Korean GP

[Valve Bounce]

Since no one has started a thread for the actual race, I thought I'd start it. Basically, the track will be brand new, with many here concerned whether it will hold up under F1 traffic. We don't know what the attendance will be like although I hope some of the US servicemen will be able to attend. The asphalt will be green no doubt, although I am hoping it has been laid properly, as discussed in the other thread.

Racing will be keen, as Fernando and Vettel are tied 14 points each behind the Aussi, with Lewis Hamilton not totally out of it, although he'll probably need a lot of luck to make headway on the front three.

Which cars will this track suit? Whose engines and/or gearboxes will play up this stage of the season?

[Mia 01]

I´m curious of ferraris engine situation, will the engines hold for another race.

[Valve Bounce]

I´m curious of ferraris engine situation, will the engines hold for another race.

Good question! and what about McLaren's gearbox?

[ioan]

I´m curious of ferraris engine situation, will the engines hold for another race.

They do not need to hold for another race but for another 3 races. Hopefully they don't. :D

[Firstgear]

I'm hoping for a LH win, with JB & FA joining him on the podium. Stick SV in at 4th & MW down at 10th, and the top 4 would be separated by 4 points with only 2 races to go. Standings would be (if my calcs are right):

MW 221
FA 221
SV 218
LH 217
JB 207

[Tazio]

I'm hoping for a LH win, with JB & FA joining him on the podium. Stick SV in at 4th & MW down at 10th, and the top 4 would be separated by 4 points with only 2 races to go. Standings would be (if my calcs are right):

MW 221
FA 221
SV 218
LH 217
JB 207

That is not outside the realm of possibility.
If Webber has a bad result, or a DNF, and either the Boss or Button win in Korea they are right back in the thick of things.
Nothing is over!

[Hondo]

I have doubts that the dirt work bedding that the track is laid upon is up to specification in all areas. I think the tires will wear out quickly. I hope Webber wins the next 2 races.

[Sonic]

I´m curious of ferraris engine situation, will the engines hold for another race.

Very good point. We had a thread on here a few weeks back (can't find it now though) which suggested Mark Webber had the most new engines available. Clearly with Ferrari running old units it is possible/likely that we won't see their true pace at any of the final tracks until Q3.

I haven't been this excited about a season run-in in years!

[ioan]

I have doubts that the dirt work bedding that the track is laid upon is up to specification in all areas.

Interesting. I would like to have some more info if possible.

[Sonic]

I´m curious of ferraris engine situation, will the engines hold for another race.

Very good point. We had a thread on here a few weeks back (can't find it now though) which suggested Mark Webber had the most new engines available. Clearly with Ferrari running old units it is possible/likely that we won't see their true pace at any of the final tracks until Q3.

I haven't been this excited about a season run-in in years!

[Sleeper]

Looking at the layout I think its going to be nip and tuck between Ferrari and Red Bull, could be very interesting.

[Valve Bounce]

Interesting. I would like to have some more info if possible.

Me too! I've never heard of dirt work bedding before - this might be ground breaking stuff. :p :

[truefan72]

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/video/14102010/58/korea-circuit.html

i like the track and if this is how the area is going to look in a few years time, it will be a spectacular venue.
turn one is going to be tight bit that long straight right after will be exciting and most probably provide some good racing. one more week until friday practice :)

[Dave B]

Very good point. We had a thread on here a few weeks back (can't find it now though) which suggested Mark Webber had the most new engines available.

The full stats are here (click the "engines" tab, obviously):
http://www.vivaf1.com/engine.php

Of the championship contenders, Webber's on his 7th unit while all the others are on 8 so an unscheduled change would see them penalised.

Ferrari had an issue at the start of the season, but it appears to be under control now. Much as I'd like to see Alonso lose the championship, I want a fair fight on track and not to have the title decided by failures.

[AndyL]

The full stats are here (click the "engines" tab, obviously):
http://www.vivaf1.com/engine.php

Of the championship contenders, Webber's on his 7th unit while all the others are on 8 so an unscheduled change would see them penalised.

Actually looking at those numbers, Webber's advantage is only slight.

The McLaren and Mercedes cars all have the Spa and Suzuka engines with only 1 race on them, so for Korea, Brazil and Abu Dhabi they could be using engines on their 2nd, 2nd and 3rd races respectively.

Webber has at least 2 races on all the 7 engines he's used, but with 1 unused he'll do the last 3 races using engines on their 1st, 2nd and 3rd races.

Vettel has the Suzuka engine with one race on it, and some from earlier in the season with 2 races each. So his last 3 races will be using engines on their 2nd, 3rd and 3rd races.

Massa has the Spa engine with 1 race on it. The Monza engine has 1 race plus Singapore qualy on it, but since it was changed I'd assume it won't be re-used, even though it would be allowed at the final race. He has a couple of other engines with 2 races on them. So having taken the penalty he's in the same position as Vettel now.

Alonso has the Spa engine with one race, plus only one other with 2 races, so he's looking at using engines on their 2nd/3rd/3rd races too. But he's more vulnerable if he loses an engine, because he could have to choose to either take a penalty or make an engine last 4 races.

The guys with the real advantage are Reubens plus the two Renaults. They all have their Suzuka engines with only 1 race, plus a fresh one, so they'll be doing 1st/2nd/2nd for the remaining races. Shame for Reubens that his is only a Cosworth :)

(For several drivers engine 1 has only done one race, but I'm guessing that will have been used for practices since.)

Edit: I just realised that Webber, who's only used 7 engines, is actually more vulnerable in the event of an engine failure than the 4 Mercedes-engined cars. If, hypothetically, they all use their least-used engines in Korea and all blow them up during the race, then the Macs/Mercs would still be have 2nd race/3rd race engines for Brazil and Abu Dhabi. Whereas Webber would fall back to 3rd/3rd because all his other engines have 2 races on already.

[Bruce D]

Having driven the track in the F1 2010 game I personally think Red Bull are going to walk it. Sure there is the long straight down to the hairpin Turn 3 but then the next section is stop start through turns 4 to 6 before opening up. From then on it's all Red Bull country with fast sweepers and corners that tighten. Aero and low speed grip will be critical so I think we'll see RBR followed by Ferrari and McLaren then weekend. I expect the McLarens to be quickest through sector 1 but lose it all in sector 3.

Personally I don't like the layout that much. In the game there are 7 corners in 1 lap where you're scrabbling for grip in acceleration out of 2nd gear corners (T1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 15), thats not a good ratio. The whole lap just feels like you're just getting going and have to slow down for a damn 2nd gear corner again.

[Mia 01]

Actually looking at those numbers, Webber's advantage is only slight.

The McLaren and Mercedes cars all have the Spa and Suzuka engines with only 1 race on them, so for Korea, Brazil and Abu Dhabi they could be using engines on their 2nd, 2nd and 3rd races respectively.

Webber has at least 2 races on all the 7 engines he's used, but with 1 unused he'll do the last 3 races using engines on their 1st, 2nd and 3rd races.

Vettel has the Suzuka engine with one race on it, and some from earlier in the season with 2 races each. So his last 3 races will be using engines on their 2nd, 3rd and 3rd races.

Massa has the Spa engine with 1 race on it. The Monza engine has 1 race plus Singapore qualy on it, but since it was changed I'd assume it won't be re-used, even though it would be allowed at the final race. He has a couple of other engines with 2 races on them. So having taken the penalty he's in the same position as Vettel now.

Alonso has the Spa engine with one race, plus only one other with 2 races, so he's looking at using engines on their 2nd/3rd/3rd races too. But he's more vulnerable if he loses an engine, because he could have to choose to either take a penalty or make an engine last 4 races.

The guys with the real advantage are Reubens plus the two Renaults. They all have their Suzuka engines with only 1 race, plus a fresh one, so they'll be doing 1st/2nd/2nd for the remaining races. Shame for Reubens that his is only a Cosworth :)

(For several drivers engine 1 has only done one race, but I'm guessing that will have been used for practices since.)

Edit: I just realised that Webber, who's only used 7 engines, is actually more vulnerable in the event of an engine failure than the 4 Mercedes-engined cars. If, hypothetically, they all use their least-used engines in Korea and all blow them up during the race, then the Macs/Mercs would still be have 2nd race/3rd race engines for Brazil and Abu Dhabi. Whereas Webber would fall back to 3rd/3rd because all his other engines have 2 races on already.

For some resons they cán´t use engines older than two month or was it three.

[Valve Bounce]

Actually looking at those numbers, Webber's advantage is only slight.

The McLaren and Mercedes cars all have the Spa and Suzuka engines with only 1 race on them, so for Korea, Brazil and Abu Dhabi they could be using engines on their 2nd, 2nd and 3rd races respectively.

Webber has at least 2 races on all the 7 engines he's used, but with 1 unused he'll do the last 3 races using engines on their 1st, 2nd and 3rd races.

Vettel has the Suzuka engine with one race on it, and some from earlier in the season with 2 races each. So his last 3 races will be using engines on their 2nd, 3rd and 3rd races.

Massa has the Spa engine with 1 race on it. The Monza engine has 1 race plus Singapore qualy on it, but since it was changed I'd assume it won't be re-used, even though it would be allowed at the final race. He has a couple of other engines with 2 races on them. So having taken the penalty he's in the same position as Vettel now.

Alonso has the Spa engine with one race, plus only one other with 2 races, so he's looking at using engines on their 2nd/3rd/3rd races too. But he's more vulnerable if he loses an engine, because he could have to choose to either take a penalty or make an engine last 4 races.

The guys with the real advantage are Reubens plus the two Renaults. They all have their Suzuka engines with only 1 race, plus a fresh one, so they'll be doing 1st/2nd/2nd for the remaining races. Shame for Reubens that his is only a Cosworth :)

(For several drivers engine 1 has only done one race, but I'm guessing that will have been used for practices since.)

Edit: I just realised that Webber, who's only used 7 engines, is actually more vulnerable in the event of an engine failure than the 4 Mercedes-engined cars. If, hypothetically, they all use their least-used engines in Korea and all blow them up during the race, then the Macs/Mercs would still be have 2nd race/3rd race engines for Brazil and Abu Dhabi. Whereas Webber would fall back to 3rd/3rd because all his other engines have 2 races on already.

Shouldn't you be doing some homework?

[Valve Bounce]

For some resons they cán´t use engines older than two month or was it three.

Termites!! They eat everything. :(

[djparky]

oh joy- after the delights of Suzuka comes another Herman Tilke bore-a-drome. Am sure it will look very nice, and with one man and his dog in the stands they'll look quite good as well

I haven't played the F1 game yet- does this have the regulation bump on the start/finish straight?

[truefan72]

oh joy- after the delights of Suzuka comes another Herman Tilke bore-a-drome. Am sure it will look very nice, and with one man and his dog in the stands they'll look quite good as well

I haven't played the F1 game yet- does this have the regulation bump on the start/finish straight?

you sound like just another hater with the typical preconceived notions of where and what an F1 race should be. I am no tilke fan usually, but I can be man enough to reserve my judgment until after the race.

[Sonic]

you sound like just another hater with the typical preconceived notions of where and what an F1 race should be. I am no tilke fan usually, but I can be man enough to reserve my judgment until after the race.

:up:

[airshifter]

It looks to be a track with a lot of potential to even things out between the strong and weak handling cars. Someone with an effective F Duct system should do well there, as the long straights will favor the low downforce cars. I suspect that the cars not using the F Duct will be in very low downforce trim, near to Monza setups.

Then again, until we see cars on track it's hard to say what passing opportunities exist in the sections of the course with a lot of turns.

As for crowds, it's always nice to see packed stands, but overall it doesn't affect the quality of the track or race IMO.

[truefan72]

It looks to be a track with a lot of potential to even things out between the strong and weak handling cars. Someone with an effective F Duct system should do well there, as the long straights will favor the low downforce cars. I suspect that the cars not using the F Duct will be in very low downforce trim, near to Monza setups.

Then again, until we see cars on track it's hard to say what passing opportunities exist in the sections of the course with a lot of turns.

As for crowds, it's always nice to see packed stands, but overall it doesn't affect the quality of the track or race IMO.

yep. Good points.

I guess the excitement is that we don't know anything until Friday practice. Even the way the world feed chooses to show the track and from what angles adds to my curiosity.

[Valve Bounce]

I wonder what they serve for lunch? Bulgogi with Kimchi? I wonder if they still mix barley with rice there. And I just wonder how many pit crew dare to eat live Octopus! :eek:

[Duchess]

I wonder what they serve for lunch? Bulgogi with Kimchi? I wonder if they still mix barley with rice there. And I just wonder how many pit crew dare to eat live Octopus! :eek:

I'm pretty sure the team cooks are more than well aware of the Brits' unimaginative appetites and are planning to supplement for that when preparing the team lunches. :p

[Sonic]

I'm pretty sure the team cooks are more than well aware of the Brits' unimaginative appetites and are planning to supplement for that when preparing the team lunches. :p

Cooked cow is so much better than raw fish. Actual fact.

[Dave B]

Here's a like to the frequently updated blog of Ian Fergusson with a detailed weather forecast for the weekend:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/weather/ianfergusson/2010/10/formula-one-weather-forecast-k.shtml

The main predictions (subject to change as he freely admits in the blog!):

Friday: CONFIDENCE HIGH: Sunny spells and dry. Chance of PPN 5%. Max 21C. Becoming breezy. Wind ENE.

Saturday: CONFIDENCE LOW:Bright start but turningcloudier during the day. Noticeably breezy again. On balance likely to remain dry, but low-moderate potential for outbreaks of rain to arrive later in day, turning heavy at times overnight. Chance of PPN 40%. Max 20C. Wind brisk ENE.

Sunday: CONFIDENCE LOW: Mostly cloudy. Potential for further outbreaks of rain through the morning albeit some models persist with an entirely dry outlook, only bringing rain later into the evening. Middle ground approach: overnight rain from Saturday clearing during AM? Chance of PPN 50%. Max 21C. Breezy. Wind brisk ENE.

[Valve Bounce]

Cooked cow is so much better than raw fish. Actual fact.

Actually, these guys eat the live Octopus for STAMINA. As for cooked cow being better than raw fish, it's all a matter of taste.

[Tazio]

Actually, these guys eat the live Octopus for STAMINA. As for cooked cow being better than raw fish, it's all a matter of taste.
Speaking of Paul the Octopus, it's time to start laying some Sig bets down.

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/59/m_2a2774989c27464b8fbbbfb1c65b21ad.jpg


Mr. Alcatraz will consider all propositions! :s mokin:

[Valve Bounce]

Speaking of Paul the Octopus, it's time to start laying some Sig bets down.

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/59/m_2a2774989c27464b8fbbbfb1c65b21ad.jpg


Mr. Alcatraz will consider all propositions! :s mokin:

OK! I'll back Bunsen

[Tazio]

OK! I'll back Bunsen

Against Fred? Or for the whole ball of wax? :eek:

[Tazio]

From the fp1 feed Fred actually looks a little nervous. maybe he has a good reasonn to be. :dozey:

[AndyL]

25 minutes into FP1: Sakon Yamamoto goes top of the timing screens by 10 seconds.

Doubt I'll ever have occasion to say that again!

[Tazio]

Fred is acting like he isn't even going to get in the car for fp1.They probably bolted on a lump good for about 15 laps. :cool:

[truefan72]

so much for the naysayers. track looks good. actually it seems to be a terrific track. Was excited when those williams went 1-2. Was even more excited when Hamilton put in a blinder of lap after sitting out most of the session.
I like the circuit, fast straights and a couple of really cool fast corners, also that final sector and especially that mini parabolica to the start-finish straight is pretty darn cool. Got to give credit where it is due. Tilke built a good circuit

[Valve Bounce]

Against Fred? Or for the whole ball of wax? :eek:

This is the way it works: I pick a runner and you pick a runner. The loser has to wear the sig the winner chooses. Got it?

[Valve Bounce]

so much for the naysayers. track looks good. actually it seems to be a terrific track. Was excited when those williams went 1-2. Was even more excited when Hamilton put in a blinder of lap after sitting out most of the session.
I like the circuit, fast straights and a couple of really cool fast corners, also that final sector and especially that mini parabolica to the start-finish straight is pretty darn cool. Got to give credit where it is due. Tilke built a good circuit

Actually, the Koreans built the track - Tilke only designed it. But I can safely tell you that Mr Kim was the guy operating the paver spreader and Mr Park the roller, and Mr Lee was the supervisor.

[Tazio]

This is the way it works: I pick a runner and you pick a runner. The loser has to wear the sig the winner chooses. Got it?Not exactly old bean! Does the winner have to win the race, or just finnish ahead of the other guys pick? :rolleyes:

[Valve Bounce]

Not exactly old bean! Does the winner have to win the race, or just finnish ahead of the other guys pick? :rolleyes:

Ahead - and I usually consult my co-sig bettors before we agree on a mutually satisfying sig. However, I am very reluctant, at the moment to relinquish my current sig. So we may have an impasse.

[Tazio]

No bet!
Let's just enjoy the race valve! :)

[Tazio]

interesting FP2. It looks like Red Bull, Ferrari, and McLaren have a shot at the pole. As usual it may comes down to who can drive a mistake free run on the limit in q3. RK looked fast on low fuel.
Massa was a mess for a fair part of the session, although he was fast on low fuel for a couple of laps, however he had a lot of offs. :(

[Valve Bounce]

I am mystified how Webber improved more than 4 seconds between P1 and P2. I just wonder what the circumstances are which resulted in this improvement. Of course, it is also interesting that fernando and Lewis Hamilton are not that far behind - the prospect of a great race is there.

[Tazio]

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/3284/bildschirmfoto20101022u.png

[fandango]

The difference in speed at the last corner between drivers on a flying lap and those about to pit seems to be concerning the drivers. It does seem to be a serious issue, considering the wall makes it a blind corner.

It seems strange to me, though, that they wouldn't have seen this on their wonderful simulators that we hear so much about. Is it a problem on the computer game, anyone?

[wedge]

oh joy- after the delights of Suzuka comes another Herman Tilke bore-a-drome. Am sure it will look very nice, and with one man and his dog in the stands they'll look quite good as well

I haven't played the F1 game yet- does this have the regulation bump on the start/finish straight?

Can't help but agree.

Initial impressions aren't good to say the least.

Not the usual Tilke-drome cookie cutter. It's Hungary with longer straights.

[truefan72]

Can't help but agree.

Initial impressions aren't good to say the least.

Not the usual Tilke-drome cookie cutter. It's Hungary with longer straights.

well the drivers love it.
...but what do they know right?

seems to me you want to not like the track despite it being,long, fast and many varied elements, plenty of overtaking opportunities and a course that seems to level the playing field. This track is nothing like hungaroring so stop with the hateration and for goodness sake, enjoy the weekend

[wedge]

well the drivers love it.
...but what do they know right?

seems to me you want to not like the track despite it being,long, fast and many varied elements, plenty of overtaking opportunities and a course that seems to level the playing field. This track is nothing like hungaroring so stop with the hateration and for goodness sake, enjoy the weekend

Actually I do like Tilke-dromes.

I enjoyed the recent Moto GP race at Aragon, I love Germany & Bahrain (inc. endurance/2010 configuration) and they're probably the two most hated Tilke tracks from fans, even if the drivers enjoy them.

I find Korea dull. It does not ebb and flow mixing straights, low speed technical corners and high speed corners unlike Sepang and Bahrain.

Basically its a series of corners with little or no respite and then you have long straight, hairpin, long straight and back to the string complex

[ioan]

well the drivers love it.
...but what do they know right?

seems to me you want to not like the track despite it being,long, fast and many varied elements, plenty of overtaking opportunities and a course that seems to level the playing field. This track is nothing like hungaroring so stop with the hateration and for goodness sake, enjoy the weekend

Many people wanted to see this track fail, most of them from the UK, and most probably because Donnington failed miserably with their upgrades. So they will complain about whatever they can find, like: the tarmac is black, the sky is way too blue, the track is boring (even if the first ever race is yet to take place) and so on.

[ioan]

Basically its a series of corners with little or no respite and then you have long straight, hairpin, long straight and back to the string complex

Great, now let's wait to see a race there and you can continue whining after that.

[Roamy]

Well I was very impressed with the 7 Time WDC who on equal footing with the other drivers blazed his way to 12 position a mere 1.6 seconds off the pace. What a display by this "Great Champion" or should I say "Great Cheater"

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[gloomyDAY]

Well I was very impressed with the 7 Time WDC who on equal footing with the other drivers blazed his way to 12 position a mere 1.6 seconds off the pace. What a display by this "Great Champion" or should I say "Great Cheater"

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Give it a rest. :rolleyes:

Yes, Mike is struggling, but he's not some washed up loser.

[Roamy]

Give it a rest. :rolleyes:

Yes, Mike is struggling, but he's not some washed up loser.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[fandango]

Well, judging from the reactions of the teams, the fact that there is a track in Korea is impressive in its own right. Okay, so it doesn't follow the contours of wonderful geography like Spa does, but I reckon many circuits didn't seem that hot by today's standards when they started in the 1950s, like Silverstone, for example.

But the fans make these places in Europe wonderful. The atmosphere at Monza, Silverstone or Spa is special. So Korea deserves a chance. It might take a decade, but so what? This is Formula 1, the idea is to be a worldwide sport, so a bit of long term perspective is necessary.

[Mr. Mister]

I like the track, really. It will take a while to get it sorted, as a few problems still remain (including ones off-the-track, such as the lack of accommodations that has resulted in some team members staying in brothels), but the track has a lot of potential. They very nearly had another Champ Car Korean race disaster, so I'm glad they're getting it in.

[steveaki13]

Give it a rest. :rolleyes:

Yes, Mike is struggling, but he's not some washed up loser.

:up:

[truefan72]

Well, judging from the reactions of the teams, the fact that there is a track in Korea is impressive in its own right. Okay, so it doesn't follow the contours of wonderful geography like Spa does, but I reckon many circuits didn't seem that hot by today's standards when they started in the 1950s, like Silverstone, for example.

But the fans make these places in Europe wonderful. The atmosphere at Monza, Silverstone or Spa is special. So Korea deserves a chance. It might take a decade, but so what? This is Formula 1, the idea is to be a worldwide sport, so a bit of long term perspective is necessary.

fandango we don't agree much, but this is an excellent post

[truefan72]

Give it a rest. :rolleyes:

Yes, Mike is struggling, but he's not some washed up loser.

:up:

It is getting tiresome.
he can laugh all he wants, but inside he is crying.

[Garry Walker]

They do not need to hold for another race but for another 3 races. Hopefully they don't. :D

The more ferrari blowups I see, the better.

[nigelred5]

Turn 16 is gonna bite someone hard. Its pretty obvious the course is actually two courses. It doesn't seem like it has a very good rhythm.

[Valve Bounce]

Turn 16 is gonna bite someone hard. Its pretty obvious the course is actually two courses. It doesn't seem like it has a very good rhythm.

QUE? :confused:

[Easy Drifter]

I haven't heard any complaints from the mechanics about the accomodations. :D Condoms and sex toys in vending machines in each room. Maybe even better than a mini bar. :cool:
I saw only the second practice and did notice a bumpiness occurring in the hard braking zones in a couple of corners. This might (note might) be a case of the loading 'rolling' up the new paving. So far this is not a big problem. Just something to keep an eye on.
The track has stood up well and I really hope it continues to do so.
Speed did suggest that the two corners where the curbs are lower than the track surface might be due to settling. I hope not and if it should rain that could be a major problem if they do not drain well.
Mind you building all curbs that way probably would result in the drivers staying on track more!!! :D
Looking forward to both qualifying and the race.

[Valve Bounce]

My first look at the track will be a delayed telecast of quals today. Will record it and have a lok later, and hope to see what the surface is like, and how the cars cope with the kerbs.

Rain has been forcast for tomorrow.

[truefan72]

man Alonso is a D&*k
Everyone has to deal with traffic and Rosberg was coming up fast behind the other car so he had to slow down, but only Alonso sees it fit to gesticulate and complain over the radio, FFS this is practice Alonso, practice. Many other drivers had to abort their laps because of traffic, Some even had to go off track to avoid problems, but Alonso? the special one thinks Rosberg has to move out of the way for him on turn 16 and compromise the build up to his fast lap. what a #$%^

[Tazio]

:eek: Wow top 4 separated by less than .090
Quali should be a real cracker :s ailor:

[truefan72]

Mind you building all curbs that way probably would result in the drivers staying on track more!!! :D
I agree. In looking at the replays of the cars through turn 16 some get it right some don;t and funny enough the two drivers that nailed that corner right without sloughing through the chicane/curb sit 1-2 after FP3.

i find it hard to hear complaints that the turn is compromised when the drivers simply take a direct line through it. There is a reason for the curb and demarcation. It's supposed to indicate you not going over it ( at least not the full tire)

[truefan72]

:eek: Wow top 4 separated by less than .090
Quali should be a real cracker :s ailor:

sure will, nothing to choose between them.

My money is on Kubica, he seems possessed,
plus it would be good for f1 and good for the race drama
...of course if Hamilton takes pole and Kubica is 2nd and Button third, then that would be even more perfect.

[Tazio]

sure will, nothing to choose between them.

My money is on Kubica, he seems possessed,
plus it would be good for f1 and good for the race drama
...Well I will agree with this part ;) :D



http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/3425/bildschirmfoto20101023u.png (http://img246.imageshack.us/i/bildschirmfoto20101023u.png/)

[truefan72]

as usual live timing is not working :down:

[truefan72]

button and kubica are playing with fire

[truefan72]

is senna getting worse or is yamamoto getting better :\

[Roamy]

The more ferrari blowups I see, the better.

Garry That is Not Nice :)

[Hawkmoon]

Massa is a big disappointment. 8 tenths off his team mate is rather pathetic. This from a guy who fancies himself as a number 1?

[Valve Bounce]

Massa is a big disappointment. 8 tenths off his team mate is rather pathetic. This from a guy who fancies himself as a number 1?

Maybe he was conserving his tyres. :p :

[Mia 01]

Well done Seb and Mark!
Santander did a good job to

hamlon not so and jens well.

We will see.

[Tazio]

What's the latest weather forecast :(
Heroic attempts by The Boss, and especially Fred.
BTW these guys are their teams #1's (StD) :s ailor:
Grid position 3 may be better starting position than grid position 2
Congrats to Vettel and Webber. Those Red Bulls will be hard to beat.

[Tazio]

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/3425/bildschirmfoto20101023u.png (http://img200.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bildschirmfoto20101023u.png)




:s ailor:

[fandango]

It's going to be quite a race. Red Bull looking good, but the braking into turn one might be complicated. Webber must be a bit worried starting from the dirty side.

Some seem to think Ferrari will manage their tyres better over the race distance. I still wouldn't write Hamilton off by any means, but Button is looking a little lost.

[Tazio]

man Alonso is a D&*k
Everyone has to deal with traffic and Rosberg was coming up fast behind the other car so he had to slow down, but only Alonso sees it fit to gesticulate and complain over the radio, FFS this is practice Alonso, practice. Many other drivers had to abort their laps because of traffic, Some even had to go off track to avoid problems, but Alonso? the special one thinks Rosberg has to move out of the way for him on turn 16 and compromise the build up to his fast lap. what a #$%^Ferrari are complaining to FIA about the incident between Rosberg and Alonso in FP3, they are hoping to get him sanctioned to get Massa up to 5:th and on the clean side.
Alonso, Massa, Rosberg and Schuie are talking to the stewards at the moment apparently.

BTW Britney already apologized to Fred for driving like such a tool :)

[Valve Bounce]

Grid position 3 may be better starting position than grid position 2
.

So true! so what will Vettel do? Try to block Fernando? or just go straight ahead. I am tipping that Mark, starting from the dirty side of the grid will do his usual magnificent start and come in somewhere behind Hamilton into turn 1. :(

Can hardly wait for tomorrow.

[Tazio]

So true! so what will Vettel do? Try to block Fernando? or just go straight ahead. I am tipping that Mark, starting from the dirty side of the grid will do his usual magnificent start and come in somewhere behind Hamilton into turn 1. :(

Can hardly wait for tomorrow.

Should be interesting Mark is kind of notorious for his inconsistant starts.
He seemed pretty relaxed about it during the interview. I'm trying to decide if overnight rain or any pre-race rain for that matter will affect one side more than the other. :confused:
BTW Vettel will go for the chop on Mark I'm guessing :eek:

[Tazio]

Ferrari are complaining to FIA about the incident between Rosberg and Alonso in FP3, they are hoping to get him sanctioned to get Massa up to 5:th and on the clean side.
Alonso, Massa, Rosberg and Schuie are talking to the stewards at the moment apparently.

BTW Britney already apologized to Fred for driving like such a tool :)

ABTW I've never approved of Fred's propensity to do the hand jive at other pilots. I don't go mental over it though ( dumb as it is)

[ioan]

Massa is a big disappointment. 8 tenths off his team mate is rather pathetic. This from a guy who fancies himself as a number 1?

Would you be doing better after the team shafted you in front of everyone?
What does he have to fight for, Santander's title?! Not interesting at all.

[ioan]

Ferrari are complaining to FIA about the incident between Rosberg and Alonso in FP3, they are hoping to get him sanctioned to get Massa up to 5:th and on the clean side.

Typical Ferrari crap, if true. They should man up and fight it out on the track.

[Valve Bounce]

From Autosport:" Nico Rosberg also escaped a penalty, having been under investigation for having impeded Fernando Alonso during final practice."

Hang on!!!! I didn't know that it was an offense at all if someone impedes another driver during practice? What's this all about?

[ioan]

From Autosport:" Nico Rosberg also escaped a penalty, having been under investigation for having impeded Fernando Alonso during final practice."

Hang on!!!! I didn't know that it was an offense at all if someone impedes another driver during practice? What's this all about?

There is no offense for holding up someone during free practice, and this is why I do not understand why the stewards even considered to investigate this typical Ferrari crap.

[jens]

I have to say that the track reminded me a street circuit with barriers being close. Well, actually Valencia sprung into my mind immediately, when I was watching the qualifying session.

Interesting battle for pole. Alonso looked set for pole, but RBR drivers managed to finally get everything out of the car in the last attempt. But I suspect Alonso is likely to be at least second after the start and first corners tomorrow. Slipstreaming on the second straight is going to be interesting. In any case, frontrunners are close and it remains to be seen, how can RBR drivers cope with the pressure and Alonso's attacks in the race to capitalize on their grid positions. I think Yeongam may suit Ferrari more than Interlagos in comparison to RBR, so must be really the opportunity for Spaniard to try to take the maximum from here. But the session confirmed that McLaren needs a miracle to win the WDC and also WCC is slipping away.

What was the issue of Kovalainen? Lotus drivers have been close in qualis all season, so odd to suddenly see such gap. And Senna getting trashed by Yamamoto? Well, if everyone agrees that Sakon doesn't deserve to be in F1, then you know, what to think about this man... Alguersuari again outqualifying Buemi, so good to see him finally finding some consistency. Massa has been quite out of his depth in the last few GP weekends - it looks like his confidence is one of his all-time lows, while since Germany he seemed on a rise.

[steveaki13]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9120591.stm

Schumi in trouble again.

[pino]

Would you be doing better after the team shafted you in front of everyone?
What does he have to fight for, Santander's title?! Not interesting at all.

He has to fight in order to keep his seat a Ferrari next year, or he will end at Toro Rosso, Force India or even at HRT...

[ioan]

He has to fight in order to keep his seat a Ferrari next year, or he will end at Toro Rosso, Force India or even at HRT...

Yeah sure, what else? LdM told you this personally?!
Not that it would surprise me to see Ferrari shaft the guy who almost died racing one of their cars, not at all given that they are a team who invites slimebag Flab into their motorhomes and pit boxes! :rolleyes:

Ferrari F1 team can flourish only if Italians are not taking the decisions, like during Todt-Brawn-Byrne-Schumacher who took decisions using their heads not their feet and ego.

[ShiftingGears]

Would you be doing better after the team shafted you in front of everyone?
What does he have to fight for, Santander's title?! Not interesting at all.

Massa's performance is underwhelming, and will not enhance Felipe's standing within Ferrari for next year, nor will it do his future job prospects with other teams any good. That is what should be motivating him, if achieving the best possible positions in races is not enough.

[fandango]

From Autosport:" Nico Rosberg also escaped a penalty, having been under investigation for having impeded Fernando Alonso during final practice."

Hang on!!!! I didn't know that it was an offense at all if someone impedes another driver during practice? What's this all about?

The red car rule......

[jens]

Would you be doing better after the team shafted you in front of everyone?
What does he have to fight for, Santander's title?! Not interesting at all.

I agree with the sentiments of theugsquirrel here. Racing for Santander and Alonso, as such, probably isn't interesting indeed. But what Massa can do in such situation, is to simply enjoy being part of F1, get the enjoyment of driving the car as fast as he can and battling with others cars on track - like living in his own world. A lot is dependent on tweaking the thinking. After all he can feel relaxed about not being involved in the title fight, so can just purely enjoy racing without such pressure.

Perhaps over time Massa can learn enjoying the status of an underdog driver, at the moment he clearly isn't used to it. Just let's look at Button for contrast, he seems to enjoy his underdog status. Before the season everyone kept telling, how McLaren is Hamilton's team, he is the number one there and Button has no chance. Well, he never cared and despite being outpaced he is getting the results. If Massa can reach such relaxed feeling for 2011, he may actually really surprise. And it's the only way he can do it. But by thinking that "oh well I'm a number 2 driver and how frustrating is that" he will never do that. It would be quite pointless.

Who knows, perhaps 2010 will be valuable for Massa's development as a driver. It has been a good character building season as for the first time in his F1 career he may feel that Ferrari isn't supporting him (they did even in his Sauber days). But he has the whole winter to think, how to approach next season with such knowledge and adapt to the situation.

[Ent]

Would you be doing better after the team shafted you in front of everyone?
What does he have to fight for, Santander's title?! Not interesting at all.

I don't think Ferrari, or any other team, really need a driver who simply gives up, if what you imply is true. If you're a quitter, then there's no place for you in F1.

[Dave B]

No penalty for Rosberg; a reprimand for Schumacher.

[pino]

Yeah sure, what else? LdM told you this personally?!
Not that it would surprise me to see Ferrari shaft the guy who almost died racing one of their cars, not at all given that they are a team who invites slimebag Flab into their motorhomes and pit boxes! :rolleyes:

Ferrari F1 team can flourish only if Italians are not taking the decisions, like during Todt-Brawn-Byrne-Schumacher who took decisions using their heads not their feet and ego.

No LdM didn't tell me that, I just think and hope Massa isn't that stupid to play against Ferrari especially with so few seat available at top Team for next season. And why you care how Ferrari deals with drivers anyway...thanks God you're not, and you've never been a real tifoso !

[Tazio]

There is no offense for holding up someone during free practice, and this is why I do not understand why the stewards even considered to investigate this typical Ferrari crap.



Document No.27 (http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/kor-document-27.pdf)

No / Driver 14 - Adrian Sutil
Team Force India F1 Team
Time 14:01:00
Session Qualifying
Fact Pit Lace Speeding - 108.9 km/h
Offence Breach of Article 30.12 of the 2010 FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations
Penalty Fine - €1,800

Document No.33 (http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/kor-document-33.pdf)


No / Driver 3, Michael Schumacher
Team Mercedes GP Petronas F1 Team
Time 14:41
Session Qualifying
Fact Between turns 10 and 14 during Qualifying 2, Car 3 impeded Car 9 as evidenced by video and telemetry data.
Offence Breach of Article 16.1 of the 2010 FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations
Penalty A penalty of a Reprimand is imposed on the driver.
The stewards note that irrespective of the team’s opinion that car 9 was not on a “fast lap”, it is ultimately the drivers responsibility to be conscious of closing cars via the use of mirrors and blue flags/lights.

Document No.34 (http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/kor-document-34.pdf)


No / Driver 4, Nico Rosberg
Team Mercedes GP Petronas F1 Team
Time 11:54
Session Practice Three
Fact During Practice 3 between turns 14 and 15 Car 4 impeded Car 8 forcing the driver of Car 8 to brake heavily
Offence Breach of Article 16.1 of the 2010 FIA Sporting Regulations
Decision Noting that the driver of Car 4 attempted to avoid impeding Car 8 the Stewards decide to impose no Penalty

[Ranger]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/5019

FIA and BBC both predict heavy rain for the race!

But I'll wait 'til I see it.

[maximilian]

I don't think Ferrari, or any other team, really need a driver who simply gives up, if what you imply is true. If you're a quitter, then there's no place for you in F1.
So true. If you have to go searching around for "motivation", it's time to get the hell out. You have the most amazing job in the world, regardless of anything. If you can't get motivated for that, then you're toast, and might as well follow Kimi.

I am not saying that this is what Massa is going through, but any driver who can't motivate themselves for racing in F1 should really call it quits.

[fandango]

I wouldn't like to see the WDC decided by weather at this point in the season.

[maximilian]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/5019

FIA and BBC both predict heavy rain for the race!

But I'll wait 'til I see it.

That would surely make things interesting. I am not sure what to think of it. I would LIKE rain before the race, so the dusty side of the starting grid gets washed off. If it is such a big disadvantage like many seem to think, it would be a very unfair component in the crucial title fight. Rain during the race would also take the tire wear factor out of it, but I am also not sure I want weather to influence the title fight.

Might also be interesting to see whether a high-attrition wet race can bring one of the new teams a point! :)

[Ranger]

That would surely make things interesting. I am not sure what to think of it. I would LIKE rain before the race, so the dusty side of the starting grid gets washed off. If it is such a big disadvantage like many seem to think, it would be a very unfair component in the crucial title fight. Rain during the race would also take the tire wear factor out of it, but I am also not sure I want weather to influence the title fight.

Might also be interesting to see whether a high-attrition wet race can bring one of the new teams a point! :)

It is raining there now. So there goes the advantage over the dirty side of the grid.

The question is now whether the race will be wet AND what the rain will do to the tarmac surface. :s hock:

[ioan]

I agree with the sentiments of theugsquirrel here. Racing for Santander and Alonso, as such, probably isn't interesting indeed. But what Massa can do in such situation, is to simply enjoy being part of F1, get the enjoyment of driving the car as fast as he can and battling with others cars on track - like living in his own world. A lot is dependent on tweaking the thinking. After all he can feel relaxed about not being involved in the title fight, so can just purely enjoy racing without such pressure.

Perhaps over time Massa can learn enjoying the status of an underdog driver, at the moment he clearly isn't used to it. Just let's look at Button for contrast, he seems to enjoy his underdog status. Before the season everyone kept telling, how McLaren is Hamilton's team, he is the number one there and Button has no chance. Well, he never cared and despite being outpaced he is getting the results. If Massa can reach such relaxed feeling for 2011, he may actually really surprise. And it's the only way he can do it. But by thinking that "oh well I'm a number 2 driver and how frustrating is that" he will never do that. It would be quite pointless.

Who knows, perhaps 2010 will be valuable for Massa's development as a driver. It has been a good character building season as for the first time in his F1 career he may feel that Ferrari isn't supporting him (they did even in his Sauber days). But he has the whole winter to think, how to approach next season with such knowledge and adapt to the situation.

Because you think that if Massa would be ahead of Alonso on the track they would let him win?!
So what use to try to do better just to be ordered to turn down teh revs and let the other guy by?

Maybe you would do what you think Massa should do, but then again is it important to Felipe what you guys think of him or what he thinks is right for him to do?!

Judging someone from your own subjective POV only yields the subjective conclusions you were expecting.

[ioan]

I wouldn't like to see the WDC decided by weather at this point in the season.

Don't worry the weather will be the same for everyone, which is more than fair on all the contenders.

[ioan]

No LdM didn't tell me that, I just think and hope Massa isn't that stupid to play against Ferrari especially with so few seat available at top Team for next season. And why you care how Ferrari deals with drivers anyway...thanks God you're not, and you've never been a real tifoso !

I care for the Ferrari driver who almost got killed on track last year while driving for Ferrari and not for scumbags who rule Ferrari now based on sponsor nationality.

If being a tifoso now means kicking a guy who was within an inch of dying while driving a scarlet car then you are a tifoso and I am glad that I am not one.

[donKey jote]

boohoo :laugh:

[jens]

Because you think that if Massa would be ahead of Alonso on the track they would let him win?!
So what use to try to do better just to be ordered to turn down teh revs and let the other guy by?

Maybe you would do what you think Massa should do, but then again is it important to Felipe what you guys think of him or what he thinks is right for him to do?!

Judging someone from your own subjective POV only yields the subjective conclusions you were expecting.

So are you trying to imply that he shouldn't bother with giving his best and performing well if he isn't allowed to beat Alonso? Perhaps if he wanted to have a revenge on the team without caring about the consequences, then yes. This is by the way, what Trulli did in Italy in 2004, driving deliberately slowly outside the points all weekend. But he already had a contract with another team and knew that this was his last race for Renault, so he could afford something like that.

But consistently acting like that would do nothing else than damage career outlooks for good. Perhaps if Felipe feels that he is done with F1, then let him happily trundle around without caring until getting the inevitable boot. But if he wants to have a challenge in F1, he ought to up his game regardless of how tough the circumstances are. Challenges are there to overcome them - and being a No2 driver is one of them. Not to mention that Massa has already done that - there is not much doubt that Ferrari expected Kimi to be a firm #1, so Felipe had to work hard to overcome this general impression he had to face at that moment.

Barrichello stayed in Ferrari for six years trying to believe that once comes a year, when he can outrace Schumacher. Never happened, but I doubt he would have stayed there that long if he didn't have even an ouch of self-belief of actually achieving it. Nonetheless he didn't let motivation factor interfere with his performance, was always his solid self and has been a respectable driver also after Ferrari years.

If Massa was sacked by Ferrari at the moment, I wonder who would hire him at the moment? I think two years ago he was much hotter property, his stock has fallen massively. He needs to up his game and perform even if he wants to join another team to prove his worth. Not to mention that there is simply no point in being consistently miserable and unmotivated even if you don't like the situation.

[Tazio]

I for one think that Massa drove very well in quali until q3 where he was .4 slower than q2. I back the guy big-time, but he is slower than Fred who piked up .4 in q3. Massa had a problem with traffic in q3 which explains part of his poor q3 time.

[Dave B]

The latest from the BBC's Ian Furgusson:


Sunday: CONFIDENCE MODERATE (improving): Mostly cloudy. Rain expected to have arrived overnight, albeit heaviest PPN expected further to the south. Possible that wet weather will have departed before race start, but this remains open to a high degree of uncertainty. Chance of PPN 70%. Max 19C. Breezy. Wind ENE.

70% chance of precipitation!! :eek:

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/weather/ianfergusson/

[steveaki13]

Don't worry the weather will be the same for everyone, which is more than fair on all the contenders.

I agree.

To win the world title, you need to be able to win in any condition.
If you spin off in the race because its wet, you can't complain if you lose the title.

[pino]

I care for the Ferrari driver who almost got killed on track last year while driving for Ferrari and not for scumbags who rule Ferrari now based on sponsor nationality.

If being a tifoso now means kicking a guy who was within an inch of dying while driving a scarlet car then you are a tifoso and I am glad that I am not one.

First of all do watch your language !

As for Massa, who asked Ferrari to kick him ? It's you with your recent hatred for Ferrari and Alonso, who expects Massa to run his own race and turn his back to them. But for all the years where Rubens were used by Michael and Ferrari you had no problems with that, you fought against half forum to defend Ferrari's strategy. I guess you've wasted 8 years of your life in here for nothing then...

[Roamy]

ioan you are just bitter because the truth is coming out about the cheater. for all those years you thought the Ferrari was the greatest. The Toad, The Brawn and The Cheater. All it was is F1's answer to Wall Street. Get over it Ferrari has now returned to the great Marque they were before your regime. Hopefull FA will win the WDC and confirm this - Viva Ferrari !!!!!!!!

[Wasted Talent]

ioan you are just bitter because the truth is coming out about the cheater. for all those years you thought the Ferrari was the greatest. The Toad, The Brawn and The Cheater. All it was is F1's answer to Wall Street. Get over it Ferrari has now returned to the great Marque they were before your regime. Hopefull FA will win the WDC and confirm this - Viva Ferrari !!!!!!!!

ABA......

(Anyone But Alonso.........please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

WT

[ioan]

I care for the Ferrari driver who almost got killed on track last year while driving for Ferrari and not for scumbags who rule Ferrari now based on sponsor nationality.

If being a tifoso now means kicking a guy who was within an inch of dying while driving a scarlet car then you are a tifoso and I am glad that I am not one.

First of all do watch your language !

First of all my language was very civilized. Care point out what exactly bothered you in my previous post?! There is no foul language at all.
Or maybe you are, again, attacking me because of your personal problems with me?



As for Massa, who asked Ferrari to kick him ? It's you with your recent hatred for Ferrari and Alonso, who expects Massa to run his own race and turn his back to them. But for all the years where Rubens were used by Michael and Ferrari you had no problems with that, you fought against half forum to defend Ferrari's strategy. I guess you've wasted 8 years of your life in here for nothing then...

I don't waste my time in here, I have a life of my own outside of the board, I come here to post about F1 as I see it, not as others want me to see it.

Back in the days of Schumacher, Todt and Brawn did stand up and acknowledged what the team policy was, not like LdM and domenicalli who were not men enough and keep blabbering about equality when in fact they sold Massa out a long time ago.
As far as I remember Massa was allowed to win and finish ahead of MS whenever he was faster back in 2006 even though MS was fighting for the title, this isn't the case anymore.

[Tazio]

As I posted on another thread:


The thing about FM's relationship with Mike was he knew he was #2
I just watched a replay of a 2006 GP I can't remember which one it was (I've watched so many lately) it was early-ish in the season, possibly Spain. The ITV announcer commented on how Massa put a disproportionate amount of miles on his tires in the set up stage to allow Mike to have two fresh sets of 'stones for the race, effectively having Massa give up any chance of winning before the race even started. Brawn and Todt were no more magnanimous than Stefano, and Co.
Actually I think it was Imola that they made this observation.
At any rate your comments are really badly timed. Regardless of which institution is backing Fred financially he has been driving out of his mind lately. His effort is nothing short of herculean.
Not to worry however, it will really take divine intervention for someone other than one of the two pilots driving the best car in the field to win the WDC.
You don't need to be so freakin' antagonistic bro :dozey:

[pino]

First of all my language was very civilized. Care point out what exactly bothered you in my previous post?! There is no foul language at all.
Or maybe you are, again, attacking me because of your personal problems with me?



Once again (1 mill times now) if I had a personal problem with you, you would've gone long long time ago. Now last time I checked scumbags was a very rude and offensive word so don't let me catch you calling anyone that again !

End of discussion for me.

[steveaki13]

Can't we all just be friends having a difference of opinion. :) ;) :rolleyes:

[Valve Bounce]

Can't we all just be friends having a difference of opinion. :) ;) :rolleyes:

I think this thread, which I started was Korean GP. Maybe we can get back on topic, please? :p :

[ioan]

Can't we all just be friends having a difference of opinion. :) ;) :rolleyes:

No problems for me. :)

[ioan]

I think this thread, which I started was Korean GP. Maybe we can get back on topic, please? :p :

Sure, no problem Valve. :)

Looks like it is raining right now on the circuit, Webber must be relieved that the track advantage at the start will even out.

[Valve Bounce]

One thing did surprise me - Mark Webber coming out that early for his final lap(s). I felt that he would have missed the optimum track conditions on his first fast lap, and might opt for a second fast lap, which he did. However the question remains :"Did his tyres go off before he ended his last ditch lap?" Would he have pole had he gone for just one fast lap? Buggered if I know. :(

[edv]

Pity about the rain....it would have been interesting to see if the f-duct cars had anything for the RBRs down the 3 consecutive straights. We all know the RBRs will pull away through the fast sweepers and the twisty bits.

But, the rain always brings something unexpected, doesn't it?
Perhaps something nice for Mercedes or Renault...perhaps a shake-up in the WDC fight?

[Ranger]

Pity about the rain....it would have been interesting to see if the f-duct cars had anything for the RBRs down the 3 consecutive straights. We all know the RBRs will pull away through the fast sweepers and the twisty bits.

But, the rain always brings something unexpected, doesn't it?
Perhaps something nice for Mercedes or Renault...perhaps a shake-up in the WDC fight?

It has already been raining overnight. No guarantees it will still be wet at the start and during the race though.

These were taken this (Sunday) morning:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t56/drmlg/F1/181822046.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t56/drmlg/F1/181801663.jpg

[maxter]

I genuinely hope for some proper mixing up in the end result, be it due to rain or tyre degradation or whatever. Kubica or Rosberg on the podium perhaps? As long as the title fight stays tight in the end I'll be thrilled either way, and I'm actually expecting an awesome race.

I don't think I'll be able to force myself awake in time to watch it live though I'm afraid. :(

[gerkebi]

Don't know who is in Miami but I got Burger and Beer Joint at the beach to commit to show the race on the big screen at 2. Don't have Speed TV down here so that's gonna have to do!

[Valve Bounce]

I genuinely hope for some proper mixing up in the end result, be it due to rain or tyre degradation or whatever. Kubica or Rosberg on the podium perhaps? As long as the title fight stays tight in the end I'll be thrilled either way, and I'm actually expecting an awesome race.

I don't think I'll be able to force myself awake in time to watch it live though I'm afraid. :(

Buddy! you need a good PVR with time shift. :up:

[Valve Bounce]

Pity about the rain....it would have been interesting to see if the f-duct cars had anything for the RBRs down the 3 consecutive straights. We all know the RBRs will pull away through the fast sweepers and the twisty bits.

But, the rain always brings something unexpected, doesn't it?
Perhaps something nice for Mercedes or Renault...perhaps a shake-up in the WDC fight?

GO! BUNSEN!!

[truefan72]

I for one think that Massa drove very well in quali until q3 where he was .4 slower than q2. I back the guy big-time, but he is slower than Fred who piked up .4 in q3. Massa had a problem with traffic in q3 which explains part of his poor q3 time.

something called available sets of tyres hampered his Q3 effort

[truefan72]

I hope this rain will not see mud and construction debris run unto the track.

to me that first lap is going to be key. In fact the two long straights are going to be critical if rain does fall.

Either way i am excited about the race as usual and hope to see something good.

[Tazio]

something called available sets of tyres hampered his Q3 effortYes he only left one set for q3 but without traffic he could have had a lap equal to the one he put in in q2.

If he didn't think he needed them in q2 he would have had a chance to get in a faster lap, and either gotten grid position 4 or 5 or finnishd outside the top 10 :confused: ;)


Felipe Massa: "I am not happy, especially because sixth place means I have to start on the less clean side of the grid, which is a major handicap on a surface as dirty as this one. I was very pleased at the end of Q2, because the car was more competitive than yesterday and I thought I could fight for a top place. Unfortunately, I had a bit of traffic on the only run I did in Q3 on my last set of new soft tyres: a shame because the car was going well, but I was not able to get the most out of it.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=392114

[Tazio]

GO! BUNSEN!!

:s ailor: Buddy you need a Valium ;)

[Easy Drifter]

If it rains hard those two curb areas that are lower than the track surface could be downright interesting, assuming they have not been raised up.

[donKey jote]

they're spinning all over the shore :p :s

[Tazio]

they're spinning all over the shore :p :s

This has all the makings of a real clusterf**k

[fandango]

15 minutes to go before race start. Alonso says "well, no-one's going to win the championship today, but someone's probably going to lose it, so we hope it won't be us.

Could be a good race for Hamilton, I reckon. And Schumacher must be wishing he was ten years younger...

[AndyL]

I hope this rain will not see mud and construction debris run unto the track.

I hope it won't see the whole track sink back into the swamp!

Podium: Kubica, Rosberg, Kobayashi. :)

10th place in the WCC could be up for grabs today.

[donKey jote]

pussies... starting behind the sc :mad:

[callum122]

How beige, race to start behind safety car.

Edit: ahhh, beat me by that much.

[Daika]

Why does Alonso have a blue eye?

[fandango]

I wonder will Ferrari bring in Massa to change to intermediates early when conditions ease, to be a tester for Alonso.

[donKey jote]

this is a joke... they shouldn't have started at all if it's that bad :mad:

[call_me_andrew]

This is one of the loudest parades I've ever seen!

[donKey jote]

donkeys... 3 laps for nuttin

[call_me_andrew]

Holy damn red flag after 3 laps! I guess laps 1 and 2 were pro forma.

[call_me_andrew]

Is the 2 hour clock running?

[F1boat]

I don't know. I remember horrible rain in 1996 and in 1997, in Monte Carlo, when the storm was so powerful that the waves of the sea clashed powerfully near the track. It looked like Armageddon, but the race was not cancelled. I don't know what to think about the sport now.

[Tazio]

Why does Alonso have a blue eye?
:s ailor: Your really bored bro :p

[TMorel]

That radar is showing a lot of rain all around :(
Redbull saying 40mins worth of rain minimum

call_me_andrew,
They're saying that article 5 point something says the 2hr clock is still running, but the delay time is added to it. What happens if it gets dark with that extra delay!!!

[call_me_andrew]

No significant improvement expected for 40 minutes. Awesome.

[Daika]

:s ailor: Your really bored bro :p

it's not like they are racing. I assume because they already started the race behind sc car that a new start without sc is impossible?

[AndyL]

Is the 2 hour clock running?

BBC commentators just said the clock is stopped at 1 hour 53 minutes.

[Dave B]

Is the 2 hour clock running?

Yes.

Just a reminder that they'll need to do 75% of race distance for full points, or 25% for half points.

[N4D13]

That radar is showing a lot of rain all around :(
Redbull saying 40mins worth of rain minimum

call_me_andrew,
They're saying that article 5 point something says the 2hr clock is still running, but the delay time is added to it. What happens if it gets dark with that extra delay!!!
In that case, the rain won't be restarted. I don't know if they would give out half of the normal points or, more sensibly, no points would be given at all.

Edit: no points would be given. As someone has already said, they'd need to do 25% of the race distance for that.

That said, it's still 15:28 at Korea.

[AndyL]

Yes.

But the length of the delay is added to the 2 hour time limit so the clock is effectively stopped.

[Tazio]

it's not like they are racing. I assume because they already started the race behind sc car that a new start without sc is impossible?I don't think it's impossible, but unless the sun comes out and the track dries in 5 minutes they will go out as soon as it improves enough to start behind the safety car.

[steveaki13]

You have got to hope for the fans in the grandstands sake that we see a race, but it is maybe looking doubtful.

[call_me_andrew]

On the one hand, I feel bad for South Korea, on the other hand I am enjoying this 30 headed disaster.

[Tazio]

But the length of the delay is added to the 2 hour time limit so the clock is effectively stopped.
It started again after they removed the red flag even though they're stopped! :confused:

[Daika]

Can the director just show cute Korean kids and the excitement when they see their face on tv can't be bother to look at mechanics/drivers/cars standing in the rain

[TMorel]

[sigh] could have had another hour in bed !

Kubica and Hamiliton want to race so it's ashame they have to have the red flag delay sitting on the track, otherwise you could have some of them thrashing round the track on those little scooters putting on a display for the crowds.

The traffic queues for people still arriving at the track is crazy, almost as big as the M25 !

[steveaki13]

I have a horrid feeling no race today.

Shame, I think if they had started it at the proper time, Kobayashi could have won. ;) :p

[Dave B]

Yes.

Just a reminder that they'll need to do 75% of race distance for full points, or 25% for half points.

Correction: 2 laps for half points so right now Vettel would score 12.5

[F1boat]

This is a shame, in no way the current conditions are worse then Japan 2007. Boo, F1.

[steveaki13]

Bet Lotus think they are destined not to get a point this year. Their best shot at a point and no race.

[AndyL]

It started again after they removed the red flag even though they're stopped! :confused:

Ron Dennis just saying the clock is still running too... confusing.

Edit: I mean Martin Whitmarsh... Freudian slip!

[call_me_andrew]

Lap counter displays local yellow but no SC. That's a fine puzzle.

[AndyL]

Bet Lotus think they are destined not to get a point this year. Their best shot at a point and no race.

I reckon they'd be quite happy with that, if the race goes ahead it could be a chance for someone else to take their current 10th place.

[steveaki13]

Lap counter displays local yellow but no SC. That's a fine puzzle.

Yer it was black a while ago now changed to yellow.

Wonder why?

Could it be because the road sweepers are on the track.

[steveaki13]

I reckon they'd be quite happy with that, if the race goes ahead it could be a chance for someone else to take their current 10th place.

Good point.


Virgin who are disappointed then. :p

[ioan]

Can you see the strong rain that is stopping them from racing, because I can't?!
Did anyone but Button complain under the SC?!

WTF, is F1 slowly turning into NASCAR?

What happened to races like Fuji 2007, Spain 96, Japan 94 and so on?!

FGS it isn't even really raining out there, however in less than 2 hours it will be dark already!

Get rid of the lil' girls and show us a race of grown up men, they should know how fast they can go, we should not protect them from themselves (because that is what we are witnessing right now!

[Dave B]

There'll be pressure to start and get at least some racing laps in to show Korea what F1 looks like. Rain has eased off slightly, if it stays like this another SC start is possible.

The big problem is sunset in just over an hour!

[shurik]

another proof that modern F1 is a bunch of pussies. would rather watch WRC live coverage if we had one.

[Daika]

They can't race. Not because of the rain but because of the new surface. Who is gonna pay for this?

[F1boat]

another proof that modern F1 is a bunch of pussies. would rather watch WRC live coverage if we had one.

I agree. I am sorry that I have no coverage for V8 Supercars, I'd have rather wacted Gold Coast 600 then this shameful showing. Is F1 like NASCAR now, no wet races at all? I still remember great races like Panis winning in Monte 1996 or Herbert in Nurburgring 1999, finding luck in difficult conditions. All distant memories now... :(

[TMorel]

Following on from Ioan (and I think Alonso was pretty vocal too not just Button so hard for Charlie to ignore two world champions)

So if the problem isn't the rain exactly, but the fact it isn't draining and the surface has lost all its grip ? Would this all be back to the issues laying the track and the recipe of tarmac they used (where's Valves insight when we need it) ?

[call_me_andrew]

WTF, is F1 slowly turning into NASCAR?

That's absurd. NASCAR has infrastructure and contingency plans in place for excessive rain delays. This is just shameful unprepardness.

[AndyL]

Stefano says 1h53m to go (light permitting). Even the team principals can't agree what the rules are!

[steveaki13]

I think as said a few times above, they could race. It can't be as bad as Fuji 2007, or many many other wet races.

Schumi saying on BBC it was pretty bad, but he has raced in much worse conditions.

Adelaide 1991 with cars spinning into walls, Suzuka 94, Spain 96, Monaco 97 etc.

Edit: They have just showed EJ and Jake H on BBC and they have been stood outside for 20 minutes with no coats and are almost dry.
What gives?

If it is all to do with the track surface then there has to be alot of questions to answer.

[F1boat]

I am very sad for Korean fans who came to witness the pinnacle of motorsport. What a horrible surprise for them.

[call_me_andrew]

10 minutes to yellow. *Yawn*

[ioan]

another proof that modern F1 is a bunch of pussies. would rather watch WRC live coverage if we had one.

Exactly! But be warned the politically correct won't agree with you.
Drivers in F1 are not protected from flying objects that can kill them however they are protected from themselves and from trying to race.

[steveaki13]

This is unacceptable.

If modern F1 drivers and officials refuse to race in these conditions, they should at least come up with systems to run the race the next day or start it earlier so that they have plenty of time before it gets dark.

[Dave B]

Once they get running again, even behind SC, they'll start making a dry line. Stop moaning: we're going racing!

[Ranger]

Its not the rain. Its the track. Exactly the issue everyone was talking about all week.

Race restarting in 5.

[Daniel]

Medical car was going very nicely there.

[Daniel]

they should have restarted far earlier. The cars would have made a dry line.....

[steveaki13]

Once they get running again, even behind SC, they'll start making a dry line. Stop moaning: we're going racing!



How can you be sure we are going racing.

I haven't heard anyone overly interested in racing from the interviews I've seen.

Edit: Sorry Just heard the news as I posted. forget this post.

[F1boat]

If there is no race here, I am not sure I will bother with rest of the season. After all, what is the point of ruining your plans of the day when in the end they are not racing?
Well, maybe it will be safe to watch Abu Dhabi :D

[F1boat]

Exactly! But be warned the politically correct won't agree with you.
Drivers in F1 are not protected from flying objects that can kill them however they are protected from themselves and from trying to race.

Maybe F1 should change the rules and become a series of automodelism. So no danger at all.

[steveaki13]

Not Brazil it could drizzle there also. Too dangerous. Lets just head to the desert

[UltimateDanGTR]

of all places for it to rain at.......

lets just hope for a safe race now, I have fears about that back straight and people spinning there......

[Daniel]

When will we first see an indoor circuit?

[Powered by Cosworth]

The sky looks pretty good from the copter, but as others have said, this is all about the state of the tarmac.

[F1boat]

Yes. Automodelism series in the desert! Safe and good for these brave and courageous sportsmen and for the prescious team strategy.

[ioan]

They can't race. Not because of the rain but because of the new surface. Who is gonna pay for this?

What's the problem with the surface? It's the same for everyone and they are all racers who know how fast one can go with that much or little grip.

[ioan]

Yes. Automodelism series in the desert! Safe and good for these brave and courageous sportsmen and for the prescious team strategy.

He he! :up: :)

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Stupid rain! I was hoping to be able to watch all this race before I go to work at 9.30 (17.30 Korea time).
:(

[ioan]

There they go again.
I'll give them half an hour after that I had planned to drive to München and visit the BMW museum, it will certainly be open and more exciting that watching a SC race on a damp track.

[steveaki13]

Oh well underway of sorts again. Lets hope the officials take a(Quote) "Brave" decision and pull the SC in and get on with it.

[F1boat]

There they go again.
I'll give them half an hour after that I had planned to drive to München and visit the BMW museum, it will certainly be open and more exciting that watching a SC race on a damp track.

For sure. I am waiting for a F1 powerboat race - something really dangerous, but the drivers go and race there.

[ioan]

Maybe F1 should change the rules and become a series of automodelism. So no danger at all.

What? Do you mean they should expose those poor models to the possibility of scratching away the sponsor names?! Charlie will make sure it is run under SC!

[ioan]

For sure. I am waiting for a F1 powerboat race - something really dangerous, but the drivers go and race there.

Luckily they do not fear the wet! ;)

[ioan]

Ha ha ha!
While Lewis says it is much better, others still complain. :\

At least there is one race driver out there.

Sakon is trying hard too, maybe the HRT is already at racing speed!

[F1boat]

They do not and it is truly a lethal sport. You are right about the sponsors.
The sad thing is that this is an Armageddon for the sponsors. They are assosiated with bunch of cowards.

[F1boat]

Ha ha ha!
While Lewis says it is much better, others still complain. :\

I am not a fan of him, but if he can drive in such conditions and other can not, it is only right for him to win and for them to retire.

[steveaki13]

I like Button, but he is being a real pain here always moaning and being a bit wimpy.

[Daniel]

Just take the safety car off, tell them to be careful and go racing.

[ioan]

When will we first see an indoor circuit?

In this rhythm I give it another 3 years before that happens.

[F1boat]

Just take the safety car off, tell them to be careful and go racing.

I second that!

[TMorel]

I'm loving listening to Brundle, it's like listening to your granddad...
"Kids today, no bravery. I remember racing a car underwater with all five wheel ripped off and Bernie yelling at me to drive faster and we did and we loved it"

[truefan72]

lets GOOOOOOO!
this is embarrassing the track seems fine now at lap 7 lets go racing!
take the bloody SC off please.

Once they go racing the grip will improve and the line will appear

[truefan72]

I'm loving listening to Brundle, it's like listening to your granddad...
"Kids today, no bravery. I remember racing a car underwater with all five wheel ripped off and Bernie yelling at me to drive faster and we did and we loved it"

I agree with him on this one though.

The way some of these drivers and team principles are talking is as if we never had a wet race in F1

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Chance of Lotus, Virgin or HRT getting in the points if the racing starts?

[F1boat]

I'm loving listening to Brundle, it's like listening to your granddad...
"Kids today, no bravery. I remember racing a car underwater with all five wheel ripped off and Bernie yelling at me to drive faster and we did and we loved it"

very well said. I think that this year F1 showed itself in a really bad light, very afraid from the rain, while actually wet races are the best and everybody knows it.

[ShiftingGears]

This is pathetic

[ioan]

I'm loving listening to Brundle, it's like listening to your granddad...
"Kids today, no bravery. I remember racing a car underwater with all five wheel ripped off and Bernie yelling at me to drive faster and we did and we loved it"

Sadly he is right! Both about the kids and about the lack of courage.

[steveaki13]

Anyone who doesn't want to race pull off, and let Lewis and any other braver drivers go and race.

Thats the best idea.

[AndyL]

Looking at the McLaren online telemetry they're using a decent amount of throttle, so there's some sort of grip out there.

[ioan]

Just take the safety car off, tell them to be careful and go racing.

Not in nanny state F1!

[F1boat]

Anyone who doesn't want to race pull of and let Lewis and any other braver drivers go and race.

Thats the best idea.

That's how James Hunt won his championship, I think.

[Ranger]

Brundle's 1989 Australian GP tale was good... but then again at that race got ran into by Ayrton Senna at twice the speed of sound!

Chuck the green flag and see what happens.

[ioan]

I agree with him on this one though.

The way some of these drivers and team principles are talking is as if we never had a wet race in F1

That's F1 today, luckily I'll be off to see some real motorsport history in 30 minutes.

[donKey jote]

schumi is brave :)

[F1boat]

I am a fan of Hamilton already. A true man.

[Daniel]

Ffs you tards. If you go green the cars won't be so close and visibility will be better. Tards

[F1boat]

schumi is brave :)

IMO he is testing how wet are the chicanes.
Very, unfortunately for him.
Or he is bored - can't really blame him for them.

[ioan]

Have to love Lewis! He's playing up the conditions while Lonso is complaining like a teenager. :D
Watch him come after you Fernando!

[ioan]

IMO he is testing how wet are the chicanes.
Very, unfortunately for him.
Or he is bored - can't really blame him for them.

At least he is not complaining about the water. :)

[F1boat]

But in the same time Maylander continues to dominate. :D

[AndyL]

I am a fan of Hamilton already. A true man.

Now he's saying "conditions are good!"

[F1boat]

At least he is not complaining about the water. :)

I'd love Mickey and Rubens to win this :D

[ioan]

Anyone who doesn't want to race pull off, and let Lewis and any other braver drivers go and race.

Thats the best idea.

That would be too much common sense mate, you should never apply for a FIA position, you stand no chance. ;)

[steveaki13]

Engineer: How are the conditions Lewis?

Lewis: There fine, come on saps let me at you! :D

[ioan]

I'd love Mickey and Rubens to win this :D

:D :up:

[Daniel]

Let's go ladies.........

[TMorel]

and now it's raining heavier again

[ioan]

Hey Charlie the drivers would like to race today, get you toy out of the track you granny!

FFS the race should be almost over and I should be driving on the highway. Talk about ruining my week end plans.

[F1boat]

This is really utterly shameful. I am appaled that I am fan of such cowards. :(

[steveaki13]

These guys should have played Tennis if they didn't want to play in the rain.

This is F1 come on lets go!!!

I'm probably getting more unreasonable as I get more frustrated here, but seriously what is all this about?

[truefan72]

Anyone who doesn't want to race pull off, and let Lewis and any other braver drivers go and race.

Thats the best idea.

That is how I feel

That's how it was sorted out in the past

[Daniel]

Webber = Whiney bitch. Go racing, it's what you're meant to do.

[ioan]

Webber you kido, go home and let Lewis race.

[truefan72]

there is almost no spray now on the front straight so can we please go race????

[F1boat]

The sad thing is that I have an excellent campy and ridiculous Star Wars novel about a Jedi fighting Sith Lords from different parts of time. I should have read it and not bothered with the ladies there.

[ioan]

This is really utterly shameful. I am appaled that I am fan of such cowards. :(

I give them another 5 minutes then I'm on my way out.

[truefan72]

Webber you kido, go home and let Lewis race.

exactly

win the WDC by merit not by default

[Rollo]

Why not just can the race today and go out on Monday? The teams would still be there, they charter their own planes around the world, it's not like it's that much of an expense.

A Monday contingencyu plan would be far better than the roundy-roundy slow fest wel have now.

[shurik]

I'm loving listening to Brundle, it's like listening to your granddad...
"Kids today, no bravery. I remember racing a car underwater with all five wheel ripped off and Bernie yelling at me to drive faster and we did and we loved it"

lol, couldn't agree more..
Just had this memory about 2x45min kart race couple of years ago in Moscow, it was -25C, rain tyres, and no additional clothing, just a rain suit. No one complained, most guys said then that it was one of their best experience ever :D

[ioan]

Webber = Whiney bitch. Go racing, it's what you're meant to do.

He's no WDC material, I always knew it! :D
Give that trophy to Lewis! :)

[F1boat]

Why? They should race in the wet!