same level as Alonso but still bitter?

Nah. Lewis is only afraid that he not will get another WDC as long as Sebastian drives in F1.

[rjbetty]

As Ioan said about Hamilton, he was criticised at the time. Tbh I don't see that liegate controversy as being that bad. It was just very very silly of McLaren and Lewis. I'm not the biggest Lewis fan tbh but even I can't hold the lying fiasco against him.

Yeah. I thought that Lewis owned up to being asked to lie by a team member, and he said he couldn't go through with it? Is that how it went?

If he did go through with it, did he then backtrack and say he couldn't go through with it, so owned up?

[Valve Bounce]

What does he want from Petrov?!
Why does he gesticulate?
Where were his 6 tenths today?!
Why can't he grow up?!

Glad we saw his 'talent' or lack of it today!

He thought Petrov was Massa?????? :D

[555-04Q2]

Poor class from Alonso on Sunday :down: Good drive from Petrov though, hopefully he will stay in F1 next season.

[i_max2k2]

The video where Alonso does the gesture towards petrov,

http://www.myvido1.com/gYz4USTxGboRlMwtkVwgTP_f1-2010-abu-dhabi-alonso-argues-with-pet

[CaptainRaiden]

Let me add my ROTFL to this thread. Finally Alonso, karma came back and bit you in your backside. For sure if he'd won it, we would all be saying "Oh, he won because they let him through at Germany," but FORTUNATELY it wasn't to be. Oh I am SO happy!!

My wife asked me why I was so happy? Was it because Vettel won? I said no, it's because Alonso LOST. :p

[TheFamousEccles]

^^

I'm with you, X. Very pleased the cheating, graceless s**te didn't win the WDC. I don't care about the hot-headed Spanish temperament, his lack of class and spine have been demonstrated by his actions time and time again.

That's probably more than 2c, but I'm good for it.

[Dzeidzei]

To be fair, he didn't carry it to the media and said it was a moment of frustration.

Still, you show your true character in defeat. He certainly showed his.

For Ferrari to be able to fcuk it all up like this is the failure of the century. Forza Italia! Get Todt back and boot a few people right now.

[Dzeidzei]

Probably the closest this forum ever got to that was Schumacher threads back in the day! He had a love him or hate him affect on many here it seems, and those threads resulted in quite a few warnings and bannings.

Well, you can only truly love&hate someone who´s on top. Michael being old and slow (and acting as a parking lot) makes him more or less uninteresting nowadays.

[Big Ben]

so you spent a bunch of post criticizing folks and you hadn't even seen the footage. :down:

Please forgive me.

I didn't need to see it. What does this have to to with saying FA has no talent or playing the old '6 tenths' of a second disc yet again? One makes comments about car development in pre-season and smart people bring it up in the middle of the final race 4 years later. Sorry buddy, but that's just stupid beaviour. I needed a couple of laps to see that the ferrari was not fast enough to overtake the renault unless Petrov made a mistake.

[ShiftingGears]

Petrov's swerve was excellent haha

[redson]

He can't change, it's his nature.

Just like you. You will always put your finger on Fred, no matter what he does.

[ArrowsFA1]

i understand he was frustrated, but that was low and pointless. He couldn't pass Petrov, as seeing as Petrov was racing for points and his race seat, i see no reason he should have moved over.
:up:

[RJL25]

I think after one of you blokes have led the WDC coming into the final race and then not been able to win it because your teams strategy was written by a thousand monkeys on a thousand typewriters and you have experienced that frustration first hand, then you might be in a position to criticise Freds heat of the moment, incredibly emotional immediate reaction.

[redson]

Come on, drivers are human beings and they are emotional (remember Senna and Irvine Suzuka 93? Remember Schuey and DC in Spa?). He had spend 40 laps behind Petrov and obviously he was frustrated. So making a gesture makes him so bad person? No one of us will never know what it is to lose a WC in the last race so leave him alone

[Robinho]

don't get me wrong, Alonso had every reason to be pi$$ed, the team screwed him out of the championship when he was in the perfect position, but Petrov was not the one who deserved any of that anger. Alonso criticised him for being agressive, yet it was he who was off the road, 3, 4 times trying to make impossible moves.

if he'd punched the Ferrari management for bringing him in when they knew he'd get stuck behind runners who had made their only stop already then i would be right behind him!

[markabilly]

don't get me wrong, Alonso had every reason to be pi$$ed, the team screwed him out of the championship when he was in the perfect position, but Petrov was not the one who deserved any of that anger. Alonso criticised him for being agressive, yet it was he who was off the road, 3, 4 times trying to make impossible moves.

if he'd punched the Ferrari management for bringing him in when they knew he'd get stuck behind runners who had made their only stop already then i would be right behind him!
Yep, for sure.
Besides, I would think that display only gave petrov even more reason to celebrate, as in "got you...."

[fandango]

I did enjoy Petrov's reaction though. The Russian had just completed one of his best races this season and was probably pretty happy with himself and then Alonso comes alongside and gestures.

The car nudge was a blunt way of saying "get over yourself". :D

It's funny how we can have such different interpretations of the same images. I thought Petrov was just avoiding going off track. I didn't think he was serving at Alonso at all, it seemed more that he was so surprised at Alonso that he nearly drifted off track. Who knows...

[Bagwan]

"He drove very well ...no mistakes ."

Who said that ?

[Sonic]

Just like you. You will always put your finger on Fred, no matter what he does.

Well if Alonso stopped being a first class muppet it would help. I'm always a little perplexed when his constant petulance is defended.

[markabilly]

the thing is that if FA had stuck his nose in, I am about 99 percent certain that if petrov saw it, he would have gone off track before they would have had contact.

No way, would he want to go back to Italy, or worse, face possible HUGE sanctions, for taking out the guy leading the WDC

sooooooooooooooo, I think Fred should have been looking in the mirror when he started the fist shaking

Even in the last couple of laps, he should have gone for it, real hard, as he had nothing left worth having......

[AndyL]

It's funny how we can have such different interpretations of the same images. I thought Petrov was just avoiding going off track. I didn't think he was serving at Alonso at all, it seemed more that he was so surprised at Alonso that he nearly drifted off track. Who knows...

That's how I saw it too - as Alonso was busy giving hand signals and Petrov was raising is hands in a "WTF!?" gesture, Petrov started to drift off the track.

[wedge]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9188316.stm

But asked whether he felt Petrov was in some way to blame, Alonso replied: "I tried to pass him once and he protected like it was the last lap, in the last race in the championship, fighting both for the championship, so he was very aggressive.

"But he drove very well, he made no mistakes. I think next year we will try again."


Blame yourself or your team, not the opposition when all they did was their job.

Blame the team on the radio let alone in public and you still come across a selfish 2@.


So now you think that Petrov is as good as Kubica? I wouldn't say teh opposite but I do not remember people stating this until now.

Also Hamilton has tried several times to get by, while Alonso had troubles getting close to Petrov even though he was all over the place and constantly outbraking himself.

IMO Alonso is bad in one to one racing (he's been bumping into other cars quite a lot this season, a bit like Alguersuari) and he's not the fastest out there either. If it weren't for team orders and 3 mechanical failures for Vettel Alonso would have never had the slightest chance to the title.

Re-read my post again. I said the Renaults were good, nothing about Petrov being better than Kubica or vice versa.


If you were paying attention to the race there was an excerpt of Hamilton radio call to pit because he ruined his LF tyre ie. flat spotted trying to get past Kubica. There was also a replay Hamilton going off track at the penultimate right-handers, same as Alonso.

[gloomyDAY]

I like how Petrov steered into Alonso just to show he wasn't intimidated by the Spaniard's antics. :D
Alonso even had to steer away from the Renault in order to keep from touching.

[Mia 01]

Even if Alonso had overtaken Petrov he would only be sixth, he needed to be fourth.

I´m not sure Nico would have letted him by.

[V12]

Not a big deal really, I think his post race antics were pure heat-of-the-moment frustration, and if I were Petrov I'd hardly have taken offence, in fact it's kind of the ultimate backhanded compliment in a way, that the double champion chasing #3 couldn't get around him.

Oh well, next year he and everyone else will have arbitrarily adjustable rear wings to help them past people, that'll make things so much more exciting won't it? /sarcasm

[rjbetty]

Yay! Thank you Petrov, for what you did on Sunday. You stopped Fernando benefitting from the ill-gotten gain from Germany and ensured a just result. You drove really well, and also didn't let him bully you. You had every right to race, and race very well you did for all those laps. Well done.

[truefan72]

I think after one of you blokes have led the WDC coming into the final race and then not been able to win it because your teams strategy was written by a thousand monkeys on a thousand typewriters and you have experienced that frustration first hand, then you might be in a position to criticise Freds heat of the moment, incredibly emotional immediate reaction.

nonsense, then he should have been waiving his fists at the paddock and or direct his anger at his team , not the guy he was unable to pass. Just like hockenheim. He has a sense of entitlement that is absurd imo. you are paid to race and not have guys move over for you. I detected a little bit of that frustration by his team as well when they told him that he's got the talent so use it. I bet you a bottom dollar that he was complaining over the radio and asking the team to go talk to renault to let him by. And the decision to come in was probably a 50/50 thing. I guy like Alonso is not going to follow the team strategy without his consent. He usually asks the team where the other guys are on the track, gap, etc. so he knew what he was doing.

[fandango]

Well if Alonso stopped being a first class muppet it would help. I'm always a little perplexed when his constant petulance is defended.

If that's the case, then why do we not have three or four threads about Hamilton, who claimed Massa tried to run him off the road? It was just as self-centred and petulant as Alonso. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we don't have those threads, but there is a huge double standard going on here.

[Daniel]

If that's the case, then why do we not have three or four threads about Hamilton, who claimed Massa tried to run him off the road? It was just as self-centred and petulant as Alonso. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we don't have those threads, but there is a huge double standard going on here.
Any particular reason you feel the need to go to the ends of the earth for Alonso. Do you want us to say that we're all racist and that we don't like Spanish people, or will you simply accept the truth that the way Alonso has acted through his career just makes people hate him......

[fandango]

Perhaps its because the Hamilton and Massa fans amongst us have got over it and in the grand scheme of things it was pretty insignificant as neither driver suffered any damage, or had their qualifying times affected. I don't think Massa was being self centred and petulant like Alonso at all. It was a misunderstanding between the two drivers and there was no harm done. :)


Eh, hello? I meant that Hamilton was being self-centred and petulant by claiming Massa tried to drive him off the road.

And neither Alonso nor Petrov suffered any damage from Alonso's gesturing. And as an Alonso fan I got over it. I don't, however, claim Hamilton is public enemy no. 1 because of his actions, even though he one of my least favourite drivers, excellent driver though he is. It's the haters, who drag out every past sin every time that I don't agree with.

[race aficionado]

It's the haters, who drag out every past sin every time that I don't agree with.

Hating sucks.
:s mokin:

[donKey jote]

:up:

[donKey jote]

Any particular reason you feel the need to go to the ends of the earth for Alonso. Do you want us to say that we're all racist and that [b]we/b] don't like Spanish people, or will you simply accept the truth that the way Alonso has acted through his career just makes people hate him......
Any particular reason you feel the need to go to the ends of the earth against Alonso, the big-bad-boo man you all love to hate ever since being fed storms in your teacups by your tabloids way back in 2007 ?
So resentful... get over it, we all have :laugh:

[Daniel]

Any particular reason you feel the need to go to the ends of the earth against Alonso, the big-bad-boo man you all love to hate ever since being fed storms in your teacups by your tabloids way back in 2007 ?
So resentful... get over it, we all have :laugh:

I'm over it now :p

I'm a forgiving person. If someone gets involved in something once it's not a big thing, if they do it twice, well people can make mistakes..... but Alonso had been involved in too much crap if I'm honest and I just didn't like the fact that Ferrari chucked Kimi out for Alonso.

[fandango]

Any particular reason you feel the need to go to the ends of the earth for Alonso. Do you want us to say that we're all racist and that we don't like Spanish people, or will you simply accept the truth that the way Alonso has acted through his career just makes people hate him......

I don't think you're being fair to me there, Daniel. I have said on more than one post that I don't defend Alonso's gestures to Petrov, but that I think the reaction of the Alonso haters (for want of a better term) is disproportionate. I can't stand the b**s**t that comes out of Hamilton's mouth, for example, but I don't begrudge him that he said Massa was trying to run him off the track. He was totally out of order. I shouted at the TV at the time, but that's it. And this is a driver that was caught lying to the stewards, and received at least two reprimands this season.

I can see that you consider what you say to be "the truth" about Alonso's actions. You're not the only one to say that. I hope you can appreciate that it can be seen as rather arrogant in itself to claim that your own perspective is simply "the truth", and that's it. Please understand, I'm not calling you arrogant, but nor am I saying that my perspective is the only truth there is.

I don't think that people are being racist. Those labels are often simply argumentative shortcuts. If I still lived in Ireland, and got my F1 coverage through the British press, I imagine I'd have a similar opinion as you regarding Alonso. But there's more than one side to these things. (Curiously, I often find myself defending Hamilton's quality as a driver in pub discussions over here.)

Has Alonso really acted so badly all through his career? Was he so bad before 2007? I don't remember it being a big discussion before 2007 whether the great McLaren team should take on such a dubious character. The main discussion I remember was whether they should have De La Rosa or this new rookie Hamilton as his teammate (I thought they should have gone for De La Rosa, the Spanish Brundle, so I'm happy to put up my hand and say I was totally wrong there). So, while I wouldn't call it racist what the Brits say about Alonso, at least the Spanish who hate Hamilton are honest that they don't like him because he was against their beloved Alonso, whereas the ones on the other side seem to suddenly know "the truth". Sorry about the rambling post, if it's been interesting enough to read this far, that is :)

[fandango]

....I just didn't like the fact that Ferrari chucked Kimi out for Alonso.

That's funny, I've never really liked Kimi, and I always thought he was just wrong at Ferrari, so I was glad they turfed him out.

[CNR]

Alonso's gesturing I hope he cops a fine for bringing the sport in to disrpute

[Daniel]

Alonso's gesturing I hope he cops a fine for bringing the sport in to disrpute
Lets not be silly here. How many drivers (rightly or wrongly) have gestured at other drivers before. I may seem as if I'm keen to string Fernando up if he so much as wears mismatched socks but that's just stupid.

[fandango]

Its also worth mentioning that Hamilton wrongly accused Massa of running him off the road in a TV interview in a manner which we see regularly when there is a dispute between drivers. Its not everyday we see drivers pulling alongside other drivers and making rude gestures infront of the camera's of the world. Before anyone say's "but Mclaren drivers have done this in the past"... I'm aware of that and I don't condone that either. :)

But you've said it right there. I only heard Hamilton complain on the radio to his team about Massa. Alonso communicated directly with Petrov, and then said it was nothing to the cameras, and recognised that Petrov had done nothing wrong. So if you've got a problem with someone is it not better to talk directly to them? Obviously, not on camera would be better. And I wouldn't call Alonso's gesture rude, in the sense of one or two fingers - he was expressing frustration or annoyance.

Now I don't think of this as a Hamilton vs Alonso issue - I only mentioned that incident to cite something recent.

[wedge]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: F1 is called the Piranha Club for no reason.

To some extent you have to be an arrogant so and so if you want to be successful.

Not only do you have to be quick but you need to impose yourself within the team.

[DexDexter]

I don't think you're being fair to me there, Daniel. I have said on more than one post that I don't defend Alonso's gestures to Petrov, but that I think the reaction of the Alonso haters (for want of a better term) is disproportionate. I can't stand the b**s**t that comes out of Hamilton's mouth, for example, but I don't begrudge him that he said Massa was trying to run him off the track. He was totally out of order. I shouted at the TV at the time, but that's it. And this is a driver that was caught lying to the stewards, and received at least two reprimands this season.

I can see that you consider what you say to be "the truth" about Alonso's actions. You're not the only one to say that. I hope you can appreciate that it can be seen as rather arrogant in itself to claim that your own perspective is simply "the truth", and that's it. Please understand, I'm not calling you arrogant, but nor am I saying that my perspective is the only truth there is.

I don't think that people are being racist. Those labels are often simply argumentative shortcuts. If I still lived in Ireland, and got my F1 coverage through the British press, I imagine I'd have a similar opinion as you regarding Alonso. But there's more than one side to these things. (Curiously, I often find myself defending Hamilton's quality as a driver in pub discussions over here.)

Has Alonso really acted so badly all through his career? Was he so bad before 2007? I don't remember it being a big discussion before 2007 whether the great McLaren team should take on such a dubious character. The main discussion I remember was whether they should have De La Rosa or this new rookie Hamilton as his teammate (I thought they should have gone for De La Rosa, the Spanish Brundle, so I'm happy to put up my hand and say I was totally wrong there). So, while I wouldn't call it racist what the Brits say about Alonso, at least the Spanish who hate Hamilton are honest that they don't like him because he was against their beloved Alonso, whereas the ones on the other side seem to suddenly know "the truth". Sorry about the rambling post, if it's been interesting enough to read this far, that is :)

I don't think Alonso himself is the whole reason for this "hatred" against him. It's a combination of many things: Being involved in too many scandals, the Mclaren thing, having Spanish press supporting him (writing terrible, untrue, things about his predecessor Räikkönen, for example), a hot temper which people can nowadays hear on the radio during the broadcasts. Couple that with the impression that he bought his way on to Ferrari with a Spanish bank in the expense of a driver who, although disliked by some, had/has a huge fanbase.

[Big Ben]

Couple that with the impression that he bought his way on to Ferrari with a Spanish bank in the expense of a driver who, although disliked by some, had/has a huge fanbase.

You are fooling yourself if you believe Ferrari only got FA for money.

[CaptainRaiden]

You are fooling yourself if you believe Ferrari only got FA for money.

They pretty much did. I've listened to the FIAT Group's (which owns Ferrari BTW) recent third quarter 2010 earnings press conference, and the CEO, Sergio Marchionne was asked by analysts about Ferrari being in financial deep waters since the end of 2008 when the global recession hit, because of dwindling car sales, and so of course they had to cut costs from their F1 operations or get some kind of stimulus. At which point he mentioned the Santander money, and that he trusts Mr. Montezemelo to do the "right thing" and that so far he hasn't disappointed.

Do not think for one second that Alonso made it to Ferrari riding on his "big talent" alone. Santander brought in a truckload of money ONLY IF Ferrari signed Alonso. How do you think they managed to pay Kimi's one year salary for ending his contract early AND pay Alonso his salary too? No company in their right mind would do this. Duh!

[Big Ben]

They pretty much did. I've listened to the FIAT Group's (which owns Ferrari BTW) recent third quarter 2010 earnings press conference, and the CEO, Sergio Marchionne was asked by analysts about Ferrari being in financial deep waters since the end of 2008 when the global recession hit, because of dwindling car sales, and so of course they had to cut costs from their F1 operations or get some kind of stimulus. At which point he mentioned the Santander money, and that he trusts Mr. Montezemelo to do the "right thing" and that so far he hasn't disappointed.

Do not think for one second that Alonso made it to Ferrari riding on his "big talent" alone. Santander brought in a truckload of money ONLY IF Ferrari signed Alonso. How do you think they managed to pay Kimi's one year salary for ending his contract early AND pay Alonso his salary too? No company in their right mind would do this. Duh!

That means for the same amount of money they would have taken you too, right? Duh.

[CaptainRaiden]

That means for the same amount of money they would have taken you too, right? Duh.

Yeah, if I had a huge Indian bank paying insane money for "national pride." Sure. :p

But are you seriously comparing a forum poster with Kimi Raikkonen, the 2007 WDC? Do you think if Nokia was willing to pay the same amount of money as Santander, they would have let Kimi go? :rolleyes:

[Big Ben]

Yeah, if I had a huge Indian bank paying insane money for "national pride." Sure. :p

But are you seriously comparing a forum poster with Kimi Raikkonen, the 2007 WDC? Do you think if Nokia was willing to pay the same amount of money as Santander, they would have let Kimi go? :rolleyes:

($ xx,xxx,xxx + FA)>($ xx,xxx,xxx + KR)=>bye bye kimi

They might have kept him if Nokia would have paid enough to compensate KR's lack of interest.

[CaptainRaiden]

($ xx,xxx,xxx + FA)>($ xx,xxx,xxx + KR)=>bye bye kimi

They might have kept him if Nokia would have paid enough to compensate KR's lack of interest.

LOL. So, you actually think that if KR had the financial backing, Ferrari still would have sent him on his honeymoon year to WRC with one year's pay, some 30 million euros, just to get Santander, Alonso and his "six tenths" onboard? :laugh: Either this is naivety reaching new levels, or the world through an Alonso fan's beer goggles.

[N4D13]

Il Corriere della Sera has published Alonso's radio transcription. Here (http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/conversacion/Alonso/Ferrari/parada/fatal/Abu/Dabi/elpepudep/20101117elpepudep_10/Tes)'s the link to El País, as I don't really understand Italian. :D Anyway, I'm translating it from Spanish into English.

Lap 9: Stella tells Alonso "You've been three tenths faster than Webber. Felipe is also coming closer."

Lap 12: Stella informs Alonso: "Webber has pitted and Vettel is losing ground to Hamilton". Alonso answers: "If you believe that Felipe can pass him in a lap, send him in". Pit wall's answer: "We're thinking about it, concentrate on Button".

Lap 14: "How's Felipe?", Alonso asks about Massa's pitstop. "He's come out behind Webber", the pit wall replies.

Lap 15: Ferrari: "OK, come in now". Alonso replies: "OK". Pit wall adds: "You'll come out near Webber. In front of him".

Lap 17: Alonso asks: "What's the situation?". Stella answers: "We need to overtake the Renault in front, he won't be stopping. And there's also Rosberg".

Lap 22: Stella: "I know you're giving everything, but passing Petrov is critical".

[Dr. Krogshöj]

"We need to overtake the Renault in front, he won't be stopping. And there's also Rosberg".

I wonder what Fernando said when he heard that. We'll never know because he probably didn't push the radio button. But it's a WTF moment. The whole thing's ridiculous, isn't it? But I'm glad Vettel won.

[Big Ben]

LOL. So, you actually think that if KR had the financial backing, Ferrari still would have sent him on his honeymoon year to WRC with one year's pay, some 30 million euros, just to get Santander, Alonso and his "six tenths" onboard? :laugh: Either this is naivety reaching new levels, or the world through an Alonso fan's beer goggles.

I used to think to opposite but I've come to the conclusion in the last few years that FA is much better than KR and everything proves it. Implying that I am just a fanatical fan is pretty low.

[truefan72]

I used to think to opposite but I've come to the conclusion in the last few years that FA is much better than KR and everything proves it. Implying that I am just a fanatical fan is pretty low.

sorry but what is pretty low is your reasoning.

Ferrari have committed around $41 million dollars to Kimi to leave the team and F1 for 2 years and you think that the reason he is not in the team is because he could not wrestle sponsorship dollars from Nokia to keep him in the seat?
:rolleyes:

[CaptainRaiden]

I used to think to opposite but I've come to the conclusion in the last few years that FA is much better than KR and everything proves it. Implying that I am just a fanatical fan is pretty low.

Well, what you implied in your previous posts was actually quite ridiculous, and that's not how a company acts, especially one which has to answer to their holding company which is into all of this purely for business. How do you explain paying a driver 30-35 million Euros for NOT driving? If Santander wasn't bringing in this truckload of money for 3 years, Ferrari would have rather waited a year to let Kimi's contract run out.

Secondly, Kimi won the championship in his first season for Ferrari, which was the second best car that season, same situation as this year, and that is something which Alonso hasn't done. ;) Although I'll give him the credit that he came pretty close.

[Big Ben]

sorry but what is pretty low is your reasoning.

Ferrari have committed around $41 million dollars to Kimi to leave the team and F1 for 2 years and you think that the reason he is not in the team is because he could not wrestle sponsorship dollars from Nokia to keep him in the seat?
:rolleyes:

I can't argue with numbers made up while meditating on the throne.

[Big Ben]

Well, what you implied in your previous posts was actually quite ridiculous, and that's not how a company acts, especially one which has to answer to their holding company which is into all of this purely for business. How do you explain paying a driver 30-35 million Euros for NOT driving? If Santander wasn't bringing in this truckload of money for 3 years, Ferrari would have rather waited a year to let Kimi's contract run out.

Secondly, Kimi won the championship in his first season for Ferrari, which was the second best car that season, same situation as this year, and that is something which Alonso hasn't done. ;) Although I'll give him the credit that he came pretty close.

You should go counsel Botin. He obviously is lost without you :rolleyes: .

Sefondly, I would enter this argument if I had half the age I have.

[RJL25]

blah blah we already know all that, we want to know what he said after he found out that his goose was cooked!

[Duchess]

To be fair, I would've been pretty ragey at the end of the Abu Dhabi GP if I was Fernando Alonso too. I don't blame the guy for getting emotional because I could see myself doing the same for a bit to blow off steam. After the race when he calmed down Alonso did come out to say Petrov drove very well and fairly so I don't really see what the hullabaloo is about? Sh!t happens, you deal with it. Pretty sure all the drivers know this.

[keysersoze]

I haven't read any of the pages of this thread, so I apologize if someone already pointed this out, but calling Alonso a baby reminds me of the greatest all-time hissy-fit: when Mika Hakkinen spun at, IIRC, Monza, and hopped out of his car clutching his helmet as he raced behind the Armco, and into the trees, to weep. An utter disgrace. :p :

[Valve Bounce]

I can't argue with numbers made up while meditating on the throne.

You can access this forum on your PC while sitting on your throne? I bet you admire my sig then. :D

[Big Ben]

You can access this forum on your PC while sitting on your throne? I bet you admire my sig then. :D

I know... it's quite a disgrace and a shame, once I used to be reading books while in there, now I read about how KR is better than FA and MS because neither of them won the title for Ferrari in their first season. :rolleyes:

[CaptainRaiden]

You should go counsel Botin. He obviously is lost without you :rolleyes: .

Sefondly, I would enter this argument if I had half the age I have.

Look, I know as an Alonso fan, the whole Alonso going to Ferrari thing looks all rosey and amazing, but unfortunately that's not how it happens in the real world. And Botin knew exactly what he wanted, when his bank's number one requirement for sponsoring Ferrari was a Spanish number one driver. A no-brainer really. If you still seriously think Ferrari truncated Kimi's contract early and paid him one year's salary just to get the Amazing Alonso onboard, especially in these times of recession when you have manufacturers quitting right and left, you're in dreamland buddy.

That's as much as you're going to get out of me on this idiotic topic. ;)

[CaptainRaiden]

I haven't read any of the pages of this thread, so I apologize if someone already pointed this out, but calling Alonso a baby reminds me of the greatest all-time hissy-fit: when Mika Hakkinen spun at, IIRC, Monza, and hopped out of his car clutching his helmet as he raced behind the Armco, and into the trees, to weep. An utter disgrace. :p :

Right. There's one HUGE difference though. Mika was sad over his own mistake, not blaming anybody else, just distraught over a stupid mistake while he was comfortably leading. He wasn't gesticulating at another driver, racing for ANOTHER team who was fairly defending his racing position. This is like comparing apples with oranges.

Alonso has to understand that not all cars on the circuit are Ferraris, and not all drivers are his lapdog, i.e. Massa. Probably then he would calm down.

[DexDexter]

You are fooling yourself if you believe Ferrari only got FA for money.

Not only for money, I didn't write that. "Impression" is the word I used. Santander was a factor though, that's for sure. They (Ferrari) were not happy with Räikkönen and wanted Fernando who had a sponsor willing to pay for Räikkönen's exit....

[DexDexter]

I haven't read any of the pages of this thread, so I apologize if someone already pointed this out, but calling Alonso a baby reminds me of the greatest all-time hissy-fit: when Mika Hakkinen spun at, IIRC, Monza, and hopped out of his car clutching his helmet as he raced behind the Armco, and into the trees, to weep. An utter disgrace. :p :

Your logic is really odd. You're comparing a guy who weeps because he made a silly mistake to a guy who raises his fist at people who don't let him pass in a racing situation. Well, one cannot expect too much from all the posters....

[Sonic]

blah blah we already know all that, we want to know what he said after he found out that his goose was cooked!

x2

[Big Ben]

***** ** ****. ** **** ** ** ***** *** ** *****. ** **** ** ** *****. *****. Y ahora mi titulo esta en las manos de este **** ******. *** ** *****. or something to that effect.

[Dave B]

I haven't read any of the pages of this thread, so I apologize if someone already pointed this out, but calling Alonso a baby reminds me of the greatest all-time hissy-fit: when Mika Hakkinen spun at, IIRC, Monza, and hopped out of his car clutching his helmet as he raced behind the Armco, and into the trees, to weep. An utter disgrace. :p :
The :p makes me question whether you're being serious, but Mika went to what he thought was a private location in the trees to cry in private, to emerge later having got the emotion out of his system. I'd say he acted with total dignity; it was only the presence of a helicopter that revealed the cracks to his detatched persona.

[donKey jote]

mecagüenlaputamadrequelosparioatosapedos ?

[keysersoze]

Your logic is really odd. You're comparing a guy who weeps because he made a silly mistake to a guy who raises his fist at people who don't let him pass in a racing situation. Well, one cannot expect too much from all the posters....

I didn't compare them. I merely said it reminded me of Hakkinen's girl-moment. Nothing illogical there.

[CaptainRaiden]

I didn't compare them. I merely said it reminded me of Hakkinen's girl-moment. Nothing illogical there.

So, going by this logic, MS crying when he equaled Senna's record was also super-girly, so was Massa bawling at Brazil in 2008 after losing the title, and so was Vettel crying on the radio and on the podium at Abu Dhabi as well, right?

[jens]

I don't see, why should genuine expressions of human feelings be considered as "girly". More likely we should enjoy the purity of feelings.

[N4D13]

mecagüenlaputamadrequelosparioatosapedos ?
Most people would not want to know what this means, so, please, don't bother asking. :D

[donKey jote]

old asturian I think, isn't it? ;) :p
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[Big Ben]

So, going by this logic, MS crying when he equaled Senna's record was also super-girly, so was Massa bawling at Brazil in 2008 after losing the title, and so was Vettel crying on the radio and on the podium at Abu Dhabi as well, right?

No, not right. MS' crying was as manly as it gets... like in really really fake :laugh: basescu crying :laugh: . About Vettel, I don´t how it was. In the last couple of months I've did my best to avoid all his radio cammunications after qualyfing or racing

[ioan]

Just like you. You will always put your finger on Fred, no matter what he does.

So what? Does it hurt you?! Good, very good! :rotflmao:

[keysersoze]

So, going by this logic, MS crying when he equaled Senna's record was also super-girly, so was Massa bawling at Brazil in 2008 after losing the title, and so was Vettel crying on the radio and on the podium at Abu Dhabi as well, right?

To me, it's about context.

MS crying at equaling Senna: a sign of respect, and entirely acceptable

Massa cying at losing the title: somewhat girly

Vettel crying at winning the title: extremely girly

[ioan]

To me, it's about context.

MS crying at equaling Senna: a sign of respect, and entirely acceptable

Massa cying at losing the title: somewhat girly

Vettel crying at winning the title: extremely girly

You've got the contexts all wrong.

[Valve Bounce]

So what? Does it hurt you?! Good, very good! :rotflmao:

You're suppose to stick you middle finger up at him, not put your finger on him. Let's get our priorities right. :p :

[keysersoze]

You've got the contexts all wrong.

So looking at your sig, are you going to "back it up" or is that some sort of joke.

If the context of MS weeping wasn't equaling Senna's record, what was the context?

If the context of Massa weeping wasn't because the title slipped away from him on the last lap, what was it?

If the context of Vettel weeping wasn't because he won the title, what was it?

Do you even know what "context" means? :rolleyes:

[rjbetty]

I wonder what Fernando said when he heard that. We'll never know because he probably didn't push the radio button. But it's a WTF moment. The whole thing's ridiculous, isn't it? But I'm glad Vettel won.

THIS IS RIDICULOUS!!!

[DexDexter]

To me, it's about context.

MS crying at equaling Senna: a sign of respect, and entirely acceptable

Massa cying at losing the title: somewhat girly

Vettel crying at winning the title: extremely girly

What's bad in being girly? Do you have some sort of an identity problem? :D

[CaptainRaiden]

What's bad in being girly? Do you have some sort of an identity problem? :D

^ This.


To me, it's about context.

MS crying at equaling Senna: a sign of respect, and entirely acceptable

Massa cying at losing the title: somewhat girly

Vettel crying at winning the title: extremely girly

Context? :confused: What's wrong with a man crying? Or is that what the "society" says is girly? What's wrong with a sportsman showing extreme passion towards his sport? Do you know how nervous these guys get during a race weekend? It's only normal to succumb to human emotions.

And why the double standard towards MS crying? "A sign of respect, and entirely acceptable" :rolleyes: (come on!). Judge him with this same homophobic brute/neanderthal viewpoint like the others.

[jens]

The bottom line probably is that even if Ferrari didn't simply forget about Rosberg/Petrov, they were simply underestimating them. Probably they were thinking that it would be easier to overtake Rosberg/Petrov on those old worn tyres than it would be to overtake Webber, which kind of situation must be first and foremost avoided. For Ferrari there were only four rivals on the track (Red Bulls and McLaren) and they seemed to be thinking that it would be a done job if they managed to beat one of them. When Alonso got stuck behind Petrov for long, it may have come as a surprise to the Ferrari squad.

[jens]

To me, it's about context.

MS crying at equaling Senna: a sign of respect, and entirely acceptable

Massa cying at losing the title: somewhat girly

Vettel crying at winning the title: extremely girly

I don't understand, why should a genuine expression of human feelings be considered as "girly". We should be glad about the purity of feelings. Which is better than hiding them or being fake.

[Valve Bounce]

I don't understand, why should a genuine expression of human feelings be considered as "girly". We should be glad about the purity of feelings. Which is better than hiding them or being fake.

When St Kilda lost the Grand Final replay, there were lotsa Saints crying on the field. I'd like to see some guy yell at them that they are being girly. :p :

[Mia 01]

I don't understand, why should a genuine expression of human feelings be considered as "girly". We should be glad about the purity of feelings. Which is better than hiding them or being fake.

As I see it, alonsos first acting wasn´t a fake, those words thereafter was.

[Retro Formula 1]

First actions were human emotion. Subsequent actions were corporate speak.

Alonso knows that Petrov was doing his job but that doesn't stop him getting frustrated. If a warden tickets your car for being on a double yellow, it's hardly the wardens fault you parked there although you might be annoyed and frustrated.

Just what has Alonso done wrong apart from being a little emotional?

[keysersoze]

^ This.



Context? :confused: What's wrong with a man crying? Or is that what the "society" says is girly? What's wrong with a sportsman showing extreme passion towards his sport? Do you know how nervous these guys get during a race weekend? It's only normal to succumb to human emotions.

And why the double standard towards MS crying? "A sign of respect, and entirely acceptable" :rolleyes: (come on!). Judge him with this same homophobic brute/neanderthal viewpoint like the others.

It seems when YOU get frustrated you resort to name-calling. Your inability to remain composed under pressure makes you seem, well, girly. :D

[CaptainRaiden]

It seems when YOU get frustrated you resort to name-calling. Your inability to remain composed under pressure makes you seem, well, girly. :D

Lately I've seen more hormonal females or insecure fellas acting VERY composed, all tough and macho, pointing fingers at people calling them girly, seriously. ;)

[Storm]

jens talks a lot of sense, as does donkey ;)

[fandango]

The bottom line probably is that even if Ferrari didn't simply forget about Rosberg/Petrov, they were simply underestimating them. Probably they were thinking that it would be easier to overtake Rosberg/Petrov on those old worn tyres than it would be to overtake Webber, which kind of situation must be first and foremost avoided. For Ferrari there were only four rivals on the track (Red Bulls and McLaren) and they seemed to be thinking that it would be a done job if they managed to beat one of them. When Alonso got stuck behind Petrov for long, it may have come as a surprise to the Ferrari squad.

Also, they thought the soft tyres would degrade more, and if they had then the McLarens and Vettel would have been either behind Alonso or not far enough in front to take the WDC away from him. The strategy was valid, but wrong.

[Bagwan]

One has to assume that they have simulations that try to estimate the rivals capabilities , and most likely scenarios .
Given that , and the fact that Webber brushed the wall , coming in earlier than expected , the decision was further muddled .
They simply didn't expect it so early .

They underestimated the smooth "pool table" track , that F duct on the Renault , and , of course , Petrov .

[rjbetty]

It's kinda funny when people talk about Alonso's character because no-one cared before 2007. He was also that way at Renault with Fisi, although it was much less obvious. It's only when it's against Hamilton it became a problem to anybody. Is that true?

[DexDexter]

First actions were human emotion. Subsequent actions were corporate speak.

Alonso knows that Petrov was doing his job but that doesn't stop him getting frustrated. If a warden tickets your car for being on a double yellow, it's hardly the wardens fault you parked there although you might be annoyed and frustrated.

Just what has Alonso done wrong apart from being a little emotional?

Blamed another driver for his team's and own mistake. If other drivers can behave, why not Fernando Alonso?

[Retro Formula 1]

Blamed another driver for his team's and own mistake. If other drivers can behave, why not Fernando Alonso?

No big deal really is it. Just heat of the moment stuff. Petrov should be inwardly pleased as he won this battle and got one over a fellow driver.

[DexDexter]

No big deal really is it. Just heat of the moment stuff. Petrov should be inwardly pleased as he won this battle and got one over a fellow driver.

Yep, to me this topic is a bit old.

[ioan]

The bottom line probably is that even if Ferrari didn't simply forget about Rosberg/Petrov, they were simply underestimating them. Probably they were thinking that it would be easier to overtake Rosberg/Petrov on those old worn tyres than it would be to overtake Webber, which kind of situation must be first and foremost avoided. For Ferrari there were only four rivals on the track (Red Bulls and McLaren) and they seemed to be thinking that it would be a done job if they managed to beat one of them. When Alonso got stuck behind Petrov for long, it may have come as a surprise to the Ferrari squad.

IMO Ferrari's mistake was that they overestimated Alonso.

[ioan]

So looking at your sig, are you going to "back it up" or is that some sort of joke.

If the context of MS weeping wasn't equaling Senna's record, what was the context?

If the context of Massa weeping wasn't because the title slipped away from him on the last lap, what was it?

If the context of Vettel weeping wasn't because he won the title, what was it?

Do you even know what "context" means? :rolleyes:

And you never cried?! :rolleyes:

[ioan]

Context? :confused: What's wrong with a man crying? Or is that what the "society" says is girly? What's wrong with a sportsman showing extreme passion towards his sport? Do you know how nervous these guys get during a race weekend? It's only normal to succumb to human emotions.

And why the double standard towards MS crying? "A sign of respect, and entirely acceptable" :rolleyes: (come on!). Judge him with this same homophobic brute/neanderthal viewpoint like the others.

:up:

[ioan]

It's kinda funny when people talk about Alonso's character because no-one cared before 2007. He was also that way at Renault with Fisi, although it was much less obvious. It's only when it's against Hamilton it became a problem to anybody. Is that true?

What part of your post does your question refer to?!

I never liked the guy, so it has nothing to do with Hamilton whom I didn't like either back in 2007.

[jas123f1]

I take your point, but those things happen with so many drivers, and have happened so much over the years, but people seem to hold a special little corner of hate in their heart for Alonso.

I personally must say, that I liked Alonso earlier much more, but today there are so many things in his career (too much b*** s***) that I’m more sceptic against him today, despite the fact that he is very good driver.

I was hoping (and I’m pleased today) that Ferrari wouldn’t get any championships this year. First because they used team orders too early in the season (against Felipe) and because they used money - Santander millions - to pay out one of their biggest competitors (Kimi) from the greed. Actually Kimi was one of the best paid driver in F1, even though he was driving in Rally..
So - I’m happy that they didn’t succeed to take any title - in that, “in my opinion unsportsmanlike” way., I think it’s very good for the sport..

Next season.. if they give same possibilities to both drivers I have no doubts if Ferrari gets a title or even two – but I will never be a Ferrari fan, there has been so much b*** s*** ..

It was fantastic to see how Red Bull team made their job this year and got maximum results at last. What a difference compared to Ferrari..

[truefan72]

It's kinda funny when people talk about Alonso's character because no-one cared before 2007. He was also that way at Renault with Fisi, although it was much less obvious. It's only when it's against Hamilton it became a problem to anybody. Is that true?

trust me, many knew then but it has gotten worse over time.

[Roamy]

Alonso is clearly the best and fastest driver in F1. Period end of story.

[airshifter]

Alonso is clearly the best and fastest driver in F1. Period end of story.

Just ask Felipe, they remind him on the radio all the time. :laugh:

[i_max2k2]

Alonso is clearly the best and fastest driver in F1. Period end of story.

If this was a joke it made my day!

[DexDexter]

Alonso is clearly the best and fastest driver in F1. Period end of story.

Priceless. Jean-Denis Deletraz is the best driver who has ever driven an f1 car. End of story. No need to explain one's view. :rolleyes:

[ioan]

Alonso is clearly the best and fastest driver in F1. Period end of story.

:laugh: Yeah we saw it last week how fast he is! :rotflmao:

Certainly the fastest to throw his toys out of the pram, he's got no competition in this specialty of his! :laugh:

[ioan]

Alonso is clearly the best and fastest driver in F1. Period end of story.

:laugh: Yeah we saw it last week how fast he is! :rotflmao:

Certainly the fastest to throw his toys out of the pram, he's got no competition in this specialty of his! :laugh:


Priceless. Jean-Denis Deletraz is the best driver who has ever driven an f1 car. End of story. No need to explain one's view. :rolleyes:

When did fousto (aka roamy) explain anything?! I certainly don't remember that ever happening! :D




Alonso is clearly the best and fastest driver in F1. Period end of story.

If this was a joke it made my day!

You will be surprised to learn that he was dead serious.

[Jag_Warrior]

IMO Ferrari's mistake was that they overestimated Alonso.

^^^Yep! :up:

And it appears that he's a sore loser to boot!

Champion Vettel reveals Alonso snub (http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sport/champion-vettel-reveals-alonso-snub-20101122-182rp.html)

[ioan]

^^^Yep! :up:

And it appears that he's a sore loser to boot!

Champion Vettel reveals Alonso snub (http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sport/champion-vettel-reveals-alonso-snub-20101122-182rp.html)

Why am I not surprised at all to read that?
Alonso just can't take it that he lost again to a young driver even though 4th place was all he needed. :D

[Dave B]

^^^Yep! :up:

And it appears that he's a sore loser to boot!

Champion Vettel reveals Alonso snub (http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sport/champion-vettel-reveals-alonso-snub-20101122-182rp.html)

And yet when I posted this last week....


From the Tweets of Adam Cooper:

And an FIA source tells me he [Alonso] declined an invitation to congratulate Vettel in parc ferme...


Class act. :\

...I was accused of speculation. Seems I was right :s

[Retro Formula 1]

And yet when I posted this last week....



...I was accused of speculation. Seems I was right :s

Wouldn't worry too much about the sort of comments posted on here mate.

As for Alonso, he seems to a particular type of driver that is only interested in himself. Personally, I don't mind if he goes waving fists around and doesn't congratulate other winners but it does show a lack of class. He's not in a popularity contest and might one day regret having put peoples back up.

[wedge]

And yet when I posted this last week....



...I was accused of speculation. Seems I was right :s

SHOCK HORROR!

Alonso is a c***!

It took weeks for Schumi to apologise to Rubens after the controversial overtaking manoeuvre in Hungary and that became a non-story in the Motorsport Forum.

[ioan]

SHOCK HORROR!

Alonso is a c***!

It took weeks for Schumi to apologise to Rubens after the controversial overtaking manoeuvre in Hungary and that became a non-story in the Motorsport Forum.

Since when two bad make a good?! :rolleyes:

Let's dig up the Senna vs Prost collision, maybe we can make Alonso, throwing his toys out of the pram and being the bad sport we all know he is, look good again!
Well, it doesn't work! he's not even close to being an average person.

[jas123f1]

^^^Yep! :up:

And it appears that he's a sore loser to boot!

Champion Vettel reveals Alonso snub (http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sport/champion-vettel-reveals-alonso-snub-20101122-182rp.html)

Oo mamma mia, and to this man they pay millions ? How long it takes to say congratulation.. ):

[Retro Formula 1]

Since when two bad make a good?! :rolleyes:

Let's dig up the Senna vs Prost collision, maybe we can make Alonso, throwing his toys out of the pram and being the bad sport we all know he is, look good again!
Well, it doesn't work! he's not even close to being an average person.

Agreed. People get rather upset about a driver being rude or uncaring. Can't say it bothers me too much as I know Alonso is a bit of an animal.

I'm really interested in what happens on the track and not off it.

[ArrowsFA1]

I think we armchair enthusiasts tend to see things rather differently to these F1 drivers :)

Schumacher didn't apologise to Rubens simply because he didn't feel he'd done anything wrong. Alonso vents his frustration at Petrov because the Russian had prevented him, the best driver in the world, from winning what was rightfully his i.e. the WDC. Hamilton (apparently) moans at Kubica for ruining his chances of the title.

These drivers are single-minded, egocentric individuals who, along with everyone around them, have focussed on themselves and their talent for as long as they can remember. They have the belief that they are the best of all drivers, and there are plenty of people around to tell them that they are. Self doubts, or admitting errors or weaknesses, can't come in to it.

[wedge]

Agreed. People get rather upset about a driver being rude or uncaring. Can't say it bothers me too much as I know Alonso is a bit of an animal.

I'm really interested in what happens on the track and not off it.

That was the point I was making.

Alonso's attitude should come as no surprise to seasoned followers to the point that it is worth not making a huge fuss over.

It's like in NASCAR and Kyle Busch. Apart from a new repertoire (flipping the bird to NASCAR official) I've gone beyond bothering why I should dislike him. He a brat full stop.

[Tazio]

http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2010/11/11567.html

A pretty good read from F1's official site.
I think that its required reading (especially the last three paragraphs) for all the little girls that feel the necessity to continually snipe
”The Big Bad Boo Man”

[donKey jote]

”The Big Bad Boo Man”

;) :laugh:

[markabilly]

http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2010/11/11567.html

A pretty good read from F1's official site.
I think that its required reading (especially the last three paragraphs) for all the little girls that feel the necessity to continually snipe
”The Big Bad Boo Man”
yeah fir all you little girls :s ailor:

I have heard on good evidence, that he was not snobbin nor snubbing.
hey girls, he was just too busy trying to find his 6/10ths, worried that sutile may have stolen it or he left it in the motel room....and he needed some kleenez for his tears

Now a gentlman would have returned and brought some for Vettel as well....

[Tazio]

he was just too busy trying to find his 6/10ths, worried that sutile may have stolen it or he left it in the motel room.

:s ailor: Did he lose them, or did his teammate just add a few tenths to his own laps? :rolleyes: :burp: :burp: :)

[i_max2k2]

:s ailor: Did he lose them, or did his teammate just add a few tenths to his own laps? :burp: :burp: :)


Pit Crew - "Alonso confirm you have lost your 6/10th ... "
Alonso - Radio Silence ..
Massa - "Confirmed Alonso has lost it.."

:D

[fandango]

And yet when I posted this last week....



...I was accused of speculation. Seems I was right :s

It was speculation. If Alonso wants to congratulate Vettel or not, it's his decision. Who is this mysterious person who "invites" people to do things? It's just a bogus story. And, you provided no link.

Anyway, that's just defending myself.

As I have said on this thread more than once, I don't defend Alonso's actions. But what I saw on Spanish TV was Alonso publicly congratulating Vettel on his win while the podium celebrations were going on. Ok, so he didn't do it personally. Does that make him a c**t? If it does for many people on here, I can accept that, and according to those standards that makes me wrong.

But what continually amazes me is how righteous people get about Alonso, while not applying the same standards or judgement to other drivers (except perhaps Schumacher in his day). I believe a large part of this is as a result of the 2007 season.

[DexDexter]

I think we armchair enthusiasts tend to see things rather differently to these F1 drivers :)

Schumacher didn't apologise to Rubens simply because he didn't feel he'd done anything wrong. Alonso vents his frustration at Petrov because the Russian had prevented him, the best driver in the world, from winning what was rightfully his i.e. the WDC. Hamilton (apparently) moans at Kubica for ruining his chances of the title.

These drivers are single-minded, egocentric individuals who, along with everyone around them, have focussed on themselves and their talent for as long as they can remember. They have the belief that they are the best of all drivers, and there are plenty of people around to tell them that they are. Self doubts, or admitting errors or weaknesses, can't come in to it.

They're not all like that. There are some good guys as well.


:s ailor: Did he lose them, or did his teammate just add a few tenths to his own laps?

His teammate had a spring hit his head, so yep his teammate added a few tenths to his laps.

[I am evil Homer]

There's a way of being a classy winner and a classy loser. Alonso is neither.

[Retro Formula 1]

But what continually amazes me is how righteous people get about Alonso, while not applying the same standards or judgement to other drivers (except perhaps Schumacher in his day). I believe a large part of this is as a result of the 2007 season.

I don't mind Alonso being a hard nosed b*stard as long as he keeps within the Law and rules of the sport.

In 2007 he transgressed that line and people may dislike him for that. Personally, I wouldn't trust him with a barge-pole and if he doesn't get his way at Ferrari, he might very quickly fall out of favour with the Tifosi.

Time to move on from that arguement and accept that people don't like what he did but you can't blame them for Alonso's actions during that year.

[ArrowsFA1]

They're not all like that. There are some good guys as well.
:up:

[Garry Walker]

Alonso is clearly the best and fastest driver in F1. Period end of story.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[Tazio]

His teammate had a spring hit his head, so yep his teammate added a few tenths to his laps.

If you want to delude yourself and hang on to that excuse that's fine.
It's BS!
In his own words he said he had problems with tyres and just could not get to grips with the F10.


Felipe Massa has admitted that his poor performance when compared to new Ferrari team-mate Fernando Alonso is down to not feeling entirely at home inthr Scuderia's F10, despite having been on the pace in pre-season testing.

The Brazilian has yet to better the second place he took in the season-opener in Bahrain - completing a Ferrari 1-2 behind Alonso - and has seen his results tail off since also appearing on the podium in Australia

"During the winter tests, I was 110 percent happy with the car and then we went to the first race and the car was great, everything was working perfectly as I wanted," the 2008 championship runner-up reflected, "Then, when we changed the tyres, I was always struggling a little bit more to get used to the car, to get used to the grip level, so that was the biggest problem, the biggest issue that I felt in the last races."While highlighting the tyres as a potential factor in his disappointing results - he was only sixth in Spain

Face it Scro, Fred wasted him! :arrows:

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/159660/1/massa_admits_there_are_issues.html

[markabilly]

once again, the worse problem with comparing team mates, it may not be valid and it may really be whose style of driving is favored over the other by the car handling.

Interesting, is tha that MS turned in second fastest time at the tire testing day he participated and loved the new tires. Rosberg when he was there, did not like nor do as well. And that was merely over the difference in tires.

[ioan]

If you want to delude yourself and hang on to that excuse that's fine.
It's BS!

Look who's talking about being delusional! :rotflmao:

[Tazio]

There is an intelligent rebuttal. :rolleyes:

[DexDexter]

There is an intelligent rebuttal. :rolleyes:

To me it's fairly likely that the accident has changed Massa as a person and as a driver as well. How much, that's anybody's guess. You're the one who is delusional if you think people are so strong that they just walk away from near death without scars. You need to study the human mind a bit more.

[Tazio]

To me it's fairly likely that the accident has changed Massa as a person and as a driver as well. How much, that's anybody's guess. You're the one who is delusional if you think people are so strong that they just walk away from near death without scars. You need to study the human mind a bit more.


"During the winter tests, I was 110 percent happy with the car and then we went to the first race and the car was great, everything was working perfectly as I wanted," the 2008 championship runner-up reflected, "Then, when we changed the tyres, I was always struggling a little bit more to get used to the car, to get used to the grip level,
so that was the biggest problem, the biggest issue that I felt in the last racesI'll take FM's word for it.
If you chose not to believe him you are entitled to think he is being less than honest. (brain damaged maybe)
I like Massa, however he got his @$$ kicked by Fred. Even if you give him back the 7 points from Germany he would still have been beaten by over 100 points by his teammate!

The only reason I engaged in this idiotic thread was to present an article from Formula1.com. that gives a realistic summary of Fred’s season. I've been insulted but didn't read one comment about the article I presented. I would cut and paste parts of it but the entire site is proprietary so you actually have to click the link to read it.
Do you have an opinion regarding it?
Here I'll paste the link again:

http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2010/11/11567.html

[Tazio]

Even if you give him back the 7 points from Germany he would still have been beaten by over 100 points by his teammate!
Correction, It would have been a mere 94 points! :D

[DexDexter]

[/B]I'll take FM's word for it.
If you chose not to believe him you are entitled to think he is being less than honest. (brain damaged maybe)
I like Massa, however he got his @$$ kicked by Fred. Even if you give him back the 7 points from Germany he would still have been beaten by over 100 points by his teammate!

The only reason I engaged in this idiotic thread was to present an article from Formula1.com. that gives a realistic summary of Fred’s season. I've been insulted but didn't read one comment about the article I presented. I would cut and paste parts of it but the entire site is proprietary so you actually have to click the link to read it.
Do you have an opinion regarding it?
Here I'll paste the link again:

http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2010/11/11567.html

A driver will necessarily not admit that he isn't as good as before. Massa may not even realise it himself. A good example of that is Häkkinen who admitted that he had changed after his Adelaide accident. After the accident, Mika seemed to take less risks which was most evident in wet conditions.

[Retro Formula 1]

To me it's fairly likely that the accident has changed Massa as a person and as a driver as well. How much, that's anybody's guess. You're the one who is delusional if you think people are so strong that they just walk away from near death without scars. You need to study the human mind a bit more.


Hang on a minute sunshine. Who are you to say what goes on in a mind. Have you studied the subject or are you expressing an uninformed opinion.

If you are, I can give you an informed one. I have had 3 life threatening crashes and I cant even remember the pain. I know I was in incredible pain with legs at funny angles, collapsed chest and back injuries but cannot remember exactly how the pain felt because the human mind refuses to remember that part.

Then we have the accident themselves. Did it change me and my approach. Sure did. Didn't slow me down but made me slightly more canny. Personally (as in it's my opinion based on experience), I doubt Massa's crash affects him at all. One of my crashes had nothing whatsoever to do with me and it was my worst. I don't even really remember it as a crash at all which is how my mind deals with things. Perhaps that's why you never get a race driver to visit a hospital or funeral because the mentality doesn't entertain the prospect. I suggest that Massa has moved on and this crash which he had nothing to do with only lives in the mind of armchair psychologists.

[DexDexter]

Hang on a minute sunshine. Who are you to say what goes on in a mind. Have you studied the subject or are you expressing an uninformed opinion.

If you are, I can give you an informed one. I have had 3 life threatening crashes and I cant even remember the pain. I know I was in incredible pain with legs at funny angles, collapsed chest and back injuries but cannot remember exactly how the pain felt because the human mind refuses to remember that part.

Then we have the accident themselves. Did it change me and my approach. Sure did. Didn't slow me down but made me slightly more canny. Personally (as in it's my opinion based on experience), I doubt Massa's crash affects him at all. One of my crashes had nothing whatsoever to do with me and it was my worst. I don't even really remember it as a crash at all which is how my mind deals with things. Perhaps that's why you never get a race driver to visit a hospital or funeral because the mentality doesn't entertain the prospect. I suggest that Massa has moved on and this crash which he had nothing to do with only lives in the mind of armchair psychologists.

I just pointed out the possibility that the accident has changed the man. Whether it changed you is beside the point. Are you really telling me that it is stupid to question whether Massa is as good a driver he was before the accident? We're talking about a very serious head injury. Lauda, for example, lost a WDC because he didn't want to risk his life in the wet (after having his near fatal accident).

[Retro Formula 1]

I just pointed out the possibility that the accident has changed the man. Whether it changed you is beside the point. Are you really telling me that it is stupid to question whether Massa is as good a driver he was before the accident? We're talking about a very serious head injury. Lauda, for example, lost a WDC because he didn't want to risk his life in the wet (after having his near fatal accident).

Actually, you said it was likely it had affected him as a person and a driver, that the other poster was delusional to doubt your opinion and that he should study the human mind more.

From what I understand, you have not studied the human mind so I offered an insight into how someone in a similar situation has found the experience.

It is not stupid to question whether Massa has been affected but it is stupid to ignore others experiences over what you think the situation is from a completely uneducated stand point.

I myself know virtually nothing about the workings of the human mind and am not presuming to suggest what is happening inside Massa's head but I have known drivers who start considering the implications and dangers of racing and they all end up retiring or damage themselves by trying to ignore their "fear" by driving faster.

[DexDexter]

Actually, you said it was likely it had affected him as a person and a driver, that the other poster was delusional to doubt your opinion and that he should study the human mind more.

From what I understand, you have not studied the human mind so I offered an insight into how someone in a similar situation has found the experience.

It is not stupid to question whether Massa has been affected but it is stupid to ignore others experiences over what you think the situation is from a completely uneducated stand point.

I myself know virtually nothing about the workings of the human mind and am not presuming to suggest what is happening inside Massa's head but I have known drivers who start considering the implications and dangers of racing and they all end up retiring or damage themselves by trying to ignore their "fear" by driving faster.


They're not all like that. There are some good guys as well.


His teammate had a spring hit his head, so yep his teammate added a few tenths to his laps.




If you want to delude yourself and hang on to that excuse that's fine.
It's BS!
In his own words he said he had problems with tyres and just could not get to grips with the F10.



To me it's fairly likely that the accident has changed Massa as a person and as a driver as well. How much, that's anybody's guess. You're the one who is delusional if you think people are so strong that they just walk away from near death without scars. You need to study the human mind a bit more.

You should really read the messages before starting to accuse people.

[Retro Formula 1]

You should really read the messages before starting to accuse people.


I cannot see the point you are making Dex?

Mr Alcatraz quoted Massa saying that he couldn't get to grips with the front end of the car this year. Hardly the first driver in that position!

He said you were deluding yourself in using the excuse of the accident to which you stated Massa had added 2-3 tenths to his lap time because of the accident. This has no basis in fact whatsoever.

You then said he was delusional if he believed people can walk away from these types of accidents without it affecting them mentally and that he should learn more about the human mind which by it's implication, suggests you have and know what you are talking about. It transpired that you haven't and dont!

I merely gave you the benefit of my experience which is a f**k of a lot more than you have ever had which you choose to ignore. Perhaps it has affected me because I have no patience with people that don't know what they talk about but stick to a misinformed, misguided and hypocritical viewpoint which has no substance, basis in fact and contridicts their opinion with the arguements they post.

Peace out man :s mokin:

[ioan]

I merely gave you the benefit of my experience which is a f**k of a lot more than you have ever had which you choose to ignore.

Nothing feels better than patting yourself on the shoulder, eh?! :rotflmao:

[DexDexter]

I cannot see the point you are making Dex?

Mr Alcatraz quoted Massa saying that he couldn't get to grips with the front end of the car this year. Hardly the first driver in that position!

He said you were deluding yourself in using the excuse of the accident to which you stated Massa had added 2-3 tenths to his lap time because of the accident. This has no basis in fact whatsoever.

You then said he was delusional if he believed people can walk away from these types of accidents without it affecting them mentally and that he should learn more about the human mind which by it's implication, suggests you have and know what you are talking about. It transpired that you haven't and dont!

I merely gave you the benefit of my experience which is a f**k of a lot more than you have ever had which you choose to ignore. Perhaps it has affected me because I have no patience with people that don't know what they talk about but stick to a misinformed, misguided and hypocritical viewpoint which has no substance, basis in fact and contridicts their opinion with the arguements they post.

Peace out man :s mokin:

You're the one who needs to calm down. You chose to make a big deal out of nothing. You picked a provocative message directed at a provocative poster and started bashing me. :rolleyes:

[ioan]

You're the one who needs to calm down. You chose to make a big deal out of nothing. You picked a provocative message directed at a provocative poster and started bashing me. :rolleyes:

Welcome to the F1 forum during the off-season! ;)

[DexDexter]

Welcome to the F1 forum during the off-season! ;)

Thanks, at least we don't fight any more ;)

[truefan72]

Alonso is clearly the best and fastest driver in F1. Period end of story.

...except when he is not

[ioan]

Thanks, at least we don't fight any more ;)

Let's hope it stays like this! :)

[Retro Formula 1]

You're the one who needs to calm down. You chose to make a big deal out of nothing. You picked a provocative message directed at a provocative poster and started bashing me. :rolleyes:

You may think I am bashing you but I'm still in 1st gear :laugh:

Seriously, no offence meant. I just suffer from low tollerance threshold :)

[DexDexter]

You may think I am bashing you but I'm still in 1st gear :laugh:

Seriously, no offence meant. I just suffer from low tollerance threshold :)

Let's move on, shall we?

[Mia 01]

Lewis is as good as Santander.

[jas123f1]

Lewis is as good as Santander.

Agreed - and I'm very pleased (like Max Mosley) that Ferrari didn't get any title this year.

:D