KERS

[Sonic]

Just thought I'd start this little thread which we can keep bubbling under to keep track of who is and who isn't going to run the system in 2011.


Wirth has also confirmed that the outfit will not be running KERS.

"We are not going to have KERS and I know lots of people are panicking about KERS and the fact that they think their car will be overweight to start with," he said.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88129

[SGWilko]

Renault will run it next year I think, so that means RBR and Lotus will also most likely.

Ferrari had a proven system, so them and maybe STR and BMW Sauber???

Mercedes and McLaren. I do not no who built the system used by McLaren in 2009 - if Mercedes, then will they make it available to McLaren and vice versa? WHat about Force India?

Williams had the flywheel system, will they use that and give it also to HRT?

Virgin no.

[markabilly]

in the usa, "ker" or cur referes to a dog mutt that is usually mean and worthless.....and that is what i think of that.

[steveaki13]

I am not sure what to think about seeing KERS again, but I am worried that we will see it falter again and within a year or two it will once again disappear

What do others feel?

[jens]

IIRC Lotus (the Fernandes team) has indicated that they won't use KERS in 2011 despite partnership with Renault.

[ioan]

Good, it would be time to give it a real chance.

[gloomyDAY]

I'm so sick of KERS.

It failed, so there isn't any necessity to bring it back.
Stating that it makes F1 more "green" is laughable.

[Mark]

I quite like KERS as a concept. What I can't stand is the whole KERS cars vs non-KERS cars thing.

[gloomyDAY]

I quite like KERS as a concept.I never did. This type of technology would be better suited for LeMans and not F1. We don't need another CART-style gimmick in F1.

I'm still disgusted by Spa 2009. Kimi won that race because all he did was push a button and managed to stay ahead of Fisichella. :mad:

[ioan]

I quite like KERS as a concept. What I can't stand is the whole KERS cars vs non-KERS cars thing.

Why is that?
KERS vs non-KERS is one of the few (if not the only one) bigger difference that we can still in the ever more standardized F1 card design!
We can witness again a difference of racing design philosophy and instead of being happy we kick it out of the way.

[ioan]

I'm still disgusted by Spa 2009. Kimi won that race because all he did was push a button and managed to stay ahead of Fisichella. :mad:

The problem was that Kimi did that by going around Fisi outside the track, otherwise KERS or not he wouldn't have made it.

[gloomyDAY]

The problem was that Kimi did that by going around Fisi outside the track, otherwise KERS or not he wouldn't have made it.Fair point. Also, Fisi had the chance to pass Kimi in the pits when Kimi committed a mistake, but then so did Fisi right after.

[ShiftingGears]

It's a pretty good idea, but the push-to-pass button is an awful, gimmicky way of implementing it.


I'd rather the drivers just have a dial and a readout so they can turn it up/down by how much they want to, depending on their race situation and their amount of Stored Kinetic Energy available.

[Sonic]

I believe that the teams have agreed to a standard battery KERS, so that's bye bye to the Williams fly wheel solution :(

[ioan]

I believe that the teams have agreed to a standard battery KERS, so that's bye bye to the Williams fly wheel solution :(

Sad, I agree with you.

[Whyzars]

The huge change has been removal of refueling stops so KERS has a potential new "usefulness".

I have always thought that "push to pass" caused KERS to become out of step with F1 and ultimately led to its demise. A good KERS system must provide some benefit over a bad KERS system but have that benefit realised over the course of an entire race, not just individual laps.

I have warmed to the KERS concept but will never accept "push to pass". The flywheel style especially has very real commercial trucking applications so KERS should be adopted by F1 and see where it goes.

[Whyzars]

I believe that the teams have agreed to a standard battery KERS, so that's bye bye to the Williams fly wheel solution :(

I didn't see this post before I posted above.

That's a pity. I actually thought the flywheel solution was the best/safest and had most potential for engineering challenges into the future.

Oh well... :(

[ShiftingGears]

I believe that the teams have agreed to a standard battery KERS, so that's bye bye to the Williams fly wheel solution :(

What a shame. The regs are way too tight - I don't know why the FIA is surprised when teams resort to aerodynamics when they close off pretty much all other areas of innovation!

[Sleeper]

Is the power output of the KERS systems going to be the same as 2009? If it is, I cant see the point in bothering with it again, it was proven that the only way to make it light enough to race with was to spend upwards of £50 million, and only Mercedes got it to work properly (lets not beat around the bush, its lighter, smaller and more reliable than the Ferrari, Renault and BMW versions).

So much for cost cutting.

[Ben_Chracer]

Ferrari had a proven system, so them and maybe STR and BMW Sauber???


Not trying to pick a fight here, but I have this persistent memory of Kimi leaping out of his smoking cockpit after KERS failure. And a dim recollection of one of the crew members (maybe not Ferrari) getting a massive shock by completing the circuit between the car and ground in the garage.

KERS would seem to be a very dangerous system with limited utility. As long as overtaking and cornering is hampered in close racing due to the preponderance of wings, it is nearly impossible to overcome the short-term burst provided by KERS. It doesn't improve the racing when it allows a slow car to balk a faster one by speeding up on the straights and holding the others up in the corners and slower sections. More boring parade laps if you ask me.

If everyone has it, it may be beneficial, but this piecemeal adoption is unexciting IMO.

Cheers,
Bruce

[Sonic]

Yes KERS returns under the same conditions as 2009 afaik.

[Mark]

The only point in using a technology like that is making it unrestricted IMO. You can collect as much energy as you can, and you can use it whenever you like!

[Dave B]

The only point in using a technology like that is making it unrestricted IMO. You can collect as much energy as you can, and you can use it whenever you like!

This. KERS in its 2009 form is a gimmick, a push-to-pass button disguised as an environmental measure. I'd like to see all the teams design their own systems, or be free to buy technology from other teams if they so wish, or to opt not to run KERS at all if they think the weight saving is advantageous.

[ShiftingGears]

Yes KERS returns under the same conditions as 2009 afaik.

:down: :down: :down:

[Sonic]

The only point in using a technology like that is making it unrestricted IMO. You can collect as much energy as you can, and you can use it whenever you like!

Bravo!

This is where I think the fly wheel has so much potential over the battery - way more flexible in terms of power boost and duration.

But it isn't to be. Hopefully KERS will be given a proper chance this time because I do think the technology is valuable to F1 (both competitively and Eco wise), with a little luck they will follow their own advice from 2008 and slowly but surely increase the power storage year on year.

[SGWilko]

Not trying to pick a fight here, but I have this persistent memory of Kimi leaping out of his smoking cockpit after KERS failure. And a dim recollection of one of the crew members (maybe not Ferrari) getting a massive shock by completing the circuit between the car and ground in the garage.

KERS would seem to be a very dangerous system with limited utility. As long as overtaking and cornering is hampered in close racing due to the preponderance of wings, it is nearly impossible to overcome the short-term burst provided by KERS. It doesn't improve the racing when it allows a slow car to balk a faster one by speeding up on the straights and holding the others up in the corners and slower sections. More boring parade laps if you ask me.

If everyone has it, it may be beneficial, but this piecemeal adoption is unexciting IMO.

Cheers,
Bruce

No probs - I don't see this as fight picking. :)

You are quite right, I think on two occasions the KERS in the Ferrari did a wobbly. But I think it was BWM, the biggest advocate of KERS (and who never used it!) that had the system that tried to fry a mechanic.

I like KERS because it focuses on renewables/energy reclamation and storage. This is something the public transport area of the civilised world needs to embrace.

If F1 can be used to develop it (and I think the Williams team are in partnership (I think, with a bus manufacturer) then all the better.

I also liked the tactical use of KERS last year. Not really as push to pass, but as an aid to improving lap time.

[ZEROX]

KERS are heavy. They'll make the car much slower start with those heavy fuel load.
Rather than KERS, just go for the Nitrous Oxide System (NOS) then... :p

[call_me_andrew]

This. KERS in its 2009 form is a gimmick, a push-to-pass button disguised as an environmental measure. I'd like to see all the teams design their own systems, or be free to buy technology from other teams if they so wish, or to opt not to run KERS at all if they think the weight saving is advantageous.

They already have push-to-pass in F1. It's only a gimmick if its usage is made public on television.

I think the mechanical flywheel KERS has a lot of real world potential because it seems relatively simple to retrofit onto a conventional powertrain.