French Law vs Our Law (maybe Brits too)

[Roamy]

So here is a big difference.
1. French law arrests someone and holds them for trial which in cases take months or years.
2. Our law allows for bail based on a reasonable track record and nature of the crime. plus trial by jury

3. Example in Mexico someone could throw a bag on Pot in your car and if you were caught you are up **** creek without a paddle. Plus no trial by jury.
10 to 25 yrs for simple possession. Scares the crap out of me.
A simple car accident will land you right in a cockroach infested cell where you will probably get the beat to a pulp daily. Yikes!!!

what say you all?????

[tinchote]

Bail is one more way to discriminate the poor. Really unfair, in my view. It shouldn't be the case that your time in jail depends on your financial situation :down:

[Alexamateo]

The Mexican car accident thing is a stereotype although they can detain you in the country in the event of a serious accident, but, that is why you are required to buy temporary Mexican Car Insurance when you take your car into Mexico.

Last time in Mexico, we had flown but we borrowed my brother-in-law's car to visit some other relatives. I tried to buy some insurance for me for a week, but was told that it was the car that was insured, not the driver. They said the insurance on his car would cover me, but he had no insurance on that car :dozey: , nor could I purchase temp insurance on a Mexican registered car. Fortunately, nothing happened, but I was mildly concerned at the time. My brother-in-law laughed and said not to worry, a couple of hundred bucks would straighten out any problem if I had an accident :p :

One story I do have to relate. A friend of ours (Mexican citizen)was in Juarez, when some guy tried to mug him. He ran and got away, but happened onto a couple of cops the next block over, and he told them what happened. They said get in and rode back over and said "Is that the guy?" Our friend said "Yeah". The cops proceeded to get out and absolutely pummel the guy and asked our friend if he wanted to get a couple of licks in too. Another time, I saw some cops beating a guy in his car in Chihuahua City and said "What was that?" My brother-in-law goes "Oh just a drunk driver" like it was no big deal. Just incredible, I love Mexico, but sometimes you are reminded it's still a third world country in many respects.

Still though, While I think your examples are a little far fetched and exaggerated, there are some seeds of truth.

[Gannex]

So here is a big difference.
1. French law arrests someone and holds them for trial which in cases take months or years.
2. Our law allows for bail based on a reasonable track record and nature of the crime. plus trial by jury

3. Example in Mexico someone could throw a bag on Pot in your car and if you were caught you are up **** creek without a paddle. Plus no trial by jury.
You forgot the English system, fousto. Here, no one is held, even if they have, for example, assaulted an elderly man in broad daylight in front of numerous witnesses. The perpetrators are not held because the criminal justice system has simply shut down in England for all but the most serious cases. Unless you murder someone, the police will probably not refer your file to the Crown Prosecution Service and if they do, the CPS will say it is not in the public interest that you be put on trial.

It doesn't make any sense at first, until you look at the targets that the prosecutors are working to. Their win/loss ratio is monitored, so of course they like to take on sure winners. It keeps the people at Whitehall happy.

Not only that, but there aren't enough prosecutors. They are understaffed even for the number of cases they are bringing to trial, and that's when they're effectively dismissing the vast majority that they consider.

Bradford Crown Court a few years ago had full dockets, with cases on stand-by to replace those that fell out. Now, the judges start at a leisurely hour, break for lunch, and often there is hardly anything for them to do in the afternoon. It's not because criminals have all stopped operating in our green and pleasant land; it's because the prosecutors have stopped operating, and I blame it on the government, Blair's government, because protecting the citizenry from random violence is a core government function if ever there was one.

[Roamy]

The Mexican car accident thing is a stereotype although they can detain you in the country in the event of a serious accident, but, that is why you are required to buy temporary Mexican Car Insurance when you take your car into Mexico.


Still though, While I think your examples are a little far fetched and exaggerated, there are some seeds of truth.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/01/31/bc-prison.html
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2006/06/01/mexico_drugs/
http://www.ocweekly.com/features/drinking/too-much-cabo-wabo/24657/
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007/03/01/3680764-cp.html
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/board/printthread.php?threadid=10865

[Roamy]

ps tin I agree but bail can be a hundred bucks or you can be release on your own recognizance

[Hawkmoon]

You forgot the English system, fousto. Here, no one is held, even if they have, for example, assaulted an elderly man in broad daylight in front of numerous witnesses. The perpetrators are not held because the criminal justice system has simply shut down in England for all but the most serious cases. Unless you murder someone, the police will probably not refer your file to the Crown Prosecution Service and if they do, the CPS will say it is not in the public interest that you be put on trial.

It doesn't make any sense at first, until you look at the targets that the prosecutors are working to. Their win/loss ratio is monitored, so of course they like to take on sure winners. It keeps the people at Whitehall happy.

Not only that, but there aren't enough prosecutors. They are understaffed even for the number of cases they are bringing to trial, and that's when they're effectively dismissing the vast majority that they consider.

Bradford Crown Court a few years ago had full dockets, with cases on stand-by to replace those that fell out. Now, the judges start at a leisurely hour, break for lunch, and often there is hardly anything for them to do in the afternoon. It's not because criminals have all stopped operating in our green and pleasant land; it's because the prosecutors have stopped operating, and I blame it on the government, Blair's government, because protecting the citizenry from random violence is a core government function if ever there was one.

Gannex, you know it just won't do to lock up criminals. They've had a bad childhood, don't you know. Abusive parents and all that. Disadvantaged they were, the lot of them.

What they need is just a little love and they will see the error of their ways. So the next time somebody mugs you, don't call the police. Just ask the mugger inside for a spot of tea and a nice chat and I'm sure you will be able to straighten them out. All you have to do is listen. They are, after all, just crying out for attention.

:dozey:

[Eki]

Maybe your law will also allow bail for those who have been kept prisoner in Guantanamo Bay without a trial for years?

[Eki]

According to the US State Department, inhumane prison conditions and police brutality and corruption are among the worst human rights violations in Finland:

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2006/78811.htm

"Overpopulation of prison facilities was a continuing problem; the country's total prison capacity was approximately 4,000, but there were nearly 4,200 inmates at year's end. Prison overcrowding complicated efforts to deal with widespread inmate drug addiction; 70 percent of all prisoners were estimated by the government to be drug addicts and in need of rehabilitation."

"An April 2005 study showed that an increasing number of young prison inmates suffered from mental health disorders such as schizophrenia. Nearly half of all inmates under age 21 had previously been hospitalized for one or more mental disorders. Mental health experts asserted that such prisoners belonged in the health care system rather than in prisons and recommended the hiring of additional mental health professionals for the country's prisons."

"The International Helsinki Federation reported that police at times picked up persons with mental disabilities when officers mistakenly believed such persons were intoxicated. Under police procedures, intoxicated persons found by the police are taken home; however, if their home address cannot be established, they are taken to police station facilities designed to hold intoxicated individuals while they sober up. In the city of Vantaa, a patient who had come to a hospital seeking treatment for depression was awakened by police who mistook him for an intoxicated person and transferred him to a police station. When police discovered the mistake, they returned the man to the hospital. In March 2005 the deputy chancellor of justice criticized this practice carried out by Vantaa police and health care authorities."

"For example, in June 2005 the deputy parliamentary ombudsman criticized two police officers who had offered an injured person $445 (340 euros) in exchange for agreeing not to file a complaint against the officers. "

[Roamy]

Is this Whack or What

A 57-year-old Swiss man has pleaded guilty in a court in Thailand to charges of insulting the king.
Oliver Jufer was arrested last December after defacing several portraits of the monarch, King Bhumibol Adulyadej, who has been on the throne for 60 years.

In court, Jufer pleaded guilty to five charges under Thailand's draconian lese majeste law.

A verdict is expected later this month. The maximum sentence he could face is 75 years in jail.

Oliver Jufer's lawyer says the minimum sentence he can get is seven-and-a-half years.

[tinchote]

ps tin I agree but bail can be a hundred bucks or you can be release on your own recognizance

That's true. But you still need to have a lot of money or you get a "Lionel Hutz" to defend you :s

[FrankenSchwinn]

So here is a big difference.
1. French law arrests someone and holds them for trial which in cases take months or years.

not years, the state would not be able to get away with it. what an american does not realize is the proximity of all kinds of other places france is and someone can "run away" easily. also, you are talking about serious felonies/crimes here, certainly not weed. actually the herb is tolerated to a degree in France, considering that the cops all smoke up anyway. but it depends on the cop of course. for not so serious things like possession they give you a ticket. for other things like inciting riots, assault and battery, etc, they put you in the slammer of course. don't ask me how i know.

[Roamy]

in mexico someone throws a bag of pot in your car - see you in 10 to 25 yrs.
auto accident your at fault could be up to a few months. I gave you examples
yikes -

I do feel comfortable in Europe as they are somewhat realistic.

[jso1985]

don't go to Mexico then if you're that scared...

what's the point of whole thread?

[race aficionado]

don't go to Mexico then if you're that scared...

what's the point of whole thread?

Well, I would imagine that some people have to go to Mexico for business reasons for example and would be naturally concerned with the abuse of laws news that they get.

If you travel around to different parts of the world, you are encountered with many different situations.

For example, when I was young and as a Colombian I traveled to Venezuela, having a Colombian passport got me into trouble just because I had a Colombian passport - and not because our well deserved "narco" fame, but because Venezuelan authorities were not very fond of Colombian citizens. That was a while ago so don't know how the situation is now.

I also have heard nightmare stories about the Mexican police but I'm not going to stress about it now that I have no future plans of going there.

But as for the law is concerned, I am aware that the patriot act has taken away a lot of liberties to us US citizens in our country, but I will say this: living in Manhattan, in U S of A, I feel priviledged to walk the streets and feel safe - and am very aware of how fortunate I am that I don't have to be afraid that someone is going to throw a bag of pot in my car . . . . I don't have one. ;)
I :heart: NY
:s mokin:

[Alexamateo]

If you travel around to different parts of the world, you are encountered with many different situations.

For example, when I was young and as a Colombian I traveled to Venezuela, having a Colombian passport got me into trouble just because I had a Colombian passport - and not because our well deserved "narco" fame, but because Venezuelan authorities were not very fond of Colombian citizens. That was a while ago so don't know how the situation is now.


:s mokin:

I've never had anything "bad" happen to me in Mexico, or felt like I was in a situation that something might happen, but I do find that some people won't like you just because you're an American (not unlike some here just because you're Hispanic) And sometimes it affects you in other ways, too.

Where my wife is from, taxis are negotiated, you hail a cab and ask how much to take you to such and such place. Well, my wife makes me hide in the bushes until she negotiates a price, because if they see a "gringo", price goes up substantially :p :

[Gannex]

Is this Whack or What

A 57-year-old Swiss man has pleaded guilty in a court in Thailand to charges of insulting the king.

Oliver Jufer's lawyer says the minimum sentence he can get is seven-and-a-half years.

Pretty whacko, as you say, fousto, but the US and other Western countries have the same kind of laws. In the US you can be prosecuted for flag-burning, and in the UK you can be prosecuted for spouting right-wing anti-immigrant views. Equally easily, you can be imprisoned here in England for "glorifying" acts of terrorism. So Thailand isn't the only place where you can be imprisoned for speaking unpopular ideas.

[race aficionado]

can you still get up on a milk box and have your say in Hyde Park?
. . . . that is, if you are not spouting against The Queen . . .

[Gannex]

You can still do it, race, but in Blair's Britain you have to be very careful what you say once you are up there on that box. It used to be that there was usually a Palestinian sounding off against Israel on any given Sunday: no more. Nowadays, he'd have to have his lawyer beside him, otherwise he'd only last a couple of Sundays. Same for the racists that used to urge each Sunday that every black be "sent back home". I always found it funny, that, because "home" was generally about eight miles away in Brixton or Tower Hamlets! But still, the racists used to be up there on their soap-boxes, urging bemused tourists to abandon their liberal principles. Like the Arab extremists, they are gone too. In fact, come to think of it race, about the only institution you CAN still spout against is the Queen. Al Fayed's been doing it for years.

[race aficionado]

times have changed, haven't they Gannex . . . .










I'll now go to sleep after that mayor understatement. :)

[Quattroporte]

Just be glad I'm not the one ruling your country. Some of my laws would be... Erm, radical.... :s

[fandango]

So here is a big difference.
1. French law arrests someone and holds them for trial which in cases take months or years.
2. Our law allows for bail based on a reasonable track record and nature of the crime. plus trial by jury

3. Example in Mexico someone could throw a bag on Pot in your car and if you were caught you are up **** creek without a paddle. Plus no trial by jury.
10 to 25 yrs for simple possession. Scares the crap out of me.
A simple car accident will land you right in a cockroach infested cell where you will probably get the beat to a pulp daily. Yikes!!!

what say you all?????

C'mon Fousto, give the paranoia a rest.

Only evil people do bad things and they're all in Guantanamo...