Should Ireland be united?

[glauistean]

Having been to Ireland (Rep) many times, both in the 80's,90's and this new century I am struck at how much has changed.
It is an extremely modern country and the people are very worldly. They can speak of any situation going on in the world and do so with great knowledge.

The sad part is that the Northern part of the country is still stuck in a time warp. The sectarianism still exists and is vitriolic. Now, Northern Ireland is different than when the "troubles" began. The British soldiers are gone off the streets. The old RUC is now the PSNI(Police Service of Northern Ireland).

The reason this change in the policing was due to the fact that at one time the police force comprised 98% protestant of all denominations. The Nationalists were treated badly and proportionately worse than their counterparts. Then Margaret Thatcher came up with her idiotic " Interment without Trial". She may as well have lit a fuse because as a result there was absolute chaos. Bloody Sunday (second one), hunger strikers dying and martyrs made of them. The agony was now going on for nearly thirty years.


It had to change and thanks to Bill Clinton and Senator Mitchell it all changed and a total restructuring of the police force and the departure of the British army and a new multi-cultural government installed. The PIRA left down their arms and vowed not to return to the violence of years past.

Unfortunately, the UDA, UFF, UDR, Red Hand of Ulster and others did not get the message. They had some infighting and thus tried to get the nationalists involved. It has not worked. YET!

What do you guys and gals think. Sould Ireland be one? Or should Britain remain as it is?

[donKey jote]

they´re all from the land of the bogs and the little people, whatever flag they fly :p

[Bob Riebe]

A view of the current status from Ireland:
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/union/Let39s-unite-to-end-NI39s.6604451.jp

And a view from an American
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/03/14/a_segregated_peace

[Easy Drifter]

Maybe, just maybe, the Irish should decide themselves.

[driveace]

NO it wont happen!
Eire ,the south is bankcrupt,just drawn all my cash out of Allied Irish bank,as they are in the sh*t
ANd the majority in the north want to be British!!!

[Captain VXR]

Eventually, yes
Now, no simply because the UVF etc would explode and become far, far worse than RIRA

[Sonic]

Can. Worms.

S'all I'm saying :)

[Rollo]

If I was Grand Poobah and Lord High Everything Else then Ireland would be one country; I don't really care whether it's under the control of the UK or the Republic either.

Personally I blame that prize fop James VII who landed in Ireland for no good reason at all. He earned his name "Séamus an Chaca" or "James the ****"

[Andrewmcm]

That Boston Globe article is surprisingly accurate and a good take on the situation there.

[glauistean]

That Boston Globe article is surprisingly accurate and a good take on the situation there.
It is preferable to the one from the BBC.

One thing that I find disturbing from most articles or reports that I read is that most people will identify the culprits in the North of Ireland as the PIRA.
They seem to forget the loyalist organizations.
One horrendous saga or serial killing was conducted by the Shankhill Butcher.

That Paisley was even given a hand to his seat , retiring or not makes the hair on my neck stand up.

I remember one summer vacation when it was time to return to school (Northern Ireland) and the parents from a Catholic neighborhood were bringing their kids to a school that was in a Protestant area.

It was sickening to see these kids as they cried and asked to be brought home. Five year olds and six year olds being told their mothers were wh**** and some far worse. There was no condemnation from Paisley. For a few days the parents tried to continue but had to relent as the crowds of hecklers of 5 and 6 year olds grew and the parents of these children felt it was causing more harm to the children that they stopped going.

[Hondo]

Nowadays, it seems like any group that controls 10 acres or more of land wants to be their own, independent " People's Republic of Something" and I say let them. Business will be great for the flag, map, and globe makers. Of course, sooner or later, a People's Republic larger and stronger than the neighboring People's Republic will start casting glances at expansion. But that's life in the independent nation business.

If the popular majority of Ireland wants to be independent of England now would be the time to go for it. I don't know that England could afford to do much about it right now especially if Argentina went for the Falklands at the same time and Scotland started their independence rumblings.

[glauistean]

Nowadays, it seems like any group that controls 10 acres or more of land wants to be their own, independent " People's Republic of Something" and I say let them. Business will be great for the flag, map, and globe makers. Of course, sooner or later, a People's Republic larger and stronger than the neighboring People's Republic will start casting glances at expansion. But that's life in the independent nation business.

If the popular majority of Ireland wants to be independent of England now would be the time to go for it. I don't know that England could afford to do much about it right now especially if Argentina went for the Falklands at the same time and Scotland started their independence rumblings.

With all due respect Hondo, Ireland is not just suddenly looking for total autonomy and free of GB.
Margaet Thatcher sent her military to the Malvinas to protect 1200 people who suddenly found themselves occupied by the rightful owners of the islands. Argentina. 1800 people died in this unnecessary war but Thacher in her "wisdom" decided to send these young men and women to their deaths thousands of miles from home. She also sent 400 Argentine soldiers to their deaths by having a submarine fire on the General Belgrano even though she was outside the Total Exclusion Zone set by the British themselves.

Thatcher imposed on the Irish as noted in another post "internment without trial". Guess which group was sent to prisons like the Maze and Long Kesh at a rate of more than 10 to 1. The Catholic. Whether they were innocent or guilty they were imprisoned without any representation.

This is just part of a number of issues the British had imposed upon the Irish Catholic over the centuries. There is the Famine or Gorta Mor. The Irish tenant farmer was exporting cattle and vegetable products to GB while the children and wives died. They had to do this. It was law.

It does not matter what the majority of Irish people want. It is what the British government wants. Northern Ireland is part of GB and the UK.
Ireland (26 counties) have tried over the years such as 1798, 1916 and throughout the twentieth century to gain freedom or a united country.

With respect to the British participants on this forum I would like to state that no British person living is responsible for any part of the conflict and were victims to some of the most horrendous bombings of our times.

In fact there is a very a strong bond between the Republic of Ireland and the UK.

[Bob Riebe]

With all due respect Hondo, Ireland is not just suddenly looking for total autonomy and free of GB.
Margaet Thatcher sent her military to the Malvinas to protect 1200 people who suddenly found them.selves occupied by the rightful owners of the islands. Argentina. 1800 people died in this unnecessary war but Thacher in her "wisdom" decided to send these young men and women to their deaths thousands of miles from home. She also sent 400 Argentine soldiers to their deaths by having a submarine fire on the General Belgrano even though she was outside the Total Exclusion Zone set by the British themselves.



With all due respect this has nothing to do with Ireland, any part, now, but if you are going to use a non-related part of history at least do not, try to twist it.

The French first founded Port St. Louis on the East Island in 1764; British first settled Port Egmont on the West Island in 1765.
Spain acquired the French settlement in 1766, and attacked the British settlement in 1770.
The British abandoned its settlement but to avoid war they signed a peace treaty with Spain and returned in 1771.

Economic concerns caused the British to leave in 1774 and the Spanish in 1811; each left a plaque stating ownership.

American Col. David Jewett raised the flag of the United Provinces of the River Plate for the Irish businessman, who lived in the Provinces, Patrick Lynch.
Luis Vernet, born in Hamburg, Germany, founded a settlement in 1828, but the British returned in 1833, saying they were reassuming control of the islands allowing Vernet and company to stay as long as they kept about their own business.

The Falklands became a strategic point for the British during WWI and WWII.

The U.N. became involved after WWII, but the islanders voted to remain British.

So if anyone has claim it would be the French, British and Spain and lastly Argentina.
Gee there are two small French Islands off of the east coast of the U.S., now who owns those by your standard, Canada or the U.S., or France?
Canada probably as they are closer than either the U.S. or France; I guess they should invade.

[Mark]

Personally I think as a whole Northern Ireland has closer dies with Dublin than it does with London, and I think it would benefit them to be part of a united Ireland; but, this is not something I can ever see happening realistically.

Large areas of land like that don't usually just change from belonging to one country to belonging to another without some sort of intervening war.. and the prospect of the UK government walking out and ROI government coming in just doesn't seem realistic or practical. Handing your sovereignty over to a 'foreign' government is an entirely different prospect to the likes of Scotland seeking independence from the UK.

I think Northern Ireland is more likely to become a fully independent state before that would happen. What I could see happening more realistically is more of a power sharing agreement with Dublin having more say over what happens in Northern Ireland - which they already do to an extent, and there has been cooperation for example on Dublin funding roads that go between two places in the Republic but pass through Northern Ireland on the way.

[Mark]

On the subject of the Falklands there has been a news story today that if the planned cuts in the UK carrier fleet and Harriers goes ahead then we wouldn't be in a position to respond to a new Argentinian invasion.

[Cooper_S]

Maybe, just maybe, the Irish should decide themselves.


And they will... The Republic (Eire) would not vote against reunification, so that just leaves the 1.6m residents of the six counties,

As it currently stands the majority (mainly protestants) would vote NO, however with the demographic shift every generation, the Republican side are growing and simply by having on average more children than their Unionist neighbours this means soon a simple vote on the question of reunification will produce a majority YES...

and the best part is... not a single shot needs to be fired.

[Cooper_S]

On the subject of the Falklands there has been a news story today that if the planned cuts in the UK carrier fleet and Harriers goes ahead then we wouldn't be in a position to respond to a new Argentinian invasion.

That may or may not be true.... however seen as there is no agenda in Argentina to retake the Falklands anytime soon that is not a worry.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

On the subject of the Falklands there has been a news story today that if the planned cuts in the UK carrier fleet and Harriers goes ahead then we wouldn't be in a position to respond to a new Argentinian invasion.

I doubt that Argentina could even launch an invasion of the Falklands today. In 1982 the Falklands were hardly defended. Today with have an airbase of Eurofighters and helicopters own there.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

If the popular majority of Ireland wants to be independent of England now would be the time to go for it. I don't know that England could afford to do much about it right now especially if Argentina went for the Falklands at the same time and Scotland started their independence rumblings.

A very confusion post. Stop referring to the UK as England.

A majority of Ireland is independent of United Kingdom. It is called the Republic of Ireland. :confused:

[Mark]

If the popular majority of Ireland wants to be independent of England now would be the time to go for it

The majority of Ireland is already independent of 'England', were talking about Northern Ireland here.

However technically speaking there is no 'England', in terms of government to be independent of, it's the United Kingdom, or Britain for short if you prefer.



afford to do much about it right now especially if Argentina went for the Falklands at the same time and Scotland started their independence rumblings.

'England', actually the UK, would actually be financially better off without Northern Ireland as it's actually a drain on our resources with policing, infrastructure etc.

What you mean Scotland "started", if you haven't noticed the Scottish National Party has been in power there for some time now, with the started aim of full Independence.

PS. I do get irked when people refer to the whole of the UK as 'England'.

[Cooper_S]

PS. I do get irked when people refer to the whole of the UK as 'England'.


You mean the way Scots/Welsh and Northern Irish get irked when the English say England when they mean United Kingdom... I can see how it can be irksome.

Best not to let it get you worked up... I have lost count of the number of times people have called me English despite my strong Irish (Dublin) accent.

[Mark]

You mean the way Scots/Welsh and Northern Irish get irked when the English say England when they mean United Kingdom... I can see how it can be irksome.


No, I don't find that to be very common at all, most people in England know the difference.

[Cooper_S]

No, I don't find that to be very common at all, most people in England know the difference.

We will just have to differ on that as in my 22 years living in England I have found it to be quite common...

[Brown, Jon Brow]

No, I don't find that to be very common at all, most people in England know the difference.

I've also never heard the press call Andy Murray British when he wins and Scottish when he loses.

I remember being in pubs when a home nations that isn't England is playing a football match. In most cases you will find English people supporting the other home nations. I reckon most people in England would love Wales or even the Republic of Ireland to qualify for the World Cup.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

We will just have to differ on that as in my 22 years living in England I have found it to be quite common...

It means nothing. I now live in Lancashire and locals mistake me for a Southerner, even though I'm from Cumbria.

[Cooper_S]

LOL, I'm sure they would... it would bolster their own chances of making the finals.

I always support England as it would be fool hardy after living here so long not to do so, (exception being if they are playing Ireland of course)

[glauistean]

With all due respect this has nothing to do with Ireland, any part, now, but if you are going to use a non-related part of history at least do not, try to twist it.

The French first founded Port St. Louis on the East Island in 1764; British first settled Port Egmont on the West Island in 1765.
Spain acquired the French settlement in 1766, and attacked the British settlement in 1770.
The British abandoned its settlement but to avoid war they signed a peace treaty with Spain and returned in 1771.

Economic concerns caused the British to leave in 1774 and the Spanish in 1811; each left a plaque stating ownership.

American Col. David Jewett raised the flag of the United Provinces of the River Plate for the Irish businessman, who lived in the Provinces, Patrick Lynch.
Luis Vernet, born in Hamburg, Germany, founded a settlement in 1828, but the British returned in 1833, saying they were reassuming control of the islands allowing Vernet and company to stay as long as they kept about their own business.

The Falklands became a strategic point for the British during WWI and WWII.

The U.N. became involved after WWII, but the islanders voted to remain British.

So if anyone has claim it would be the French, British and Spain and lastly Argentina.
Gee there are two small French Islands off of the east coast of the U.S., now who owns those by your standard, Canada or the U.S., or France?
Canada probably as they are closer than either the U.S. or France; I guess they should invade.

There you go again Bobby. You selectively take one part of a post and try to use to blast at the poster(me). Now, when I write something I do so without using google or any other tools which is obvious that is something that you do.

Neither Hondo nor I stated that the Falklands had anything specific to do with Ireland. Being analgous is something that always comes into debate. In your case you don't see it.

I am tired of these threads ending up in these silly and juvenile theatrics that you and others want them to be. You have accused me of being a know-it-all. If I were I would not be,at 8am in the morning typing a response to you on a chat forum.

You then call me a coward (this is the internet. No heroes no cowards) if I decline to post.

If you were civil at least, I would try to respond to you. That does not seem possible.

So if you want to try to denegrate me,do so. You will just be showing everyone else how shallow you are.

As to your point about the Malvinas (Falklands) and Argentina and to ownership. You are going down a slippery slope as to ownership of specific points on a map. Conquering and overtaking are not the same as rightful ownership.

[glauistean]

LOL, I'm sure they would... it would bolster their own chances of making the finals.

I always support England as it would be fool hardy after living here so long not to do so, (exception being if they are playing Ireland of course)

I'm glad to see a post like this. It always amazes me to hear people rooting against the country they reside and work in.

I like football(soccer) quite a lot and every time I get to see a game that is from the English Premier league it seems to me at least, the commentators always seem to be positive where Irish players are concerned.

It even goes to another level that when the law was in force and could be again, that a team could only field three foreign born players the FA of England did not view Irish born players as foreign and thus the careers of many fine players was allowed to flourish. Again, this debate is starting to raise it's ugly head again as the EU wants to insert itself into sports.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I'm glad to see a post like this. It always amazes me to hear people rooting against the country they reside and work in.

I like football(soccer) quite a lot and every time I get to see a game that is from the English Premier league it seems to me at least, the commentators always seem to be positive where Irish players are concerned.

It even goes to another level that when the law was in force and could be again, that a team could only field three foreign born players the FA of England did not view Irish born players as foreign and thus the careers of many fine players was allowed to flourish. Again, this debate is starting to raise it's ugly head again as the EU wants to insert itself into sports.

I used to remember the 'only three foreign players rule' in the mid 1990s when Manchester United and other British clubs were disadvantaged in the European Cup because Welsh players such as Ryan Giggs and Mark Hughes were classed as foriegn.

[Cooper_S]

I'm glad to see a post like this. It always amazes me to hear people rooting against the country they reside and work in..


As I say it would be fool hardy, besides the fact I live here, I married an English woman, and we have two daughters... I take then to events like this Saturdays London Lord Mayors show... they know they have Irish roots and family still living there but they are English... and I am proud to make sure they know that.... with the best will in the world I will never return to Ireland now, even with a mega lottery win I would only buy a holiday home there.

[glauistean]

As I say it would be fool hardy, besides the fact I live here, I married an English woman, and we have two daughters... I take then to events like this Saturdays London Lord Mayors show... they know they have Irish roots and family still living there but they are English... and I am proud to make sure they know that.... with the best will in the world I will never return to Ireland now, even with a mega lottery win I would only buy a holiday home there.

I would have a problem in your household. Do you get to do the dishes and the vacuuming? Surrounded by women :)

[glauistean]

I used to remember the 'only three foreign players rule' in the mid 1990s when Manchester United and other British clubs were disadvantaged in the European Cup because Welsh players such as Ryan Giggs and Mark Hughes were classed as foriegn.

I must be incorrect on that regarding the Irish or it may have been before the period you are speaking about.

Hard to believe that Ryan Giggs is still going on strong. Paul Scholes too.

Did you see them play Wolves on Saturday? They were lucky to get that win.

Amazing squad though.

[yodasarmpit]

In response to the original question, let Ireland and Northern Ireland decide by means of a referendum.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I have to say Ireland should be one country. Let me state that my view on this isn't what my ancestors thought. My family on both sides is from Ulster. My father's family is from Donegal, my Mother's from Newtonards Penisula. My grandfather belonged to the Orange lodge here in Canada. My mother's family worked for land agents over here resettling Protestants and Catholics in the new country. So this conflict has always troubled me.

It is pretty simple though. The UK, through history treated Ireland horribly. Even when it seemed to try to do the right thing, it didn't happen. Being tough with the IRA didn't work, and the whole thing is one of those wrongs of history that the UK has to atone for I suppose on some level. That said, in today's world, it has. The Republic and the UK get along fine, and citizens of either don't have a problem with the other EXCEPT maybe when it comes to Northern Ireland. Even then, I think most in the UK are ready to say "enough already, get out".

Northern Ireland however has a large group of people who are not Ian Paisley and his thugs who are protestant who do wish to stay with the crown. If their rights are to be respected, then I suppose it wont change.

Other than fiscal stupidity which will likely be cured over time, Ireland has been a remarkable country in the last few years. If I lived in Ulster, I would want to just get on with it...just as long as the government in Dublin accepted a principle and revision to the constitution to respect secular rights and keep religion away from affairs of state. IF that is the case now, then I wouldn't have an issue, but alas, I am just not there.

IT is the nation though of my roots, and it always troubled me that things are that messy there. What really annoys me though is the Orangemen trying to hold the moral highground with some of the stunts they pull on the 12th. Greater Irony? The decendents of the two sides get along fine in Canada....When the main Catholic Church burned down in Mainly Protestant (and an Orangemen's hotbed if there was one in Ontario) in Midland Ontario; one of the first organizations who offered up space to help was the local Orange lodge. It seems if you take the Irish out of Ireland, they seem to get along!!

glauistean, I wont get into how I disagree with you on the Falklands....but on Ireland, One Ireland is a great thing...but it cant just be done overnight. I predict though in 50 to 100 years it will happen peacefully. Why? Ireland will be back as an economic work horse in the EC in time....and as things are better in the south, it will make clear the folly of being part of the UK which has really ignored both protestant and catholic....

[Rollo]

glauistean, I wont get into how I disagree with you on the Falklands....

I will... and I'll start a new thread on the subject...

Here 'tis:
http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=860180

[janvanvurpa]

Gee there are two small French Islands off of the east coast of the U.S., now who owns those by your standard, Canada or the U.S., or France?
Canada probably as they are closer than either the U.S. or France; I guess they should invade.


Off the coast of the US,eh?
The nearest US territory, Maine, is about 500 miles/850km as the crow flies.
The Newfoundland coast is about 10miles/16km

There's a whole Canadian Province or 2 between Maine and St.Pierre et Miquelon.

Your analogy fails.

(Look on a map maybe)

[glauistean]

I have to say Ireland should be one country. Let me state that my view on this isn't what my ancestors thought. My family on both sides is from Ulster. My father's family is from Donegal, my Mother's from Newtonards Penisula. My grandfather belonged to the Orange lodge here in Canada. My mother's family worked for land agents over here resettling Protestants and Catholics in the new country. So this conflict has always troubled me.

It is pretty simple though. The UK, through history treated Ireland horribly. Even when it seemed to try to do the right thing, it didn't happen. Being tough with the IRA didn't work, and the whole thing is one of those wrongs of history that the UK has to atone for I suppose on some level. That said, in today's world, it has. The Republic and the UK get along fine, and citizens of either don't have a problem with the other EXCEPT maybe when it comes to Northern Ireland. Even then, I think most in the UK are ready to say "enough already, get out".

Northern Ireland however has a large group of people who are not Ian Paisley and his thugs who are protestant who do wish to stay with the crown. If their rights are to be respected, then I suppose it wont change.

Other than fiscal stupidity which will likely be cured over time, Ireland has been a remarkable country in the last few years. If I lived in Ulster, I would want to just get on with it...just as long as the government in Dublin accepted a principle and revision to the constitution to respect secular rights and keep religion away from affairs of state. IF that is the case now, then I wouldn't have an issue, but alas, I am just not there.

IT is the nation though of my roots, and it always troubled me that things are that messy there. What really annoys me though is the Orangemen trying to hold the moral highground with some of the stunts they pull on the 12th. Greater Irony? The decendents of the two sides get along fine in Canada....When the main Catholic Church burned down in Mainly Protestant (and an Orangemen's hotbed if there was one in Ontario) in Midland Ontario; one of the first organizations who offered up space to help was the local Orange lodge. It seems if you take the Irish out of Ireland, they seem to get along!!

glauistean, I wont get into how I disagree with you on the Falklands....but on Ireland, One Ireland is a great thing...but it cant just be done overnight. I predict though in 50 to 100 years it will happen peacefully. Why? Ireland will be back as an economic work horse in the EC in time....and as things are better in the south, it will make clear the folly of being part of the UK which has really ignored both protestant and catholic....

Mark, good post. Regarding your point about the two church's getting along when they are away from Ulster is very telling. The issue in NI or 6 counties of Ulster is one based on politics with religion being the common denominator between them. Presbyterians booted off their land in Scotland and planted in Ireland after the landlords were evicted. They of course happened to be Catholic.

Now move forward a couple of hundred years and after the rebellion of 1916 and a show of determination from DeValera and Michael Colins to have a United Ireland it was left to Collins to agree to 26 counties instead of 32.

They were of course the six counties of Ulster. Not all Ulster is in Northern Ireland. Donegal for example where your dad is from is in the Republic.So to o is Monaghan and Cavan. I may be misssing one.

I like you do not see unification coming soon either and I did not mean to infer that all Presbyterians were like Ian Paisley. Nor are all Catholics like Martin McGinnis.

My brother lives in Ireland and goes into the North quite a lot. He loves doing business there as he says that in the middle class area you will find both religions living together and having done that all through the Troubles.

[fandango]

History has become irrelevant. What's interesting about this question is that there isn't a clamouring throng of people in the Republic of Ireland (The Irish Free State, as it was known) who wish for their countrymen to be united with them.

When I was a teenager in the mid-eighties in Dublin I remember meeting some Germans and being surprised that unification was something they dreamed of, something that would subsequently happen within a few years.

In the Republic of Ireland people have been gradually educated not to bother with all that stuff. We're easily offended when the Brits get their facts wrong about Ireland, like when they talk about "here and the mainland", but that's because we don't want to recognise that they just don't consider Ireland to be that important, understandably, and then we (Republic of Ireland citizens) do exactly the same to Northern Ireland: Most people just don't really care what goes on there, unless it relates directly to them. So the question is not now about a "United Ireland", but rather "What will the Northern Irish people do with themselves, for good or bad?"

[ioan]

On the subject of the Falklands there has been a news story today that if the planned cuts in the UK carrier fleet and Harriers goes ahead then we wouldn't be in a position to respond to a new Argentinian invasion.

Don't worry, Argentina doesn't have more money available either! ;)

Seriously do you believe that in today's world they would risk a UN embargo by starting an armed conflict?

[Cooper_S]

History has become irrelevant. What's interesting about this question is that there isn't a clamouring throng of people in the Republic of Ireland (The Irish Free State, as it was known) who wish for their countrymen to be united with them.

When I was a teenager in the mid-eighties in Dublin I remember meeting some Germans and being surprised that unification was something they dreamed of, something that would subsequently happen within a few years.

In the Republic of Ireland people have been gradually educated not to bother with all that stuff. We're easily offended when the Brits get their facts wrong about Ireland, like when they talk about "here and the mainland", but that's because we don't want to recognise that they just don't consider Ireland to be that important, understandably, and then we (Republic of Ireland citizens) do exactly the same to Northern Ireland: Most people just don't really care what goes on there, unless it relates directly to them. So the question is not now about a "United Ireland", but rather "What will the Northern Irish people do with themselves, for good or bad?"

As you say, I also have never considered the possibility on seeing Ireland united, I was born and raised in the Republic and we were our own country and got on with that.

Someone posted earlier that this is a matter for the peoples of Ireland, but really it is mostly for the people of the six counties to decide, when they can decide they want it then the Republic will consider if they want it.

[ioan]

We're easily offended when the Brits get their facts wrong about Ireland, like when they talk about "here and the mainland",

I guess they must feel the same when mainland Europeans refer to them.

[Cooper_S]

I sometimes get the impression the 'English' would quite like another small war with Argentina (not in a pre-emptive way you understand).

[Mark]

If you want to discuss the Falkland Islands please use the other thread.


As you say, I also have never considered the possibility on seeing Ireland united, I was born and raised in the Republic and we were our own country and got on with that.

Someone posted earlier that this is a matter for the peoples of Ireland, but really it is mostly for the people of the six counties to decide, when they can decide they want it then the Republic will consider if they want it.

Ties between Northern Ireland and the Republic are starting to become stronger at the same time as N.Ireland moves away from direct control from Westminster.

The M1 motorway and A1 link replacing the horrible old N1 between Dublin and Belfast meaning that people in Belfast can realistically go to Dublin for a day trip and vice-versa (I know, I've done it!) and no border controls whatsoever. In fact one of the only practical things that seperates the Republic from Northern Ireland and makes it different from e.g. going from England to Scotland, is that they use a different currency.

Should the UK ever join the Euro, with Ireland and the UK both being EU members, then the problem will partly disappear as it won't make much difference which side of the border you're on.

[Cooper_S]

Should the UK ever join the Euro, with Ireland and the UK both being EU members, then the problem will partly disappear as it won't make much difference which side of the border you're on.

Currency is only one difference, VAT, Bank rates, Income tax bands etc are all different so which side of the border you live and work will still have an impact.

[Mark]

Currency is only one difference, VAT, Bank rates, Income tax bands etc are all different so which side of the border you live and work will still have an impact.

That is, of course, true. But we're not talking one being a police state and one being a free country for example. Northern Ireland/UK and the Republic have more in common than they have different.

Of course religion is an issue, which is always difficult for an Englisher to understand where religion is largely irrelevant these days.

[fandango]

Ties between Northern Ireland and the Republic are starting to become stronger at the same time as N.Ireland moves away from direct control from Westminster.

I just don't know if that's true. I think you'd have to ask Northern Irish people who live in the Republic. The ones I know have often been made to feel as if they are foreigners. I don't mean it in a deliberately offensive way, but Northerners find it surprising that people see them as being from another country when they feel that the border is just symbolic.

Looking back, and I have absolutely no proof of this, it's just a suspicion, I think the Irish government educated its people this way in order to avoid too much conflict with the UK. I have known people over the years whose political sympathies lay with the IRA to a degree that it was better not to ask, possibly dangerous people. If the Irish government(s) had taken a different policy, it could have been the majority of people in the Republic who held these views, so imagine the mess that would have been.

The result of it all, though, is that many Northern Irish people who identified with the Republic have felt abandoned and betrayed by it.

You only have to look at international football: why is it that Ireland is so called, and not "Republic of Ireland"? "Ireland" is an island, a geographical entity. It's a minor quibble, but it seems wrong to me.

[Mark]

You only have to look at international football: why is it that Ireland is so called, and not "Republic of Ireland"? "Ireland" is an island, a geographical entity. It's a minor quibble, but it seems wrong to me.

Well I think that comes down to the Irish regarding the whole of the island of Ireland as being 'Ireland', just that the six-counties are under occupation by a foreign power at present!

As for your other points, is similar to Scotland I think. Many English like the idea of visiting or living in Scotland, many Scots on the other hand don't have such fond regard of the English!

So from what you are saying those Northern Ireland residents who identify closely with the republic may find themselves less welcome than they first thought?

[glauistean]

Isn't it strange and I hope I have not mentioned this before in that the acrimony between the religions is more prevalent in Scotland that it is in England.

Take the soccer teams, Glasgow Celtic, started by Irish Christian Brothers and then Glasgow Ranger supported by Protestant Unionists. Again I emphasise that religion is the catalyst and excuse. It really is Nationalism and Unionism. My opinion only. It's sad to see people so close in identity harbor such hatred. Not monopolized by either group.
I believe (imho) that the English people are less involved in this hatred than the groups from N1 and Scotland.

[fandango]

Well I think that comes down to the Irish regarding the whole of the island of Ireland as being 'Ireland', just that the six-counties are under occupation by a foreign power at present!

As for your other points, is similar to Scotland I think. Many English like the idea of visiting or living in Scotland, many Scots on the other hand don't have such fond regard of the English!

So from what you are saying those Northern Ireland residents who identify closely with the republic may find themselves less welcome than they first thought?

I don't think "under occupation" is really the correct term. The majority of the people there prefer to stay in the UK.

And it's not a question of being less welcome, for Northern Irish people in the Republic, more an attitude. They don't expect to be foreigners, but they are. It's very subtle, not at all like the resentment to the English.