SOMALI PIRATES...The sequel

[Hondo]

Remember back in April 2009 when Somali pirates took the American flagged Maersk Alabama? They held the crew on board ship and put the captain and some of the pirates in a lifeboat. The US Navy SEALs got there and killed some pirates, captured a few, rescued the captain and crew, and took the ship back.

Last Wednesday, Somali pirates made an attempt to grab the very same ship again. They learned that if you treat Alabama folks badly on the first visit you'll find they have more than their d**ks in their hands when you visit again. They were repelled by an armed security team on board the Maersk Alabama.

Maersk and some other American flag carriers, disregarding international opinion, are now employing armed security teams when transiting dangerous waters. Good job Maersk!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/piracy/6598482/Somali-pirates-attack-US-flagged-Maersk-Alabama-a-second-time.html

[fandango]

I'm in no way an expert on this question, or even that well informed, so please season to taste what I say, but I don't understand how people carrying guns is cause for celebration. I'm sure there's a lot more to this story than meets the eye, and the only goodies are the ordinary workers on both sides who just want to make a living.

Somalia doesn't seen to function properly as a country, and has been taken over by "pirates". But these ships that they're attacking, what are they doing there? Just sailing through peacefully? I find that hard to believe... Anybody know more about this?

[Garry Walker]

I'm in no way an expert on this question, or even that well informed, so please season to taste what I say, but I don't understand how people carrying guns is cause for celebration. It is when those people have enough balls to defend themselves. Not the perfect solution, but better than to let yourself be killed by worthless scum.



Somalia doesn't seen to function properly as a country, and has been taken over by "pirates". But these ships that they're attacking, what are they doing there? Just sailing through peacefully? I find that hard to believe... Anybody know more about this?

:rotflmao:
It is a container ship, carrying goods from place A to place B.
What is your explanation or theory, do amuse me and tell.

[Eki]

It is when those people have enough balls to defend themselves. Not the perfect solution, but better than to let yourself be killed by worthless scum.


So why don't you celebrate the Somali pirates too? They used to be fishermen who took up piracy after illegal over-fishing and chemical dumping in the Somali waters by first world companies and ships had killed the fish there. To stay alive and defend themselves and their families, they had "enough balls" to pick up guns and take their livelihood from ships who brave near enough Somali waters.

It's not a perfect solution, but what else do you do if you and your family are hungry and there's no working social welfare?

[Hondo]

The praise from me stems from the company's willingness to defend and protect it's property, employees, and client's cargo. The overwhelming majority of pirate attacks are now occurring far outside of Somali's territorial waters. They have become more violent. The arguments of protecting their fishing rights or the prevention of illegal dumping does not fly when attacks on shipping and private yachts occur outside of territorial waters. I seriously doubt the British couple that were taken, along with their yacht and held for ransom were engaged in commercial fishing or the dumping of chemical waste. Vessels engaged in criminal activity within territorial waters are escorted to port, fined, and released. There may be some jail time involved for the master or crew. They are not held for ransom. So let's say these ransoms are actually violation "fines". What portion of these "fines" are turned over to the UN recognized government of Somali? What manner of violation did the British couple in their sailboat do that merits a $7 million dollar fine? I might point out that the security people are also working people hired to do the job of protecting the ship and crew. They too, just want to make a living.

Somali is what it is and will remain that way until enough Somali people decide to risk everything, including their lives, to make it something better.

Piracy became popular because it was a low risk, high profit enterprise. As more shippers decide to add security to their vessels and soft, unprotected targets become a rarity, piracy will taper off to small, coastal activities.

[fandango]

It is a container ship, carrying goods from place A to place B.
What is your explanation or theory, do amuse me and tell.

Why would I bother trying to discuss anything with you? You don't express any basic respect for people in this forum, so you'll just have to continue amusing yourself, my friend.

[fandango]

The praise from me stems from the company's willingness to defend and protect it's property, employees, and client's cargo. The overwhelming majority of pirate attacks are now occurring far outside of Somali's territorial waters. They have become more violent. The arguments of protecting their fishing rights or the prevention of illegal dumping does not fly when attacks on shipping and private yachts occur outside of territorial waters. I seriously doubt the British couple that were taken, along with their yacht and held for ransom were engaged in commercial fishing or the dumping of chemical waste. Vessels engaged in criminal activity within territorial waters are escorted to port, fined, and released. There may be some jail time involved for the master or crew. They are not held for ransom. So let's say these ransoms are actually violation "fines". What portion of these "fines" are turned over to the UN recognized government of Somali? What manner of violation did the British couple in their sailboat do that merits a $7 million dollar fine? I might point out that the security people are also working people hired to do the job of protecting the ship and crew. They too, just want to make a living.

Somali is what it is and will remain that way until enough Somali people decide to risk everything, including their lives, to make it something better.

Piracy became popular because it was a low risk, high profit enterprise. As more shippers decide to add security to their vessels and soft, unprotected targets become a rarity, piracy will taper off to small, coastal activities.

All fair points. I hope you're right. As I said earlier, I don't know much about the situation, but I'm just suspicious of easy labels like pirate.

[Eki]

The praise from me stems from the company's willingness to defend and protect it's property, employees, and client's cargo. The overwhelming majority of pirate attacks are now occurring far outside of Somali's territorial waters. They have become more violent.
Of course, because also the opposition has become more violent. The pirates now have to use more violence to do their job.


The arguments of protecting their fishing rights or the prevention of illegal dumping does not fly when attacks on shipping and private yachts occur outside of territorial waters. I seriously doubt the British couple that were taken, along with their yacht and held for ransom were engaged in commercial fishing or the dumping of chemical waste.
I didn't say they were protecting their fishing rights or waters, I said they have had to take up a new occupation, because there's not enough fish to feed them anymore.


Vessels engaged in criminal activity within territorial waters are escorted to port, fined, and released. There may be some jail time involved for the master or crew. They are not held for ransom. So let's say these ransoms are actually violation "fines". What portion of these "fines" are turned over to the UN recognized government of Somali? What manner of violation did the British couple in their sailboat do that merits a $7 million dollar fine? I might point out that the security people are also working people hired to do the job of protecting the ship and crew. They too, just want to make a living.
Somalia doesn't have a navy or a cost guard, they don't even have a working government. That's why it was easy to dump waste there or over-fish their waters, because there wasn't anyone to stop it.



Somali is what it is and will remain that way until enough Somali people decide to risk everything, including their lives, to make it something better.

Some Finnish reporter interviewed Somali kids and asked what they want to become when they grow up. The kids wanted to become pirates. They have seen that pirates have it better than others, even if they have to risk their lives.

When radical Islamists temporarily took power, they curbed the piracy for awhile. Then Ethiopian troops backed by the US banished the Islamists and the pirates made a come back. When you Americans think about your foreign policies, you'd better decide if you want the Islamists or the pirates and drug dealers.You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Hondo]

Pirates have to use more violence to do their job? Job? Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound, even by your normal standards? That's like saying bank robbers had to start shooting a few people because the tellers wouldn't hand over the money any more. " We had to shoot them or we'd lose our bank robber job." By your convoluted logic, nobody should resist a criminal act because it may force the criminal to start using violence to remain in his chosen occupation.

Since they are operating far outside their territorial waters, perhaps they should use their pirate fleets for fishing. Plenty of fish out there.

I would think if you can put together a fleet to board and take over vessels on the high seas, that same fleet could be used to stop illegal fishing and dumping in their territorial waters with the fines turned over to the government. But, that's not what it's about. This is not being done to create a new and improved greater Somali.

The Islamists were never run out completely and still run parts of the country including pirate areas. They talk a lot of trash but don't have the muscle to go against the pirates. Some fine Islamic holy folks did offer to intercede on behalf of the British couple and said they could get them released for the $700,000 dollars which was all the money the family could raise. After the family paid the money, it disappeared. Nobody knows anything about it.

American foreign policy has nothing to do with the condition of Somali. Somali itself is another bastird offspring of British map design. The Somalian people and the local big time players have everything to do with the condition of Somali. The Ethiopian troops and the troops that are in there now trying to act as peacekeepers are the results of ANC action, not the USA or the UN. The UN tried to help them out before and won't go back anytime soon.

[Bob Riebe]

All fair points. I hope you're right. As I said earlier, I don't know much about the situation, but I'm just suspicious of easy labels like pirate.
They you must never listen to or read the news; this has been a hot topic for a long time.

[markabilly]

Of


When you Americans think about your foreign policies, you'd better decide if you want the Islamists or the pirates and drug dealers.You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I say NONE to that little riddle.....
Nuke them all and that will stop all that nonsense real quick.
Of course, best not to eat the cake from there for a couple thousand years, or at least till all the radioactivity goes away

[Eki]

Since they are operating far outside their territorial waters, perhaps they should use their pirate fleets for fishing. Plenty of fish out there.

And how do you know the amount of fish there?

[Eki]

American foreign policy has nothing to do with the condition of Somali. Somali itself is another bastird offspring of British map design. The Somalian people and the local big time players have everything to do with the condition of Somali. The Ethiopian troops and the troops that are in there now trying to act as peacekeepers are the results of ANC action, not the USA or the UN. The UN tried to help them out before and won't go back anytime soon.
That's what you think. The US is always meddling with affairs of other countries, if not openly then behind the scenes:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-01-07-ethiopia_x.htm


U.S. support key to Ethiopia's invasion
Updated 1/8/2007 11:07 AM ET E-mail | Save | Print | Reprints &

By Barbara Slavin, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — The United States has quietly poured weapons and military advisers into Ethiopia, whose recent invasion of Somalia opened a new front in the Bush administration's war on terrorism.

A Christian-led nation in sub-Saharan Africa, surrounded almost entirely by Muslim states, Ethiopia has received nearly $20 million in U.S. military aid since late 2002. That's more than any country in the region except Djibouti.

Last month, thousands of Ethiopian troops invaded neighboring Somalia and helped overturn a fundamentalist Islamic government that the Bush administration said was supported by al-Qaeda.

The U.S. and Ethiopian militaries have "a close working relationship," Pentagon spokesman Lt. Cmdr. Joe Carpenter said. The ties include intelligence sharing, arms aid and training that gives the Ethiopians "the capacity to defend their borders and intercept terrorists and weapons of mass destruction," he said.

[fandango]

They you must never listen to or read the news; this has been a hot topic for a long time.

There's no need to be like that, my friend. I read and listen to the news, but I have found in my experience that anytime the news covers something that I have independent knowledge of it's so full of inaccuracies that it has made me distrust all the information the news contains.

I have no direct knowledge of Somalia, so I consider whatever I read or hear about on the news to be at best generalised information. Being informed by the news does not make anyone informed.

So I'm curious to hear what people have to say, in the interests of an informed, agreeable discussion. And hot topics in your part of the world might just not get a mention over here, obviously.

[fandango]

That's what you think. The US is always meddling with affairs of other countries, if not openly then behind the scenes:


I don't mean to be rude, Eki, but you've just summarised the content of 99% of your posts in one sentence. Not every thread has to be about bashing the US.

[Hondo]

That's what you think. The US is always meddling with affairs of other countries, if not openly then behind the scenes:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-01-07-ethiopia_x.htm

The USA gives weapons and training to a lot of countries, as do other nations. So what? Ethiopia is going to act in it's own best interests as the government of a nation.

Somali's problems are the result of different tribes, in the same country, that refuse to get along with one another. It's a classic example of advanced multiculturalism and it's the direction Iraq is going, again.

[Hondo]

And how do you know the amount of fish there?


I made a lucky guess.

[555-04Q2]

Shoot the bloody pirates. After they have shot enough of them they will hopefully learn to find other "jobs" to do, like farming or fishing.

[Hondo]

Not to worry. The EU is now training Somalian government soldiers so everything will be ok soon. Right.

[Eki]

learn to find other "jobs" to do, like farming or fishing.
Easier said than done, I'd presume, considering where they live in. Maybe South Africa could give them some farm land?

[Hondo]

Easier said than done, I'd presume, considering where they live in. Maybe South Africa could give them some farm land?

Maybe they should stop fighting amongst themselves and develop the resources they have on land they already control.

This is the country they created for themselves, let them restore it themselves. Maybe they could get a Haitian delegation to come give them some tips on how to run a successful independent nation.

[airshifter]

I don't mean to be rude, Eki, but you've just summarised the content of 99% of your posts in one sentence. Not every thread has to be about bashing the US.


It's a requirement for Eki to bash the US any chance he gets. After all, we are the source of all the worlds problems. :D


And actually had Eki looked more into the issue of the territorial waters being abused in Somalia, he might have found the the US contracted people that were both trying to control the piracy issue and helping enforce the fishing rights within Somalian waters.




The raft that the first round of pirates were shot is will be on display at a local museum.

[Roamy]

No the truth about EKI is he works for Nokia - he is soooooo pissed about the iphone he can't handle it

[555-04Q2]

Easier said than done, I'd presume, considering where they live in. Maybe South Africa could give them some farm land?

Not a fu@k! We have enough pirates already...

[Daniel]

No the truth about EKI is he works for Nokia - he is soooooo pissed about the iphone he can't handle it

He's pissed at some maniac getting suicidal people in China to make a phone? Why?

[driveace]

I agree with 555 from Durban.Shoot the pirates,they will soon get the message.And realize that they are not the only ones who are armed!

[Duchess]

There is an alarming amount of whiteness going on up in this thread. Are you people like, serious?

[555-04Q2]

There is an alarming amount of whiteness going on up in this thread. Are you people like, serious?

WTF are you on about :confused:

[Bob Riebe]

WTF are you on about :confused:
He is trolling.