GM Joins Indycar in 2012!!

[Lousada]

WOW! Finally some REAL positive news for Indycar. The bottom is reached and now it will only go up!


General Motors Co. and its motorsports entity - GM Racing - has committed to fielding a Chevrolet-branded Twin-Turbo V6 racing engine to compete against Honda in the IndyCar Series beginning with the 2012 season. The announcement will be made this Friday, November 12, at a venue yet to be determined, although a press conference at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway would not be unexpected.
http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/

[anthonyvop]

WOW! Finally some REAL positive news for Indycar. The bottom is reached and now it will only go up!


http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/

Great! More of my Tax Dollars being wasted!

[TURN3]

Great! More of my Tax Dollars being wasted!

Is there any right answer with you?

This is good for the series, another manufacturer and an American one to boot. Pretty hard to find anything negative about this, except for one or two of you people that the rest of us just wish would go away.

[anthonyvop]

Is there any right answer with you?

This is good for the series, another manufacturer and an American one to boot. Pretty hard to find anything negative about this, except for one or two of you people that the rest of us just wish would go away.

So I am suppose to approve of my Tax dollars being taken from me and given to what was once a poorly run private company just so the politicians can pay back the Unions for all their help?

No! I am not!

And if you think I am the only one against Government Bailouts then you weren't paying attention last Tuesday!

[BDunnell]

Pretty hard to find anything negative about this, except for one or two of you people that the rest of us just wish would go away.

Nice to see this sentiment being expressed by others too...

[Otto-Matic]

So I am suppose to approve of my Tax dollars being taken from me and given to what was once a poorly run private company just so the politicians can pay back the Unions for all their help?

No! I am not!

And if you think I am the only one against Government Bailouts then you weren't paying attention last Tuesday!

So what about NASCAR? Due you take issue with GM's involvment with that as well?

[anthonyvop]

So what about NASCAR? Due you take issue with GM's involvment with that as well?

YES.

I take issue with anything GM does with MY MONEY!!!

[NickFalzone]

YES.

I take issue with anything GM does with MY MONEY!!!

So then Anthony in your opinion, GM should not be racing in any series right now? It's typical that you'd piss all over any good news for the IRL, but I agree with you on GM spending tax dollars on racing. I think they should work on getting their books in order before spending on the frills of car racing. On the other hand, I like IndyCar, so personally I don't mind spending a few tax dollars to keep it going :) If I didn't like racing, I'd agree with you 100%.

[anthonyvop]

So then Anthony in your opinion, GM should not be racing in any series right now? It's typical that you'd piss all over any good news for the IRL, but I agree with you on GM spending tax dollars on racing. I think they should work on getting their books in order before spending on the frills of car racing. On the other hand, I like IndyCar, so personally I don't mind spending a few tax dollars to keep it going :) If I didn't like racing, I'd agree with you 100%.

I don't care what series it is. GM shouldn't be involved in any racing as long as they are working on my dime.

In a perfect world every cent would be returned to the Government(Including interest) and they would declare bankruptcy.

[Hoop-98]

I don't care what series it is. GM shouldn't be involved in any racing as long as they are working on my dime.

In a perfect world every cent would be returned to the Government(Including interest) and they would declare bankruptcy.

LMAO @ The Vopster, just like your outrage over the ALMS Corvettes eh, what a phony posting.... rh

[MDS]

I don't care what series it is. GM shouldn't be involved in any racing as long as they are working on my dime.

In a perfect world every cent would be returned to the Government(Including interest) and they would declare bankruptcy.

Seriously? None of your federal tax bill is being used for the GM bailout because it was part of TARP, which was deficit funded. So instead of whining about what they're doing with "Your dime," you should be complaining about what they're doing with debt incurred in your name without your consent. That would be the accurate what of stating your concern.

Beyond that, GM is on track for $2 billion in profit this year. They are on a track to pay off the federal government and are paying for their IRL program out of their profits. Also GM will have repay the federal government $10 billion by the time the IPO finishes.

[champcarray]

GM is planning an IPO. Does anyone know their schedule for paying back the U.S. Treasury?

Regardless, I think this is great news.

[TURN3]

So I am suppose to approve of my Tax dollars being taken from me and given to what was once a poorly run private company just so the politicians can pay back the Unions for all their help?

No! I am not!

And if you think I am the only one against Government Bailouts then you weren't paying attention last Tuesday!

I'm against government bailouts too, but the fact the Feds bailed them out has nothing to with what they do to continue to operate. Would you rather they stop their involvement in product developement and promotion? Yeah, that'll get them back into the swing of things.


Nice to see this sentiment being expressed by others too...

Obviously you don't pay attention to what a drag he is. Rather than listen to somebody complain about every single news item, I'd prefer to see him leave and go enjoy whatever it is he actually does enjoy. Judging by what we read here, he doesn't enjoy anything, rather sulks in life with no friends.


I don't care what series it is. GM shouldn't be involved in any racing as long as they are working on my dime.

In a perfect world every cent would be returned to the Government(Including interest) and they would declare bankruptcy.

Declare bankruptcy, where they are offered government protection. You should win an award for stupidity. What difference does it make? You don't make enough money for "your dime" to matter anyway. Besides, all the government did was print them money, we're not paying for it. The deficit just went up that much more.


Seriously? None of your federal tax bill is being used for the GM bailout because it was part of TARP, which was deficit funded. So instead of whining about what they're doing with "Your dime," you should be complaining about what they're doing with debt incurred in your name without your consent. That would be the accurate what of stating your concern.

Beyond that, GM is on track for $2 billion in profit this year. They are on a track to pay off the federal government and are paying for their IRL program out of their profits. Also GM will have repay the federal government $10 billion by the time the IPO finishes.

Exactly. Exactly, and exactly. Need more posters with a little sense like MDS.

[vintage]

Hey Vop, go back to crapwagon where you'll be with the rest of your pals. Make sure all you tea party guys remember who was the president when the TARP was put in place, and how the economy looked then.

Would have been much better to lose all those jobs and put all the GM employees and suppliers out of work. Maybe we could have had a worldwide depression - that would have made everyone happy!

Btw - I think it's great news that GM is looking to do this - for AOWR!

[Jag_Warrior]

Hey Vop, go back to crapwagon where you'll be with the rest of your pals. Make sure all you tea party guys remember who was the president when the TARP was put in place, and how the economy looked then.

Would have been much better to lose all those jobs and put all the GM employees and suppliers out of work. Maybe we could have had a worldwide depression - that would have made everyone happy!

Btw - I think it's great news that GM is looking to do this - for AOWR!

Same sentiments here. And most of all, the fact that it's GM and not some other OEM has to be a surprise to most (me anyway). I wonder if GM Racing is going to partner with Cosworth or some other race engine builder, or if they're going to go it alone?

[call_me_andrew]

I don't care what series it is. GM shouldn't be involved in any racing as long as they are working on my dime.

In a perfect world every cent would be returned to the Government(Including interest) and they would declare bankruptcy.

So you don't want GM to do any advertising on your "dime" because... you might profit from it in the long term?

Technically, they've paid back the federal government with stock. The federal government will get all of it's money back upon selling that stock.

Government takovers of failing buisnesses are never intended as permanent solutions; it's merely an attempt to maintain the status quo for a few years.

[Jag_Warrior]

GM is planning an IPO. Does anyone know their schedule for paying back the U.S. Treasury?

They've already paid back approximately $7 billion. The balance of the financial assistance was converted to a 61% equity/stock position. According to the WSJ, the value of GM's stock offering (common and preferred) would need to top $70 billion for the Treasury to break even. Ford is currently valued at around $40 billion, so many analysts think that GM should exceed that figure, and could possibly get to $70 billion shortly after the IPO launch.

The actual "when" of the payback depends on when the Treasury sells its stake. Just like with Citibank.

[Steve-o]

Not a fan of the government bailout...I don't think the government should be conducting business in the private sector...and I don't want to get dragged into a political debate in a racing forum. Folks can have a difference of opinion, that the way it is in the US, you can agree to disagree.

However, I look at this as a possibility of HUGELY GREAT news for this series!! There's enough bad news...bring it on! The IPO will pay my taxes back!

[DBell]

This would be big positive news if it happens. Randy Bernard states in Speed that this is pure speculation. I hope it happens, but until GM confirms it, it's just IndyCar rumors.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-chevy-to-return-in-2012

[garyshell]

Great! More of my Tax Dollars being wasted!


Is there any right answer with you?

This is good for the series, another manufacturer and an American one to boot. Pretty hard to find anything negative about this, except for one or two of you people that the rest of us just wish would go away.

No, of course not.

Gary

[anthonyvop]

GM is planning an IPO. Does anyone know their schedule for paying back the U.S. Treasury?

Regardless, I think this is great news.

Don't hold your breath in spite of the White House Talking Points out there.

[anthonyvop]

If it was Ford I would be supportive. If it was any other manufacturer(Except Chrysler) I would look at it as a positive.

F.Y.I.

I am sure I am the only one who post here who has a financial stake in the success of the ICS. I am involved with the marketing of products with 2 series drivers and working on a third.
I would also financially benefit greatly with a greater motorsports connection and Chevrolet but I am not a hypocrite so I can't support the actions of GM and the Government bailout.

[anthonyvop]

Seriously? None of your federal tax bill is being used for the GM bailout because it was part of TARP, which was deficit funded.

Wow! Talk about Political Speak.

OK....I'll bite.....Who is going to pay for that Deficit???

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Are you one of those phony guys who suddenly realized in 2008 that they don't like paying taxes? Right when the guy they didn't support won the election? And had no problems with paying taxes and the government wasting "their money" when their favorite guy was in charge?

[beachbum]

Are you one of those phony guys who suddenly realized in 2008 that they don't like paying taxes? Right when the guy they didn't support won the election? And had no problems with paying taxes and the government wasting "their money" when their favorite guy was in charge?Some people are just angry at the world. They are part of the "me" generation and are upset they haven't been given their piece of the pie.

Back to the topic. At this point, it is still a rumor with no substance. Maybe it is true and maybe it is wishful thinking. Until I see a press release from GM, I put it in the rumor file. No point in getting fired up about unsubstantiated rumors.

[Chris R]

Great news for IRL if true. I'll believe it when it happens though.... As for all of the bailout talk - they shouldn't have been bailed out in the manner they were... they should pay back everything owed to the gov't before doing things like this.. but since my opinion counts for nothing - woo hooo - more $$ for my sport!!

[BDunnell]

I am sure I am the only one who post here who has a financial stake in the success of the ICS. I am involved with the marketing of products with 2 series drivers and working on a third.

Well done.

[BDunnell]

Obviously you don't pay attention to what a drag he is. Rather than listen to somebody complain about every single news item, I'd prefer to see him leave and go enjoy whatever it is he actually does enjoy. Judging by what we read here, he doesn't enjoy anything, rather sulks in life with no friends.

Oh, I certainly do pay attention to that!

What he actually does enjoy is putting together his highly professional website and YouTube videos, which I am happy to promote with every post I make.

[MDS]

Wow! Talk about Political Speak.

OK....I'll bite.....Who is going to pay for that Deficit???

GM will pay back the remaining $40 billion as soon as they can. I don't know what the schedule is, but I would be willing to be it will be in the next 5 to 10 years.

Yes since it was deficit spending the debt is collecting 2-3 percent interest, which will be more than covered as the government starts spending down its share of GM stock. Since currently the government owns 60 percent of GM's stock the government is all but assured to make a profit, but they have to do it over time or else they would collapse the stock price. If everything goes well the bailout will pay for itself, and the government should make some profit, as they did with most of the bank bailouts.

I am not a fan of this White House or this President, but the mantra of "It's my money and I don't want them racing," is flaws on so many levels I just can't let that stand.

[Chamoo]

If they don't advertise, they don't make money. This is advertising. Sure, it's expensive advertising, but it is still showcasing a product.

[garyshell]

If they don't advertise, they don't make money. This is advertising. Sure, it's expensive advertising, but it is still showcasing a product.


Can I get an "Amen" brothers and sisters? If good old anthony had his way, GM wouldn't spend a dime of "his" money on advertising and thereby have a snowball's chance in hell of ever paying the government back.

Gary

[methanolHuffer]

I'd love to see a strong and prosperous GM. I have my doubts as to whether motorsport is the answer for them.

R&D, Advertisement, all of those things will help.

I'll only start to worry when they buy into an F1 team. ;)

[anthonyvop]

Can I get an "Amen" brothers and sisters? If good old anthony had his way, GM wouldn't spend a dime of "his" money on advertising and thereby have a snowball's chance in hell of ever paying the government back.

Gary

One more time

I DIDN'T WANT THE US GOVERNMENT TO TAKE OVER GM TO BEGIN WITH!!!!

[anthonyvop]

Some people are just angry at the world. They are part of the "me" generation and are upset they haven't been given their piece of the pie.


Are you serious?

I despise the "Me" generation and their entitlement legions.

Those who supported the US bailout of GM are the "Me" generation.

[methanolHuffer]

I don't want to sink this thread, but there are those that would have rather seen GM crash and burn, go completely under, and hopefully start with a fresh sheet a paper.

The same could be prescribed for the top level of north american open wheel racing (the consequences wouldn't be as near devastating).

The difference is vast - I know. But I would have rather both of these things shake out that way than continue down a dead end road. GM's still living on life support, and if they think that they wont need more money in a few more years what's the point?

[SarahFan]

randy says rumor is "pure speculation"

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-chevy-to-return-in-2012/

*carry on

[methanolHuffer]

Peter De Lorenzo is no hack.

Randy would have to say something along those lines in order to not have there thunder stolen. It might upset other prospective companies if they feel they've been left out of the loop.

[downtowndeco]

It's so clear, in a thread like this, who is here because they are a genuine fan and who is here just to piss all over any possible bit of good news Indycar may get. Really, it's so obvious it's almost laughable.

The news, if true, is great news.

[bblocker68]

Hoping for the best. Chevy can have my money if they field engines, aero kits or possibly both!

[Jag_Warrior]

I don't want to sink this thread, but there are those that would have rather seen GM crash and burn, go completely under, and hopefully start with a fresh sheet a paper.

The same could be prescribed for the top level of north american open wheel racing (the consequences wouldn't be as near devastating).

The difference is vast - I know. But I would have rather both of these things shake out that way than continue down a dead end road. GM's still living on life support, and if they think that they wont need more money in a few more years what's the point?

Well, there's a key difference between the IRL and GM though. GM has returned to profitability, while the IRL has never turned a profit. GM is actually paying its own way at this stage based on operational revenue and the IRL continues to exist off of the subsidies provided by IMS.

I respect the opinion of those who say that they are against government assistance to private and public companies. As long as they are also against the existence of the Fed and the FDIC, along with R&D grants and loans given to defense contractors, that position is consistent with a pure libertarian philosophy. But in the specific case of GM, there were two options available to the company in mid 2009: Chapter 7 (liquidation) or Chapter 11 (reorganization). If GM had been liquidated, all operations would have ceased. All of the suppliers connected with the business would have ceased to be paid, and any money owed would not have been forthcoming until the court disbursed proceeds from the asset sale - probably months or years into the future. For businesses that had a larger portion of their business with GM, they would have essentially been out of business. No bank would have continued to provide revolving loans based on invoices to a customer in liquidation.

In the case of a Chapter 11 (which is what GM declared), there needs to be financing in order to continue operating the company, while the court decides the who, the what and how much will be paid to various creditors. That's typically called "debtor-in-possession" financing. In 2007, there were at least two dozen firms that could have probably handled a bankruptcy the size of a GM Chapter 11. But by late 2008/early 2009, there were less than half a dozen... and they weren't chomping at the bit to do big deals either. As we should all remember, the credit markets were essentially frozen at that point. Though some may disagree with the tactics used by the administration, the fact remains that the government simply filled the role of debtor-in-possession financier for GM during the accelerated Chapter 11 process. It is impossible to successfully carry through on a Chapter 11 unless financing can be secured. A company can declare Chapter 11, but the judge will convert it to a Chapter 7 liquidation if said financing cannot be secured by a given date.

All it takes for a car not to be salable is a single missing or defective component. I've seen thousands of cars on various holding lots around Detroit and Warren that couldn't be shipped, for reasons that would amaze most people. So if a supplier of bolts to GM fails, and they also supply Toyota, Nissan and Ford with some other fastener, their production also comes to a halt with that supplier's demise. And I've heard people say that the other OEM's could simply move that component to a new supplier. First, a tool move in ideal circumstances can take 6-12 months. And second, if the process is a patented one, only the tools belong to the OEM... not the process itself. So they can take the tools, but they can't (legally) duplicate the process somewhere else if that's the case.

So, three paragraphs to say: an unfunded Chapter 11 by GM would have led to a Chapter 7... and that would have created the biggest cluster #### that this country has seen since the late 1920's.

As for the IRL (though there was a time when I was one of those who wished for it to die), it's all we have now. And unless it gets itself back on the road to popularity, if it dies, there probably won't be anything for fans of AOWR to watch outside of club and vintage racing.

jm2c

[Lee Roy]

Well, there's a key difference between the IRL and GM though. GM has returned to profitability, while the IRL has never turned a profit. GM is actually paying its own way at this stage based on operational revenue and the IRL continues to exist off of the subsidies provided by IMS.

I respect the opinion of those who say that they are against government assistance to private and public companies. As long as they are also against the existence of the Fed and the FDIC, along with R&D grants and loans given to defense contractors, that position is consistent with a pure libertarian philosophy. But in the specific case of GM, there were two options available to the company in mid 2009: Chapter 7 (liquidation) or Chapter 11 (reorganization). If GM had been liquidated, all operations would have ceased. All of the suppliers connected with the business would have ceased to be paid, and any money owed would not have been forthcoming until the court disbursed proceeds from the asset sale - probably months or years into the future. For businesses that had a larger portion of their business with GM, they would have essentially been out of business. No bank would have continued to provide revolving loans based on invoices to a customer in liquidation.

In the case of a Chapter 11 (which is what GM declared), there needs to be financing in order to continue operating the company, while the court decides the who, the what and how much will be paid to various creditors. That's typically called "debtor-in-possession" financing. In 2007, there were at least two dozen firms that could have probably handled a bankruptcy the size of a GM Chapter 11. But by late 2008/early 2009, there were less than half a dozen... and they weren't chomping at the bit to do big deals either. As we should all remember, the credit markets were essentially frozen at that point. Though some may disagree with the tactics used by the administration, the fact remains that the government simply filled the role of debtor-in-possession financier for GM during the accelerated Chapter 11 process. It is impossible to successfully carry through on a Chapter 11 unless financing can be secured. A company can declare Chapter 11, but the judge will convert it to a Chapter 7 liquidation if said financing cannot be secured by a given date.

All it takes for a car not to be salable is a single missing or defective component. I've seen thousands of cars on various holding lots around Detroit and Warren that couldn't be shipped, for reasons that would amaze most people. So if a supplier of bolts to GM fails, and they also supply Toyota, Nissan and Ford with some other fastener, their production also comes to a halt with that supplier's demise. And I've heard people say that the other OEM's could simply move that component to a new supplier. First, a tool move in ideal circumstances can take 6-12 months. And second, if the process is a patented one, only the tools belong to the OEM... not the process itself. So they can take the tools, but they can't (legally) duplicate the process somewhere else if that's the case.

So, three paragraphs to say: an unfunded Chapter 11 by GM would have led to a Chapter 7... and that would have created the biggest cluster #### that this country has seen since the late 1920's.

As for the IRL (though there was a time when I was one of those who wished for it to die), it's all we have now. And unless it gets itself back on the road to popularity, if it dies, there probably won't be anything for fans of AOWR to watch outside of club and vintage racing.

jm2c


It is so nice to read a poster who is capable of complete thought processes and not just a slinger of hyperbole.

[beachbum]

Are you serious?

I despise the "Me" generation and their entitlement legions.

Those who supported the US bailout of GM are the "Me" generation.Interesting logic.

[anthonyvop]

Interesting logic.

It is obvious.

The reason that the government step in to "save" GM was to protect Union Jobs.

Isn't that the epitome of the "Me" generation lives for?

[anthonyvop]

It's so clear, in a thread like this, who is here because they are a genuine fan and who is here just to piss all over any possible bit of good news Indycar may get. Really, it's so obvious it's almost laughable.

The news, if true, is great news.

For some people there are more important things than the potential success of the ICS.


As i have stated before....I don't want my Tax dollars being used for ANY RACING SERIES!!!!!

[TURN3]

As i have stated before....I don't want my Tax dollars being used for ANY RACING SERIES!!!!!

And as it has been clearly pointed out to you, your tax dollars aren't paying for this.

As many of us have also pointed out, you just want to whine. You whine and moan about everything having to do with Indycar. Every single post of yours has a negative directive or bitch with it. So I ask again, why do you bother? Go away and leave the rest of us to be "fans". Your negativity is unwelcome and makes you look like a. Ass....to the point its obvious what your social situation must be like.

[MDS]

For some people there are more important things than the potential success of the ICS.


As i have stated before....I don't want my Tax dollars being used for ANY RACING SERIES!!!!!


Anthony, we got it, you said your well thought out, flawless, and eloquent point. We get it, you've said it at least twice in this thread and a number of times before with an increasing number of exclamation points. Your objection is noted and given all the weight it deserves. Now lets move on and try not to repeat ourselves.

This should be a thread discussing the supposedly upcoming announcement and what teams my switch to Chevy power, who will be doing the actual building and urging people to write their local GM dealership letting them know how much you support the idea of them entering Indy car. Instead its been a thread responding to one poster's mantra.

I would think that top on GM's shopping list is Ganassi because of the connections on the stockcar side. Also because of NASCAR ties I would bet that Penske would be forbidden from going with GM because of the stockcar ties to Dodge. de Ferran Dragon would probably stay with Honda because of their connection to Penske but everyone else would be fair game. Best case scenario buts Chip and Roger at different manufactures. I'd also think that if KV stays at three cars and Andretti stays at four they both end up on different camps. You would think that KV would go with whoever ends up badging the Cosworth, whether that would be Chevy or potentially Lotus and there's even speculation about Ford.

If this is true than its good for so many reasons beyond the credibility issue, but it means that money is going to be flowing from the manufacture to the teams. It means that Honda is going to have primary testing teams and GM is going to have testing teams.

For example in the late 90s Alex Zanradi and Juan Pablo Montoya both had probably 20 days in the car before they started their first season because Honda paid for five days of testing and Goodyear paid for another four. Honda hasn't paid for any off-season engine testing for the last three or four years because they don't have to. GM comes in, both teams will have testing programs, which will lead to more experienced drivers.

[MDS]

Via Twitter Marshall Pruitt has confirmed General Motors Racing will have a press conference on Friday.

Its looking more and more like GM is returning to Indy. The exact details of their program will come over the course of 2011

[garyshell]

One more time

I DIDN'T WANT THE US GOVERNMENT TO TAKE OVER GM TO BEGIN WITH!!!!


So what? They did. That is in the past. What you are bitchin' about NOW is that they are actually doing some marketing via the IndyCar series. And we all know by now that this is REALLY the issue with you. You don't want to see any sort of success for the series. Despite any sort of protestation you make to the contrary, you have made this abundantly clear.

Gary

[Easy Drifter]

Much as I hated the bailout, and yes us Canucks put in a huge amount as well, the demise of GM, however structured would have severely impacted the economy of both countries. So far Canada has sort of come out of things better than most but we are still hurting big time too. Our banking industry/loans ratio is pretty good.
If GM had failed completely not only would the US being in more deep poo but so would have been the world. Chyrsler was a minor player and Fiat (Italy) bailed them sort of out. It has hurt Italy economicaly. Hopefully Chrysler/Fiat etc will become strong.
Relating world economics to one company, or even one country today is impossible. The US is still the most powerful but by no means the only major player. We, and I include Canada, have to realize the China, India, Japan, Korea and to some extent Russia are major players on the world stage.
Back to the original premise you have advertise to sell your product. Exactly how that is done is something that all the market survey's and so called gurus have never totally figured out.
If GM get into IC and produce a competitive engine the marketing premise is great. If it flops----Ouch!
Changing direction slightly they would be well advised to utilize an established race engine manufacturer with turbo experience. There are several taxi cab and WOO engine builders who can build powerful engines but they lack turbo experience.
If GM is coming in, development needs to start quickly. One thing that has always hurt all US manufacturers in recent times is their lead time. Other companies get things done far quicker and in racing it has to be done 3 days ago not next week.

[NickFalzone]

Saw this on Jayski:

Chevy back in Indy Car?: General Motors Co. and its motorsports entity - GM Racing - has committed to fielding a Chevrolet-branded Twin-Turbo V6 racing engine to compete against Honda in the IndyCar Series beginning with the 2012 season. The announcement will be made this Friday, November 12, at a venue yet to be determined. Chip Ganassi, after an intense flirtation with Ford where he considered joining their NASCAR program, is instead committing to a relationship with GM Racing and Chevrolet in NASCAR starting in 2011 and in IndyCar beginning in 2012. Ganassi had apparently been leaning toward going with Ford over the last several weeks but once Ganassi learned that GM was going "all-in" for a new IndyCar racing engine program, his decision to go with GM was a fait accompli. Two details that could not be confirmed at post time are whether or not Ganassi would have an exclusive with the new Chevrolet-branded Indy V6 for the first season (in part from Autoextremist.com (http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/2010/11/7/fumes.html))

[FormerFF]

It is obvious.

The reason that the government step in to "save" GM was to protect Union Jobs.

Isn't that the epitome of the "Me" generation lives for?

If you investigate the deal, you'll see that the union membership took quite a cramdown : http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/29/news/economy/auto_rescue/


Entry level factory jobs at GM now pay $14 per hour.

In a severe recession with severe unemployment, saving jobs is an obvious need, union or otherwise.

[TURN3]

So if this is a Chevrolet "branded" engine, a.) What expense do they really have into it outside of marketing? b.) Who's engine and technology is it really. Back in the day, Penske's Illmor carried the badge but I believe Roger has monopolized the Honda stable with that company these days. Cosworth was linked up with Ford but did allow the uncompetitive version of the Chevy to use their engine when Honda and Toyota were spanking them (and I might add that the Cosworth was more than competitive). I think it is a stretch that Cosworth will be with anybody but Lotus given the K link in the KV. So who else is out there that can be competitive where Chevy would consider being a badge?

[beachbum]

It is obvious.

The reason that the government step in to "save" GM was to protect Union Jobs.

Isn't that the epitome of the "Me" generation lives for?In that case, you can't watch any major sports as most stadiums are funded by government bonds, free land (http://www.gothamgazette.com/stadiums/) , etc. That new auto factories all over the South that are helping the revival of the Southern economy? Funded by tax breaks - your taxes make up the difference.

When I referred to the "me" generation, I was suggesting that some people don't think they have any social responsibility to help others, as suggested in this New York Times article (http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/17/the-me-generation/) about the "me" generation. It is an attitude of privilege, and every person for themselves. Its all about "Me" and screw the other guy.


Saw this on Jayski:

Chevy back in Indy Car?: General Motors Co. and its motorsports entity - GM Racing - has committed to fielding a Chevrolet-branded Twin-Turbo V6 racing engine to compete against Honda in the IndyCar Series beginning with the 2012 season. (in part from Autoextremist.com (http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/2010/11/7/fumes.html))Jayski also stated

AND "This is pure speculation," IZOD IndyCar Series CEO Randy Bernard told SPEED.com.

Let's see what happens on Friday as suggested by the original article. Personally, I think it would be great if true, but a turbo V6 project might also be in response to the production based Ford and Honda V6 projects in Le Mans and ALMS. That would make sense considering the Chevrolet involvement in racing in those series and other European sedan racing series.

[beachgirl]

If you investigate the deal, you'll see that the union membership took quite a cramdown : http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/29/news/economy/auto_rescue/


Entry level factory jobs at GM now pay $14 per hour.

In a severe recession with severe unemployment, saving jobs is an obvious need, union or otherwise.

Don't bother offering up facts - he won't believe them. He's got his very own agenda, and facts are irrelevant.

[Chamoo]

This could really stir the pot for 2012. Especially if we get a third manufacturer (FIAT seems very interested as well behind the scenes), each manufacturer will most likely have a main testing team or two, which would help bring the quality of teams up outside of simply Penske and Ganassi.

What if a smaller team like Dreyer & Reinbold or Dale Coyne was aligned with a third manufacturer? They'd immediately shoot up the power rankings in Indycar.

[Enjun Pullr]

I'm not sure whether it is Jayski or someone else who made this comment:

"Two details that could not be confirmed at post time are whether or not Ganassi would have an exclusive with the new Chevrolet-branded Indy V6 for the first season."

The idea of an exclusive engine deal for one or several teams is contratry to the facts as previously announced by IndyCar. Hopefully there is some truth to the other details rumored.

[Chamoo]

I'm not sure whether it is Jayski or someone else who made this comment:

"Two details that could not be confirmed at post time are whether or not Ganassi would have an exclusive with the new Chevrolet-branded Indy V6 for the first season."

The idea of an exclusive engine deal for one or several teams is contratry to the facts as previously announced by IndyCar. Hopefully there is some truth to the other details rumored.

I'm pretty sure Jayski just copy and pasted part of the De Lorenzo article from Autoextremist.com.

I think details of how the teams are going to be paired up with engine manufacturers will come down the road. At one point, Curt Cavin mentioned that a draft of sorts is a possibility (this was months ago).

Who does Honda keep as their main team? Would they keep Penske or AGR?

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Who does Honda keep as their main team? Would they keep Penske or AGR?

Who makes their IndyCar engines?

[Chamoo]

Who makes their IndyCar engines?

Well, there are a lot of rumors that Ilmor will sign an agreement with GM, if that was the point you were trying to make.

[vintage]

Hell Yeah!!! AR1 confirms as FACT!!!

I'm putting an Indy sticker on my Vette!

[NickFalzone]

Curt Cavin said this earlier today on Twitter:

@CurtCavin: Chevy #IndyCar (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23IndyCar) announcement Friday at 10 a.m. at Indy museum.

[SUBARUTEAM]

should be good. dario. scott and graham in chevy's!!!

[Chamoo]

should be good. dario. scott and graham in chevy's!!!

I doubt anything will be announced regarding Chip moving to GM in 2012 if a deal has been agreed upon. He isn't stupid enough to put that information out there this early. If he, or any Izod Indycar team wants to get the same engines everyone else gets, they will all say they are going to evaluate their options, but no one will confirm any deals with anyone asides from Honda.

[TURN3]

I doubt anything will be announced regarding Chip moving to GM in 2012 if a deal has been agreed upon. He isn't stupid enough to put that information out there this early. If he, or any Izod Indycar team wants to get the same engines everyone else gets, they will all say they are going to evaluate their options, but no one will confirm any deals with anyone asides from Honda.

Precisely

[Scotty G.]

should be good. dario. scott and graham in chevy's!!!

Dario may not even be racing in Indy Cars in 2012. This is great news for Graham though and he likely becomes the Indy Car face of Chevy, by 2012 (like Hornish was in the early 2000's).


Its obviously a positive for an American racing series to actually have an American engine manufacturer in the series again. Pretty sad, we haven't had any in many years.

But we had Chevy in the early 2000's, remember. And they could not keep up with the Honda yen, which pushed both them and Toyota out the door.

Hope they decide to spend some dough this time. Ganassi and Panther would be the two obvious choices, as the "house" teams. I'd be shocked if either aren't a part of the Chevy team.

And this also paves the way, for Tony Stewart Racing and Rick Hendrick Racing (and a couple of their drivers) to race in the Indy 500 in 2012. That has been the main holdup all along. The Honda thing. Now, that goes out the window.

Randy knows what he wants. And he seems to actually have a clue how to go get it.

[nigelred5]

So I am suppose to approve of my Tax dollars being taken from me and given to what was once a poorly run private company just so the politicians can pay back the Unions for all their help?

No! I am not!

And if you think I am the only one against Government Bailouts then you weren't paying attention last Tuesday!


So you'd rather have a poorly run government owned company flounder with no marketing, no support and run like say medicare with zero chance of success? Give them a g-d chance. You might get a few of those tax dollars back.

Sure, everyone apposed to the bailout would still rather see GM fail and have ZERO chance of ever seeing the bailout funds repaid and still have our great grandchildren shoulder the tax burden. You own the damn company right now, maybe a little support would be in order. I didn't like or agree with the bailout any more than you, I CERTAINLY didn't agree with the unions owning one red cent of ANYTHNG, And They had better re-consider shifting production of anything more to China, but the flippin money is spent. Get over it.
We voted a lot of the a$$e$ out, we'll get the rest soon enough. ;)

[DBell]

I know AR1's been reporting this and to give them credit, it appears they got this one right. Autosport and Speed are now reporting GM is announcing an IndyCar program.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88123

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-chevy-deal-imminent.

Great news for IndyCar. It would be great if Ford decided to do the same.

[nigelred5]

I'm just glad to see ANYONE else join the fray. Hopefully we're now actually talking about 3 engine manufacturers in Indycar. Honda (In-house?), Chevy (ILMOR?) and Lotus(Cosworth?) I'm very interested in seeing the details surrounding the Chevy Engine.

[call_me_andrew]

I am somewhat dissapointed by this move. I was hoping the engines would be badged as Buicks.

[Placid]

Is there any chance that GM may get involved in Formula 1 in the future?

[Easy Drifter]

GM has never shown much interest in F1.
Unless the engine formula was the same or almost the same very unlikely. A F1 engine program would be vastly more expensive than an Indy deal at the moment.

[Jag_Warrior]

Is there any chance that GM may get involved in Formula 1 in the future?

Remember the Caddy LMP program? It was actually getting to terms with the competition when they pulled the plug, but they stayed lost in the forest for several seasons leading up to that. IMO GM isn't ready for the level of engineering competition (or the expenditure) that F1 presents just yet. Best that they learn how to walk again before they try to run. Just a year or so ago, they were having problems crawling. But depending on the who's and what's of this program, this might be a good start for the "new GM".

[MDS]

Rumor is that GM has snagged Penske, not Ganassi, or potentially both top teams, for 2012. I won't make too much of a deal of GM getting Illmor, if that's the case. A lot of that info is proprietary and with a new formula the last 12 years worth of notes won't be worth that much, but it does make them a player outside the box.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-chevy-picks-penske/

I wonder how/if Cosworth fits into the picture.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I want to thank all you guys for letting Anthony (crapaholic) Vpop or whatever his name is, hi jack a completely positive thread . If ever there was a time to ban someone it is now. Sheesh .

[nigelred5]

I am somewhat dissapointed by this move. I was hoping the engines would be badged as Buicks.

I'm hoping for some buick badged enines myself. I'm chompin at the bit for my Buick-badged Opel Insignia OPC Touring Wagon. :)

I don't see GM using the Buick name in racing any time soon. I think they should fight the "Old Fogie" brand image with a couple more HI-PO street offerings first, THEN maybe hit touring cars or open wheelers again. Buick was the turbo-charged GM brand and is offering turbo-4's in their cars again that Chevy isn't.

[nigelred5]

I'm hoping for some buick badged enines myself. I'm chompin at the bit for my Buick-badged Opel Insignia OPC Touring Wagon. :)

I don't see GM using the Buick name in racing any time soon. I think they should fight the "Old Fogie" brand image with a couple more HI-PO street offerings first, THEN maybe hit touring cars or open wheelers again. Buick was the turbo-charged GM brand and is offering turbo-4's in their cars again that Chevy isn't.

I was actually just reading one report on tomorrows scheduled announcement that speculated Cadillac might be the brand. I'd still bank on Chevy being the brand.

[nigelred5]

I was actually just reading one report on tomorrows scheduled announcement that speculated Cadillac might be the brand. I'd still bank on Chevy being the brand.

[garyshell]

Anyone know if there will be live web coverage of the announcement?

Gary

[DBell]

Anyone know if there will be live web coverage of the announcement?

Gary

Gray, I saw this at Speed. It looks like they are streaming it live.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-speedcom-to-stream-chevy-press-conference-live

[Steve-o]

Anyone know if there will be live web coverage of the announcement?

Gary
http://www.livestream.com/indycar

[MDS]

Seriously, 10 a.m. means 10 a.m.

Could they once start an announcement on time?

Clearly its Chevy coming back though

[jwhite9185]

I doubt anything will be announced regarding Chip moving to GM in 2012 if a deal has been agreed upon. He isn't stupid enough to put that information out there this early. If he, or any Izod Indycar team wants to get the same engines everyone else gets, they will all say they are going to evaluate their options, but no one will confirm any deals with anyone asides from Honda.

According to Autosport, Penske have announced they will be using Chevys from 2012.

[Chris R]

So how does Ilmor fit into this? They are rebuilding Honda's now right? Are they going back to Chevy??

Gotta say - the pictures of the new car are looking better as they refine the concept / get better "photos"

I am genuinely excited/hopeful for 2012

[bblocker68]

Congrats everyone. We officially have another horse in the race and I'm happy to see it!!!! Turbo's baby!

[Enjun Pullr]

Ilmor's partnership with Honda had been reduced to rebuilding approx. 20% of the current engine pool. There were no plans for their involvement in design and development of the new Honda V6, and that came straight from HPD a few months ago.

That might mean 2011 rebuilds are all handled by HPD, but otherwise nothing has changed. Ilmor builds the 2012 Chevy V6 as a joint venture with GM, Penske makes a nice cut, and away we go.

That should also be two more nails in the coffin for the notion of Delta as a viable competitor. To both Penske and major manufacturers, that idea didn't gain much traction.

[anthonyvop]

Ilmor's partnership with Honda had been reduced to rebuilding approx. 20% of the current engine pool. There were no plans for their involvement in design and development of the new Honda V6, and that came straight from HPD a few months ago.

That might mean 2011 rebuilds are all handled by HPD, but otherwise nothing has changed. Ilmor builds the 2012 Chevy V6 as a joint venture with GM, Penske makes a nice cut, and away we go.

That should also be two more nails in the coffin for the notion of Delta as a viable competitor. To both Penske and major manufacturers, that idea didn't gain much traction.

Or


Our sources also call for Ilmor Engineering, Honda's current partner for its IZOD IndyCar Series engine program, to break with the Japanese manufacturer and focus solely on Chevy's new 2.4L twin-turbo V6 IndyCar engine. Ilmor had been with Honda since its entry into the Indy Racing League in 2003 and did more than 50 percent of the workload of assembling and re-building engines along with Honda Performance Development.

HPD president Erik Berkman was unavailable for comment on Thursday.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-chevy-picks-penske/

Usually when a manufacture enters a series the established competitors issue a release welcoming them into the fold..........Hmmmm

[DBell]

Or



http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-chevy-picks-penske/

Usually when a manufacture enters a series the established competitors issue a release welcoming them into the fold..........Hmmmm

This is from the Speed article:

Erik Berkman, Honda Performance Development President: “We want to take this opportunity to welcome Chevrolet back to the IZOD IndyCar Series. Although we are certainly proud of HPD’s numerous accomplishments during our tenure as single engine supplier to the Series – including an active and unprecedented streak of five consecutive Indianapolis 500s completed without an engine failure – we have repeatedly and unequivocally expressed our desire for engine competition within the Series, dating even from our first days of sole supply, in 2006. We look forward to renewing our relationship with Chevrolet as competitors on the race track and giving the fans of open-wheel racing a spirited and challenging rivalry.”



http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-general-motors-returns

I'm glad to see another manufacturer in the mix. Sounds like it's an engine deal, didn't see anything said about making body kits.

[MDS]

I'm glad to see another manufacturer in the mix. Sounds like it's an engine deal, didn't see anything said about making body kits.

They said there would be an aero kit that will be developed with help from Penske's team.

It looks like we'll have four Aero kits, the Dallara, Lotus, Chevy and Honda.

[Enjun Pullr]

Hey Anthony,

Journalists like Pruett are good about publishing sketchy information from vague sources, present company included.

I picked up the phone and called HPD three months ago. Most of these people will talk, if they know you have a clue.

You can also go thruogh Gordon Kirby's archives and read his interview with Mario Ilien from a few months ago, there was no secret rift developing.

[Steve-o]

Congrats everyone. We officially have another horse in the race and I'm happy to see it!!!! Turbo's baby!

Good news!

[anthonyvop]

Hey Anthony,

Journalists like Pruett are good about publishing sketchy information from vague sources, present company included.

I picked up the phone and called HPD three months ago. Most of these people will talk, if they know you have a clue.

You can also go thruogh Gordon Kirby's archives and read his interview with Mario Ilien from a few months ago, there was no secret rift developing.

I guess time will tell.

[NickFalzone]

nice promo vid of Chevy's history in IndyCar:

ee_vKZ5ojno

[NickFalzone]

Today's press conference:

PV11b1_L1Z4

[Steve-o]

quotes from Helio, Barnhart, Penske, and track officials.

http://www.fanviewpoint.com/2010/11/chevrolet-returns-to-indycar.html

my closing...The feeling here is this is outstanding news. This series has struggled to maintain it's place as a major motorsport, having been plagued by low ratings and poor attendance. The news should help track promoters market the series in 2011, never mind 2012. This also signals a future return to prominence for the embattled Bowtie brand. We've seen how Honda engineers have devolved superior products through on track engineering. Now we'll see if GM can parlay on track success to successes at the local Chevy dealerships. Don't bet against the Bowtie on this one.

On another note...with Simona so prominently featured today, can we take from her appearance that she may be headed to Penske?

[TURN3]

They said there would be an aero kit that will be developed with help from Penske's team.

It looks like we'll have four Aero kits, the Dallara, Lotus, Chevy and Honda.

I have to think that Cosworth will have a card in all of this before 2012 also. Considering Kalkoven owns it with Forsythe, along with the Lotus commitment to KV and the series, I would not be surprised if we end up with Lotus Cosworth also.

That would leave Dallara as the only non-engine supplier on the board with an aero kit. Might make slim pickins' for teams wanting to go with them.

[DBell]

I have to think that Cosworth will have a card in all of this before 2012 also. Considering Kalkoven owns it with Forsythe, along with the Lotus commitment to KV and the series, I would not be surprised if we end up with Lotus Cosworth also.

That would leave Dallara as the only non-engine supplier on the board with an aero kit. Might make slim pickins' for teams wanting to go with them.

Cosworth has said earlier it would take a manufacturer to badge them for Cosworth to do it. They were interested if that was the case, but not interested in coming in as Cosworth. I'm not sure Lotus is going to shell out the money to do that. Now Ford seems to be doing well now and the combination of them and Chevy plus Honda would really be something to build on. Ford-Cosworth....some things just belong together.

[Enjun Pullr]

I'd agree with that 100%, although the Ford/Cosworth is pure speculation. Ford continues to publicly maintain a lack of interest. Publicly.

[Mad_Hatter]

If I am Mazda or Lotus or even Ford I would try to contract the engine work to an independent builder for one engine and possibly split the cost between two or more manufacturers.

Id especially consider a 4-cylinder entry. With the others (so far) being 6 cylinders there is an opportunity for special concessions for 4 cylinders, seeing as they would be at an inherent disadvantage.

Ford and Mazda are in direct competition, but their overall costs are lower too making for a higher potential for ROI.

[call_me_andrew]

How are Ford and Mazda in "direct" competition. Ford still owns 13.4% of Mazda.

Granted that's not controlling interest, but still impressive.

[vintage]

On another note...with Simona so prominently featured today, can we take from her appearance that she may be headed to Penske?

Dude - you're in Simaniacs fantasy land. Wake up!!!

[Mad_Hatter]

How are Ford and Mazda in "direct" competition. Ford still owns 13.4% of Mazda.

Granted that's not controlling interest, but still impressive.

I know, thats what I meant. Maybe I should've said "would be in direct competition". Should they both enter the series.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Interesting story. Good one too....and good news.

As for Penske being behind it, no surprise there. He supports the Detroit automakers as a rule when he can; and by doing this and getting Penske specific aero, he is trying to rebuild his "unfair advantage". There is a reason he is called the Captain...

[Jag_Warrior]

How are Ford and Mazda in "direct" competition. Ford still owns 13.4% of Mazda.

Granted that's not controlling interest, but still impressive.

Ford's Mazda stake is down to 11% now and should be down to less than 3% by the end of this year. The two companies are still going to work together on certain projects, but they're no longer joined at the hip. Even when CCWS voted Ford Racing off the (sinking) island several years ago, Mazda remained involved with the series.

But still, Penske/Ilmor obviously had a big hand in getting GM involved. I don't think Kalkhoven (or anyone else involved with the IRL) has any similar relationship with Ford Racing. Mazda, I don't know about.

[Steve-o]

Dude - you're in Simaniacs fantasy land. Wake up!!!

Whoa. thanks for that. I had no idea. :burnout:

You can put me in the clueless pile when it comes to driver politics. All's I was pointing out was how prominent she was in this announcement. No Danica...She (simona) seems a bit connected.

[garyshell]

Usually when a manufacture enters a series the established competitors issue a release welcoming them into the fold..........Hmmmm


This is from the Speed article:

Erik Berkman, Honda Performance Development President: “We want to take this opportunity to welcome Chevrolet back to the IZOD IndyCar Series. Although we are certainly proud of HPD’s numerous accomplishments during our tenure as single engine supplier to the Series – including an active and unprecedented streak of five consecutive Indianapolis 500s completed without an engine failure – we have repeatedly and unequivocally expressed our desire for engine competition within the Series, dating even from our first days of sole supply, in 2006. We look forward to renewing our relationship with Chevrolet as competitors on the race track and giving the fans of open-wheel racing a spirited and challenging rivalry.”



Once again our intrepid "reporter" ignores the facts to suit his agenda in his attempt to piss in our Wheaties.

Gary

[garyshell]

On another note...with Simona so prominently featured today, can we take from her appearance that she may be headed to Penske?

Oh man, wouldn't THAT be incredible!! Not that I expect it, but still...

Gary

[garyshell]

How are Ford and Mazda in "direct" competition. Ford still owns 13.4% of Mazda.

Granted that's not controlling interest, but still impressive.

Didn't Ford recently sell, or announce it intends to sell, its interest in Mazda?

Gary

[Steve-o]

Oh man, wouldn't THAT be incredible!! Not that I expect it, but still...

Gary
I'm far from a 'simaniac' has somone referred to me. :s mokin: But I think there has to be something to the fact that she was one of the driver's there. If nothing else, a shrewd recognition of press opportunity. IndyCar supplied quotes from Hildebrand, Power, Simona, Helio, and Plowman. Can we assume that they are the new 'chevy' team maybe? There has to be more to this than just opportunity for face time.

[call_me_andrew]

Didn't Ford recently sell, or announce it intends to sell, its interest in Mazda?

Gary

Ford used to own 33.3% of Mazda. Under Japanese law, if you own one-third of a company you can have veto power over the board of directors.

http://miscstuff.wordpress.com/2008/11/18/ford-to-dump-mazda-sell-20-stake/

[nigelred5]

I'm far from a 'simaniac' has somone referred to me. :s mokin: But I think there has to be something to the fact that she was one of the driver's there. If nothing else, a shrewd recognition of press opportunity. IndyCar supplied quotes from Hildebrand, Power, Simona, Helio, and Plowman. Can we assume that they are the new 'chevy' team maybe? There has to be more to this than just opportunity for face time.

It's the off season, there's probably not a lot of drivers in town or available to choose from, and I suspect they wanted at least one of the female drivers there for the announcement. I doubt Milka was high on the list, Sarah's not a full time driver any longer. Considering The Danica was in Phoenix for Nationwide qualifying and it's highly unlikely she will be powered by a Chevy (IF she's still in indycars by 2010) she probably wasn't available or even their first choice. I wouldn't read too much into he drivers that were there other than the obvious in Helio and Power. A lot can and will happen to the driver line ups between now and the 2012 season.

[nigelred5]

Ford used to own 33.3% of Mazda. Under Japanese law, if you own one-third of a company you can have veto power over the board of directors.

http://miscstuff.wordpress.com/2008/11/18/ford-to-dump-mazda-sell-20-stake/

They have been slowly selling off their interest in Mazda for a while now. Ford avoided the government handouts by selling off their assets and Mazda is basically the last to go. Ford and Mazda had a good number of inter-twined poducts that needed to run their course as well. There's a lot of question how well Mazda will be able to survive without Ford's interest. I'd suspect Mazda will seek out a new partner fairly quickly, and I wouldn't be suprized to see a Chinese suitor to look for Mazda's well established dealership network to enter the US, but that's just me speculating.

[Jag_Warrior]

I'm far from a 'simaniac' has somone referred to me. :s mokin: But I think there has to be something to the fact that she was one of the driver's there. If nothing else, a shrewd recognition of press opportunity. IndyCar supplied quotes from Hildebrand, Power, Simona, Helio, and Plowman. Can we assume that they are the new 'chevy' team maybe? There has to be more to this than just opportunity for face time.

I don't know if I'm a "Simonamaniac" or not, but since there aren't really any other IRL drivers that draw my interest right now (and I'm not expecting Scott Speed, A.J. Allmendinger, Lewis Hamilton or Kamui Kobayashi to be in the IRL in 2012... or ever), any sliver of hope that things will get better for Simona makes me happy enough. Good catch on the press conference. :up:

[SarahFan]

It's so clear, in a thread like this, who is here because they are a genuine fan and who is here just to piss all over any possible bit of good news Indycar may get. Really, it's so obvious it's almost laughable.

The news, if true, is great news.



A guy/gal who has never been to a race determining who is and isn't a fan

Classic

[call_me_andrew]

New GM shares started the day at $32 and closed just above $34 with a high of $36. You're welcome, America.

[downtowndeco]

I repeat; It's so clear, in a thread like this, who is here because they are a genuine fan and who is here just to piss all over any possible bit of good news Indycar may get. Really, it's so obvious it's almost laughable.

And add;If the shoe fits, wear it.



A guy/gal who has never been to a race determining who is and isn't a fan

Classic

[F1boat]

Good news for IRL!

[TURN3]

I repeat; It's so clear, in a thread like this, who is here because they are a genuine fan and who is here just to piss all over any possible bit of good news Indycar may get. Really, it's so obvious it's almost laughable.

And add;If the shoe fits, wear it.

With hesitation to get involved, I think when you posted this comment earlier it was dead on accurate with who it was intended for. I don't see that being the case here with SarahFan. He is a genuine fan and is behind the series. I don't see what he is "pissing" on here to ruin "news" for everybody? In this case, your comment doesn't seem to fit the action.

[anthonyvop]

New GM shares started the day at $32 and closed just above $34 with a high of $36. You're welcome, America.

Dear GM,

Where is the rest of my money?

Regards,

America

[Hoop-98]

Dear GM,

Where is the rest of my money?

Regards,

America

So Anthony, I guess you have been posting about the ALMS GM cars for years now eh?

Guess I missed those posts about your fave series.

rh

[garyshell]

Dear GM,

Where is the rest of my money?

Regards,

America


Your money was paid back in the first sale of GM stock. I told them to hold on to my money so you could get paid first and stop bitchin' about it.

Gary

[chuck34]

Your money was paid back in the first sale of GM stock. I told them to hold on to my money so you could get paid first and stop bitchin' about it.

Gary

No, that's not true.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AB43H20101117?pageNumber=2

The U.S. Treasury will remain GM's largest shareholder for now. U.S. officials have said unloading the entire stake is likely to take several years.

The stock price will need to rise by 47 percent to $48.58 -- about what it costs to fill the gasoline tank of a 2010 Chevy Malibu LS 4-door sedan -- for the U.S. government to break even on its follow-on stock sales.

[anthonyvop]

Your money was paid back in the first sale of GM stock. I told them to hold on to my money so you could get paid first and stop bitchin' about it.

Gary

No they didn't. They raised $20.1 Billion. Well short of the total bailout.

in case you don't believe me...http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AB43H20101117


The stock price will need to rise by 47 percent to $48.58 -- about what it costs to fill the gasoline tank of a 2010 Chevy Malibu LS 4-door sedan -- for the U.S. government to break even on its follow-on stock sales.

Not very likely!

[anthonyvop]

So Anthony, I guess you have been posting about the ALMS GM cars for years now eh?

Guess I missed those posts about your fave series.

rh

Actually I have. But not here as this is a INDY CAR FORUM!!!

[TURN3]

Actually I have. But not here as this is a INDY CAR FORUM!!!

EXACTLY!! So please take your misguided and uninformed philosophy of GM's "obligation" to you to a political forum. I don't think anybody here wants to hear your sob story.

[garyshell]

Your money was paid back in the first sale of GM stock. I told them to hold on to my money so you could get paid first and stop bitchin' about it.


No they didn't. They raised $20.1 Billion. Well short of the total bailout.

Obviously, you stopped reading at the first sentence in my post.

Gary

[garyshell]

No, that's not true.

It would appear you also stopped reading at the first sentence of my post.

In the second sentence, I said I had told the government to hold on to my share so anthony could get paid first and maybe he'd stop bitchin'.

Gary

[Enjun Pullr]

"They raised $20.1 Billion"

The most GM will be investing in their IndyCar program is 0.2% of that amount. Could be closer to 0.1%.

Do you think GM spends more on U.S. marketing than Nissan? In the recession year of 2009, Nissan invested close to $700M on that expense. GM just elected to add a $20-$40M marketing expense on IndyCar. It will sell cars.

Gary gets his money back in six months, when the remaining GM shares are approved for public trade. If the economy and the sound guidance of GM continues to follow recent trends, the taxpayers will be refunded in full. I presume the Treasury keeps the excess if the share price commands it.

If there was a checkbox asking me to donate 0.1% of my taxes to fund some entertaining research project that created jobs and prevented a massive private sector collapse, I'd have enough reasons to sign up.

[TURN3]

"They raised $20.1 Billion"

The most GM will be investing in their IndyCar program is 0.2% of that amount. Could be closer to 0.1%.

Do you think GM spends more on U.S. marketing than Nissan? In the recession year of 2009, Nissan invested close to $700M on that expense. GM just elected to add a $20-$40M marketing expense on IndyCar. It will sell cars.

Gary gets his money back in six months, when the remaining GM shares are approved for public trade. If the economy and the sound guidance of GM continues to follow recent trends, the taxpayers will be refunded in full. I presume the Treasury keeps the excess if the share price commands it.

If there was a checkbox asking me to donate 0.1% of my taxes to fund some entertaining research project that created jobs and prevented a massive private sector collapse, I'd have enough reasons to sign up.

Correct, the Treasury does stand to make tons of money off this and the other bailouts. But the thing that gets me is that all the Feds did was print more money and increase the deficit. Not a single tax payer has paid a dollar more to fund the bailouts.

If it can be separated from one person's obsession, this really does put GM in a good position in terms of marketing awareness and correlation to their product. That is EXACTLY why Lotus is getting involved, to raise their brand awareness. Some (Someone actually) would have you believe that they must pay back their debt BEFORE they grow their company. Apparently oblivious to the fact a company must profit before it can repay debts. This person apparently believes that is possible without marketing and advertising.

[Enjun Pullr]

Cheers, that's the way the picture looked to me. If I'm not mistaken, the auto manufacturer subsidies found consensus across the political and financial spectrums.

Diminished marketing investment and declining sales leaves us all to watch the money disappear. Then the jobs.

[Hoop-98]

Actually I have. But not here as this is a INDY CAR FORUM!!!

Geez Google is failing me, it can't seem to find all those posts, just keeps finding your Indycar complaints about GM :)

[Enjun Pullr]

Poor dude, next somebody is going to start a countdown.

Anthony, you get major props from me of you are in fact sponsoring Rally Car. That is a luminous display to watch. ;}

[Hoop-98]

Poor dude, next somebody is going to start a countdown.

Anthony, you get major props from me of you are in fact sponsoring Rally Car. That is a luminous display to watch. ;}

Naw no countdowns here, just my lil BS meter pegged. We have wandered far and wide, I think in my opinion, this news has been ok to good, but my socks stayed attached.

There is some contention here about people who love to pp in Indycar bowls of cereal, and some genuine concerned fans IMO.

Only Anthony would be on my list of people who are entirely disingenuous and slam every INDY car move. Others like to damn with faint praise or concern much as "Indycool" posted about CART/CC.

Of course, all we are saying here (and for certain all I am posting) are our opinions.

your mileage may vary (but I did get a few things right by picking the most obvious solutions right EP-JT :) )

BTW Split 15 years, reunion 4, when will we stop looking for the remedy to burning Atlanta or the South to rise again?. Could it be 2012, or how many years did the last Japanese soldier hold out. (If Drunkchickwithnopantson could post anywhere I would put him as that last soldier, but he suffered enough with MPH stock!).

Hoop

[Enjun Pullr]

Yep, and you got props from me for advocating the solution. Obviously I shouldn't have listened to all the pining about how it could not be afforded.

Or aChevy'd, or aLotused.

[anthonyvop]

Well I guess we just have accept the fact that I don't condone the use of OUR TAX DOLLARS to support a private enterprise and most of you have no problem with it.

[NickFalzone]

Anthony, I don't think it's quite as simple as you make it. Primarily because, we are (at least most of us) IndyCar fans. So for the government to allocate some of its GM advertising money to IndyCar racing, while inherently a possible misuse of tax-dollars, I am an IndyCar fan, so I don't dislike this idea. If the Government said hey, AnthonyVOP we're going to take .001% of our taxes and give them to South Florida Motorsports report to possibly generate some awareness and income for our GM car dealerships in South Florida, I highly doubt you would be complaining or not accept a generous offer. As an IndyCar fan and also a libertarian, I am certainly against the wasteful use of government funds, but I do not find this usage wasteful (as it has marketing possibilities for the GM brand), and secondly I like IndyCar so I support a small chunk of my change going to it. I'm completely for the elimination of funds going to NPR, NEA, PBS, etc. So my bias is that I am ok with govt funds going to racing, and against it going to liberal news/arts organizations. Everyone has a bias and i don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that unless you claim to be a fair and balanced leader.

[TURN3]

...the use of OUR TAX DOLLARS to support a private enterprise...

Is inaccurate as has been explained to you about 8 times. Why don't you get it?

[Hoop-98]

Well I guess we just have accept the fact that I don't condone the use of OUR TAX DOLLARS to support a private enterprise and most of you have no problem with it.

Anthony, with all due respect, GM dollars in ALMS have been going on for years since the bailout. Since google can't find where you have mounted the campaign against this as you have in the case of Indycar could you please point me to your ALMS Chevy outrage if it exists? I must say, I would be less than honest if I didn't say I do not believe you and in my opinion you are far from honest on this issue. However, I would welcome you pointing out the errors of my beliefs, until then I think you are being untruthful, prove me wrong please? Demonstrate how your protest against GM dollars in ALMS were equal or similar to your write your congressman requests for Indycar?

Thanks

rh

[Mark in Oshawa]

All I know is racing is advertising and brand building. If Tony wants to see the government out of GM, the only way this happens if GM is healthy and making money. To do so, they must advertise, and that means racing.

Tony, really, if you understand business, you also understand the second GM acts like the government is in control, they are dead meat. If Obama had his way, they wouldn't be in racing either, and they would be drowning in red ink in 2012 when the GOP wins the election.

Be thankful they are continuing on as normal....it is working. GM is already starting to see black ink on the ledgers....

[Anubis]

Anthony, with all due respect, GM dollars in ALMS have been going on for years since the bailout. Since google can't find where you have mounted the campaign against this as you have in the case of Indycar could you please point me to your ALMS Chevy outrage if it exists? I must say, I would be less than honest if I didn't say I do not believe you and in my opinion you are far from honest on this issue. However, I would welcome you pointing out the errors of my beliefs, until then I think you are being untruthful, prove me wrong please? Demonstrate how your protest against GM dollars in ALMS were equal or similar to your write your congressman requests for Indycar?

Thanks

rh

I wonder what he thinks about the RBS sponsorship of Williams F1? Don't recall seeing tirades against that?

[Jag_Warrior]

No they didn't. They raised $20.1 Billion. Well short of the total bailout.

in case you don't believe me...http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AB43H20101117


The stock price will need to rise by 47 percent to $48.58 -- about what it costs to fill the gasoline tank of a 2010 Chevy Malibu LS 4-door sedan -- for the U.S. government to break even on its follow-on stock sales.

Not very likely!

With an improving economy and a brand portfolio which has been cleaned up (along with the balance sheet), GM as a $50 stock is not at all unlikely - depending on ones time horizon. Right now GM is making about $3000/car in profits, while Ford is making about $2700. At current profit levels, if the market assigned the same P/E ratio to GM as Ford, it would be about a $40 stock. At the same P/E ratio as Tata Motors, it would be a $79 stock! Joe Phillippi of AutoTrends has a 12 month price target of $45 on GM... assuming management continues to follow the plan and deliver desired products at competitive prices.

I went heavy for Ford and Tata last year, so I have no appetite for GM - too many eggs in one basket seldom works out well... and those two have been homeruns thus far. But as automotive stocks go, I wouldn't be shocked to see GM at or around $50 in the next couple of years... depending on how Akerson and his team execute and where the economy is. Right now we're still building cars at a rate barely above the attrition rate, so there's certainly room for growth. But the FACT is, the government had nothing to do with GM's decision to enter Indy car racing, or remain in NASCAR, ALMS, Grand Am or any other series. I'm not aware of anyone in the government signing off on this decision, any more than they've signed off on which suppliers GM uses or which plants build which cars.

If people want to complain about taxpayer funds being (directly) used to fund racing endeavors, that's fine... but they need to start with the Army and National Guard programs that run in several different series. But like so many other issues and topics related to politics we see these days, people typically just piss & moan to piss & moan. :dozey: