How do F1 cars set a lap record

[rickos]

Take $1 Billon per team with 500+ engineers and wannabes, and a long list of arrogant drivers.......whereas CART can do it on 1/20 the budget and 1/10000000000 the arrogance.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/20070310-1748-car-champ-springtraining.html


MONTEREY – Sebastien Bourdais showed again Saturday at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca that he has a flair for the dramatic.
The three-time defending Champ Car World Series champion turned the fastest lap of the week just moments before former teammate Bruno Junqueira ran off the 2.238-mile, 11-turn road course, ending the two-day Spring Training test session.



Advertisement Bourdais blistered the circuit with a lap of 1 minute, 5.880 seconds (122.295 mph), unofficially shattering the track record of 1:06.309 (121.504) set last year in an exhibition run by Ricardo Zonta in a Toyota Formula One car.
Official records can only be set in race conditions, either in qualifying or during a race, but Bourdais' run, which goes into the record book with an asterisk, was still impressive.

“It's great that we were able to get under the track time set by the 2006 F1 car,” said Bourdais, who acknowledged using the Push to Pass button – a feature giving the car an extra boost of horsepower for a limited amount of time – on the fast lap.

“But it's only good for a couple of tenths (of a second) here, so we would have broke it without using it.”

After former series champion Paul Tracy, Bourdais and rookie Neel Jani, all came within about four-tenths of a second of Zonta's unofficial mark Friday, Champ Car posted a $5,000 “bounty” payable to the first driver to eclipse the mark Saturday.

Seven drivers, including Bourdais, turned times of under 1:07 in the morning session Saturday, but only Bourdais approached Zonta's time in the afternoon. The Frenchman flashed across the finish line on the record-setting lap with just under 10 minutes remaining in testing. There wasn't enough time to collect Junqueira and clean the track, so the test session was ended.

It was a strong test for Champ Car's new DP01 chassis, which will be used by all the teams in 2007 and beyond. In all, 11 drivers, including Junqueira, driving for the first time for Dale Coyne Racing, were faster than the official track record of 1:07.722 (118.969), set in 2000 by Helio Castroneves.

“The track has a lot of grip; it's really fun to drive here,” said Bourdais, who drives for Newman Haas Lanigan Racing. “Unfortunately, there is so much grip that I really doubt we can use any of the information we gained at any of the tracks this season. The information might be completely irrelevant.”

The 2007 season begins April 8 on a new downtown street circuit in Las Vegas and the Monterey track is not part of the schedule.

“We were able to work through some issues with the car,” Bourdais added. “Cosworth is really trying to get some issues resolved (with the engines) and have made some progress, and Hewland has improved the gearbox.

“My team has fixed what they could, but now it is in the hands of the suppliers. There aren't any tests left so I really hope they can fix the problems, but we won't know until we get to Las Vegas. You hardly ever win a championship with a good start to the season, but you can lose it if you have a bad start.”

The drivers again practiced standing starts for an hour after Champ Car's last of three open tests during the offseason. Champ Car plans to use standing starts at some races this season.


:s mokin:

[tinchote]

And the point is? :confused:

[rickos]

And the point is? :confused:

I don't have to travel the globe and pay through the nose to watch the best of open wheel racing. It's right here in my backyard.

:s mokin:

[Dave B]

Is there a point to this other than to start a futile "my series is better than yours" debate/arguement? :confused:

[hoosierfan]

I think the point is that it is pretty impressive for a car that has a budget of
$500,000 to be faster than a car with a budget of $20,000,000. Thats all. Congrats to Seabass, NHL Racing, and Panoz.

[tinchote]

I don't have to travel the globe and pay through the nose to watch the best of open wheel racing. It's right here in my backyard.

:s mokin:

I don't travel anyhow. I watch F1 comfortably seated in my couch, checking the lap times with my laptop.

[Dave B]

I think the point is that it is pretty impressive for a car that has a budget of
$500,000 to be faster than a car with a budget of $20,000,000. Thats all.
Not really, they're designed to completely different regulations. You're comparing apples with oranges.

[Robinho]

plus toyota are hardly any good are they. and it was a demo run, i think i read something from Zonta at the time saying that if they had properly sorted he setup and attacked the course fully they could have gone much quicker, but as it was only a demo run they weren't chasing an ultimate lap time

[tinchote]

plus toyota are hardly any good are they. and it was a demo run, i think i read something from Zonta at the time saying that if they had properly sorted he setup and attacked the course fully they could have gone much quicker, but as it was only a demo run they weren't chasing an ultimate lap time


And of course you have such details as a 2.4 engine against a turbocharged 2.65 engine, different tyres, etc., etc., etc.

Good flame bait, though ;)

[rlenis]

you begin to wonder where are all those millions for ultra supersonic aerodynamic technology ending up.
lets compare this year lap times in montreal.

[rlenis]

And of course you have such details as a 2.4 engine against a turbocharged 2.65 engine, different tyres, etc., etc., etc.

Good flame bait, though ;)


so are you going to tell the champ cars to change their engines to 2.4 in order to compare the two cars.
please, we are comparing two racing cars from two major open-wheel series with their current configurations as they are now (tires, engine, wings).. and the champ car is the fastest. I do however agree that if it would have been a Ferrari, those time would have been a lot harder to beat.
We have to give a lot of credit to the Champ series and their new chasis.

[tinchote]

so are you going to tell the champ cars to change their engines to 2.4 in order to compare the two cars.
please, we are comparing two racing cars from two major open-wheel series with their current configurations as they are now (tires, engine, wings).. and the champ car is the fastest. I do however agree that if it would have been a Ferrari, those time would have been a lot harder to beat.
We have to give a lot of credit to the Champ series and their new chasis.

You are comparing an F1 test driver, driving one of the worst cars in the series, in a demonstration, to the Champcar champion, driving his car to the limit.

And the fact that the specs are different is totally relevant: you want to compare expense, but under different specs? What's the comparison, then?

[rlenis]

You are comparing an F1 test driver, driving one of the worst cars in the series, in a demonstration, to the Champcar champion, driving his car to the limit.

And the fact that the specs are different is totally relevant: you want to compare expense, but under different specs? What's the comparison, then?

actually if you pick up an comparison article from a car and driver magazine when they test performance of two cars the engines do not have to be of the same configuration.
Its a simple question . You want to find out which car is faster with what they have. You have them do times on the same track and the results is your answer. I know an F1 car is faster (zonta test driver, Toyota sucks in f1) but several years back Champ was way behind. I am giving credit to their obvious improvements with their limited budget.

[F1boat]

please, we are comparing two racing cars from two major open-wheel series with their current configurations as they are now (tires, engine, wings).. and the champ car is the fastest. I do however agree that if it would have been a Ferrari, those time would have been a lot harder to beat.
We have to give a lot of credit to the Champ series and their new chasis.
It is obvious that these new Panoz cars are good, just you check how they look and it is clear. I think that CCWS now has much better machines than the IRL and congratulate them . I doubt, however, that they are better than F1 cars. They might be able now to best the Spykers and the Aguris, but I do think that the other teams will have no trouble beating the Champ Car. Even the Toyota, if RS drives it to the limit, I think that it'll bite maybe a second from SB's time. And the Ferrari will obliterate it.
Now, if SB's takes another second of this time, I will be stunned.
But really, we must wait till Montreal.
Also I want to add that even if the Champ cars show to be faster than F1, which I doubt, I am not sure that the championship has better racing - NASCAR are much slower but in these days, more popular and more fun.

[ChrisS]

several years back Champ was way behind. I am giving credit to their obvious improvements with their limited budget.

Actually, several years back (mid to late 90s) champ cars were at a level similar to F1, then a few years back things went downhill

[rlenis]

Actually, several years back (mid to late 90s) champ cars were at a level similar to F1, then a few years back things went downhill

yeah i know i meant the period from 01 - 06 were downhill.

[rlenis]

Actually, several years back (mid to late 90s) champ cars were at a level similar to F1, then a few years back things went downhill

yeah i know i meant the period from 01 - 06 were downhill.

[Easy Drifter]

Zonta did one flying lap if my memory is correct.
CC are NOT racing in Mtl. this year but at Mt. Tremblant wher F1 cars have not run since the early 70's.

[hoosierfan]

Not really, they're designed to completely different regulations. You're comparing apples with oranges.

Yes, I will give you that they are 2 different car is 2 different series. But only one car, no matter where it came from, can hold the track record at any given track. And right now the Panoz DP01 holds the record at Laguna Seca. And its 1/20 the cost of the Toyota. I'm just giving credit where, I believe, credit is due.
Another thing to consider, although Zonta was "just" a test driver and the Toyota is a perennial back marker in F1, considering that this is only the 3rd time the DP01 has been on a race track makes it even more of an acheivement. I can't wait to see what this car will do when they work out the kinks.

[donKey jote]

As tincho said, give them all the same tires and then you may compare :p :
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[tinchote]

Yes, I will give you that they are 2 different car is 2 different series. But only one car, no matter where it came from, can hold the track record at any given track. And right now the Panoz DP01 holds the record at Laguna Seca. And its 1/20 the cost of the Toyota. I'm just giving credit where, I believe, credit is due.
Another thing to consider, although Zonta was "just" a test driver and the Toyota is a perennial back marker in F1, considering that this is only the 3rd time the DP01 has been on a race track makes it even more of an acheivement. I can't wait to see what this car will do when they work out the kinks.

Even accepting that argument, you want to compare a full CC session with the best drivers pushing their cars to the limit, with a one flying lap session F1 by a test driver on used tryes. It can hardly be called a "car to car" comparison.

In many ocassions, F1 cars have been slower than former F1 cars. This is due to the continuous change in regulations. Does it make the new F1 car a "worse car" than the former F1 which was quicker (due to different rules)? I don't think so.

[Shifter]

Its all in the level of competition. F1 teams (Mclaren, Ferrari, Renault etc) are the best in the world at developing race cars. Unchecked, they'd probably hit 300mph on the straights and corner harder than they do today. So therefore regualtions came to keep the speeds/laptimes down. Champcar teams are good, but they all run the same car to specific specs, so they wouldn't achieve what F1 teams could achieve if both were unregualted. Thats what makes the comparason difficult. And to either series their cars are sort of boxed in by the short straights and short fast turns on Laguna Seca. I'd bet you that Champcars and F1 would be setting equal lap times in Monaco and possibly Hungary, but definately not Spa or Monza or even Turkey.

[Heidfeldrulez]

I think the point is that it is pretty impressive for a car that has a budget of
$500,000 to be faster than a car with a budget of $20,000,000. Thats all. Congrats to Seabass, NHL Racing, and Panoz.

Too bad Champcar dont visit Montreal this year :D Champcar's lap record is a 1:22:325 there as compered to Barrichello's 1:13.622 and Barichello set that on groved tires mind you.

Now Champcar got what 4 sec faster? Well done on that. I like the series and I like the new car, but do you honestly and seriously belive that Champcar is faster, gimme a break dude :D

[Heidfeldrulez]

Btw, please notice that F1 got too fast about 10 years ago, around 1996-1997, FIA realized that and on the ground of safety they try to make cars slower eversince (engines and engine rules, tires and tire rules are clearly serving this very purpose) F1 is still by far faster than Champcar so its not an excuse just a notice.

[waitey]

this is just ridiculous. zonta went for a demo run, in which he drove a few laps, and beat the record in a few laps. where as these champ cars do hundreds of laps there, he did a few laps with limited set up knowledge in a toyota. Now, im telling you, if a grand prix was staged there at laguna seca, or a test session, the f1 cars times would be around the minute mark. If not almost under the minute mark. They would be 5 seconds faster than zonta's lap easily. His demo run meant nothing, those demo runs are never ever accurate. So to say the champ car is faster makes you look like a fool. Even on a short track like laguna, i reckon an f1 car would be almost under the minute.

An F1 car absolutely destroys, yes destroys a champ car. End of story. Oh yeh, did i say an f1 car absolutely destroys a champ car. Thanks.

[call_me_andrew]

And of course you have such details as a 2.4 engine against a turbocharged 2.65 engine, different tyres, etc., etc., etc.

Good flame bait, though ;)

Well Champ Car restricts both revs and boost so the horsepower advantage is minimal.

Plus the F1 car is still about 30kg lighter and has a shorter wheelbase.

I don't think grooved tires vs. slick should be an issue. Thanks to the tire war, a set of 2006 grooved tires should be as fast as CC's slicks.

I'm sure both cars could go faster than the records set, but it's still nice to see that you don't need a huge to go fast.

[BeansBeansBeans]

A drag racer accelerates faster than a DTM car, therefore DTM sucks and all the drivers are losers.

[Ari]

I don't have to travel the globe and pay through the nose to watch the best of open wheel racing. It's right here in my backyard.

:s mokin:

Ironic really. Mentioning arrogance and all in your first post.

Perhaps you're lost... this is not the Cart forum. No? You're not lost? Just American.

[rickos]

Well Champ Car restricts both revs and boost so the horsepower advantage is minimal.

Plus the F1 car is still about 30kg lighter and has a shorter wheelbase.

I don't think grooved tires vs. slick should be an issue. Thanks to the tire war, a set of 2006 grooved tires should be as fast as CC's slicks.

I'm sure both cars could go faster than the records set, but it's still nice to see that you don't need a huge to go fast.

...and don't forget the brake system differences, often cited as the greatest difference by those drivers moving from one series to the other.



Just American ... and how do you screw in a lightbulb?

:s mokin:

[wmcot]

Zonta did one flying lap if my memory is correct.
CC are NOT racing in Mtl. this year but at Mt. Tremblant wher F1 cars have not run since the early 70's.

Speaking of the early '70s (and '60s), CanAm cars held all the track records where they raced on the same tracks as F1 cars. Of course, F1 cars had 3 litre(?) Cosworths while the CanAm cars had 7+ litre engines. Does that mean they were better? No they were entirely different beasts!

As far as watching them, I can watch both series on TV anytime I want, but I'd rather go to an F1 race in person!

(How come nobody brought up the fact that Honda didn't break the World Land Speed Record at Bonneville, either?)

[Hawkmoon]

I think what this really illustrates is not that Champ Cars are as fast as F1 cars but that on a mere fraction of the budget, Champ Car can produce cars that are in the same ball park as F1.

That's how much money F1 is wasting. Now that the regulations have effectively put a cap on speeds, F1 needs to stop wasting money trying to find 0.00001 of a second and start spending money on entertaining the paying public a bit more.

[Ranger]

I personally think all the extra money in F1 is used on the brainpower to get around all the restrictions (ie, loss of power, grip and whatnot) that F1 has bestowed on itself since the mid-1990s.

Since there is no chassis or engine competition in ChampCar, there is no need to spend that sort of money, so it isn't spent.

F1 teams won't settle with their car being slower than the neighbours, and hence more money is spent to make the car quicker. Note that this is all in the goal that they will attain the ultimate bragging right of an F1 championship, probably the greatest marketing tool in motorsport.

[VresiBerba]

As tincho said, give them all the same tires and then you may compare :p :
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

Then we might as well give them the same budget. Hell, why not give anything to everyone and then compare.

[VresiBerba]

I think what this really illustrates is not that Champ Cars are as fast as F1 cars but that on a mere fraction of the budget, Champ Car can produce cars that are in the same ball park as F1.

Just like Brockman said, the reason a champ car is so close in performance is because of the series regulations, not that Champ Car does it better. Why Toyota spends 20mil and not 0.5mil is because they are competing with other teams who also spends 20mil under a regulation that demands it. With a Champ Car regulation, Toyota wouldn't need to.

[ioan]

Comparing a demo run time with a proper testing run time is already laughable even without taking into account the different car specifications.

[Ari]

Comparing a demo run time with a proper testing run time is already laughable even without taking into account the different car specifications.

I just find it hilarious that ChampCar put up a whole $5,000 to the first man to take down the super record!

An F1 driver would hardly get out of bed for $5,000 letalone push an incapable car to its limits. ;)

[ioan]

I just find it hilarious that ChampCar put up a whole $5,000 to the first man to take down the super record!

An F1 driver would hardly get out of bed for $5,000 letalone push an incapable car to its limits. ;)

You might want to write it "super record" ! ;)

[Ari]

You might want to write it "super record" ! ;)

haha or better yet!

"SUPER RECORD"

[janneppi]

Now, which team is going to care enough to "protect" F1's honour and spend one day and do a proper lap?

Where's Minardi when you really need them? :p :

[andreag]

This thread sounds to me like what men used to say:

"My ........... is larger than yours" (field dotted line with anything).

[Robinho]

i think the point has been lost a little in amongst all the fighting. Yes the Cghampcar did a quicker lap, and its onle of the only places where any comparison can be made, and yes the champcar is quicker thanthe old one, and yes, it is massivley cheaper than an F1 car,

BUT,

the Champcar was comissioned by the organisers who said, we will give you $x to come up with a car that has roughly this power, is about this size, runs with these tyres and this amount of downforce. and make it look nice and try to encourage overtaking - Thankyou Mr Panoz, that looks just fine, heres a wad of cash.

Whereas in F1 the Constructors are faced with ever more stringent regulations designed to make it harder for them to go fast, limiting engine size, revs, wing size and position and many other aero details, every possible part is subjected to some regulation, that if it wasn't there would mean they could make the car quicker.

as a result all the constructors spend hats full of cash to make their parts work best under these regs and try to exploit areas that others have not thought of.

in the end the 2 series could end up with 2 cars running the same lap times, but the method of how they get there is entirely different on every level, and every year the F1 guys will finish way faster and new restrictions wil crop up to keep them from running away with things, whereas the Champcar guys, who are doing a great job, will try to extract the best from the car they are given, and times will likely only change when new engines, tyres or aero packages are introduced by the organisers

[ioan]

This thread sounds to me like what men used to say:

"My ........... is larger than yours" (field dotted line with anything).

You might fill it with anything for women, but My nose, my ears, my butt, my shoes and many other things I have, not all of them, aren't larger than yours! :p :

[luvracin]

This thread sounds to me like what men used to say:

"My ........... is larger than yours" (field dotted line with anything).

Suddenly I get the following mental image......

- Kimi and Alonso, sitting at a bar having a quiet chat and a beer.
- Seabass enters the bar(Kramer style) waving his XXXX about yelling "See, mines bigger!!".
- Kimi and Alonso turn around to see what the commotion is, frown, look at each other and laugh, then get back to their beer and quiet discussion.

Point is : The only people that care are Champcar.

[truefan72]

It is such a dumb and futile argument that commenting on it just adds fuelt to its lunacy... but here goes anyway!

1. F1 cars have completely different specs and are designed for a completely different purpose than the champ cars, or IRL cars. They have shrunk down ther engines and modified the cars to limit the speed, don't run turbocharged engines and all in all are quite a bit different than the champ car.

2. It is trully comparing apples to oranges. Stock cars run continuosly for 3-4 hours at an average speed of over 170mph and on sperspeedways without restrictor plates would easily run over 220mph. IRL's run at 225-231 mph on ovals and are probably faster than champcars, LeMans series sportscars are probably even faster than that. Does that mean that one is better than the other due to that fact..resoundly no

Each series has their own motivations and specs designed to maximize their particular value. Today's F1 cars don't even compare to the one ran just 5 years a go when V10 where in place, or 10-15 years ago when turbo's where producing staggering horsepower.

The point is, it is completely meaningless to rationalize the course records as some sort of sign that one series is better than the other. Not to mention that each F1 team builds thier cars from scratch whilke cham cars teams basically get "pre-fabricated " cars with ready made chasis, engines and parts with few originalites seperating the team.

Also, don't these cars run some sort of a boost device to give them even more power for periodic times during the race?

[call_me_andrew]

Also, don't these cars run some sort of a boost device to give them even more power for periodic times during the race?

That still doesn't make much of a difference. Cosworth intergrated the system on their F1 engines last year and lobbied to make it mandatory.

Even with the turbochargers, the Champ Car's engine has so many boost and rpm limits that it makes roughly the same horsepower as an F1 engine (725hp). The Power to Pass button brings the power up to 800hp, but I'm not sure if they would use it during a test.

The IndyCars are not faster. The old spec Champ Cars could reach a top speed of 250 on an oval. And the IndyCars only produce 650hp from a 3L V8 restricted to 10,300rpm (naturally aspirated).

It's not about what series is better. It's about power per dollar. It's about making speed into something tangible.


Where's Minardi when you really need them? :p :

They were 10th fastest. 1:07.251

[rlenis]

It's not about what series is better. It's about power per dollar. It's about making speed into something tangible.


you got the idea dude. This is what is all about.

[Ari]

This thread sounds to me like what men used to say:

"My ........... is larger than yours" (field dotted line with anything).

so what about my credit card debt! :(

[janneppi]

It's not about what series is better. It's about power per dollar. It's about making speed into something tangible.

Says the man from the cheapo series. :p :

[call_me_andrew]

Says the man from the cheapo series. :p :

When did I become the man from the cheapo series?

[janneppi]

The moment you had the silly thought of comparing two completely different series using only costs and two incomparable lap times as factors.

[call_me_andrew]

I didn't start the thread. I only continued it. It's all in Billy Joel.

I'm not comparing the series; I'm only comparing the specifications. I never delivered the opinion that one was good or bad; I just stated facts and reason.

I didn't realize that comparing speed between two differently constructed racecars on the same configuration of track was in some way out of touch with F1’s basic principals. You have my profound apologies.

[rlenis]

why are some people so touchy, Jesus man. It is absolutely true that for the buck the Champ car is more efficient.

[ChrisS]

It's not about what series is better. It's about power per dollar. It's about making speed into something tangible.


Its not as simple as power per dollar, if it was then we should expect a champcar team with an F1 budget to have a car that travels near the speed of light.

[Ari]

It's not about what series is better. It's about power per dollar. It's about making speed into something tangible.

Really?

If that's the case then why has F1 been setting regulations to keep the cars at their current speed for about the last 10 years.

Mid 90's the days of 'open technology' ceased in F1 and instead of going faster it became all about getting speed and laptimes out of the regulations available.

So no, it's not directly about bang for buck... that stopped about 10 years ago. It's about creating an advantage in a managed environment.

[rlenis]

Its not as simple as power per dollar, if it was then we should expect a champcar team with an F1 budget to have a car that travels near the speed of light.

yeah probably but the problem is here on earth we do not have racing circuits to accommodate that kind of speed. may be in another planet?

[AJP]

let's take Fernando Alonso
(Current World Champion) to the Laguna Seca with his McLaren.
Give him a chance to learn the circuit, set the car up properly and then push his car to the limit.
I'm sure he will then smash the lap record.
then you can compare the two cars evenly.
Zontas run is no comparison to what Bourdais has just done...sorry

[MS_mayur]

The point is that it does matter to F1 for it wants to be the fastest series in the world. At least, it matters to Max Mosley. I m sorry I am unable to find the quote, but I clearly remember Mosley saying something along the lines of - F1 needs to be seen as the fastest series and for that reason they cannot afford to cut aerodynamic forces drastically.

Not that I believe that the Champ cars are now faster. With a proper setup and the best car, the 'super record' should be beaten by an F1 car.

What I want to say is that F1 is prepared to put racing on the back seat so that it can be the fastest series out there. My primary interest in F1 is to watch some good racing but since that is not happening anyway, it does matter to me that F1 remains faster than ChampCar

[rickos]

An F1 driver would hardly get out of bed for $5,000 letalone push an incapable car to its limits. ;)

Modesty...NOT. Arrogance² and more.

:s mokin:

[Ari]

Modesty...NOT. Arrogance² and more.

:s mokin:

df

[janneppi]

I didn't start the thread. I only continued it. It's all in Billy Joel.

I'm not comparing the series; I'm only comparing the specifications. I never delivered the opinion that one was good or bad; I just stated facts and reason.

I didn't realize that comparing speed between two differently constructed racecars on the same configuration of track was in some way out of touch with F1’s basic principals. You have my profound apologies.
Your apology is accepted.
My biggest gripe for comparing these times isn't specs of the cars but the realities of how they were driven.

One is was after a full day of testing, there were +20 cars putting rubber on the track, drivers getting the feel for grip levels, braking points, driving lines. Add to that the challenge of getting under F1 lap time with a possible reward in mind.

The other was couple of laps(max) in a dirty track, in a demo spec car with who knows what aero, engine, tyre configuration or fuel loads. Minimum effort to sort out the finer points of the track, with the sole intention of giving spectators something to look at.

Hardly the same thing, or do you disagree?

[cosmicpanda]

why are some people so touchy, Jesus man. It is absolutely true that for the buck the Champ car is more efficient.

I've never watched a champ car race in my life, but this is true.

The numbers say that the champ car was faster than the F1 car, and that's good enough for me.

What I'd like to see now is the F1 guys have a proper shot at setting a good time. :p :

[call_me_andrew]

Your apology is accepted.
My biggest gripe for comparing these times isn't specs of the cars but the realities of how they were driven.

One is was after a full day of testing, there were +20 cars putting rubber on the track, drivers getting the feel for grip levels, braking points, driving lines. Add to that the challenge of getting under F1 lap time with a possible reward in mind.

The other was couple of laps(max) in a dirty track, in a demo spec car with who knows what aero, engine, tyre configuration or fuel loads. Minimum effort to sort out the finer points of the track, with the sole intention of giving spectators something to look at.

Hardly the same thing, or do you disagree?

Well I've managed to find some backstory to go with Toyota's effort.

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2006/08/19/toyota_sets_new_lap_record_at_laguna_seca_demo/

Aparently Zonta had several sessions on the track with the car. And since there were vintage car races going on before he set the record, it's safe to assume the track was clean. There'd be no reason to run a lot of fuel in either car. Given the tire war, I'd expect worn F1 tires to still have more grip than fresh Champ Car tires. I think this was a fair fight.

[janneppi]

If my memory serves me right, they did 30 minutes preparations on friday, two and a half laps on saturday until the car broke down, i think they managed more laps on sunday, but weren't going to do more than six.
You might call it fair figth, i wont. And still, Zonta himself said he wasn't going as fast as he could, but played it safe.