Israel's proposed 'Jewish oath' for new citizens sparks racism row

[Jag_Warrior]

The Israeli cabinet today approved a bill requiring new non-Jewish citizens to swear an oath of allegiance to Israel as a "Jewish and democratic state", in a move that has brought accusations of discrimination against Israel's Arab minority. One dissenting cabinet minister referred to a "whiff of fascism".

The bill, originally promoted by the rightwing foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, who has made the issue of loyalty a hallmark of his political career, was passed by a big majority despite the opposition of Labour party members.

The loyalty oath will be required of non-Jews seeking to become Israeli citizens, mainly affecting Palestinians from the West Bank who marry Palestinian citizens of Israel.

Israel's proposed 'Jewish oath' for new citizens sparks racism row (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/10/israel-jewish-oath-new-citizens)

[Eki]

But at least Israel is the only working democracy in the Middle East (= it works for the Jews).

[Easy Drifter]

It makes sense if you are to be a citizen of a country you owe your allegiance to that country.
Our oath used to require allegiance to the Queen, although I am not sure it still does. Queen Elizabeth is the titular Queen of Canada although she has no real authority. Under our Constitution the Governor General as the Queen's representative has some powers but very limited.
Too complex to go into here.

[Eki]

It makes sense if you are to be a citizen of a country you owe your allegiance to that country.
Our oath used to require allegiance to the Queen, although I am not sure it still does. Queen Elizabeth is the titular Queen of Canada although she has no real authority. Under our Constitution the Governor General as the Queen's representative has some powers but very limited.
Too complex to go into here.
But does it require an oath to Canada as an Anglican state?

[donKey jote]

Religion and State should be separate, unless you want to be compared to Muslim States ;) :p

[Easy Drifter]

I do agree any oath should be to the country not to a religion.
The proposed oath to include the Jewish religion is abhorent to me.
I must admit I missed that in my first read. That is what happens when you are up until 4 am watching a F1 race.
Any oath of allegiance in Canada does not include any religion, nor should it.
Sorry Eki.

[Hawkmoon]

It's hardly surprising that they've done this. Israel can be a little xenophobic at times and seems to operate with a siege mentatlity, admittedly with good historical reasons.

Church and state should, in my view, be seperate but if they want to go the other way then fine. They just shouldn't expect support from other secular states on the issue.

[Mark]

Of course America's also includes the line "so help me God". Now; could you substitute that for something else?

[F1boat]

Religion and State should be separate

That's the most important thing!

[Captain VXR]

Of course America's also includes the line "so help me God". Now; could you substitute that for something else?

so help me Dawkins? :p

[TOgoFASTER]

Of course America's also includes the line "so help me God". Now; could you substitute that for something else?

The oath of office does not require the use.
It would be nice to see the holy rollers heads spin just once without. :D


The Pledge of Allegiance did not have "under god" added to it until 1954.
A sad mistake, erroneously based on being a more godly and righteous christian country.

[Bob Riebe]

But does it require an oath to Canada as an Anglican state?
Israel is a Jewish State, what is the problem?

The oath means one is loyal to a State that is a Jewish State; it does not require one be born a Jew, or convert.

A gent I worked with was an Israeli. He said some want to call them selves "palestinian" but there is no such thing. He was born in Israel and was proud of that fact.
He said that he moved to the U.S. because his wife's was a U.S. citizen, and some direct relatives, did not like the fact that he refused to call himself a "palestinian."

At the time this happened, I had no great love for Israel's attitude. When I first met him, he told me he was an Israeli.
He told me later when we were alone, he was a Mulim Israeli, because he said he could see from my eyes that I was not especially fond of Israelis.

After speaking with him, about affairs there, and later decades of learning, by choice and by chance, my attitude had changed greatly about Israel and Abe, as he preferred to be called (as did a Paki I went to college with) rather than "Ibrahim"," is the one who truly opened my eyes to some realities of Israel.

[Bob Riebe]

The oath of office does not require the use.
It would be nice to see the holy rollers heads spin just once without. :D


The Pledge of Allegiance did not have "under god" added to it until 1954.
A sad mistake, erroneously based on being a more godly and righteous christian country.
That is only your opinion. Some agree, and some do not.
The latter is in the majority.

[Bob Riebe]

so help me Dawkins? :p
Ah, faith, the the great crystal god.

[TOgoFASTER]

That is only your opinion. Some agree, and some do not.
The latter is in the majority.

Two facts, two opinions.

You prove the point that what Israel has done is no different.

The three headed ripoff of Ahura Mazda stumbles on blindly.

[Eki]

Israel is a Jewish State, what is the problem?

If it is, why do people have to say it out loud? They seem very insecure about it.

Besides, it's silly. Logically a country can't have a religion, only its people can.
What's even sillier and discriminative is that the passport of Israeli Jews say that their citizenship is Jewish instead of Israeli. It's like my passport would say I'm Lutheran instead of Finnish.

[Azumanga Davo]

Of course America's also includes the line "so help me God". Now; could you substitute that for something else?

I sometimes wonder if that should be the forum slogan. :)

[Robinho]

That is only your opinion. Some agree, and some do not.
The latter is in the majority.

it is, could you provide some facts to back up your claim of the majority?

all i'm seeing here is another case of religon getting in the way of peoples live, making things worse in the world

[Easy Drifter]

Does any one know the citizen criteria for Saudia Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, the UAE or any of the Arabic muslim counties. Can a non muslim become a citizen if not born in the country.
I have no idea but am curious.
It was interesting when the last major upheaval in Lebanon occured it turned out there were about 40,000 Lebanese who had gained Cdn. citizenship but had returned to Lebanon to live.

[Mark in Oshawa]

All I know is the people keep insisting the Jews are the problem with Israel, so I guess they have given up trying to convince their enemies non jews live there too?

Personally, I think they are making a mistake, but unlike many Arab nations, Israel I don't believe has ever gone around harassing and exterminating people without cause the way some of the enemies of Israel do. When I see Tehran building synagogues, and the Saudi's and Iraqi's doing likewise, then there is an argument on which nation is the most tolerant in the area. Isreal by doing this is just being less tolerant...

[Eki]

Some Finnish members of parliament and other well-known people signed a petition demanding Finland to stop weapons trade with Israel. Our President and foreign minister said the weapons trade is not a problem, since Israel only makes about 3% of the Finnish weapons trade. HELLO?!! Shouldn't it be easy to stop it if it's not significant?

[Bob Riebe]

Some Finnish members of parliament and other well-known people signed a petition demanding Finland to stop weapons trade with Israel. Our President and foreign minister said the weapons trade is not a problem, since Israel only makes about 3% of the Finnish weapons trade. HELLO?!! Shouldn't it be easy to stop it if it's not significant?
It is hard to stop when the real don't care about the anti-Israel whining.

[Bob Riebe]

it is, could you provide some facts to back up your claim of the majority?

all i'm seeing here is another case of religon getting in the way of peoples live, making things worse in the world

If it were other wise, it would be gone.
If you lived here you would know, easily, one problem though is a lot of todays youts, don't know the pledge, period.

[Bob Riebe]

If it is, why do people have to say it out loud? They seem very insecure about it.

Besides, it's silly. Logically a country can't have a religion, only its people can.
What's even sillier and discriminative is that the passport of Israeli Jews say that their citizenship is Jewish instead of Israeli. It's like my passport would say I'm Lutheran instead of Finnish.

ON the last point, you do have point.
What does it say on the passport of non-Jews?

[Eki]

ON the last point, you do have point.
What does it say on the passport of non-Jews?
I don't know. Rani here on the forums said his passport says he's Jewish. I don't know any non-Jewish Israelis. But it certainly would be weird if passports of Christian or Muslim Israelis said they were Jewish.

[TOgoFASTER]

it is, could you provide some facts to back up your claim of the majority?

all i'm seeing here is another case of religon getting in the way of peoples live, making things worse in the world


If it were other wise, it would be gone.
If you lived here you would know, easily, one problem though is a lot of todays youts, don't know the pledge, period.


There was no vote from which a majority could be defined in the matter of the allegiance pledge being modified.

This well meaning upright religious majority must be the same strange group of obtuse manifest destiny loving hypocrites that doesn't recall such as forcibly sending native children to internment schools to become good christians in an attempt to assimilate the poor inconvenient leftovers of a proud people.

One has to mildly, at least, wonder why the author saw fit to not place "under god" in his work to begin with...

[TOgoFASTER]

^
http://www.lib.rochester.edu/index.cfm?page=3419

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/bellamy_f/bellamy_f.html

http://www.oldtimeislands.org/pledge/pledge.htm