Ditch the blue flags

[christophulus]

Finally, a sensible suggestion:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87186


"Drivers are paid to overtake, whether they are back markers or at the front," said Fernandes back in May. "I think it would be good for the sport to get rid of blue flags. In the days of Ken Tyrrell, he would never let any car pass.
"If it's really hard for a world champion to get past a backmarker then I think it's a sad day for racing. I think racing is all about getting past people and overtaking and adding a little bit of 'je ne sais quoi'.


As long as the driver being lapped is sensible, i.e. doesn't try to block the leaders, I think it's a great idea. Having to jump out the way as soon as the other car gets within three seconds is daft.

[Tazio]

My only complaint about it is that it might seriously and negatively affect a good fight at the front. An incompetent pilot could cause an avoidable accident. It would spice things up a little. I’m afraid it will lead to allegiances of back markers and championship contenders.
I like the system that is in place. JMO

[gloomyDAY]

Ha! We can throw this idea in the Never Going to Happen pile.

Personally, I think it's sensible. Unfortunately, all the top F1 execs will throw their toys out of the pram.

[Mark]

It's a daft idea. We want to see drivers racing for position and not to stop themselves being lapped.

[Daika]

Stupid idea. If you are being lapped move over. Let see how they feel going when Alonso, Webber,Hamilton and Vettel lose the championship because Schumacher refuse to back off. We all know Schumacher rather crash then to be overtaken. Idiots who come up with this crap.

[Sonic]

I'm gonna guess there's gonna be an age divide here. Those who have grown up with the blue flag rules as they exsist currently will probably say its madness to expect the leaders to race the back markers and visa versa.

Persoanally I think there should be some more skill involved in this part of racing. I've voiced the opinion before that each track should have a "lapping point" - the pit straight seems logical to me - whereupon a driver shown a blue must let the leaders past before the end of that straight. However if they get caught at a different point of the track they are under no obligation to let the pack past.

In my mind that's the best of both worlds. No ones gonna get blocked for long and if the leader can put a mega move earlier in the lap they can gain themselves a significant advantage.

[Daika]

Race for positions, anything else is suicide for Formula 1. Do we really want a Lotus fighting with Alonso 7 times in a race and knock him off in the eight attempt? While lonso got everything to lose and Lotus nothing because the are last?

[inimitablestoo]

Perhaps we should adopt the American oval convention - the blue flag (with a yellow stripe for some reason in the US) is only a warning when you're being lapped the first time, but when you're already a lap down or more you should move out of the way.

That said, there has to be some point at which a car should move over to prevent team tactics - such as Felipe Massa (for example) going the best part of a lap down and slowing up Mark Webber (for example) to allow Fernando Alonso (for example) a chance to pass him. (Hmm, now why did those particular names spring to mind... ;) )

Alternatively, it surely isn't beyond the wit of the smaller teams to send somebody out to nick all the blue flags beforehand... ;)

[steveaki13]

Persoanally I think there should be some more skill involved in this part of racing. I've voiced the opinion before that each track should have a "lapping point" - the pit straight seems logical to me - whereupon a driver shown a blue must let the leaders past before the end of that straight. However if they get caught at a different point of the track they are under no obligation to let the pack past.



I quite like this Idea.

As for the arguement about Lotus's racing Ferrari's. :rolleyes:

I don't think a driver 2 laps down will be stupid enough to actually think "Right he's not coming past".

I think these backmarkers would still yield when the leader got close, as they have little to gain by holding up a leader and risking crashing. (In the event a Lotus blocks the leader to keep a Virgin at bay the stewards could still punish him for unfair tactics).
It would just mean that if they are battling the Virgin coming up to an overtaking place they don't have to waste the overtaking chance by losing 5 seconds by coming to a stop as soon as a flag is waved.

Look at the early 90's we had blue flags but they weren't as urgent. We often saw battling drivers wait for a while to let leaders past. It may actually be in their interest to be lapped after a while. In order to follow the leader past the car they are racing.
Also I can't recall many crashes or races completley ruined by backmarkers not yielding to leaders.
(I am sure someone will tell me asap).

I know Verstappen hit Montoya in 2001, but that wasn't really due to disabaying blue flags.

[jens]

I'm gonna guess there's gonna be an age divide here. Those who have grown up with the blue flag rules as they exsist currently will probably say its madness to expect the leaders to race the back markers and visa versa.


We have had a similar discussion on this forums in the past too. The difference with the "old days" is that passing was easier then. I'm afraid nowadays giving too much freedom to backmarkers could end up in a roadblock. One of the best examples that comes to my mind is the 1993 Portugese Grand Prix, when Lehto was blocking Schumacher for 10+ laps and thus enabled Prost to have a look at passing Schumi on numerous occasions. I really don't want to see leaders getting held up so blatantly and thus costing their races.

Generally Branson simply wants more exposure (more TV-time for his cars, when they are holding up leaders) and also more excitement from his point of view without caring, how would the front-runners feel. But there is one aspect I tend to agree with him - the application of blue flags and the need to pull over immediately, while having a 3-second advantage, is too blatant. We have seen this season, how cars of the new teams pull to the side of the road to let others through... and that is a bit weird. At Barcelona one situation seemed even a bit dangerous, when di Grassi (?) almost stopped by the side of the road to let two cars simultaneously past.

So a proper compromise needs to be found. I think a decent solution would be that the backmarker is driving its own race and lifts the throttle slightly only when the lapping car is directly behind him. As much as I have seen, the more experienced Lotus drivers have mostly been doing it this season, so perhaps the rookies of di Grassi, Senna, Chandhok have simply been too cautious.

[BDunnell]

We have seen this season, how cars of the new teams pull to the side of the road to let others through... and that is a bit weird. At Barcelona one situation seemed even a bit dangerous, when di Grassi (?) almost stopped by the side of the road to let two cars simultaneously past.

You see this in all forms of motor racing now, and you never used to. The backmarkers, no doubt mindful of the opprobrium heaped upon perennial blockers (or even accidental ones) in the past, virtually stop, as you say. It strikes me as excessive, for passing traffic, even traffic that isn't especially well-behaved, is part of motor racing. However, also excessive would be any change in the rules.

[Daika]

I quite like this Idea.

As for the arguement about Lotus's racing Ferrari's. :rolleyes:

I don't think a driver 2 laps down will be stupid enough to actually think "Right he's not coming past".

I think these backmarkers would still yield when the leader got close, as they have little to gain by holding up a leader and risking crashing. (In the event a Lotus blocks the leader to keep a Virgin at bay the stewards could still punish him for unfair tactics).


Punish by stewards on what ground? if it is legal to race as a backmarker against the top. There is no middle ground. A backmarker should move aside when the top is lapping them. We are always talking about a situation when the backmarker is a lap behind, how are you gonna legistrate that?

[BDunnell]

Punish by stewards on what ground? if it is legal to race as a backmarker against the top. There is no middle ground. A backmarker should move aside when the top is lapping them.

Which backmarkers always do now, far better than they did 20 or so years ago, and — as I said — almost too readily, in my opinion.

[Daika]

Which backmarkers always do now, far better than they did 20 or so years ago, and — as I said — almost too readily, in my opinion.

And they should!! they are being lapped. They should bring the 107% rule back. Would be something if the backmarker hesitate to give way to Alonso, Hamilton or whoever drives in front.

[BDunnell]

And they should!! they are being lapped. They should bring the 107% rule back. Would be something if the backmarker hesitate to give way to Alonso, Hamilton or whoever drives in front.

What I'm getting at is that backmarkers in all sorts of formulae, including F1, seem to find it harder and harder to move over in such a way as avoids the faintly absurd spectacle of them nearly coming to a complete halt.

[Daika]

What I'm getting at is that backmarkers in all sorts of formulae, including F1, seem to find it harder and harder to move over in such a way as avoids the faintly absurd spectacle of them nearly coming to a complete halt.

In all honesty, those who watch formula 1 do they really care about backmarkers? We (or i) just want them not to interfere with the (outcome) race. The thought that they are allowed to put up a fight when they are behind makes me not happy.

[BDunnell]

The thought that they are allowed to put up a fight when they are behind makes me not happy.

I don't want to see that either.

[CNR]

keep the blue flag and add that no car other then the cars that are a lap ahead can pass when a car may slow down to let a car pass

or go with keep left unless overtaking on the main straight

[truefan72]

Stupid idea. If you are being lapped move over. Let see how they feel going when Alonso, Webber,Hamilton and Vettel lose the championship because Schumacher refuse to back off. We all know Schumacher rather crash then to be overtaken. Idiots who come up with this crap.

:up:

[Easy Drifter]

As a former driver keep the Blue Flags. They do need to be used properly and I do not totally agree with the current rules, but it all to easy to have someone catch up to you when you are in your own race with someone.
Radios are not a 100% reliable.

[Sleeper]

I dont mind the idea of getting rid of blue flags, Mansell passing Senna for the lead in Hungry in 89 (I think) only happened because Senna got caught up behind a lapped car, yet its considered a classic moment.

Getting past the Virgins, HRT's and Lotus's wont be a problem anywhere but Monaco and Singapore, it only really starts being difficult towards the end of races when the leaders start catching the tailing Renaults, Saubers, Williams, Mercedes, Torro Rosso's and Force India's.

[Ari]

Absurd! Stupid Idea!

At a time when cars aero will not let you past without a battle we need the blue flags now more than ever before.

And, ultimately, as a backmarker you get to see 3 blue flags before you are penalised anyway so where's the problem.

As far as I'm concerned if you're not on the leading lap then get the f*** out of the way! Simple as that.

To even consider getting rid of the blues at present is loony bin stuff.

[Ari]

I'm gonna guess there's gonna be an age divide here. Those who have grown up with the blue flag rules as they exsist currently will probably say its madness to expect the leaders to race the back markers and visa versa.

Persoanally I think there should be some more skill involved in this part of racing. I've voiced the opinion before that each track should have a "lapping point" - the pit straight seems logical to me - whereupon a driver shown a blue must let the leaders past before the end of that straight. However if they get caught at a different point of the track they are under no obligation to let the pack past.

In my mind that's the best of both worlds. No ones gonna get blocked for long and if the leader can put a mega move earlier in the lap they can gain themselves a significant advantage.

Great idea. But what happens when the current WDC in a Ferrari is taken out by a novice backmarker in a Virgin trying to make a name for themselves by holding up the race leader?

I do not want to see the fastest guy in the fastest car battling with a backmarker who doesn't know any better. It's like being beaten in poker when a chick who has no idea picks up a flush on the river without knowing. It just pisses you off as they had no right to still be in the hand.

[Ari]

Who needs a blue flag when you've got Mark Webber coming through the field? :eek:

Actually, it was Hamilton trying to come through.... right idea, bad choice of wording! :p

[call_me_andrew]

Perhaps we should adopt the American oval convention - the blue flag (with a yellow stripe for some reason in the US) is only a warning when you're being lapped the first time, but when you're already a lap down or more you should move out of the way.

1. In oval racing, the blue flag is only waved at the starter's stand. Since the starter is 20-30 feet over the driver's heads, a solid blue flag can lost against a blue sky. The yellow stripe keeps it visible. If you read my blog regularly, you would know this by now. :)

2. That seems reasonable enough.

[keysersoze]

As far as I'm concerned if you're not on the leading lap then get the f*** out of the way! Simple as that.

So are you saying that if an HRT, Lotus or Virgin is being lapped for the first time they have every right, indeed, mandate, to fight like hell to KEEP from getting lapped. Somehow I don't think you are.

IMO, if a SC period begins and a tail-ender is one nano-second ahead of P1, the tail-ender gets all that track position back. Knowing that, I say let them dice. However, if a driver is being lapped, once the lead driver gets by the tail-ender to put him ONE lap down, the lapped driver must make things a bit easier for the others. After all, he probably won't be able to get back on the lead lap.

if a driver is being lapped for a second or third time, they must give way.

[maximilian]

There are a lot of things I would rather see abolished first, such as the mandatory tire compound use & pitstop...

[Ari]

So are you saying that if an HRT, Lotus or Virgin is being lapped for the first time they have every right, indeed, mandate, to fight like hell to KEEP from getting lapped. Somehow I don't think you are.

IMO, if a SC period begins and a tail-ender is one nano-second ahead of P1, the tail-ender gets all that track position back. Knowing that, I say let them dice. However, if a driver is being lapped, once the lead driver gets by the tail-ender to put him ONE lap down, the lapped driver must make things a bit easier for the others. After all, he probably won't be able to get back on the lead lap.

if a driver is being lapped for a second or third time, they must give way.

I wasn't implying leading lap as a science but just a general term.

I agree if you're being lapped you need to move over, particularly if you're in a HRT or something.

If you're Lewis in a Macca and you're down the order due to a bad pit stop or something or going off and coming back with a flat etc then I think if you can go faster and stop yourself being lapped then go for it. But, in that instance, it does become a bit messy re the rules.

[Garry Walker]

What an idiotic idea, there is really nothing else to say.

It is shocking to see that there is some support for such an idea, it speaks volumes about the intelligence of some "racing" fans.

[F1boat]

The worst idea ever. I prefer Virgin to leave than top teams to be screwed because Branson is getting bored.

[ShiftingGears]

Could you imagine Monaco or Hungaroring without blue flags? I think its more acceptible if passing was considerably easy, but it isn't, and they'd ruin many peoples races that they really have no business ruining.

[ArrowsFA1]

My only complaint about it is that it might seriously and negatively affect a good fight at the front.
Possibly, but what about negatively affecting a good fight towards the back? Positions all the way down the field are important, particularly when it comes to FOM payments at the end of the season, and those payments are vital to the smaller teams.

I have thought for a long time that the blue flag rule needs to be looked at. I do quite like the fact that in the likes of NASCAR those at the tail of the lead lap fight to maintain position ahead of the leader. Ok, I know it's heresy to make any kind of comparison between F1 and stock cars but F1 should be looking at other forms of motorsport to see what works and what doesn't.

At the moment in F1 I think the blue flags penalise those being lapped far too much, and make life too easy for the quicker cars. That said this all comes back to how difficult it is to pass, even if you are seconds a lap quicker. That needs to be addressed first, and it is a major failure of the sport that it hasn't been yet.

[Mark]

At the moment in F1 I think the blue flags penalise those being lapped far too much, and make life too easy for the quicker cars. That said this all comes back to how difficult it is to pass, even if you are seconds a lap quicker. That needs to be addressed first, and it is a major failure of the sport that it hasn't been yet.

But to me F1 is all about being the best, and it's only right that the leading cars have right of way over those who are battling for the minor positions.

I know sometimes they don't wish to give way if they are in their own battles, but presumably it's bad form to overtake someone because they've got out of the way for the leading cars?

[ArrowsFA1]

But to me F1 is all about being the best, and it's only right that the leading cars have right of way over those who are battling for the minor positions.
But if the leading cars are the best surely they can, or should be able to, find a way through without being given the equivalent of the fast lane all to themselves?

The quicker cars may have qualified at the front, but they're still in a race racing the whole field. The blue flag is a bit like (and I know this is stretching it a bit :) ) saying 'you're not quick enough to be racing and you should pull into the pits out of the way'.

Actually, that's a load of rubbish :p : because lapped cars resume their race once the leaders have gone through, but still...I do think every place on the track should be fought for without hinderance from officialdom. If that means the leader gets held up so be it.

[Retro Formula 1]

"Felipe Baby. Alonso - is - faster - than - you. (And do you mind dropping back half a lap so you can block the leader and allow Fred to catch up and pass him)"

[Big Ben]

In an ideal world perhaps it would be a good idea but in the real world we would have backmarkers interfering with the leaders and that would mean that a team might actually put a car behind just to hold back the opposition... or alliances with the between teams :rolleyes:

plus.. this site would explode if FM has to get out of FA's way twice in the same race

i think all they want is more tv exposure

[AndyL]

As for the arguement about Lotus's racing Ferrari's. :rolleyes:

I don't think a driver 2 laps down will be stupid enough to actually think "Right he's not coming past".

Do you think that would still be the case if the driver two laps down is in a Torro Rosso, and the Ferrari trying to lap him is being pursued by a Red Bull in 2nd place?

[maxter]

"Felipe Baby. Alonso - is - faster - than - you. (And do you mind dropping back half a lap so you can block the leader and allow Fred to catch up and pass him)"
This.

[V12]

About bloody time someone in the sport said what many fans have been saying for years. Lapping backmarkers used to be a skill that some drivers could do better than others. I'm sure it still is but to a vastly reduced effect. As long as the blocking rule which applies to cars racing for position is applied here too, let the faster cars find a way around. If you're quick enough to be a whole lap (or more) ahead of a car before the end of the race, you're quick enough to get around them.

In reality the smart backmarker drivers will realise that madly blocking a faster car costs them time as well, when the alternative is to tuck in behind and maybe have the faster car drag them along for a few corners. And if any new Grouillards emerge it'll all just add to the fun won't it?

Of course what will happen is the big teams will throw this out, and they'll focus there energies on making the racing more "exciting" in more appropriate ways, like computer controlled movable-rear-wings-for-the-driver-behind-only, mandatory pit stops, push to pass buttons, reverse grids, <insert latest retard idea from the teams/Bernie/FIA here>

EDIT: I'm not saying the blue flags should be literally gotten rid of, they should still be there for their original purpose - i.e. to inform the driver being lapped that there is someone coming up behind him, just the rule that if you pass through three of them you get a penalty needs to go.

[Retro Formula 1]

So, are we happy to see "lesser" teams being supplied with engines etc in return for a little assistance?

Christ on a bike, we can't even police team orders within a team when its freaking obvious, let alone Brawn running down the pits, waving his arms and screaming at Vijay that "the - Octopus - has - a - Nipple - in - Venezuela.... the - Octopus - has - a - Nipple - in - Venezuela... Do you understand!!!"

[Daika]

In reality the smart backmarker drivers will realise that madly blocking a faster car costs them time as well, when the alternative is to tuck in behind and maybe have the faster car drag them along for a few corners. And if any new Grouillards emerge it'll all just add to the fun won't it?



And Schumacher will say, i'm allowed to race so F... you all. Schumacher is a backmarker nowadays. Good luck telling him he should move over when the rules say there is no blue flag. What about a Mclaren or Ferrari? Massa was a backmarker at the last race. Look at the damage he can cause if there wasn't a blue flag. He would held off the Mclaren/red bull for forever even when 1 lap down.

[V12]

And Schumacher will say, i'm allowed to race so F... you all. Schumacher is a backmarker nowadays. Good luck telling him he should move over when the rules say there is no blue flag. What about a Mclaren or Ferrari? Massa was a backmarker at the last race. Look at the damage he can cause if there wasn't a blue flag. He would held off the Mclaren/red bull for forever even when 1 lap down.

Actions like Schumacher in Hungary need to be stamped down on, but that's a whole separate issue, weaving and deliberate blocking should be penalised whether it is a lapped car or battling for position. But the backmarkers shouldn't be required to jump out of the way off the racing line just to avoid a penalty, either.

[Daika]

Actions like Schumacher in Hungary need to be stamped down on, but that's a whole separate issue, weaving and deliberate blocking should be penalised whether it is a lapped car or battling for position. But the backmarkers shouldn't be required to jump out of the way off the racing line just to avoid a penalty, either.

Yes they should. I didn't pay to watch backmarkers. I don't care that they do a full stop to let the front drivers past. Who cares what the backmarkers do as long as they don't interfere with the race. Really, who care so much that we need to change the rules to accomodate them? Backmarkers are a lap behind or more. Let them race even when they are a lap behind against the top is suicide for formula 1.

[ArrowsFA1]

Yes they should. I didn't pay to watch backmarkers. I don't care that they do a full stop to let the front drivers past. Who cares what the backmarkers do as long as they don't interfere with the race.
Backmarkers are as much a part of the race as the leaders IMHO and to them a battle for 12th place might be as important as a win to their team, and yet they are expected to stop racing for that position to give the leaders a clear road :dozey:

[Daika]

Backmarkers are as much a part of the race as the leaders IMHO and to them a battle for 12th place might be as important as a win to their team, and yet they are expected to stop racing for that position to give the leaders a clear road :dozey:

YES, they are being lapped. Do you think the majority of those watching Formula 1 would look up kindly to that driver/team in 12th place and being overtaken/lapped by the leader who is in battle for place 1,2 or 3 is held up by a insignificant (in the championship) driver driving for place 12th or 13th (if they are being lapped place 15th and beyond is more likely).

They are making up the numbers on the grid, they aren't fighting for the championship. That is with all the respect insignificant compare to the top 5 teams/drivers

[Mark]

Backmarkers are as much a part of the race as the leaders IMHO and to them a battle for 12th place might be as important as a win to their team, and yet they are expected to stop racing for that position to give the leaders a clear road :dozey:

If they don't want to be giving way to the leaders, they should make their cars faster!

[ArrowsFA1]

YES, they are being lapped. Do you think the majority of those watching Formula 1 would look up kindly to that driver/team in 12th place and being overtaken/lapped by the leader who is in battle for place 1,2 or 3 is held up by a insignificant (in the championship) driver driving for place 12th or 13th (if they are being lapped place 15th and beyond is more likely).
As I said the lower placings are not insignificant to those fighting for them. If we decide that only the top 3,5,10 or whatever are important then maybe there should be smaller grids.

If they don't want to be giving way to the leaders, they should make their cars faster!
Absolutely :up:

[Easy Drifter]

If you do away with the blue flag in F1 do you get rid of it in other races? What about LMS and ALMS and other races with different classes?
I do think the current rule can be tweaked but blue flags are needed.
Doing away with them is about as stupid as the Izod Trophy. And if you don't know what I am talking about go look at the Indy Car Forum.

[Daika]

Backmarkers are never, never allowed to hold up/race against the top, those who are fighting for the win. I hope we can agree on that otherwise this is insane.

[ArrowsFA1]

Doing away with them is about as stupid as the Izod Trophy.
Ooooooo, that trophy is very stupid :p

I don't think you can do away with blue flags entirely, but the FIA could certainly look at how they are used. Obviously it's not in the interests of the leader to be held up, nor is it in the interests of the backmarker to harm their own race.

For those that know the sport better than I do, does racing the leaders to stay on the lead lap work well in NASCAR? It seems to from where I'm watching, probably because it's an element that's just accepted as part of the race.

[motetarip]

It can be quite satisfying watching someone all over the car in front trying to get past (like Mansell on Senna at Monaco years back, although a race for position) but it would be total chaos when 2 or more leading cars arrived behind a slow backmarker with a WDC at stake. If the speed differential across the field wasn't so vast it just might be viable, it would certainly spice things up :)

[steveaki13]

I think we need to keep blue flags so that backmarkers need to clear the way, but I am not sure it needs to be so urgent. 2 or 3 flags.

Maybe 5 flags.

I just feel that while the Leaders are most important, the tailenders should be able a bit more room to try a pass if needed.

If they have been behind a car for 10 laps and finally line him up and are about to pass, then suddenly have to pull over right then and there, I just think we could have the best of both.

Still have Blue flags and leaders wont be blocked for laps on end, but instead will only be impeded slightly in this rare circumstance that there is a good scrap ahead, but it also means the backmarkers don't need to lose loads of time.

Another example at Hungary around the mid section, a backmarker could wait an extra few corners and blend off on the straight and save him ruining his tyres and losing 10 seconds and risking going off through dirty tyres.

This is only my Opinion, I know it won't happen and most may not want it to happen, but its my ideal.

[Garry Walker]

About bloody time someone in the sport said what many fans have been saying for years. Only those fans who have been blessed with an IQ below 40.


If you're quick enough to be a whole lap (or more) ahead of a car before the end of the race, you're quick enough to get around them.Great piece of logic, by someone who has not seen many races where guy are 2 seconds faster than the guy in front, but the track offers no way of overtaking. If such an idiotic proposal really was put into effect in F1, I would never again follow any F1 race.



In reality the smart backmarker drivers will realise that madly blocking a faster car costs them time as well, For most of them the time irrelevant, but what they would want is to get TV time by giving all the leaders a really hard time knowing those guys cant take any stupid risks. That will get the publicity that a 15th place instead of a 16th place will never get them. So all the backmarkers would make passing them as hard as possible.



when the alternative is to tuck in behind and maybe have the faster car drag them along for a few corners. What? Did I read this right? Do you know nothing about aerodynamics? Have you never heard about drivers complaining about how hard it is to drive just behind someone and how that will actually make you lose time.
Christ, I never thought on an f1 forum someone would come up with the concept of "dragging another car on for a couple of corners", but I was surprised.

FFS, they let everyone use the net these days.



just the rule that if you pass through three of them you get a penalty needs to go.That rule should actually be enforced with more vigour and instead of just giving a penalty to the drivers holding up leaders, they those breaking the rules should be forced to watch Oprah for 2 hours, every day.



but in the real world we would have backmarkers interfering with the leaders and that would mean that a team might actually put a car behind just to hold back the opposition... or alliances with the between teams :rolleyes:


Indeed. You would easily have a situation where one leader is let through by, lets say HRT, quickly by just slightly going wide the moment the leader comes, but the guy in the 2nd place would be given a hell of a fight and would lose 8-9 seconds within 2 laps. Of course, that HRT is getting engines from the team that the first placed driver races for would be a coincidence (Team was chosen at random)



Possibly, but what about negatively affecting a good fight towards the back?Who cares? No one asked them to be so slow, so they should bend over at once when a leader comes to lap them.
If HRT, Virgin and Lotus would not be on the grid in the next race, I would be more happy than sad. They add nothing of interest to me.



At the moment in F1 I think the blue flags penalise those being lapped far too much, and make life too easy for the quicker cars.Those racing for wins should not be in any way harmed by having to pass idiot backmarkers.



That said this all comes back to how difficult it is to pass, even if you are seconds a lap quicker. That needs to be addressed first, and it is a major failure of the sport that it hasn't been yet. Lets be serious here - F1 will never be about overtaking, it simply is not that kind of a series. You want overtaking, watch nascar and 1000 meaningless passes every race, I`d rather have a few, but memorable ones in F1.



Backmarkers are as much a part of the race as the leaders IMHO and to them a battle for 12th place might be as important as a win to their team, and yet they are expected to stop racing for that position to give the leaders a clear road :dozey:

I dont care even slightly who takes the 16th place, that is completely irrelevant to me. They are racing for wins and those who are totally incompetent, should not play any part in deciding the winner.
As for stopping racing, they should move over the moment the leader comes close, but you then again, I should point out that knowing how to lose as little time as possible when letting someone pass you, is also a skill.


Yes they should. I didn't pay to watch backmarkers. I don't care that they do a full stop to let the front drivers past. Who cares what the backmarkers do as long as they don't interfere with the race. Really, who care so much that we need to change the rules to accomodate them? Backmarkers are a lap behind or more. Let them race even when they are a lap behind against the top is suicide for formula 1.

Indeed. I cannot believe people are really wanting to have leaders have to race with the failures when they are getting lapped, its crazy. Insane.

[wedge]

Overall its been fine as it is. We've seen backmarkers setting up overtakes eg. Alonso being compromised in Canada.

And likewise, we've seen the tailenders battles being compromised by the blue flags.

Fernandes has been a firm advocate but I'm sure he realises that Andrea De Cesaris style tactics will be bad PR for the Lotus brand.

I think its more to do with the bully tactics and the have and have nots (ie. speed).


What? Did I read this right? Do you know nothing about aerodynamics? Have you never heard about drivers complaining about how hard it is to drive just behind someone and how that will actually make you lose time.

Some tracks/races will have more overtaking than most. Some tracks you'd hardly get any overtaking.

I'm not too fussed regarding the entertainment factor, its how the team/drivers cope which I'm more concerned whether pit strategy or overtake.


Stupid idea. If you are being lapped move over. Let see how they feel going when Alonso, Webber,Hamilton and Vettel lose the championship because Schumacher refuse to back off. We all know Schumacher rather crash then to be overtaken. Idiots who come up with this crap.

He's been very reasonable with being lapped. Name at least one moment when he was not.

[Daika]

He's been very reasonable with being lapped. Name at least one moment when he was not.

Yes, because he has to move over. The argument here is to get rid of the blue flag so that the front drivers have to make a effort to overtake backmarkers (i oppose this stupid thought). If it is within the rule to race then you can count on Schumacher to prevent whoever is trying to overtake him. The reason Schumacher being reasonable its because of the blue flag.

My point is: you race for positions. If not move aside when you are being lapped.

[Duchess]

Well for those of you that feel the backmarkers "add nothing to the race" for you, then surely you can just rewatch the 2005 US GP over and over again for the feel of that satisfying 1.5hrs of only your favourite and most worthy teams on the track. :)

Potentiality of tire issues aside, I like 24 cars on the track and I would like it to stay that way. If the 107% rule was applied to this season, it would only affect HRT and honestly, this year they don't need to be kicked when they're already down.

[ShiftingGears]

If they don't want to be giving way to the leaders, they should make their cars faster!

:up:

[Retro Formula 1]

I can't believe I'm saying it but I'm almost 100% in agreement with Gary Walker on this.

Yes, we need teams on the grid and yes they can improve and challenge the leaders through perseverance and excellence. I don't have a problem with teams like Lotus and Virgin trying to succeed as long as they get the feck out of the way of teams who are the leaders until they do.

If you're being lapped, get out of the way. Simples!

Where I disagree is the punishment. Oprah seems a little lenient. How about a double bill of Oprah and Jeremy Kyle?