horsepower question?

[jonny hurlock]

I'm wondering how much horsepower does a current formula 1 engine have these days? guessing around 650-750bhp more or less? opinions

[AndyL]

According to James Allen (http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2009/11/analysis-of-f1-engine-performance-in-2009/), last year the range was something like 735-755hp, with the order being (most powerful first): Merc/BMW, Ferrari, Renault, Toyota.

[Sleeper]

When the V8's first came in the talk was of 750hp, OK they've been limited to 18000 rpm now from the 20000 they were doing, but we know Mercedes and Ferrari in particular have done a lot of work on the still open areas of development, to the point were they left Renault behind at one point. I'd say its still about 750 for all 4 manufacturers, with Renault and Cosworth maybe a little behind Ferrari and Mercedes.

[52Paddy]

Petty when you think of what they were pumping out 15-25 years ago :(

[i_max2k2]

Petty when you think of what they were pumping out 15-25 years ago :(

And how much was that? Btw how much were they doing in 2004?

[52Paddy]

And how much was that? Btw how much were they doing in 2004?

In 1985, some cars [e.g. Williams] were putting out 1500bhp with their qualifying engines. Even with race engines, cars were getting over 800bhp right up until 1993 or so (1993 Ferrari had 850bhp IIRC).

[SGWilko]

In 1985, some cars [e.g. Williams] were putting out 1500bhp with their qualifying engines. Even with race engines, cars were getting over 800bhp right up until 1993 or so (1993 Ferrari had 850bhp IIRC).

Yeah, but wasn't that car a truck? ;)

[52Paddy]

Yeah, but wasn't that car a truck? ;)

1500 was an exaggeration - 1000-1250 in qualifying and 900 in race config according to Patrick Head. As for the cars after the turbo era: all I can say is - stupid Top Trumps! :mark:

[Sonic]

1500 was an exaggeration - 1000-1250 in qualifying and 900 in race config according to Patrick Head. As for the cars after the turbo era: all I can say is - stupid Top Trumps! :mark:

Indeed, in qualifying spec you'd see around 1200bhp. The 1500bhp figure was a guess from a factory test with everything turned up to 11 :D but the equipment could only record up to 1400bhp.

Still mighty impressive.

[SteveA]

Wheezy little engines - Top Fuel drag racing engines make 8000hp!

[Sonic]

Wheezy little engines - Top Fuel drag racing engines make 8000hp!

For about 5 seconds ;)

[edv]

Wheezy little engines - Top Fuel drag racing engines make 8000hp!

Almost entirely due to the Nitro-Methane fuel. Those same engines using the same fuel as F1 cars (gasoline) yield less than 2,000hp.

[AndyL]

And how much was that? Btw how much were they doing in 2004?

I think in the last years of the V10s they were in the region of 900-950hp.

[SGWilko]

I think in the last years of the V10s they were in the region of 900-950hp.

Indeed, I recall Honda boasting that they were aiming for 1000hp. But that was only achieved with the crankshaft heading west at full tilt.......

[Sleeper]

Indeed, I recall Honda boasting that they were aiming for 1000hp. But that was only achieved with the crankshaft heading west at full tilt.......
I think it was their aim for the last race of 2005, Brazil, since that engine only had to be raced once. They never mentioned whether they succeded in getting 1000hp so I'm going to guess they failed, but they reportedly had 950 for most of the year.

[truefan72]

...and yet this talk is somewhat meaningless because the overall speed of the cars and the entire package keeps getting better over the years, to a point where the FIA is looking for was to slow them down a bit. horsepower is not the only important thing and recalling an era of more horsepower really does not mean an era of better or faster cars. The thing to marvel about is the efficiency and quality of these cars vs brute horsepower of a bygone era.

[52Paddy]

horsepower is not the only important thing and recalling an era of more horsepower really does not mean an era of better or faster cars.

This is true - but you can't deny a placebo effect of sorts.

[AndyL]

...and yet this talk is somewhat meaningless because the overall speed of the cars and the entire package keeps getting better over the years, to a point where the FIA is looking for was to slow them down a bit. horsepower is not the only important thing and recalling an era of more horsepower really does not mean an era of better or faster cars. The thing to marvel about is the efficiency and quality of these cars vs brute horsepower of a bygone era.

Very true that today's cars are much faster... but is the racing better?

The teams make their cars faster by generating more downforce and grip, and the FIA makes them slower by reducing engine power. I think the fans would be more entertained, and the drivers more challenged, if it were the other way round.

[Sleeper]

...and yet this talk is somewhat meaningless because the overall speed of the cars and the entire package keeps getting better over the years, to a point where the FIA is looking for was to slow them down a bit. horsepower is not the only important thing and recalling an era of more horsepower really does not mean an era of better or faster cars. The thing to marvel about is the efficiency and quality of these cars vs brute horsepower of a bygone era.

Actually, the fastest cars we've ever had were the last V10s. Their sheer power and acceleration was brutal, to the point that the higher downfofce cars now still arent able to make up the difference.

[truefan72]

Actually, the fastest cars we've ever had were the last V10s. Their sheer power and acceleration was brutal, to the point that the higher downfofce cars now still arent able to make up the difference.

I think the 2009-2010 cars are pretty much breaking most track records

[truefan72]

Very true that today's cars are much faster... but is the racing better?

The teams make their cars faster by generating more downforce and grip, and the FIA makes them slower by reducing engine power. I think the fans would be more entertained, and the drivers more challenged, if it were the other way round.

that is a different argument and I don't think that the horsepower issue was paramount to good racing back in the day. Actually it probably was the slower less aero cars along with drivers not penalized for attempting overtaking that made those races interesting. But I often look back at those old races and it is funny how we view th past with a somewhat nostalgic lense. Many of those races were not so close and many races, the leaders disappeared. Also reliability or th lack of it was a major factor in the excitement of those races.

[SteveA]

Almost entirely due to the Nitro-Methane fuel. Those same engines using the same fuel as F1 cars (gasoline) yield less than 2,000hp.

Yeah, but put Nitromethane in an F1 engine and it would be blown to pieces in seconds ;)

[ZEROX]

I think the 2009-2010 cars are pretty much breaking most track records

That's because the heavily modified diffuser .
Not the engine .

[ShiftingGears]

I am a strong believer in racing cars needing more power and less grip. I like cars to look fast, not just knowing that they're fast by looking at lap times.

[Duchess]

I am a strong believer in racing cars needing more power and less grip. I like cars to look fast, not just knowing that they're fast by looking at lap times.

Well I'm sure you can make a death machine all on your own, just get a cracked-out drag racer and paint little flames on it; it'll look crazy fast, but you'll look like an idiot in it! :laugh: