Edmonton a no go in 2011

[domaza]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87885

[Lousada]

:( That means no more airport tracks on the schedule. Also bad news for potential Canadian drivers.

[Easy Drifter]

Already reported in News releases.
PT is real upset. Apparently completely fouls up his sponsorship deal for next year.

[Steve-o]

IMO, the premier open wheel circuit in North America should not be running at airports. I'm sure if I am wrong, someone'll straighten me out. I feel sorry for the fan base in Edmonton.

http://www.fanviewpoint.com/2010/11/izod-series-will-not-return-t0-edmonton.html

[nigelred5]

That sucks, in so many ways, but it shows that a $2-3M expense can clearly be an out-and-out deal breaker to many events.

[MAX_THRUST]

so what other tracks are options?

What was the road course Champ car used, once or was it twice. Twisty up and downer. That would be great.

[MAX_THRUST]

Ah theres nothimg wrong with airport ttracks cleveland was always a great race.

[Easy Drifter]

St Jovite is a possibility.
Both Calgary and Edmonton had city elections recently. I don't know if that affected things in Edmonton.
There is a new Mayor in Calgary and I have no ide how he and the new council view racing. The previous Mayor seemed to be anti racing and the Race City track is in poor shape. It also was more of a club track and not suitable for IC.
Mosport would be great but it won't happen with the race in Toronto.
Mtl. has the GP and NASCAR and I believe only two races a year are allowed and the taxi cabs and IC seem to be on the outs. Three Rivers is too tight for IC.

[Chris R]

I think one of the problems is that cities are discovering that these huge "events" do not bring nearly the economic stimulation to the local economy that many promise. Basically, there is no justification for public investment in these events if they do not directly pay for themselves.... It has little to do with indy car - just simple and sensible governance / economics....

also, in a weak economy, one good weekend may not be enough to save a business that would prosper from the extra income during a "boom" time... i.e. If a restaurant is making money the rest of the year, the extra kick from the event might really add to the bottom line. If the same facility is losing money the rest of the year, the extra profits from the event are probably not enough to make the business profitable and if they are running in "lean" mode, they might not be able to fully capitalize on the crowd....

I think, all in all, the day of the street event as a BIG a part of the series is done. It can be a good model - but probably will not work well in most places.... (again, tis is not a bash on Indycar - just a note of the times in general...)

[Jag_Warrior]

so what other tracks are options?

What was the road course Champ car used, once or was it twice. Twisty up and downer. That would be great.

Mont Tremblant? And if the race sucks, stay in heavenly Saint-Sauveur and you won't care.

[Chamoo]

Like Nigel said in the other thread, Mosport is still available. It would be interesting to see if they could pull off both Toronto Honda Indy and Mosport in subsequent weeks.

It would save the teams a bunch of money one would think.

[MDS]

So here's the official stories from the Edmonton Journal:
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/City+confirms+Edmonton+Indy+done/3770854/story.html

and the official story from the league website
http://www.indycar.com/news/show/55-izod-indycar-series/40365-edmonton-race-peeled-off-2011-schedule/

Sounds like Octane is going to make an effort to keep a date on the schedule. There are some tracks available, and it not too late to put together a successful race on a standing circuit, but too late to put together a street course. I know they're talking about western Canada, but I have to think that with their connections Circuit Gilles Villeneuve is in the mix.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

so what other tracks are options?

What was the road course Champ car used, once or was it twice. Twisty up and downer. That would be great.

Mont-Tremblant. Francois Dumontier was the promoter there for Champ Car back in 2007, so I'd think it's one of the two Quebec venues under consideration mentioned somewhere.

[beachgirl]

The thing I don't understand is, mayors and city councils don't seem to mind one bit forcing bond issues on taxpayers to build billion dollar stadiums for football/basketball/baseball, when they have perfectly good billion dollar stadiums already. But a couple million for a race weekend? Horrors.

[Chamoo]

And cut the attendance in half. How much money and/or vacation time do you think most people have to spend in a short period of time?

I doubt you'd cut the attendance in half. If they headed to Mosport, they'd be piggy backing on the ALMS effort, which already draws about 40,000-50,000 people on race day apparently.

The Honda Indy has had terrible attendance, and might just give the promoters a wake up call that they need to bust their butts to make it work, because Mosport is an alternative.

I'm not saying Mosport is a long term fix to have two race in Canada, but I think it would do for a one year fix, unless of course the Indy bites the dust.

[Lousada]

The thing I don't understand is, mayors and city councils don't seem to mind one bit forcing bond issues on taxpayers to build billion dollar stadiums for football/basketball/baseball, when they have perfectly good billion dollar stadiums already. But a couple million for a race weekend? Horrors.

It's not that hard. Football/Baseball/Basketball are primarily supported by local fans. That means voters. Races are (supposedly) supported by outside fans that are not voters.

[Easy Drifter]

St Jovite/Mt Tremblant is the most likely. The City of Mtl. limits the track there to two events, the GP and the taxi cabs.
Mosport is too close to Toronto and the weekend already has ALMS. The events so close together are already going to hurt both just from a cost point of view. Personally I would pick the ALMS.
A combined event would just put ticket prices out of sight just 2 weeks after Toronto.
I also do not think the TO event is in a great position as the current promoters have cheesed off many fans, especially the local sports car clubs.
Canada's economy is in far better shape than the US but we are still hurting big time.
Although I do not think Toronto will pull any fast ones on the promoters there will be little chance of any financial breaks with the new Mayor.
The City of Edmonton pulled a fast one on the promoter and demanded changes to the track after the contract had been signed. The City shut down the second runway and that meant the track had to be relocated to it. It requires repaving and the City refused to pay any part of it.
For those that do not know it is a municipal airport in the middle of Edmonton.
The main airport is well south of the City and is a Federal operation.
Apparently the race drew well but only from relative locals. Very few real tourists attended according to my info.

[ezhop7]

Edmonton was really a boring race for TV....hopefully Indycar will find a viable replacement race in the 2011 or 2012...to bad Indycars no longer race in Denver, or Pikes Peak. Closest race is 10 hours away in Iowa or 12 hours to Ft. Worth.

[garyshell]

IMO, the premier open wheel circuit in North America should not be running at airports. I'm sure if I am wrong, someone'll straighten me out. I feel sorry for the fan base in Edmonton.

http://www.fanviewpoint.com/2010/11/izod-series-will-not-return-t0-edmonton.html


Ok, I will. Do you remember the races in Cleveland? Case closed.

Gary

[Mark in Oshawa]

For those who think this is good news, give your head a shake. The thing is, if the race wasn't making money in Edmonton, than no one can make money in racing or the IRL was skimming all the profits off in rights fee's. The fans are there and paying decent bucks for tickets, yet the race was losing money? Someone was making a buck, and it wasn't the organizers in the end. Either that, or that or they are idiots.

The fact is the City of Edmonton kicked this event in the teeth is because most city councils in most large cities in this nation are in the middle of an austerity kick, and wont spend 10 cents to promote or facilitate an event like this. The reality is, in Canada, they also are real reluctant to subsidize any professional sport unless the Fed's and Provincial gov't's toss in as well. For racing only one event gets that kind of push, and that is the GP in Montreal. All political BS and spin, but there you have it.

If the IRL is serious about 2 events in Canada, they could either go to Tremblant or just forget it for this upcoming season I think. This decision is a kick right in the teeth, and shows that municipal politicians in Edmonton are sneaky jerks. Had they been up front with this all along, the organizing promoters might have had more time to shore up what they needed. To say, pay up now and move to a new circuit that oh by the way, you have to do on your own is a deliberate kick in the balls.

As for people who don't like airport circuits, well, you have your wish. Funny, I always thought Cleveland was a ton of fun, not often you can see guys 6 six wide into turn one.....

Mind you, if Barnhart was officiating, he would black flag 5 of them....

[Jag_Warrior]

Ok, I will. Do you remember the races in Cleveland? Case closed.

Gary

^^^ :up:

The mid 90's CART races in Cleveland were the best races I ever attended. Any of the others would be a distant second.

[nigelred5]

or St Pete.

or Silverstone.... ;)

Ok, I probably wouldn't be making that one anyway...

[Lee Roy]

^^^ :up:

The mid 90's CART races in Cleveland were the best races I ever attended. Any of the others would be a distant second.

I went in 1999 & 2001. It was really cool to see those cars on a track where they could stretch their legs and also could be seen while doing it. Nightlife in Cleveland was pretty good too.

[spiritone]

Went to all the champcar edmonton races. Great track to view a race. Much better than the vancouver races which i also attended. What the irl is losing is a well attended race with very knowledgeable fans. This is a big loss wether anyone on this forum thinks so. All western canadian races were always well attended through 3 days of racing.

This race is going to hurt any canadian driver trying to get sponsorship and is going to be almost impossible to replace. Another race in eastern canada is a waste of time. This part of the country has always supported its openwheel races better than the east.

I don't see it coming back to vancouver because of the mayor we now have in power. He seems to be more interested in adding bike lanes. Our premier ( who just resigned) spent billions on the olympics and 700 million on a new stadium roof would never give a dime to the champcar race in vancouver when it was here. Getting money for racing is always a hard sell no matter what part of the country you are in.

This is another black mark for the irl and is going to make randys job of reviving the series even more difficult.

[Steve-o]

For those who think airport races are terrible, then I guess you won't be attending any races at Sebring either?

I appreciate everyone's POV on the airport racing. IMO, the casual fan (which I would say I am compared to many of you) is less apt to seek out a race at an airport. I feel that track/venue's appeal cannot be overlooked. Tracks have cache, be it from friends have run club events at certain cicuits, folks have followed drivers who have raced at venues earlier in their career, or following other series. As kids, very few have dreams of driving an airport. Many have dreamt of driving 3 wide into turn 1 at _____ track or the hairpin at _____ roadcourse. As the #1 open wheel series in NA, IZOD should be seeking out tracks, not simply a place to put a race.

I don't question the fact that Edmonton could put on a good show. I am talking about bringing in new fans. I would say new fans would be less than enthusiastic about attending an airport race, than they would say attending at an old venue returning to the schedule, like Milwaukee. I realize that many of you enthusiasts/purists will talk about the quality of the racing. I do not question that. I am talking about getting new eyes on the series, to get the series better than a .3 television ratings.

As far losing a date goes, it's never a good thing. I also agree with many of you, stuffing a date back East is a bad idea. There has to be a western Canadian venue that can step up here. That last sentence should read more as a question. Where can this series go to grow itself in the western Canadian area, put on a good show, and draw eyes from the casual fan.

As we say in the car business; We're getting what we're getting, 'cause we're doing what we're doing. We need to change what we're doing in order to change the reuslts of what we're getting.

[Easy Drifter]

A problem with western Canada is that there are really only 3 cities large enough to support a race.
We know what has happened at Edmonton.
Calgary has had a Mayor and Council not interested and Race City at Calgary is in sad shape with the City trying to get the land for other purposes. It was not suitable anyway. They have a new Mayor but I have no idea how he and the present Council feel. Any track would have to be set up from scratch and I do not think there is time for 2011.
Vancouver is the most populous area but where the old cicuit was is now built up. They also are still sorting things out from the Olympics and the Provincial Govt. is in a state of flux with the Premier just resigning. He was and his party are unpopular and likely to lose the next election.
A new venue would have to be found there as well.
Gimli north of Winnipeg is too small and access poor. I doubt Winnipeg would support a race.
Some of our western Cdn. members might have some more insight.

[Enjun Pullr]

The only airport circuit I visited as a spectator was at Cleveland, for the inaugural race there. I have been to most of the permanent road courses in North America.

To a casual fan, there is no better advantage than to be able to see the entire circuit from the grandstands. I could guess that the flat runway terrain makes for easier and better TV broadcasting as well...but watching the field run complete laps at Cleveland made for great viewing.

It's not easy to find great vantage points on most road courses, particularly on your first visit. Casual fans without leader boards, headsets or big screens often have difficulty in keeping up with events as they unfold.

Watching the 2010 Edmonton race on TV was my first taste, and the track looked great to me. The added advantage of staging a race close to an urban center helps to attract casual fans, who might otherwise pass on an adventure to the boonies.

What blew up at Edmonton has gotten a lot of coverage, but there are a few important points being overlooked. The runway closure was mandated in 2009, and there was ample advance notice that it would take effect after the 2010 race. If Octane didn't know the track layout would require modifications, they are fools. It was also quite clear that the Council was not going to surpass a hard budget cap they had put into place to limit continuing losses on the event.

Perhaps Octane expected the 2010 race to have been a financial success, and expected to sell sponsorship for next year based on the results. Perhaps they expected to sign the deal, and then prod Edmonton into coming up with the additional money required to build them a new circuit.

Regardless, Octane stated that they were not stepping up to promote the race for the privilage of losing money. They claimed to be experts looking to expand into a new market. Without knowing they had a circuit to run the race on?????

If anyone can be questioned for a lack of due dilligence, it is IndyCar. They made a deal with a promoter who could not deliver an event: now IndyCar, their sponsors and teams are stuck with the consequences. Does TEAM money get reduced? Sponsor allocations made for a 17 race schedule? Does IndyCar lose Versus money?

Octane was one of the new promoters selected who promised to give IndyCar the effort they were looking for, as opposed to the dissatisfaction expressed with ISC. Now the Baltimore promoter has had a taste of reality. IndyCar is also counting on the new group at Milwaukee to put together their first event, and nobody has stepped up to run a race at Las Vegas.

Watkins Glen, Road America, Edmonton, Cleveland, Chicagoland, Homestead-Miami...to me, those are all good ground. You have to fight for good ground, or you lose it. There is no satisfactory excuse to be found by blaming others for not doing the promotional work required to sell these races.

So the Series suffers the consequences of losing the best venues in North America, and in not being able to scratch together a full schedule. And at the same time, the commercial division boasts about the $66+ Million dollar increase in promotional investment by corporate sponsors.

If you can't promote your own races to demonstrate the abitily to sell tickets, it's puzzling to see why anyone else would sign on for the job. If you can't run races for a lack of track improvements, or for a lack of increased sanctioning fees, it sure sounds like you don't have much in the way of corporate investment.

So what is the $66+ million figure supposed to represent, and why isn't some of that money being used to stage races for a racing series that the money has been pledged to promote?

Octane said they needed the advance sales from the holiday season to profit from the 2011 race at Edmonton. They will not have that opportunity now, even if another venue becomes available. In Baltimore, construction of the circuit could be halted in two months for lack of a $750K payment by the promoters. In Vegas, the crickets continue to chirp.

If somebody is holding real money, they had better start throwing down.

[call_me_andrew]

Stop saying, "the #1 open wheel series in NA." We might as well be calling it the world's tallest midget.

[Enjun Pullr]

Steve-O, just for you bro...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND8VCprPuAo

[Mark]

also, in a weak economy, one good weekend may not be enough to save a business that would prosper from the extra income during a "boom" time... i.e. If a restaurant is making money the rest of the year, the extra kick from the event might really add to the bottom line. If the same facility is losing money the rest of the year, the extra profits from the event are probably not enough to make the business profitable and if they are running in "lean" mode, they might not be able to fully capitalize on the crowd....


The likes of restaurants and hotels have a limited capacity, you can only have so many people sat at your tables and only so many people staying in your rooms, sure hotels can double their prices, but over the course of a year that's not that significant.

[Jag_Warrior]

In Baltimore, construction of the circuit could be halted in two months for lack of a $750K payment by the promoters.

Wait... what?!

I was mainly going to see the ALMS race. But what's going on with the Baltimore race date???

[Enjun Pullr]

Calm down, nobody is screaming "fire". Things just haven't started out as planned. I'll find a link and paste it here, give me a minute.

Here you go:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2010-11-03/sports/bs-md-bpw-grand-prix-pit-20101103_1_baltimore-racing-development-parking-lots-grand-prix

[Enjun Pullr]

Here's the prequel to that piece:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/auto-racing/baltimore-grand-prix/bs-md-stadium-grand-prix-20101026,0,4383628.story

So the condensed summary is that $800K was due, and not paid. Re-negotiated to $150K on the table, $750K more by the end of the year.

Maryland fronted the money in the meantime, so the pit lane construction can proceed. So far, so good.

[Enjun Pullr]

You have to read both articles, there is not a problem yet. But I agree that the rocks look shiny, or I wouldn't have made the original comment.

The State and Federal construction money is allocated, and the State even temporarily covered the shortfall.

But the race organizers have to make good on the rest of the bond by Jan 1, or the rocks get slippery. And they haven't found the sponsorship they have been hunting for so far. If they find it, nobody skips a beat.

If they don't, we will hear some drums beating.

[Steve-o]

Steve-O, just for you bro...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND8VCprPuAo

Oh, yeah, those guys put on a show here in Loudon as well. Too bad we have to reach back into 1993...but I would say Fittipaldi and Mansell would put on a great show at the local McDonalds parking lot. I think that speaks to the quality of the product that you often speak of. With Mansell, the 3 Penske cars, Mario, and Rahal back in the day, you could expect to draw fans back inthe day...now, the star power is lacking. I realize I am grasping at straws, stating the tracks will have some 'star power' of thier own, but that to me shows how this series has fallen.

I appreciate the post, EP

[Lousada]

So far, so good.

You are ignoring the most important part of the article:

The company has indicated since August that it is close to announcing a title sponsor, but negotiations with several companies continue.


If they don't have a title sponsor before the end of the year, they won't be able to make the payments. Unless of course Randy jumps in to avoid the humiliation of two cancelled events within months...

[Lousada]

What blew up at Edmonton has gotten a lot of coverage, but there are a few important points being overlooked. The runway closure was mandated in 2009, and there was ample advance notice that it would take effect after the 2010 race. If Octane didn't know the track layout would require modifications, they are fools. It was also quite clear that the Council was not going to surpass a hard budget cap they had put into place to limit continuing losses on the event.

Perhaps Octane expected the 2010 race to have been a financial success, and expected to sell sponsorship for next year based on the results. Perhaps they expected to sign the deal, and then prod Edmonton into coming up with the additional money required to build them a new circuit.

Regardless, Octane stated that they were not stepping up to promote the race for the privilage of losing money. They claimed to be experts looking to expand into a new market. Without knowing they had a circuit to run the race on?????


You have to wonder why neither Octane or the Council made a stink about it. To me it looks like both were quite pleased they got out of it without much trouble. Both the city council and Octane are relieved of a money burning race, and now Octane has a free date for a race in Quebec that they are reportedly persuing.

[Easy Drifter]

And/or Dr. Panoz.
Meanwhile it is snowing here.

[Enjun Pullr]

Sorry Lou, looks like you didn't read the point in post #37 about the lack of an event sponsor for Baltimore. You reached a similar conclusion, though.

As for what is going on in Edmonton, I have no guess. I only know that most people are jumping to the conclusion that the City is to blame, Octane is the victim, and IndyCar is the innocent bystander. Maybe the facts will bear that out, maybe not.

At least one party was lacking of due dilligence.

[Easy Drifter]

From what I can gather Octane knew there would have to be changes and were prepared for what they thought or understood they would have to do.
What they were presented with was a complete revamping of a lot of the track, far more than what they had been led to believe.
I also understand they were quite prepared to cover some of the costs of the basically new circuit but not the whole thing.
They are not a naive group. They are the same group that now run the Cdn. GP and were able to get concessions from Bernie that made it financially feasible.
I do not know if the screw up in Edmonton was from the beauacrats or the city council or both. The city just had an election and the new council may not be as racing inclined. Pretty well all cities are pulling in their horns on discretionary funding up here.
I keep hoping our Alberta members will get in on this as they will have a better handle on the local politics than some guy from Ontario.

[Jag_Warrior]

You have to read both articles, there is not a problem yet. But I agree that the rocks look shiny, or I wouldn't have made the original comment.

The State and Federal construction money is allocated, and the State even temporarily covered the shortfall.

But the race organizers have to make good on the rest of the bond by Jan 1, or the rocks get slippery. And they haven't found the sponsorship they have been hunting for so far. If they find it, nobody skips a beat.

If they don't, we will hear some drums beating.

Thanks for the update. From the B-Sun article, it sounds like if I make hotel reservations, I probably won't use my credit card to guarantee the room. If I'm not there by 6PM, go ahead and sell it to somebody else. No race... no me.

Sounds pretty iffy at this point. Kind of a bummer since this would have been my girl's first auto racing weekend.


If the rest of the payments are not made, Frenz said, "we have a variety of remedies, up to and including stopping construction."

The racing group continues to hunt for a title sponsor that would pay for major advertising for the race. The company has indicated since August that it is close to announcing a title sponsor, but negotiations with several companies continue.

[Enjun Pullr]

Cheers Jag,

Those are the facts straight from Baltimore, and my fair evaluation of them. We'll see what happens.

In the case of Edmonton, the facts are now of little consequence. A new promoter has failed to organize a scheduled event. People can blame who they choose, but it is IndyCar who has lost the property.

According to Octane's statement, they now lack sufficient lead time to promote an alternate event even if a site is presented. I have submitted a plan for a replacement venue, but my voice isn't any louder than the rest.

[Lousada]

Sorry Lou, looks like you didn't read the point in post #37 about the lack of an event sponsor for Baltimore. You reached a similar conclusion, though.

Yes sorry, making an argument in multiple subsequent posts is confusing :crazy: I agree with you that there is nothing to panic about before 1 jan. If Brazil learned us anything last year, it's that a streetrace can be put up in less then 3 months.

[ICWS]

If Indycar can't find a replacement venue and sticks with 16 races (I'm assuming Las Vegas will be added), does anyone here think they'll alter the schedule a bit to reduce the gap in between events. What I mean by this is that they could keep the first half (St. Pete to Toronto) on the same dates but then move Mid-Ohio back two weeks, New Hampshire and Sonoma back one week each. Then they could finish the season with Baltimore, Japan, Kentucky and Las Vegas on their scheduled dates.

This is what the schedule would look like if they did this:

3/27 – St. Petersburg, Florida
4/10 – Birmingham, Alabama (I wish they would move this race to April 3rd)
4/17 – Long Beach, California
5/1 – Sao Paulo, Brazil
5/29 – Indianapolis, Indiana
6/11 – Fort Worth, Texas
6/19 – Milwaukee, Wisconsin
6/25 – Newton, Iowa
7/10 – Toronto, Canada
7/24 – Lexington, Ohio (Moved from August 7th)
8/7 – Loudon, New Hampshire (Moved from August 14th)
8/21 – Sonoma, California (Moved from August 28th)
9/4 – Baltimore, Maryland
9/18 – Motegi, Japan
10/2 – Sparta, Kentucky
10/16 – Las Vegas, Nevada

This proposal seems to help a little with fixing the concern of a big gap in the schedule (between July 10th to August 7th) if they indeed are stuck with 16 races next season. I know they seem to have race dates set in stone, but I think it would be worth a try to see if the race promoters at Mid-Ohio, New Hampshire, and Sonoma would be willing to push their scheduled dates a week or two weeks forward to compensate for this gap.

Any thoughts?

(P.S., I kinda like the scenario of the series having these exact 16 races next year, as the schedule would be evenly divided between road/street courses and oval tracks with 8 races apiece).

[Enjun Pullr]

Bernard said on Trackside Tuesday night that he would not be shifting dates of venues...the existing races are locked in. Edmonton will be salvaged or, as a last resort, replaced with another venue. The ones mentioned have only been speculation, although it won't be Cleveland.

[ICWS]

Bernard said on Trackside Tuesday night that he would not be shifting dates of venues...the existing races are locked in. Edmonton will be salvaged or, as a last resort, replaced with another venue. The ones mentioned have only been speculation, although it won't be Cleveland.

Thank you for that clarification.

Well then, here's another question I have: Is the series absolutely certain that they will either revive the Edmonton race or go with another Canadian venue, or could they replace the Edmonton/Canadian race with a venue in the U.S.? I kinda thought that Portland International Raceway could serve as a decent replacement.

I do think that Mont-Tremblant would be the best and most realistic Canadian replacement for Edmonton if they indeed can't revive the race. Montreal would be better but they are pretty sure they don't want to open up a third weekend at the track and I don't think they like the idea of having a race weekend featuring both the NASCAR Nationwide Series and the IndyCar Series at the same track. And I also agree with some of the previous posts that Mosport is an impossibility.

I would be curious to see how a Quebec City or Calgary street race would be put together, though.

[Enjun Pullr]

There isn't anything certain, although the primary emphasis has been to negotiate a plan to save the Edmonton race.

[Easy Drifter]

Although I am Cdn. I am a long way from Edmonton. Our Alberta members have been quiet.
I believe there has been an election since or just before the original announcement. My info suggests the current Council is possibly more pro racing. I almost got the feeling that the beauocrats were against it more than the council, either old or new.
Reports indicate the current Council are trying to salvage the race.
I have no idea where a race could be run in Calgary but forget Race City. It is in rough shape and never more than a club track.
The old Quebec City street circuit was very tight for Atlantic cars in the late 70's so forget that.
Now a race in the old City would be some scary! I am not sure two cars could even fit beside one another in some of those streets!!!!!
But the food. Everyone would leave 10 lbs heavier!
Toronto may have the most different ethnic restaurants in the world but there are so many incredible little eateries in old Quebec City. If it isn't good it doesn't last!

[Enjun Pullr]

This reads as pretty current about the Edmonton situation:

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Motorsports/2010/11/15/pf-16160651.html

[Mark in Oshawa]

There isn't anything certain, although the primary emphasis has been to negotiate a plan to save the Edmonton race.

The whole point of a second Canadian venue is to allow Canadian drivers to have 2 races to market to possible sponsors. The "PT NEEDS A RIDE PLAN" if you will.

This race I predict will stay dead unless the City of Edmonton decides to back off and find a way to help Octane through this...and that is a snowballs chance in hell of happening.

[NaBUru38]

ICWS, Mid-Ohio can't move to July because the ALMS has races that month.

[Enjun Pullr]

Firestone tire testing at Vegas makes the propostition of a race there sound likely:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20101116/IRL/101119895

[ICWS]

ICWS, Mid-Ohio can't move to July because the ALMS has races that month.

Good Point: ALMS' July races are July 9th (Lime Rock) and July 24th (Mosport). I know I proposed that Mid-Ohio could be moved forward two weeks to July 24th to replace Edmonton, but I forgot that they shared that race weekend with ALMS.

Actually, it sounds like IndyCar may get Edmonton back on schedule for 2011; with the consequence of sharing the 2012 Edmonton weekend with NASCAR's Nationwide Series in order to pay off that $2-3 million paving bill. This is according to the following article: http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Motorsports/2010/11/15/16160651.html

[Mark in Oshawa]

Actually, it sounds like IndyCar may get Edmonton back on schedule for 2011; with the consequence of sharing the 2012 Edmonton weekend with NASCAR's Nationwide Series in order to pay off that $2-3 million paving bill. This is according to the following article: http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Motorsports/2010/11/15/16160651.html

Me thinks this deal relies on the good will of the people down in Daytona Beach wanting to add a date to a crowded Nationwide schedule that just happens to be a lot further away logistically for their Charlotte based teams.

I don't forsee this happening easily...and it is yet another road course, something that that the traditional NASCAR purists may not go for.

I wont say it wont happen, but you are putting a lot on a very conservative and careful organization to jump out of their comfort zone....

[ICWS]

Me thinks this deal relies on the good will of the people down in Daytona Beach wanting to add a date to a crowded Nationwide schedule that just happens to be a lot further away logistically for their Charlotte based teams.

I don't forsee this happening easily...and it is yet another road course, something that that the traditional NASCAR purists may not go for.

I wont say it wont happen, but you are putting a lot on a very conservative and careful organization to jump out of their comfort zone....

True, you do have a point there. But it really depends on how much they (the people down in Daytona Beach) really care about the Nationwide Series. This series has shown to be more open to adding events in places that you would think NASCAR wouldn't go (Montreal, Mexico City, Road America, etc.). It's the Cup Series they're are more concerned about where they go. So having a race at a place like Edmonton, which would have to take the place of the second Nashville race on the calendar, wouldn't be too far-fetched as long as they're willing to admit that they are not the main show in respect to another racing series. That is what the major hurdle is in regards to getting a NASCAR-IndyCar doubleheader at Edmonton.

Personally, NASCAR should be thankful that the Nationwide Series would be in consideration to be part of a race weekend at a track like Edmonton. The series is a joke to me now, with Cup guys like Kyle Busch, Edwards, Harvick, Bowyer, Keselowski, etc. using the series' races as additional practice the day before the Cup races. Having a race at Edmonton, even if it meant knocking off a track like Nashville and playing second-fiddle to IndyCar, will put add some more uniqueness to the series, which is something it is seriously lacking.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Does anyone have an idea what the new track configuration would look like?

[Mark in Oshawa]

True, you do have a point there. But it really depends on how much they (the people down in Daytona Beach) really care about the Nationwide Series. This series has shown to be more open to adding events in places that you would think NASCAR wouldn't go (Montreal, Mexico City, Road America, etc.). It's the Cup Series they're are more concerned about where they go. So having a race at a place like Edmonton, which would have to take the place of the second Nashville race on the calendar, wouldn't be too far-fetched as long as they're willing to admit that they are not the main show in respect to another racing series. That is what the major hurdle is in regards to getting a NASCAR-IndyCar doubleheader at Edmonton.

Personally, NASCAR should be thankful that the Nationwide Series would be in consideration to be part of a race weekend at a track like Edmonton. The series is a joke to me now, with Cup guys like Kyle Busch, Edwards, Harvick, Bowyer, Keselowski, etc. using the series' races as additional practice the day before the Cup races. Having a race at Edmonton, even if it meant knocking off a track like Nashville and playing second-fiddle to IndyCar, will put add some more uniqueness to the series, which is something it is seriously lacking.

I think the appetite for adding road courses for NASCAR is limited. That said, I didn't think I would see them have 3 on the sched in Nationwide but Edmonton is 4. The other thing is, and you really have to understand the logisitics of it is the distance. If they do Edmonton, their cars may not be coming back to the shop from the previous weekend or they are sending separate cars. For smaller operations, Edmonton is a long way to go, a strain on the limited resources and a long way to go. No knock on Edmonton, but with NASCAR, they run every week....and Charlotte to Edmonton is a 3 to 4 day trek, and the border and getting all the equipment through is another hassle that teams will have to learn to get used to.

It all sounds silly to us Canadians, and those of us who drove for a living but the two biggest nails in the coffin for the trip to Mexico was the time involved getting there and the complaints about the border. With Montreal, the distance isn't a big deal, but I know they complain about customs...

[Hoop-98]

Supposedly money has been "found". Re-Vote Friday..

[MDS]

Yeah, contractual obligations are a pain. If the event really were canceled Edmonton would still be on the hook for the full sanctioning fee this year.

Here's an Edmonton Sun story about the vote on Friday
http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmonton/2010/11/22/16266681.html

One wonders if the money they "found" wasn't tagged for another event, like maybe Expo 2017.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmonton/2010/11/22/16266681.html

If the bidding process was to cost $22 million and the city would have had to cover 10 percent of it then you would have most of the $2.5 million would need to cover the event.