Worst corner alterations

[Sonic]

Okay, so it's another "the old days were better" thread - so sue me!

What in your opinions are the worst alterations that have been made to a track? It doesn't have to be limited to current F1 tracks, but seeing as this is the F1 Forum I guess the venue should have hosted a GP before if we are going to lay into it ;)

I'll start the ball rolling;

Eau Rouge - hopefully my mind isn't playing tricks on me but I think they ruined it in 1995ish and turned it into a 2nd gear travesty. Thank the gods that didn't last.

Barcelona - need I say more. That last turn is the epitomey of Mickey mouse.

Brands hatch - Graham hill total ruins the flow of the place.

Aaaaaaannnnnd your turn :)

[Ranger]

130R, Suzuka.

[ShiftingGears]

Changing 130R after McNish's accident. Before it used to be a single apex corner of radius 130m but it was redesigned into a double radius turn to make the corner less challenging, so less accidents would occur.

I can't think of anywhere a chicane was added that was better than the original corner (or lack thereof).

[nigelred5]

EVERYTHING they did to Hockenheim.

Taking the bus stop out of The BUS STOP. Helloooo, that was THE classic chicane.

Tamburello. We all know the tragedy, but that used to be one hell of a corner.

[SGWilko]

Tamburello. We all know the tragedy, but that used to be one hell of a corner.

Modern day F1 would treat Tamburello as a straight these days.......

[Mark]

Eau Rouge - hopefully my mind isn't playing tricks on me but I think they ruined it in 1995ish and turned it into a 2nd gear travesty. Thank the gods that didn't last.

They did, after Senna's crash. Thankfully they put it back soon after.



Barcelona - need I say more. That last turn is the epitomey of Mickey mouse.

Very true, sweeping corner into a long straight which made it great.




Brands hatch - Graham hill total ruins the flow of the place.


That's nothing, they got rid of Dingle Dell! I went down there the year before they changed it and watched the touring cars going through, most of them up on two wheels! Fantastic!

[Ranger]

Modern day F1 would treat Tamburello as a straight these days.......

In 1994 it was exactly the same. But still better than the chicane.

Onboard and Telemetry, full throttle even in the dirty air:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_kQVJnZRyc

[Tazio]

EVERYTHING they did to Hockenheim.

Totally agree, they butchered that track.

The entire Indy F1 Mickey Mouse infield deserves a metion as well. :p

[nigelred5]

Eau Rouge, second gear? I can't say I remember that at all. It's no longer the challenge it once was, but it hasn't exactly slowed down.

[nigelred5]

Totally agree, they butchered that track.

The entire Indy F1 Mickey Mouse infield deserves a metion as well. :p

They actually fixed that for Moto GP, but I doubt we'll ever see F1 cars there again.

[ShiftingGears]

Eau Rouge, second gear? I can't say I remember that at all. It's no longer the challenge it once was, but it hasn't exactly slowed down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjtatuFhA4w

[Sonic]

That's nothing, they got rid of Dingle Dell! I went down there the year before they changed it and watched the touring cars going through, most of them up on two wheels! Fantastic!

True. But the new Turn is a good one, oh and it hurts your backside less - always a plus :)

[schmenke]

EVERYTHING they did to Hockenheim.
...

Totally agree. What was once a classic track completely butchered.

Also, I could do without the first chicane, just after the front straight at Monza.

[Sleeper]

The new Club corner at Silverstone, not as challenging as the old one.

[Sonic]

The new Club corner at Silverstone, not as challenging as the old one.

Amen! Although on the whole Silverstone does tend to get it's track alterations right more often than not (at least in more recent years).

[ykiki]

Estoril. The last few corners had a terrific flow to them and then they put in the chicane (at Tanque I believe) that made the cars look like they were struggling to go around at 20 mph.

[Wilderness]

Second 130R, Hockenheim, Bus Stop and add La Caixa at Catalunya.

[UltimateDanGTR]

sakhir. the corners were better before it was built.

Monaco-where they have taken the barriers further back to make it easier for the drivers-Saint Devote, just after the swimming pool, etc. Not as hard as it once was.

[N. Jones]

The changes they made to Imola in 1994. Maybe a touchy subject but I liked the old layout, even if I never saw an F1 race on it.

[N. Jones]

Totally agree. What was once a classic track completely butchered.

Also, I could do without the first chicane, just after the front straight at Monza.
Oh yeah, I forgot about what happened to Hockenheim!
Actually I think it was city officials who did that because they wanted the highway to run near to through their town.

That chicane at the end of Circuit de Catalyuna is also terrible (did I spell that wrong?).

[Dave Stubbings]

sakhir. the corners were better before it was built.

Monaco-where they have taken the barriers further back to make it easier for the drivers-Saint Devote, just after the swimming pool, etc. Not as hard as it once was.

Arguably it's the same going into the swimming pool. Compare the in-car footage from 1990 or so to today, much less visibility and space going into that section. The same applies going into the Rascasse.

[UltimateDanGTR]

Arguably it's the same going into the swimming pool. Compare the in-car footage from 1990 or so to today, much less visibility and space going into that section. The same applies going into the Rascasse.

Yes, quite agree with this.

Lest we not forget Kyalami in all of this too.

[ioan]

EVERYTHING they did to Hockenheim.


Was going to post this too.
My favorite track before they destroyed it. It had at least 3 obvious overtaking places, now it has maybe 1 left.

[truefan72]

barcelona last turn complex

the entire hockenheim track

[truefan72]

The whole Osterreichring (A1 Ring) after it was dropped from the calendar. Red Bull bought the circuit and it fell into disrepair for years. At one point it looked like this:
http://www.motorsport-total.com/news/images_big/64357.jpg

The future is bright though as it has been revamped and is back on the provisional DTM fixture list for next season. Apparently reopening in April 2011. Sorry not really a corner alteration but fits with the disappointment of watching a track sadly fall from grace.. It would be great to see it back on the F1 Calendar in the coming years. :)

and even that older track was an alteration of the original sweeping track which was glorious.

[Mark]

The whole Osterreichring (A1 Ring) after it was dropped from the calendar. Red Bull bought the circuit and it fell into disrepair for years. At one point it looked like this:

Although that looks shocking, it's probably just in the process of being rebuilt!

Along those likes, Donington Park was savaged in the hope of getting the British GP, which never happened!

[Sonic]

I know I'll probably be stoned for this, buuuuut; I liked the A1 ring. There I've said it. I know it wasn't a patch on the original but it suited modern F1 perfectly with long straights leading to hairpins - it always produced good racing. Plus it still (just about) had character. Plenty of elevation changes, a couple of interesting higher speed turns and a good crowd.

Ok, I'm off to A1 lovers anonymous now ;)

[Mark]

I know I'll probably be stoned for this, buuuuut; I liked the A1 ring. There I've said it. I know it wasn't a patch on the original but it suited modern F1 perfectly with long straights leading to hairpins - it always produced good racing. Plus it still (just about) had character. Plenty of elevation changes, a couple of interesting higher speed turns and a good crowd.

Ok, I'm off to A1 lovers anonymous now ;)

No, totally agree!
While were on the subject of unloved tracks, I liked Buenos Aires too!

[nigelred5]

Oh yeah, I forgot about what happened to Hockenheim!
Actually I think it was city officials who did that because they wanted the highway to run near to through their town.

That chicane at the end of Circuit de Catalyuna is also terrible (did I spell that wrong?).

Naah, it was the greens that wanted the forest back that ruined the track. The A6 Autobahn has run right by the track for decades. I've actually got a photo-radar speeding ticket I got on the autobahn where the local speed limit pops up from 1991. You can see the grandstands in the background ofhte picture :)

[Bruce D]

I thought the Hockenheim change was made to allow more spectators to see the cars more often. Still a tragic loss. Actually that highway cut the very original Hockenheim circuit in half, leading to the version we knew of until 2002.

As for Kyalami, yeah we do all miss it. At least they've finally taken that damn chicane out at the end of the lap to give the track a bit more flow again. Now it's like it was for the F1 in '92 & '93.

As for corners, what about those ones after the hairpin at Montreal? Those sweepers were real "balls" corners before they were removed. And quite frankly the whole Barcelona track sucks and they shouldn't race there.

[fandango]

That chicane at the end of Circuit de Catalyuna is also terrible (did I spell that wrong?).

'fraid so. It's Catalunya, or in Spanish it's Cataluña. The "ny" sound in Catalan is the same as the ñ in Spanish, as in España, which is Espanya in Catalan.


I agree about the chicane. It takes all the fun out of the following corner.

[callum122]

http://www.motorsport-total.com/news/images_big/64357.jpg


Nearly fell out of my chair when I saw this photo. I'm off to join the A1 ring lovers club also, any circuit surrounded by a beautiful alpine forest is a winner for me.

[N. Jones]

'fraid so. It's Catalunya, or in Spanish it's Cataluña. The "ny" sound in Catalan is the same as the ñ in Spanish, as in España, which is Espanya in Catalan.


I agree about the chicane. It takes all the fun out of the following corner.

Thank you. I thought I screwed that up! :D

[Sonic]

No, totally agree!
While were on the subject of unloved tracks, I liked Buenos Aires too!

And that bump.

[V12]

Too many to mention but Hockenheim takes the biscuit for me, all day long. It had a unique layout, longer than average lap length, had a high rate of attrition, plenty of natural overtaking opportunities, then they go and turn it into another anonymous track, even going and planting trees where the old track used to be, ensuring it can never be revived, whereas at least the longer Spa and Nurburgring layouts remain intact.

Speaking of the Nurburgring, I don't like what they did to the first corner there either, replacing the sweeping esses with that slow awkward series of bends.

I also agree with feelings about the A1 Ring. While of course inferior to its predecessor, by modern standards it was actually quite a good track. I don't think F1 will return there though, it has the misfortune of being in the wrong continent for that.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

I know I'll probably be stoned for this, buuuuut; I liked the A1 ring. There I've said it. I know it wasn't a patch on the original but it suited modern F1 perfectly with long straights leading to hairpins - it always produced good racing. Plus it still (just about) had character. Plenty of elevation changes, a couple of interesting higher speed turns and a good crowd.

Ok, I'm off to A1 lovers anonymous now ;)

I actually agree. I'm always baffled when Istanbul is mentioned as Tilke's best trakc. It's the A1 Ring, by far. Fast, racy, beautiful with unrivalled sight lines for spectators.

[Sonic]

I actually agree. I'm always baffled when Istanbul is mentioned as Tilke's best trakc. It's the A1 Ring, by far. Fast, racy, beautiful with unrivalled sight lines for spectators.

Its is perhaps the least well known Tilke track. I don't think I realized he had designed it until perhaps 3 years ago.

[Shifter]

Still pissed about the change to the bus stop in Spa, but I'll take it as is just so long as they don't drop the course from the calender entirely :(

[steveaki13]

I know I'll probably be stoned for this, buuuuut; I liked the A1 ring. There I've said it. I know it wasn't a patch on the original but it suited modern F1 perfectly with long straights leading to hairpins - it always produced good racing. Plus it still (just about) had character. Plenty of elevation changes, a couple of interesting higher speed turns and a good crowd.

Ok, I'm off to A1 lovers anonymous now ;)

Agree totally

Nearly every race held there seemed to have action in it, not a patch on the original as you say, but for modern F1 it was almost like a go kart track.


No, totally agree!
While were on the subject of unloved tracks, I liked Buenos Aires too!


I also liked Buenos Aires.

As for other's

Rascasse ( The old corner was so blind and tight, to easy now).
Old Hockenheim
Bus Stop Chicane
130R
(Not a track alteration but sad that Eau Rouge is too easy these days)
Monaco (The walls being removed from Swimming pool and St. Devote)
Last turn in Spain (Now an acceleration zone rather than a challenge).

[RMLCruzeing82]

Hotel-Kurve at Oscherseleben one of the craziest changes to a track ive ever seen.

like john cleland siad once. the designer wants hanging and shot

[wedge]

The greatest thing I attest most are drivers complaining of kerb heights and to a certain degree, bumps. If kerbs damages the car or whatever, then tough. You're supposed to be the best drivers in the world so demonstrate it.

Knockhill is no longer a thrill of seeing cars kerb-hopping and getting away with much car abuse as possible.


Eau Rouge - hopefully my mind isn't playing tricks on me but I think they ruined it in 1995ish and turned it into a 2nd gear travesty. Thank the gods that didn't last.


Dreadfully scary post-Senna. The GPDA was reformed and we had tyre chicanes suddenly sprouted on the middle of asphalt in places like Canada and Spain.


I know I'll probably be stoned for this, buuuuut; I liked the A1 ring. There I've said it. I know it wasn't a patch on the original but it suited modern F1 perfectly with long straights leading to hairpins - it always produced good racing. Plus it still (just about) had character. Plenty of elevation changes, a couple of interesting higher speed turns and a good crowd.


Too many to mention but Hockenheim takes the biscuit for me, all day long. It had a unique layout, longer than average lap length, had a high rate of attrition, plenty of natural overtaking opportunities, then they go and turn it into another anonymous track, even going and planting trees where the old track used to be, ensuring it can never be revived, whereas at least the longer Spa and Nurburgring layouts remain intact.

Speaking of the Nurburgring, I don't like what they did to the first corner there either, replacing the sweeping esses with that slow awkward series of bends.

I also agree with feelings about the A1 Ring. While of course inferior to its predecessor, by modern standards it was actually quite a good track. I don't think F1 will return there though, it has the misfortune of being in the wrong continent for that.

Same with Hockenheim now.

People forget that with the old Hockenheim and even Monza has a habit of producing dull races because of large field spreads and the disparity of the cars exaggerated.


I can't think of anywhere a chicane was added that was better than the original corner (or lack thereof).

Caltex Chase @ Bathurst. Hi-speed chicane which works so brilliantly well and an extra overtaking spot.

Original Bus stop chicane @ Spa. It created an extra overtaking spot.

[Sonic]

Knockhill is no longer a thrill of seeing cars kerb-hopping and getting away with much car abuse as possible.


Too true.

[Allyc85]

Lycee chicane/hairpin at Magny-Cours was soo much better before thye changed it. The new design didnt really help racing at all apart from Barrichello mugging Trulli once!