Travis Pastrana [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

koko0703

12th March 2007, 04:37

L5->R5/CR

12th March 2007, 04:53

So the WRC debut for Travis Pastrana is over, and he finished repectable 5th in PWRC although he's a massive 8 mins behind PWRC winner Mark Higgins and the final standing is more of the result of a small entry list than his performance. Still considering this is his first time in Group N car and with using pace note, I must say this result shows a great effort by Travis.

Now question is how far he can go from here. He is scheduled to contest Argentina and GB this year and will enter full PWRC for 2008 & 2009. So by the end of 2009, will he be ready to move on to the top level??? It would be great for US rallying scene to have an American driver in the top level, and WRC will welcome more attention from USA!! ....and 2009 is coincide with the end of Petter's contract with Subaru, too ;)

So what do you guys think??? I know it's way too early to draw any conclusion, but Pastrana in SWRT in 2010???

I think it will be important to see how he improves for Argentina. In Mexico he ran where most of us in the US expected him too. But he kept his nose clean and finished (there are some more experienced and faster drivers that can't say the same). Still, 1.25second/km is a lot. Hopefully after the debrief they can identify some places where he is loosing time and cut that margin by Argentina, and again in GB, steady progress and getting experience is what this season is supposed to be all about.

All in all I think he did what everybody expected. Put in a respectable time, but didn't set the world on fire. He'll probably finish lower in the order in Argentina but hopefully with less of a gap per KM.

It will be interesting to see how the Argentinian fans respond to Travis as well. The Mexican fans seemed to not be able to get enough of him.

Tomi

12th March 2007, 05:23

I think he did as expected, and also think he needs a lot of serious rallying, driving in us series he dont find it, the level there simply is too low, also driving a few rallies on world level now and then does not help much I belive.
But now he knows what the pace is.

A.F.F.

12th March 2007, 07:37

Travis did good in Mexico. PWRC is tougher this year than in many years before. If he can drive to the points in rallies it will be very good :up:

SubaruNorway

12th March 2007, 12:34

Travis doing a no hander landing on sunday, when can we expect the first double backflip :rotflmao:

http://rally.subaru.com/event_2007_mexico_gallery.html

WRXedUSA

12th March 2007, 13:29

Not even a mention an any of the news/sports channels last night.

Rally is still "underground" and will remain so for the remainder of Travis' 3yr stint in the top level of the sport.

bt52b

12th March 2007, 14:13

Probably needs to do pacenote rallies (in Europe?) for the rest of the year if he is serious about the PWRC campaign in 2008.

FrankenSchwinn

12th March 2007, 14:59

Probably needs to do pacenote rallies (in Europe?) for the rest of the year if he is serious about the PWRC campaign in 2008.

send him to finland to see how real men have fun with their pants on.... nah, i mean, seriously, he should really have tried to have a go at the finnish rally this year.

Doug Woods

12th March 2007, 15:12

So the WRC debut for Travis Pastrana is over, and he finished repectable 5th in PWRC although he's a massive 8 mins behind PWRC winner Mark Higgins and the final standing is more of the result of a small entry list than his performance. Still considering this is his first time in Group N car and with using pace note, I must say this result shows a great effort by Travis.

Now question is how far he can go from here. He is scheduled to contest Argentina and GB this year and will enter full PWRC for 2008 & 2009. So by the end of 2009, will he be ready to move on to the top level??? It would be great for US rallying scene to have an American driver in the top level, and WRC will welcome more attention from USA!! ....and 2009 is coincide with the end of Petter's contract with Subaru, too ;)

So what do you guys think??? I know it's way too early to draw any conclusion, but Pastrana in SWRT in 2010???

Very difficult to predict what he will achieve, but I offer the following:

1) He has a very competent team behind him who have charted a realistic path of progression for him in the WRC;

2) He is only 23 years old;

3) He is only in his third year of rallying;

4) He is very smart;

5) He has been in the spot light since he was 14 years old;

6) He is used to being the best in the world and what he does; and

7) He wants to be the best rally driver in the world.

Where will he be by 2010? Probably in a WRC car, but whether it is a factory car or a private team remains to be seen.

SubaruNorway

12th March 2007, 16:26

Didn't his team manager Derek used to work for the Mitshubishi world rally team http://rally.subaru.com/event_2007_100acre_gallery2.html

Doug Woods

12th March 2007, 16:32

Didn't his team manager Derek used to work for the Mitshubishi world rally team

Yes. He will be invaluable in guiding Travis over the next few years in the WRC.

JAM

12th March 2007, 16:45

First thing: Come to Europe to do some rallyes to learn something that will be very usefull: To learn how to drive in rallying. After that can try world results with better visibility and experience.

The guy has skills, but has to develop them in a smooth and quiet way. WRC is good to develope, but not so good to start to learn the basic. After some rallyes in Europe, he will be ready to show a really better pace than in Mexico.

A.F.F.

12th March 2007, 19:50

Yep... and try to cope in this forum supporting your favourite driver Doug. It's not always very easy ;)

Tomi

12th March 2007, 20:21

send him to finland to see how real men have fun with their pants on.... nah, i mean, seriously, he should really have tried to have a go at the finnish rally this year.

Good idea, he would be in top 15 or atleast close. :)

DonJippo

12th March 2007, 20:27

Good idea, he would be in top 15 or atleast close. :)

In N-group you mean?

Tomi

12th March 2007, 20:31

In N-group you mean?

yes in N.

Doug Woods

12th March 2007, 20:46

Yep... and try to cope in this forum supporting your favourite driver Doug. It's not always very easy ;)

Actually, Travis is not my favourite driver.

I am associated with Andrew Comrie-Picard who is doing quite well this year in the Rally America championship competing against Travis.

However, I do admire what Travis is trying to do in terms of advancing in the WRC. So, I make posts from time to time just to ensure that those of you outside of North America get proper information on him.

Let's assess where he is after the completion of the 2008 PWRC.

Tomi

12th March 2007, 20:55

Actually, Travis is not my favourite driver.

I am associated with Andrew Comrie-Picard who is doing quite well this year in the Rally America championship competing against Travis.

However, I do admire what Travis is trying to do in terms of advancing in the WRC. So, I make posts from time to time just to ensure that those of you outside of North America get proper information on him.

Let's assess where he is after the completion of the 2008 PWRC.

will be interesting to follow what happens yes, and how they build the carreer,
btw. Doug, how is Taisto Heinonen now days?

FrankenSchwinn

12th March 2007, 21:22

i was wondering about his car..... usually he has 450+bhp available on his right foot, i wonder if he just isnt used to the gr.N set up yet.

L5->R5/CR

12th March 2007, 21:52

i was wondering about his car..... usually he has 450+bhp available on his right foot, i wonder if he just isnt used to the gr.N set up yet.

Not sure where you got that number but....

AFIK, is that the current crop of open cars, with the 34mm restrictor inplace here in the US, do not have 450 bhp (450 foot pounds of torque maybe, but more like 375 BHP tops, remember he spent 2005 in a N4 car).

There is still enough competition and for Travis to learn about rallying for the US to make sense for him, probably won't be true in 2008 or by the end of 2008. But until he is consistently putting to shame competitive fields here in the US, I don't see the point in all the Eurocentric talk at this point (other than people always thinking Europe is the best).I always love how people with a tainted view of the level of competition in the US always say to go Europe (I'm sure he will soon enough, but he isn't stomping the US field left and right yet so there is room to learn and develop in his home championship still).

TP needs to try to get within .5sec/km of the PWRC rally leader by the end of GB and hopefully by the end of 2008 be a legitimate contender for the win in a PWRC. He has all the tools to get himself to that level, and beyond, the question is more like will he be able to do so.

As for going to Finland... Remember he has US backers. Rally Finland will likely be the same weekend at the ESPN Summer X Games. Maybe in 2008 they will be able to avoid a schedule like that, but his sponsors get way too much out of the X games for him to not be there.

Tomi

12th March 2007, 22:01

As for going to Finland... Remember he has US backers. Rally Finland will likely be the same weekend at the ESPN Summer X Games. Maybe in 2008 they will be able to avoid a schedule like that, but his sponsors get way too much out of the X games for him to not be there.

actually i did mean finnish championship event, not the 1000 lakes.

Doug Woods

12th March 2007, 23:02

Doug, how is Taisto Heinonen now days?

Tomi:

Taisto is doing very well. Two months ago we had a big celebration of the 50th anniversary of the Canadian Rally Championship and I spent a lot of time talking to him.

Go to this link and you will see Taisto in the bottom row, far right. Beside him are Jean-Paul Perusse, myself and Walter Boyce.

http://209.250.151.132/CARSRally/Default.aspx?tabid=128

As part of the celebration there were rally cars on display from each decade of the championship. One of them was Taisto's Toyota Celica from the early 1980s. It had been freshly painted in the exact colour scheme as when Taisto rallied the car. When he first saw the car, I thought he was going to cry.

Thanks for asking about him.

FrankenSchwinn

13th March 2007, 01:10

-didnt they used to have 36mm restrictors? that's where i got 450. he did spend all last year in an open and that's what it took for him to win. has he been in a winning N4?
-my finnish comment was just to stir things up. choiniere can still kick his ass, he has lots to learn here (not sure he'll ever beat paul on a good day).
-xgames is, well, i don't have nice things to say about xgames nor that mountaindew generation/type of people.
-and the .5s/km by the end of 08, well, that is exactly what i was thinking. it's going to be a long road.

Not sure where you got that number but....

AFIK, is that the current crop of open cars, with the 34mm restrictor inplace here in the US, do not have 450 bhp (450 foot pounds of torque maybe, but more like 375 BHP tops, remember he spent 2005 in a N4 car).

There is still enough competition and for Travis to learn about rallying for the US to make sense for him, probably won't be true in 2008 or by the end of 2008. But until he is consistently putting to shame competitive fields here in the US, I don't see the point in all the Eurocentric talk at this point (other than people always thinking Europe is the best).I always love how people with a tainted view of the level of competition in the US always say to go Europe (I'm sure he will soon enough, but he isn't stomping the US field left and right yet so there is room to learn and develop in his home championship still).

TP needs to try to get within .5sec/km of the PWRC rally leader by the end of GB and hopefully by the end of 2008 be a legitimate contender for the win in a PWRC. He has all the tools to get himself to that level, and beyond, the question is more like will he be able to do so.

As for going to Finland... Remember he has US backers. Rally Finland will likely be the same weekend at the ESPN Summer X Games. Maybe in 2008 they will be able to avoid a schedule like that, but his sponsors get way too much out of the X games for him to not be there.

bt52b

13th March 2007, 01:45

Not sure where you got that number but....

I don't see the point in all the Eurocentric talk at this point (other than people always thinking Europe is the best).I always love how people with a tainted view of the level of competition in the US always say to go Europe (I'm sure he will soon enough, but he isn't stomping the US field left and right yet so there is room to learn and develop in his home championship still).

The idea of going to Europe would be to learn how to drive on pacenotes. How many pacenote rallies are there in America. You could probably do an international or national rally every weekend in Europe that uses pacenotes.

Maybe Pentti he needs a few lessons from Pentti too :D

It Subaru start running more customers teams, maybe he will run a WRC. Hardly likely to be a problem with the budget ;)

L5->R5/CR

13th March 2007, 02:34

-didnt they used to have 36mm restrictors? that's where i got 450. he did spend all last year in an open and that's what it took for him to win. has he been in a winning N4?
-my finnish comment was just to stir things up. choiniere can still kick his ass, he has lots to learn here (not sure he'll ever beat paul on a good day).
-xgames is, well, i don't have nice things to say about xgames nor that mountaindew generation/type of people.
-and the .5s/km by the end of 08, well, that is exactly what i was thinking. it's going to be a long road.

They used to have 40, then dropped, and now it seems to have settled with 34mm for Open.

He wasn't winning with the N4 car (but until the X games last year they were running N4 cars with more power) but that was his first full year of rallying, going up against Pat Richard and Stig. He was fairly competitive in the N4 car though no match for Pat.

It will be interesting to see how he progresses at Oregon. Pinker got on real well there, but he is still getting the newer car sorted. Tanner likes that event, and will probably have some of the things that were holding him back at 100AW sorted. Paul is always a threat, but I don't think he will take the risks to win (he is in it for the X games and the X games $$$), ACP and Lagemann are also contenders, and ACP seems to be pushing for wins instead of X Games points.

The idea of going to Europe would be to learn how to drive on pacenotes. How many pacenote rallies are there in America. You could probably do an international or national rally every weekend in Europe that uses pacenotes.

More and more events are offering one or two pass recce in the US. And the team has hinted they will be doing Canadian 2 pass events as an independent team (not SRT-USA). I wouldn't be surprised if he pops up somewhere on the globe for more recce time, maybe even time with a WRC competitor to work on pace noting (he spent a good chunk of time with Jakke last year which seemed to help).

Maybe Pentti he needs a few lessons from Pentti too :D

Won't say it wouldn't be a good thing (and I wouldn't be surprised if he had more "training"). The team does have John Buffum on staff and he has been a great mentor for Travis. TP also spent some time at one point, I believe with the Higgins brothers, at rally school in GB. DC Shoes also has their own rally testing and practice facility and VTCar has access to Tim O'Neils school for testing and practice.

He's not a world beater right now, but there is hope!

It is just really exciting to see a US driver not getting taken to school on the international level. It also really helps to bring some more credability domestically to the level of competition, which is great!

Helstar

13th March 2007, 04:18

Still considering this is his first time in Group N car and with using pace note

Sorry can you clear this thing ... first time on WRC or in general ? No pace notes ? Look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Js_BYaU80w

jparker

13th March 2007, 05:14

If Pastrana wants to conquer the WRC, he must follow the footsteps of all greatest in this sport. I'm sorry to say that, but this can't happen in US. The sooner he realizes that, the better. Otherwise he will be the next Pat Richard.
John Buffum is not enough.

Erki

13th March 2007, 10:36

Sorry can you clear this thing ... first time on WRC or in general ? No pace notes ? Look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Js_BYaU80w

In the US, they don't have recce. Instead, they are handed pace notes by officials. So making pace notes is still a new thing to him.

Shrike

13th March 2007, 13:59

Yes and he admitted to making mistakes in his pace notes which is understandable for his first time. This guy has talent and desire and will go as far as he wants in the WRC.

Daniel

13th March 2007, 14:09

Yes and he admitted to making mistakes in his pace notes which is understandable for his first time. This guy has talent and desire and will go as far as he wants in the WRC.
Many people have come with a bagload of talent, a raft full of sponsors and a shedload of determination and have gone nowhere. Don't talk the guy up before he starts getting results. Travis could go somewhere, he might not go anywhere........ no one knows right now.

Shrike

13th March 2007, 15:24

You're absolutely right, I was only stating my opinion and not what I believed to be fact. I thought that went without saying but I stand corrected. ;)

Tomi

13th March 2007, 15:41

Tomi:

Taisto is doing very well. Two months ago we had a big celebration of the 50th anniversary of the Canadian Rally Championship and I spent a lot of time talking to him.

Go to this link and you will see Taisto in the bottom row, far right. Beside him are Jean-Paul Perusse, myself and Walter Boyce.

http://209.250.151.132/CARSRally/Default.aspx?tabid=128

As part of the celebration there were rally cars on display from each decade of the championship. One of them was Taisto's Toyota Celica from the early 1980s. It had been freshly painted in the exact colour scheme as when Taisto rallied the car. When he first saw the car, I thought he was going to cry.

Thanks for asking about him.

Thanks, good he is well, look's like you did have a nice anniversary party :)

L5->R5/CR

13th March 2007, 16:13

I'm just going to say this and then stay out of this thread if it lives on.

Pastrana/Edstrom had a really solid debut. They didn't set the stages on fire but they put in good times, showed some promise, and I am sure are going to go through the weekend and find a way to improve against the rest of the field; hopefully by the end of GB they will be putting in close times to what it takes to lead (my .5sec/km). The team knows where they are, and where they want to be, and will find a way to get there.

I think a lot of people underestimate where the sharp end of the field is in the US. Its not like it is in a lot of European Championships, but most people have a really low opinion of the competition; the fields seem to be somewhere in the middle in terms of the level of competition.

Personally I am really excited to see an American putting in decent times on the international level, the fact that the same person is not walking all over the domestic competition really helps validate the domestic quality of the championship which is great for rallying in America (as is having SYMS running a team in the US).

Hopefully Travis can continue to find more speed and the opportunities to keep progressing will follow. Congratulations to Travis and Bjorn thus far.

bowler

14th March 2007, 10:55

I agree with L5->.

Pastrana is a good competitor, and will do well. Early days in Mexico, and not disgraced by any measure.

Having an American for fans to follow will do great things for Rally in the USA.

He can, and will do much better.

Already he is popular with the media because he knows how to get the best out of them, and he does it by being sincere and genuine.

Talent and media is a good mix.

I expect great things

jparker

14th March 2007, 13:29

I agree with L5->.

Having an American for fans to follow will do great things for Rally in the USA.

What do you mean by "follow"? Currently each North American event is locked like military zone and no spectators are allowed. That's not rally, and will never be, no matter what Pastrana does.
SCCA or whoever governs the sport in US are buch of incapable older folks, and because of them this sport will never be popular in US.
Same thing here in Canada, whatever US do, we follow.

SubaruNorway

14th March 2007, 14:49

Doug Woods

14th March 2007, 15:01

What do you mean by "follow"? Currently each North American event is locked like military zone and no spectators are allowed. That's not rally, and will never be, no matter what Pastrana does.
SCCA or whoever governs the sport in US are buch of incapable older folks, and because of them this sport will never be popular in US.
Same thing here in Canada, whatever US do, we follow.

JParker:

I have no idea who you are, but everything you posted in the quote is 100% untrue.

Have you ever been to an event in the Rally America or Canadian Championships?

1) Spectators are allowed at every event in both championships.

2) SCCA does not govern stage rallying in the US.

3) Rally America is not a bunch of incapable older folks. They are very experienced rallyists who are doing amazing things to increase the popularity of rallying in the US.

4) Your comments on what we do in Canada are just ignorant.

There are some of us who post on this forum, from time to time, to try to let our friends in Europe or around the world get a more accurate impression of where the sport is at and where it might be heading in North America.

When you post sh!t like this, you are doing our sport a total dis-service.

L5->R5/CR

14th March 2007, 15:17

What do you mean by "follow"? Currently each North American event is locked like military zone and no spectators are allowed.

Although I agree with Doug's tactic, I'll post the correct rebuttal information so it is here.

Spectating in the US is limited to pre-determined spectator locations. This is due to three factors:
1) The death of spectators in the past has forced organizations to display that they are better managing the risk that spectators undertake to their insurance. This is the major one.
2) The quality and frequency of spectating locations is often related to the lack of organizing man power that can be diverted to this task. For better or for worse most all of the organizers are volunteers which recieve no financial benefit from their events (I would contend there is perhaps on organizer on the West Coast that MIGHT be making a living off of rallies, but he is the only one). Because of this there are normally not enough people in the organization to dedicate to spectating after managing all the other critical areas of a rally.
3) There is a lack of marshalls at most events. There are plenty of keyboard spectators that are unwilling to do anything about spectating, but complain about it every chance they get. If you love rally so much why not volunteer, in most cases all a spectator location needs to have to be added, is a place for people to park that doesn't require accessing the stage, a view of the action, and a couple of people to marshall it.

That's not rally, and will never be, no matter what Pastrana does.
SCCA or whoever governs the sport in US are buch of incapable older folks, and because of them this sport will never be popular in US.
Same thing here in Canada, whatever US do, we follow.

Go to a couple of events before you continue to post this kind of BS.

jparker

14th March 2007, 15:19

JParker:

I have no idea who you are, but everything you posted in the quote is 100% untrue.

Have you ever been to an event in the Rally America or Canadian Championships?

1) Spectators are allowed at every event in both championships.

2) SCCA does not govern stage rallying in the US.

3) Rally America is not a bunch of incapable older folks. They are very experienced rallyists who are doing amazing things to increase the popularity of rallying in the US.

4) Your comments on what we do in Canada are just ignorant.

There are some of us who post on this forum, from time to time, to try to let our friends in Europe or around the world get a more accurate impression of where the sport is at and where it might be heading in North America.

When you post sh!t like this, you are doing our sport a total dis-service.

1. Really? Do you think 2-3 designated spectators areas is good enough? I don't think so.

2. Whatever.............

3. What "amaizing things"? Like restricting access to special stages? And you call this "increase the popularity"? How can event become popular by restricting access to it?

4. Didn't access restriction to special stages in Canada started short after US did so? Strange how one can call the real facts "ingnorant".

jparker

14th March 2007, 15:27

Although I agree with Doug's tactic, I'll post the correct rebuttal information so it is here.

Spectating in the US is limited to pre-determined spectator locations. This is due to three factors:
1) The death of spectators in the past has forced organizations to display that they are better managing the risk that spectators undertake to their insurance. This is the major one.
2) The quality and frequency of spectating locations is often related to the lack of organizing man power that can be diverted to this task. For better or for worse most all of the organizers are volunteers which recieve no financial benefit from their events (I would contend there is perhaps on organizer on the West Coast that MIGHT be making a living off of rallies, but he is the only one). Because of this there are normally not enough people in the organization to dedicate to spectating after managing all the other critical areas of a rally.
3) There is a lack of marshalls at most events. There are plenty of keyboard spectators that are unwilling to do anything about spectating, but complain about it every chance they get. If you love rally so much why not volunteer, in most cases all a spectator location needs to have to be added, is a place for people to park that doesn't require accessing the stage, a view of the action, and a couple of people to marshall it.

Go to a couple of events before you continue to post this kind of BS.

And why there is no man power? Because of the all good work making the rallry racing popular?
I don't want to voluteer because I want to enjoy the rally the way I want.
All the insurance and safety conserns can be easely resolved by signing a waver and why not paying a fee? This way there will be money for marshals.
There is so much that can be done, but with capable people.

In general, you can't make sport popular by restricting access to it, that's plain stupid. If one can't do it, then stop talking about making rally sport popular in North America. It will never happen.

Shrike

14th March 2007, 15:54

Doug Woods

14th March 2007, 15:59

L5->R5/CR

14th March 2007, 16:00

And why there is no man power? Because of the all good work making the rallry racing popular?
I don't want to voluteer because I want to enjoy the rally the way I want.
All the insurance and safety conserns can be easely resolved by signing a waver and why not paying a fee? This way there will be money for marshals.
There is so much that can be done, but with capable people.

In general, you can't make sport popular by restricting access to it, that's plain stupid. If one can't do it, then stop talking about making rally sport popular in North America. It will never happen.

Go to the Tall Pines rally and get the VIP package then.

As for the rest, no comment. You really don't understand what it takes and what is going on behind the scenes to be able to understand the situation, and I am done once and for all with this thread.

jparker

14th March 2007, 16:49

Kevin:

I suggest that we not respond any further to this jerk. He is clearly living vicariously throught his computer and has no concept of what is going on in Canada or the US.

Interestingly, he lives in the area that I do and I have never heard of him.

I saw that he has a fair number of posts on this forum and I went and looked at some of them.

His lack of knowledge certainly extents to any number of topics.

Hmm, that kind of reply says it all I'm afraid.
I may have luck of knowlage, but I don't call people jerks if they have different opinion.

And BTW, please ask people in this forum if they are willing to visit rally event if they know they will be stack in 1-2 places.

jparker

14th March 2007, 16:55

Go to the Tall Pines rally and get the VIP package then.

As for the rest, no comment. You really don't understand what it takes and what is going on behind the scenes to be able to understand the situation, and I am done once and for all with this thread.

Do you actualy know what that VIP package offer?
It's like going to see museum for people that heve never seen rally car in their life.
And what's wrong with not understanding the situation?
Isn't that the point of forums, to discus things?
Why is your reaction so negative about my opinion?

SubaruNorway

14th March 2007, 16:56

Some videos of the Subaru Rally Team USA http://www.subie.tv/player/?videoid=83&catid=12

Shrike

14th March 2007, 17:10

stop talking about making rally sport popular in North America.

Isn't that the point of forums, to discus things?

So which is it?

jparker

14th March 2007, 18:00

So which is it?

Sorry, I don't understand your question?
As per your previous post, the optimistic talk about rally racing getting popular in North America has been going around for the last 10 years (probably more, but I don't have knowlage about it). So, what are the results? None. We are still taliking about it.
Now, that doesn't mean I'm not open to discus this opinion of mine.

Shrike

14th March 2007, 18:15

the optimistic talk about rally racing getting popular in North America has been going around for the last 10 years (probably more, but I don't have knowlage about it). So, what are the results? None.

Well for starters Travis Pastrana has brought MUCH interest into the sport so much so that they added a rally event to the 2006 X-Games nationally televised on ESPN! How is that for a start?

As I stated earlier there is a commercial for BFGoodrich showing some rally racing.

Discovery Channel had an entire episode of ken block showcasing what a rally car can do.

Sunday there was a show on discovery that had a segment on the top 5 road rally cars of all time featuring the lancer, impreza, quatro, stratos, rs-200

There is so much interest that ESPN2 is covering the 2007 season of Rally America starting next month.

Where is the result you ask? You are clearly blinded by your own pessimism.

bowler

14th March 2007, 18:22

What do you mean by "follow"?

by "follow" I mean "support", "barrack for" ,"root for" or whatever terminology you choose.

Having a "hero" to "follow" is what brings fans to a sport, and if this brings new fans then that is better still.

Sorry to see that you don't want to assist, but just want to watch.
You are indeed lucky there are some folk (even if they are "old") who are prepared to work while you watch.

A.F.F.

14th March 2007, 19:21

As per your previous post, the optimistic talk about rally racing getting popular in North America has been going around for the last 10 years (probably more, but I don't have knowlage about it). So, what are the results? None. We are still taliking about it.
Now, that doesn't mean I'm not open to discus this opinion of mine.

:confused:

What is wrong with optimistic talk ?

Without optimistic talk in the first place, there would have not been WRC rallying in Norway or in Ireland or getting WRC back to Portugal.

cut the b.s.

14th March 2007, 19:25

(probably more, but I don't have knowlage about it).

Ah, so you do let lack of knowledge stop you on some topics but not others? How do you decide when to and when not to display your ignorance?

FrankenSchwinn

14th March 2007, 19:37

just thought of something as i was reading JP's posts:

-i've only been to STPR in my time in the USA. and i've always seen kids there as marshalls. now, i know that to graduate from high school in Maryland, you need to have community service hours. i know one needs to do that at a non-profit, but, especially at STPR, there could be a way to set it up where the kids are there to "protect" the state park. you'd get much more volunteers i bet. just a thought.

JP,
seriously, chill out one second. the one and single reason for the north american scene is because there are some die-hard rallymen like Mr. Woods here and some others who work their butts off to keep this thing alive but also kicking. it's not like it's on life support you know. i don't know what your experience in other countries is, but i can tell you from having been to a few events myself, it's really not bad in the US. sure, you've only got a few spots, but they are 1.more easily accessible 2.less people to bother you (in general) 3.the crowd is fun. they are less knowledgeable, but i've had much better time with PA rednecks than with cocky know-it-alls from the EU (might tell you something about me huh?) 4.spots are actually well chosen compared to the stage outline (at STPR).

but also what you have in the usa is that little club feel that everyone is here to have fun before anything else. it's not their job (for most) it's not their duty but it's for the one and only reason that they f'kn love it. i've talken with cops (dont ask why) and firefighters (again, just dont) at the stages and they love it too. they might not know every event but they sure know the one they are at.

now, from a former skater perspective, when skating became more and more popular (late 90's) skateparks had to close because of insurance costs. a kid would go on a ramp somewhere in nebraska and break his neck and the insurance would have to pay up so they raised the costs to the park in maryland making it impossible to have such a business. that is why rallying is so difficult on american soilS. notice the S on there. do you really think that because you sing a different anthem than the yanks you are different from them? nope. canadians suffer the same from what plagues american rallies (or so i am lead to believe. Mr Woods could fill us in on this). how are you going to be able to put an event together, at least break even, and have people come rally if you have to charge them 5Gs for a 100mi of stages because of insurance prices? you do forget that this continent is wreckless with the "sueing" thing.

wait, you know what? screw you! you post some more crap like you have without checking facts and I'LL SUE YOU! forget you man, you are there thinking you are the sh!t because your little testies have been to a rally where they speak a different language, but if you are not willing to even work for it, rallying will not work for you! go to the F1 forum or something.....

jparker

14th March 2007, 20:16

just thought of something as i was reading JP's posts:

wait, you know what? screw you! you post some more crap like you have without checking facts and I'LL SUE YOU! forget you man, you are there thinking you are the sh!t because your little testies have been to a rally where they speak a different language, but if you are not willing to even work for it, rallying will not work for you! go to the F1 forum or something.....

Well, I like this forum the way it is :) .
And what are you goin to sue me for?

I still beleive that restricting access to stages doesn't make an event safer.
Following this loginc, no humans should be allow to cross the street.
It may sound selfish, but I do like to be on my own when spectaiting. I like to prepare my own maps, make my own plan a so on.

FrankenSchwinn

14th March 2007, 20:38

Well, I like this forum the way it is :) .
And what are you goin to sue me for?

I still beleive that restricting access to stages doesn't make an event safer.
Following this loginc, no humans should be allow to cross the street.
It may sound selfish, but I do like to be on my own when spectaiting. I like to prepare my own maps, make my own plan a so on.

are you serious? i mean, did you not read what L5 or i wrote? spectators do/could get hurt. insurance companies make organizers pay for that sheer possibility. hence in order to keep events running, you get controled areas. plus, who's going to control prepubs like you from going all over the stages and be in unsafe places? did you forget the lack of marshalls?

L5->R5/CR

14th March 2007, 20:45

Well, I like this forum the way it is :) .
And what are you goin to sue me for?

I still beleive that restricting access to stages doesn't make an event safer.
Following this loginc, no humans should be allow to cross the street.
It may sound selfish, but I do like to be on my own when spectaiting. I like to prepare my own maps, make my own plan a so on.

I don't want to continue the thread derailment but...

Spectator locations don't have to make spectating safer. It has to make insurance companies feel that the risk has been minimized (a lot of things have to be done to make the insurance companies more comfortable).

All but the highest level of rallying in the US almost ceased to exist in 2003, the last year of free spectating, because of a tragic incident in PA at the Sawmill rally when a couple of spectators were struck and killed. That is the narrow line that rallying in the US has to walk. If you really want to discuss this open a thread in the NA forum.

Doug Woods

14th March 2007, 21:05

I still beleive that restricting access to stages doesn't make an event safer.
Following this loginc, no humans should be allow to cross the street.
It may sound selfish, but I do like to be on my own when spectaiting. I like to prepare my own maps, make my own plan a so on.

Well, I would like to do that also. But in most places in the world this is becoming less and less possible.

For example, on the Rally GB, spectating is at designated locations and you will pay quite a lot for a ticket and parking.

Sure, there are lots of old spectating pros who know how to sneak into their favourite spots, but almost everyone is spectating at official areas.

It's just the way things are going to be in the future.

We saw lots of examples on the recent Rally Mexico of uncontrolled spectators and how their misbehaviour might cost the event its WRC status.

Anyway, I agree with Kevin. This thread has been totally highjacked.

jparker

14th March 2007, 21:12

are you serious? i mean, did you not read what L5 or i wrote? spectators do/could get hurt. insurance companies make organizers pay for that sheer possibility. hence in order to keep events running, you get controled areas. plus, who's going to control prepubs like you from going all over the stages and be in unsafe places? did you forget the lack of marshalls?

Well, last week in Mexico the luck of marshals was obvious, but there were no restrictions for the locals. They were enjoying the relly the way it's ment to be. And nobody got hurt. There are machines, cars, trucks all around us on a daily bases. The danger is all around us every single day of our lives. If you don't pay attention, you die. That's live. Single accident in the histroy of American rallying should not be a reason for access restrictions.

Insurance. What's the problem to sign a waver? This way the organizors are not responsible. And they can actualy make money out of this. All they have to do is publish the waver on their web site, ask to sign and fax back, and charge for it.

cut the b.s.

14th March 2007, 21:20

Well, last week in Mexico the luck of marshals was obvious, but there were no restrictions for the locals. They were enjoying the relly the way it's ment to be. And nobody got hurt. There are machines, cars, trucks all around us on a daily bases. The danger is all around us every single day of our lives. If you don't pay attention, you die. That's live. Single accident in the histroy of American rallying should not be a reason for access restrictions.

Insurance. What's the problem to sign a waver? This way the organizors are not responsible. And they can actualy make money out of this. All they have to do is publish the waver on their web site, ask to sign and fax back, and charge for it.

What is your native language?

tribefiend

14th March 2007, 21:36

jparker, with popularity will come changes. Just last night I saw a BFGoodrich commercial with rally in it! Rally is becoming more popular here weather you like it or not and there will be more fans and funding to help with more spectator areas and whatever else to make the fans happy.
To suggest it will never be popular and to stop talking about it is just ridiculous, they said the same thing about MMA. You are definitely part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Not to mention all the WRX's and Evo's that have sold here in the US since they became available. People buy those cars because they know where they come from. I've been to alot of rallies in the pacific northwest and it seems that I am the only one without a WRX right now.

jparker

14th March 2007, 23:26

What is your native language?

Not US English, that's for sure :)

FrankenSchwinn

15th March 2007, 01:00

jparker

15th March 2007, 01:19

better question, how old are you? just asking because you seem to completely disregard arguments....

Old enough to go alone and hide in the forest of Maniwaki during the night, so I can see the Kitigan-Zibi SS. But was I rewarded for that? Yes, I saw the best part of the rally :)

L5->R5/CR

15th March 2007, 01:24

Old enough to go alone and hide in the forest of Maniwaki during the night, so I can see the Kitigan-Zibi SS. But was I rewarded for that? Yes, I saw the best part of the rally :)

Probably could have been a marshal, stood in the same spot, gotten a t-shirt and maybe free lunch, and not had to hide in the dark, or risk having the stage cancelled because you wanted to be special....

jparker

15th March 2007, 01:29

Probably could have been a marshal, stood in the same spot, gotten a t-shirt and maybe free lunch, and not had to hide in the dark, or risk having the stage cancelled because you wanted to be special....
True, but what can I do. That's the way I'm.

cali

15th March 2007, 08:52

Is this The Pastrana thread???

Larry_Japan

15th March 2007, 21:53

yes it is! And the Mexican locals can behave themselves, with Travis. look at last year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pq6xqHAJVo

tribefiend

15th March 2007, 22:04

I very much enjoyed watching Travis in Mexico and I think 5th was a great result for him. I think the main goal was to finish without problems and he took care of that. I await his return to the Olympus and Oregon Trail rallies here in the northwest.

Rally in the US is on it's way up!

jparker

16th March 2007, 00:28

I wish all the best to Pastrana, but somehow I feel this thread relates to Mattew Wilson's one. Don't know why, just a feeling. So, I guess it will be wise for Pastrana's fans to keep quite for a while and let the guy prove himself by results, not by media.

jparker

16th March 2007, 00:32

yes it is! And the Mexican locals can behave themselves, with Travis. look at last year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pq6xqHAJVo

The end of the video shows Pastrana passioned about ralling, which is good sign.

tribefiend

16th March 2007, 01:33

So, I guess it will be wise for Pastrana's fans to keep quite for a while and let the guy prove himself by results, not by media.

Yeah you're right...all of us Pastrana fans should be quiet and not express any emotion for his potential. After all nobody can be a fan of somebody who hasn't proven himself yet. I'll check back with his progress in 3 or 4 years when he may have reached the WRC, but he might not be competitive in WRC for another 3 or 4 years after that...so I'll just forget about him til about 2015. Sorry Travis.

jparker

16th March 2007, 01:47

Yeah you're right...all of us Pastrana fans should be quiet and not express any emotion for his potential. After all nobody can be a fan of somebody who hasn't proven himself yet. I'll check back with his progress in 3 or 4 years when he may have reached the WRC, but he might not be competitive in WRC for another 3 or 4 years after that...so I'll just forget about him til about 2015. Sorry Travis.

Well, I didn't mean that much quite :)
I bet you don't want to see Pastrana in Mattew's position, is that right?

Bjorn240

16th March 2007, 09:09

jparker

16th March 2007, 13:22

Mickey T

16th March 2007, 15:03

I just can't help but wonder about Travis, though.

even if you look at the Australian championship, the top guys in it have consistently traded split times, stage times, and often won rallies, against the top PWRC guys.

Check the times of Dean Herridge and Cody Crocker in the WRC rounds in Australia, New Zealand and even Japan (or even Chris when he was in Group N in Finland - when he had all-wheel drive) and you'll see what i mean.

historically, too, Ed Ordynski has repeatedly won the group n class at rally oz and in new zealand, and Ross Dunkerton has mixed it up front in Group A.

I hope he's the great white hope of US rallying, because that's something the sport can only benefit from. That he's a character only adds to that hope.

I just can't see his career being furthered by remaining in the US. Half of the sport's world champions have come from Finland, and all of them have come from Europe. Would have thought the link was obvious...

koko0703

16th March 2007, 20:10

The only place people whinge about Matthew Wilson is on this forum. In real life, Matthew is an absolutely fantastic guy who is very serious about becoming a future rally champion and who has put together a smart program to do so, especially given the restriction that he basically has to drive Fords. Both he and Michael deserve the very best. (Unless of course, Travis and I are racing in the same class as them - then we wish to beat them soundly!)

As for Travis and I, I'm afraid you'll all just have to wait a few years to see what potential we have; suffice to say we learned a lot in Mexico, and that the split times we've received were encouraging in terms of our speed and extremely instructive in where we are losing time. We have already identified two specific areas we need to work on, in addition to refining our notes a little. Look for slightly more speed in Argentina, while we'll still be driving to ensure a finish. The real speed won't come until the end of 2008 and all of 2009.

- Christian

First congulaturations on a solid point finish in Mexico, and I'm looking forward to seeing you and Travis making further progress in Argentina.

About Matthew Wilson, I think the problem is not Matthew himself but his program. I mean he jumped into WRCar with almost no WRC experience, and considering how young he is, Matthew could've done JWRC or PWRC to develop himself before stepping up to the top level. There are lots of criticism on Matthew because many fans doubt whether he is actually ready to compete in top level at this point, and so far he hasn't shown what the fans expect to see from the top WRC drivers.

I think it's both fortunate and unfortunate to have father who happens to run Ford WRC program.... Many fans will be happy to see Matthew on top of the podium, but his program is rushing him way too much. I really think he should've competed in JWRC at least for 1 or 2 seasons with limited WRC program.

LastDitchRacing

20th March 2007, 02:11

Public congrats for Travis and Christian and the Subaru US rally team in general for their Corona Rally performance.

Expectations from the interational community were low, and conversely high from those of us involved directly in the sport in the US and Canada.

As someone who jumped from an Open class WRX in the Canadian/US series to a 2WD Peugeot 206 XS 2WD in the Corona Rally Mexico last year, we were also concerned with how we'd stack up against the usual 206 pilotes.

Turns out we did quite well(until I drove us into a tree), as well as some other mis-adventures!

I'll be the first to agree that our depth of competition at the sharp end may not be that deep, but it is fairly quick. Most who have come over from Europe in recent years have been pleasantly surprised. I'm not saying that anyone here can win in an international PWRC field..yet. :-) More development is needed.

We have several issues here in North America. We have no driver development programmes in place and it is very difficult to attact sponsorship as the sport is still relatively unknown in mainstream media.

Travis' impact on the visability of the sport via the ROC, X-Games and now the PWRC have been the most significant events since Mitsubishi and Subaru fielded, "factory teams," here in the US and Canada.

As far as notes go, we've had a combination of blind rallies, Jemba notes, Jemba with a single, "familiarization," pass as well as two pass recce events.

Cheers! John

J.Lindstroem

20th March 2007, 07:34

jparker currently gets his ass kicked on this forum.

Funny.

Doon

20th March 2007, 12:17

We have several issues here in North America. We have no driver development programmes in place and it is very difficult to attact sponsorship as the sport is still relatively unknown in mainstream media.

I feel that is much like that in British Rallying at the moment, the only driver development is for the guys with serious cash and sponsorship is impossible to find unless you know someone who is willing to throw away alot of cash! Again, rallying is almost invisible to the Britsh media and the majority of the public. Sadly i dont think we'll ever get away from the fact that there are other forms of motorsport and general sport that are more exciting to the majority of the british public. Why? I dont know, its totally bizarre!

jparker

20th March 2007, 14:18

jparker currently gets his ass kicked on this forum.

Funny.

So what? I don't care.
The time will tell who is right on that one.
Of course, I would love to be wrong. After all I can't go to Europe every month to enjoy rallying.

amberie

20th March 2007, 22:14

First congulaturations on a solid point finish in Mexico, and I'm looking forward to seeing you and Travis making further progress in Argentina.

About Matthew Wilson, I think the problem is not Matthew himself but his program. I mean he jumped into WRCar with almost no WRC experience, and considering how young he is, Matthew could've done JWRC or PWRC to develop himself before stepping up to the top level. There are lots of criticism on Matthew because many fans doubt whether he is actually ready to compete in top level at this point, and so far he hasn't shown what the fans expect to see from the top WRC drivers.

I think it's both fortunate and unfortunate to have father who happens to run Ford WRC program.... Many fans will be happy to see Matthew on top of the podium, but his program is rushing him way too much. I really think he should've competed in JWRC at least for 1 or 2 seasons with limited WRC program.

I don't think Matthew Wilson could help what family he was born into. We complain how there's a lack of driver development programs, but when Matt gets a five-year plan, we complain too! I don't think he's doing anyone any harm by driving in the WRC, so why not just let him drive in peace?

Well for starters Travis Pastrana has brought MUCH interest into the sport so much so that they added a rally event to the 2006 X-Games nationally televised on ESPN! How is that for a start?

As I stated earlier there is a commercial for BFGoodrich showing some rally racing.

Discovery Channel had an entire episode of ken block showcasing what a rally car can do.

Sunday there was a show on discovery that had a segment on the top 5 road rally cars of all time featuring the lancer, impreza, quatro, stratos, rs-200

There is so much interest that ESPN2 is covering the 2007 season of Rally America starting next month.

Where is the result you ask? You are clearly blinded by your own pessimism.

Also, I've seen Audi Q7 commercials with shots of the Quattro driven by Walter Rohrl. Speed Channel's weekend news show always shows WRC clips in their teaser, cuz even they know it's spectacular.

Things were looking absolutely dire after Speed dropped WRC coverage here in the US. I'm just amazed at the growth of exposure the sport has had in just one short year. And one guy is almost wholly responsible for all this progress. I'm finding that I'm a Travis fan, with or without the motorcycle.

One can't acheive what Travis acheived in Mexico without talent and maturity. He finished in 5th, on his first world-class, 3-day event, first time with real pacenotes and first time with intense media scrutiny. With more experience, I fully expect Travis to graduate to the WRC with honors.

BTW, which show was it that featured the top 5 road rally cars?

WRXedUSA

22nd March 2007, 15:09

jparker currently gets his ass kicked on this forum.

Funny.

+1

It's been some time since I've seen someone of the likes on here.

charro_wrc

27th March 2007, 19:09

I like Pastrana´s driving style

http://server2.pictiger.com/img/87839/picture-hosting/dsc-7471.php

http://server2.pictiger.com/img/87835/picture-hosting/dsc-7466.php

Travis is a show man, and I would like to see him again in another WRC event.

cu.

SubaruNorway

27th March 2007, 19:16

He is doing the next event in Argentina if i remember right

Doug Woods

27th March 2007, 20:18

He is doing the next event in Argentina if i remember right

Correct. Then Rally GB at the end of the year.

Tomi

27th March 2007, 20:21

would be nice if pastrana could show some potential in argentina, a few top 3 stagetimes would be nice.

Bjorn240

27th March 2007, 20:36

Travis is a show man, and I would like to see him again in another WRC event.
Charro - I like the first photo! I remember that corner; that time it didn't go exactly as planned. Oh well, SSS!

He is doing the next event in Argentina if i remember right
Correct, we're also in Argentina and Wales Rally GB this year. Trying to do some recces as well.

would be nice if pastrana could show some potential in argentina, a few top 3 stagetimes would be nice.
Patience, Tomi. Please. Splits on the first day in Mexico were ok, but our notes on the second day weren't quite good enough. And the instructions from teammanagement were clear - finish, finish, finish! I would be surprised if you see a top 3 stagetime in Argentina - our goal is just to gather experience for 2008 and 2009. Experience which we have to earn by running every km of stage and taking few risks. Given the program in place, there is very little to gain by pushing hard in 2007, even though personally, we might want to go faster, sooner.

In 2008, we have to get some top 3 stagetimes on the events we've already done. In 2009, we have to get them on every stage at every event. Flat out and no excuses.

- Christian

Tomi

27th March 2007, 20:42

Patience, Tomi. Please. Splits on the first day in Mexico were ok, but our notes on the second day weren't quite good enough. And the instructions from teammanagement were clear - finish, finish, finish! I would be surprised if you see a top 3 stagetime in Argentina - our goal is just to gather experience for 2008 and 2009. Experience which we have to earn by running every km of stage and taking few risks. Given the program in place, there is very little to gain by pushing hard in 2007, even though personally, we might want to go faster, sooner.

In 2008, we have to get some top 3 stagetimes on the events we've already done. In 2009, we have to get them on every stage at every event. Flat out and no excuses.

- Christian

Correct the notes on the first run, and show a little speed on the second run, not on every stage but on 2-3 you feel you have a note that fits, it cant hurt anybody :)

L5->R5/CR

27th March 2007, 21:19

Charro - I like the first photo! I remember that corner; that time it didn't go exactly as planned. Oh well, SSS!

Correct, we're also in Argentina and Wales Rally GB this year. Trying to do some recces as well.

Patience, Tomi. Please. Splits on the first day in Mexico were ok, but our notes on the second day weren't quite good enough. And the instructions from teammanagement were clear - finish, finish, finish! I would be surprised if you see a top 3 stagetime in Argentina - our goal is just to gather experience for 2008 and 2009. Experience which we have to earn by running every km of stage and taking few risks. Given the program in place, there is very little to gain by pushing hard in 2007, even though personally, we might want to go faster, sooner.

In 2008, we have to get some top 3 stagetimes on the events we've already done. In 2009, we have to get them on every stage at every event. Flat out and no excuses.

- Christian

I'm just hoping for under 1.25 sec/km off the winners pace, we probably won't see 5th position, since Rally Argentina has a lot more entries and a stronger field, I think that would be an excellent progression though.

A.F.F.

27th March 2007, 21:43

In 2008, we have to get some top 3 stagetimes on the events we've already done. In 2009, we have to get them on every stage at every event. Flat out and no excuses.

- Christian

:up: :up:

Tomi

27th March 2007, 22:12

I'm just hoping for under 1.25 sec/km off the winners pace, we probably won't see 5th position, since Rally Argentina has a lot more entries and a stronger field, I think that would be an excellent progression though.

Yes, it's good to be realistic, and it's better to look at the clock rather than positions, also with very careful driving one can finish surprisingly high, 1 flat costs usually many positions, and in Argentina there will be many.

ZequeArgentina

27th March 2007, 22:18

I think that Bjorn and Travis have very clear what they should do.
Top 3 in an event like Argentina, with the strong entry list and fast locals is very unlikely with the approach they have (learn and finish).

Route is not easy, experience is very improtant here, and beside the locals Arai, Al Attiyah, Higgins all have experience here. Fog is a probability (100% reliable notes are a must in those conditions), a roads are tricky (very fast and you may broke a tire, too slow and you are just slow).

Anyway, good luck and Travis is a great news for Rally. If he suceeds, rally will probably enter in US.

Doug Woods

27th March 2007, 22:33

Anyway, good luck and Travis is a great news for Rally. If he suceeds, rally will probably enter in US.

Zeque:

I think what you meant to say in the last sentence was "a WRC rally will probably return to the US".

Actually, if Travis is successful, then it will mean much more to the Rally America (and Canadian) rally championships. These are the championships that need to achieve more support and establish themselves as legitimate motorsport series in the USA and Canada.

Those in the know over here, have no desire for the WRC to return to the USA or Canada, at least not until our domestic championships are well supported and funded.

Addicted

28th March 2007, 01:10

ZequeArgentina

28th March 2007, 01:36

No, no. I was meaning rally to really enter in US market as a solid motorsport. Nowadays it looks from the outside as very limited, with inly one team, and few quick drivers. It exists and it is growing, but possibilities to develop it in the world biggest market is very promising. Mostly if the tendency to increase euro-like cars sales in the US markets continues; as euro-cars are more suiotabel to rallying.

WRC round should come as a result

L5->R5/CR

28th March 2007, 01:52

Will be interesting to follow his times. He has driven only once with real pacenotes if I`m correct (Mexico).

It will be even more important to learn drive by the notes than just aim on good result in this point.

And the competition will be very tough since there are some fast Argentinians to watch out.

They will be getting more noting experience come this summer. Travis and Bjorn, as well as their team mates, are going to privately enter events in Canada that have 2 pass recce to gain more experience (some of the events in the US are adopting a single pass option, and we might see a 2 pass event in 2006 or 2007 in the Rally-America series). Won't make an impact for Argentina, but they should be more acustom to it by GB.

No, no. I was meaning rally to really enter in US market as a solid motorsport. Nowadays it looks from the outside as very limited, with inly one team, and few quick drivers. It exists and it is growing, but possibilities to develop it in the world biggest market is very promising. Mostly if the tendency to increase euro-like cars sales in the US markets continues; as euro-cars are more suiotabel to rallying.

WRC round should come as a result

I think the SYMS/Rockstar Energy Drink team would take exception to not being considered as a real team.

True, there is only one factory team. But sources indicate that the SYMS team has similiar backing as the factory team (on a per car basis) with perhaps more expereince.

There are also a couple of very quick drivers running in lower category cars because of costs. If they could come up with 10 times the budget they have now they'd have the potential to challenge the factory team.

The sport will only become more legitimate if the series can attract credibility and meaningful financial interest. Once the sport becomes financially viable with legitimate and value holding championships we might see some real growth.

Although, trying to take rallying to Las Vegas is not a step in the right direction.

Also, there might be yet one more go at putting together a US event that will become a candidate event, sooner than a lot of people think...

Doon

28th March 2007, 09:19

Route is not easy, experience is very improtant here, and beside the locals Arai, Al Attiyah, Higgins all have experience here.

Didn't think Miggins was doing Argentina, pretty sure he said his next one was Greece. Correct me if i'm wrong!

cheers

Karukera

28th March 2007, 11:19

Those in the know over here, have no desire for the WRC to return to the USA or Canada, at least not until our domestic championships are well supported and funded.

Doug, i see it the other way around :)
Including a N.A Rally in the WRC could well be a launching ramp for the local championships.
And no, the 1994 Soccer world cup cannot be compared.

Seriously, there's a huge car market, money for sponsors which could attract or re attract car companies (dreaming of Toyota coming back, N.A is "the" car market for them) + lots of misc. companies potentially interested in a new marketing challenge.
People there may not yet be aware of it but i'm pretty sure the WRC could suit their taste for spectacular motorsports.

Spreading the WRC to N.A to me is a valid key for the future of the sport, it means more US and/or Canucks on the stages but most of all the FIA must commit itself to it. How come they're only looking to the East (Jordan, Poland, ...) with poor TV networks and audiences compared to N.A and don't give a go to a North American rally ?

China as well should be examined. It's so obvious that i can't think of one day their FIA's endless & sterile brain stormings producing permanent U turns wouldn't result in giving a go to W.Rallying in N.A.

Phew... :bandit:

DonJippo

28th March 2007, 11:39

Spreading the WRC to N.A to me is a valid key for the future of the sport, it means more US and/or Canucks on the stages but most of all the FIA must commit itself to it. How come they're only looking to the East (Jordan, Poland, ...) with poor TV networks and audiences compared to N.A and don't give a go to a North American rally ?

Don't think FIA can force anyone to run a WRC event...initiative has to come from the ASN and the event organisers and then there is a procedure how to get WRC status via candidacy.

Tomi

28th March 2007, 12:03

Don't think FIA can force anyone to run a WRC event...initiative has to come from the ASN and the event organisers and then there is a procedure how to get WRC status via candidacy.

True and it would be good if countries looking to be nominated would has a good base of people interested in the sport or a driver to follow, so that there is continuity, there is no point to learn new orgaisations how to arrange events every year.
I think in us it would be clever to go on those drivers terms who want to try if they have what it takes, first thing would be to have normal fia type recce, the only way to learn making and driving by the notes is to drive by notes in competition speed, going abroad every time to practice is quite expensive for upcoming drivers.

FrankenSchwinn

28th March 2007, 15:40

Karukera

28th March 2007, 17:40

Don't think FIA can force anyone to run a WRC event...

I'm not implying enforcement in my post, only hints of what directions could help legibility and improve the sport reaching an actual worldwide level.
I believe it must open now to NA. Money is there, countless places for rallying and it's Ford's home. They have something to start with...

Doug Woods

28th March 2007, 18:28

For all of you who live outside of North America, it must seem that it would be a great idea to have another WRC event in the USA or Canada. Big markets, lots of cars, money everywhere, etc.

Unfortunately, it is not like this at all.

Rallying in the USA/Canada is an almost unknown form of motorsport. If you stopped a 1,000 people in downtown New York City, I would be surprised if anyone had ever heard of the WRC, unless of course you stopped Christian.

If a WRC event was held over here, it would get virtually zero television exposure. Rallying gets much more exposure as part of the Summer X Games (and soon the Winter X Games). Once again, if you live outside of North America, it is almost impossible for you to understand how popular the X Games are and the amount of television time they get.

In addition, we have almost no FIA eligible rally cars here. There are a few Group N cars, but most would fail scrutineering at a WRC event.

The truth of the matter is that rallying in the USA/Canada has absolutely no need for the WRC (and I write this as someone who has both won and organized a WRC event).

Our current course of strengthening our national championships, getting each event on national television and nuturing the X Games Rally event is what the sport needs at the present time.

L5->R5/CR

28th March 2007, 19:01

whether the nat'l championships be the launching pad or a wrc event be that launching pad for popularity of rallying does not matter in the end. it's that sentence written in post 96 that is the problem: the financial interest. in the usa nothing gets done if it doesnt pay (i've lived there long enough to know that)

the only national championship i know of a bit is the french one where, events basically break even and that's fine. the ffsa is like the government overthere and they over see everything and make sure that the events actually happen. national and local sponsors put a lot of effort into the whole organisation and everyone is happy (well, drivers are never really happy to pay an entry fee). people do it for the passion, not for the money. there has been a long long tradition of doing it for the passion dating back to when you didnt need money to organize a rally. so, their passion was transmited to their kids who are now running the show and sponsoring it. it's that deep passionate bunch that is missing in north america. nowdays the whole damn thing has to be economically viable so it's going to be difficult to actually get it to be popular. though, commercials like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmm3oVRSKqA will help and these stupid x-games have helped a lot as well (i am friends with a few sponsored skaters and they all know about rallying and most actually follow it a bit). but americans need more than just the mtv kids to follow it, they need true fans and a lot of them.

Financial legitimacy, enough to have a meaningful championship in terms of commercial viability isn't that far off. We have the stupid drifting craze, with plenty of well funded and supported drivers. Granted the scales of the experience are slightly different (cheaper to build and run a drift car than a rally car at this point) but the threshold to commercial value isn't that much higher than were rallying is. There are drivers who are getting significant backing, with the continuation of the X games, and a meaningufl qualifying process that will be shown on meaningful TV, we should be able to hope that in the next couple of years we will either have: 1) a real series title sponsor paying a sizable chunk of the bills (maybe 1 hour on ESPN for every rally?!) 2) multiple factory caliber teams (I'd be happy if we had SRT-USA and 5 or 6 more efforts like the SYMS/Rockstar team) 3) legitimate competition and support in the lower classes including expanded factory interest and support in our 2wd categories.

If we can have those things (we've had them as recently as 7 years ago) with the continued investment into the sport (clubmen susidization by the upper echelon) and continued investment into the commercial return (motorsport is as much about advertising in the end as anything else it could be) we might actually have the foundation for rallying to be popular enough to supprt the WRC.

As Doug alluded to. We don't have a lot of cars that could run in a WRC event. We do have some cars that would be exciting to see against certain levels of WRC cars (US Open class car versus PWRCars, US Group 5 cars versus JWRCars for instance) but we don't have a lot of cars that could fit into the mold (not saying we couldn't find a way for them to run it just probably wouldn't be worth it).

That coupled with the fact that to put together a candidate event, in the US, near a large enough population center, will require huge sums of money ($50 million USD isn't unrealistic). You give me enough money and I'll make it happen. I got a 30 mile road what with a little road surface work (tremendous base for rallying, just two sections with lots of rocks, could be fixed in a couple of days) could be one of the most incredible stages in the world. And it is within an hour of Denver (I have supporting roads for atleast two more legs around the area too). I just need enough money to get the people that live on the road to not be a problem...

ZequeArgentina

29th March 2007, 02:01

Didn't think Miggins was doing Argentina, pretty sure he said his next one was Greece. Correct me if i'm wrong!

cheers

I won´t correct you, you were right.............

cannyboy

29th March 2007, 15:58

($50 million USD isn't unrealistic).

50 million for a WRC event!

Best of luck - I could run the championship for that, probably twice over, and take part in it with a works team for fun....

FrankenSchwinn

29th March 2007, 16:46

it's funny how some assume i know nothing about the N.A. championships.... :rolleyes:

L5->R5/CR

29th March 2007, 16:57

50 million for a WRC event!

Best of luck - I could run the championship for that, probably twice over, and take part in it with a works team for fun....

You have to put on the event for 3 years realistiaclly speaking.

The only roads that wouldn't need weks of work by road graders have people one them. The only way to get Mr. and Mrs. NotInMyBackyard InfrontOfMyMountainParadise is to essentially pay them off (and or their elected representation). Oh yeah, you'll also have to have a lot more stage security because of the liability situation.

Then you will have to bring over some international crews, pay to have other WRC organizers as advisers, and for the first couple of years pay for a full time staff of around 10-20.

I sat down and figured it out last year. For the 3 years before WRC status you'd be looking at, between staff, equipment, events staff/volunteer accomodations, and having a political warchest (something in my home state you'd deffinitely need and I would imagine in others as well) you'd be looking at between 35 and 45 million for budget. Plus you'll need to commission the impact studies for both the environment and economy to prove that you won't do much damage to the environment (like the hundreds of permitted motor bike riders each weekend don't but thats another matter) and that there will be sufficent economic impact (calculate the economic impact per competitor and per spectator and then aggregate estimates). In the US, for an event of this nature, you'l also have to find a way about working around HAM radio operators, generally speaking you can only use HAM frequencies if you are a not-for-proffit. A WRC effort will almost certainly be for proffit, which means you might need to design and purchase equipment for an entirely new communications system in perhaps some very unforgiving terrain.

Basically you have to have an event by a major population center to have the amenties and support infrastructure for the teams and spectators. Your base town also needs to be close to a major airport and or transport hub. That means that unless you want a 150-200 mile transit to the stages and back for service, you'll have to deal with roads with residents on them, which runs costs up exponentially atleast here in the US.

Getting the Travis Pastrana circus/show into the WRC would help with all of that, but even then, there are significant obstacles that can only really be addressed and fixed with cubic dollars to a WRC event in the US...

L5->R5/CR

29th March 2007, 17:01

it's funny how some assume i know nothing about the N.A. championships.... :rolleyes:

I hope you didn't take my response to mean that.

You know more than most on this forum.

I just used your post as a launching point for my post.

STPR should be exciting this year as long as a couple of interlopers pop up in Oregon or Olympus. Right now the X games qualifying spots are fairly secure but if we get some PGT or other guys into the mix there should be a lot of guys pushing 100% like last year.

ProRally

29th March 2007, 17:55

.... 1) a real series title sponsor paying a sizable chunk of the bills (maybe 1 hour on ESPN for every rally?!) 2) multiple factory caliber teams (I'd be happy if we had SRT-USA and 5 or 6 more efforts like the SYMS/Rockstar team) 3) legitimate competition and support in the lower classes including expanded factory interest and support in our 2wd categories. ..... thanks for the kind words

...($50 million USD isn't unrealistic) I give you $100 now finding the remaining 49.999.900 could be a problem..... And could take a while... but ok a WRC in Colorado around Denver sounds ok to me.... I think Bjorn240 will also chip in something... :laugh:

FrankenSchwinn

29th March 2007, 18:42

I hope you didn't take my response to mean that.

it's cool, no worries. i just didnt want you to think that i was not a reader of the other "usual suspects" of forums and websites in the N.A..... i just don't post on that "other" forum cause, well, there are, well, you know, some people......

i think you and i have some sort of similar ideas on how the sport is and should be here. while i believe a true core real fanbase with a good strong governing body will help do the trick, you worry that it will not take off unless they can have some financial security for running an event (i do think that 50mil might be pushing the price of a national event, but if there is ever something that could be international a la WRC/3days style, it would definitely be somewhere around that range) then it would be the only way to get a good public display of rallying. am i correct?

L5->R5/CR

30th March 2007, 00:03

And could take a while... but ok a WRC in Colorado around Denver sounds ok to me.... I think Bjorn240 will also chip in something... :laugh:

If you're ever going to be in the Denver area let me know. And it only takes one trip to the service park to see what kind of professionalism the SYMS team is bringing to the championship.

I'll put you on Rampart Range Road and CO67. Many a CO rally fan has damaged or rolled their car playing on those roads...

I'm just picked Denver, because, well, I know the area and what it has to offer. We do have the world class accomodations, destination potential, infrastructure and the potential for financial backing.

it's cool, no worries. i just didnt want you to think that i was not a reader of the other "usual suspects" of forums and websites in the N.A..... i just don't post on that "other" forum cause, well, there are, well, you know, some people......

i think you and i have some sort of similar ideas on how the sport is and should be here. while i believe a true core real fanbase with a good strong governing body will help do the trick, you worry that it will not take off unless they can have some financial security for running an event (i do think that 50mil might be pushing the price of a national event, but if there is ever something that could be international a la WRC/3days style, it would definitely be somewhere around that range) then it would be the only way to get a good public display of rallying. am i correct?

50 mill is for the 3 years and all the infrastructure that would be needed.

As for a national championship event, well, there are a lot of events loosing money if they need more than $60,000.00.

I say for rallying to be a larger sport than it is it has to have a financial potential it is lacking right now because, well, rallying has been around for almost 40 years. Rallying won't go anywhere if it never gets that element, but it also won't go any further with out it.

Tomi

30th March 2007, 05:43

If you're ever going to be in the Denver area let me know. And it only takes one trip to the service park to see what kind of professionalism the SYMS team is bringing to the championship.

Yes ProRally, you better go and take a close look, how a professional team works. :)

bowler

30th March 2007, 08:31

I bet ProRally will take a look :-)

ProRally

30th March 2007, 14:52

I bet ProRally will take a look :-)

Hi Bowler,
Any chance seeing you anywhere outside KiwiLand... ?
Give my regards to all the team down there.

Rally Hokkaido

30th March 2007, 15:08

Yes ProRally, you better go and take a close look, how a professional team works. :)

:) :) :) Yes, might be areal eye-opener

L5->R5/CR

30th March 2007, 17:05

Yes ProRally, you better go and take a close look, how a professional team works. :)

blah blah blah, I knew what I was saying and to whom...

At the last national championship round we were debating who had the more professional crew, SRT-USA (Vermont Sports Car) or Rockstar (SYMS).

Offer to take you (ProRally) to Rampart still stands, hopefully I'll be able to find a decent enough car to make it interesting...

gloomyDAY

31st March 2007, 04:40

I'm a fan of Travis, but more for his motocross and less for his skills as a rally driver. My belief is that there are millions of fans here in America willing to shell out big sums of cash to see something more exciting and refreshing than NASCAR. I went through a natural progression of motor sports until I found the WRC, but this only happened because I accidentally came onto a Special Stage on the Speed Channel (back when they were broadcasting the WRC).

Earlier this month I went to Rally Mexico (my first rally) and met about 10 Americans willing to travel and deal with hardships just to see a few cars. I think this mindset is manifested in millions of others here in The States and in time rally will become a widely accepted motor sport. Exposure is the key to America's heart in order for rally to be welcomed.